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AI126
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Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sat Jun 24, 2017 11:47 pm

Title says it all. I know that especially on this forum, both the 757 and 764 are remarkably popular with many fans saying that neither can ever be "replaced". Why exactly are these planes so popular among fans? Never really understood it myself.
 
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American 767
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:17 am

Well first of all, the low seat mile cost for the 757 was a factor that made the US airlines order the type back in the 80s when it was all new, and for that reason it became very popular in the UK up to the point that the CAA (The British FAA) certified it to fly with UK operators. British Airways and Eastern were the first two launch customers, Northwest and Delta followed quickly. American, Continental and United were also among the major players even though these three carriers were late in joining the party.
The 767, launched by United, was popular at that time for two reasons: one is the fuel efficiency compared to its predecessors of the time, the DC-10 and the L-1011, and the other one was ETOPS certification. It became a very popular aircraft for TATL flights although its competitors the A310 and the new new A330 were. But the 767 was the first twin jet to be certified by the FAA for TATL crossings. Another feature that made them both popular was the cockpit commonality between the two siblings: the airlines could train pilots to fly both types with only one FAA type rating. Pilots could be qualified to fly either and be trained on both. This flexibility helped the airlines a lot in aircraft and crew scheduling. That was why a lot of airlines ended up flying both types. The 767 was Boeing's answer to the then new A310.
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Austin787
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:43 am

The 767 opened up many new TATL routes. Air New Zealand even called the 767 the "Dreamliner" of its time: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11829230
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:50 am

AI126 wrote:
Title says it all. I know that especially on this forum, both the 757 and 764 are remarkably popular with many fans saying that neither can ever be "replaced". Why exactly are these planes so popular among fans? Never really understood it myself.

It really comes down to versatility. The 757 could do everything. It did (does) everything from ATL-BHM (135mi) to EWR-ARN (3,900mi). It also has great runway performance so it can fly places people love to go (which creates fond memories of the aircraft) like LIH, EGE, JAC, BOG etc. Lots of cool places.

As for the 764, because it was the last 767 passenger model produced and was in production into the 2000's it got all the best tech even though it was an "older" design. This resulted in an aircraft with excellent operating economics and versatility for the few airlines that stuck with it instead of going 772 or 332 or holding out for the 788 (the original 788 timetable was very agressive to say the least).
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:57 am

Don't get why the 757 has so many fans on A.net. It is the worst selling jetliner family ever built by Boeing. It looks different to most modern jets so maybe that's it.

Geoff
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 8:20 am

Another 757 thread? This aircraft really needs its own forum here. :D
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:01 am

Austin787 wrote:
The 767 opened up many new TATL routes. Air New Zealand even called the 767 the "Dreamliner" of its time: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11829230


It pretty much was, it enabled an twin jet 200 seater cross the Pacific with only on stop required. The DC-8 had to hop its way from AKL-HNL.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:09 am

Geoff1947 wrote:
Don't get why the 757 has so many fans on A.net. It is the worst selling jetliner family ever built by Boeing. It looks different to most modern jets so maybe that's it.

Geoff


If you can call a model that sold over 1000 to be "worst selling." It's high performance is why it has so many fans.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 9:24 am

Entry to market timing, the unique (at the time) characteristics of both aircraft (seat mile cost, range, hot and high performance, cargo capacity, type rating simplification to note just a few primary reasons) and finally, the unprecedented (again at the time) cooperation from the regulators on ETOPS that enabled the routes and capabilities to be opened up rather quickly.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:37 am

I think it's also relative nostalgia. Meaning, there was a time 15 years ago when I hated the 757 because it was replacing the widebodies from the east to west coast in the US. Now, however, it seems like a treat.
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:49 am

I would disagree with that 757 and 767 are popular. They were popular in their time. In the moment some of their niches have not been replaced.
The 757 the biggest and/or longest ranged single aisle and the 767 the smallest dual aisle frame in use, apart from the still older A300/310.

As they two cover certain niches, newer frames do not cover, we hear all the talk about the MoM.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:39 am

Cockpit commonality.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:48 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
Don't get why the 757 has so many fans on A.net. It is the worst selling jetliner family ever built by Boeing. It looks different to most modern jets so maybe that's it.

Geoff


If you can call a model that sold over 1000 to be "worst selling." It's high performance is why it has so many fans.


So you think a narrow body selling a thousand is selling well !! Even sold less than the 767.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 12:10 pm

Not much experience on the 757, but for me the 767 is a pleasure to be a passenger on in the 2-3-2 in Y. That's why I hope against hope that the MoM will be that config.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:04 pm

The 757 allowed direct/non-stop service to smaller city pairs as well as to 'long-thin' routes were not enough volume of business for wide bodies at the time it came out. They have excellent performance at 'high/hot' airport locations. They make for good freighters too on certain routes and frequency needs. It wasn't until the late 1990's 737's or A320 series could do Transcon US or other longer routes, now some 737's and A320 series can even do TATL
The 767 was kinda a competitor/replacement for the DC-10 on many routes, cheaper on fuel use and mx as only 2 engines vs. 3, right sized for many routes.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:29 pm

Taking off in a 757 is unlike most any commercial aircraft. The sense (sound) of power and that steep climb are rightly revered by airliner enthusiasts!
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:36 pm

More likely in the case of the 757, it was an a/c ahead of its time. The A321 took a lot of sales from the a/c by removing the excess range and payload that most carriers did not need, the fact that those capabilities are now being put into the A321 (at least range) is why I say it was ahead of its time.
If Boeing had been able to maintain production similar to the 767 I'm certain there would be some form of major update taking place now, but they chose to save money and kill production, so we are where we are, A321 moving into full 757 territory and Boeing talking about the next best thing up from the 757.
Last edited by par13del on Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:36 pm

The 757 is only a success because of it's legendary fish carrying capability.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:39 pm

My great-grandfather was a mariner. He probably worked 50 ships in his career, but the one he could describe to me in great detail was the one that brought him (and my family) from Ireland to the United States. His first ship. For me, that's the 727. Alaska ran 727's in the 80's, and getting on one meant I was going somewhere. No aircraft now can match that for me, and I doubt any ever will. The 747 took me around the world, but it was the 727 that started and ended the trip.

The 757 opened up many, many city pairs. It does not matter that flying one feels like an over-crowded pair of 737's bolted together, there are many trips they made possible. That's worth nostalgia in it's own right. An otherwise unremarkable aircraft becomes pretty neat when it avoids a stopover somewhere, and if that means the TATL trip you remember so fondly was a 757, well, that's a pretty neat aircraft.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:45 pm

- I don't think people have said that to 764
- For 757, that's probably because of the possibility it can provide for people to imagine what kind of services it can provide and what kind of route it can cover with the amount of seat it have.
- And then pilots prefer high performance aircraft even if that might not be the most economical option
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 1:53 pm

Love the 757 . Recently flew on the Titan Airways and Jet2 ones and want to get more.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 2:13 pm

OA260 wrote:
Love the 757 . Recently flew on the Titan Airways and Jet2 ones and want to get more.


Very lucky to fly titan
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:08 pm

AI126 wrote:
Title says it all. I know that especially on this forum, both the 757 and 764 are remarkably popular with many fans saying that neither can ever be "replaced". Why exactly are these planes so popular among fans? Never really understood it myself.

It's not just 'fans', it's the operators. FX buying up 100+ 757s and rebuilding them as freighters. Amazon and others doing the same with 767s. UA and others putting new interiors and fuel inerting mods into 757s. Some of this of course happens because high time airframes are cheap, but it wouldn't happen at all if the planes weren't worth the investment.
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:26 pm

I think for me it is how both look and how they perform. The 757 is one of the best looking jets ever built, certainly a lot better looking than the 737 and the 767 aside from the nose looks somewhat like a scaled up 757. If you see them parked next to each other you can tell they are related. Another way they are related that I love is their performance. The 757 is a rocket to say the least, everyone knows this, but many don't know or don't realize that the 767 is close behind. I was on two 767s between YYZ and MCO last year and I could tell they were relatively light as that isn't a long flight for a 767 at all. And then the last time I was on a 757 on a DEN-LAX run and the thing was climbing noticeably steeper than any other plane around there.

Another thing is like is the upgradeability of the cockpit. The original cockpit has become very dated so there have been various releases of improvements such as 737/777 style screens, or the larger 787 style screens. There's also the 767-400 which more or less uses the 777s cockpit aside from the overhead panel. Had they approached engine manufacturues saying that they wanted a new engine for the 757 and had then made a new version of it instead of the 747-8, you can bet it would have used the 777's cockpit or similar.
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 3:57 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
The 757 the biggest and/or longest ranged single aisle and the 767 the smallest dual aisle frame in use, apart from the still older A300/310.


A310 and 767-200 are contemporaries.

A310 FF and EIS each lagging the 767 by ~7 month.
With its new super critical wing the A310 is a distinct subtype.
Boeing grew the 767 while Airbus next step was introducing FBW with the A320 followed by the A330.

back memory lane:
https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFA ... 202215.PDF
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 4:01 pm

Geoff1947 wrote:
Don't get why the 757 has so many fans on A.net. It is the worst selling jetliner family ever built by Boeing. It looks different to most modern jets so maybe that's it.

Geoff


Since when is flight attendant staffing a function of the airframe? Other than by regulation, staffing is a function of the airline.
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:14 pm

FlyHossD wrote:
Since when is flight attendant staffing a function of the airframe? Other than by regulation, staffing is a function of the airline.

Hoss, as far as I can see you are the only person who has mentioned FA staffing. Did you post in the wrong thread?
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:37 pm

Being the first twin engine plane to receive ETOPS certification was a big deal for the 767. The economics of flying a twin was a boon for the airlines. I remember when AA stopped flying the DC10 on DFW-CDG and replaced it with the 763 sometime around '88 or '89. I thought it was pretty scary to take a 2 engine plane across the Atlantic. Of course today, I think nothing of getting on a 77W across the Pacific. in this sense, the 767 was a pioneer.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:40 pm

Geoff1947 wrote:
Don't get why the 757 has so many fans on A.net. It is the worst selling jetliner family ever built by Boeing. It looks different to most modern jets so maybe that's it.

Geoff


and the ugliest :)
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 5:57 pm

Balerit wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
Don't get why the 757 has so many fans on A.net. It is the worst selling jetliner family ever built by Boeing. It looks different to most modern jets so maybe that's it.

Geoff


and the ugliest :)


Debatable.
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:19 pm

Balerit wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
Don't get why the 757 has so many fans on A.net. It is the worst selling jetliner family ever built by Boeing. It looks different to most modern jets so maybe that's it.

Geoff


and the ugliest :)

That would be the 737 max... ok more specifically 737-10... :) It doesn't look different than modern jets, it looks like a modern jet and in the 80s the look was ahead of its time. It has the low centre nose that everything is going to now. It just looks different to their only other narrow body which is the 737 with mix and match of old and new. The 757 is a welcome sight after that.
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 6:40 pm

They are popular because they want to fill in between a compact 737 and a large 747 in terms of marketing. Given the twinjet design, the 757 and 767 are retiring slower than the 747, MD-11, or the A340.
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LH707330
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 7:34 pm

zkncj wrote:
Austin787 wrote:
The 767 opened up many new TATL routes. Air New Zealand even called the 767 the "Dreamliner" of its time: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11829230


It pretty much was, it enabled an twin jet 200 seater cross the Pacific with only on stop required. The DC-8 had to hop its way from AKL-HNL.

Did ANZ ever have any DC-8-62s? Those would have had better range than most 767s I'd think.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:41 pm

Geoff1947 wrote:
Don't get why the 757 has so many fans on A.net. It is the worst selling jetliner family ever built by Boeing. It looks different to most modern jets so maybe that's it.

Geoff




Here is a list of Boeing aircraft by number built:

Boeing 717: 156
Boeing 787 family: 553
Boeing 707 family: 865
Boeing 757 family: 1050
Boeing 767 family: 1099
Boeing 777 family: 1490
Boeing 747 family: 1532
Boeing 727 family: 1832
Boeing 737 family: 9522

The Boeing 757 is NOT the worst selling. However, the 787 will likely surpass it.


AIRBUS

A300: 561
A310: 255
A320 family: 7610
A330 family: 1348
A340 family: 377
A350 family: 86
A380: 213

The A320 and A330 families are the big ones. A350 will probably get close to 1000 or above.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:50 pm

and the ugliest :)
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Sun Jun 25, 2017 11:58 pm

The 757 opened up a lot of routes for airlines that previously were not economical or possible. The 767 was nothing short of revolutionary. It was the first twin jet aircraft capable of useful long haul flights. Until the A330 came along, it was an airplane that you simply had to have. It truly was the Dreamliner of its time, but in my opinion, more important. Nowadays, the plane has simply gotten old, but it still is economical for airlines to operate, which is why they will stick around for a short while longer, until 787s, A330s, and 797s can fully replace them. The 757 simply does not have an economical replacement for most of the routes it operates. Getting the 757 off of short haul with the 738/9ss and A320/A321 was pretty easy, it's mid haul that airlines are struggling to replace the aircraft on. Europe manages to live without it, and simply improvises with A32X family aircraft on the few routes that are 757 appropriate, but with the difference in market in North America, that tactic is not as reliable.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:19 am

AI126 wrote:
Title says it all. I know that especially on this forum, both the 757 and 764 are remarkably popular with many fans saying that neither can ever be "replaced". Why exactly are these planes so popular among fans? Never really understood it myself.


People like the 767 because it's a comfortable ride in Y with 2-3-2 seating. People like the 757 for its looks (I've heard it described as a skinny girl with long legs and big...blessings) and for its unmatched high performance.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:49 am

DeltaXNA wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
Don't get why the 757 has so many fans on A.net. It is the worst selling jetliner family ever built by Boeing. It looks different to most modern jets so maybe that's it.

Geoff




Here is a list of Boeing aircraft by number built:

Boeing 717: 156
Boeing 787 family: 553
Boeing 707 family: 865
Boeing 757 family: 1050
Boeing 767 family: 1099
Boeing 777 family: 1490
Boeing 747 family: 1532
Boeing 727 family: 1832
Boeing 737 family: 9522

The Boeing 757 is NOT the worst selling. However, the 787 will likely surpass it.


AIRBUS

A300: 561
A310: 255
A320 family: 7610
A330 family: 1348
A340 family: 377
A350 family: 86
A380: 213

The A320 and A330 families are the big ones. A350 will probably get close to 1000 or above.


Great list. In my book the 720 is a 707. Not sure if you included those numbers. I thought the 707/720 sold over 1000.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:00 am

It doesn't matter what a-net fans think, it's what the bean counters think. The 767 was/is a great machine (757 too but I'm less familiar with them). AC's were able to make money with them on trans-Atlantic, trans-Pacific, transcontinental, transborder, Caribbean sun destinations, and short-haul Rapidair flights between YUL and YYZ. As they are being supplanted by the 787s, they're being recycled to Rouge and still making a decent living for the parent company. Airfames well over 20 years old in many cases. From a passenger and fan standpoint, the -300 was a very nicely proportioned aircraft: "if it looks right, it probably flies right", and the 2-3-2 seating is a great layout for comfort.

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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:32 am

Tjh8402, You got it right, the 757 is what you could say is one good looking piece of aluminium! Just as I would say of the L 1011. I will always remember flying BA to Milan and Nice on the 757 ,so long ago but the memories linger.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:12 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
DeltaXNA wrote:
Geoff1947 wrote:
Don't get why the 757 has so many fans on A.net. It is the worst selling jetliner family ever built by Boeing. It looks different to most modern jets so maybe that's it.

Geoff




Here is a list of Boeing aircraft by number built:

Boeing 717: 156
Boeing 787 family: 553
Boeing 707 family: 865
Boeing 757 family: 1050
Boeing 767 family: 1099
Boeing 777 family: 1490
Boeing 747 family: 1532
Boeing 727 family: 1832
Boeing 737 family: 9522

The Boeing 757 is NOT the worst selling. However, the 787 will likely surpass it.


AIRBUS

A300: 561
A310: 255
A320 family: 7610
A330 family: 1348
A340 family: 377
A350 family: 86
A380: 213

The A320 and A330 families are the big ones. A350 will probably get close to 1000 or above.


Great list. In my book the 720 is a 707. Not sure if you included those numbers. I thought the 707/720 sold over 1000.



Boeing 720: 154
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:58 am

given the 20 year head start the 737 had on the 320 the latter's numbers are quite impressive.
 
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:14 am

I still love both aircraft and have had excellent experience aboard each one. I am very partial to the Boeing 767. It's hardly the sleekest or fastest bird out there. But it's a reliable workhorse (like my Toyota). This aircraft has also enjoyed an exceptionally long production life.

beechnut wrote:
It doesn't matter what a-net fans think, it's what the bean counters think. The 767 was/is a great machine (757 too but I'm less familiar with them). AC's were able to make money with them on trans-Atlantic, trans-Pacific, transcontinental, transborder, Caribbean sun destinations, and short-haul Rapidair flights between YUL and YYZ. As they are being supplanted by the 787s, they're being recycled to Rouge and still making a decent living for the parent company. Airfames well over 20 years old in many cases. From a passenger and fan standpoint, the -300 was a very nicely proportioned aircraft: "if it looks right, it probably flies right", and the 2-3-2 seating is a great layout for comfort.

Beech


Aside from all that, I just really like that aircraft and hope to get to fly in another soon.
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:33 am

LH707330 wrote:
zkncj wrote:
Austin787 wrote:
The 767 opened up many new TATL routes. Air New Zealand even called the 767 the "Dreamliner" of its time: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news ... d=11829230


It pretty much was, it enabled an twin jet 200 seater cross the Pacific with only on stop required. The DC-8 had to hop its way from AKL-HNL.

Did ANZ ever have any DC-8-62s? Those would have had better range than most 767s I'd think.


NZ operated the DC8-52, the -62's have an published range off 5,200NM we're the -52 has an published range of 5800NM.

762ER has an max range of 6,590nm, and with the 763ER has 5,980nm.

In the past NZ has used the 763 on AKL-PVG,HKG,SIN,NRT,KIX which are all approximately 12hour non-stop services.
 
FlySSC
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:39 am

I wouldn't say the B757 is "so popular".
Beside the US, It didn't sell well in Asia and in Europe : beside BA, no other major airline operated it (well, IB had a few of them) and most airlines prefered the A310 over the B757 (AF, KL, LH, SN, SR, TK, TP... in Europe, TG, SQ, KU, ME, EK, AI, PK, IR... in Asia and Middle East)
The B757 knew a new interest when some airlines started to use it on Transatlantic routes and some "start-up" airlines bought some second hand airplanes but it doesn't make it "popular"
 
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Balerit
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:58 am

PEK777 wrote:
and the ugliest :)
I will murder you


:) To me it is so ungainly and out of proportion with a funny nose. You can try lol, but I was infantry he he he.
Licensed Aircraft Maintenance Engineer (retired).
 
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garpd
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:21 am

FlySSC wrote:
I wouldn't say the B757 is "so popular".


:roll:

It was popular. Don't mistake the HUGE fleets US base airlines used (basically replacing their 727s 1 to 1) as a measure of popularity. Apart from BA, most airlines didn't operate large fleets, but many airlines operated then. Suffice to say the 757 was very numerous throughout Europe. You couldn't NOT see 757s at most airports every day during the 80s, 90s and the 00s.

Package holiday operators in the UK, and later Germany with Condor, particularly loved the 757. In the 80s, 90s and early 00's before the holiday companies such as Thomson and Thomas Cook started operating their own flights, airlines such as Monarch, Britannia and Air Europa were the mainstay of holiday flights from the UK. The 757 was the go to aircraft for those airlines as it was and to some extent still is the only aircraft that enabled them to get a full plane of 200+ people (they were charters so were always full) with all the associated luggage and fuel for a 3 hour flight in and out of some very small runways in the mediterranean area or they could send then fully fuelled across the Atlantic from most UK airports. When Thomson and Thomas Cook took over some charter outfits, they kept the 757s.

The sister ship, the 767, allowed the charter operators to fly further with more PAX but keep the same flight crews, so was a no brainer.
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MajMattMason
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:45 pm

The 767 is a "tale of two versions". While both are fabulous flying machines, the -200 is definitely a "dump truck". But the -300 is it's much nimbler cousin. And slap a pair of winglets on a -300, then she becomes the girl you're leaving the dance with!!

But from a pure aesthetic point of view, there is something sexy about a long legged, narrow body, blended winglet 757-200!!
 
bhill
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:45 pm

Funny, sitting just behind the CG in a window seat...the 767 wings went on forever, and the camber made it seem like you were sitting in a chariot throne....the 757 is one of my favorite..EXCEPT during turbulence...like riding a noodle..and some of my highest altitude flights, 41k feet, was on NWA 757's over the Rockies and Montana!
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afterburner
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Re: Why are the 757/767 so popular?

Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:05 pm

FlySSC wrote:
I wouldn't say the B757 is "so popular".

757 is popular for its fans. :D

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