Largest cities not served by WN

DeltaXNA · Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:52 am

My guesses:

Colorado Springs
Northwest Arkansas
Anchorage
Honolulu
Fresno

MalevTU134 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:03 am

Tokyo, hands down.
Mexico City and Chongqing are up there as well. As is Mumbai, Lagos and São Paulo.
...unless we assume the World begins in San Francisco and ends in Boston, of course..

pbody · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:06 am

Tokyo. Possibly best served as a tag on the end of their STL-LIT route

swafa · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:13 am

MalevTU134 wrote:
Tokyo, hands down.
Mexico City and Chongqing are up there as well. As is Mumbai, Lagos and São Paulo.
...unless we assume the World begins in San Francisco and ends in Boston, of course..

The gentleman can scratch Mexico City from that list. Thank you.

intotheair · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:17 am

Excluding anything outside the U.S., going off the list of busiest US airports and excluding any that have an alternate airport (MDW for ORD, for example), in descending order:

HNL
SJU
OGG
ANC
LIH
KOA
GUM
DAY (though CMH and CVG have service)
SYR
SAV
PSP
MYR
TYS
GSO
MSN
CAK (though CLE has service)

You are right that WN has no service to XNA, COS, or FAT, though they aren't in the top 100, and I stopped looking after that. They serve a pretty surprising number of airports, and there are smaller airports than that with WN service.

The only surprising one to me in that top 100 list that they don't serve already is PSP. That seems like they could make a go of it from SFO/OAK, DEN, and a handful of others, but maybe PSP is too seasonal for them.

INFINITI329 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:28 am

intotheair wrote:
Excluding anything outside the U.S., going off the list of busiest US airports and excluding any that have an alternate airport (MDW for ORD, for example), in descending order:

HNL
SJU
OGG
ANC
LIH
KOA
GUM
DAY (though CMH and CVG have service)
SYR
SAV
PSP
MYR
TYS
GSO
MSN
CAK (though CLE has service)

You are right that WN has no service to XNA, COS, or FAT, though they aren't in the top 100, and I stopped looking after that. They serve a pretty surprising number of airports, and there are smaller airports than that with WN service.

The only surprising one to me in that top 100 list that they don't serve already is PSP. That seems like they could make a go of it from SFO/OAK, DEN, and a handful of others, but maybe PSP is too seasonal for them.

WN serves SJU

bpat777 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:29 am

intotheair wrote:
Excluding anything outside the U.S., going off the list of busiest US airports and excluding any that have an alternate airport (MDW for ORD, for example), in descending order:

HNL
SJU ***
OGG
ANC
LIH
KOA
GUM
DAY (though CMH and CVG have service)
SYR
SAV
PSP
MYR
TYS
GSO
MSN
CAK (though CLE has service)

You are right that WN has no service to XNA, COS, or FAT, though they aren't in the top 100, and I stopped looking after that. They serve a pretty surprising number of airports, and there are smaller airports than that with WN service.

The only surprising one to me in that top 100 list that they don't serve already is PSP. That seems like they could make a go of it from SFO/OAK, DEN, and a handful of others, but maybe PSP is too seasonal for them.

SJU is served from BWI, FLL, TPA, MCO and HOU. I believe MDW also and EWR on Saturday.

intotheair · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:48 am

bpat777 wrote:
intotheair wrote:
Excluding anything outside the U.S., going off the list of busiest US airports and excluding any that have an alternate airport (MDW for ORD, for example), in descending order:

HNL
SJU ***
OGG
ANC
LIH
KOA
GUM
DAY (though CMH and CVG have service)
SYR
SAV
PSP
MYR
TYS
GSO
MSN
CAK (though CLE has service)

You are right that WN has no service to XNA, COS, or FAT, though they aren't in the top 100, and I stopped looking after that. They serve a pretty surprising number of airports, and there are smaller airports than that with WN service.

The only surprising one to me in that top 100 list that they don't serve already is PSP. That seems like they could make a go of it from SFO/OAK, DEN, and a handful of others, but maybe PSP is too seasonal for them.

SJU is served from BWI, FLL, TPA, MCO and HOU. I believe MDW also and EWR on Saturday.

Ah! That's one I should have checked. That's one I presumed they didn't serve and didn't look to confirm.

PlanesNTrains · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:08 am

Of those, arguably the most anticipated and long-awaited one is FAT. Alaska/Hawaii get a lot of interest, though.

southwest1675 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:56 am

Does anyone think WN would have any luck in TYS or CHA?

SurfandSnow · Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:42 am

After WN began serving the New York metropolitan area via ISP in 1999, the airline's largest unserved (domestic) market became the Philadelphia metropolitan area. Service to PHL began in 2004, after which the Atlanta metropolitan area was by far the largest population center in the U.S. without WN service (although BHM did cater to quite a few Atlantans back then). After acquiring FL, WN added ATL to its route map in 2012 and then CLT - WN's largest unserved domestic market after ATL came online - in 2013. The addition of CLT ostensibly left Cincinnati with the dubious distinction of being the largest (and most important) U.S. market without WN service, though in reality DAY was an easy ~1 hour drive while 3 even larger WN stations (CMH, IND and SDF) could be reached within 2 hours.

Now that WN serves CVG, Greensboro/Piedmont Triad (GSO) is technically the largest market in the U.S. without WN service. However, do keep in mind that WN service is readily accessible via CLT and/or RDU; both airports are an easy ~1-1 1/2 hour drive from any of the Piedmont Triad cities. It may also be worth noting WN's poor performance in smaller Southern markets (think GSP, JAN and LIT) as well as GSO's notoriously bad track record with everyone from FL and F9 to the ill-fated Continental Lite and Skybus operations. With all this in mind, I highly doubt WN has any interest in adding service to GSO. If they going to enter any new market in the South, the most likely contender would almost certainly be SAV.

The next next largest unserved domestic market (in terms of population)? The Harrisburg metropolitan area (MDT), a station that FL served at the time of acquisition but WN declined to enter thereafter. Again, one must consider how easy it is to drive to/from Harrisburg to existing WN stations at BWI and PHL in under 2 hours.

After Harrisburg, the only other U.S. markets with more than 1 million people but without WN service are Fresno/FAT (probably one of the most likely candidates anywhere in the continental U.S. to gain WN service), Knoxville/TYS (another FL station that WN declined to enter) and Dayton/DAY (apparently not a viable station with CVG in the mix).

While population certainly isn't the only thing to consider, it may be important to remember that Cincinnati's metropolitan area is home to well over 2 million people. Piedmont Triad has about 1.6 million, and then when it comes to Harrisburg (or anywhere else) you're looking at less than 1.3 million. With respect to the continental U.S. realm, the Cincinnati market was clearly the last of the low hanging fruit for WN - and even that addition came at the expense of an existing station whose namesake market serves over 1 million.

I think many people forget just how close many cities with their own airports lacking WN are to airports that WN does serve. For example, 90 minutes is all one needs to reach Allentown via EWR; Baton Rouge and Gulfport via MSY; Colorado Springs via DEN; Lansing via DTW, FNT, or GRR; Madison via MKE; Palm Springs via ONT; Santa Barbara via BUR; Sarasota via RSW or TPA; or Syracuse via ROC. WN is now a lot more useful to most American travelers - business, VFR and leisure - than many realize. If they do choose to add any further stations in the continental U.S., I would expect them to be complementary stations in markets already served (i.e. JFK, MIA) or places with considerable tourist appeal like BTV, BZN or SAV. Smaller markets with little to no tourist appeal really seem to be struggling, so I just can't see WN venturing into the likes of GSO or SYR...

SyracuseAvGeek · Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:50 am

EGE - Eagle Vail, surprised they haven't started at least seasonal service

smokeybandit · Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:21 am

Half of the Harrisburg metro area is halfway between MDT and BWI, too.

jplatts · Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:07 pm

Laredo is the largest city in Texas that is not served by Southwest Airlines.

AVLAirlineFreq · Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:26 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
It may also be worth noting WN's poor performance in smaller Southern markets (think GSP, JAN and LIT) as well as GSO's notoriously bad track record with everyone from FL and F9 to the ill-fated Continental Lite and Skybus operations. With all this in mind, I highly doubt WN has any interest in adding service to GSO. If they going to enter any new market in the South, the most likely contender would almost certainly be SAV.

When did WN start performing poorly in LIT? I'm not arguing they don't; I'm just surprised to see it included with JAN and GSP. Was it when WN started flying to MEM?

sw733 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:28 pm

SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
EGE - Eagle Vail, surprised they haven't started at least seasonal service

Just playing Keanu Reeves (Devil's Advocate) here...would the crowd that frequents Vail, et al for skiing be the same crowd that would choose WN? I'm not sure.

commavia · Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:43 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
After WN began serving the New York metropolitan area via ISP in 1999, the airline's largest unserved (domestic) market became the Philadelphia metropolitan area. Service to PHL began in 2004, after which the Atlanta metropolitan area was by far the largest population center in the U.S. without WN service (although BHM did cater to quite a few Atlantans back then). After acquiring FL, WN added ATL to its route map in 2012 and then CLT - WN's largest unserved domestic market after ATL came online - in 2013. The addition of CLT ostensibly left Cincinnati with the dubious distinction of being the largest (and most important) U.S. market without WN service, though in reality DAY was an easy ~1 hour drive while 3 even larger WN stations (CMH, IND and SDF) could be reached within 2 hours.

Now that WN serves CVG, Greensboro/Piedmont Triad (GSO) is technically the largest market in the U.S. without WN service. However, do keep in mind that WN service is readily accessible via CLT and/or RDU; both airports are an easy ~1-1 1/2 hour drive from any of the Piedmont Triad cities. It may also be worth noting WN's poor performance in smaller Southern markets (think GSP, JAN and LIT) as well as GSO's notoriously bad track record with everyone from FL and F9 to the ill-fated Continental Lite and Skybus operations. With all this in mind, I highly doubt WN has any interest in adding service to GSO. If they going to enter any new market in the South, the most likely contender would almost certainly be SAV.

The next next largest unserved domestic market (in terms of population)? The Harrisburg metropolitan area (MDT), a station that FL served at the time of acquisition but WN declined to enter thereafter. Again, one must consider how easy it is to drive to/from Harrisburg to existing WN stations at BWI and PHL in under 2 hours.

After Harrisburg, the only other U.S. markets with more than 1 million people but without WN service are Fresno/FAT (probably one of the most likely candidates anywhere in the continental U.S. to gain WN service), Knoxville/TYS (another FL station that WN declined to enter) and Dayton/DAY (apparently not a viable station with CVG in the mix).

Appreciate the articulation of that progression - interesting and, I think, telling.

It is instructive to consider that, today, the largest mainland U.S. metro areas not served by Southwest are all markets served primarily with regional jets by the network carriers. This speaks to both the enduring and meteoric success of Southwest's business model in steadily making its way into every single major market of consequence in the country. I vividly remember, in the late 1990s, when seemingly each and every new Southwest entrance into a - secondary! - northeast market necessitated a Dallas Morning News article. No longer. Today, Southwest is one of the largest operators at virtually every single major market airport in the U.S. except, for obvious reasons, ORD and DFW. But, as has been discussed at length here before, it also speaks to how Southwest has now pretty much reached the limits of where its present fleet can profitably go. At this point, outside of possibly a handful of additional continental U.S. markets - likely some of those listed above - and maybe some flying to Alaska and Hawaii, virtually all of the remainder of Southwest's organic growth potential in the U.S. would require a plane smaller than a 737.

Buddys747 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:09 pm

smokeybandit wrote:
Half of the Harrisburg metro area is halfway between MDT and BWI, too.

I think half is a little exaggerated, York City and south yes, but that's hardly half of the metro area, and parts of the southern Lancaster County maybe.

In terms of being under two hours to PHL , maybe on a good day if you live in eastern Lancaster county, but not certainly the Harrisburg area. BWI depends on traffic.
That being said, as long as people from this area drive to those stations, MDT will never see WN, which is a shame because the airport could use more service, particularly DEN service again.

red66mustang · Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:21 pm

jplatts wrote:
Laredo is the largest city in Texas that is not served by Southwest Airlines.

And?......It is also the 178th largest metro area in the US. I'm sure there are about 75 other destinations that are on WN's map ahead of Laredo

TYSflyer · Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:24 pm

southwest1675 wrote:
Does anyone think WN would have any luck in TYS or CHA?

That is a very good question? TYS supposedly many years ago was on the short list of new destinations but ultimately wn went with BHM. That made sense as it is a larger market and they didn't serve the state of Alabama. Fast forward many years later and wn had an opportunity to start service in TYS with the acquisition of FL. They elected to not keep TYS. I felt that meant they had no interest in starting TYS at least in the next 5-10 years at the time. Unfortunately, TYS and many markets in its category, suffer a tremendous amount of bleed. I think this is something a lot of posters on this site and of larger markets don't realize. TYS supposedly loses 20% passengers to primarily BNA. A good percentage of these passengers fly WN. I am not sure what would entice WN to come to TYS and spend money to open the market when they are already serving many of these passengers via BNA. Maybe the extra business passengers that are less likely to drive? I am also not sure how aggressive the airport authority is in pursuing WN. The local community has pledged about $2.5 million in recruiting a full service low fare airline specifically JetBlue or Southwest. Very little has been heard on that for several years. Further the city leader of this project made the comment when an airline comes and wants to start service to TYS we will show them we have this pot of money for advertisement. My thoughts were why are we waiting on the airlines to come to us. In any event, I think CHA is similar to TYS given the similarities between the 2 cities. However, CHA may have even more bleed given its close proximity to ATL. I do feel that TYS or CHA don't stand a chance of WN in the near future if WN ultimately can't make GSP work. Although I don't think they are struggling as much there as many on this forum seem to believe.

phluser · Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:30 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
. It may also be worth noting WN's poor performance in smaller Southern markets (think GSP, JAN and LIT) as well as GSO's notoriously bad track record with everyone from FL and F9

F9 still services GSO, so there isn't a bad track record to it. That said, WN is RDU is pretty close by drive. In the East, WN tends to do better for routes north of BWI where (for those markets) it can feed some Florida traffic. With smaller Southern markets, it can't fill planes up to BWI with that traffic and has to rely on O&D into DC via BWI, and then likely BOS.

Buddys747 wrote:
smokeybandit wrote:
Half of the Harrisburg metro area is halfway between MDT and BWI, too.

I think half is a little exaggerated, York City and south yes, but that's hardly half of the metro area, and parts of the southern Lancaster County maybe.

In terms of being under two hours to PHL , maybe on a good day if you live in eastern Lancaster county, but not certainly the Harrisburg area. BWI depends on traffic.
That being said, as long as people from this area drive to those stations, MDT will never see WN, which is a shame because the airport could use more service, particularly DEN service again.

Agreed it's exaggerated. Even if we exclude York County, there are still several counties from Lancaster west and micropolitan areas in Central PA, where it's over 1.5 million residents where BWI isn't close and MDT is the closest.

As far as potential pull into MDT, even from Reading (Berks Co.), MDT or ABE would be less aggravating and shorter drive than PHL, and it's not like Southwest dominates PHL or EWR.

With PHL, Amtrak/Septa service from Harrisburg/Lancaster is a factor as it's better than the drive. The Harrisburg-Philadelphia Keystone service is good in frequency and service (and fares aren't fluctuant like NEC) and it daily provides travelers into Philadelphia who go to New York or some might take the R1 down to PHL. From MDT, Southwest might be able to do 1x MCO, 2x MDW and/or 2x ATL but the critical mass might not be large enough, and Southwest will struggle on O&D against DL (to ATL) and likely UA/AA (to CHI), so it opts not to engage in the market. It's easier for Southwest to do something like 2x or 3x BWI service and have the route to itself and feed some traffic down south to Florida ideally and west onto the rest of it's network. It can do that from upstate NY and New England markets.

frmrCapCadet · Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:33 pm

Alaska, JetBlue and WN, the three highest ranking airlines are all weak in flyover country. My wishful thinking is that they would cooperate to an extent in supporting one or more service oriented regional airlines and a service oriented car rental agency (one that eschews gotcha fees and other similar mafia behavior). Such regionals need some assurance that as they develop profitable runs they don't get run over by the bigger airline moving in and taking it over. The contracts could include buying out such routes. The object would be to become more and more inclusive in covering the whole country. These three strong airlines probably already interline, but should feature such service, to my mind better than mergers.

cledaybuck · Mon Jun 26, 2017 1:40 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Alaska, JetBlue and WN, the three highest ranking airlines are all weak in flyover country. My wishful thinking is that they would cooperate to an extent in supporting one or more service oriented regional airlines and a service oriented car rental agency (one that eschews gotcha fees and other similar mafia behavior). Such regionals need some assurance that as they develop profitable runs they don't get run over by the bigger airline moving in and taking it over. The contracts could include buying out such routes. The object would be to become more and more inclusive in covering the whole country. These three strong airlines probably already interline, but should feature such service, to my mind better than mergers.

What are you considering flyover country? Because WN looks pretty solid in the middle of the country to me.

stlgph · Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:07 pm

In terms of "Metropolitan Statistical Areas" - the largest is Honolulu.

In terms of cities in the realm of stand-alone cities, the winner with a side of shine is Colorado Springs.
The debatable winners are Ft Worth, TX, given that Love Field is down the road and Mesa, AZ, given that Phoenix is right down the road.

LotsaRunway · Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:13 pm

commavia wrote:
Appreciate the articulation of that progression - interesting and, I think, telling.

It is instructive to consider that, today, the largest mainland U.S. metro areas not served by Southwest are all markets served primarily with regional jets by the network carriers. This speaks to both the enduring and meteoric success of Southwest's business model in steadily making its way into every single major market of consequence in the country. I vividly remember, in the late 1990s, when seemingly each and every new Southwest entrance into a - secondary! - northeast market necessitated a Dallas Morning News article. No longer. Today, Southwest is one of the largest operators at virtually every single major market airport in the U.S. except, for obvious reasons, ORD and DFW. But, as has been discussed at length here before, it also speaks to how Southwest has now pretty much reached the limits of where its present fleet can profitably go. At this point, outside of possibly a handful of additional continental U.S. markets - likely some of those listed above - and maybe some flying to Alaska and Hawaii, virtually all of the remainder of Southwest's organic growth potential in the U.S. would require a plane smaller than a 737.

And yet, the size of their smallest aircraft is getting larger. Once it was 122 seats, then 137, now 143. And if nothing changes when the -700's are eventually retired, the Max7 will be the smallest at 150 and most of the fleet could be in the 175 seat range.

Could this lead to the smaller US markets no longer working for WN, cutting the domestic footprint instead of growing? Or could their real future growth be international? Or maybe, hold your breath, WN could consider non-Boeing smaller aircraft for domestic growth.

AVLAirlineFreq · Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:23 pm

phluser wrote:
F9 still services GSO, so there isn't a bad track record to it. That said, WN is RDU is pretty close by drive.

The challenge with GSO is that although it sits in a populated market, there is a huge amount of bleed in the region to both CLT and RDU.

jfklganyc · Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:55 pm

JFK has to be biggest city unserved. One could argue LGA serves this purpose

frmrCapCadet · Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:55 pm

https://www.southwest.com/flight/routemap_dyn.html
https://www.jetblue.com/wherewejet/?int ... wherewejet

Southwest from Seattle to St Paul Minneapolis, and Canada to a line from Reno, Los Vegas, Albuquerque, Amarillo only six cities have service. Alaska has some flights there but not a lot. JetBlue an even bigger hole.

KiloRomeoDelta · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:12 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
Tokyo, hands down.

What are you saying? I think I just heard on my last WN flight "Welcome to Southwest flight 3486 service to San Antonio, continuing on to Oakland, Honolulu, Guam and Tokyo Narita operated on our state-of-the-art Boeing 737-300 series aircraft!"

intotheair · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:28 pm

KiloRomeoDelta wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Tokyo, hands down.

What are you saying? I think I just heard on my last WN flight "Welcome to Southwest flight 3486 service to San Antonio, continuing on to Oakland, Honolulu, Guam and Tokyo Narita operated on our state-of-the-art Boeing 737-300 series aircraft!"

I think you may have gotten confused with UA :duck:

stl07 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 4:56 pm

intotheair wrote:
KiloRomeoDelta wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
Tokyo, hands down.

What are you saying? I think I just heard on my last WN flight "Welcome to Southwest flight 3486 service to San Antonio, continuing on to Oakland, Honolulu, Guam and Tokyo Narita operated on our state-of-the-art Boeing 737-300 series aircraft!"

I think you may have gotten confused with UA

The "island hopper" makes 5 more random stops in the Marshall Islands I think haha

stl07 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:05 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
frmrCapCadet wrote:
Alaska, JetBlue and WN, the three highest ranking airlines are all weak in flyover country. My wishful thinking is that they would cooperate to an extent in supporting one or more service oriented regional airlines and a service oriented car rental agency (one that eschews gotcha fees and other similar mafia behavior). Such regionals need some assurance that as they develop profitable runs they don't get run over by the bigger airline moving in and taking it over. The contracts could include buying out such routes. The object would be to become more and more inclusive in covering the whole country. These three strong airlines probably already interline, but should feature such service, to my mind better than mergers.
What are you considering flyover country? Because WN looks pretty solid in the middle of the country to me.

Yes Iv never heard of an airline with hubs/focus cites/large operations so close as in BNA, MDW, STL, DEN, MCI, MKE and up an coming in PIT.
AS seems to have listened to this complaint as they are expanding all over the midwest. Your right though, B6 is horrible in the midwest.

aemoreira1981 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:08 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
Alaska, JetBlue and WN, the three highest ranking airlines are all weak in flyover country. My wishful thinking is that they would cooperate to an extent in supporting one or more service oriented regional airlines and a service oriented car rental agency (one that eschews gotcha fees and other similar mafia behavior). Such regionals need some assurance that as they develop profitable runs they don't get run over by the bigger airline moving in and taking it over. The contracts could include buying out such routes. The object would be to become more and more inclusive in covering the whole country. These three strong airlines probably already interline, but should feature such service, to my mind better than mergers.

WN flies to even most of flyover. That had been the domain of the B735s for a long time. AS and B6 are generally regional airlines if you ask me...B6 as an East Coast regional airline (basically the former legacy EA) with a small LBI operation, and AS (with VX) as the dominant West Coast regional airline.

LotsaRunway · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:17 pm

I think the next domestic station will be HNL once they get the Max ETOPs into shape. Other than that, I don't see many new US stations coming online unless they figure out a smaller city strategy. If they venture into more international locations, they almost have to beef up international gateways with more connecting domestic traffic. That said, there is a whole lot of reconnecting of the dots they can do for growth. They could grow out places that may have been cut because the airplane could make more money flying elsewhere when aircraft were in short supply.

If WN is inclined to try some more small stations, there is a huge geographical gap in Montana, Wyoming and the Dakotas. Small operations of 3 or so flights to Billings or Rapid City could cover a huge gap.

allegiantflyer · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:19 pm

WN has the domestic market covered, so in the range of North America I would say Toronto.

But if we stick to domestic I would say HNL

phxsanslcpdx · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:23 pm

sw733 wrote:
SyracuseAvGeek wrote:
EGE - Eagle Vail, surprised they haven't started at least seasonal service

Just playing Keanu Reeves (Devil's Advocate) here...would the crowd that frequents Vail, et al for skiing be the same crowd that would choose WN? I'm not sure.

Vail's built up considerable market share among the sorts of middle-class travelers who often fly WN. This is particularly true in northern California, with a big chunk of passholders at Northstar, Heavenly, and Kirkwood. If WN's interested in pursuing winter seasonal service, OAK-EGE would be a top choice, with SAC-EGE likely profitable too. Vail's Epic Pass also includes Wilmot in Wisconsin, so maybe there's enough demand for WN to serve MDW-EGE. Beyond that, it'll be harder, but they could likely make some additional destinations work.

intotheair wrote:
The only surprising one to me in that top 100 list that they don't serve already is PSP. That seems like they could make a go of it from SFO/OAK, DEN, and a handful of others, but maybe PSP is too seasonal for them.

Yeah, WN's seemed to shy away from seasonal routes generally. The PSP market is already pretty well-served, and I suspect that WN doesn't see a lot of potential to grow the market, which is their usual plan. For Southwest loyalists, ONT is close enough to satisfy at least a chunk of the demand. They'd be going in and fighting for market share against established carriers, some of whom have lower cost structures than WN. Doesn't seem to offer Southwest much of any upside, so I think it's less likely than EGE or additional beach destinations if they ever decide to ramp up winter seasonal.

DakotaFlyer · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:24 pm

Pipe dream, but would love SWA in Fargo but don't believe there is enough population or bleed to support any significant service. They might pull some pax from Winnipeg, but still not enough

gregn21 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:33 pm

I could see WN in PSP sometime soon. That's one of the largest markets unserved by them in the continental US I think. Maybe daily ops to 2 or 3 of OAK, PHX, DEN, DAL, and MDW??

diverdave · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:48 pm

TYSflyer wrote:
TYS supposedly loses 20% passengers to primarily BNA. A good percentage of these passengers fly WN. I am not sure what would entice WN to come to TYS and spend money to open the market when they are already serving many of these passengers via BNA. Maybe the extra business passengers that are less likely to drive?

That still leaves the 80% of the market that is not driving to BNA, plus the bleed that TYS would pick up from TRI and CHA.

yowza · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:57 pm

allegiantflyer wrote:
WN has the domestic market covered, so in the range of North America I would say Toronto.

But if we stick to domestic I would say HNL

I would throw Montreal (served via Plattsburgh, NY) into the mix.

YOWza

barney captain · Mon Jun 26, 2017 5:57 pm

I wouldn't expect to see any additional domestic cities (lower 48) added anytime soon. My guess for next announcements would be PTY, BOG, HNL, ANC and likely a few more Caribbean markets. Follow that with YVR and YYZ.

PlanesNTrains · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:05 pm

gregn21 wrote:
I could see WN in PSP sometime soon. That's one of the largest markets unserved by them in the continental US I think. Maybe daily ops to 2 or 3 of OAK, PHX, DEN, DAL, and MDW??

Perhaps, but it is very accessible to their base over ONT. We've always used ONT as our Palm Springs gateway since we get a rental car anyhow and the fares are usually much cheaper. In April we actually used LAX since the airfare and car were dirt cheap. I like the idea of PSP for them but think they have bigger fish to fry.

yowza wrote:
allegiantflyer wrote:
WN has the domestic market covered, so in the range of North America I would say Toronto.

But if we stick to domestic I would say HNL

I would throw Montreal (served via Plattsburgh, NY) into the mix.

YOWza

I can't see Plattsburgh personally. They have seemed to be moving into larger airports rather than focusing on the F9/G4 type of cities.

727LOVER · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:11 pm

SurfandSnow wrote:
I think many people forget just how close many cities with their own airports lacking WN are to airports that WN does serve. ; Sarasota via RSW or TPA; Smaller markets with little to no tourist appeal really seem to be struggling, so I just can't see WN venturing into the likes of GSO or SYR...

No tourism in Sarasota/Bradenton? :lol:

Sure lets just put everyone on the road, driving is safer than flying, right??? Can't wait to see a story of someone getting into an accident on the interstate while driving to catch a WN flight, even though there's an airport closer with a decent population base.

Cold day in hell before I fly them again.

mikelive · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:21 pm

Most of the comments I hear from callers while working at one of WN's reservation centers surround when we will begin service to Hawaii. Usually at least once a shift, I'll be asked if we fly to MIA, JFK or ORD. Also have had calls for PSP and BIL.

OzarkD9S · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:26 pm

gregn21 wrote:

I could see WN in PSP sometime soon. That's one of the largest markets unserved by them in the continental US I think. Maybe daily ops to 2 or 3 of OAK, PHX, DEN, DAL, and MDW??

The problem with PSP is seasonality. October through April would be great, but "nobody" wants to go there during the summer. :melting:

tjh8402 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:28 pm

The two places I go that I'd love to see WN on are DRO and GSO. Flights there are pricey and I have often ended up driving from ABQ and RDU instead.

frmrCapCadet · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:38 pm

Southwest flies none in Montana, Wyoming, North and South Dakota, to one location in Oregon, Idaho, Colorado, Utah, Minnesota, two in Washington and Nevada. Depending on where you draw the line for flyover country there may be a couple more. Anyway that is 11 states with only 9 locations. And it is a huge amount of territory. I understand why WN doesn't serve them, and that is far different they saying they have a lot of service. Many people are hundreds of miles from WN service

Jshank83 · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:41 pm

frmrCapCadet wrote:
https://www.southwest.com/flight/routemap_dyn.html
https://www.jetblue.com/wherewejet/?int ... wherewejet

Southwest from Seattle to St Paul Minneapolis, and Canada to a line from Reno, Los Vegas, Albuquerque, Amarillo only six cities have service. Alaska has some flights there but not a lot. JetBlue an even bigger hole.

The area you are talking about there are very few cities WN flies to because the population is really small and can't support them. There aren't many options to fly to in that area. Also, I consider that more West than Midwest, but I guess that is different for who you ask. The airlines that do have service in that area are "usually" flying on really small jets and only on AA/UA/DL regional carriers and propeller airline companies. Many are probably EAS airports also. Some of the airports in that area that Frontier and Allegiant fly to with bigger planes are only for leisure routes. I am sure WN probably could make a few work if they had unlimited planes to work with but for now, those aren't options. I would think most people don't consider those holes in their network because they aren't big enough towns.

ILNFlyer · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:55 pm

intotheair wrote:
Excluding anything outside the U.S., going off the list of busiest US airports and excluding any that have an alternate airport (MDW for ORD, for example), in descending order:

HNL
SJU
OGG
ANC
LIH
KOA
GUM
DAY (though CMH and CVG have service)
SYR
SAV
PSP
MYR
TYS
GSO
MSN
CAK (though CLE has service)

You are right that WN has no service to XNA, COS, or FAT, though they aren't in the top 100, and I stopped looking after that. They serve a pretty surprising number of airports, and there are smaller airports than that with WN service.

The only surprising one to me in that top 100 list that they don't serve already is PSP. That seems like they could make a go of it from SFO/OAK, DEN, and a handful of others, but maybe PSP is too seasonal for them.

They just dropped DAY and CAK not long ago, so I think we should strike those.

PlanesNTrains · Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:56 pm

OzarkD9S wrote:
gregn21 wrote:

I could see WN in PSP sometime soon. That's one of the largest markets unserved by them in the continental US I think. Maybe daily ops to 2 or 3 of OAK, PHX, DEN, DAL, and MDW??

The problem with PSP is seasonality. October through April would be great, but "nobody" wants to go there during the summer.

Perhaps flex the seasonality with ANC? Not really their modus operandi but would be efficient. :-)

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