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catiii
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:16 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
......he's not serious, he's just taking a preemptive jab at a user who DOES make imbecilic posts that sound exactly like that, with flawless predictability/consistency.


Got it. Went right over my head, admittedly.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:21 pm

catiii wrote:
Got it. Went right over my head, admittedly.

No worries.

Just peek into any thread that has ATL or DTW in the title... you'll get to see the real thing, live. ;)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
dcajet
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:28 pm

csavel wrote:
A couple of comments:

1. Schengen has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. EU member states may or may not be part of the Schengen Treaty according to their national interest, etc. Example: Ireland is a full fledged EU member and is not part of Schengen, same as the UK. To complicate matters further, a state can also be part of Schengen and not part of the EU but of the EEZ - such is the case of Norway and Iceland.


It does in as much that the fact that Martinique and Guadeloupe are NOT Schengen might have the suits running to their lawyers to make sure any JV agreement covers any possible extenuating circumcstances. That Schengen thing DOES mean flying from the US to Martinique isn't exactly like flying from the US to Lyon as a practical matter. How different? Dunno, not a lawyer, but I can imagine that it is possible that it does actually make a difference somewhere in the fine print.


With all due respect, either you are trying to sound like a lawyer or you are tripping up with the idea of Schengen. In any case, you don't seem to understand what Schengen is about.

Schengen does not affect a passenger in any way when flying to France from the US, whether you fly from Albuquerque or Albany to Paris, Martinique or Nice. In all cases, you MUST clear European immigration and customs upon arrival in France. Schengen does apply when traveling from France to any of the EU or EEZ member states that are Schengen signatories. So, when traveling from France to Spain, the Czech Republic or Iceland, there are no border controls. There are however, border controls between France and Ireland, as the the latter is not part of the Schengen space.

Rds,
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AV8AJET
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:58 pm

With the work being done on Concourse on F for an A380 gate perhaps mean a potential for AirFrance to introduce the A380 on CDG-ATL???
"To fly or not to fly there is no question!"
 
MAH4546
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:08 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
There's no question that MIA is the top destination for PTP- and FDF-originating O&D, but with nonstop flights and lower fares, Norwegian is likely cutting into AF's market quite a bit. AA has also relatively recently added nonstops to MIA. The advantage of ATL is that it offers connections to just about anywhere in North America on SkyTeam, which is important for the Antilles travellers who are quite loyal to AF. The other advantage is that it allows AF to compete directly with Norwegian on all its new routes, which wasn't possible given the very limited connection options and multi-stop routes through MIA.

I still think YUL (and maybe YYZ) are huge untapped markets for Norwegian and other carriers. Canadians have a much higher propensity to travel to the Caribbean than Americans and the French language is less of a barrier. AC charges a fortune for its flights from YUL to FDF and PTP.


AF does not fly non-stop from FDF or PTP to Miami, American Airlines does.

Air Frances flies an "island hopper" between Miami and Cayenne via Port Au Prince, Fort de France and Pointe Pitre (although it does not go to Cayenne every day of the week). The majority of the traffic on the route is flying just between Miami and Port Au Prince.
a.
 
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spinkid
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:07 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
I'm surprised that AF doesn't try to compete with DY to the Northeast, even if it means a third plane based at PTP. AF has had a Caribbean network for years...originally it was a single B732.


I don't think AF knew the market was there. DY is having success, mostly with their fares and Martinique and Guadeloupe are now getting some more attention among U.S. based travelers. ATL less than daily is an easy add for them. I don't think they will try to compete with Norwegian and their pricing.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Thu Jun 29, 2017 11:32 pm

Why stop at Guadeloupe and Martinique? ATL-RUN! I'd buy a ticket...
 
globalcabotage
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:21 am

catiii wrote:
alfa164 wrote:
ocracoke wrote:
Another dumb move by AF. ATL? Everyone and his/her emotional support lobster know that DTW would have been the better choice. AF would have made a bizillgillion dollars flying from DTW to the Caribbean, but like DL, they go ahead and try to stuff everything into ATL.
Oh well. Add AF to the no fly list.

;) I think you went over the heads of a few commentators here... and I am sure you went over the head of the poster-who-should-not-be-named.

He/she/it will probably chime in any moment to support you... :lol:


Definitely went over my head.


DTW is getting out of control. We used to joke about MIA and BOS, but DTW has become the joke of the year.

"I don't see why DTW-BKK can't work daily on a DL 359."
 
Brickell305
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:34 am

AV8AJET wrote:
With the work being done on Concourse on F for an A380 gate perhaps mean a potential for AirFrance to introduce the A380 on CDG-ATL???

How would this have anything to do with that? The traffic between CDG/ORY and PTP/FDF flies nonstop. There is very high traffic with multiple airlines flying multiple flights between the islands and mainland France. No one is going to connect through Atlanta to go between mainland France and the islands.
 
guyanam
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:08 am

wenders825 wrote:
brilliant response to DY. MIA has the demand but ATL can pull people from everywhere. I like this strike back...AF are the far larger airline in FDF and PTP



Not sure if this is a response to DY. AF cannot survive on these DY fares. DY operates only during the winter. This will cater to a different market, most likely people who live outside of the PVD/JFK/FLL markets that DY serves. I assume that this is to leverage DLs excellent connectivity at ATL.

These islands might be a niche market, but certainly one that can grow. Its not as if these islands are unknown as Club Med has had a US clientele for quite a while. After all it was this chain which started the whole all inclusive concept.
 
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:18 am

YYZLGA wrote:
.. Canadians have a much higher propensity to travel to the Caribbean than Americans and the French language is less of a barrier. AC charges a fortune for its flights from YUL to FDF and PTP.



Not sure where you got that from. Even if your comment was meant to refer to the French Caribbean and not the Caribbean at large DY has more flights to PTP/FDF than the combined service by AC and Transat, based on Dec. DY is oriented to the leisure market as the French Antilleans travel to the USA mainly in the summer, which will be clear to any one who thinks seriously about it.

Canadians have a propensity to travel heavily to Cuba and the DR. Every where else in the Caribbean US visitors way outnumber them.
 
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AirAfreak
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:29 am

MAH4546 wrote:
YYZLGA wrote:
There's no question that MIA is the top destination for PTP- and FDF-originating O&D, but with nonstop flights and lower fares, Norwegian is likely cutting into AF's market quite a bit. AA has also relatively recently added nonstops to MIA. The advantage of ATL is that it offers connections to just about anywhere in North America on SkyTeam, which is important for the Antilles travellers who are quite loyal to AF. The other advantage is that it allows AF to compete directly with Norwegian on all its new routes, which wasn't possible given the very limited connection options and multi-stop routes through MIA.

I still think YUL (and maybe YYZ) are huge untapped markets for Norwegian and other carriers. Canadians have a much higher propensity to travel to the Caribbean than Americans and the French language is less of a barrier. AC charges a fortune for its flights from YUL to FDF and PTP.


AF does not fly non-stop from FDF or PTP to Miami, American Airlines does.

Air Frances flies an "island hopper" between Miami and Cayenne via Port Au Prince, Fort de France and Pointe Pitre (although it does not go to Cayenne every day of the week). The majority of the traffic on the route is flying just between Miami and Port Au Prince.



At one point, wasn't Santo Domingo included in the Miami - Cayenne multi-stop service?

Does AF continue to offer a similar version of the "Alizé" and "Vacances" cabin services?
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
YYZLGA
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:14 am

MAH4546 wrote:
AF does not fly non-stop from FDF or PTP to Miami, American Airlines does.

Air Frances flies an "island hopper" between Miami and Cayenne via Port Au Prince, Fort de France and Pointe Pitre (although it does not go to Cayenne every day of the week). The majority of the traffic on the route is flying just between Miami and Port Au Prince.


Yes, that was my point. AF clearly can't compete with AA and DY's direct flights to MIA, so they're trying an alternative approach of going for connecting traffic rather than sticking exclusively to MIA, even though the latter is the dominant O&D market.

guyanam wrote:
Not sure where you got that from. Even if your comment was meant to refer to the French Caribbean and not the Caribbean at large DY has more flights to PTP/FDF than the combined service by AC and Transat, based on Dec. DY is oriented to the leisure market as the French Antilleans travel to the USA mainly in the summer, which will be clear to any one who thinks seriously about it.

Canadians have a propensity to travel heavily to Cuba and the DR. Every where else in the Caribbean US visitors way outnumber them.


I was saying that DY is missing an opportunity by not also serving YUL (and maybe YYZ) in addition to its Northeastern US markets from PTP and FDF. Guadeloupe and Martinique would be very attractive destinations for Canadians, especially French Canadians. I think there's clearly a potential market there that could be stimulated with much lower fares than what AC is charging now.

Of course Americans outnumber Canadians in most of the Caribbean. The US is ten times the population. But the percentage of Canadians who travel to the Caribbean is far higher than the percentage of Americans. I suspect that many of those travellers--especially Quebeckers--now going to Cuba and the DR would look at Guadeloupe and Martinique if there were more reasonably priced flights than what AC offers.
 
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:08 pm

BN727227Ultra wrote:
Why stop at Guadeloupe and Martinique? ATL-RUN! I'd buy a ticket...


Are you kidding?? That's impossibly far. You'd need to schedule an extra week of vacation just to recover from sitting in a plane for over 17 hours.
 
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Polot
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:20 pm

AV8AJET wrote:
With the work being done on Concourse on F for an A380 gate perhaps mean a potential for AirFrance to introduce the A380 on CDG-ATL???

ATL already has a A380 capable gate in E. I'm sure DL would be accommodating for a AF A380 unlike QR, the only issue would be if it conflicts with the time the KE A380 is on the ground (if KE every brings it back to ATL).

The F A380 gate is honestly more so A380s don't have to go to E anymore (very inconvenient for a large number of passengers in terms of FIS) rather than increasing ATL A380 capacity (although obviously it can).
 
CanesFan
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:23 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
winGl3t wrote:
I always thought the next step in North America for AF Caribbean A320 would be JFK or YUL due to stronger local demand.
ATL makes more sense for connecting though.


FDF/PTP-JFK/YUL will require ETOPS or a pretty lengthy diversion. SJU-BDA is a little bit more than 120 minutes.


Actually, it can be done without ETOPS or a lengthy diversion.
 
guyanam
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:34 pm

YYZLGA wrote:
[.
Of course Americans outnumber Canadians in most of the Caribbean. The US is ten times the population. But the percentage of Canadians who travel to the Caribbean is far higher than the percentage of Americans. I suspect that many of those travellers--especially Quebeckers--now going to Cuba and the DR would look at Guadeloupe and Martinique if there were more reasonably priced flights than what AC offers.



Airlines aren't interested in what % of travelers go to which destinations. They care about whether travel volumes are sustainable. So the USA will always be of greater interest. I am not sure how DY is able to sustain those low fares but I suspect that this is a key factor in terms of the routes that they select. Very low fares mean that there has to be volume. Transat probably gobbles up much of the YUL market that DY would otherwise target.

Canadians are infamous for buying packages, based heavily on price for their generic "sun and sand" vacations. Not sure that the French Antilles fit this niche, given that these islands are among the most expensive in the Caribbean. There is a reason why they select Varadero, and Punta Cana for their vacations and its not for their cultural offerings.
 
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:47 pm

CanesFan wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
winGl3t wrote:
I always thought the next step in North America for AF Caribbean A320 would be JFK or YUL due to stronger local demand.
ATL makes more sense for connecting though.


FDF/PTP-JFK/YUL will require ETOPS or a pretty lengthy diversion. SJU-BDA is a little bit more than 120 minutes.


Actually, it can be done without ETOPS or a lengthy diversion.


With what alternates?
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CanesFan
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:07 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
CanesFan wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

FDF/PTP-JFK/YUL will require ETOPS or a pretty lengthy diversion. SJU-BDA is a little bit more than 120 minutes.


Actually, it can be done without ETOPS or a lengthy diversion.


With what alternates?


Bermuda is what allows EOW but non-ETOPS ops through the area. I fly the 737 for AA and routinely fly JFK-ANU (or TAPA, if you prefer.) I'll use Antigua-JFK as an example. When flying through the non-radar oceanic airspace, you are required to fly on the Lima routes (L454-462, etc.) You have to enter these airways at the FIR boundary intersections (KEEKA, HANCY, KINCH, etc...) You also exit at an intersection along the FIR boundary, for JFK, usually MARIG. The routing brings the flight close enough to Bermuda to permit such operations.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:21 pm

CanesFan wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
CanesFan wrote:

Actually, it can be done without ETOPS or a lengthy diversion.


With what alternates?


Bermuda is what allows EOW but non-ETOPS ops through the area. I fly the 737 for AA and routinely fly JFK-ANU (or TAPA, if you prefer.) I'll use Antigua-JFK as an example. When flying through the non-radar oceanic airspace, you are required to fly on the Lima routes (L454-462, etc.) You have to enter these airways at the FIR boundary intersections (KEEKA, HANCY, KINCH, etc...) You also exit at an intersection along the FIR boundary, for JFK, usually MARIG. The routing brings the flight close enough to Bermuda to permit such operations.


Isn't there a small area at about 25.5 degrees North, 65 degrees West that is too far from both BDA and SJU?
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:35 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:
Why stop at Guadeloupe and Martinique? ATL-RUN! I'd buy a ticket...


Are you kidding?? That's impossibly far. You'd need to schedule an extra week of vacation just to recover from sitting in a plane for over 17 hours.


D00d, it'd be one-way. Come on, Powerball!
 
CanesFan
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:51 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
CanesFan wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

With what alternates?


Bermuda is what allows EOW but non-ETOPS ops through the area. I fly the 737 for AA and routinely fly JFK-ANU (or TAPA, if you prefer.) I'll use Antigua-JFK as an example. When flying through the non-radar oceanic airspace, you are required to fly on the Lima routes (L454-462, etc.) You have to enter these airways at the FIR boundary intersections (KEEKA, HANCY, KINCH, etc...) You also exit at an intersection along the FIR boundary, for JFK, usually MARIG. The routing brings the flight close enough to Bermuda to permit such operations.


Isn't there a small area at about 25.5 degrees North, 65 degrees West that is too far from both BDA and SJU?


That is one of the reasons you are on a charted Lima route. That being said, I don't think I have ever been routed on L461, but I have flown L459
 
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:09 pm

usdcaguy wrote:
BN727227Ultra wrote:
Why stop at Guadeloupe and Martinique? ATL-RUN! I'd buy a ticket...


Are you kidding?? That's impossibly far. You'd need to schedule an extra week of vacation just to recover from sitting in a plane for over 17 hours.


I was very surprised the other night as there was an Air Austral 777-300 at DFW on June 10. It was my catch of the year as I had never heard of them being in the USA except for at the Boeing factory. A very nice looking plane.
 
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:35 pm

CanesFan wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
CanesFan wrote:

Bermuda is what allows EOW but non-ETOPS ops through the area. I fly the 737 for AA and routinely fly JFK-ANU (or TAPA, if you prefer.) I'll use Antigua-JFK as an example. When flying through the non-radar oceanic airspace, you are required to fly on the Lima routes (L454-462, etc.) You have to enter these airways at the FIR boundary intersections (KEEKA, HANCY, KINCH, etc...) You also exit at an intersection along the FIR boundary, for JFK, usually MARIG. The routing brings the flight close enough to Bermuda to permit such operations.


Isn't there a small area at about 25.5 degrees North, 65 degrees West that is too far from both BDA and SJU?


That is one of the reasons you are on a charted Lima route. That being said, I don't think I have ever been routed on L461, but I have flown L459


The area I'm thinking of is just north of TALSU on L459 (between SHEIL and TALSU). TALSU is 389 nm from SJU and 449 nm from BDA; I don't know what engine out speed you all use for the 738 but it's hard for me to believe it's more than 425 knots. That's why I'm confused about the legality of the route.
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csavel
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:22 pm

dcajet wrote:
csavel wrote:
A couple of comments:

1. Schengen has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. EU member states may or may not be part of the Schengen Treaty according to their national interest, etc. Example: Ireland is a full fledged EU member and is not part of Schengen, same as the UK. To complicate matters further, a state can also be part of Schengen and not part of the EU but of the EEZ - such is the case of Norway and Iceland.


It does in as much that the fact that Martinique and Guadeloupe are NOT Schengen might have the suits running to their lawyers to make sure any JV agreement covers any possible extenuating circumcstances. That Schengen thing DOES mean flying from the US to Martinique isn't exactly like flying from the US to Lyon as a practical matter. How different? Dunno, not a lawyer, but I can imagine that it is possible that it does actually make a difference somewhere in the fine print.


With all due respect, either you are trying to sound like a lawyer or you are tripping up with the idea of Schengen. In any case, you don't seem to understand what Schengen is about.

Schengen does not affect a passenger in any way when flying to France from the US, whether you fly from Albuquerque or Albany to Paris, Martinique or Nice. In all cases, you MUST clear European immigration and customs upon arrival in France. Schengen does apply when traveling from France to any of the EU or EEZ member states that are Schengen signatories. So, when traveling from France to Spain, the Czech Republic or Iceland, there are no border controls. There are however, border controls between France and Ireland, as the the latter is not part of the Schengen space.

Rds,


not a lawyer and while I trip up on how to boil water and almost anything else in life as my wife will be happy to remind me,

I am not actually talking about Schengen here. That is kind of the point! I think we are talking at each other. I am stating simply that since there are parts of France that are for whatever reasons NOT part of Schengen it is a possibility that there might be different requirements in crafting a joint venture in terms of customs and immigration, such that unless one is aiming to fly there from the get-go, the two airlines might just say, let's not bother.

Again, I don't know. I am not a lawyer, but I am pointing out that it is not as simple as saying "hurf-durf, Martinique is part of France you stupid Americans" It's part of France with different entry requirements. If someone on these boards are a laywer or are similarly in the know, please chime in - I've always found topics like this very interesting.

More context from the French Foreign ministry. Because it is legalese, I can't be sure but it appears that some British or former British Caribbean territories that would require a visa to go to Metropolitan France can go to Martinique or Guadeloupe visa free. (Also Bermudan citisens can go to Mayotte visa free, guess that bodes well for Mayotte-Bermuda relations).

France - US --> Schengen applies
most of the world to Metropolitan France --> Schengen applies, either if you are an EU citizen, no border or if you are from the US, then a passport.

SOME PARTS OF France - EU --> Schengen *may* not apply because those départments d'outre mer are NOT part of Schengen. In terms of immigration, this means it would be theoretically possible for a person who needs a visa to get to the EU but NOT to Martinique is then in France. So to go from France to France can require a valid passport!
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CanesFan
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:52 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
CanesFan wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

Isn't there a small area at about 25.5 degrees North, 65 degrees West that is too far from both BDA and SJU?


That is one of the reasons you are on a charted Lima route. That being said, I don't think I have ever been routed on L461, but I have flown L459


The area I'm thinking of is just north of TALSU on L459 (between SHEIL and TALSU). TALSU is 389 nm from SJU and 449 nm from BDA; I don't know what engine out speed you all use for the 738 but it's hard for me to believe it's more than 425 knots. That's why I'm confused about the legality of the route.


Our engine-out speed on the 73 is .79/335, which translates into a 435 NM 60 minute flight distance. TALSU actually works because it is 362 NM from Grand Turk (MBGT.) I guess a better answer is the Caribbean geography in general, not just BDA, allows for non-ETOPS in this region. We do have a restriction not to fly east of L462 between 25N and 26N unless using Captain's emergency authority.
 
airbazar
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:10 pm

csavel wrote:

It does in as much that the fact that Martinique and Guadeloupe are NOT Schengen might have the suits running to their lawyers to make sure any JV agreement covers any possible extenuating circumcstances. That Schengen thing DOES mean flying from the US to Martinique isn't exactly like flying from the US to Lyon as a practical matter. How different? Dunno, not a lawyer, but I can imagine that it is possible that it does actually make a difference somewhere in the fine print.

It makes a difference only if the market was not explicitly outlined in the JV agreement, which I don't know. We don't know. For simplicity reasons we only hear the term "Transatlantic JV", but it could be much wider than just transatlantic.
As far as your other comment, flying from the US to Martinique is EXACTLY like flying from the US to Lyon. As stated above, Schengen does not mean anything here. The Schengen agreement basically refers to the elimination of borders among participating countries. It's only relevant if you're traveling between 2 Schengen countries. Since the U.S. is not a Schengen country, flying from the US to Martinique is EXACTLY like flying from the US to Lyon.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:47 pm

CanesFan wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
CanesFan wrote:

That is one of the reasons you are on a charted Lima route. That being said, I don't think I have ever been routed on L461, but I have flown L459


The area I'm thinking of is just north of TALSU on L459 (between SHEIL and TALSU). TALSU is 389 nm from SJU and 449 nm from BDA; I don't know what engine out speed you all use for the 738 but it's hard for me to believe it's more than 425 knots. That's why I'm confused about the legality of the route.


Our engine-out speed on the 73 is .79/335, which translates into a 435 NM 60 minute flight distance. TALSU actually works because it is 362 NM from Grand Turk (MBGT.) I guess a better answer is the Caribbean geography in general, not just BDA, allows for non-ETOPS in this region. We do have a restriction not to fly east of L462 between 25N and 26N unless using Captain's emergency authority.


The issue is that I cannot do math. Thanks for setting me straight.
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uberflieger
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:49 pm

spinkid wrote:
DY is having success

Is that why they are discontinuing BOS? ;)

I don't know what Norwegian's game is, but highly doubt they've been successful enough to alter American or Air France's plans for the two French islands and much less so from PVD.
 
CanesFan
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 7:53 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
CanesFan wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:

The area I'm thinking of is just north of TALSU on L459 (between SHEIL and TALSU). TALSU is 389 nm from SJU and 449 nm from BDA; I don't know what engine out speed you all use for the 738 but it's hard for me to believe it's more than 425 knots. That's why I'm confused about the legality of the route.


Our engine-out speed on the 73 is .79/335, which translates into a 435 NM 60 minute flight distance. TALSU actually works because it is 362 NM from Grand Turk (MBGT.) I guess a better answer is the Caribbean geography in general, not just BDA, allows for non-ETOPS in this region. We do have a restriction not to fly east of L462 between 25N and 26N unless using Captain's emergency authority.


The issue is that I cannot do math. Thanks for setting me straight.


It's the difference between true airspeed vs indicated airspeed/mach. At altitude the aircraft's true airspeed is higher than the indicated airspeed, but decreases as the aircraft descends. During this high speed descent, you will fly more miles than what the indicated airspeed suggests. This is how they come up with the calculations. I could be cruising at FL 370 at .78 mach, indicating 250 knots and have a true airspeed of 450 knots.
 
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spinotter
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:11 pm

LAX772LR wrote:
catiii wrote:
Got it. Went right over my head, admittedly.

No worries.

Just peek into any thread that has ATL or DTW in the title... you'll get to see the real thing, live. ;)


Best comment I've seen for a while. And actually if you told him that DTW has far more airline service than it deserves (Eight Mile Road, etc.) thanks to DL, he would deny it to his dying day!
 
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lesfalls
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 8:14 pm

uberflieger wrote:
spinkid wrote:
DY is having success

Is that why they are discontinuing BOS? ;)

I don't know what Norwegian's game is, but highly doubt they've been successful enough to alter American or Air France's plans for the two French islands and much less so from PVD.

It makes more sense for them to fly out of PVD anyway as they have a base there now and plus they have their name a bit out there now too so they'll be saving some money by flying to PVD over BOS(with the slots). If it was such a failure then DY would have given up flying to Massachusetts/Rhode Island all together.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
xdlx
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:31 pm

The ONLY way this works is if they fly the MIA SCHED 4 days a week and the ATL 2 days a week with one day for MTC.
Block times from PTP/FDF to ATL and back will exceed 8-9h when they fly the route, they use those planes to fly to OTHER points also, so unless they add frames to the network I do not see how to extract 18-20h of block time from present schedules.
 
guyanam
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:38 am

uberflieger wrote:
spinkid wrote:
DY is having success

Is that why they are discontinuing BOS? ;)

I don't know what Norwegian's game is, but highly doubt they've been successful enough to alter American or Air France's plans for the two French islands and much less so from PVD.


.DY is the largest provider of seats from the USA to PTP/FDF during the winter. AA is down to 1X from MIA and AF offers way fewer seats once the allocation to PAP from MIA is excluded. I think that DY sets the terms on the USA PTP/FDF during the winter. More flights, more seats and more cities. And almost daily to PTP from JFK.
 
aeropix
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Sat Jul 01, 2017 4:44 am

and where is Delta's Moral Outrage at the invasion of foreign carriers stealing the flying right out of their Atlanta fortress hub! Its totally outrageous and unacceptable! Get congress to shut this thing down now!!

Oh, I forgot, Air France is not one of the ME3, so its all good. Nevermind...
 
Sightseer
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:51 pm

aeropix wrote:
and where is Delta's Moral Outrage at the invasion of foreign carriers stealing the flying right out of their Atlanta fortress hub! Its totally outrageous and unacceptable! Get congress to shut this thing down now!!

Oh, I forgot, Air France is not one of the ME3, so its all good. Nevermind...


You also forgot that DL has a far stronger working relationship with AF than it does with just about any other airline on the planet.
 
raylee67
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:15 pm

bomber996 wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
Whats the special Caribbean config?


No kidding! https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_F ... eriors.php

Peace :box:


Not bad with the 10C+150Y config. I would have thought the Caribbean config would be 186Y high density.
319/20/21 332/33 342/43/45 359/51 388 707 717 732/36/3G/38/39 74R/42/43/44/4E/48 757 762/63 772/7L/73/7W 788/89 D10 M80 135/40/45 175/90 DH1/4 CRJ/R7 L10
AY LH OU SR BA FI LX
AA DL UA NW AC CP WS FL NK PD
CI NH SQ KA CX JL BR OZ TG KE CA CZ NZ JQ RS
 
guyanam
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:11 pm

raylee67 wrote:
bomber996 wrote:
lesfalls wrote:
Whats the special Caribbean config?


No kidding! https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_F ... eriors.php

Peace :box:


Not bad with the 10C+150Y config. I would have thought the Caribbean config would be 186Y high density.


The MIA PAP sector gets some premium traffic as apparently some Haitian elites think that the AA crews are too disrespectful. At least so I have been told. A good chunk of the CAY FDF/PTP might be business or official travel.
 
goldorak
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:03 am

AF773 wrote:
I always wondered why AF's inter-Caribbean A320 service uses MIA as there US port of entry.

One of the reason is that the flight stops in PAP and PAP-MIA has a very significant traffic (competing with AA).
 
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Aesma
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Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:53 am

airbazar wrote:
csavel wrote:
It does in as much that the fact that Martinique and Guadeloupe are NOT Schengen might have the suits running to their lawyers to make sure any JV agreement covers any possible extenuating circumcstances. That Schengen thing DOES mean flying from the US to Martinique isn't exactly like flying from the US to Lyon as a practical matter. How different? Dunno, not a lawyer, but I can imagine that it is possible that it does actually make a difference somewhere in the fine print.

It makes a difference only if the market was not explicitly outlined in the JV agreement, which I don't know. We don't know. For simplicity reasons we only hear the term "Transatlantic JV", but it could be much wider than just transatlantic.
As far as your other comment, flying from the US to Martinique is EXACTLY like flying from the US to Lyon. As stated above, Schengen does not mean anything here. The Schengen agreement basically refers to the elimination of borders among participating countries. It's only relevant if you're traveling between 2 Schengen countries. Since the U.S. is not a Schengen country, flying from the US to Martinique is EXACTLY like flying from the US to Lyon.


For people it makes no difference. For goods it does, there are plenty of special rules (to avoid the travel of parasites, mosquitoes etc.), and various taxes.

This applies to French citizens also : I can travel to the French Caribbean with a simple national ID card (also to EU countries for that matter, and even some other countries) but will still have to go through customs.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
vpat48
Posts: 31
Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:30 am

Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:43 pm

The AJC is reporting that these routes start on November 21st.


http://airport.blog.ajc.com/2017/07/25/ ... e-flights/
 
jetero
Posts: 4673
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:35 pm

vpat48 wrote:
The AJC is reporting that these routes start on November 21st.


http://airport.blog.ajc.com/2017/07/25/ ... e-flights/


Ooooooo, a 170-seat Euro-style A320--sign me up!
 
ATLJRV
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:39 pm

Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:26 pm

Trying to book this route in November or December with no luck. Appears the route will be seasonal.
 
Blerg
Posts: 4261
Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:42 am

Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:10 pm

What's their Caribbean product like? Is it the same as the European one?
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26286
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: Air France will launch Atlanta from Guadeloupe and Martinique

Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:14 pm

ATLJRV wrote:
Trying to book this route in November or December with no luck. Appears the route will be seasonal.


Or just discontinued. That’s in season for this.
a.

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