FlyUSAir
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:47 pm

dz09 wrote:
how is this impacting the flying public? Do these companies want a monopoly over international travel so that they can screw us like they're doing on domestic travel. last I checked they're making record profits. what more do they want? I for one travel exclusively with United and star alliance airlines but I don't mind competition to keep prices under control.


Yes and yes. There end game is to be the only airline out there so they can charge you $600 to fly from NYC to Chicago and $5,000 to fly from NYC to London. I am not being sarcastic, this is what they want.
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kasimir
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:52 pm

TigerFlyer wrote:
Third, the reason DL no longer serves India with its own metal is a direct result of subsidized competition by the Gulf carriers, and of course Air India itself. Those were viable and profitable routes, where DL had made substantial investments. But no longer. You deploy your assets where you can make money. Simple as that.


Thats BS, they mentioned in the video that their customers are asking for flights to India and like I said before, I cannot imagine that the Delta customer prefers a one stop connection in the middle east (or be it with an Euro airline somewhere in EU) over a non-stop connection from an east coast US city. They shouldn't have a problem to fill a 787 sized plane to India and make some $$$. How do think the LH group, IAG etc are still alive and flying the same routes? Sure they had better (more profitable) times before the ME3, but competition is good and in the end if the customer wins, I am all for it?

TigerFlyer wrote:
Fourth, Singapore was a well run and profitable airline. It did not depend on its government to keep in business.


Just some facts on this one (peel the onion):
- Singapore Airlines is owned 56% (voting stock) by Temasek Holdings
- Temasek Holdings Private Limited (abbreviated as Temasek) is a state-owned holding company that can be characterized as a national wealth fund owned by the Government of Singapore.
- Latest example: On 9 February 2017, Singapore Airlines signed a letter of intent to purchase 39 aircraft - 20 Boeing 777-9 and an additional 19 Boeing 787-10. The deal also includes options for 12 more aircraft. The proposed order is valued at US$13.8 billion.
- The Singapore Government (and key figures) have repeatedly intervened on behalf of Singapore Airlines
- Changi Airport is owned by the Government of Singapore
- Changi just announced an airport expansion of $1.7b and has invested tens of billions of $$$ over the past years in the airport

By the way Emirates is also a very profitable airline, so? But like some have mentioned it is nice to have a wealthy government to fall back to in case shit happens, just like in the US you have the chapter 11 laws.

Like i mentioned I have my question marks with Etihad and Qatar, but Emirates is nothing than a bigger Singapore Airlines with an even better strategic location. The only question remains how sustainable is their business model if their will be a slow down in the global economy.
 
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kasimir
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:54 pm

FlyUSAir wrote:
dz09 wrote:
how is this impacting the flying public? Do these companies want a monopoly over international travel so that they can screw us like they're doing on domestic travel. last I checked they're making record profits. what more do they want? I for one travel exclusively with United and star alliance airlines but I don't mind competition to keep prices under control.


Yes and yes. There end game is to be the only airline out there so they can charge you $600 to fly from NYC to Chicago and $5,000 to fly from NYC to London. I am not being sarcastic, this is what they want.


WOW, just wow ... Its time to get the tin foil hats out... I am out of here
 
Armodeen
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:47 am

danj555 wrote:
I'm an American. I hate propaganda. Sure they are getting money from the government. Who hasn't? You're telling me none of the US3 has received a penny from the govt? Besides, they are trying to play catch up with the other blue chip players out there. You don't see Europe's airlines making videos like this and waging war against the ME3. Man up honestly. AA has more planes that the entire ME3 combined, hell, each of the US3 have more planes that the entire ME3 combined. And the US3 make more money that anyone, anywhere. Bunch of babies.


This. I'm disappointed with DL because I actually like flying them and they have a very solid product. Why they have to resort to this crybabyism is beyond me.

I suppose because it works, we have seen time and time again with recent global elections etc that joe public doesn't care about facts and believes anything they are told.
 
sxf24
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:58 am

TigerFlyer wrote:
sassiciai wrote:
That's the best laugh I could have tonight - an entire series of juvenile BS, by someone who cant make up his own mind when fed corporate crap on a spoon! I cant think which statement is the most stupid, but serially is a good start!


Okay, so what, specifically do you take issue with? Do you not understand the nature of subsidy, and that the US vigorously enforces against it in every industry except aviation? Go back and listen to the comments of Charlene Barchevsky. The former head of USTR, lead trade representative of the United States.


Charlene Barchevsky was paid to read a script written by Delta.
 
IPFreely
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:17 am

TigerFlyer wrote:
Go back and listen to the comments of Charlene Barchevsky. The former head of USTR, lead trade representative of the United States.


Former trade representative. Currently she is a senior partner with Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr, a law firm retained by Delta for legal work and lobbying. A firm that has received $510,000 for lobbying from Delta over the past five years:

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/firmsu ... &year=2017

Pay a lawyer $510,000 and they'll say pretty much anything you want. Her credibility is zero.
 
horsepowerchef
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:08 am

That video is Fox News levels of propaganda.
 
VX321
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:00 am

What a terrible piece of propaganda. DL should be ashamed of this video. Everyone knows the ME3 are not profitable.Of those 3, EK is probably the most financially sound but I highly doubt they are turning a profit (unless they are paying their employees just pennies). I find it ironic that the video shows an SQ plane.SQ is partially state owned and so is AF-KLM group. (The group is approx. 20% owned by the French state-https://www.economie.gouv.fr/agence-participations-etat/Les-participations-publiques)
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:13 am

VX321 wrote:
What a terrible piece of propaganda. DL should be ashamed of this video. Everyone knows the ME3 are not profitable.Of those 3, EK is probably the most financially sound but I highly doubt they are turning a profit (unless they are paying their employees just pennies).


Emirates is profitable, according to their audited financial statements.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:03 am

VX321 wrote:
... (unless they are paying their employees just pennies)....


They do pay pennies to their crew, which helps to make money, still attracting employees with their brand. But that's business, ashaming propaganda is no interested in competition, just in save their asses and keep their poor product as first line status quo.
 
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scbriml
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:29 am

A company that made over $7billion profit last year is whining about "unfair competition"? My giveacrapometer isn't even flickering. :rotfl:

dz09 wrote:
how is this impacting the flying public?


They get choice and competition on many international routes. Something the US3 would rather they didn't.

TigerFlyer wrote:
Fourth, Singapore was a well run and profitable airline. It did not depend on its government to keep in business.


Hmm, maybe you should read a bit more about SQ.

TigerFlyer wrote:
First, a chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding is very different from having an open government checkbook. It is a painful and difficult process resulting in losses for shareholders, creditors, and employees.


You missed his point completely! You claimed that US airlines are the "most efficient in the World". David_itl asked, if that's the case, how come so many have been in Ch 11 (some multiple times!) Clearly not that efficient. :wink2:
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SomebodyInTLS
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:03 pm

kasimir wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:
dz09 wrote:
how is this impacting the flying public? Do these companies want a monopoly over international travel so that they can screw us like they're doing on domestic travel. last I checked they're making record profits. what more do they want? I for one travel exclusively with United and star alliance airlines but I don't mind competition to keep prices under control.


Yes and yes. There end game is to be the only airline out there so they can charge you $600 to fly from NYC to Chicago and $5,000 to fly from NYC to London. I am not being sarcastic, this is what they want.


WOW, just wow ... Its time to get the tin foil hats out... I am out of here


I could be wrong, but I read the above as market domination was the end-goal of the US3 - I think you thought it referred to the ME3.
"As with most things related to aircraft design, it's all about the trade-offs and much more nuanced than A.net likes to make out."
 
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Jayafe
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:04 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:

I could be wrong, but I read the above as market domination was the end-goal of the US3 - I think you thought it referred to the ME3.


Market domination was actually the goal of US3. They are just crying because someone is doing better...
 
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kasimir
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:33 pm

SomebodyInTLS wrote:
kasimir wrote:
FlyUSAir wrote:

Yes and yes. There end game is to be the only airline out there so they can charge you $600 to fly from NYC to Chicago and $5,000 to fly from NYC to London. I am not being sarcastic, this is what they want.


WOW, just wow ... Its time to get the tin foil hats out... I am out of here


I could be wrong, but I read the above as market domination was the end-goal of the US3 - I think you thought it referred to the ME3.


Thats true, I thought the ME3 was meant, but even the same statement for the US3 is ludicrous. The US market is so splintered up with the 3 legacy carriers plus the LCC carriers (Soutwest etc) and the "premium" LCC carriers (Jetblue, Virgin America etc...). The US3 would have no wiggling room to push prices up, because this will force instant competition from inside the US!
Then for as long as I can remember the Euro & Asia carriers gave the US3 some good competition and usually it was the US3 that were trying to undercut the Euro competition before the ME3 competition got serious.
As long as I can remember, a transatlantic coach ticket has never ever cost even close to $5000, even with oil prices far above $100/bbl around 10 years ago. Even flying transatlantic as a child in the 80s, I remember that ticket prices where roughly 50-100% higher then they are today.

So eliminating the ME3 and going back to the good old days (like some would like to see), would not change anything for the simple fact that the airline business has become a low margin "cash cow" business, where they fight over every cent and times are long gone where pilots got huge salaries and being a flight attendant was a prestige job. And this race to the bottom was started by the LCC that emerged in the US of A.
 
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lh346
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:09 pm

Is this politically influenced message and stance Delta is taking here or is it just the case of "But hey, I'm just one person and this is my opinion." Goes much deeper than that in my neophyte opinion. So then why would an airline choose to enter the political fray? Things blow over, administrations eventually change, customers ma/or may not appreciate this...I can't help to think that one a company goes political on an issue it's next to impossible to go back.
Also, in the video the former Secretary of Transportation, Edward Bastain Delta Airlines CEO, and a handful of other speak out about their perceived threat from the Gulf carriers. Doug Parker, American Airlines CEO, speaks out as well but to a lesser degree. That can probably be explained by the fact that this is a Delta narrative but how exactly do other US carriers feel about this. What is United's opinion for example?
 
BelAviaFan
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:53 pm

BelAviaFan: Belgian Aviation Fan
 
Planesmart
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:56 pm

Negative politics have quickly got old. DL needs to be careful not to be seen and heard in the same group. Do something new, bold and positive for customers and staff.
 
IPFreely
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:56 pm

lh346 wrote:
So then why would an airline choose to enter the political fray? Things blow over, administrations eventually change, customers ma/or may not appreciate this..


They're not entering the political fray and this video is not aimed at customers. The title of the video is: "Brainwashing Employees on Gulf Carrier Subsidies". It's part of the prep work for more outsourcing and inevitable layoffs that are coming soon. The hope is that Delta employees will be gullible enough to believe that the ME3 are to blame for job losses and pay cuts instead of management trying to increase this quarter's or this year's earnings.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:21 pm

IPFreely wrote:
lh346 wrote:
So then why would an airline choose to enter the political fray? Things blow over, administrations eventually change, customers ma/or may not appreciate this..


They're not entering the political fray and this video is not aimed at customers. The title of the video is: "Brainwashing Employees on Gulf Carrier Subsidies". It's part of the prep work for more outsourcing and inevitable layoffs that are coming soon. The hope is that Delta employees will be gullible enough to believe that the ME3 are to blame for job losses and pay cuts instead of management trying to increase this quarter's or this year's earnings.


Which will probably happen, as even here in a.net a good number of posters also claim for the "subsided monsters of the desert"....
 
alfa164
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:08 am

jnev3289 wrote:
jeffrey1970 wrote:
I think over all it was smart of Delta to make this video. It likely will not have a huge effect, but overall it could encourage Delta passengers to stick with Delta, and stay away from the ME3. I think that the best thing that Delta can do keep giving people a great customer experience from the beginning when they make their reservations until the end when they step off the airplane and collect their luggage.

Yep, nothing says "great" like a flight on the MD80/90 or B717. That's treating customers right!*
*Unless there's weather and it takes an entire work week to reaccommodate everyone

If I had Chester on my tail, I wouldn't be making snide remarks about other airlines this week... how is that Horizon operation working out for you? :roll:
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jnev3289
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:08 am

alfa164 wrote:
jnev3289 wrote:
jeffrey1970 wrote:
I think over all it was smart of Delta to make this video. It likely will not have a huge effect, but overall it could encourage Delta passengers to stick with Delta, and stay away from the ME3. I think that the best thing that Delta can do keep giving people a great customer experience from the beginning when they make their reservations until the end when they step off the airplane and collect their luggage.

Yep, nothing says "great" like a flight on the MD80/90 or B717. That's treating customers right!*
*Unless there's weather and it takes an entire work week to reaccommodate everyone

If I had Chester on my tail, I wouldn't be making snide remarks about other airlines this week... how is that Horizon operation working out for you? :roll:

https://newsroom.alaskaair.com/awards?item=29934

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777
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:43 pm

Have you noticed that only Al Baker appears in the video (and obviously only when wearing his traditional Arabian dress), while neither Hogan nor Clark are there and this because obviously both of them are anglo-saxons and the message to the Americans would have been less "dramatic"?

No mention, obviously, to the thousand of Americans that work for the ME3 in US and abroad.

Not a good example of communication, IMHO:
 
TSA125
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:09 pm

dmstorm22 wrote:
30 seconds in, Ed Bastian says "they've [taken over the market] in Asia, done it in Europe, done it in Australia, and the next stop for [the ME3] is to do it in the US." Even if they are being propped-up by their government, how exactly are they going to do it in the US?

Unless there is some fear that somehow the ME3 is going to start flying domestic routes, isn't this mostly a smokescreen.

Are they going to waste valuable EU slots flying 2x/day TATL flights? The US is the one market that from an O&D perspective is quite well insulated from the ME3, apart from South Asia and some more budget-conscious US-Africa & US-Asia passengers - markets that the US3 don't really serve directly anyway.

Sure, Delta may be terrified on the impact the ME3 is having on its JV partners, but Delta itself is well positioned. Maybe they're losing VFR Indian passengers that they would feed through CDG/AMS to the ME3, but UA (and even moreso AI) have shown overflying the ME3 is an option.

This was a ridiculous video highlighting a, as of now, baseless claim. Very surprised DL would stoop to this.


This is spot on! Unless the US3 is freaking out about losing their flights to India or about EK's two relatively irrelevant TATL flights, there really isn't all that much else it needs to worry about. "Insulated" perfectly describes their position relative to the other markets mentioned in the video. This is purely a PR stint to antagonize the ME3.
No not that TSA.
 
N212R
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:31 pm

IPFreely wrote:

They're not entering the political fray and this video is not aimed at customers.


Their CEO is a former Cabinet member. They hire a former US Trade Representative to be their mouthpiece. Nothing political to be seen here. :lol:
 
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OA412
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:55 pm

I couldn't get through most of the video because I don't have the time right now, but the US carriers are barking up the wrong tree here. Maybe I'd feel sorry for them if they weren't raking in billions in profits each year. Consolidation essentially Chapter 7/liquidation-proofed AA, UA, and DL. There's not a scenario under which I can realistically envision any one of them going under because A) their largest market is not open to foreign competition and B) those three are so large, if any of them were to even get close to going under, they'd be bailed out, they're too important to the US economy. The whining from DL and UA (I can't recall similar whining from AA recently) is old and stale.
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TigerFlyer
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:00 pm

Ah, this thread has run its course.

Either you understand that $50b in ongoing subsidies to foreign competitors is a problem, or you don't.
 
IPFreely
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:22 pm

N212R wrote:
IPFreely wrote:

They're not entering the political fray and this video is not aimed at customers.


Their CEO is a former Cabinet member. They hire a former US Trade Representative to be their mouthpiece. Nothing political to be seen here. :lol:


Not entering the political fray means Delta is not intended to influence politicians to do anything. As the title states, the video is intended to brainwash employees into blaming the ME3 for continued outsourcing and job losses instead of blaming Delta's management.

If the former US Trade Representative thought the ME3 were such a big problem then why did she do nothing about it when she was the US Trade Representative? Was she incompetent? Or is she just saying what she's told to say in exchange for money now? There's no third option.
 
David_itl
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:24 pm

TigerFlyer wrote:
Ah, this thread has run its course.

Either you understand that $50b in ongoing subsidies to foreign competitors is a problem, or you don't.


Either you have the proof of the alleged subsidies or you don't The jury spoke and there's no evidence.
 
Galwayman
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:33 pm

US3 are not world class airlines , they just want to restrict choice and push price up . And a lot of those aircraft are made in Seattle .... time for the US to grow up and play fair
 
IPFreely
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:59 pm

David_itl wrote:
Either you have the proof of the alleged subsidies or you don't The jury spoke and there's no evidence.


He wouldn't make a statement like that without proof. I'm sure he'll be sharing the proof on here shortly.
 
TigerFlyer
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:13 pm

David_itl wrote:
TigerFlyer wrote:
Ah, this thread has run its course.

Either you understand that $50b in ongoing subsidies to foreign competitors is a problem, or you don't.


Either you have the proof of the alleged subsidies or you don't The jury spoke and there's no evidence.


There's really no question that the ME3 are heavily subsidized and that 2 of 3 would not be in business but for ongoing subsidies. http://www.openandfairskies.com/subsidies/

The problem is that of remedies. WTO does not apply to airlines. The US maintains a large military base in Qatar, and the UAE is an important ally. So, renouncing the bilaterals and starting over is difficult.

As for service quality, with equivalent subsidy levels the US3 could provide equal levels of service.

The problem arises when you have government states competing with market based companies.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:22 pm

TigerFlyer wrote:
David_itl wrote:
TigerFlyer wrote:
...Either you understand that $50b in ongoing subsidies to foreign competitors is a problem, or you don't.


Either you have the proof of the alleged subsidies or you don't The jury spoke and there's no evidence.


There's really no question that the ME3 are heavily subsidized and that 2 of 3 would not be in business but for ongoing subsidies. http://www.openandfairskies.com/subsidies/



Your source is the website of the people who created the video?

Say it with me: "No, I don't have any proof" :stirthepot: It doesn't hurt that much in loud voice...

TigerFlyer wrote:
As for service quality, with equivalent subsidy levels the US3 could provide equal levels of service.


Like selling tickets to people and then kicking them out of the planes?
 
TigerFlyer
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:06 pm

Jayafe wrote:
TigerFlyer wrote:
David_itl wrote:

Either you have the proof of the alleged subsidies or you don't The jury spoke and there's no evidence.


There's really no question that the ME3 are heavily subsidized and that 2 of 3 would not be in business but for ongoing subsidies. http://www.openandfairskies.com/subsidies/



Your source is the website of the people who created the video?

Say it with me: "No, I don't have any proof" :stirthepot: It doesn't hurt that much in loud voice...

TigerFlyer wrote:
As for service quality, with equivalent subsidy levels the US3 could provide equal levels of service.


Like selling tickets to people and then kicking them out of the planes?


Umm so, having seen the proof compiled by some of the best international accounting and law firms in the world, what specifically would you claim is factually incorrect?
 
IPFreely
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:25 pm

IPFreely wrote:
David_itl wrote:
Either you have the proof of the alleged subsidies or you don't The jury spoke and there's no evidence.


He wouldn't make a statement like that without proof. I'm sure he'll be sharing the proof on here shortly.


I stand corrected. He has no proof.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:47 pm

TigerFlyer wrote:
Umm so, having seen the proof compiled by some of the best international accounting and law firms in the world, what specifically would you claim is factually incorrect?


So using a website from a group who is lobbying for the cause is a proof of charge? Hello? Scientific method?
 
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scbriml
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:57 pm

TigerFlyer wrote:
Umm so, having seen the proof compiled by some of the best international accounting and law firms in the world, what specifically would you claim is factually incorrect?


Using that logic, EK's annual report proves they don't receive subsidies.
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RL777
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:04 pm

The US3 don't and shouldn't have an argument here, the ME3 don't even exist within the majority of their operating environment (Domestic US), and adding to that, the ME3 funnel great numbers of passengers into the US and onto their domestic flights all while purchasing and heavily supporting Boeing products thus keeping many American aerospace jobs filled and available. If anybody should take an issue with the supposed subsidies its the big European and Asian carriers such as LH,BA, CX etc....who compete directly with EK much more frequently.
 
manny
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:17 pm

If an Asian airline like say Cathay Pacific or Singapore Airlines would have done something like this, the world media would be up in arms, calling them out for not being able to withstand competition. But if Delta does it, its all good.

This is a new low for Delta. Our companies have so become used to being oligopolies with not very meaningful competition that the slightest semblance of competition and these very same business executives who go around the world preaching the benefits of free market, suddenly turn into cry babies.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:36 pm

David_itl wrote:
TigerFlyer wrote:
Ah, this thread has run its course.

Either you understand that $50b in ongoing subsidies to foreign competitors is a problem, or you don't.


Either you have the proof of the alleged subsidies or you don't The jury spoke and there's no evidence.


There is more than enough circumstantial evidence. If these were well run commercial airlines, they should be doing better with ATF prices at its lowest.

Even historical worst performers are able break-even now. Well run airlines should be printing money. Why are they sinking?

BTW there is no jury in an autocracy,

Also, this is an internal video, the public shouldn't be commenting on it. I am sure STC tells his employees, we have to be fair to our competitors, don't dump capacity, don't lower prices, correct? Wait, AFAIK, he doesn't even talk to his own employees.
 
IPFreely
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Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:16 am

manny wrote:
If an Asian airline like say Cathay Pacific or Singapore Airlines would have done something like this, the world media would be up in arms, calling them out for not being able to withstand competition. But if Delta does it, its all good.


Almost nobody thinks all is good, other than the more gullible ones in the target audience of employees. The vast majority consider the video to be an embarrassment for Delta.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:18 am

RL777 wrote:
The US3 don't and shouldn't have an argument here,


To be fair the US3 aren't arguing here. One of the three does not speak for the other two.
 
Ziyulu
Posts: 680
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2016 10:35 am

Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:39 am

As a consumer, I do not care about which airline is subsidized. I only care about service. So what if the Middle Eastern carriers get subsidies.
 
TigerFlyer
Posts: 194
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:51 pm

Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:48 am

Ziyulu wrote:
As a consumer, I do not care about which airline is subsidized. I only care about service. So what if the Middle Eastern carriers get subsidies.



Completely understandable. As a consumer you're going to pick the best product at the lowest cost. But, as a provider if your competitor is subsidized you cannot provide the same product at the same price. That's why it's a trade violation.

Not one critic has been able to cite a single factual inaccuracy in the video or the white paper.
 
[email protected]
Posts: 16616
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:05 am

Lol. There is no verifiable independent proof; just a document produced by a hugely biased party.

People would be marginally more sympathetic if a) the propaganda didn't begin in a period of record profits for US airlines and b) if US airlines weren't at the same time increasingly getting into bed with state-owned and state-subsidised Chinese airlines. But who can blame the US3 for wanting to increase their stranglehold?

No doubt TigerFlyer will be around shortly to give his DL plant explanation.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
User avatar
RL777
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:43 am

Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:34 am

IPFreely wrote:
RL777 wrote:
The US3 don't and shouldn't have an argument here,


To be fair the US3 aren't arguing here. One of the three does not speak for the other two.


I may have unfairly grouped the three in my post, however AA and UA have both partaken in critiquing the ME3 albeit DL has been by far the most vocal and outspoken.

Cheers.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7505
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:35 am

[email protected] wrote:
.. There is no verifiable independent proof; just a document produced by a hugely biased party...


You are 100% correct about self-audited/signed/certified financial reports. Zero value.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: DL releases anti-ME3 video

Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:11 am

[email protected] wrote:
No doubt TigerFlyer will be around shortly to give his DL plant explanation.


There is nothing to explain. In the opening moments of the video, Ed Bastian states that the ME3 have illegally received 50 billion dollars in government subsidies over the past ten years. And to prove this statement he provides no facts and no evidence. Just a quick pivot to "They're taking our jobs" which is the key message to Delta employees that more and more outsourcing is coming. To the tune of "1500 jobs per flight lost", lol. No mention of the flights and jobs lost to JV's with Korean, China Eastern, or others, not to mention all the poor DCI carriers.

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