Welcome to the July edition of the Australian Aviation Thread. Please continue add your comments below. Link to June edition viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1364669

Please note: Moderators have decided to let all country/regional aviation threads like this thread be a month long thread instead of the usual 200-250 post limit as per before

CZ to launch Guangzhou- Cairns flights in December. 3x weekly

http://www.cairnspost.com.au/busines...efa1f2179c4ee1

Hanian has applied for SZX-CNS from January so going to be a big year for CNS.
Big year for QLD from China thats for sure here are some rumours:

SZX-BNE
PEK-BNE
XMN-BNE??
TSN-CKG-BNE
CAN-CNS
SZX-CNS

First QR A380 to MEL today, A7-APE is operating the flight

I've noticed on my recent QF and VA flights that at the safety briefing they have added in that if you drop your phone don't try to move your seat, just ask for a crew members assistance. I wonder what's happened to get both airlines to add this?

VA82 wrote:

I've noticed on my recent QF and VA flights that at the safety briefing they have added in that if you drop your phone don't try to move your seat, just ask for a crew members assistance. I wonder what's happened to get both airlines to add this?

I would assume it's because of a recent facade of incidents of phones slipping out of their pockets and getting caught in the seat recline function, only to be crushed when the person unknowingly reclines. On a flight I took in January there was a bit of a squabble going on when a woman sat next to me dropped her phone and spent ages looking for it.

A couple of adjustments to Int flights from PER from today

QF71/72 will be operated by A332 in July on Tues, Wed, Sat & Sun

QR901 departure from PER which had been retimed from 2325 to 2305 when ban was first announced in June has now be retimed for departure time of 2155

angusjt wrote:

VA82 wrote:

I've noticed on my recent QF and VA flights that at the safety briefing they have added in that if you drop your phone don't try to move your seat, just ask for a crew members assistance. I wonder what's happened to get both airlines to add this?

I would assume it's because of a recent facade of incidents of phones slipping out of their pockets and getting caught in the seat recline function, only to be crushed when the person unknowingly reclines. On a flight I took in January there was a bit of a squabble going on when a woman sat next to me dropped her phone and spent ages looking for it.

Last year a passenger on a QF A380 lost their phone in a J class seat and then inadvertently crushed it when moving the seat, causing it to catch fire.

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/in ... -2016-051/

CX has had a similar warning in their safety video for a while, for the same reason.

Sorry not sure how to quote between threads

"Yes.

JB came darn closer to destroying the airline. In his fantasy of being better than Qantas (and kicking AJ in the nuts) JB burned through hundreds of millions of dollars of shareholder value and the airline was (is) only kept flying by the generosity of the major airline investors.

No matter the law, I thought t was a disgrace - that a supposedly Australian airline was kept flying, internationally, by foreign airlines. and it still isn't any better. Qantas is flying high financially and Virgin can hardly scrape together pennies.

Like others, I assumed that John Thomas would take over, but no - JB wins again. He's either got a golden tongue or he knows where ALL the skeletons are buried - LOL.

mariner"

I suppose the other option is that John Thomas has seen the patient and is refusing to operate. The parallels between VA and the late 90s days of AN seem to me increasing by the day. I feel sad about it, but airlines that loose big in the boom times like those recently past rarely survive in the mid term.

It looks to me that Tiger have quietly got their act together whilst VA is languishing in that dreaded middle, neither cheap nor premium. The corporate focused strategy which relied on a virtual network to Asia has failed, hence they're enter Hong Kong (which again feels very AN). The last data I saw on LAX load factors showed VA lagging with JV Partner DL plus AA both around a healthy 87%.

If they can get a credible Asian schedule to boost corporate share, get their economy product sorted to match QF so they can charge the same price, maybe it might help?

Ryanair01 wrote:

I suppose the other option is that John Thomas has seen the patient and is refusing to operate. The parallels between VA and the late 90s days of AN seem to me increasing by the day. I feel sad about it, but airlines that loose big in the boom times like those recently past rarely survive in the mid term.

Thomas no doubt realised why should he be one of the fall guys in he advent of failure. Let JB take all the responsibility. I would have liked to be a fly on the wall when Luxon was explaining JB's shortcomings to his Board in preparation for NZ's withdrawal from VA.

Quick note.
FJ operated its first ADL flight yesterday, bit of fan fare at the terminal.
Also, saw today that VA Regional A320 operated PER-ADL this afternoon. Managed to get down to the airport to see it. Since when do they use this equipment going east?

My thoughts exactly.

If we look at the constitution of the board, there are enough headaches there alone, never mind the added pressures of VA's current position within the market place and its financial standing. Any new CEO would have a hard time just making a decision, never mind taking the airline forward.

I'd suggest another scenario of one of the major airline shareholders taking the airline private. I just can't see VA plodding along, as is, for the foreseeable future. They would simply be in the same position the old Virgin Blue was in 7-8 years ago!

Taking the airline private won't solve their issues. For instance, I'm still confused as to what I'm expecting every time I board a VA flight. Will I get 2 bird seeds as a meal or a pie? How slow will it be to check in a bag when I arrive at the airport?

I would also take John Thomas' resignation as there's more bad news coming for VA. While the cost cuts will start to funnel through soon, they'll also be dealing with less revenue especially when they move more planes to TT.

QF is investing quite a bit of money in the tech space, R&D and have are more agile across their business. I find it difficult to see how VA is going to catch up.

When is QF getting around to painting more planes into the revised livery? They're awfully slow at this.

ben175 wrote:

When is QF getting around to painting more planes into the revised livery? They're awfully slow at this.

VH-VXM has been in SIN since working QF77 on Friday. There is speculation on another site this was for a repaint.

ben175 wrote:

When is QF getting around to painting more planes into the revised livery? They're awfully slow at this.

Well they have approximately 2 years, 5 months, 29 days to have the entire fleet updated.

“Updating branding on aircraft will be sequenced with scheduled re-paints, to be completed in time for the airline’s centenary in 2020.”

EK413

Noticed in the OAG thread that QF is reducing MEL-LAX flights next Feb and March. 1.6 daily rotations should be 11 weekly flights.

RyanairGuru wrote:

Noticed in the OAG thread that QF is reducing MEL-LAX flights next Feb and March. 1.6 daily rotations should be 11 weekly flights.

I remember a while back they said reduce 13 to 12 weekly for a short period.

SYD-YVR is in again ATM for the season, started a few days ago.

I noticed on another site comments like "JetBlu are wanting to get rid of the E190". Anyone know anything of this??

[*]

TN486 wrote:

I noticed on another site comments like "JetBlu are wanting to get rid of the E190". Anyone know anything of this??

The E190 is a dispatch nightmare for B6. While their reliability with the type has steadily improved over the past decade, the E190 still requires about 1:20 operation spare to flying fleet compared to about 1:50 for the A320. Air Canada's experience is much the same which is why they are drawing down the E190 fleet. While I haven't heard anything specific, I am led to believe that VA have similar issues, with the dispatch reliability for the E190 in their operation much lower than the 737 fleet.

ZK-NBT wrote:

RyanairGuru wrote:

Noticed in the OAG thread that QF is reducing MEL-LAX flights next Feb and March. 1.6 daily rotations should be 11 weekly flights.

I remember a while back they said reduce 13 to 12 weekly for a short period.

Correct for May and June 18

http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... ght=qantas

EK413 wrote:

Well they have approximately 2 years, 5 months, 29 days to have the entire fleet updated.

“Updating branding on aircraft will be sequenced with scheduled re-paints, to be completed in time for the airline’s centenary in 2020.”

The centenary isn't until November 2020 so they actually have more than 3 years to go. Still hard to see how that is achievable given they've done 3 frames in 6 months, maybe the reaction hasn't been as positive as they were hoping.

qf002 wrote:

EK413 wrote:

Well they have approximately 2 years, 5 months, 29 days to have the entire fleet updated.

“Updating branding on aircraft will be sequenced with scheduled re-paints, to be completed in time for the airline’s centenary in 2020.”

The centenary isn't until November 2020 so they actually have more than 3 years to go. Still hard to see how that is achievable given they've done 3 frames in 6 months, maybe the reaction hasn't been as positive as they were hoping.

Cheers thanks for pointing out my error.

I'd say the slow rollout of the new livery is due to the high frame utilisation and that's why I doubt the entire fleet will be completed by 2020.

EK413

EK413 wrote:

qf002 wrote:

EK413 wrote:

Well they have approximately 2 years, 5 months, 29 days to have the entire fleet updated.

“Updating branding on aircraft will be sequenced with scheduled re-paints, to be completed in time for the airline’s centenary in 2020.”

The centenary isn't until November 2020 so they actually have more than 3 years to go. Still hard to see how that is achievable given they've done 3 frames in 6 months, maybe the reaction hasn't been as positive as they were hoping.

Cheers thanks for pointing out my error.

I'd say the slow rollout of the new livery is due to the high frame utilisation and that's why I doubt the entire fleet will be completed by 2020.

EK413

Not to mention that much of the 737 fleet is still operating under the livery which is from the 90s. Impossible by 2020 on that basis.

ben175 wrote:

When is QF getting around to painting more planes into the revised livery? They're awfully slow at this.

Hey guys,
I have another possible (though I believe unlikely) explanation ....

* a 'reconsideration' of the new livery has taken place, specifically its 'details', by QF management: could that have paused the repainting of the fleet?
* no new Qantaslink livery announced yet: is this evidence of a possible 'reconsideration' of the QF livery overall with QLink waiting for the outcome before revealing its variation of the new livery?

This scenario was suggested to me about six - eight weeks ago... I guess we will all know when VH-VXM rolls out in Singapore sometime soon!

However, if it IS in the same livery (and same 'details') as the three A330s currently buzzing around in their new plumage, we will never know IF QF did in fact pause and reflect before committing again to the new scheme.

Ahhh the intrigue of it all! But I believe the answer is simple: incredibly high utilisation of the fleet and no planes (mainline or Link) scheduled to be repainted in the past few months - easy!

Cheers
Bunumuring

bunumuring wrote:

ben175 wrote:

When is QF getting around to painting more planes into the revised livery? They're awfully slow at this.

Hey guys,
I have another possible (though I believe unlikely) explanation ....

* a 'reconsideration' of the new livery has taken place, specifically its 'details', by QF management: could that have paused the repainting of the fleet?
* no new Qantaslink livery announced yet: is this evidence of a possible 'reconsideration' of the QF livery overall with QLink waiting for the outcome before revealing its variation of the new livery?

This scenario was suggested to me about six - eight weeks ago... I guess we will all know when VH-VXM rolls out in Singapore sometime soon!

However, if it IS in the same livery (and same 'details') as the three A330s currently buzzing around in their new plumage, we will never know IF QF did in fact pause and reflect before committing again to the new scheme.

Ahhh the intrigue of it all! But I believe the answer is simple: incredibly high utilisation of the fleet and no planes (mainline or Link) scheduled to be repainted in the past few months - easy!

Cheers
Bunumuring

Definitely down to frame utilisation.

Could we have a DL episode on our hands?

EK413

I'm sure we'll put this to rest once their first 787 is rolled out.

The new branding is everywhere on it's marketing, financial products, and they do have new branding ready for QFFreight and QFLink. It's too much of an expensive process for QF to roll it out quick, and it's just not the planes. While it'll be cute to have all the planes repainted in their new logo by their 100th birthday, I doubt it'll happen.

Hmm, perhaps we should kick off a QF repaint thread

EK413

bunumuring wrote:

ben175 wrote:

When is QF getting around to painting more planes into the revised livery? They're awfully slow at this.

Hey guys,
I have another possible (though I believe unlikely) explanation ....

* a 'reconsideration' of the new livery has taken place, specifically its 'details', by QF management: could that have paused the repainting of the fleet?
* no new Qantaslink livery announced yet: is this evidence of a possible 'reconsideration' of the QF livery overall with QLink waiting for the outcome before revealing its variation of the new livery?

This scenario was suggested to me about six - eight weeks ago... I guess we will all know when VH-VXM rolls out in Singapore sometime soon!

However, if it IS in the same livery (and same 'details') as the three A330s currently buzzing around in their new plumage, we will never know IF QF did in fact pause and reflect before committing again to the new scheme.

Ahhh the intrigue of it all! But I believe the answer is simple: incredibly high utilisation of the fleet and no planes (mainline or Link) scheduled to be repainted in the past few months - easy!

Cheers
Bunumuring

QantasLink livery would take about 5 minutes to knock up with MS Paint 1995; it'll be exactly the same but with "LINK" added in red in the same font. I really think you are reading too much into this. I agree with EK413, high utilisation means that Qantas doesn't have enough slack in the fleet to take an aircraft out of service for any longer than absolutely neccessary.

RyanairGuru wrote:

[*]

TN486 wrote:

I noticed on another site comments like "JetBlu are wanting to get rid of the E190". Anyone know anything of this??

The E190 is a dispatch nightmare for B6. While their reliability with the type has steadily improved over the past decade, the E190 still requires about 1:20 operation spare to flying fleet compared to about 1:50 for the A320. Air Canada's experience is much the same which is why they are drawing down the E190 fleet. While I haven't heard anything specific, I am led to believe that VA have similar issues, with the dispatch reliability for the E190 in their operation much lower than the 737 fleet.

Thank you. I flew in a 190 Melbourne to Canberra some years ago, and returned in a 737-700. The E190 was yummy, the 700?? At least I logged it!!

On the topic of ERJs - when they got rid of the 170s (to DL (for the most part) I think) I remember reading somewhere that one of the VA execs said that they couldn't get any of their models to show them operating profitabily - which is hardly a ringing endorsement for what was (and in relative terms still is) a new design.

Alliance is due to get the last 3 OS F100s in the not too distant future (went on one of these the other day - which was good fun). The F70s days in KL's fleet are severely numbered - and I think that once that happens the largest Fokker operators will be Alliance and Network. I can't help but wonder (and this is pure speculation) whether some of the KL F70 fleet might make an appearance in Australia - whether for spares or as a very low cost way to expand or simply add a tiny bit of fat into the Alliance or Network's fleet.

luftaom wrote:

and I think that once that happens the largest Fokker operators will be Alliance and Network.

To Alliances 24 and QF's 18, add to this list VARAs 14 and Air Niuginis 7 and you've got around 65 of the currently 165 flying F100s in the world close to Australia (numbers all per wiki data). There are some small Indonesian carriers with F100s too but no big fleets.

Can I ask why the F100 has found a home in Australia, particularly the mining routes?

With these rumoured new Asian routes potentially opening up soon, are there any particular routes you guys think Australian airlines should be operating to anywhere in the world (not just Australia or Asia) that we don't already service on our own metal?

jman wrote:

With these rumoured new Asian routes potentially opening up soon, are there any particular routes you guys think Australian airlines should be operating to anywhere in the world (not just Australia or Asia) that we don't already service on our own metal?

MEL-BKK & MEL-PVG

qf2220 wrote:

luftaom wrote:

and I think that once that happens the largest Fokker operators will be Alliance and Network.

To Alliances 24 and QF's 18, add to this list VARAs 14 and Air Niuginis 7 and you've got around 65 of the currently 165 flying F100s in the world close to Australia (numbers all per wiki data). There are some small Indonesian carriers with F100s too but no big fleets.

Can I ask why the F100 has found a home in Australia, particularly the mining routes?

The F100 has proven to be unbeatable in durability on the often rough runways at mines etc. Their durability is believed to exceed aircraft such as E190s and 717s. The only other aircraft that appears to be as good in this type of work is the BAe146 but its operating costs are a bit higher.

D7207 OOL-KUL diverts to BNE after suspected bird strike

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-up ... af07018d24

Now this is interesting

http://www.theage.com.au/business/aviat ... x3efu.html

New airport on the cards for SE Melbourne/Gippsland?

tullamarine wrote:

qf2220 wrote:

luftaom wrote:

and I think that once that happens the largest Fokker operators will be Alliance and Network.

To Alliances 24 and QF's 18, add to this list VARAs 14 and Air Niuginis 7 and you've got around 65 of the currently 165 flying F100s in the world close to Australia (numbers all per wiki data). There are some small Indonesian carriers with F100s too but no big fleets.

Can I ask why the F100 has found a home in Australia, particularly the mining routes?

The F100 has proven to be unbeatable in durability on the often rough runways at mines etc. Their durability is believed to exceed aircraft such as E190s and 717s. The only other aircraft that appears to be as good in this type of work is the BAe146 but its operating costs are a bit higher.

Thanks for this. How is their operating/maintenance costs?

Thanks for this. How is their operating/maintenance costs?

Sorry, I don't have access to exact figures. They are ageing aircraft so I assume their maintenance can be quite intensive; this is the same for 146s. There is also a shortage of new parts hence airlines such as Alliance buying older aircraft purely for scrap so they can cannibalise rotables.

Qantas has finished installing WIFI on the 2nd 738, VH-XZC

http://australianaviation.com.au/2017/0 ... g-737-800/

getluv wrote:

I'm sure we'll put this to rest once their first 787 is rolled out.

The new branding is everywhere on it's marketing, financial products, and they do have new branding ready for QFFreight and QFLink. It's too much of an expensive process for QF to roll it out quick, and it's just not the planes. While it'll be cute to have all the planes repainted in their new logo by their 100th birthday, I doubt it'll happen.

That is an important thing - as new aircraft get delivered they will be in the new livery and some of the older aircraft will drop out of the fleet.
Also it isn't very smart to take an aircraft out of service just for a paint. Normally it is timed to try to tie in with other maintenance etc.

According to this UA thread SFO-SYD will go 77W later in the year

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1367225

getluv wrote:

The new branding is everywhere on it's marketing, financial products, and they do have new branding ready for QFFreight and QFLink. It's too much of an expensive process for QF to roll it out quick, and it's just not the planes. While it'll be cute to have all the planes repainted in their new logo by their 100th birthday, I doubt it'll happen.

It took NZ a couple of years to re-paint, there is 2-3 77E's still painted. Apart from that it took them around 4 years to completely repaint the fleet,

log0008 wrote:

jman wrote:

With these rumoured new Asian routes potentially opening up soon, are there any particular routes you guys think Australian airlines should be operating to anywhere in the world (not just Australia or Asia) that we don't already service on our own metal?

MEL-BKK & MEL-PVG

JQ fly MEL-BKK 3-4x weekly.

Would be great to see QF fly to ICN. They currently codeshare on OZs service from SYD. Maybe launch BNE to complement? I can't think of any new destinations in Asia for QF to serve except for ICN and India, unless the expansion comes from MEL, BNE or PER to existing QF destinations (e.g. BKK, PVG).

Would like to see QF return to India. BNE-DEL was Skyscanner's "unserved route of the week" (http://www.anna.aero/2017/06/28/brisban ... -the-week/).

Qantas16 wrote:

log0008 wrote:

jman wrote:

With these rumoured new Asian routes potentially opening up soon, are there any particular routes you guys think Australian airlines should be operating to anywhere in the world (not just Australia or Asia) that we don't already service on our own metal?

MEL-BKK & MEL-PVG

JQ fly MEL-BKK 3-4x weekly.

Would be great to see QF fly to ICN. They currently codeshare on OZs service from SYD. Maybe launch BNE to complement? I can't think of any new destinations in Asia for QF to serve except for ICN and India, unless the expansion comes from MEL, BNE or PER to existing QF destinations (e.g. BKK, PVG).

Would like to see QF return to India. BNE-DEL was Skyscanner's "unserved route of the week" (http://www.anna.aero/2017/06/28/brisban ... -the-week/).

On the QF front, with current metal, routes are limited that would be viable for the likes of QF that are not already served. Maybe MEL-PVG with QF on A330 is one market I could see working with current fleets, flights to ICN from BNE/SYD/MEL could possibly work seasonally not sure what the loads and yields would be like year round though for QF. Now when the 787s arrive there are lots of potential further afield of course and no doubt we will see QF do that from PER to Europe as well as more routes from BNE/SYD/MEL to the USA/Canada and even South America. But I really feel if QF were to get the A321neoLR that aircraft would make a lot of medium haul routes in the Asia Pacific region viable, such as BNE-MNL, MEL-CGK, ADL-SIN, PER-AKL and even PER-HKG might be possible though on the upper limit of its range.

Now for JQ, while they dabbled in China briefly, JQ should be the vessel QF use to other markets in China outside PVG/PEK, as the low yielding traffic and tour groups would not be viable for QF, it would be the perfect market for JQ with the 788s from BNE/SYD/MEL/PER. India could also be another market that if QF don't touch them self I could see JQ on as it is price sensitive.

And for VA...very limited. No new markets if anything I see them shrinking further. Even their HKG route would not work if it wasn't for HNA interests, the only reason it will be successful is simply being used as a vessel for Hong Kong Airlines to access the aussie market (namely MEL and SYD) because they can't with their own metal due to bilateral restrictions. Don't get me wrong, I think HKG flights will be full for VA and possible add more routes to Australia from HKG, but not from any merits of success at VA, it will be HNA filling these flights.

qf2220 wrote:

Now this is interesting

http://www.theage.com.au/business/aviat ... x3efu.html

New airport on the cards for SE Melbourne/Gippsland?

If bust I see it being reasonably successful.
Tullamarine is a long slog through terrible traffic for the majority of the southeastern suburbs so their would certainly be a market.
Doesn't necessarily need to be international, initially just serving O&D domestic markets would be sufficient.
Routes that would work SYD, BNE, OOL, PER, ADL and maybe CBR. Traffic likely to be more premium than Avalon, so expect a QF/VA presence, as well as JQ/TT for sun routes.

Hopefully no curfew as there are significant industrial areas in the southeast that could feed night time freight flights.

Expect a busier airport than Avalon, larger more wealthy catchment area, and MEL can be easily more than 2 hours travel time from much of the southeast, even longer for those on the peninsula and gippsland. Avalon has the misfortune in that many of the suburbs for which it is convenient are also close to Tullamarine.

Seems to be a private consortium orchestrating this, will be interesting to see if they put their money where their mouth is. We have already being shown that privately funded airports can work in Australia with the recent construction of Brisbane West Welcamp.

qf2220 wrote:

Now this is interesting

http://www.theage.com.au/business/aviat ... x3efu.html

New airport on the cards for SE Melbourne/Gippsland?

Yes heard this on the way home tonight, Knowing this Labour Government or even the next Liberal Government this airport wont even happen. Hey they cant even decide to build a railway line to the airport we have now all they want to do is add lanes to the Tulla Fwy, a few months ago there was talk of a 3rd runway at MEL.

Today's VA1117 BNE-PPP suffered a bird strike this afternoon while taking off from BNE, flight returned to BNE just as a precaution

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-07-0 ... fmredir=sm

I would love to see QF fly to HNL from MEL, or maybe open up the Maldives or Seychelles from Perth.

Qantas16 wrote:

log0008 wrote:

jman wrote:

With these rumoured new Asian routes potentially opening up soon, are there any particular routes you guys think Australian airlines should be operating to anywhere in the world (not just Australia or Asia) that we don't already service on our own metal?

MEL-BKK & MEL-PVG

JQ fly MEL-BKK 3-4x weekly.

Would be great to see QF fly to ICN. They currently codeshare on OZs service from SYD. Maybe launch BNE to complement? I can't think of any new destinations in Asia for QF to serve except for ICN and India, unless the expansion comes from MEL, BNE or PER to existing QF destinations (e.g. BKK, PVG).

I must agree, would be nice to see QF in ICN at least for the southern summer (high season for Australia), maybe even try out MEL, KE couldn't make it work but maybe QF could.

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:

Qantas16 wrote:

log0008 wrote:

MEL-BKK & MEL-PVG

JQ fly MEL-BKK 3-4x weekly.

Would be great to see QF fly to ICN. They currently codeshare on OZs service from SYD. Maybe launch BNE to complement? I can't think of any new destinations in Asia for QF to serve except for ICN and India, unless the expansion comes from MEL, BNE or PER to existing QF destinations (e.g. BKK, PVG).

I must agree, would be nice to see QF in ICN at least for the southern summer (high season for Australia), maybe even try out MEL, KE couldn't make it work but maybe QF could.

Still amazes me no airline flies MEL-ICN I suspect it's due to slots ( or capacity rather as Melbourne isn't slot controlled) especially with KE/OZ offering 380s to SYD and growth of the Korean market.

MEL-PVG is a tricky one due to MU, and this significant capacity, despite the JV I feel QF can still command a premium on the route due to soft product and disrupt and lounge offerings.

Also I feel MEL-DPS on a 738 would work, doubt it would be profitable but it would allow pax to burn FF points like SYD-DPS/HNL, as such perhaps there is a business case?