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Irehdna
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AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:39 am

http://www.travelweek.ca/news/two-new-r ... s-flights/

Air Canada is inaugurating 2 new routes today.

Montreal to Algiers will be operated 4x per week on Rouge aircraft. The route aims to suffice both traffic from the diaspora of Montreal to Algeria and North Africa as well as enhance tourism between the two regions.

Toronto to Mumbai is also 4x per week on B787-9. It is the longest route in the AC network at 12620km. This is the first time since 2010 where more than one NA city is served nonstop from BOM.

Anybody with info on either flight or opinions, feel free to post!
Last edited by Irehdna on Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
voxkel
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:44 am

YYZ-BOM is interesting, don't know if it can be sustained given most of the YYZ NRI come from N. India rather than West/South. Also AC has AI *A feed at DEL; YYZ-BOM will need to target traffic only to BOM since BOM is not AI hub anymore. I personally see a lot of US-based passengers taking this flight.
 
Topguncanada
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:42 am

India is performing well for AC it seems. The seasonal YVR-DEL is starting earlier and is being increased from 3x to 5x this winter season.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:05 am

voxkel wrote:
since BOM is not AI hub anymore

I know that it's been supposed for a while, but when did they make that official... or have they?
 
KLSMB
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:45 am

There are several reasons that should make this route a slam dunk for AC :

- Mumbai is the most populous city in India, and one of the largest metropolitan areas in the world. It is the financial, economic, and entertainment capital of the Indian subcontinent. Toronto is one of the largest cities in North America, and is the financial, economic, and entertainment capital of Canada. There are strong trade and business ties between Canada and India.
- Air Canada offers one-stop connections at YYZ to/from all major cities in Canada, and most major cities in the United States. Passengers from BOM bound for the United States can clear US Customs and Immigration at YYZ before arriving in the USA, offering a convenient and time-saving option on routings such as BOM-YYZ-LGA, BOM-YYZ-LAX, BOM-YYZ-SFO, BOM-YYZ-ORD, BOM-YYZ-DFW, and BOM-YYZ-YVR over alternate routings through EWR, JFK, AMS, LHR, CDG, ZRH, and even DXB.
- Other than the new AC YYZ-BOM service, the only non-stops to Mumbai from North America are EWR-BOM (UA) and JFK-BOM (AI).
- AC can offer connections with Star Alliance partner AI from BOM to several cities that are not served from DEL such as JGA, IXM, IXE, RAJ

This is a route that Air Canada can really leverage connections to/from destinations across the Americas via YYZ, supplemented by large Indian diaspora in the Greater Toronto Area. A very smart move by Air Canada in my opinion.
 
BENAir01
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:03 pm

I don't know how to I my reply to a little bit of a post but in reply to KLSMB, AIs BOM flight actually goes to EWR. Their DEL flight goes to JFK.
 
FSDan
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:38 pm

KLSMB wrote:
- Other than the new AC YYZ-BOM service, the only non-stops to Mumbai from North America are EWR-BOM (UA) and JFK-BOM (AI).


As BENAir01 also stated, both nonstops from the U.S. to BOM are from EWR. AI's JFK flight is JFK-DEL-BOM, whereas their EWR flight is EWR-BOM-DEL.
 
KLSMB
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:35 pm

BENAir01 wrote:
I don't know how to I my reply to a little bit of a post but in reply to KLSMB, AIs BOM flight actually goes to EWR. Their DEL flight goes to JFK.


My apologies, that is a mistake on my part. But it drives home the point that, other than YYZ-BOM, the only non-stop service between the Americas and Mumbai operates from EWR.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:10 am

Strangely enough, AC BOM-YYZ is flying south of UA BOM-EWR, and is following AC DXB-YYZ. Wonder why the strange routings
 
bhxdtw
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:19 am

Ok...
2 things.. The OP stated that YULALG is also there to enhance tourism between the two points. I understand the French VFR traffic but what tourism are they looking to cultivate in Algeria? I'm honestly intrigued.
2. Why would BOM be dehubbed if its the most populous city in India. Even if its not the financial capital.

Thx
 
Airlinerdude
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:20 am

Irehdna wrote:
http://www.travelweek.ca/news/two-new-routes-air-canada-mumbai-algiers-flights/

Anybody with info on either flight or opinions, feel free to post!


Looks like YUL - ALG flight seems to favour a YUL POS, with very very light loads on the ALG-YUL flights, and nearly full on the YUL-ALG flights for the foreseeable future.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:18 am

bhxdtw wrote:
Ok...
2 things.. The OP stated that YULALG is also there to enhance tourism between the two points. I understand the French VFR traffic but what tourism are they looking to cultivate in Algeria? I'm honestly intrigued.
2. Why would BOM be dehubbed if its the most populous city in India. Even if its not the financial capital.

Thx


I am also interested in the tourist potential of YUL-ALG. As for BOM, AI unofficially de-hubbed the airport in 2010 when moving their hub to Delhi T3. At the time DEL was the much better airport and had much better access to both India and Asia/EU/NA. Nowadays AI is continuing to add LH routes solely from DEL, making BOM nothing more than a focus city. From this, it seems that nearly all of the YYZ-BOM traffic ends in BOM, unless 9W and AC still interline.
 
behramjee
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:43 am

I checked TIM and Indian passport holders (not holding U.S. green card) need a transit visa for Canada if they are flying AC BOM-YYZ-USA so isn't that going to be a hindrance for AC.

Yes there are many 1000s of Indian citizens with green cards in their possessions who can opt for AC as they don't need a transit visa for YYZ.
 
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longhauler
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:42 pm

behramjee wrote:
I checked TIM and Indian passport holders (not holding U.S. green card) need a transit visa for Canada if they are flying AC BOM-YYZ-USA so isn't that going to be a hindrance for AC.

It doesn't appear to be.

Today the innaugural BOM-YYZ flight arrived in YYZ, with an almost full load. Not bad for a first flight.

In addition to a few international connections through YYZ, and about a dozen Canadian connection cities, there were also passengers connecting to ORD, BOS, IAD, ATL, IAH, BWI, CVG, CMH, DFW, DTW, DEN, CLE and SAT. Perhaps AC is arranging transit visas to those that need it ... like they do on Cuban flights requiring visitor visas.

YYZ is a far easier connection than EWR or JFK, as inbound Canadian Customs does not have to be cleared and only US pre-clearance is done outbound. Normally baggage does not have to be taken off and re-checked during the transit. I have seen transit times as low as 75 minutes ... try that at JFK!
 
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AI126
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 1:54 pm

Irehdna wrote:
bhxdtw wrote:
Ok...
2 things.. The OP stated that YULALG is also there to enhance tourism between the two points. I understand the French VFR traffic but what tourism are they looking to cultivate in Algeria? I'm honestly intrigued.
2. Why would BOM be dehubbed if its the most populous city in India. Even if its not the financial capital.

Thx


I am also interested in the tourist potential of YUL-ALG. As for BOM, AI unofficially de-hubbed the airport in 2010 when moving their hub to Delhi T3. At the time DEL was the much better airport and had much better access to both India and Asia/EU/NA. Nowadays AI is continuing to add LH routes solely from DEL, making BOM nothing more than a focus city. From this, it seems that nearly all of the YYZ-BOM traffic ends in BOM, unless 9W and AC still interline.


AI never actually de-hubbed BOM. They still run a very large and comprehensive domestic operation out of there even though their long haul ops are much more limited. They are the second largest carrier out of BOM after Jet still. It would be financial suicide for any Indian full service carrier to dehub BOM since even to this day, Mumbai is by far the wealthiest city, corporate stronghold, and financial capital in India. It would be like a US airline de-hubbing an NYC hub.
 
hohd
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:04 pm

behramjee wrote:
I checked TIM and Indian passport holders (not holding U.S. green card) need a transit visa for Canada if they are flying AC BOM-YYZ-USA so isn't that going to be a hindrance for AC.

Yes there are many 1000s of Indian citizens with green cards in their possessions who can opt for AC as they don't need a transit visa for YYZ.


It will be a hindrance especially for those who are travelling to various cities in US. While the Canada transit visa is free, but it is still a hassle to get it and passengers have to plan ahead. Hence I am not sure about the YYZ-BOM market. DEL market has sufficient O & D and North India traffic, that it can sustain itself.

AC and other airlines should work with Canadian government to introduce India transit, similar to China transit (currently citizens of Mainland China do not need a transit visa if they are going to US).
 
bfitzflyer
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:09 pm

KLSMB wrote:
There are several reasons that should make this route a slam dunk for AC :

- Mumbai is the most populous city in India, and one of the largest metropolitan areas in the world. It is the financial, economic, and entertainment capital of the Indian subcontinent. Toronto is one of the largest cities in North America, and is the financial, economic, and entertainment capital of Canada. There are strong trade and business ties between Canada and India.
- .


Ok, splitting hairs but I thought that Delhi was the largest city in India, so I looked it up. Delhi is larger metro area and Mumbai is larger city proper, but it is close.
 
ChrisFallon77
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:39 pm

bhxdtw wrote:
Ok...
2 things.. The OP stated that YULALG is also there to enhance tourism between the two points. I understand the French VFR traffic but what tourism are they looking to cultivate in Algeria? I'm honestly intrigued.
2. Why would BOM be dehubbed if its the most populous city in India. Even if its not the financial capital.

Thx


In regards to Algeria and tourism, i spoke with a good friend who is from Algiers who now lives in Miami. I told him I would like to visit Algeria. His response was basically this ""Algiers is not set up for tourism and is basically a raw location- you're better off in Morocco"

Not so much a terror threat according to him in Oran and Algiers.
 
btbx11
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:13 pm

ChrisFallon77 wrote:
bhxdtw wrote:
Ok...
2 things.. The OP stated that YULALG is also there to enhance tourism between the two points. I understand the French VFR traffic but what tourism are they looking to cultivate in Algeria? I'm honestly intrigued.
2. Why would BOM be dehubbed if its the most populous city in India. Even if its not the financial capital.

Thx


In regards to Algeria and tourism, i spoke with a good friend who is from Algiers who now lives in Miami. I told him I would like to visit Algeria. His response was basically this ""Algiers is not set up for tourism and is basically a raw location- you're better off in Morocco"

Not so much a terror threat according to him in Oran and Algiers.


I've just returned from my most recent trip to Algeria. The raw potential for tourism is huge. The cities of Constantine, Oran, and the casbah of Algiers are amazing, and parts of the Mediterranean coast are breathtakingly beautiful. That said, there is no near term potential for international tourism to Algeria due to the current government (dictatorship) and danger to foreign visitors.

The government actively suppresses tourism in order to keep international attention away from the corruption and civil oppression happening in the country. The danger to tourists comes mainly from the kidnap for ransom "industry" as well as the always-possible internal uprising from the Berber people of the Kabylie region. The so called "Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb" are not really a terrorist organization any more, they just use the name as an excuse for their kidnappings and other illegal activities.
 
cf105arrow
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:45 am

I don't think tourism in Algeria was ever a prime consideration for AC. AH had the market to itself, it made good sense for AC to claim part of it
 
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Irehdna
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:44 am

Coming to think of it now, UA EWR-BOM could be in trouble, and is being boxed in by both AI EWR-BOM and AC YYZ-BOM.

From personal experience, the local NJ diaspora population (and Indian business community) vastly prefers AI over UA for the BOM route, since AI has been there longer and (when there are no IRROPS) provides better service, food, luggage capacity, and seat pitch. Especially for visiting elderly, the fact that their mother country's traits can come with them direct to USA is a big plus. This makes a majority of UA EWR-BOM traffic originating from other US airports (and from personal experience on that flight, this seems to be true). When these people compare UA XXX-EWR-BOM vs AC XXX-YYZ-BOM, given the same fare, most will choose AC. This is because the average traveller, beyond price, will care most about timing, aircraft, and airline reputation. Most itineraries from US airports are sorter via AC YYZ than UA EWR, and AC uses B789 vs B77E for UA. Additionally, for several years UA has had a much worse reputation than AC, regardless of the specific differences on their India routes.

Contrarily I think UA EWR-DEL is a bit more safe, as despite AC's competition, UA does not face direct competition on EWR-DEL, not to mention the greater number of *A connections at DEL vs BOM.
 
tjh8402
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Re: AC YUL-ALG and YYZ-BOM begin today

Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:04 am

Irehdna wrote:
Coming to think of it now, UA EWR-BOM could be in trouble, and is being boxed in by both AI EWR-BOM and AC YYZ-BOM.

From personal experience, the local NJ diaspora population (and Indian business community) vastly prefers AI over UA for the BOM route, since AI has been there longer and (when there are no IRROPS) provides better service, food, luggage capacity, and seat pitch. Especially for visiting elderly, the fact that their mother country's traits can come with them direct to USA is a big plus. This makes a majority of UA EWR-BOM traffic originating from other US airports (and from personal experience on that flight, this seems to be true). When these people compare UA XXX-EWR-BOM vs AC XXX-YYZ-BOM, given the same fare, most will choose AC. This is because the average traveller, beyond price, will care most about timing, aircraft, and airline reputation. Most itineraries from US airports are sorter via AC YYZ than UA EWR, and AC uses B789 vs B77E for UA. Additionally, for several years UA has had a much worse reputation than AC, regardless of the specific differences on their India routes.

Contrarily I think UA EWR-DEL is a bit more safe, as despite AC's competition, UA does not face direct competition on EWR-DEL, not to mention the greater number of *A connections at DEL vs BOM.


It's going to be interesting. I just did a quick search of prices from my home (MCO) to BOM over a variety of dates in August. The two stoppers with DL, AF/KL, and 9W are the cheapest, with all the one stops (via AC, UA, AI, EK, and LH) all being virtually identically priced. It does give some interesting options, combinations, and choices.

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