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readytotaxi
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Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:13 am

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... 0s-427197/

I see that in the next 2yrs they will start to replace the 747 with A350-1000's. The current cabin has just 14 J seats and seems to suit the beach fleet quite well, with the replacement aircraft will they keep this small Upper Class cabin or be tempted to increase as per the current 787 and 330 ?
BA don't seem to have a problem with their 777 40 J seats to Florida and the Caribbean.

Also in the article is says that they will take 12 new aircraft to replace the A346 and 747 of which there are 16 in total so is this a planned fleet reduction?
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TheLion
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:39 am

BA are reducing their LGW B772 fleet CW cabin down to 32.

VS may increase theirs slightly to reflect greater premium demand, although their LGW A350 fleet will have around 410 seats vs 360 for the LHR A350 fleet, so it could well stay the same:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/busine ... -100-order

Apparently VS still have the A380 order on the books:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... der-427201

A top up A35W order is more likely in my view, probably replacing the A380s. Then again you never know. It would be a big fillip for Airbus if VS were to take their A380s.
 
TC957
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:44 am

There is still 3 more 789's to come in the next year or so. I hope VS do increase the number of J seats on their leisure fleet as especially for the Vegas route 14 isn't enough.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:22 am

The volume of J seats out of Gatwick is dependent on how many redemption seats they want to take to market. BA use Gatwick partly to allow LHR travellelrs to spend Avios on leisure flights to keep them loyal, hence the % of paid J vs. redeemed J is important. There may well be high demand for more VS Upper Class out of LGW, but it may depend on how much of that they see as paid, i.e. cash against redemptions, i.e. (arguably) cost.
 
APYu
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:29 am

readytotaxi wrote:
. The current cabin has just 14 J seats and seems to suit the beach fleet quite well, with the replacement aircraft will they keep this small Upper Class cabin or be tempted to increase as per the current 787 and 330 ?
?

The A330s also operate some of the beach fleet routes from Gatwick and so the larger J cabin has already been proven to work ex. LGW so I would expect this trend to continue
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
jfk777
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 11:22 am

The 787-9 have just 31 Upper Class seats, they should increase that.
 
by738
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:16 pm

skipness1E wrote:
BA use Gatwick partly to allow LHR travellelrs to spend Avios on leisure flights to keep them loyal, hence the % of paid J vs. redeemed J is important. .

To account for anything significant (in terms of aircraft layout and J class offering, I think that is a myth. Very few high accruing Avios'ers would contemplate a LGW Florida flight. TPA at a push.
 
APYu
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:47 pm

The loss of 8 J seats on the LGW fleet, outside of school holiday, will largely affect staff travellers
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
skipness1E
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:56 pm

by738 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
BA use Gatwick partly to allow LHR travellelrs to spend Avios on leisure flights to keep them loyal, hence the % of paid J vs. redeemed J is important. .

To account for anything significant (in terms of aircraft layout and J class offering, I think that is a myth. Very few high accruing Avios'ers would contemplate a LGW Florida flight. TPA at a push.

Have you seen the demographics on some of the Caribbean flights? Barbados did well enough to have Concorde once a week, some of that leisure market is very well off.
A fair few Avios spenders are young enough to take their kids to Disney as well as collect points out of LHR, I really think you're wrong on this one. Paid premium travel has always been a huge challenge at Gatwick.It's the reason BA and VS have a smaller premium cabin at LGW.
 
GVIIO
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:40 pm

A bit off topic but why did BA choose places like OAK, and LIM from LGW for example when they aren't the stereotypical leisure destinations, in other words are places served from LGW by VS and BA places they just want to offer less J seats? If that's true then why cant they just fly from LHR with planes that have less J seats and more Y
 
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TedToToe
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:21 pm

LGW-OAK is a lower cost alternative to LHR-SFO and specifically to take on Norwegian head on. OAK will naturally be lower yielding and wouldn't work out of LHR. Search ba.com for San Francisco fly-drive holidays and you will see that the 'prices from' includes return flights to and from OAK rather than SFO.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:38 pm

Escorted tour companies do well to Peru from the UK
http://www.coxandkings.co.uk/destinatio ... erica/peru
Tend to be the older generation spending their kids inheritance.
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TheGeordielad
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:40 pm

GVIIO wrote:
A bit off topic but why did BA choose places like OAK, and LIM from LGW for example when they aren't the stereotypical leisure destinations, in other words are places served from LGW by VS and BA places they just want to offer less J seats? If that's true then why cant they just fly from LHR with planes that have less J seats and more Y

BA chose OAK&also FLL to compete against Norwegian and for Lima they sell holidays on it as well as other tour groups as well.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:52 pm

TheLion wrote:
BA are reducing their LGW B772 fleet CW cabin down to 32.

VS may increase theirs slightly to reflect greater premium demand, although their LGW A350 fleet will have around 410 seats vs 360 for the LHR A350 fleet, so it could well stay the same:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/busine ... -100-order

Apparently VS still have the A380 order on the books:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... der-427201

A top up A35W order is more likely in my view, probably replacing the A380s. Then again you never know. It would be a big fillip for Airbus if VS were to take their A380s.

410 seats in VS' LGW A35K's, this must mean 10 abreast Y even with a small J cabin :crowded:
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:54 pm

frigatebird wrote:
TheLion wrote:
BA are reducing their LGW B772 fleet CW cabin down to 32.

VS may increase theirs slightly to reflect greater premium demand, although their LGW A350 fleet will have around 410 seats vs 360 for the LHR A350 fleet, so it could well stay the same:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/busine ... -100-order

Apparently VS still have the A380 order on the books:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... der-427201

A top up A35W order is more likely in my view, probably replacing the A380s. Then again you never know. It would be a big fillip for Airbus if VS were to take their A380s.

410 seats in VS' LGW A35K's, this must mean 10 abreast Y even with a small J cabin :crowded:

I highly doubt VS would go 10 abreast in an A35K
 
Jerry123
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:34 pm

GVIIO wrote:
A bit off topic but why did BA choose places like OAK, and LIM from LGW for example when they aren't the stereotypical leisure destinations, in other words are places served from LGW by VS and BA places they just want to offer less J seats? If that's true then why cant they just fly from LHR with planes that have less J seats and more Y

Norwegian.
 
crownvic
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:37 pm

how will they replace the 5 747's to MCO several days a week??
 
skipness1E
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:44 pm

With 5 A350s several days a week where needed.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:36 pm

TheGeordielad wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
TheLion wrote:
BA are reducing their LGW B772 fleet CW cabin down to 32.

VS may increase theirs slightly to reflect greater premium demand, although their LGW A350 fleet will have around 410 seats vs 360 for the LHR A350 fleet, so it could well stay the same:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/busine ... -100-order

Apparently VS still have the A380 order on the books:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... der-427201

A top up A35W order is more likely in my view, probably replacing the A380s. Then again you never know. It would be a big fillip for Airbus if VS were to take their A380s.

410 seats in VS' LGW A35K's, this must mean 10 abreast Y even with a small J cabin :crowded:

I highly doubt VS would go 10 abreast in an A35K

I highly doubt VS can cram 410 seats in an A356K without going 10 abreast Y. Compare it with KL's 77W, 408 seats, 10 abreast Y. And VS will have genuine premium Y, and probably a J section taking more space than KL's.
146,318/19/20/21, AB6,332,333,343,345,346,359,388, 722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9, 742,74E,744,752,762,763, 772,77E,773,77W,788 AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E75/90,F50/70
 
DfwAussie
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:46 pm

TheLion wrote:
BA are reducing their LGW B772 fleet CW cabin down to 32.

VS may increase theirs slightly to reflect greater premium demand, although their LGW A350 fleet will have around 410 seats vs 360 for the LHR A350 fleet, so it could well stay the same:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/busine ... -100-order

Apparently VS still have the A380 order on the books:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... der-427201

A top up A35W order is more likely in my view, probably replacing the A380s. Then again you never know. It would be a big fillip for Airbus if VS were to take their A380s.


Highly unlikely VS will take those 380's. Even if they did, they would be operated out of LHR, not LGW.
 
FromCDGtoSYD
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:48 pm

frigatebird wrote:
TheGeordielad wrote:
frigatebird wrote:
410 seats in VS' LGW A35K's, this must mean 10 abreast Y even with a small J cabin :crowded:

I highly doubt VS would go 10 abreast in an A35K

I highly doubt VS can cram 410 seats in an A356K without going 10 abreast Y. Compare it with KL's 77W, 408 seats, 10 abreast Y. And VS will have genuine premium Y, and probably a J section taking more space than KL's.


https://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Air_F ... -300_E.php take away 1 Row in Y and it's still doable
 
gunnerman
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:30 pm

It's just as well that both Airbus and VS have moved on from their "4 engines 4 long haul" campaign.
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:37 pm

gunnerman wrote:
It's just as well that both Airbus and VS have moved on from their "4 engines 4 long haul" campaign.


Which of course just a marketing slogan and not a quote from the company operations manual... :lol:
 
DobboDobbo
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:44 pm

It would be a turn up if VS took the A380s. I genuinely cannot see what route the would work on other than the MCO routes from MAN and LGW.

There must be scope to use them at LHR, but I cannot see how they would add anything over the B789 fleet...
 
gunnerman
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:55 pm

The A380 looks dead. And I can't see DL being enthusiastic about it either.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:57 pm

skipness1E wrote:
by738 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
BA use Gatwick partly to allow LHR travellelrs to spend Avios on leisure flights to keep them loyal, hence the % of paid J vs. redeemed J is important. .

To account for anything significant (in terms of aircraft layout and J class offering, I think that is a myth. Very few high accruing Avios'ers would contemplate a LGW Florida flight. TPA at a push.

Have you seen the demographics on some of the Caribbean flights? Barbados did well enough to have Concorde once a week, some of that leisure market is very well off.
A fair few Avios spenders are young enough to take their kids to Disney as well as collect points out of LHR, I really think you're wrong on this one. Paid premium travel has always been a huge challenge at Gatwick.It's the reason BA and VS have a smaller premium cabin at LGW.

Concorde hasn't flown in nearly 14 years. It's hard to compare an industry that had little LCC/ULCC competition to today.
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
jomur
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:58 pm

skipness1E wrote:
The volume of J seats out of Gatwick is dependent on how many redemption seats they want to take to market. BA use Gatwick partly to allow LHR travellelrs to spend Avios on leisure flights to keep them loyal, hence the % of paid J vs. redeemed J is important. There may well be high demand for more VS Upper Class out of LGW, but it may depend on how much of that they see as paid, i.e. cash against redemptions, i.e. (arguably) cost.


Considering BA only usually release 2 redemptions seats per flight (according to those in the know on flyertalk), I don't see that as a reason for a high number of J seats available.
 
Arion640
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:06 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
by738 wrote:

To account for anything significant (in terms of aircraft layout and J class offering, I think that is a myth. Very few high accruing Avios'ers would contemplate a LGW Florida flight. TPA at a push.

Have you seen the demographics on some of the Caribbean flights? Barbados did well enough to have Concorde once a week, some of that leisure market is very well off.
A fair few Avios spenders are young enough to take their kids to Disney as well as collect points out of LHR, I really think you're wrong on this one. Paid premium travel has always been a huge challenge at Gatwick.It's the reason BA and VS have a smaller premium cabin at LGW.

Concorde hasn't flown in nearly 14 years. It's hard to compare an industry that had little LCC/ULCC competition to today.


Yes because those Concorde passengers would be flying Level and Norwegian wouldn't they....
 
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Channex757
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:13 pm

Regarding aircraft numbers out of LGW, it seems like MAN is developing its own based fleet nowadays of fairly young A333s cascaded from out of LHR. This would account for some drawdown of the Gatwick beach fleet numbers as MAN was always serviced by their planes (as is Glasgow and Belfast).

Those aircraft don't need any replacement for a while yet. There is also seemingly some slack in the current 744 fleet that would reduce the count.
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:20 pm

Barbados on BA from LGW is a four-class 777 route (like Bermuda and some of the St Lucia/Port of Spain flights). So that means First and Club World. BA still has good premium loads on some of the LGW routes, hence the very small number of four-class 777s they still base there.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:24 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
It would be a turn up if VS took the A380s....


And also good PR for RB and VS, ads for free in most TVs in Europe. How deep is VS/RB pocket for adventures right now, is a different topic...
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:27 pm

FlyCaledonian wrote:
Barbados on BA from LGW is a four-class 777 route (like Bermuda and some of the St Lucia/Port of Spain flights). So that means First and Club World. BA still has good premium loads on some of the LGW routes, hence the very small number of four-class 777s they still base there.

Never realised BA flew first class out if LGW! By the way have all B77Es with First class been refitted with new cabins?
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:30 pm

DobboDobbo wrote:
It would be a turn up if VS took the A380s. I genuinely cannot see what route the would work on other than the MCO routes from MAN and LGW.

There must be scope to use them at LHR, but I cannot see how they would add anything over the B789 fleet...

Same here I think the 789 is the right sized aircraft for VS London Heathrow operations and adding the A380 would just add excess capacity and run some routes if not all unprofitably.
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 8:34 pm

Jayafe wrote:
DobboDobbo wrote:
It would be a turn up if VS took the A380s....


And also good PR for RB and VS, ads for free in most TVs in Europe. How deep is VS/RB pocket for adventures right now, is a different topic...

it may be good PR for getting and flying the biggest passenger aircraft in the world, just look at Emirates however many airlines like CZ had decent PRs for the A380 but isn't doing so well with having the cost of it.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:21 pm

jetblueguy22 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Have you seen the demographics on some of the Caribbean flights? Barbados did well enough to have Concorde once a week, some of that leisure market is very well off.

Concorde hasn't flown in nearly 14 years. It's hard to compare an industry that had little LCC/ULCC competition to today.

In case you didn't know, the Barbados Concorde flight went out with 20 seats blocked in order to make the distance with excess baggage... as a result, its fares were typically in the $12,000-14,000 range to make up the difference*.

Not only was that well above the typical spread on the New York service, but target clientele were usually landholders in the Caribbean and thus had no need for the hotel/vacation package discounts commonly offered on the Kennedy service either.

As such, while I'm sure much of that HVC traffic switched to private flights after Concorde's retirement, we can be equally sure that the rise in LCC/ULCCs played no part whatsoever in its calculations.


*Another fun fact is that BA would usually only allow the service to be operated with an aircraft that was fresh out of mtx, and had also received a bath in ionized water, to limit the amount of drag-inducing dust and particulates that could cling to it while in lower altitudes.
Last edited by LAX772LR on Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
skipness1E
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:26 pm

I did know, I have recently been to see the Adam's Concorde Experience and well remember seeing Concorde depart on the Saturday LHR-BGI run. The 2 seats per flight Avios redemption, one can simply pay for more seats using Avios points though surely to avoid full C fares?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:29 pm

skipness1E wrote:
I did know

Well yeah, not surprised you would know, meant it more for the one who quoted you in response. ;)
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
APYu
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:01 pm

jomur wrote:

Considering BA only usually release 2 redemptions seats per flight (according to those in the know on flyertalk), I don't see that as a reason for a high number of J seats available.


This isn't true. They release a MINIMUM of 2Y and 2J seats on each flight 350 days before. Others can and are released as revenue management see fit during the interim period. Some flights such as JFK where there is lots of capacity can have lots of redemption seats. But seats to places like Sydney don't appear too often.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
anstar
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:09 pm

gunnerman wrote:
The A380 looks dead. And I can't see DL being enthusiastic about it either.



The 380 died when Bermuda II was scrapped and LHR was opened up. Since then we have seen VS struggle with profits and downgrade their capacity at LHR from larger 747's and half their 346's to smaller 330/787's.
 
gunnerman
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:45 pm

skipness1E wrote:
by738 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
BA use Gatwick partly to allow LHR travellelrs to spend Avios on leisure flights to keep them loyal, hence the % of paid J vs. redeemed J is important. .

To account for anything significant (in terms of aircraft layout and J class offering, I think that is a myth. Very few high accruing Avios'ers would contemplate a LGW Florida flight. TPA at a push.

Have you seen the demographics on some of the Caribbean flights? Barbados did well enough to have Concorde once a week, some of that leisure market is very well off.
A fair few Avios spenders are young enough to take their kids to Disney as well as collect points out of LHR, I really think you're wrong on this one. Paid premium travel has always been a huge challenge at Gatwick.It's the reason BA and VS have a smaller premium cabin at LGW.

Most passengers from LGW are certainly on a budget, but two Caribbean destinations have BA's First class: Barbados and St Lucia. Barbados has had First for decades, and St Lucia got First some years ago (can't remember the launch date). As the flights from St Lucia continue onto Port of Spain (five times a week) or Grenada (twice a week), then both these latter destinations just happen to get First as well but are not premium destinations.

As you can see from the tables below, the four cabin aircraft have far fewer seats than the three cabin aircraft, so BA won't deploy First unless the seats at the pointy end of the plane can be filled. All flights are operated by 777-200ERs.

Four cabin layout
14 First
48 Club World
40 World Traveller Plus
124 Traveller Plus
226 Total

Three cabin layout
40 Club World
24 World Traveller Plus
216 Traveller Plus
280 Total
 
8herveg
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:10 pm

gunnerman wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
by738 wrote:

To account for anything significant (in terms of aircraft layout and J class offering, I think that is a myth. Very few high accruing Avios'ers would contemplate a LGW Florida flight. TPA at a push.

Have you seen the demographics on some of the Caribbean flights? Barbados did well enough to have Concorde once a week, some of that leisure market is very well off.
A fair few Avios spenders are young enough to take their kids to Disney as well as collect points out of LHR, I really think you're wrong on this one. Paid premium travel has always been a huge challenge at Gatwick.It's the reason BA and VS have a smaller premium cabin at LGW.

Most passengers from LGW are certainly on a budget, but two Caribbean destinations have BA's First class: Barbados and St Lucia. Barbados has had First for decades, and St Lucia got First some years ago (can't remember the launch date). As the flights from St Lucia continue onto Port of Spain (five times a week) or Grenada (twice a week), then both these latter destinations just happen to get First as well but are not premium destinations.

As you can see from the tables below, the four cabin aircraft have far fewer seats than the three cabin aircraft, so BA won't deploy First unless the seats at the pointy end of the plane can be filled. All flights are operated by 777-200ERs.

Four cabin layout
14 First
48 Club World
40 World Traveller Plus
124 Traveller Plus
226 Total

Three cabin layout
40 Club World
24 World Traveller Plus
216 Traveller Plus
280 Total


I'm surprised Antigua doesn't get First Class as well - didn't it used to at one point as well?

How many First Class B777's are there at LGW, compared to three class?
 
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JannEejit
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Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:05 pm

crownvic wrote:
how will they replace the 5 747's to MCO several days a week??


Looking forward to seeing the A350-1000 departing GLA enroute to MCO. I will of course miss those majestic 744's when the time comes.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1151
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:57 pm

8herveg wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Have you seen the demographics on some of the Caribbean flights? Barbados did well enough to have Concorde once a week, some of that leisure market is very well off.
A fair few Avios spenders are young enough to take their kids to Disney as well as collect points out of LHR, I really think you're wrong on this one. Paid premium travel has always been a huge challenge at Gatwick.It's the reason BA and VS have a smaller premium cabin at LGW.

Most passengers from LGW are certainly on a budget, but two Caribbean destinations have BA's First class: Barbados and St Lucia. Barbados has had First for decades, and St Lucia got First some years ago (can't remember the launch date). As the flights from St Lucia continue onto Port of Spain (five times a week) or Grenada (twice a week), then both these latter destinations just happen to get First as well but are not premium destinations.

As you can see from the tables below, the four cabin aircraft have far fewer seats than the three cabin aircraft, so BA won't deploy First unless the seats at the pointy end of the plane can be filled. All flights are operated by 777-200ERs.

Four cabin layout
14 First
48 Club World
40 World Traveller Plus
124 Traveller Plus
226 Total

Three cabin layout
40 Club World
24 World Traveller Plus
216 Traveller Plus
280 Total


I'm surprised Antigua doesn't get First Class as well - didn't it used to at one point as well?

How many First Class B777's are there at LGW, compared to three class?

The three routes with First class are BGI, UVF (with POS and GND as mentioned) and Bermuda (BDA), all with a daily service. Of the 13 aircraft, there are four with the First cabin, namely G-VIIV, G-VIIW, G-VIIX and G-VIIY.
 
by738
Posts: 3116
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2000 7:59 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:35 am

skipness1E wrote:
I really think you're wrong on this one.
I thought you were basing it on fact rather than surmising but happy to have seen up to date evidence to contrary which unfortunately is not for this forum.
 
APYu
Posts: 516
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:23 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:47 pm

Premium travel is a challenge at LGW. Even though there are some F flights from there, and they are often full, the fares are much lower than an F destination ex LHR. We know BA are moving to more 3 class ops with these new re configs. I expect LGW to be amongst the first to move that way.
We'd like to welcome in particular our Executive Club members and those joining us from our Oneworld alliance partners.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4854
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:37 pm

by738 wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
I really think you're wrong on this one.
I thought you were basing it on fact rather than surmising but happy to have seen up to date evidence to contrary which unfortunately is not for this forum.

Do you ever add anything around here except snide retorts? You seem to really dislike me so send me a message and be a man instead of sniping from the sidelines. Or if you have something to add to the debate, please add it. A precedent? A fact we're ignoring? A playing of the ball and not the man? Were we ever married? X

You really have seen confidential BA revenue data??? A genuine insider! Tell us more.
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Topic Author
Posts: 7526
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:43 pm

Hell of a Honeymoon night I bet. :box:
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
VC10er
Posts: 4273
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 6:25 am

Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:22 pm

I haven't flown Virgin Atlantic in many years. It looks like the J seat is virtually the same as it was on a 747 10 years ago. Is that seat type/style still popular? I hated the fact the window was behind me, and that I'd have to flip the seat over to make it a bed. I ultimately went back to BA - which was far less cool, but far more comfortable! Those "coffins in a row" would seem so out of date to me today.
To Most the Sky is The Limit, For me, the Sky is Home.
 
Arion640
Posts: 3112
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:14 pm

gunnerman wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
by738 wrote:

To account for anything significant (in terms of aircraft layout and J class offering, I think that is a myth. Very few high accruing Avios'ers would contemplate a LGW Florida flight. TPA at a push.

Have you seen the demographics on some of the Caribbean flights? Barbados did well enough to have Concorde once a week, some of that leisure market is very well off.
A fair few Avios spenders are young enough to take their kids to Disney as well as collect points out of LHR, I really think you're wrong on this one. Paid premium travel has always been a huge challenge at Gatwick.It's the reason BA and VS have a smaller premium cabin at LGW.

Most passengers from LGW are certainly on a budget, but two Caribbean destinations have BA's First class: Barbados and St Lucia. Barbados has had First for decades, and St Lucia got First some years ago (can't remember the launch date). As the flights from St Lucia continue onto Port of Spain (five times a week) or Grenada (twice a week), then both these latter destinations just happen to get First as well but are not premium destinations.

As you can see from the tables below, the four cabin aircraft have far fewer seats than the three cabin aircraft, so BA won't deploy First unless the seats at the pointy end of the plane can be filled. All flights are operated by 777-200ERs.

Four cabin layout
14 First
48 Club World
40 World Traveller Plus
124 Traveller Plus
226 Total

Three cabin layout
40 Club World
24 World Traveller Plus
216 Traveller Plus
280 Total


Soon to change when the Gatwick 777's go ten a breast, i think with club going down the 30's too.
 
gunnerman
Posts: 1151
Joined: Fri May 19, 2017 7:55 pm

Re: Virgin Atlantic 747 replacement program for Gatwick Ops

Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:38 pm

Arion640 wrote:
gunnerman wrote:
skipness1E wrote:
Have you seen the demographics on some of the Caribbean flights? Barbados did well enough to have Concorde once a week, some of that leisure market is very well off.
A fair few Avios spenders are young enough to take their kids to Disney as well as collect points out of LHR, I really think you're wrong on this one. Paid premium travel has always been a huge challenge at Gatwick.It's the reason BA and VS have a smaller premium cabin at LGW.

Most passengers from LGW are certainly on a budget, but two Caribbean destinations have BA's First class: Barbados and St Lucia. Barbados has had First for decades, and St Lucia got First some years ago (can't remember the launch date). As the flights from St Lucia continue onto Port of Spain (five times a week) or Grenada (twice a week), then both these latter destinations just happen to get First as well but are not premium destinations.

As you can see from the tables below, the four cabin aircraft have far fewer seats than the three cabin aircraft, so BA won't deploy First unless the seats at the pointy end of the plane can be filled. All flights are operated by 777-200ERs.

Four cabin layout
14 First
48 Club World
40 World Traveller Plus
124 Traveller Plus
226 Total

Three cabin layout
40 Club World
24 World Traveller Plus
216 Traveller Plus
280 Total


Soon to change when the Gatwick 777's go ten a breast, i think with club going down the 30's too.

Reminds me of the unloved days of AML when BA had 10-across in its DC-10s and 777s.

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