As if Chinese carriers do not have enough planes on order:

China Aviation Supplies Holding Company (CAS) has signed with Airbus a General Terms Agreement (GTA) for the purchase of a total of 140 aircraft. The agreement comprises of 100 A320 Family aircraft and 40 A350 XWB Family aircraft, reflecting the strong demand of Chinese airlines in all market segments including domestic, low cost, regional and international long haul.

The GTA was signed in Berlin by Tom Enders, Airbus CEO, and Sun Bo, Executive Vice President of CAS, in the presence of visiting Chinese President Xi Jinping and German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Press release
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... irbus.html

Interesting. There are quite a few up and coming airlines who could well take small tranches, plus CA who only have ten A350s on firm order so could certainly use more. Indeed, CZ and MU have just 20 A350s each on order too.

KarelXWB wrote:

As if Chinese carriers do not have enough planes on order:

China Aviation Supplies Holding Company (CAS) has signed with Airbus a General Terms Agreement (GTA) for the purchase of a total of 140 aircraft. The agreement comprises of 100 A320 Family aircraft and 40 A350 XWB Family aircraft, reflecting the strong demand of Chinese airlines in all market segments including domestic, low cost, regional and international long haul.

The GTA was signed in Berlin by Tom Enders, Airbus CEO, and Sun Bo, Executive Vice President of CAS, in the presence of visiting Chinese President Xi Jinping and German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Press release
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... irbus.html

Post PAS coup well done Airbus, who do think these are going to, is this firm?, not sure what a GTA is.

Great news for all involved. Any info on the variants of both families that are selected ? (or will this be done later ?)

Ka-ching. BBC world news is saying it's worth 22.5 billion dollars or something.

chiki wrote:

KarelXWB wrote:

As if Chinese carriers do not have enough planes on order:

China Aviation Supplies Holding Company (CAS) has signed with Airbus a General Terms Agreement (GTA) for the purchase of a total of 140 aircraft. The agreement comprises of 100 A320 Family aircraft and 40 A350 XWB Family aircraft, reflecting the strong demand of Chinese airlines in all market segments including domestic, low cost, regional and international long haul.

The GTA was signed in Berlin by Tom Enders, Airbus CEO, and Sun Bo, Executive Vice President of CAS, in the presence of visiting Chinese President Xi Jinping and German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

Press release
http://www.airbus.com/newsroom/press-re ... irbus.html

Post PAS coup well done Airbus, who do think these are going to, is this firm?, not sure what a GTA is.

Not firm a GTA has to be firmed later. I would compare a GTA to a MOU. I think it is a general order for several airlines and details have to be cleared before that GTA is firmed.

Fantastic news for Airbus and I hope it involves some -1000s...

Theseus wrote:

Great news for all involved. Any info on the variants of both families that are selected ? (or will this be done later ?)

I just hope this new order is not previously "Unidentified customer"

http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/airbus-auftrag-china-103.html
Airbus-Chef Tom Enders sprach von "einem der größten Verträge, die Airbus in einer langen Zeit abgeschlossen hat". Ihm zufolge befindet sich der Flugzeugbauer zudem in Gesprächen mit China über eine Lieferung des Großraumflugzeugs A380. Das werde aber nicht über Nacht geschehen und müsse intensiv besprochen werden.

In short, Enders sees ann opportunity for some A380s in China too, but was not able to announce a deal with today's order.
I wonder if there is a real possibility or if this is just marketing and stockmarket talk. China could probably absorb the capacity, tbh just 100 A320 is on the low side. 40 A350 fit the expectation much more.

mxaxai wrote:

http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/airbus-auftrag-china-103.html
Airbus-Chef Tom Enders sprach von "einem der größten Verträge, die Airbus in einer langen Zeit abgeschlossen hat". Ihm zufolge befindet sich der Flugzeugbauer zudem in Gesprächen mit China über eine Lieferung des Großraumflugzeugs A380. Das werde aber nicht über Nacht geschehen und müsse intensiv besprochen werden.

In short, Enders sees ann opportunity for some A380s in China too, but was not able to announce a deal with today's order.
I wonder if there is a real possibility or if this is just marketing and stockmarket talk. China could probably absorb the capacity, tbh just 100 A320 is on the low side. 40 A350 fit the expectation much more.

Given CZ's exerience with A380, doubt it. Although CA might be able to make that work but they already have 748.

Will this Chinese shopping spree ever end?

The numbers really don't say anything as it's a certainty that they will order even more, probably sooner than you would expect.

40 new A350 orders is an awesome deal. THe widebody market has been soft, so that is even more impressive.

Very impressive widebody order to say the least.

China sure seems to have a "boatload" of frames on order. Will Xi Jinping leverage this order and any future ones with European heads of states for the Comac 919 I wonder? If I were Jinping I sure would have put a bug into Merkel's ear about letting the C919 in!!!

Internal rumour also had that Hainan Airlines was to sign a order of 75 A320neos at PAS via its Avalon subsidiary, but the deal went down after they wanted a last-min discount which only succeeded in annoying John Leahy. Avolon ultimately went with the MAX instead during the airshow. Not sure if this order would be included in this 100 plane order or not though but I expect this order would eventually come back some time.

Fantastic news!! Does this push the A350 over the 900 order mark?

Regarding the aircraft variants

The A320 planes will be a mixture of the older CEO and the new NEO version with revamped engines, while the majority of the A350 orders are for the -900 model. The deal is flexible pending negotiations with the airlines.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN19Q1A1

Momo1435 wrote:

Will this Chinese shopping spree ever end?

The numbers really don't say anything as it's a certainty that they will order even more, probably sooner than you would expect.

No where near to ending as still need tons of aircraft still.

c933103 wrote:

mxaxai wrote:

http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/airbus-auftrag-china-103.html
Airbus-Chef Tom Enders sprach von "einem der größten Verträge, die Airbus in einer langen Zeit abgeschlossen hat". Ihm zufolge befindet sich der Flugzeugbauer zudem in Gesprächen mit China über eine Lieferung des Großraumflugzeugs A380. Das werde aber nicht über Nacht geschehen und müsse intensiv besprochen werden.

In short, Enders sees ann opportunity for some A380s in China too, but was not able to announce a deal with today's order.
I wonder if there is a real possibility or if this is just marketing and stockmarket talk. China could probably absorb the capacity, tbh just 100 A320 is on the low side. 40 A350 fit the expectation much more.

Given CZ's exerience with A380, doubt it. Although CA might be able to make that work but they already have 748.

Doubt CA would make it work too because aren't they having trouble placing all on services.

TheGeordielad wrote:

c933103 wrote:

mxaxai wrote:

Given CZ's exerience with A380, doubt it. Although CA might be able to make that work but they already have 748.

Doubt CA would make it work too because aren't they having trouble placing all on services.

True, longhaul travel from & to china is quite lacking compared to its economy and population. Still, PEK would be one of the best places to operate A380s at. Use them for the large european & american hubs (FRA,CDG,LHR; LAX,SFO, not sure about NYC) and perhaps 10 to 12 can be filled. China has a strong economy, limited room, an extraordinarily large population and a significant disapora especially in the USA. I'm thinking that political and/or internal CA problems are the major reasons for CA's (or even chinese airlines overall) lackluster longhaul widebody sales.

mxaxai wrote:

TheGeordielad wrote:

c933103 wrote:

Given CZ's exerience with A380, doubt it. Although CA might be able to make that work but they already have 748.

Doubt CA would make it work too because aren't they having trouble placing all on services.

True, longhaul travel from & to china is quite lacking compared to its economy and population. Still, PEK would be one of the best places to operate A380s at. Use them for the large european & american hubs (FRA,CDG,LHR; LAX,SFO, not sure about NYC) and perhaps 10 to 12 can be filled. China has a strong economy, limited room, an extraordinarily large population and a significant disapora especially in the USA. I'm thinking that political and/or internal CA problems are the major reasons for CA's (or even chinese airlines overall) lackluster longhaul widebody sales.

Interesting comment. With the very depressed long-haul yields from secondary cities in China we are seeing now I just wonder how many routes can Chinese carriers open up. Would be great for customer as that means yields can be further depressed. Excellent news for customers like me who are HKG-based.
(Currently CA is offering ~US$400 return fares (incl. taxes) for HKG-MAD/WAW and many other European destinations, how sustainable these routes are is really beyond me)

I can definitely see part of this A350 order going to CA as they currently only has ten on order.

Great order for Airbus. I do wonder when Comac will announce the C929 their twin aisle jet

c933103 wrote:

mxaxai wrote:

http://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/airbus-auftrag-china-103.html
Airbus-Chef Tom Enders sprach von "einem der größten Verträge, die Airbus in einer langen Zeit abgeschlossen hat". Ihm zufolge befindet sich der Flugzeugbauer zudem in Gesprächen mit China über eine Lieferung des Großraumflugzeugs A380. Das werde aber nicht über Nacht geschehen und müsse intensiv besprochen werden.

In short, Enders sees ann opportunity for some A380s in China too, but was not able to announce a deal with today's order.
I wonder if there is a real possibility or if this is just marketing and stockmarket talk. China could probably absorb the capacity, tbh just 100 A320 is on the low side. 40 A350 fit the expectation much more.

Given CZ's exerience with A380, doubt it. Although CA might be able to make that work but they already have 748.

If airlines in the most populated nation on the planet cannot make the 380 work, there won't be any forthcoming orders. Likely not from any airline anywhere.

c933103 wrote:

Given CZ's exerience with A380, doubt it.

The main problem for CZ was, not being aloud to use those A380 on the routes they were planed for, the government was protecting CA.

c933103 wrote:

If airlines in the most populated nation on the planet cannot make the 380 work, there won't be any forthcoming orders. Likely not from any airline anywhere.

A380 is a plane that depends on high yield passengers. Customer service in some parts of the world is something "still in progress". $5 champaign and crew sleeping all over the cabin with no pants, in 1st class, as examples:

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... ate-suite/
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... guangzhou/

scbriml wrote:

The A320s are bread and butter (almost boring), but keep the money flowing in.

The A350 order is very nice. I've thought for a while that China needs more A350s.

juliuswong wrote:

I just hope this new order is not previously "Unidentified customer"

I can't speak for the A320 part, but the A350s are certainly new.

Thanks. It is certainly good to see the China government balance both Boeing and Airbus product. A350 will look good in MU, CZ and CA colours.

Understanding some of the concern here regarding the shopping spree. I find it diffictult to digest sometimes. However we need to read in greater details. Many of the recent big orders are meant to balance the trade deficit between China and EU/USA. Previous batches of hundreds were meant to replace older jets like MD-80 family, A300, A310, B737 Classic, B757, Dornier 328Jet, and some other smaller turbojet or turboprop which are in small amount. Then they moved onto B767, B777 Classic, older A320 family, A330, A340 and more recently slightly younger A320 and 737NG. There are hundreds of aircraft to be returned and retired in next ten years, so China government will take every state visit as an opportunity to seek trade bilateral (aka bargaining for big amount and discounted rate) for both EU and USA. And flash yo.media:"Hey, thousands of jobs created for both parties? Isn't it good?" :p

In addition, recently CZ announced a base at Urumqi, a region where aviation development is lacking compared to other cities especially those at coastal area. I would say Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang are the last domestic frontier for all airlines in Mainland China.

Is Xi or Li visiting USA soon?

juliuswong wrote:

scbriml wrote:

The A320s are bread and butter (almost boring), but keep the money flowing in.

The A350 order is very nice. I've thought for a while that China needs more A350s.

juliuswong wrote:

I just hope this new order is not previously "Unidentified customer"

I can't speak for the A320 part, but the A350s are certainly new.

Thanks. It is certainly good to see the China government balance both Boeing and Airbus product. A350 will look good in MU, CZ and CA colours.

Understanding some of the concern here regarding the shopping spree. I find it diffictult to digest sometimes. However we need to read in greater details. Many of the recent big orders are meant to balance the trade deficit between China and EU/USA. Previous batches of hundreds were meant to replace older jets like MD-80 family, A300, A310, B737 Classic, B757, Dornier 328Jet, and some other smaller turbojet or turboprop which are in small amount. Then they moved onto B767, B777 Classic, older A320 family, A330, A340 and more recently slightly younger A320 and 737NG. There are hundreds of aircraft to be returned and retired in next ten years, so China government will take every state visit as an opportunity to seek trade bilateral (aka bargaining for big amount and discounted rate) for both EU and USA. And flash yo.media:"Hey, thousands of jobs created for both parties? Isn't it good?" :p

In addition, recently CZ announced a base at Urumqi, a region where aviation development is lacking compared to other cities especially those at coastal area. I would say Inner Mongolia and Xinjiang are the last domestic frontier for all airlines in Mainland China.

Is Xi or Li visiting USA soon?

Aren't CZ using Urumqi as a stop for narrow body flights to some of the Stan countries and other eastern Asia destinations?

Which engines for the A320s?

lightsaber wrote:

Which engines for the A320s?

>> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1367497&p=19652207#p19651389

A330freak wrote:

Regarding the aircraft variants

The A320 planes will be a mixture of the older CEO and the new NEO version with revamped engines, while the majority of the A350 orders are for the -900 model. The deal is flexible pending negotiations with the airlines.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN19Q1A1

Wonder why this announcement could not have been leveraged during the recent Paris air show?

Frontier 14

Frontier14 wrote:

Wonder why this announcement could not have been leveraged during the recent Paris air show?
Frontier 14

Because they like to make these announcements during bilateral meetings which occurred today in Germany between Xi and Merkel.

eamondzhang wrote:

Internal rumour also had that Hainan Airlines was to sign a order of 75 A320neos at PAS via its Avalon subsidiary, but the deal went down after they wanted a last-min discount which only succeeded in annoying John Leahy. Avolon ultimately went with the MAX instead during the airshow. Not sure if this order would be included in this 100 plane order or not though but I expect this order would eventually come back some time.

If true good on the salesman for saying no.

Nice order. Are these still A32XCEO? Or NEO's?

On a related note, when will the Chinese line be converted to NEO?

Since the backlog on Airbus and Boeing narrow bodies is in the high thousands, I wonder who will be the ballsy customer to ask for a 200 to 300 order for a new narrow body that flies 2025, with new engine tech and materials.... BTW congrats airbus on the A359´s... huge order..

lightsaber wrote:

Which engines for the A320s?

I guess that is one of the details still to be worked and depends on the airlines taking the birds.

With the slots issue at Shanghai, Beijing and other cities there could be a market for an A380 regional type of aircraft. High capacity, lower weight as it wouldn't need to do huge distances.

China could make it work. Use the beefed-up undercarriage designed for the A380F and fly it like the old 747SR on China's trunk routes.

TheRedBaron wrote:

Since the backlog on Airbus and Boeing narrow bodies is in the high thousands, I wonder who will be the ballsy customer to ask for a 200 to 300 order for a new narrow body that flies 2025, with new engine tech and materials.... BTW congrats airbus on the A359´s... huge order..

Note that the Reuters article says "most of the A350's are A350-900's" - implies that there are at least some A350-1000's in the mix.

A personal observation - no A330's

Rgds

StTim wrote:

eamondzhang wrote:

Internal rumour also had that Hainan Airlines was to sign a order of 75 A320neos at PAS via its Avalon subsidiary, but the deal went down after they wanted a last-min discount which only succeeded in annoying John Leahy. Avolon ultimately went with the MAX instead during the airshow. Not sure if this order would be included in this 100 plane order or not though but I expect this order would eventually come back some time.

If true good on the salesman for saying no.

Really? Without knowing the details, being annoyed seems like a weird reason to call off a deal for 75 frames. I'm going to guess that it went below what Airbus was willing to do.

Dutchy wrote:

Nice order. Are these still A32XCEO? Or NEO's?

It's a mix -- see #31 above.

mjoelnir wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Which engines for the A320s?

I guess that is one of the details still to be worked and depends on the airlines taking the birds.

I'm getting that idea. I was hoping there had been a leak. At least what fraction of CEOs and NEOs!

Jayafe wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Which engines for the A320s?

>> viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1367497&p=19652207#p19651389

A330freak wrote:

Regarding the aircraft variants

The A320 planes will be a mixture of the older CEO and the new NEO version with revamped engines, while the majority of the A350 orders are for the -900 model. The deal is flexible pending negotiations with the airlines.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN19Q1A1

Which tells me nothing other than some CEOs and some NEOs....


Lightsaber

Channex757 wrote:

With the slots issue at Shanghai, Beijing and other cities there could be a market for an A380 regional type of aircraft. High capacity, lower weight as it wouldn't need to do huge distances.

China could make it work. Use the beefed-up undercarriage designed for the A380F and fly it like the old 747SR on China's trunk routes.

Exactly why I think Airbus should bite the bullet and redesign the wings for the PLUS and lighten where possible. Offer It with smaller fuel tanks and it should make it good for SR. Would be a worthwhile stopgap until new engines come along. Current MLG should be good too.

Might even be worthwhile to do a buy back of A380s and refit them with the new wings and wingbox for resell.

lightsaber wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

Which engines for the A320s?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN19Q1A1

Which tells me nothing other than some CEOs and some NEOs....


Lightsaber[/quote]



Well there was this in said piece:

"Enders said he expected up to 50 percent of the A320 family planes would come from the Airbus final assembly line in China."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-airb ... SKBN19Q1A1


Doesn't that imply that half will be Ceo's.... They are not making neo's in china. Right?

mffoda wrote:

lightsaber wrote:

mjoelnir wrote:

Doesn't that imply that half will be Ceo's.... They are not making neo's in china. Right?

Google says the neo will be manufactured in China starting July.

Jayafe wrote:

c933103 wrote:

If airlines in the most populated nation on the planet cannot make the 380 work, there won't be any forthcoming orders. Likely not from any airline anywhere.

A380 is a plane that depends on high yield passengers. Customer service in some parts of the world is something "still in progress". $5 champaign and crew sleeping all over the cabin with no pants, in 1st class, as examples:

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... ate-suite/
http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.com/ ... guangzhou/

It doesn't depend on high yield passengers with its' very low CASM.

Side note on A350s - most carriers who started with (relatively) low numbers of A350, are now topping up, as is probably with this order as well (CI). An indication of happy customers?

Cheers,
Adam

gloom wrote:

Side note on A350s - most carriers who started with (relatively) low numbers of A350, are now topping up, as is probably with this order as well (CI). An indication of happy customers?

Cheers,
Adam

For sure they have proven to be extraordinary airliners. But one thing to note that CAS is a Chinese government company, it doesn't order aircrafts for Taiwanese airlines like CI. Though a seperate CI A350 order is highly expected.

juliuswong wrote:

Theseus wrote:

Great news for all involved. Any info on the variants of both families that are selected ? (or will this be done later ?)

I just hope this new order is not previously "Unidentified customer"

This is not about commercial interaction with Boeing.