grbauc
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:24 pm

grbauc wrote:
sxf24 wrote:
grbauc wrote:

ADD LAX to your List. Amazing what they DL has done.


Smart, probably. Amazing, not so much. Delta closed two hubs, CVG and MEM, and allocated the capacity, along with capacity from other hubs, to new focus cities in larger markets. Both AA and US have done the same thing in the past.


AA has a tons of new planes coming in, there can be a few held back or new ones used for test and building opportunities routs available.


My smart part comes from the hard places they have built up more so then the closed hubs.
 
n7371f
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:30 am

sxf24 wrote:
n7371f wrote:
atl100million wrote:
DL built SEA as a gateway to Asia but quickly realized that they needed to build a hub serving enough markets in the US and the world to be able to offer a viable alternative to AS. They have succeeded at doing that. DL competes well in markets where low cost carriers are large because DL sells a global network which has value to many passengers. As much as many people want to think that AS has a loyal following, the reality is that DL has built a decent following in SEA and PDX and most any well-run airline could do the same. People inherently love competition and choice.
DL now carries almost as much local SEA revenue as AS does despite having fewer flights - because DL has more higher value eastern US and international passengers and also uses widebodies. Many pople don't realize that DL's SEA hub has about as many seats to Asia as UA has from ORD and EWR.
DL is at a pause in the end of the number of flights it can add until more gates are added but they can use larger aircraft and the C series particularly will allow small narrowbody flights to operate at seat costs comparable to larger aircraft. DL will undoubtedly add a few more key markets - several Texas cities are undoubtedly on the list.


Not quite.

Research the issue on this site as it's been well documented. In short form, DL launched the SEA INTL hub with expectation that AS would continue to feed DL at SEA. When AS announced further AA cooperation & declined DL requests to cut marketing deals with BA, QA, JL & Emirates, DL and BoD signed off on a plan to build a domestic hub at SEA. Shortly after the initial schedule load, Brad Tilden called Richard Anderson to apologize & say he agreed to the 4 INTL marketing alliance cessations. Anderson referred the call to his legal department and hung up on him.


Not true.


It is true. But you don't have to believe me if you don't want to.
 
n7371f
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:33 am

ASFlyer wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Shortly after the initial schedule load, Brad Tilden called Richard Anderson to apologize & say he agreed to the 4 INTL marketing alliance cessations. Anderson referred the call to his legal department and hung up on him.


Love the made up drama... Sounds like an episode of that old TV show "Dallas"


Yep. I made the whole thing up. Nothing close to the truth.
 
ASFlyer
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:33 am

n7371f wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
n7371f wrote:
Shortly after the initial schedule load, Brad Tilden called Richard Anderson to apologize & say he agreed to the 4 INTL marketing alliance cessations. Anderson referred the call to his legal department and hung up on him.


Love the made up drama... Sounds like an episode of that old TV show "Dallas"


Yep. I made the whole thing up. Nothing close to the truth.


I already figured as much
 
NichCage
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:18 pm

I recently flew in SEA on AC 542/543, and the airport was sure busy. Even if Delta wanted to grow out of SEA, the airport is congested and probably wouldn't allow for much growth. When I arrived at SEA on AC542, we had to wait 30 minutes for gate A14. From what I saw, most gates in the Main Terminal were full. Even the South Satellite was busy and all filled up. I saw a Hainan Airlines 788, XiamenAir 788, All Nippon Airways 788, and several Delta widebodies and even a few narrowbodies parked there. The airport was for sure congested at the point, even on the ground.

Otherwise, on my return trip on AC542, the airport was busy for sure. The plane taking me back to YYZ arrived on time, but we were delayed for an hour on the ground because of a late baggage cart, not because of the airport being busy. Beside us was DL199 to ICN in the A Gates, most likely because the South Satellite was full. In the South Satellite, from what I could see, I saw two Hawaiian A332's, an EVA Air 77W, and some Delta narrowbodies and widebodies. I saw some later afternoon traffic again fill up the gates, which was a All Nippon Airways 788, British Airways 744, and a Lufthansa 744 as well as some Delta narrowbodies and widebodies. I might not have seen some of the other planes parked there, but I bet it gets pretty busy at the Main Terminal and South Satellite during the morning and afternoon hours.
 
jbs2886
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:25 pm

NichCage wrote:
I recently flew in SEA on AC 542/543, and the airport was sure busy. Even if Delta wanted to grow out of SEA, the airport is congested and probably wouldn't allow for much growth. When I arrived at SEA on AC542, we had to wait 30 minutes for gate A14. From what I saw, most gates in the Main Terminal were full. Even the South Satellite was busy and all filled up. I saw a Hainan Airlines 788, XiamenAir 788, All Nippon Airways 788, and several Delta widebodies and even a few narrowbodies parked there. The airport was for sure congested at the point, even on the ground.

Otherwise, on my return trip on AC542, the airport was busy for sure. The plane taking me back to YYZ arrived on time, but we were delayed for an hour on the ground because of a late baggage cart, not because of the airport being busy. Beside us was DL199 to ICN in the A Gates, most likely because the South Satellite was full. In the South Satellite, from what I could see, I saw two Hawaiian A332's, an EVA Air 77W, and some Delta narrowbodies and widebodies. I saw some later afternoon traffic again fill up the gates, which was a All Nippon Airways 788, British Airways 744, and a Lufthansa 744 as well as some Delta narrowbodies and widebodies. I might not have seen some of the other planes parked there, but I bet it gets pretty busy at the Main Terminal and South Satellite during the morning and afternoon hours.


This is precisely why DL is limited in its expansion. A lot of posters will shout lack of further expansion means failure, but it ignores the state of SEA airport. While it does appear SEA got behind, I don't think anyone predicted one of the US3 building a hub and AS expanding as much as it did - at the same time.

Once the new FIS opens, DL will expand international flights. With more gates in general, DL will add domestic.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:43 pm

NichCage wrote:
I recently flew in SEA on AC 542/543, and the airport was sure busy. Even if Delta wanted to grow out of SEA, the airport is congested and probably wouldn't allow for much growth. When I arrived at SEA on AC542, we had to wait 30 minutes for gate A14. From what I saw, most gates in the Main Terminal were full. Even the South Satellite was busy and all filled up. I saw a Hainan Airlines 788, XiamenAir 788, All Nippon Airways 788, and several Delta widebodies and even a few narrowbodies parked there. The airport was for sure congested at the point, even on the ground.

Otherwise, on my return trip on AC542, the airport was busy for sure. The plane taking me back to YYZ arrived on time, but we were delayed for an hour on the ground because of a late baggage cart, not because of the airport being busy. Beside us was DL199 to ICN in the A Gates, most likely because the South Satellite was full. In the South Satellite, from what I could see, I saw two Hawaiian A332's, an EVA Air 77W, and some Delta narrowbodies and widebodies. I saw some later afternoon traffic again fill up the gates, which was a All Nippon Airways 788, British Airways 744, and a Lufthansa 744 as well as some Delta narrowbodies and widebodies. I might not have seen some of the other planes parked there, but I bet it gets pretty busy at the Main Terminal and South Satellite during the morning and afternoon hours.


When I flew out of SEA recently, the entire time I waited for our delayed flight, then boarded, the ANA R2D2 787 was sitting waiting for a gate. DL has done amazing in their growth at SEA but they are seriously hemmed in right now. They've been a bit creative but there's only so much they can do until the new FIS is done. Even then, it won't be ideal. SEA could use a new terminal to the north, or that long expansion on the end of A, but again we're many years away.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:35 pm

Construction started in 2016 on the expansion of the N concourse for AS...it won't be finished until they say 2nd quarter 2021 so five years to build. Expansion of the A and S concourses and new FIS are both I believe still in the planning stage...I'd be shocked to see any new gates added for DL until 2025. Their estimate of groundbreaking for the FIS addition in 1st quarter 2017 has come and gone.
 
BA
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:09 am

The expansion of the North Satellite for Alaska Airlines, is the only physical expansion that will add additional gates, and only 8 additional gates, and as mentioned previously, it won't be until 2021 when the expansion is complete.

The construction of the new FIS facility will not add any new gates, it will just convert most of the gates on Concourse A into international gates, and relieve the bottleneck of the small antiquated FIS facility in the South Satellite.

Delta is getting two additional gates on Concourse B by converting two wide body gates into four narrowbody gates. There will be a similar "optimization" done on the South Satellite, while maintaining the widebody gate capability.

It will still be many more years afterwards before more gates get added, likely via the construction of a new North Terminal.

So for the foreseeable future, remote stands will be the norm at Sea-Tac, for a number of flights during peak periods. They're almost finished reactivating gate D6, with the construction of an enclosed bus ramp, Concourse B will also have a ground level hold room completed soon for bus operations, and a separate terminal next to Concourse D for hard stand operations is going to be built next year.

There are already three buses, with 10 more on the way, to enable an extensive operation. The Port of Seattle is leasing them all to a new airline managed consortium, called the Seattle-Tacoma Airline Consortium, which will operate and manage all hard stand operations at Sea-Tac.

http://www.portseattle.org/ABOUT/COMMIS ... _RM_6e.pdf
http://www.portseattle.org/ABOUT/COMMIS ... _RM_6a.pdf
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
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TransWorldOne
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:22 am

As others have stated before, Delta has expanded to 160 peak day departures at SEA so they are slightly ahead of where they said they'd be at this time. Many routes continue to see upgauges and additional frequencies. Delta is invested in SEA and not going anywhere anytime soon. As for more international expansion once the new FIS facility opens? I wouldn't expect too much. TPE is really the only other Asia destination I can see Delta serving from Seattle. I also wouldn't be shocked to see them go head to head with Icelandair like they do in NYC and MSP.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1657
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:22 am

VCEflyboy wrote:
I supposed it doesn't help that with the exchange rate being as such Seattle folks can now fly from YVR close to free


Living here 10 years, I've only known one person who flew out of YVR rather than SEA. They did it once. The traffic, hotel and border wait negated any perceived savings.
 
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N717TW
Posts: 540
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:04 pm

KGRB wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:

They're simply a replacement for their DC-9's....I mean 717's. Besides sipping less fuel I don't see why they'd be any game changer.


Seriously? Because they are far more efficient with substantially more range. The only thing similar to a 717 is size.

:checkmark: Besides, the 717 isn't being replaced by the C-Series. There may come a time when that is the case, but for now, all indications are of the 717s shifting eastward to ATL, MSP, DTW and NYC.


On today's (7/13/17) quarterly investor call, it was announced that the CS100 will fly from NYC first. So its looks like it won't simply be a west coast based plane. I just picked your response KGRB mostly because I couldn't locate who originally indicated who said the CS100 would operate first out of LAX or SEA.
 
n7371f
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:19 am

Got a check of internal DL numbers for 1st half of year and SEA hub is top performer in DL network based on the 6 "major" metrics. And, yes, one of them is profitability.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4994
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:48 am

N717TW wrote:
KGRB wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Seriously? Because they are far more efficient with substantially more range. The only thing similar to a 717 is size.

:checkmark: Besides, the 717 isn't being replaced by the C-Series. There may come a time when that is the case, but for now, all indications are of the 717s shifting eastward to ATL, MSP, DTW and NYC.


On today's (7/13/17) quarterly investor call, it was announced that the CS100 will fly from NYC first. So its looks like it won't simply be a west coast based plane. I just picked your response KGRB mostly because I couldn't locate who originally indicated who said the CS100 would operate first out of LAX or SEA.


Could that mean that more 717's will fly out West?
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1640
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:30 am

N717TW wrote:
KGRB wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:

Seriously? Because they are far more efficient with substantially more range. The only thing similar to a 717 is size.

:checkmark: Besides, the 717 isn't being replaced by the C-Series. There may come a time when that is the case, but for now, all indications are of the 717s shifting eastward to ATL, MSP, DTW and NYC.


On today's (7/13/17) quarterly investor call, it was announced that the CS100 will fly from NYC first. So its looks like it won't simply be a west coast based plane. I just picked your response KGRB mostly because I couldn't locate who originally indicated who said the CS100 would operate first out of LAX or SEA.


None of that means it won't be a West Coast plane. He said it would operate from NYC. Didn't say it would be based there.
 
n7371f
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:10 pm

When the CS100 purchase was presented to the BOD, a presentation focused on the usability of the CS100 there. But there were also presentations on other areas of the network. SEA was supposed to be the first, or one of the first, but markets change in 2-3 years and the now that the M88 is being cut and the M90 heavy checks are coming in way above planned, NYC has a bigger need.
 
Sightseer
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:06 pm

n7371f wrote:
Got a check of internal DL numbers for 1st half of year and SEA hub is top performer in DL network based on the 6 "major" metrics. And, yes, one of them is profitability.


What metrics are those? Are they purely financial or do they also include operational statistics (on-time performance, etc)?
 
Shields
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:04 am

DL is adding a second daily R/T between SEA and AUS in October on an A319. TBH, I wonder whether this is more reflective of DL's ambitions in Austin than in Seattle.
 
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ERJ170
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:10 am

Shields wrote:
DL is adding a second daily R/T between SEA and AUS in October on an A319. TBH, I wonder whether this is more reflective of DL's ambitions in Austin than in Seattle.


What ambition is that in which DL has in AUS? All I see are hub and focus city routes... what's the implication DL has to fly any P2P routes that would drive ambitions. Just wondering...
Aiming High and going far..
 
Shields
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:18 am

There are unsubstantiated rumors in other forums of a potential satellite pilot base in either AUS or SAT. Moreover, DL has made some impressive additions in Austin within the past two years (e.g., LAX is now 3x/A319; JFK is 3x/A319; BOS-A319; RDU-CR9). Like you say, I can only point to additions to DL hubs/focus cities. However, it does seem that DL has engaged in targeted growth in both tech-heavy and "hot" cities (e.g, AUS, RDU, BOS, BNA). It seems conceivable that DL could make a few more additions out of AUS, such as BNA and SFO.
 
tphuang
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:38 am

Shields wrote:
There are unsubstantiated rumors in other forums of a potential satellite pilot base in either AUS or SAT. Moreover, DL has made some impressive additions in Austin within the past two years (e.g., LAX is now 3x/A319; JFK is 3x/A319; BOS-A319; RDU-CR9). Like you say, I can only point to additions to DL hubs/focus cities. However, it does seem that DL has engaged in targeted growth in both tech-heavy and "hot" cities (e.g, AUS, RDU, BOS, BNA). It seems conceivable that DL could make a few more additions out of AUS, such as BNA and SFO.

Agreed, it always starts as additions to hubs and then they start adding more flights and voila, delta has a clear strategy going after cities with tech base imo. Once it creates enough tech hubs, then it can attack the holy grail sfo.
 
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TransWorldOne
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:27 am

In addition to the increased AUS flights, DL will add daily service from SEA to MFR next spring. Great to see continued growth at Delta's SEA hub!
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Is DL slowing down their SEA expansion?

Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:25 am

These "tech" hubs are have good organic growth, transient populations, younger-millenial types with a higher propensity to travel, and brand/airline agnostic people. Makes sense to go after the markets that are seeing organic economic growth, particularly in the demographics that are most likely to purchase air travel.

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