edmaircraft
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Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to open exit door

Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:49 am

Boom, another one...

A passenger on DL129 from Seattle to Beijing this evening (July 6) tried to enter the cockpit of the aircraft (76W) and allegedly injured three people while he was at it. Sounds like he/she attacked an F/A and injured another passenger who was possibly trying to restrain him/her. The aircraft returned to Seattle, landing at approximately 1940L, and the passenger was taken into police custody.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/06/us/delta- ... index.html

http://kdvr.com/2017/07/06/3-injured-on ... r-cockpit/

Thoughts?
Last edited by SQ22 on Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
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Prost
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:02 am

Thoughts? They shouldn't have done it?
 
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DL747400
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:00 pm

1. Let the perpetrator spend some time in federal prison.
2. Add them to the global no-fly list for life.
3. Require them to reimburse DL for the cost of the diversion/return.

Case closed.
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Noshow
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:04 pm

Great that passengers stepped in to help the crew.
Wonder if this was some sort of terrorist attack, somebody's psychological issue or just a drunken idiot?
 
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exFWAOONW
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:13 pm

Sounds like everything worked out as it should have, everyone walked away alive. Can we wait for the facts of the situation to be established before going into diarrhea mode?
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:42 pm

DL747400 wrote:
1. Let the perpetrator spend some time in federal prison.
2. Add them to the global no-fly list for life.
3. Require them to reimburse DL for the cost of the diversion/return.

Case closed.


I agree with 2 & 3 (and 1 depending on the situation), but judging by past events, it's highly unlikely 2 or 3 will happen. Personally, I think if you cause a diversion because of your illegal actions 2 & 3 should be automatic.
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ro1960
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:55 pm

RDUDDJI wrote:
DL747400 wrote:
1. Let the perpetrator spend some time in federal prison.
2. Add them to the global no-fly list for life.
3. Require them to reimburse DL for the cost of the diversion/return.

Case closed.


I agree with 2 & 3 (and 1 depending on the situation), but judging by past events, it's highly unlikely 2 or 3 will happen. Personally, I think if you cause a diversion because of your illegal actions 2 & 3 should be automatic.


How about we let the authorities and the justice system do their work?
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kiowa
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:56 pm

How long until we see pax cell phone video?
 
Adispatcher
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:31 pm

The initial CNN article was incorrect. It looks like they amended it to be more accurate. Apparently, there was no attempt to breach the flight deck.
 
hiflyeras
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 2:58 pm

If they were 2:20 out of SEA on the way to NRT then I don't understand why they didn't just land in ANC. Maybe because they'd need a fresh crew?
 
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CrimsonNL
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:16 pm

DL747400 wrote:
2. Add them to the global no-fly list for life.


If only there was such a thing! And I completely agree with your other points.

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
ltbewr
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 3:49 pm

Sounds like a drunk jerk who got cut off from more drinks from the FA, got into an physical confrontation with the FA. I wouldn't doubt if the dummy was drunk before boarding
We worry about terrorists on our planes, it is the drunks/drugged/crazies we need to worry about more. I wish there was a rule or a check to keep drunk/high pax off from boarding so we don't see as many of these conflicts. I wonder if it was a PRC or other national. I do hope they bring Federal charges for assault if true and put this guy's butt in jail for a few years. If a PRC national, he may have some serious issues when he gets home.
 
tjerome
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:27 pm

hiflyeras wrote:
If they were 2:20 out of SEA on the way to NRT then I don't understand why they didn't just land in ANC. Maybe because they'd need a fresh crew?


Most likely that was the case. Landed at 7:09pm and did not re-depart until after midnight (local time in Seattle). As I type the flight is descending for landing in Beijing.
 
Indy
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:49 pm

Great. Another self entitled tool sitting in first class... likely flying on the company dime... thinking he is important or whatever and gets drunk and starts feeling even more entitled. Any bets to whether or not the words "do you know who I am?" were shouted? If this guy was flying on the company dime, unemployment should be a nice wake up call. After he gets out of jail lol.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 458074001/
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:01 pm

Glad it is just someone suffering from mainland syndrome. Maybe he thought the small area in the front with a door is a designated smoking area.
 
spacecadet
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:18 pm

ltbewr wrote:
I wish there was a rule or a check to keep drunk/high pax off from boarding so we don't see as many of these conflicts.


Being drunk does not cause a person to assault a flight attendant. I have been drunk many times in my life (including on planes) and never felt the urge to do such a thing. And to quote some graffiti I saw just the other day, "even Jesus drank".

Being a jerk is what causes a person to assault a flight attendant. And I'd absolutely love it if we could screen for jerks and keep them off planes; we'd all have a lot more room to stretch out.
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edmaircraft
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:39 pm

DL747400 wrote:
1. Let the perpetrator spend some time in federal prison.
2. Add them to the global no-fly list for life.
3. Require them to reimburse DL for the cost of the diversion/return.

Case closed.


Great summary - just too bad that this rarely (if ever?) happens.
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edmaircraft
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:49 pm

Adispatcher wrote:
The initial CNN article was incorrect. It looks like they amended it to be more accurate. Apparently, there was no attempt to breach the flight deck.


I'm seeing that now as I re-read the article. "Just" assault and a return to SEA.

Textbook case if you ask me.
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Adispatcher
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:17 pm

edmaircraft wrote:
Adispatcher wrote:
The initial CNN article was incorrect. It looks like they amended it to be more accurate. Apparently, there was no attempt to breach the flight deck.


I'm seeing that now as I re-read the article. "Just" assault and a return to SEA.

Textbook case if you ask me.


Yes, the authorities will figure it out. The travelling public will likely never be told if it was alcohol, drugs, medical issue, etc.

Well done to the crew and passengers who assisted in keeping the gentleman restrained during the incident.
 
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DocLightning
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:49 pm

exFWAOONW wrote:
Sounds like everything worked out as it should have, everyone walked away alive. Can we wait for the facts of the situation to be established before going into diarrhea mode?


Yup. I hope that nobody tries to respond by coming up with even more security measures that inconvenience passengers and cost passengers/airlines money when the existing measures worked just fine.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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wjcandee
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:53 pm

Turns out that he went to the forward lav about an hour into the flight. He then came out of the bathroom and lunged for the exit door and tried to open it. He had been seated in the first row of first class. When the flight attendants tried to restrain him, he was extremely combative. One of them smacked him in the head with two red wine bottles, breaking one, and it didn't faze him. This all according to the FBI affidavit. http://hosted2.ap.org/APDEFAULT/386c255 ... a0b23f6cbe
Last edited by wjcandee on Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
devyanks90
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Fri Jul 07, 2017 11:54 pm

Attorney's office released some more details.

https://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/ ... 1886004226

Flying on a dependent pass...
 
mcdu
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:24 am

This was a non rev? That's outrageous. I hope the employee is burdened with the cost of the divert and medical bills up to the point they are terminated. They should be forced to give a video apology to the company for their non revs actions.
 
TW870
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:01 am

Who released that document to Twitter? I am just curious because the language in it is all over the map, and does not follow any language that any airline that I am aware of uses to describe 767 door operations (I am former UA). It says on the second page that Hudek got the "emergency release lever" up to a 90 degree angle, and that at a 90 degree angle of the "emergency release lever" that it would notify the cockpit that the door is disarmed. This is very unclear. The arming lever on the 767 requires pushing a button to the left and then pushing a small handle inward. You open the door by moving the large handle upward. None of these are called the "emergency release lever". If he actually got the door handle to 90 degrees, it would not disarm the door - but rather it would begin to open it (which did not happen). And I have no idea what it would mean to move the arming lever to a 90 degree angle, because it only travels forward and backward in one plane.

Overall excellent work by the crew for controlling this situation - but right now this document does not provide a clear view of what happened.
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:56 am

TW870 wrote:
Who released that document to Twitter? I am just curious because the language in it is all over the map, and does not follow any language that any airline that I am aware of uses to describe 767 door operations (I am former UA). It says on the second page that Hudek got the "emergency release lever" up to a 90 degree angle, and that at a 90 degree angle of the "emergency release lever" that it would notify the cockpit that the door is disarmed. This is very unclear. The arming lever on the 767 requires pushing a button to the left and then pushing a small handle inward. You open the door by moving the large handle upward. None of these are called the "emergency release lever". If he actually got the door handle to 90 degrees, it would not disarm the door - but rather it would begin to open it (which did not happen). And I have no idea what it would mean to move the arming lever to a 90 degree angle, because it only travels forward and backward in one plane.

Overall excellent work by the crew for controlling this situation - but right now this document does not provide a clear view of what happened.

If you read the bottom of the page it was the US Attorney.

Feel bad for whoever gave him the pass. But I do hear Norwegian is looking for some new crew members
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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DL_Mech
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:08 am

This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
edmaircraft
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:16 am

mcdu wrote:
This was a non rev? That's outrageous. I hope the employee is burdened with the cost of the divert and medical bills up to the point they are terminated. They should be forced to give a video apology to the company for their non revs actions.


Agreed. Poor conduct is one thing, but poor conduct by an employee on a company flight is something else.

I have to admit I'm quite interested in where this will go.
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BoeingGuy
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:18 am

tjerome wrote:
hiflyeras wrote:
If they were 2:20 out of SEA on the way to NRT then I don't understand why they didn't just land in ANC. Maybe because they'd need a fresh crew?


Most likely that was the case. Landed at 7:09pm and did not re-depart until after midnight (local time in Seattle). As I type the flight is descending for landing in Beijing.


I thought they were only 45 minutes out of SEA when it happened, not close to ANC. They weren't far from SEA at that point.

If the were farther along if it were a dire emergency I suppose they could set down at Sitka if they wanted to get on the ground right away.
 
usflyer msp
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:41 am

DL_Mech wrote:


Ha! If I were Britteny Gardner I would be so pissed about that photo of me that was used in that article, LMAO...

Image
 
Virtual737
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:52 am

Are there any conditions in the contract of employment about the conduct of those using dependent passes and the possibility of disciplinary action on the actual employee for something not directly in their control?

The passenger is 23 years old and well past the age of being criminally responsible. Feel really bad for the employee. Am I the only one thinking that action on the employee would be somewhat unfair? Yes the passenger is somewhat reflecting the airline, but the responsibility for actions committed should remain with him.

Not the biggest injustice in the world by a long way, but surely unfair.
 
Sancho99504
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:33 am

FBI believes he may have been smuggling narcotics in his rear cavity, whatever they were packaged in failed and that he became high on the drug (s).

The information about him being a non-rev is not supposed to be public knowledge and hopefully the leaker is punished as well, whether it was law enforcement or airline employees who leaked that.

Aircraft was detained for about 2 hours as FBI processed the crime scene. Maintenance had to inspect the aircraft as it landed heavy and had to do a biohazard cleanup before a new crew was rostered and it departed Seattle.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
n7371f
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:11 am

hiflyeras wrote:
If they were 2:20 out of SEA on the way to NRT then I don't understand why they didn't just land in ANC. Maybe because they'd need a fresh crew?


They weren't that far. And a fresh crew had nothing to do with it. Had the passenger not been subdued, the OCC plan was to land in YVR.
 
Brick
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:20 am

One of my family members was the purser on that flight (the one who was not punched). In an e-mail from her, she said the guy was like the Incredible Hulk...he would just not go down. She broke a full wine bottle over his head and it did not phase him one bit....this guy doesn't seem like he was drunk, more he was on something.
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Super80Fan
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:27 am

Reading the twitter post of the criminal complaint, seems he was flying on a dependent pass as his mother works for the company. Wonder if she'll get the pink slip. Kudos to the flight crew and passengers who stepped in.
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PlanesNTrains
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:02 am

mcdu wrote:
This was a non rev? That's outrageous. I hope the employee is burdened with the cost of the divert and medical bills up to the point they are terminated. They should be forced to give a video apology to the company for their non revs actions.


He wasn't an employee. Hopefully you aren't suggesting that his mother - the employee - face financial responsibility for his actions?

Seriously, though, what kind of kid this must be. His poor mother.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
PlanesNTrains
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:04 am

To add, he was flying as a dependent (or whatever the family member term is) and he was in the first row of first class. Is that normal? I'm sure it happens but I wouldn't think it'd be often.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:19 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
To add, he was flying as a dependent (or whatever the family member term is) and he was in the first row of first class. Is that normal? I'm sure it happens but I wouldn't think it'd be often.


Usually standbys are given the highest fare class available. I used to work for DGS (Delta Global Services) and my travel benefits stated that I was to get the highest class availiabe on the flight, as would my pass riders. So, if first class was available after the standbys above him (if there were any) were seated, then he gets a first class seat.

:)
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thewizbizman
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:29 am

DL747400 wrote:
1. Let the perpetrator spend some time in federal prison.
2. Add them to the global no-fly list for life.
3. Require them to reimburse DL for the cost of the diversion/return.

Case closed.



Pretty much.
Hope the injuries were not too bad. I would hate to have my flight ruined by that.
 
DLFREEBIRD
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:22 am

TW870 wrote:
Who released that document to Twitter? I am just curious because the language in it is all over the map, and does not follow any language that any airline that I am aware of uses to describe 767 door operations (I am former UA). It says on the second page that Hudek got the "emergency release lever" up to a 90 degree angle, and that at a 90 degree angle of the "emergency release lever" that it would notify the cockpit that the door is disarmed. This is very unclear. The arming lever on the 767 requires pushing a button to the left and then pushing a small handle inward. You open the door by moving the large handle upward. None of these are called the "emergency release lever". If he actually got the door handle to 90 degrees, it would not disarm the door - but rather it would begin to open it (which did not happen). And I have no idea what it would mean to move the arming lever to a 90 degree angle, because it only travels forward and backward in one plane.

Overall excellent work by the crew for controlling this situation - but right now this document does not provide a clear view of what happened.


This looks more like a DL incident report which are filled out for corporate eyes only.

.. They write down all the pertinent facts flight number, date, time, seat assignment, name, type of ticket, and then described the incident.
most incident reports are filled out by ground managers after talking to the crew, and have limited information mainly because the crew has to get back in the air. Their purpose is to contain enough information so that corporate can investigate the incident.
 
jetwet1
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:39 am

For those calling for the employees head.......Have none of you had a relative/friend that is the nicest person in day to day life, but suddenly acts up ? There is no way you can hold the employee responsible for someones actions when they are 300 miles away and 30,000 ft in the air to the point of termination. Sure take away her flight benefits for a while, but actually terminating her, no way.

Now to the idiot himself...A confused picture is being painted here, though the mention of a drugs packet bursting does make sense given he didn't go down after a wine bottle was broken over his head.....Don't try it folks, but this isn't the movies, people go down when that bottle hits.
 
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OA940
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:04 am

OMAAT has a story including a lawsuit... I mean HOLY CRAP THAT'S QUITE SOMETHING!
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mcdu
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:07 am

Sancho99504 wrote:
FBI believes he may have been smuggling narcotics in his rear cavity, whatever they were packaged in failed and that he became high on the drug (s).

The information about him being a non-rev is not supposed to be public knowledge and hopefully the leaker is punished as well, whether it was law enforcement or airline employees who leaked that.

Aircraft was detained for about 2 hours as FBI processed the crime scene. Maintenance had to inspect the aircraft as it landed heavy and had to do a biohazard cleanup before a new crew was rostered and it departed Seattle.



Why is it not supposed to be public knowledge that he's a nonrev?

So far DL has had a gun smuggling ring in ATL to NYC and now non revs with drugs being smuggled. This is going to result in more changes and rules that will impact those of us that don't break the law. After the gun smuggling incident we got rule changes that negatively affects a lot of law abiding workers.
 
mcdu
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:11 am

PlanesNTrains wrote:
mcdu wrote:
This was a non rev? That's outrageous. I hope the employee is burdened with the cost of the divert and medical bills up to the point they are terminated. They should be forced to give a video apology to the company for their non revs actions.


He wasn't an employee. Hopefully you aren't suggesting that his mother - the employee - face financial responsibility for his actions?

Seriously, though, what kind of kid this must be. His poor mother.


Yes I know he was an employee. But the employee who's pass he was traveling on should be forced to apologize for giving the company a black eye and pay the costs associated with this incident.

Standing by for the crack down on non rev travel. Also expect a disclaimer to appear when booking that you as the employee will be responsible for any legal issues arising from dependent travel.
 
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delta747tlv
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:17 am

I don't think they deserve to lose their job, but in the world of airline travel benefits, you are liable for every action of someone traveling with your benefits, they represent you. They are and will be held responsible for this incident and will probably be terminated, barring lots of luck and serious mitigating circumstances.

jetwet1 wrote:
For those calling for the employees head.......Have none of you had a relative/friend that is the nicest person in day to day life, but suddenly acts up ? There is no way you can hold the employee responsible for someones actions when they are 300 miles away and 30,000 ft in the air to the point of termination. Sure take away her flight benefits for a while, but actually terminating her, no way.

Now to the idiot himself...A confused picture is being painted here, though the mention of a drugs packet bursting does make sense given he didn't go down after a wine bottle was broken over his head.....Don't try it folks, but this isn't the movies, people go down when that bottle hits.
 
CF-CPI
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:22 am

I suppose I should ask the overwhelming anutter question ...... does anyone have the reg?

76W (in theory) is a -332ER with a large forward cabin.
 
Virtual737
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:24 am

delta747tlv wrote:
you are liable for every action of someone traveling with your benefits, they represent you.


I'd be interested to see how that stands up in law. I'm not sure how one adult can be held responsible for the actions of another, especially if they were not physically present (not that I think that should make much difference either). As asked earlier, is there anything contractual that states something along these lines? Thanks.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 11:37 am

These incidents are really becoming tiresome. If someone does that on a plane, and it's obvious it is not terrorism, but attributed to alcohol, drugs, or some other personal issue, the resulting consequences should be to make the perpetrator liable to cover all expenses associated with the diversion caused, an at least 10+ and maybe permanent ban on flying any airline, or at least from the country where the incident happened, though something more draconian is warranted here, and jail time. Plane and simple.
 
reltney
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Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:12 pm

Cointrin330 wrote:
These incidents are really becoming tiresome. If someone does that on a plane, and it's obvious it is not terrorism, but attributed to alcohol, drugs, or some other personal issue, the resulting consequences should be to make the perpetrator liable to cover all expenses associated with the diversion caused, an at least 10+ and maybe permanent ban on flying any airline, or at least from the country where the incident happened, though something more draconian is warranted here, and jail time. Plane and simple.




I love it ...."Plane and simple". No pun there". Reminds me of Braniff.... The end of the plain plane...
As a pilot for the last 40years....damn I am old..... Well, these incidents have been happening all the time. Social media and the media radar has just been picking up on them which gets nation wide coverage. The incidents do pick up during heavy traffic days just due to volume.
Best one I had was when the pax slapped a F/A, easy decision. Capt diverted to santo Domingo . The look on his face being led off the plane in cuffs was priceless.
Knives don't kill people. People with knives kill people.
OUTLAW KNIVES.

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dtw2hyd
Posts: 7108
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 12:55 pm

I am surprised this thread is still open. It should have been locked as soon as the non-rev info leaked out.

I think post #3 is still valid. Don't go easy because perp is non-rev. Throw book just like you would do to a rev pax.
 
catiii
Posts: 3158
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:33 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I am surprised this thread is still open. It should have been locked as soon as the non-rev info leaked out.

I think post #3 is still valid. Don't go easy because perp is non-rev. Throw book just like you would do to a rev pax.


Why should the thread be locked? It's public info that he was a nonrev.

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