dtw2hyd
Posts: 7099
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:28 pm

catiii wrote:
Why should the thread be locked? It's public info that he was a nonrev.


Because more and more non-rev/employee violations are coming to light and PR teams don't like a bit.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:40 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
catiii wrote:
Why should the thread be locked? It's public info that he was a nonrev.


Because more and more non-rev/employee violations are coming to light and PR teams don't like a bit.


It's in the mainstream media (eg http://news.sky.com/story/flight-attend ... s-10941407 ) so closing the thread here would make virtually no difference at all.
 
777Mech
Posts: 792
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:54 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:57 pm

CF-CPI wrote:
I suppose I should ask the overwhelming anutter question ...... does anyone have the reg?

76W (in theory) is a -332ER with a large forward cabin.


N174DZ
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3428
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:13 pm

mcdu wrote:
This was a non rev? That's outrageous. I hope the employee is burdened with the cost of the divert and medical bills up to the point they are terminated. They should be forced to give a video apology to the company for their non revs actions.


No. Please, no. Your desire is outrageous. It kinda sounds like you do want that further crackdown on pass travel.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
To add, he was flying as a dependent (or whatever the family member term is) and he was in the first row of first class. Is that normal? I'm sure it happens but I wouldn't think it'd be often.

It's not uncommon, especially in business class.
 
tjerome
Posts: 287
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:03 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:45 pm

Virtual737 wrote:
Are there any conditions in the contract of employment about the conduct of those using dependent passes and the possibility of disciplinary action on the actual employee for something not directly in their control?

The passenger is 23 years old and well past the age of being criminally responsible. Feel really bad for the employee. Am I the only one thinking that action on the employee would be somewhat unfair? Yes the passenger is somewhat reflecting the airline, but the responsibility for actions committed should remain with him.

Not the biggest injustice in the world by a long way, but surely unfair.


Yes. The passrider will likely lose their benefits for some time... don't think they would be terminated unless there is some history.

CF-CPI wrote:
I suppose I should ask the overwhelming anutter question ...... does anyone have the reg?

76W (in theory) is a -332ER with a large forward cabin.


N174DZ
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:54 pm

Indy wrote:
Great. Another self entitled tool sitting in first class... likely flying on the company dime...


This was more prophetic than anyone knew at the time. Especially considering what company's dime he was flying on.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:58 pm

mcdu wrote:
This was a non rev? That's outrageous. I hope the employee is burdened with the cost of the divert and medical bills up to the point they are terminated. They should be forced to give a video apology to the company for their non revs actions.


Who cares about the company? The company, thru one of it's employees, created this situation in the first place. If the employee pays anything it should be a refund of every passengers airfare for this flight, plus compensate all additional travel costs incurred by anyone who missed a connection and had to pay for more airfare, rebooking fees, or lodging costs because of Delta's 7 hour delay.
 
bmacleod
Posts: 2990
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 3:10 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Is this the new normal? - I mean these incidents seem to be happening roughly every few months now....
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
smokeybandit
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:24 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:22 pm

Surely you have to be high on something if having a wine bottle broken over you has no effect.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:23 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
catiii wrote:
Why should the thread be locked? It's public info that he was a nonrev.


Because more and more non-rev/employee violations are coming to light and PR teams don't like a bit.


Part of it is PR and part of it is purely financial. Airlines will compensate passengers including rebooking and lodging costs for delays or cancellations under the airlines' control, e.g. mechanical problems, crew availability, etc. Airlines will not compensate passengers for delays or cancellations outside of their control, e.g. everything is usually blamed on "weather" (even if it's an IT failure). In this case is a seven hour delay due to an unruly passenger within the airline's control? Probably not -- Delta can easily tell all their passengers "Not our fault, you get nothing". But what if that passenger is a family member of an employee, travelling on the employee's free pass? Now that this is public info, it's not so easy for Delta to walk away from their responsibility.
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2004
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:27 pm

jetwet1 wrote:
For those calling for the employees head.......Have none of you had a relative/friend that is the nicest person in day to day life, but suddenly acts up ? There is no way you can hold the employee responsible for someones actions when they are 300 miles away and 30,000 ft in the air to the point of termination. Sure take away her flight benefits for a while, but actually terminating her, no way.

Now to the idiot himself...A confused picture is being painted here, though the mention of a drugs packet bursting does make sense given he didn't go down after a wine bottle was broken over his head.....Don't try it folks, but this isn't the movies, people go down when that bottle hits.


We need to have an MMA match with this guy and the Oakland fighter.
Smoothest Ride so far ~ AA A300B4-600R ~~ Favorite Aviation Author ~ Robert J. Serling
 
Indy
Posts: 4843
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:47 pm

IPFreely wrote:
Indy wrote:
Great. Another self entitled tool sitting in first class... likely flying on the company dime...


This was more prophetic than anyone knew at the time. Especially considering what company's dime he was flying on.


OMG I just saw. "Hudek had been traveling on a "dependent pass," the complaint said. Such passes allow certain relatives of Delta employees to fly standby." LOL. Maybe it has been covered somewhere, but is there backlash for the DL employee that gave him the pass?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
Osiris
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:53 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:48 pm

Am I right in assuming that the pressure differential between the air outside and the cabin, plus the fact that the doors open inward first, mean that even if they were unlocked the person wouldn't be strong enough to pull the door open?
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 794
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:07 pm

Maybe it has been covered somewhere, but is there backlash for the DL employee that gave him the pass?


I actually spoke with an FA (daughter of a coworker) about this yesterday. Just going on generalities with no insider information on this incident, she was pretty clear that the employee will at a minimum lose their pass privileges for quite some time, probably a very long time, as in years. As for whether there will be discipline or firing, that all depends upon Delta's rules and regs regarding these nonrev passes. Does Delta actually say that the employee is responsible for the nonrev's actions? Is the employee basically warranting that the nonrev will behave and fly "nicely?" Are there actual employee penalties in the fine print of a nonrev does not behave? Every airlines has different internal guidelines on these things, so she said the devil would be in the details of Delta's rules and regs. I think we'd need some Delta employees to chime in on what the airline's internal guidance is in these situations to have a solid idea.
 
Adispatcher
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:35 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
Maybe it has been covered somewhere, but is there backlash for the DL employee that gave him the pass?


I actually spoke with an FA (daughter of a coworker) about this yesterday. Just going on generalities with no insider information on this incident, she was pretty clear that the employee will at a minimum lose their pass privileges for quite some time, probably a very long time, as in years. As for whether there will be discipline or firing, that all depends upon Delta's rules and regs regarding these nonrev passes. Does Delta actually say that the employee is responsible for the nonrev's actions? Is the employee basically warranting that the nonrev will behave and fly "nicely?" Are there actual employee penalties in the fine print of a nonrev does not behave? Every airlines has different internal guidelines on these things, so she said the devil would be in the details of Delta's rules and regs. I think we'd need some Delta employees to chime in on what the airline's internal guidance is in these situations to have a solid idea.


Below is a bullet point regarding employee pass travel:

It's important for you to understand that if you or any pass rider disregards any policy, rule or procedure, you may be subject to disciplinary action, up to and including termination of your employment, or suspension or termination of pass travel privileges.
Last edited by Adispatcher on Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 6:38 pm

IPFreely wrote:
mcdu wrote:
This was a non rev? That's outrageous. I hope the employee is burdened with the cost of the divert and medical bills up to the point they are terminated. They should be forced to give a video apology to the company for their non revs actions.


Who cares about the company? The company, thru one of it's employees, created this situation in the first place. If the employee pays anything it should be a refund of every passengers airfare for this flight, plus compensate all additional travel costs incurred by anyone who missed a connection and had to pay for more airfare, rebooking fees, or lodging costs because of Delta's 7 hour delay.


Boy you guys are out for blood on this. If DL does something for the passengers, great - that'd be awesome and say a lot about Delta as a carrier. However, at the end of the day, this punk wasn't an employee. He was related to one, but that's just not the same thing in my book. We've all had family members do stupid things at some point - I wouldn't want to be financially accountable for their stupidity. And yes, I understand he was on a company pass.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 642
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:14 pm

tjerome wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
Are there any conditions in the contract of employment about the conduct of those using dependent passes and the possibility of disciplinary action on the actual employee for something not directly in their control?

The passenger is 23 years old and well past the age of being criminally responsible. Feel really bad for the employee. Am I the only one thinking that action on the employee would be somewhat unfair? Yes the passenger is somewhat reflecting the airline, but the responsibility for actions committed should remain with him.

Not the biggest injustice in the world by a long way, but surely unfair.


Yes. The passrider will likely lose their benefits for some time... don't think they would be terminated unless there is some history.

CF-CPI wrote:
I suppose I should ask the overwhelming anutter question ...... does anyone have the reg?

76W (in theory) is a -332ER with a large forward cabin.


N174DZ



Employees PPR has been deactivated as of yesterday. Not sure if she was suspended or not.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
mcdu
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:29 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:


Employees PPR has been deactivated as of yesterday. Not sure if she was suspended or not.


Out of curiosity. What department did the employee that supplied the pass work?
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:25 pm

the fine print with non rev tickets tell a employee in no uncertain terms that they will be held monetarily responsible. for those using their flight benefits. having to turn a flight around, cost is going to be outrageous.

The road is going to be long and steep to pay off these fines and assessments. Usually what happens once billed they have 60 days to pay it off in full. After 60 days their pass account becomes delinquent and their pass privileges are revoked until their account is paid in full. . Even if they set up a payroll deduction plan and have the max amount deducted by law, i still don't see how they will be able to pay this off in a timely manner, therefore after a couple of years DL will then have the legal right to permanently revoke their flight privileges.
 
Adispatcher
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:26 pm

mcdu wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:


Employees PPR has been deactivated as of yesterday. Not sure if she was suspended or not.


Out of curiosity. What department did the employee that supplied the pass work?


I do hope no one will give out that information.

I believe it's bad enough that an employee is involved and it became public knowledge.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:39 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
We've all had family members do stupid things at some point - I wouldn't want to be financially accountable for their stupidity. And yes, I understand he was on a company pass.


If your family member goes out in public, does something stupid, and gets arrested, nobody cares. You aren't responsible.

But if you bring that family member into your place of employment, provide him with your comapny's service for free, and he or she does something stupid that costs your company hundreds of thousands of dollars, then yes, any company -- airline or not -- is going to rightly hold you responsible.
 
DLFREEBIRD
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:07 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:39 pm

Sancho99504 wrote:
tjerome wrote:
Virtual737 wrote:
Are there any conditions in the contract of employment about the conduct of those using dependent passes and the possibility of disciplinary action on the actual employee for something not directly in their control?

The passenger is 23 years old and well past the age of being criminally responsible. Feel really bad for the employee. Am I the only one thinking that action on the employee would be somewhat unfair? Yes the passenger is somewhat reflecting the airline, but the responsibility for actions committed should remain with him.

Not the biggest injustice in the world by a long way, but surely unfair.


Yes. The passrider will likely lose their benefits for some time... don't think they would be terminated unless there is some history.

CF-CPI wrote:
I suppose I should ask the overwhelming anutter question ...... does anyone have the reg?

76W (in theory) is a -332ER with a large forward cabin.


N174DZ



Employees PPR has been deactivated as of yesterday. Not sure if she was suspended or not.


It was probably deactivated to protect their privacy its common procedures to deactivate frequent flier number and ppr when an incident like this occurs, they don't just want anybody accessing sensitive data. there is this think called privacy.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:44 pm

DLFREEBIRD wrote:
the fine print with non rev tickets tell a employee in no uncertain terms that they will be held monetarily responsible. for those using their flight benefits. having to turn a flight around, cost is going to be outrageous.

The road is going to be long and steep to pay off these fines and assessments. Usually what happens once billed they have 60 days to pay it off in full. After 60 days their pass account becomes delinquent and their pass privileges are revoked until their account is paid in full. . Even if they set up a payroll deduction plan and have the max amount deducted by law, i still don't see how they will be able to pay this off in a timely manner, therefore after a couple of years DL will then have the legal right to permanently revoke their flight privileges.


I assume in this case either the employee quits or they just give up all privileges. I can't imagine paying off the cost of this if they are fully liable for that.

IPFreely wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
We've all had family members do stupid things at some point - I wouldn't want to be financially accountable for their stupidity. And yes, I understand he was on a company pass.


If your family member goes out in public, does something stupid, and gets arrested, nobody cares. You aren't responsible.

But if you bring that family member into your place of employment, provide him with your comapny's service for free, and he or she does something stupid that costs your company hundreds of thousands of dollars, then yes, any company -- airline or not -- is going to rightly hold you responsible.


Then terminate them. Paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars because uncle Joe decided that today was the day to be stupid probably isn't going to happen.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:48 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Then terminate them. Paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars because uncle Joe decided that today was the day to be stupid probably isn't going to happen.


That likely will happen. But terminating the employee doesn't absolve them of the financial responsibility they signed up for when they accepted travel passes. Delta can still bill them or file a lawsuit. They may not be able to collect it all if the employee doesn't have the money but if they win a court judgement they can perhaps settle for something.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:53 pm

Adispatcher wrote:
I do hope no one will give out that information.

I believe it's bad enough that an employee is involved and it became public knowledge.


No Delta employee should give out that information. But the alleged criminal is named in the criminal complaint which is public record.
And his grandfather has been giving media interviews, so nobody is trying very hard to keep secrets here.
 
DfwAussie
Posts: 147
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:03 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:02 pm

MSPNWA wrote:
mcdu wrote:
This was a non rev? That's outrageous. I hope the employee is burdened with the cost of the divert and medical bills up to the point they are terminated. They should be forced to give a video apology to the company for their non revs actions.


No. Please, no. Your desire is outrageous. It kinda sounds like you do want that further crackdown on pass travel.

PlanesNTrains wrote:
To add, he was flying as a dependent (or whatever the family member term is) and he was in the first row of first class. Is that normal? I'm sure it happens but I wouldn't think it'd be often.

It's not uncommon, especially in business class.


So a non-rev on a pass is more important to you than a fare paying passenger? If you work for an airline, you sit and sit and sit until a legitimate, empty seat becomes available.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:03 pm

IPFreely wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Then terminate them. Paying off hundreds of thousands of dollars because uncle Joe decided that today was the day to be stupid probably isn't going to happen.


That likely will happen. But terminating the employee doesn't absolve them of the financial responsibility they signed up for when they accepted travel passes. Delta can still bill them or file a lawsuit. They may not be able to collect it all if the employee doesn't have the money but if they win a court judgement they can perhaps settle for something.


Well hopefully she has access to her son's funds (i.e. unused college fund, etc) and can cut a deal. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine anyone paying a five figure settlement in a reasonable timeframe, and BK becomes a clear option.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
N212R
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:03 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Seriously, though, what kind of kid this must be. His poor mother.


Seriously though, what kind of mother she must have been?
 
Sancho99504
Posts: 642
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2005 2:44 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:07 pm

mcdu wrote:
Sancho99504 wrote:


Employees PPR has been deactivated as of yesterday. Not sure if she was suspended or not.


Out of curiosity. What department did the employee that supplied the pass work?

I think that info is better left unknown to anyone outside of the company so there is none backlash from anybody.
kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out-USMC
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:07 pm

N212R wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Seriously, though, what kind of kid this must be. His poor mother.


Seriously though, what kind of mother she must have been?


Oh buh-rother. Him being a jackass doesn't mean she was a bad mother.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Adispatcher
Posts: 180
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:52 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:10 pm

IPFreely wrote:
Adispatcher wrote:
I do hope no one will give out that information.

I believe it's bad enough that an employee is involved and it became public knowledge.


No Delta employee should give out that information. But the alleged criminal is named in the criminal complaint which is public record.
And his grandfather has been giving media interviews, so nobody is trying very hard to keep secrets here.


I agree completely. I'm just disappointed that this ties back to an employee, both as an airline employee and as a human being. Her career is likely damaged due to the actions of another.

I am curious as to the outcome and what new information comes to light, though.
 
910A
Posts: 1793
Joined: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:11 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:15 pm

I surprised that no one has noticed this: he was traveling in first class....Since when does Delta have first class on a international flight operated with al 76W?
 
N212R
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:20 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
I am surprised this thread is still open. It should have been locked as soon as the non-rev info leaked


The flying public doesn't have the right to discuss information concerning the day to day operations of those businesses to which they entrust their money and ultimately their lives? What you propose is a very dangerous precedent that reeks of cabals, collusion and coverups. I wonder if our Delta friends would have the same opinion should this incident have happened to another well-known airlines?
Last edited by N212R on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:21 pm

910A wrote:
I surprised that no one has noticed this: he was traveling in first class....Since when does Delta have first class on a international flight operated with al 76W?


I guess Business then?
Last edited by PlanesNTrains on Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
N212R
Posts: 217
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 5:18 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:29 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
N212R wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Oh buh-rother. Him being a jackass doesn't mean she was a bad mother.


Neither does it preclude that being the case.
 
johns624
Posts: 2219
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2008 11:09 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:34 pm

To the general public, "up front" is "first class".
 
catiii
Posts: 3155
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:54 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
catiii wrote:
Why should the thread be locked? It's public info that he was a nonrev.


Because more and more non-rev/employee violations are coming to light and PR teams don't like a bit.


So? Why should we care what a CorpComm team at an airline thinks when it's made public their employees or dependents aren't acting appropriately?
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:04 pm

N212R wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
N212R wrote:


Neither does it preclude that being the case.


Sigh. I never said it did. What is your point in all this?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
ADXMatt
Posts: 520
Joined: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:07 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:53 pm

The Non Rev info wasn't a leak. It was on the "Summary of Cause" that the US Attorney filed with the court. That is a public record.

I don't think the employee should be fired; loss of pass privileges for a period of time for sure.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:55 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:
Well hopefully she has access to her son's funds (i.e. unused college fund, etc) and can cut a deal. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine anyone paying a five figure settlement in a reasonable timeframe, and BK becomes a clear option.


Five figures should be no big deal to most people. But the cost here is far more than the extra hours of airplane operation and associated fuel costs. There's extra landing fees, cost to re-staff the airplane, cost to compensate passengers, and cost for any additional delays due to the airplane arriving 7 hours late. And that's all in addition to medical costs and compensation to prevent or settle lawsuits from the injured passenger and flight attendant. Total cost for this incident would be well into six figures. While BK might be a clear option the threat of it might prompt both parties to settle for what she has instead of the full cost.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9526
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sun Jul 09, 2017 1:37 am

IPFreely wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Well hopefully she has access to her son's funds (i.e. unused college fund, etc) and can cut a deal. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine anyone paying a five figure settlement in a reasonable timeframe, and BK becomes a clear option.


Five figures should be no big deal to most people. But the cost here is far more than the extra hours of airplane operation and associated fuel costs. There's extra landing fees, cost to re-staff the airplane, cost to compensate passengers, and cost for any additional delays due to the airplane arriving 7 hours late. And that's all in addition to medical costs and compensation to prevent or settle lawsuits from the injured passenger and flight attendant. Total cost for this incident would be well into six figures. While BK might be a clear option the threat of it might prompt both parties to settle for what she has instead of the full cost.


Well, I'm sure there are plenty of people who a $75,000 bill would bury them. Regardless, I would think the appropriate thing to do would be to terminate her before ruining her life because of this, but I understand that she signed up for it so....
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
jfern022
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:24 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:26 am

IPFreely wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:
Well hopefully she has access to her son's funds (i.e. unused college fund, etc) and can cut a deal. Otherwise, it's hard to imagine anyone paying a five figure settlement in a reasonable timeframe, and BK becomes a clear option.


Five figures should be no big deal to most people. But the cost here is far more than the extra hours of airplane operation and associated fuel costs. There's extra landing fees, cost to re-staff the airplane, cost to compensate passengers, and cost for any additional delays due to the airplane arriving 7 hours late. And that's all in addition to medical costs and compensation to prevent or settle lawsuits from the injured passenger and flight attendant. Total cost for this incident would be well into six figures. While BK might be a clear option the threat of it might prompt both parties to settle for what she has instead of the full cost.



Just stop. You are embarrassing yourself. Saying that the employee should be responsible?? If this was any other carrier, would you be advocating the same thing? Would you advocate the same in the event of a paying passenger? We have seen plenty of threads where revenue passenger caused significant issue on a flight and I haven't seen you suggest that. WE ALL GET IT that Delta left you behind one time (probably your fault) and now they must be the worst airline on the face of the earth, but save yourself the time and just stop. It really looks embarrassing.
 
User avatar
ssteve
Posts: 1366
Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:32 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:45 am

The cost of this incident is sunk.

The cost of terminating the employee, litigating it, dealing with union protests or whatever... might be more trouble than it is worth to just keep the employee.

It's not like there's value for shareholders in being punitive here. What a mess, though.
 
Virtual737
Posts: 619
Joined: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:16 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:54 am

ssteve wrote:
The cost of this incident is sunk.

The cost of terminating the employee, litigating it, dealing with union protests or whatever... might be more trouble than it is worth to just keep the employee.

It's not like there's value for shareholders in being punitive here. What a mess, though.


Very good point, especially that the cost of the incident is already sunk. In the perfect world the punitive should be there to deter others (and I'm advocating fining the offender, not the employee). However the perfect world doesn't exist and there is plenty of proof that deterrents do not deter.
 
iamlucky13
Posts: 1068
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:05 am

IPFreely wrote:
Five figures should be no big deal to most people.


???

Roughly half of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Only one in six have 5-figures of accessible savings.
http://www.cnbc.com/2016/10/03/how-much ... ounts.html
 
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Super80Fan
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:50 am

I think making the mother (employee) pay back the costs or firing her are too extreme, I think everyone can agree loss of free flights/pass privileges are more than enough.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:11 am

Super80Fan wrote:
I think making the mother (employee) pay back the costs or firing her are too extreme, I think everyone can agree loss of free flights/pass privileges are more than enough.


When the employee redeems a family and friends travel pass they agree to the rules regarding that pass. This written agreement is actually what matters, regardless if "you think it is too extreme" or if you think "everyone can agree" that the rules don't apply.
 
mcdu
Posts: 1529
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:21 am

Super80Fan wrote:
I think making the mother (employee) pay back the costs or firing her are too extreme, I think everyone can agree loss of free flights/pass privileges are more than enough.


Her family member terrrorized a flight. That is justification for termination in any sense of the word. DL will have lawsuits from probably the entire passenger group for mental anguish. This is going to be a huge financial burden.

If they keep her as a Gate agent, what happens if she or someone else in her family acts up in the future, if all she revives is a temporary pass suspension ? There's far too much liability to have her continue her employment with DL.

For the poster saying it was too expensive to fire her due to union issues. I was under the impression Gate agents were not represented by a union.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2420
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:28 am

nwadeicer wrote:
Hey, I got a preposition for ya! When our distinguished leader "Ed" forks over the 125 MILLION that his company Delta Air Lines blew away like a fart in the wind back in April. One of THREE Delta meltdowns this year...Then I will give a sheet about some lady who's kid had a mental episode and inconvenienced a couple hundred people. Mr. Ed, you first!!


The next time Ed visits your station and hosts a "town hall" meeting to answer employees questions, you should ask him directly.
 
nwadeicer
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:17 am

Re: Delta "security incident" - passenger attempts to enter cockpit

Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:39 am

You know what? I will do that if he EVER decides to do that. I probably could have done that if I lived in PBI, you know, the station he private jetted to during the last meltdown. Well, that was before he went to Augusta to see the masters golf tournament while delta was having an epic meltdown. I guess i'll head there when the next "issue" hits eh!
I miss the Red Tail

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