dz09
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Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:46 am

what would prevent Emirates from joining an American entity and forming Emirates America a la Virgin America?

is that doable and would it make business sense for Emirates?
 
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jnev3289
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:52 am

The owner of the entity would have to be American. That is the difference
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:55 am

I'm reposting this here from the duplicate thread:

They would need a tremendous amount of capital up front to even make a meaningfull presence in the US domestic market, and the market has spoken that (U)LCC-type service is the way to go. It's a bloodbath in the largest cities which all have at least 1 US3 hub AND WN. The big picture shows that VX is going away because not enough people pay for the fancy-ness.

An interesting idea however would be for EK to for a JV with B6 or even buy a stake in them, which I believe could help them become a larger player in North America.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:55 am

Research the history - particularly the U.S. ownership and management control requirements - of the long launch of Virgin America. It wasn't easy. Equity stakes of the original owners were repeatedly decreased as debt was converted to equity. It wasn't until fuel prices fell that Virgin America came into steady profitability.
 
QueenoftheSkies
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:57 am

This would be fabulous! Even that name sounds catchy.
 
flyby519
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:01 am

TWA772LR wrote:
I'm reposting this here from the duplicate thread:

They would need a tremendous amount of capital up front to even make a meaningfull presence in the US domestic market, and the market has spoken that (U)LCC-type service is the way to go. It's a bloodbath in the largest cities which all have at least 1 US3 hub AND WN. The big picture shows that VX is going away because not enough people pay for the fancy-ness.

An interesting idea however would be for EK to for a JV with B6 or even buy a stake in them, which I believe could help them become a larger player in North America.


Would it be possible for EK and B6 to have a trans-Atlantic JV when B6 starts Europe service? The JV would theoretically give EK the same EU access that B6 would have, right?
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:06 am

flyby519 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
I'm reposting this here from the duplicate thread:

They would need a tremendous amount of capital up front to even make a meaningfull presence in the US domestic market, and the market has spoken that (U)LCC-type service is the way to go. It's a bloodbath in the largest cities which all have at least 1 US3 hub AND WN. The big picture shows that VX is going away because not enough people pay for the fancy-ness.

An interesting idea however would be for EK to for a JV with B6 or even buy a stake in them, which I believe could help them become a larger player in North America.


Would it be possible for EK and B6 to have a trans-Atlantic JV when B6 starts Europe service? The JV would theoretically give EK the same EU access that B6 would have, right?

I don't see why not, but the real money would be in the US domestic market with the strong dollar. It would also give EK exposure in Mexico, Colombia, and Peru; while possibly allowing B6 a chance to start Canada on EKs behalf.
When wasn't America great?


The thoughts and opinions shared under this username are mine and are not influenced by my employer.
 
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:10 am

It won't happen but it'd be beyond exciting for them to threaten it just to annoy the US3. But they won't of course.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
jetblueguy22
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 2:22 am

flyby519 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
I'm reposting this here from the duplicate thread:

They would need a tremendous amount of capital up front to even make a meaningfull presence in the US domestic market, and the market has spoken that (U)LCC-type service is the way to go. It's a bloodbath in the largest cities which all have at least 1 US3 hub AND WN. The big picture shows that VX is going away because not enough people pay for the fancy-ness.

An interesting idea however would be for EK to for a JV with B6 or even buy a stake in them, which I believe could help them become a larger player in North America.


Would it be possible for EK and B6 to have a trans-Atlantic JV when B6 starts Europe service? The JV would theoretically give EK the same EU access that B6 would have, right?

I can see the ALPA picket lines already
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
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OA940
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:07 am

The US3 don't have enough money to fuel all the propaganda if that happened, so we don't wanna risk losing the highlight of the show.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
RichardWelling
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:30 pm

Would it be possible or legal for a foreign company to setup shop using a delware registered holding company?
 
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usxguy
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 1:35 pm

no, because the DOT still asks for citizemship and voting rights breakdown. VX had to go thru a BUNCH of hoops with SRB being involved, and then *not*.
xx
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:04 pm

Sure you can have enough stake to name it Emirates America.

#1 CEO has to be American
#2 Effective control has to be within the country
#3 Should follow US labor laws
#4 Should follow FAA rules
#5 Should follow SEC rules
#6 CEO is solely responsible for financial reports (This may be gone with Trump reverting Dodd-Frank)

Just 6 of 100s of reasons, it will be a namesake. It will be a down to earth commercial airline without any sorcery or creative accounting.

Who wants to start?
 
drgmobile
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:22 pm

As has been stated elsewhere above, Virgin America is the case study and I think the consensus it that it was not really a great success. I think you also may be overestimating the strength of the Emirates brand in the United States. The U.S. is a very domestic driven airline market. The vast majority of travelers, including business travelers probably have only a peripheral awareness of the Emirates brand, at most. This may be a bit different in smaller markets with Emirates service, but I wouldn't over estimate it.
 
Varsity1
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 5:05 pm

Delta U.A.E is that possible?

Could Delta get funding from the UAE (cheap debt) to open a subsidiary at DXB, dumping unprofitable seats on the market? Is this possible?
"PPRuNe will no longer allow discussions regarding Etihad Airlines, its employees, executives, agents, or other representatives. Such threads will be deleted." - ME3 thug airlines suing anyone who brings negative information public..
 
lancelot07
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:03 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Delta U.A.E is that possible?

Could Delta get funding from the UAE (cheap debt) to open a subsidiary at DXB, dumping unprofitable seats on the market? Is this possible?

Might be possible, but -as you say- unprofitable.
And loans are cheap nowadays almost everywhere. There is no business case.
 
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flyingturtle
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:21 pm

In Europe, we have Etihad Regional, which is operated by the Swiss-based Darwin Airlines, with a Swiss headquarter, and with Swiss management. They codeshare with Etihad, Air Berlin and Alitalia.


David
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PlanesNTrains
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 7:30 pm

The bigger issue is, short of an acquisition, where is said airline going to get gates/slots/etc? That's really the play domestically - obtaining and holding these assets. Barrier to entry is huge.
-Dave


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DfwAussie
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:02 pm

Why would any person want EK America? While their service levels are generally better than US carriers, they aren't even close to the Southeast Asia carriers. Let us know when seats go on sale for LBB-DFW on a 380.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:06 pm

DfwAussie wrote:
Why would any person want EK America? While their service levels are generally better than US carriers, they aren't even close to the Southeast Asia carriers. Let us know when seats go on sale for LBB-DFW on a 380.


Haha. Great point. I think the other issue is that the Virgin brand will play much better with US consumers than Emirates would. I know Emirates does relatively well on their US intl service, but not likely to play well for Ma and Pa Kettle on US domestic service.
 
VS11
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:07 pm

It is certainly possible. The UAE-based Emirates does not even need to own anything in a US-based carrier to license its name/trademark to that carrier. Right now though, it is not a good time to start a new airline in the US. For each type of a carrier, there are several players. Oil is cheap and interest rates are still low so the status quo can go on for a while.
 
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:20 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Delta U.A.E is that possible?

Could Delta get funding from the UAE (cheap debt) to open a subsidiary at DXB, dumping unprofitable seats on the market? Is this possible?


Same could be said more sincerely of the state-owned and state-subsidised Chinese big three, who typically have far lower fares than the MEB3. But of course it won't be because the US3 want to work with them.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
Arion640
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sat Jul 08, 2017 9:51 pm

What about easyjet japan? Qantas russia?

Silly thread, if the rules regarding airline ownership didn't exist they still wouldn't do it, they can get a US carrier to feed the international flights, ie B6, they are an international carrier channelling traffic through a hub, thats the Business model, not US domestic flying. Pointless trying as they'd never compete with the US3 + Southwest, Spirit, Alaska/Virgin America etc.
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burnsie28
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:26 pm

Let them do it, and then when their service is found not to be any different or worse on the domestic market, nuff said. Everyone thinks they have this amazing service and it could happen anywhere. Good marketing, but reality will be different when they can't hire supermodels for 5 year contracts etc. Labor laws here will kill them alone.
 
B737900ER
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:53 am

SFOtoORD wrote:
DfwAussie wrote:
Why would any person want EK America? While their service levels are generally better than US carriers, they aren't even close to the Southeast Asia carriers. Let us know when seats go on sale for LBB-DFW on a 380.


Haha. Great point. I think the other issue is that the Virgin brand will play much better with US consumers than Emirates would. I know Emirates does relatively well on their US intl service, but not likely to play well for Ma and Pa Kettle on US domestic service.

As long as the price is 10 dollars cheaper Ma and Pa Kettle won't care what name is on side of the airplane.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:49 am

Even if it were possible, they still wouldn't do it. The US is just not an attractive country for foreign companies to start a business. The US laws are very protective when it comes to ownership and control, so effectively they can't bring in their money to fund it and once funded they can't control it. There are hundreds of countries that are more attractive than the USA, so if they did they'd first do it there.
 
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intotheair
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:40 am

Cranky Flier's piece on this was really well-thought out:

Foreign Airlines Should Be Able to Fly Within the US and Lose Money if They Want
http://crankyflier.com/2017/06/01/forei ... they-want/
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zeke
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:07 am

TWA772LR wrote:
They would need a tremendous amount of capital up front to even make a meaningfull presence in the US domestic market, and the market has spoken that (U)LCC-type service is the way to go. It's a bloodbath in the largest cities which all have at least 1 US3 hub AND WN. The big picture shows that VX is going away because not enough people pay for the fancy-ness.

An interesting idea however would be for EK to for a JV with B6 or even buy a stake in them, which I believe could help them become a larger player in North America.


FYI the yields in Asia and the Middle East are about 5 times lower than domestically in the US. EK are used to operating in much lower yield environments, that is how they make money, they move massive number of people with lower yield.

The easiest way forward if they wanted to do this is to have an equity partnership with an existing airline.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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zeke
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:12 am

dtw2hyd wrote:

#1 CEO has to be American


I don't understand why the CEO would have to be American. The CEO is a position of strategy not Day to day control. If I am not mistaken the SEC does not prevent a non American to be CEO within the US.

As for everything else all US laws have to be followed, it is not should, it is must.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:42 am

zeke wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:

#1 CEO has to be American


I don't understand why the CEO would have to be American. The CEO is a position of strategy not Day to day control. If I am not mistaken the SEC does not prevent a non American to be CEO within the US.

As for everything else all US laws have to be followed, it is not should, it is must.


Because airline CEOs are privy to some level of national security details. It is not India where every airline CEO is a foreigner, except one.
 
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zeke
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:53 am

I would be interested to read about that law. Would you know where I could look it up ?
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
cledaybuck
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:11 pm

zeke wrote:
I would be interested to read about that law. Would you know where I could look it up ?
I believe it comes from the definition of citizen under 49 U.S.C. 40102.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/40102
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
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res77W
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:56 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
Delta U.A.E is that possible?

Could Delta get funding from the UAE (cheap debt) to open a subsidiary at DXB, dumping unprofitable seats on the market? Is this possible?


Delta U.A.E. or Deltarabia...interesting thought. Though it wouldn't make business sense, Delta could be petty and start it to keep the US3 vs ME3 war going. Just my :twocents:

-Rowen
 
flyingcat
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:16 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:

#1 CEO has to be American



As Fred Reid found out the DOT felt he was not American enough.
 
739er
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:33 pm

Would Arab oil money fund this proposed airline venture too?
 
EWRandMDW
Posts: 423
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Re: Emirates America ? is that possible?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:45 pm

Let's all form America's Emirates and slap American flags on all the aircraft and airline property. Also, let's change all the advertising at sports stadiums and patches on soccer (if you're America's Emirates you can't call it football!) uniforms and merchandising paraphenalia.And finally, just for sh!ts and giggles, why not change UEA to USE? Sure, it'll pi$$ off a few countries, but all those dollars and dinars and rials and whatever will flow into Washington's coffers and anything that hasn't been outright appropriated by our elected representatives can go to pay down the national debt. And the oil! The thought gives me goosebumps. How about it?

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