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TerminalD
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QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service; DL Considers ME/India Return

Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:27 pm

You know this is all bull when something this obvious is false. Those who don't follow the industry don't know the difference. DL has never flown to Doha, they flew to Dubai. Different country.

Further, DL did not have connections beyond Dubai, so the QR service to DOH only was damaging in that it added one more connect option to DXB, on top of the dozens that already existed.

Delta Air Lines (DAL) would resume flights to India and the Middle East if the U.S. were to successfully restrain the growth of the Middle East carriers, says CEO Ed Bastian.

"We're going to go back to be able to fly back to the Middle East," Bastian said. "We're going to be able to add jobs, lots of jobs. We are going to be able to add new longhaul airplanes to support that growth. And that's just the start."

In February 2016, Delta ended its Atlanta-Doha flight, saying it could not compete with subsidized service to multiple U.S. hubs by Mideast carriers. In May, Qatar Airways began Doha-Atlanta service.


https://www.thestreet.com/story/1421289 ... yptr=yahoo
Last edited by atcsundevil on Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Threads merged
 
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LAXintl
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:42 pm

Its another example of poor journalism by Ted Reed.

DL did not say they served Doha, its poor fact checking and reporting by the journalist.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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jetblastdubai
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:53 pm

This is what happens when everyone gets a participation ribbon instead of actually having to do research, work or compete. Journalism standards have fallen off a cliff in recent years which is why any person that really wants to be informed on a certain topic needs to scour through several different media sources. There are still some good journalists and media companies out there that do pretty decent research and don't have to issue retractions every other day for impulsive, shoddy reporting from a few days prior.

When tweets, anonymous sources or any other social media bleeps are used as a news source, the content is bound to be subjective.
 
stlgph
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:12 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
This is what happens when everyone gets a participation ribbon instead of actually having to do research, work or compete. Journalism standards have fallen off a cliff in recent years which is why any person that really wants to be informed on a certain topic needs to scour through several different media sources. There are still some good journalists and media companies out there that do pretty decent research and don't have to issue retractions every other day for impulsive, shoddy reporting from a few days prior.

When tweets, anonymous sources or any other social media bleeps are used as a news source, the content is bound to be subjective.



Yes, indeed. *Some* good ones and *some* brilliant ones are still out there, but then you come across people like Ted Reed. You could email the guy and say you're buying a $500 million stake in TWA and you plan to launch 10 new China routes and he'd publish it.
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flyfresno
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:17 pm

jetblastdubai wrote:
This is what happens when everyone gets a participation ribbon


Probably the most grossly overused phrase of the last 6 months.

If you look at it, the article has since been corrected to change Doha to Dubai, which is a route Delta did fly. Could just be a typo, a mistake quite a few of us have made. A couple months ago, the Indianapolis business journal wrote an article about how IND was looking to get non-stop service to (among other cities), Frankfort. They obviously meant Frankfurt, but no one crucified the author over the mistake.
 
TerminalD
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:08 pm

flyfresno wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
This is what happens when everyone gets a participation ribbon


Probably the most grossly overused phrase of the last 6 months.

If you look at it, the article has since been corrected to change Doha to Dubai, which is a route Delta did fly. Could just be a typo, a mistake quite a few of us have made. A couple months ago, the Indianapolis business journal wrote an article about how IND was looking to get non-stop service to (among other cities), Frankfort. They obviously meant Frankfurt, but no one crucified the author over the mistake.

A crutch that journalism uses to pretend mistakes never happened.

The entire point of the story makes no sense now as EK never flew to ATL and QR never flew ATL-DXB. DL only flew to DXB. How did QR hurt ATL-DXB on DL? People don't drive DOH-DXB. DOH is just a connect point, there's basically zero local traffic. DL couldn't connect past DXB. They don't even have an interline agreement with EK or FlyDubai. All QR did was add another connect option to DXB. There's like 20 already. The impact on ATL-DXB was almost nothing.

Are we saying that people going to the Middle East don't care whether they are going to Dubai or Doha? ROTFL. I guess NK adding ATL-LAS hurts DL on ATL-SFO???
 
flyfresno
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:59 pm

TerminalD wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
jetblastdubai wrote:
This is what happens when everyone gets a participation ribbon


Probably the most grossly overused phrase of the last 6 months.

If you look at it, the article has since been corrected to change Doha to Dubai, which is a route Delta did fly. Could just be a typo, a mistake quite a few of us have made. A couple months ago, the Indianapolis business journal wrote an article about how IND was looking to get non-stop service to (among other cities), Frankfort. They obviously meant Frankfurt, but no one crucified the author over the mistake.

A crutch that journalism uses to pretend mistakes never happened.

The entire point of the story makes no sense now as EK never flew to ATL and QR never flew ATL-DXB. DL only flew to DXB. How did QR hurt ATL-DXB on DL? People don't drive DOH-DXB. DOH is just a connect point, there's basically zero local traffic. DL couldn't connect past DXB. They don't even have an interline agreement with EK or FlyDubai. All QR did was add another connect option to DXB. There's like 20 already. The impact on ATL-DXB was almost nothing.

Are we saying that people going to the Middle East don't care whether they are going to Dubai or Doha? ROTFL. I guess NK adding ATL-LAS hurts DL on ATL-SFO???


Your main criticism seems to be all about how the author stated that Delta flew to Doha when they never did. ("You know this is all bull when something this obvious is false. Those who don't follow the industry don't know the difference. DL has never flown to Doha, they flew to Dubai. Different country.") On that point, I think you could easily assume that the intention was "Dubai."

The extent to which the Doha route caused Delta to discontinue Dubai is really only known by Delta's network planning department, but I would argue that it's not zero. Delta has been known to suspend international routes on the smallest of hunches that said route would lose money (or make significantly less of it), and you might even add that such a suspension was a retaliatory measure. I would never say that this route alone caused Delta to suspend Dubai, but I also wouldn't say it had zero impact either.
 
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AI126
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:23 pm

I love flying Delta, but seriously, hearing them whine about the ME3 and pulling blatant falsehoods out of their behinds is getting really old and annoying at this point. I remember at one point, a Delta executive said they would fly SEA-HYD if it weren't for the ME3 (https://www.travelcodex.com/2015/04/the ... -figures2/). Why don't they actually compete and price the ME3 out of the market? Beat them at their own game. Seriously, this is just damn ridiculous at this point.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:52 pm

AI126 wrote:
I love flying Delta, but seriously, hearing them whine about the ME3 and pulling blatant falsehoods out of their behinds is getting really old and annoying at this point. I remember at one point, a Delta executive said they would fly SEA-HYD if it weren't for the ME3 (https://www.travelcodex.com/2015/04/the ... -figures2/). Why don't they actually compete and price the ME3 out of the market? Beat them at their own game. Seriously, this is just damn ridiculous at this point.


Yep, this article is "fake news" but the constant bashing is getting old. Come back to me when QR starts flying ATL-LAX or EK starts flying JFK-LHR.
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TonyBurr
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:53 pm

There is no comparison between the hard/soft/service product between QTAR and DELTA. Qatar far outshines Delta and that has NOTHING to do with subsidies, but service culture.
 
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deltadawg
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 9:58 pm

WOW!! This thread seems to be getting more contentious by the minute. :stirthepot:

I would only point out to folks here that DL seems to be looking for ways to get back to India and perhaps the Middle East via talks with Jet Airways. Essentially bypassing the DXB route and going straight to India as it were.

That being said, I will say that the ME3 have it in their best interest to make money and if they see ATL as a route they can make money at so be it and try it if they think they can make it. I personally find the practices of the ME3 somewhat predatory in nature but then again business is HELL and DL needs to fight fire with fire. I remember when B6 came into ATL back in 2003/4 DL and FL both retaliated with increased frequencies and lower fares but they were fighting a typical business model airline. The ME3 is a different animal altogether and I believe that is what DL is afraid of. I believe DL could have made the video a bit better in terms of not smacking the ME3 square in the face but rather danced around the issue and still made their point. However, we must remember that the ME3's introduction into a new market is essentially the same principle as price dumping via the Japanese car makers in the 70's and the 80's and we see the results. Toyota, Nissan, Honda are all still here while Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Plymouth, Saturn, Mercury and AMC are all gone. I am not saying that those manufacturers didn't make crap cars (and they did) but the argument is basically the same. In the end, Delta has to fight fire with fire and I believe they are looking at a smart way to do it with Jet Airways.

Post note: my curiosity is why DL chooses not to include Turkish in with the ME3 because I have seen the fares out of ATL to everywhere Turkish flies and their fares are extremely cheap. I flew them one time from ATL-IST-ZRH not long after they came to ATL and they were approximately $500-550 cheaper than DL direct to ZRH. I personally see Turkish as more of a threat to DL than the ME3.

Just my .02
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ASQ400
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:14 pm

deltadawg wrote:
WOW!! This thread seems to be getting more contentious by the minute. :stirthepot:

I would only point out to folks here that DL seems to be looking for ways to get back to India and perhaps the Middle East via talks with Jet Airways. Essentially bypassing the DXB route and going straight to India as it were.

That being said, I will say that the ME3 have it in their best interest to make money and if they see ATL as a route they can make money at so be it and try it if they think they can make it. I personally find the practices of the ME3 somewhat predatory in nature but then again business is HELL and DL needs to fight fire with fire. I remember when B6 came into ATL back in 2003/4 DL and FL both retaliated with increased frequencies and lower fares but they were fighting a typical business model airline. The ME3 is a different animal altogether and I believe that is what DL is afraid of. I believe DL could have made the video a bit better in terms of not smacking the ME3 square in the face but rather danced around the issue and still made their point. However, we must remember that the ME3's introduction into a new market is essentially the same principle as price dumping via the Japanese car makers in the 70's and the 80's and we see the results. Toyota, Nissan, Honda are all still here while Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Plymouth, Saturn, Mercury and AMC are all gone. I am not saying that those manufacturers didn't make crap cars (and they did) but the argument is basically the same. In the end, Delta has to fight fire with fire and I believe they are looking at a smart way to do it with Jet Airways.

Post note: my curiosity is why DL chooses not to include Turkish in with the ME3 because I have seen the fares out of ATL to everywhere Turkish flies and their fares are extremely cheap. I flew them one time from ATL-IST-ZRH not long after they came to ATL and they were approximately $500-550 cheaper than DL direct to ZRH. I personally see Turkish as more of a threat to DL than the ME3.

Just my .02

I'd say the difference is subsidies. I don't see TK flying A380s half-empty, but I need only turn to the tarmac of DXB for that very sight.
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PerfectGriffin
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:27 am

ASQ400 wrote:
deltadawg wrote:
WOW!! This thread seems to be getting more contentious by the minute. :stirthepot:

I would only point out to folks here that DL seems to be looking for ways to get back to India and perhaps the Middle East via talks with Jet Airways. Essentially bypassing the DXB route and going straight to India as it were.

That being said, I will say that the ME3 have it in their best interest to make money and if they see ATL as a route they can make money at so be it and try it if they think they can make it. I personally find the practices of the ME3 somewhat predatory in nature but then again business is HELL and DL needs to fight fire with fire. I remember when B6 came into ATL back in 2003/4 DL and FL both retaliated with increased frequencies and lower fares but they were fighting a typical business model airline. The ME3 is a different animal altogether and I believe that is what DL is afraid of. I believe DL could have made the video a bit better in terms of not smacking the ME3 square in the face but rather danced around the issue and still made their point. However, we must remember that the ME3's introduction into a new market is essentially the same principle as price dumping via the Japanese car makers in the 70's and the 80's and we see the results. Toyota, Nissan, Honda are all still here while Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Plymouth, Saturn, Mercury and AMC are all gone. I am not saying that those manufacturers didn't make crap cars (and they did) but the argument is basically the same. In the end, Delta has to fight fire with fire and I believe they are looking at a smart way to do it with Jet Airways.

Post note: my curiosity is why DL chooses not to include Turkish in with the ME3 because I have seen the fares out of ATL to everywhere Turkish flies and their fares are extremely cheap. I flew them one time from ATL-IST-ZRH not long after they came to ATL and they were approximately $500-550 cheaper than DL direct to ZRH. I personally see Turkish as more of a threat to DL than the ME3.

Just my .02

I'd say the difference is subsidies. I don't see TK flying A380s half-empty, but I need only turn to the tarmac of DXB for that very sight.


What half empty A380's? Do you have actual proof or do you just make things up?
 
skystar767
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:58 am

I think delta should team up with gulf air and use gulf air as a feeder out of BAH. Gulf air flys all over India and the rest of the Middle East. EK passenger load on a 380 may or may not be a 90-100% full but you better believe the belly is full of cargo.
 
IPFreely
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:19 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Yep, this article is "fake news" but the constant bashing is getting old. Come back to me when QR starts flying ATL-LAX or EK starts flying JFK-LHR.


I'd say come back when Delta ends their hypocrisy regarding subsidies.
 
ASQ400
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:03 am

PerfectGriffin wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
deltadawg wrote:
WOW!! This thread seems to be getting more contentious by the minute. :stirthepot:

I would only point out to folks here that DL seems to be looking for ways to get back to India and perhaps the Middle East via talks with Jet Airways. Essentially bypassing the DXB route and going straight to India as it were.

That being said, I will say that the ME3 have it in their best interest to make money and if they see ATL as a route they can make money at so be it and try it if they think they can make it. I personally find the practices of the ME3 somewhat predatory in nature but then again business is HELL and DL needs to fight fire with fire. I remember when B6 came into ATL back in 2003/4 DL and FL both retaliated with increased frequencies and lower fares but they were fighting a typical business model airline. The ME3 is a different animal altogether and I believe that is what DL is afraid of. I believe DL could have made the video a bit better in terms of not smacking the ME3 square in the face but rather danced around the issue and still made their point. However, we must remember that the ME3's introduction into a new market is essentially the same principle as price dumping via the Japanese car makers in the 70's and the 80's and we see the results. Toyota, Nissan, Honda are all still here while Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Plymouth, Saturn, Mercury and AMC are all gone. I am not saying that those manufacturers didn't make crap cars (and they did) but the argument is basically the same. In the end, Delta has to fight fire with fire and I believe they are looking at a smart way to do it with Jet Airways.

Post note: my curiosity is why DL chooses not to include Turkish in with the ME3 because I have seen the fares out of ATL to everywhere Turkish flies and their fares are extremely cheap. I flew them one time from ATL-IST-ZRH not long after they came to ATL and they were approximately $500-550 cheaper than DL direct to ZRH. I personally see Turkish as more of a threat to DL than the ME3.

Just my .02

I'd say the difference is subsidies. I don't see TK flying A380s half-empty, but I need only turn to the tarmac of DXB for that very sight.


What half empty A380's? Do you have actual proof or do you just make things up?

Do you want to check EK's load factors on some present or former A380 routes?
DFW, for example, lasted like that for years before downgauging to 77W. I can't recall the others, but I know they exist
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AirbusMDCFAN
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Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:40 am

link/Source: https://www.thestreet.com/story/1421289 ... yptr=yahoo


"would resume flights to India and the Middle East if the U.S. were to successfully restrain the growth of the Middle East carriers, says CEO Ed Bastian."

"When we win this fight, we're going to go back to India," "Bastian said during a 15-minute movie intended to explain Delta's involvement in the conflict to employees and posted recently on its website."

"We're going to go back to be able to fly back to the Middle East," Bastian said. "We're going to be able to add jobs, lots of jobs. We are going to be able to add new longhaul airplanes to support that growth. And that's just the start."

Currently Delta only services Tel Aviv in the Middle East/Asia region. Could Dubai comeback and new service to Abu Dhabi or Doha be possible from ATL
or DTW.

Which cities aside from Mumbai and Delhi would Delta consider serving

Could we see additional A350s/A330NEOs or newer 777 variants be added to serve the Middle East/Asia and India regions.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:55 am

India should work given the new 9W partnership.

Does anyone think they could surprise us and one-up RJ with DTW-AMM?
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catiii
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:12 am

A bankruptcy subsidy and a PBGC subsidy to bail them out, and they complain about the ME3. Always strikes me as so rich.

Anyway somehow UA makes India work (maybe off a superior hub at EWR that also taps the diaspora), and yet DL can't make it work. Seems like it's less a subsidy issue and more a DL issue.
 
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:14 am

Lol. It is almost like saying 'We would triple our presence between JFK and LHR if BA didn't operate and if there were more slots available. This would mean jobs, so many more jobs'.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:22 am

ASQ400 wrote:
PerfectGriffin wrote:
ASQ400 wrote:
I'd say the difference is subsidies. I don't see TK flying A380s half-empty, but I need only turn to the tarmac of DXB for that very sight.


What half empty A380's? Do you have actual proof or do you just make things up?

Do you want to check EK's load factors on some present or former A380 routes?
DFW, for example, lasted like that for years before downgauging to 77W. I can't recall the others, but I know they exist


And yet cargo might be big.

I wish the EK routes I flew were half empty.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
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scbriml
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:05 am

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
"would resume flights to India and the Middle East if the U.S. were to successfully restrain the growth of the Middle East carriers, says CEO Ed Bastian."


So what he's really saying is, we'd resume flights to India and ME if there was no competition! :rotfl:
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wenders825
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:14 am

TWA772LR wrote:
India should work given the new 9W partnership.

Does anyone think they could surprise us and one-up RJ with DTW-AMM?

agreed on the first statement but not so much the second. RJ make that flight work with all the connections (BEY being the most popular), whereas Delta would be feeding a lot of self-connects, which doesn't make them nearly as much money
 
scotron11
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:44 am

DL have the perfect aircraft for India....the A359....instead of saying IF, they should do. Im sure they would do very well there. They seem to have a good enough product and an enormous domestic network to feed into.

As to ME, not so much..would rely much more on O&D, even the ME3 are not doing too well as of now.
 
anshabhi
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:02 am

scotron11 wrote:
DL have the perfect aircraft for India....the A359....instead of saying IF, they should do. Im sure they would do very well there. They seem to have a good enough product and an enormous domestic network to feed into.


1. Atleast 50% of your cabin and ground crew should be able to speak Indian languages.
2. Indian meals should be in main course, and not required to be booked separately.
3. IFE should have a lot of Indian content, including in local languages.

If DL is able to make these true, I would agree with you that they have a good enough product to win over ME3.
 
BravoOne
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:20 am

anshabhi wrote:
scotron11 wrote:
DL have the perfect aircraft for India....the A359....instead of saying IF, they should do. Im sure they would do very well there. They seem to have a good enough product and an enormous domestic network to feed into.


1. Atleast 50% of your cabin and ground crew should be able to speak Indian languages.
2. Indian meals should be in main course, and not required to be booked separately.
3. IFE should have a lot of Indian content, including in local languages.

If DL is able to make these true, I would agree with you that they have a good enough product to win over ME3.



These are all excellent points and show some thought and understanding of the market. Kind of fresh instead of the same old stuff from the DL bashers.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:44 am

It's OK Delta you don't have to win this fight on our account we are perfectly happy with the options we now have with QR, EK and EY to India and the middle east. If you win this fight fares are likely to go up in these markets by 50% and the quality of the service would probably diminish at the same rate. Please use your resources to work on you IT issues rather than fighting a foe that no one has an issue with but you and while your at it why not bring back all that off shore maintenance to create some much needed jobs in the USA
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
TerminalD
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:46 am

flyfresno wrote:
The extent to which the Doha route caused Delta to discontinue Dubai is really only known by Delta's network planning department, but I would argue that it's not zero.

In a market like DFW where there is non-stop service to DXB (if DL had stayed), QR only gets about 3 passengers per day to DXB according to MIDT. B6's code share with EK via BOS typically does more than that. Bottom line, it wasn't the catastrophic impact implied and the size of QR's hub in DOH (which is blamed as the cause of Delta's lack of Middle East service by saying it is uneconomically large and therefore subsidized) had no impact on ATL-DXB. Even if QR's entire network consisted of ATL-DOH and DOH-DXB the impact on DL's ATL-DXB would have been the same. So network size was unrelated.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:46 am

TWA772LR wrote:
India should work given the new 9W partnership.

Does anyone think they could surprise us and one-up RJ with DTW-AMM?



No I don't think so because DTW-AMM is very low yielding and Delta isn't interested in low yielding traffic
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MKIAZ
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:59 am

Yea this is like Best Buy saying hey we would open more stores and create jobs if we could just get the government to step in and shut down Amazon. Let's face it. DL cannot compete. The ME3 will win every time. They are cheaper, more convenient, have better hard products (at least in business/first), much better/ more consistent service.
 
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OA940
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:13 am

And I thought that he wouldn't talk about the ME3. Silly, naive me!
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Irehdna
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:19 am

A 77L should work for them JFK-BOM. Feed at both ends (9W at BOM) and perhaps the highest yielding route between India and NA.
 
tphuang
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:23 am

MKIAZ wrote:
Yea this is like Best Buy saying hey we would open more stores and create jobs if we could just get the government to step in and shut down Amazon. Let's face it. DL cannot compete. The ME3 will win every time. They are cheaper, more convenient, have better hard products (at least in business/first), much better/ more consistent service.

Not just premium product. The Indian expats I know all really like their a380 economy product. 777 is a different story. Either way, Emirates has very good reputation. Delta simply can't provide the same value. The one thing they could offer is direct flight but that would only be for one or two cities. For rest of India with Emirates flights, I cannot imagine how Delta could win that.
 
ME720
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:23 am

Who in their right mind will choose DL AA or UA when they can fly The ME3, or LH LX AF BA even with 1 stop! The difference in service between US carriers and the rest (on the ground and in the air) is simply mind blowing!
 
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767Forever
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:31 am

He keeps mentioned jobs, almost sounds like he is sending a message to Trump.
 
scotron11
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:33 am

ME720 wrote:
Who in their right mind will choose DL AA or UA when they can fly The ME3, or LH LX AF BA even with 1 stop! The difference in service between US carriers and the rest (on the ground and in the air) is simply mind blowing!


So maybe they should just up their game...DL cannot be all that bad!
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:35 am

Not going to happen if DL is looking for double-digit margins.

9W is the best thing going for DL right now, don't let it slip.
All posts are just opinions.
 
klwright69
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:46 am

DL seems to be doing just fine without serving the middle east or India. Just a thought.
 
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scbriml
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:59 am

767Forever wrote:
He keeps mentioned jobs, almost sounds like he is sending a message to Trump.


Boeing also mentioned jobs when they announced QR's 777 & 787 top-up last October as a reminder to Trump that the ME3 are big customers.

So who's Trump going to listen to? :scratchchin:
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
There are 10 types of people in the World - those that understand binary and those that don't.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:18 pm

klwright69 wrote:
DL seems to be doing just fine without serving the middle east or India. Just a thought.


But their piece of the pie is never big enough until the own the whole thing.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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AI126
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:21 pm

Considering that Boeing is a defense contractor and that the defense industry lobbies way more than airlines, Trump will definitely stick with Boeing. After he makes "amazing deals" amirite? ;D

DL is full of such bulls***t. If they really wanted to make India work, they could do it right now. What they're basically saying is "Unless we have a monopoly, we won't try!!" How childish is that? Seriously.

The DoT should do something similar to what they did with DL's SEA-HND flights if they are considering this. Require that in order to restrain ME3 access, DL has to fly daily nonstop flights to at least three different India routes or something like that. And as soon as DL cancels one of them, the walls fall down on the ME3. They need to stop acting like children and actually compete. Again, they can launch their own flights and price the ME3 out of the market. Beat them at their own game, not acting like a two year old whose parents didn't buy him his favorite toy.

The tantrum is just straight up pathetic.
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:21 pm

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
link/Source: https://www.thestreet.com/story/1421289 ... yptr=yahoo


"would resume flights to India and the Middle East if the U.S. were to successfully restrain the growth of the Middle East carriers, says CEO Ed Bastian."

"When we win this fight, we're going to go back to India," "Bastian said during a 15-minute movie intended to explain Delta's involvement in the conflict to employees and posted recently on its website."

"We're going to go back to be able to fly back to the Middle East," Bastian said. "We're going to be able to add jobs, lots of jobs. We are going to be able to add new longhaul airplanes to support that growth. And that's just the start."

Currently Delta only services Tel Aviv in the Middle East/Asia region. Could Dubai comeback and new service to Abu Dhabi or Doha be possible from ATL
or DTW.

Which cities aside from Mumbai and Delhi would Delta consider serving

Could we see additional A350s/A330NEOs or newer 777 variants be added to serve the Middle East/Asia and India regions.



DTW is a wide open market right now with no completion to India with an affordable link badly needed let Delta put it's money where it's mouth is and Start a DTW-BOM route on 9W Better get a leg up on the ME3 before they tap this market to.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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klm617
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:26 pm

AI126 wrote:
Considering that Boeing is a defense contractor and that the defense industry lobbies way more than airlines, Trump will definitely stick with Boeing. After he makes "amazing deals" amirite? ;D

DL is full of such bulls***t. If they really wanted to make India work, they could do it right now. What they're basically saying is "Unless we have a monopoly, we won't try!!" How childish is that? Seriously.

The DoT should do something similar to what they did with DL's SEA-HND flights if they are considering this. Require that in order to restrain ME3 access, DL has to fly daily nonstop flights to at least three different India routes or something like that. And as soon as DL cancels one of them, the walls fall down on the ME3. They need to stop acting like children and actually compete. Again, they can launch their own flights and price the ME3 out of the market. Beat them at their own game, not acting like a two year old whose parents didn't buy him his favorite toy.

The tantrum is just straight up pathetic.


I think they should be required to bring all maintaence in house and slash their regional flying in half to have their purposel even considered. Bastian is nothing but a mouth piece that talks out off both sides of his mouth and he's not to be trusted one bit.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
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AI126
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:27 pm

klm617 wrote:
AI126 wrote:
Considering that Boeing is a defense contractor and that the defense industry lobbies way more than airlines, Trump will definitely stick with Boeing. After he makes "amazing deals" amirite? ;D

DL is full of such bulls***t. If they really wanted to make India work, they could do it right now. What they're basically saying is "Unless we have a monopoly, we won't try!!" How childish is that? Seriously.

The DoT should do something similar to what they did with DL's SEA-HND flights if they are considering this. Require that in order to restrain ME3 access, DL has to fly daily nonstop flights to at least three different India routes or something like that. And as soon as DL cancels one of them, the walls fall down on the ME3. They need to stop acting like children and actually compete. Again, they can launch their own flights and price the ME3 out of the market. Beat them at their own game, not acting like a two year old whose parents didn't buy him his favorite toy.

The tantrum is just straight up pathetic.


I think they should be required to bring all maintaence in house and slash their regional flying in half to have their purposel even considered. Bastian is nothing but a mouth piece that talks out off both sides of his mouth and he's not to be trusted one bit.


Or they should be required to sell their stakes in MU and CZ and ban them from flying to China where the airlines are literally and proven to be subsidized.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:33 pm

klm617 wrote:

DTW is a wide open market right now with no completion to India with an affordable link badly needed let Delta put it's money where it's mouth is and Start a DTW-BOM route on 9W Better get a leg up on the ME3 before they tap this market to.


Agreed, I think DTW/JFK-BOM would be the best for DL. It seems to be that the best bet for US3 to start India service is from locations that are in a northern hub, and are not served by ME3, AI, or candidates for AI to begin. (JFK is exception since it is highest-yielding market in USA.)

I am still shocked UA is still running EWR-BOM. When AI started JFK-BOM on top of DL, DL left the market 1 year later. When AI started ORD-DEL on top of AA, AA left the market 1 year later. So when AI launched EWR-BOM, how is UA still holding up? From what I know in NJ nearly all people will prefer AI to UA, so the UA flight is mostly connecting passengers. With competition from ME3 and now especially AC, we will have to see how long UA can survive. As bad as some make out AI to be (I don't think they really are that bad TBH), they still have a much better reputation internationally than UA, and probably similar to AC. (I don't think UA are in that much trouble on EWR-DEL, however, given lack of competition and *A hub at DEL.)

Now unless AI restart a JFK-BOM flight (which is very unlikely), DL will have a monopoly on the true JFK-BOM market for a while (EWR primarily is only used for NJ residents/businesses, not so much business travellers in Manhattan/LI).
Last edited by Irehdna on Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
ual763
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:43 pm

Irehdna wrote:
klm617 wrote:

DTW is a wide open market right now with no completion to India with an affordable link badly needed let Delta put it's money where it's mouth is and Start a DTW-BOM route on 9W Better get a leg up on the ME3 before they tap this market to.


Agreed, I think DTW/JFK-BOM would be the best for DL.

I am still shocked UA is still running EWR-BOM. When AI started JFK-BOM on top of DL, DL left the market 1 year later. When AI started ORD-DEL on top of AA, AA left the market 1 year later. So when AI launched EWR-BOM, how is UA still holding up? From what I know in NJ nearly all people will prefer AI to UA, so the UA flight is mostly connecting passengers. With competition from ME3 and now especially AC, we will have to see how long UA can survive. As bad as some make out AI to be (I don't think they really are that bad TBH), they still have a much better reputation internationally than UA, and probably similar to AC. (I don't think UA are in that much trouble on EWR-DEL, however, given lack of competition and *A hub at DEL.)

Now unless AI restart a JFK-BOM flight (which is very unlikely), DL will have a monopoly on the true JFK-BOM market for a while (EWR primarily is only used for NJ residents/businesses, not so much business travellers in Manhattan/LI).


If you've ever flown on AI, you'd know how much their quality sucks. United is way better! Comparing business products. Air India's B77W was just plain disgusting inside.
From flying to the NOTAM office
 
flyfresno
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:45 pm

TerminalD wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
The extent to which the Doha route caused Delta to discontinue Dubai is really only known by Delta's network planning department, but I would argue that it's not zero.

In a market like DFW where there is non-stop service to DXB (if DL had stayed), QR only gets about 3 passengers per day to DXB according to MIDT. B6's code share with EK via BOS typically does more than that. Bottom line, it wasn't the catastrophic impact implied and the size of QR's hub in DOH (which is blamed as the cause of Delta's lack of Middle East service by saying it is uneconomically large and therefore subsidized) had no impact on ATL-DXB. Even if QR's entire network consisted of ATL-DOH and DOH-DXB the impact on DL's ATL-DXB would have been the same. So network size was unrelated.


I think you are oversimplifying things. There is more to the picture than simply how many people are connecting from ATL-DOH-DXB. To say that there was absolutely *zero* impact on DXB is a pretty strong argument to prove unless you have access to all of the same data that Delta and Qatar network planners do AND wish to present it all here (which I'm fairly sure would be a huge violation of non-disclosure agreements).

That said, I'm not arguing with your overall premise that this article is off base in implying that Qatar was the main cause of the route drop, and that wasn't my original intent in posting. I was merely saying that the Doha/Dubai word switch was obviously a mistake (the article at least makes sense when you switch the two), was corrected since this post was made, and by itself doesn't make the article completely irrelevant.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:46 pm

klm617 wrote:
klwright69 wrote:
DL seems to be doing just fine without serving the middle east or India. Just a thought.


But their piece of the pie is never big enough until the own the whole thing.


Operating own metal is hardwork, just collect the JV share (or) codeshare/interline pass-thru and be happy about it.

Few issues why US carriers cannot be successful on a large scale, nothing to do with state-owned carriers or subsidies.

1) FA should be able to help passengers. Big no-no in the US, FAs are older than many passengers and liability issues, so they cannot help even an 85-year-old with lifting cabin baggage into the overhead bin.
2) Meat is not food for many. You cannot expect a whole section of passengers to starve for 14-16 hrs because they didn't special order. Online check-in doesn't work most of the time ex-India.
3) Match baggage allowance with your competitors.

ual763 wrote:
If you've ever flown on AI, you'd know how much their quality sucks. United is way better! Comparing business products. Air India's B77W was just plain disgusting inside.

Yet, passengers are paying higher fares to AI than UA. AI cabin interiors may be disgusting but not their crew attitude.
Last edited by dtw2hyd on Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All posts are just opinions.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Delta considering a return to the Middle East and India

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:48 pm

ual763 wrote:

If you've ever flown on AI, you'd know how much their quality sucks. United is way better! Comparing business products. Air India's B77W was just plain disgusting inside.


Most people flying AI will not care about the quality of plastics, but they do care about service and food. I have flown both UA and AI on the route. AI, while it had duct tape armrests and slightly worn-out cloths, had excellent service and food, and arrived on time. Meanwhile on UA, I remember having tighter legroom, worse food (they ran out of veg the one flight), terrible service (as in FA yelling at passengers for only minor mishaps), and only a marginally better-maintained product. Additionally, 2/3 of my UA trips were significantly delayed; 1 left BOM 24 hours late due to "crew-rest issues", and the other ran out of fuel in Hartford CT, and we were forced to find own transportation from there.

I agree UA is not that bad on their domestic routes or more-premium international destinations. But when you have a 16-hour flight from a destination further than 2 hours away from the nearest UA destination, there are naturally bound to be issues with maintenance and management.
 
hohd
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Re: QR Service to ATL Caused DL to End Doha Service?

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:14 pm

The real reason for cancellation of the DXB flight may be that DL was getting many passengers beyond DXB (either connecting directly or passengers flying with 2 separate itineraries) and QR would be competing for the same passengers.

Now that there are no flights between DOH and DXB, perhaps DL can reintroduce the flights. DL should explore the possibility of limited code sharing with almost every airline from DXB, which is not EK or flydubai, this will enable DL to reach those secondary cities (especially those which are not flown by DL's European partners) in South and SE Asia.

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