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Northwest1988
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Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:53 am

Hello all,

What are some of the unserved markets in the US, particularly in the lower 48 that have no commercial airline service? They may have been served in the past but airlines may have terminated the destination. With the ULCC airlines swooping in to cities like Punta Gorda, Florida for example, what else is left?

For example Anderson Regional Airport in South Carolina was once served by multiple small airlines. It's a significantly sized city that is still a decent drive away to ATL or CLT. GSP serves the upstate of South Carolina but there are many people that wish service would return to KAND.

What other cities are like this in the US? Is there anything left to tap or is everything that can have service, does? Thanks!
 
finnishway
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:12 am

San Bernardino.
 
[email protected]
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:16 am

IATA forecasts that 484 million extra passengers will fly in the US by 2035, so there will be a greater focus throughout. Let's hope infrastructure keeps up.

http://www.iata.org/pressroom/pr/Pages/ ... 18-02.aspx
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Beechtobus
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:59 am

Lake Havasu City (HII)(population of 53000 and 200,000 in the metro area)I believe is one of the largest US cities without airline service. They had various service over the years, the last of which being America West Express dash-8s/B1900s to PHX which ended in 2006 I believe.
 
CXA330300
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:25 pm

Essentially unserved - HVN has three flights a day to PHL. I could see that expanding. 600,000 in the New Haven area.
Home airport now: DCA/IAD
 
DesertAir
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:22 pm

Stockton, CA. Over 250,000 in population including the Stockton Metro area, Modesto, Manteca, Lodi and the Mother Lode like Angel´s Camp.
 
Dominion301
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:33 pm

CXA330300 wrote:
Essentially unserved - HVN has three flights a day to PHL. I could see that expanding. 600,000 in the New Haven area.


You could say HVN is underserved, but they're not unserved, plus BDL is only about an hour away, which is shorter than the distance from one end of a major metro area to an airport in many instances.

TOL you could say also fits the underserved, but not unserved category.

As for unserved - Gary, Indiana!
 
B0pp0
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:38 pm

Would the Utica-Rome area count? They haven't had service since Continental pulled out of UCA and while RME recently built a terminal they have had no luck getting service. I think RME is just far enough from SYR to make things work.
 
kwbl
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:03 pm

SLE....Pdx is an hour or more away and traffic is making it more of a challenge. Delta was there 20 years ago and got the pax on the plane but cost of fuel skyrocketed
 
kwbl
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:04 pm

Edit. Delta was there 10 years ago. Modesto is another city...similar to salem
 
phluser
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:17 pm

ILG Wilmington DE, but its pretty close to PHL. PHL being south of the Center City Philly and in between Philly and Wilmington downtowns, essentially makes ILG too close to PHL.

RDG, Reading PA. It's not as close to PHL as ILG, but it remains close enough, plus adequate regional rail train service provides access into PHL when driving is constrained because of traffic. Plus MDT and ABE are also within or just over one hour away.

Although Spirit rules ACY, I think ACY is under-served with no network carrier service. And oddly, the carrier that might be the best fit is AA, even though AA already should already be the leading carrier for the Delaware Valley and South Jersey from it's hub position at PHL.

I've wondered if the FAA Air Shuttle that is between ACY-DCA, could be converted to a daily slot pair between the markets. At that point, that might provide incentive for AA to offer ACY-DCA (1x daily). An extra slot pair at DCA is desirable and might conduce new carrier service at the other airport where the slot pair is intended.

With it, AA could complement it with ACY-CLT (2x or 3x daily). A lot of people like using ACY, and it pulls from Ocean County as well, where those pax might not be have decided to use ACY over PHL (maybe AA's concern of opening at ACY), but ACY over EWR (hence, pulling from pax that would have likely flown UA - good for AA). Ocean County is the fastest growing county in NJ. There is a large Hasidic Jewish population and many use Spirit's ACY flights. ACY-CLT would be good as it's south (which is directionally targeted to Florida but also good for West and overall domestic coverage, where Spirit falls short).
Last edited by phluser on Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
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modernArt
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:19 pm

Del Rio, Texas qualified until recently. An outfit called Texas Sky started one daily to DFW on June 1.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:25 pm

Norfolk, Nebraska useta get North Central / Republic. Definitely CV-580 and mebbe even the odd DC-9.
 
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brianK73
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:32 pm

State of Delaware comes to mind.
 
cheapgreek
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:34 pm

Dominion301 wrote:
CXA330300 wrote:
Essentially unserved - HVN has three flights a day to PHL. I could see that expanding. 600,000 in the New Haven area.


You could say HVN is underserved, but they're not unserved, plus BDL is only about an hour away, which is shorter than the distance from one end of a major metro area to an airport in many instances.

TOL you could say also fits the underserved, but not unserved category.

As for unserved - Gary, Indiana!


On July 19th, the federal court trial will render a verdict in the New Haven's law suit against the state which opposes the expanding of its 5600 foot runway. Some years ago, New Haven was listed as the most underserved city in the country. NW tried twice to start service to DTW but the weight restrictions would have been too great, same for AA wanting to use the ERJ-145 to ORD. SW also surveyed the airport with the same ending. The city should win the case as the state's opposition violates federal interstate commerce laws. BDL is almost in Massachusetts, and at times traffic in Hartford is bumper to bumper. HVN has its own market to draw from which is quite large, over the years two nearby commercial airports have lost airline service, GON and BDR.
Several airlines are waiting for HVN to expand its runway to start service, one being Allegiant. The Dash-8 fleet is winding down very fast at Piedmont and without the runway extension, airline service service will end at New Haven.
 
SyracuseAvGeek
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:34 pm

B0pp0 wrote:
Would the Utica-Rome area count? They haven't had service since Continental pulled out of UCA and while RME recently built a terminal they have had no luck getting service. I think RME is just far enough from SYR to make things work.


I disagree with you on that one, sadly. If Syracuse is too close to ROC and ALB to get SW, that most likely means that RME/UCA is too close to SYR. G4 was going to start flying out of UCA/RME but they didn't because of lack of facilities (that was 4 years ago).
"I haven't been everywhere yet, but it's on my list."
 
zrs70
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:47 pm

Does Topeka have any air service these days?
Santa Fe?
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
ahj2000
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:51 pm

The problem, at least around here, is that businesses $ and people are leaving the smaller cities, and most are within an hour or two to a larger airport anyway
Example:
Hickory NC, MSA population somewhere between 300-400k and about an hour away from CLT, used to have service on USAir to CLT and then Delta* to ATL. Once upon a time, people flew in for the furniture and manufacturing business, as well as being the gateway to resortier cities such as Blowing Rock and Boone.
Now, there isn't any incentive to serve the area as growth bottomed out and average incomes have slightly fallen.
This is the case in a lot of smaller ex-manufacturing towns, so perhaps the incentive to open up tons of airports across the country is not quite there for airlines unless the area is growing or has a decent leisure component to it.
-Andrés Juánez
 
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klm617
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:54 pm

MCD and PTK in Michigan
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:55 pm

brianK73 wrote:
State of Delaware comes to mind.


PHL, with 30 million passengers a year and ~500 scheduled flights a day, is within an hour's drive for a majority of DE's population.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:58 pm

zrs70 wrote:
Does Topeka have any air service these days?
Santa Fe?


http://www.flightstats.com/go/FlightSta ... Airport.do

Six scheduled flights today for SAF; 0 for FOE.
 
kbmiflyer
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:01 pm

LAF (Lafayette, Indiana) used to have American Eagle service back when I went to Purdue in the early 90's that I think lasted into the 2000's. It is just over an hour from IND, so I don't look for it to get service anytime soon.
 
DesertAir
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:33 pm

The current state of mega carriers cannot respond to the smaller/underserved markets that is the point of the discussion. We need a new airline service model for these markets.
 
CanesFan
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:37 pm

Unserved: GYY, DET, BKL,FTW, OPF (needs a terminal)
Underserved: YNG, ORH, PIE, PHF
 
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brianK73
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:58 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
brianK73 wrote:
State of Delaware comes to mind.


PHL, with 30 million passengers a year and ~500 scheduled flights a day, is within an hour's drive for a majority of DE's population.


Actually, even Rhode Island with its comparable size and population and comparable proximity to Boston has its own airport, PVD.
 
kbmiflyer
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:58 pm

CanesFan wrote:
Unserved: ...,FTW, ...


Does FTW have the same Wright Amendment restrictions as DAL? If someone wanted to, could they serve FTW? Allegiant comes to mind as an airline that could start FTW someday.
 
Yflyer
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:21 pm

DesertAir wrote:
Stockton, CA. Over 250,000 in population including the Stockton Metro area, Modesto, Manteca, Lodi and the Mother Lode like Angel´s Camp.


Stockton does have Allegiant, but they do lack any network carrier.

Several smaller California cities lost their only airline service when SkyWest retired their Brasilias -- Chico, Modesto, and some others that I can't think of right now.
 
32andBelow
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:22 pm

DesertAir wrote:
The current state of mega carriers cannot respond to the smaller/underserved markets that is the point of the discussion. We need a new airline service model for these markets.

You need to fix the Crew ATP requirements in the USA before this will happen.
 
KICT
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:35 pm

The new terminal here in Wichita was built with future expansion in mind.
People are saying. Believe me.
 
UWPAviation
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:38 pm

Carbondale, Illinois comes to mind for me. It's one of if not the largest city in southern Illinois, and has Southern Illinois University with around 15,000 students. The vast majority of those students are from Chicago-land.

Im surprised neither AA or UA has regional flight from ORD down there. I'd like to think that during school it would be popular for students getting back home. And southern Illinois is a pretty beautiful area.
 
CHSNYC
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:45 pm

Fort Collins, Colorado. FNL, about an hour north of Denver, lost Allegiant years ago and now has no scheduled commercial airline service. Fort Collins has a population of more than 150,000, and everyone uses Denver International Airport, which is about an hour and 15 mins. away without traffic. It's the largest unserved market in Colorado. Even much-smaller Pueblo, south of Colorado Springs, has a Great Lakes Airlines connection to DIA.
 
dc10lover
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:05 pm

Spokane to Houston via United would work maybe using an Embraer175.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
CanesFan
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:47 pm

kbmiflyer wrote:
CanesFan wrote:
Unserved: ...,FTW, ...


Does FTW have the same Wright Amendment restrictions as DAL? If someone wanted to, could they serve FTW? Allegiant comes to mind as an airline that could start FTW someday.


The Wright Amendment applied to FTW Meacham Field as well, but was repealed in 2014.
 
rajincajun01
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 5:56 pm

CHSNYC wrote:
Fort Collins, Colorado. FNL, about an hour north of Denver, lost Allegiant years ago and now has no scheduled commercial airline service. Fort Collins has a population of more than 150,000, and everyone uses Denver International Airport, which is about an hour and 15 mins. away without traffic. It's the largest unserved market in Colorado. Even much-smaller Pueblo, south of Colorado Springs, has a Great Lakes Airlines connection to DIA.


United Express/SkyWest is replacing Great Lakes at Pueblo in December.
A319 A320 A321 A330 B1900 B717 B727 B737 B757 B767 B777 B787 C172 C402 CR2 CR7 CRJ9 DH8 E120 ERJ135 ERJ145 E170/175/190 L1011 MD80 MD90 SF340
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:02 pm

Unserved: Marathon, Florida (MTH). It can be over an hour to Key West (longer on some days) and well over two hours to MIA. DL at one time served from ATL.

The aforementioned Fort Collins, CO is a good one.
 
flyfresno
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:09 pm

Yflyer wrote:
DesertAir wrote:
Stockton, CA. Over 250,000 in population including the Stockton Metro area, Modesto, Manteca, Lodi and the Mother Lode like Angel´s Camp.


Stockton does have Allegiant, but they do lack any network carrier.

Several smaller California cities lost their only airline service when SkyWest retired their Brasilias -- Chico, Modesto, and some others that I can't think of right now.


It is interesting how many small towns in states like Michigan and Minnesota have air service, while much bigger cities in CA have none...goes to show you that population isn't everything.
 
drdisque
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:17 pm

Modesto has air service.

Carbondale has air service at MWA less than a half hour away.

FOE had service a few years ago to ORD but it didn't work.

PIE has like 400k enplanements last year. Just because it's not served by a network carrier doesn't mean it's automatically underserved.

SAF currently has service from two airlines.

Lake Havasu City probably could support some sort of air service, it's 90 minutes from IFP which barely has air service and 2.5 hours from LAS.

MCD? Seriously? A 3000 ft runway, virtually no permanent population, and one hotel?

It's simply not in the plan for PTK to have scheduled air service. It has been approached before, and they don't want to build a real airline terminal, so anything has to operate out of one of the FBO's. The airport does really well on GA and Cargo and doesn't want to chase the boondoggle of scheduled airline service.
 
Cdydatzigs
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:27 pm

DesertAir wrote:
It is interesting how many small towns in states like Michigan and Minnesota have air service, while much bigger cities in CA have none...goes to show you that population isn't everything.


Many of those cities in the central valley of California are farming communities. They may have large populations, but the majority of the population is service industry and blue collar workforce. Their need to travel is small enough to where they are willing to drive far to the nearest major airport.
 
whatusaid
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:33 pm

Modesto has service? To where?
 
CanesFan
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:38 pm

drdisque wrote:
PIE has like 400k enplanements last year. Just because it's not served by a network carrier doesn't mean it's automatically underserved.


PIE is somewhat unique. Allegiant and its 400k emplanements is certainly nothing to scoff at, but at the same time, they only target the leisure market. Its underserved in that there are few, if any, options for the business traveler.
 
masseybrown
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:43 pm

CanesFan wrote:
Unserved: GYY, DET, BKL,FTW, OPF (needs a terminal)


The BKL-LUK market is doing nicely, with 2x Ultimate Air Shuttle Dornier 328Jets on business days, carrying about 17,000 pax a year. There is talk of additional flying to MDW.
 
bravoindia
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:49 pm

ABE, I understand the arguement of EWR and PHL, but there are so many people in the Lehigh Valley and if the airport were to be smart and try to attract someone like a Frontier or Spirit to compete with G4 it would be fantastic. LNAA does nothing to help the users or airlines it's like they don't want them, like PIT from the USAir days.
Jet-A, coffee, headset.
 
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SANFan
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:55 pm

AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
The aforementioned Fort Collins, CO is a good one.

Someone feel free to correct me but I thought G4 left this airport because there was no tower, or something like that. If that situation has not changed, I wouldn't expect to see anyone serving the airport.

bb
 
jbpdx
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:58 pm

whatusaid wrote:
Modesto has service?


Yep. At Oakland International Airport.
^
 
rajincajun01
Posts: 754
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:21 pm

SANFan wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
The aforementioned Fort Collins, CO is a good one.

Someone feel free to correct me but I thought G4 left this airport because there was no tower, or something like that. If that situation has not changed, I wouldn't expect to see anyone serving the airport.

bb


You are correct. There has been talk for over a year that Elite wants to relaunch service, but it's too far from its core network for nonstop service.
A319 A320 A321 A330 B1900 B717 B727 B737 B757 B767 B777 B787 C172 C402 CR2 CR7 CRJ9 DH8 E120 ERJ135 ERJ145 E170/175/190 L1011 MD80 MD90 SF340
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:33 pm

drdisque wrote:

MCD? Seriously? A 3000 ft runway, virtually no permanent population, and one hotel?



According to Wiki, MCD does have service. 3500 ft runway.

These threads are always interesting. Markets are unserved because no-one feels it's profitable to serve them.
 
irelayer
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:07 pm

Yflyer wrote:
DesertAir wrote:
Stockton, CA. Over 250,000 in population including the Stockton Metro area, Modesto, Manteca, Lodi and the Mother Lode like Angel´s Camp.


Several smaller California cities lost their only airline service when SkyWest retired their Brasilias -- Chico, Modesto, and some others that I can't think of right now.


CLD comes to mind (UA, and I believe AA at one point). There was (and still is, apparently) a startup by some super old rich guy called California Pacific Airlines that planned to fly E170s from Carlsbad to local destinations. They even had a single aircraft painted in a Cal Pacific livery at one point. According to the Wikipedia page, they still plan to startup but fly E135s (terrible economics...) and add E170s later.

Anyway, CLD is actually a good mention. You used to be able to jump on one of those Brasilias and connect through LA to pretty much anywhere. Now, if you live in that area it's either up to SNA (with limited options) on MetroRail or car, or down to SAN. Either way you are talking 50-75 minutes without traffic.

-IR
 
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JBo
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:24 pm

drdisque wrote:
MCD? Seriously? A 3000 ft runway, virtually no permanent population, and one hotel?


There are actually several hotels and resorts on Mackinac Island; The Grand Hotel is just the most well-known.

That said, Mackinac Island is within such close proximity to PLN and CIU that commercial service beyond an air taxi to St. Ignace really isn't necessary.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
 
Chuska
Posts: 455
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:48 pm

Farmington, New Mexico (FMN) is fixin to join the list at any time. Current service is by Great Lakes with fewer and fewer flights. Last July they only operated 3 flights the whole month. FMN has seen the likes of UA*, CO*, AA*, HP* and US* not to mention that it started out as a hub for the original Frontier Airlines in the 1950's (before DEN!). Problem there is when RJ's came about, they were unable to extend any runways as the airport sits on a mesa top (oh, that's where Mesa Airlines got started too!) In the last 15 years or so, FMN has slipped thru the cracks and most traffic now flows thru Durango, CO (DRO), less than an hour away. AA and UA are in DRO but DL has no presence in the four corners region. Today the CRJ-700 and the Airbus 319 are able to blast off from short runways like FMN, DL would probably do well with FMN-SLC service on a CR7. Allegiant also does not have service in this area, FMN-LAS with an A319 would also do well.
 
Chuska
Posts: 455
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Re: Unserved markets in the US.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:01 pm

In Arizona you have Sierra Vista (FHU) and Winslow (INW) and in New Mexico you have Alamogordo (ALM), Gallup (GUP), and Los Alamos (LAM). INW, ALM, and GUP were all cities on the original Frontier Airlines. As GUP is over two hours from ABQ, I would think they could support Boutique Air to PHX but they lost their eligibility for EAS.

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