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Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:59 pm
by LAXintl
Released on the 25th anniversary of the first Open Skies agreement signed by the US, the objective of the study by Campbell-Hill Aviation Group was to quantify the annual economic impact Emirates has on the US economy.

The report attributed that EK supported more than 104,000 American jobs and contributed $21.3 billion in revenue to the US economy, including $10.5 billion to the country’s gross domestic product (GDP) and $6.4 billion of labor income in 2015.

Emirates contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/business/av ... us-economy

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Report itself can be downloaded at: (pdf)
http://cdn.ek.aero/downloads/ek/pdfs/in ... States.pdf

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:34 pm
by mercure1
No doubt the ME3 and other carriers like the rapid growth from China creates major business activity from the US plus all the consumer benefits from the flights themselves.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:56 pm
by LAXintl
Indeed the economic activity the ME3 and markets like China produce for US manufacturing is massive.

Also consumers undoubtfully have been aided with many additional choices of flights/routes and pricing options.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:35 am
by Varsity1
104,000 jobs :lol:

I'd like to see the figures on that.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:40 am
by RL777
Varsity1 wrote:
104,000 jobs :lol:

I'd like to see the figures on that.


It doesn't state whether that figure is direct/indirect in the article, I too am interested to see where they pull that number from.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:47 am
by PlaneCookies
RL777 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
104,000 jobs :lol:

I'd like to see the figures on that.


It doesn't state whether that figure is direct/indirect in the article, I too am interested to see where they pull that number from.


I do indeed have an idea where they pulled that number from. :scratchchin:

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:58 am
Clearly no one bothered to open the PDF. The breakdown of US jobs is on page 21.

Direct: 7518
Indirect: 28963
Induced: 67631

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:46 am
by dtw2hyd
Varsity1 wrote:
104,000 jobs :lol:

I'd like to see the figures on that.


At least this time they hired a DC area PR consulting company. Positive direction.

I am not sure Ms.Aniston got paid full $5M or contract was terminated after the failed shower episode.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:50 am
by Tdan
If each daily widebody contributes approximately $100M in economic impact between the U.S. And the M.E., then this means EK flies 210 daily departures to the U.S.

Yeah, something doesn't smell right in the Campbell Hill report. But then again, Campbell Hill has never been known for its conservative forecasts or estimates...

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:07 am
by zeke
[twoid][/twoid]
[email protected] wrote:
Clearly no one bothered to open the PDF. The breakdown of US jobs is on page 21.

Direct: 7518
Indirect: 28963
Induced: 67631


Yes that indeed is obvious, and the same peoples do it over and over again.


Direct Impacts of Emirates' U.S. Operations: Transportation, marketing and other spending,

labor income and employment related to the handling of aircraft, passengers and cargo at U.S. destination airports.

 Direct Impacts of U.S. Goods and Services Purchased by Emirates for Worldwide Operations: The airline's spending for:

(1) U.S.-built aircraft, engines and other fleet-related commodities and services; and (2) U.S. goods and services in support of its overseas catering operations as well as

information technology and reservations systems provided by U.S. companies and their

overseas affiliates.

 Indirect Impacts of U.S. Spending by New Passenger Demand or Passenger “Stimulation”: Spending by foreign visitors and U.S. originating passengers for:

(1) lodging; (2) food and beverages; (3) recreation/entertainment; (4) air and ground transportation; and (5) education within the U.S.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:21 am
by RoySFlying
Who needs to actually read the report? Who can actually read and interpret it, anyway?

Of course Emirates has absolutely no impact on jobs in the US. All those Boeings they fly around don't generate a single job and no income for anyone. The engines that propel the aircraft, why they're just produced by magic. Not a single job and certainly no money to be made. All the spare parts, obviously cheap rip-offs bought from street vendors in Paris or Venice along with the Gucci handbags and Rolex watches. And even when EK buys from Airbus, well there's absolutely zero US imput there in the way of hardware or software.

Emirates further gains by making the passengers starve during the flights. Why would they purchase meals and drinks? Marketing, sales and distribution: a phonebox in Tijuana. And of course, if Emirates weren't flying somebody else would because we know that previously they ... Oh they didn't.

No,no, anyone who claims that EK has any positive impact in the US whatsoever is obviously wrong and a biased fanboy. You know its true. You read it here on airliners.net.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:41 am
by ikramerica
[email protected] wrote:
Clearly no one bothered to open the PDF. The breakdown of US jobs is on page 21.

Direct: 7518
Indirect: 28963
Induced: 67631

Indirect and induced jobs are like disease related death statistics or causes of traffic accidents. They add up to more than the total by a very large margin.

Then of course there's the question of how many routes and opportunities were lost due to the ME3 taking them. It's not a zero sum game, but it's also not a true that one EK job is one that wouldn't exist otherwise.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:06 am
by abul1988
since we are so concerned about american jobs

delta has more airbus on order while emirates has more boeing on order.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:56 am
by Varsity1
If Emirates didn't carry the traffic, somebody else would. More than likely they would fly Boeing's (and more of them, with the disproportionate popularity of the A380 at EK.

Air travel is a commodity. EK's a subsidized commodity.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:08 am
Varsity1 wrote:
If Emirates didn't carry the traffic, somebody else would. More than likely they would fly Boeing's (and more of them, with the disproportionate popularity of the A380 at EK.

Air travel is a commodity. EK's a subsidized commodity.


And DL is a crybaby which would fly to X, Y and Z if it wasn't for blasted competition, while ironically getting into bed with state-owned and state-subsidised Chinese airlines. :D

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:27 am
by RoySFlying
Varsity1 wrote:
If Emirates didn't carry the traffic, somebody else would. ...
Air travel is a commodity. EK's a subsidized commodity.


Which begs the question of why those other carriers didn't before the likes of EK came onto the scene. Have you not heard of the concept of stimulated demand? The airlines were previously not offering many routes due to a) restrictive bilateral agreements and, b) the belief that there was no demand. EK has shown that the introduction of a well-placed player into the market can result in additional journeys being available, increasing the total demand for travel.

Sure, air travel is a commodity, despite pretentions otherwise, but to the repeated claim of EK being subsidised, I am still waiting for the proof of these unsubstantiated allegations. Without proof, all you have is innuendo and allegations.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:56 am
by kimimm19
[email protected] wrote:
Clearly no one bothered to open the PDF. The breakdown of US jobs is on page 21.

Direct: 7518
Indirect: 28963
Induced: 67631



That's because some are still trying to wrap their head around their being two sides to a coin...

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:12 am
by fanoftristars
Isn't Khaleej Times the state-owned news organization? While I agree that EK has created jobs and economic benefit in the US, I don't think Khaleej Times would ever be considered an independent source for news. I'd take all of this with a grain of salt.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:15 am
fanoftristars wrote:
Isn't Khaleej Times the state-owned news organization? While I agree that EK has created jobs and economic benefit in the US, I don't think Khaleej Times would ever be considered an independent source for news. I'd take all of this with a grain of salt.


I think you omitted to see the PDF.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:19 am
by emiratesdriver
Tdan wrote:
If each daily widebody contributes approximately $100M in economic impact between the U.S. And the M.E., then this means EK flies 210 daily departures to the U.S.

Yeah, something doesn't smell right in the Campbell Hill report. But then again, Campbell Hill has never been known for its conservative forecasts or estimates...



As opposed to DL whom are considered the beacon and bastion of all that's fair and balanced, just like faux news....

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:22 am
by ME720
khaleej times?? They do not report! They simply publish what is handed to them from the ministry of "propaganda".. no journalism in the UAE, no reliable independent sources!
EK certainly has an impact on US jobs, no one denies.. but 100k jobs? 21billion??!

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:22 am
by fanoftristars
No I saw it - But again, who paid for this study to be done? Did they examine what the impact would be to the US economy if Emirates followed the same standards as US Airlines for labor? Again, I'm not saying that the report is untrue, but certainly skewed to paint Emirates in a good light. The inexpensive flights have helped the US consumer and business - just like inexpensive goods imported from other countries to the US have helped the US consumer buy more, but at what cost to the economy? I do agree that US Airlines have little to complain about - They are seeing some of the strongest profits on record, and certainly have benefited from a business climate that has allowed them to merge, eliminate competition, and charge higher prices domestically.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:27 am
by Andre3K
abul1988 wrote:
since we are so concerned about american jobs

delta has more airbus on order while emirates has more boeing on order.


I've been wanting to say this FOREVER.

If Delta is so "Pro American" then they should cancel the A350 orders and order some B779's or something. Oh wait that will probably never happen.

I don't feel sorry for Delta, they are pissing in Boeing's face every chance they get. I hope Emirates continues to be a thorn in their spine.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:28 am
fanoftristars wrote:
No I saw it - But again, who paid for this study to be done? Did they examine what the impact would be to the US economy if Emirates followed the same standards as US Airlines for labor? Again, I'm not saying that the report is untrue, but certainly skewed to paint Emirates in a good light. The inexpensive flights have helped the US consumer and business - just like inexpensive goods imported from other countries to the US have helped the US consumer buy more, but at what cost to the economy? I do agree that US Airlines have little to complain about - They are seeing some of the strongest profits on record, and certainly have benefited from a business climate that has allowed them to merge, eliminate competition, and charge higher prices domestically.


Who paid for US3's report? Certainly skewed to paint the MEB3 in a bad light.

:-)

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:09 am
by fanoftristars
[email protected] wrote:
fanoftristars wrote:
No I saw it - But again, who paid for this study to be done? Did they examine what the impact would be to the US economy if Emirates followed the same standards as US Airlines for labor? Again, I'm not saying that the report is untrue, but certainly skewed to paint Emirates in a good light. The inexpensive flights have helped the US consumer and business - just like inexpensive goods imported from other countries to the US have helped the US consumer buy more, but at what cost to the economy? I do agree that US Airlines have little to complain about - They are seeing some of the strongest profits on record, and certainly have benefited from a business climate that has allowed them to merge, eliminate competition, and charge higher prices domestically.


Who paid for US3's report? Certainly skewed to paint the MEB3 in a bad light.

:-)
Agreed. They've certainly done their fair share to make their situation seem dire.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:33 am
by scbriml
Varsity1 wrote:
104,000 jobs :lol:

I'd like to see the figures on that.


Well, it's all there in the report. You did read every page of it I assume? If not, I'm surprised because I suspect you can quote every word from your friends at PFOFS.

You could try refuting some of the facts and figures, but instead you just reject them without even reading them. Why am I not surprised? :scratchchin:

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:55 am
by zionite
There's no denying that EK (and ME3) have created/maintained high paying skilled jobs in US compared to job loses of low paying semi-skilled jobs that DL keeps crying about.

104,000 jobs may be inflated but even half of that at 50,000 job is excellent.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:02 am
by dtw2hyd
Not sure why we need to debate this every year.

Boeing jobs: 1000 total. Pretty bad ROI considering US Taxpayer subsidize thru EXIM and Boeing B777X development by WA.
Airport jobs 50. Chicago Mayor is on record.:

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:29 pm
by sxf24
dtw2hyd wrote:
Not sure why we need to debate this every year.

Boeing jobs: 1000 total. Pretty bad ROI considering US Taxpayer subsidize thru EXIM and Boeing B777X development by WA.
Airport jobs 50. Chicago Mayor is on record.:


The US taxpayer does not support EXIM. EXIM generates a large profit, which subsidizes US taxpayers.

The Washington State tax agreement is between the people of Washington and Boeing with no impact to other US taxpayers.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:41 pm
by Revelation
EK creates hundreds of thousands of US jobs and only employs young and hot FAs -- yep, they rock!

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:55 pm
by airbazar
Varsity1 wrote:
If Emirates didn't carry the traffic, somebody else would. More than likely they would fly Boeing's (and more of them, with the disproportionate popularity of the A380 at EK.


Nonsense. Before EK or any of the ME3 came along, airlines and especially U.S. airlines had ample opportunity to fly those routes and they never even cared. DL attempted only a measly single daily to India and before that NW was flying to India via AMS and never non-stop. U.S. airlines only cared to cherry pick the most valuable route/customer combination and would never in a million years with or without EK, start routes to destinations like BLR or MAA. The Europeans even went as far as requiring Indian passport holder to obtain a transit visa for the privilege of spending 2 hours in their pretty airports. EK saw an opportunity to tap into a vastly under-served market that no one wanted and took full advantage of it. EK exists today thanks to the incompetence and arrogance of the "incumbent" carriers and the governments that they operate under.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:04 pm
by dtw2hyd
sxf24 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Not sure why we need to debate this every year.

Boeing jobs: 1000 total. Pretty bad ROI considering US Taxpayer subsidize thru EXIM and Boeing B777X development by WA.
Airport jobs 50. Chicago Mayor is on record.:


The US taxpayer does not support EXIM. EXIM generates a large profit, which subsidizes US taxpayers.

The Washington State tax agreement is between the people of Washington and Boeing with no impact to other US taxpayers.


EXIM is profitable because of other programs and sales, not because of subsidized sales to the Middle East. B7G1 free program for a WB is not good for any program or country.
Last I checked Washington State is still part of the union, not an eight Emirate.

Had Boeing sold 10xB777X to 30 airlines, fewer discounts it needs to offer, program would have been healthy, now all eggs in one basket.

EK PR does this in every country, they claim they created 104K in the USA, 80K in EU and 90K jobs in India.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:07 pm
by oldannyboy
Varsity1 wrote:
104,000 jobs :lol:

I'd like to see the figures on that.


Ahh, Varsity... all those bad guys at the ME3, starving poor ole' lil' Delta! :stirthepot: ..Oh wait, DL is buying Airbus and Bombardier?... heck! :shock:

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:08 pm
by dtw2hyd
airbazar wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
If Emirates didn't carry the traffic, somebody else would. More than likely they would fly Boeing's (and more of them, with the disproportionate popularity of the A380 at EK.


Nonsense. Before EK or any of the ME3 came along, airlines and especially U.S. airlines had ample opportunity to fly those routes and they never even cared. DL attempted only a measly single daily to India and before that NW was flying to India via AMS and never non-stop. U.S. airlines only cared to cherry pick the most valuable route/customer combination and would never in a million years with or without EK, start routes to destinations like BLR or MAA. The Europeans even went as far as requiring Indian passport holder to obtain a transit visa for the privilege of spending 2 hours in their pretty airports. EK saw an opportunity to tap into a vastly under-served market that no one wanted and took full advantage of it. EK exists today thanks to the incompetence and arrogance of the "incumbent" carriers and the governments that they operate under.


How is that nonsense? India also signed Open Skies and purchased 50 WBs. They were forced to sell their planes because ME3 capacity dumping and price lowering practices. Had there not been ME3, both US and Indian carriers would have thrived.

DL is using their B77Ls on medium haul flights.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:10 pm
by sq421
airbazar wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
If Emirates didn't carry the traffic, somebody else would. More than likely they would fly Boeing's (and more of them, with the disproportionate popularity of the A380 at EK.


Nonsense. Before EK or any of the ME3 came along, airlines and especially U.S. airlines had ample opportunity to fly those routes and they never even cared. DL attempted only a measly single daily to India and before that NW was flying to India via AMS and never non-stop. U.S. airlines only cared to cherry pick the most valuable route/customer combination and would never in a million years with or without EK, start routes to destinations like BLR or MAA. The Europeans even went as far as requiring Indian passport holder to obtain a transit visa for the privilege of spending 2 hours in their pretty airports. EK saw an opportunity to tap into a vastly under-served market that no one wanted and took full advantage of it. EK exists today thanks to the incompetence and arrogance of the "incumbent" carriers and the governments that they operate under.


Couldn't agree more. I'm not sure about other European careers but I remember BA requiring this visa as late as 2013. That was what prompted me to fly LH (though star points were a valuable attraction).

The only reason the ME3 thrive for India - US flights is because Indian government constrained the growth of Indian careers (AI, 9W) with a worthless 5/20 rule, high taxation on fuel etc. and the US careers out of their sheer racist xenophobia never bothered to enter the market in a proper manner.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:10 pm
by Channex757
dtw2hyd wrote:
Not sure why we need to debate this every year.

Boeing jobs: 1000 total. Pretty bad ROI considering US Taxpayer subsidize thru EXIM and Boeing B777X development by WA.
Airport jobs 50. Chicago Mayor is on record.:

How many in the supply chain?

Oops...you just shot yourself in the arse by quoting selectively

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:31 pm
by dtw2hyd
Channex757 wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Not sure why we need to debate this every year.

Boeing jobs: 1000 total. Pretty bad ROI considering US Taxpayer subsidize thru EXIM and Boeing B777X development by WA.
Airport jobs 50. Chicago Mayor is on record.:

How many in the supply chain?

Oops...you just shot yourself in the arse by quoting selectively


You should count supply chain numbers under Japanese.

Oh, wait, you count all numbers for all countries. Filing different reports in different countries is where ME3 got caught by US3 gumshoes.

EK purchased 10% total B777s, don't see rest of the 90% customers claiming they created 900,000 jobs here.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:29 pm
by Flighty
Varsity1 wrote:
If Emirates didn't carry the traffic, somebody else would. More than likely they would fly Boeing's (and more of them, with the disproportionate popularity of the A380 at EK.

Air travel is a commodity. EK's a subsidized commodity.


Well stated. Getting a subsidized commodity is nice in some ways, deeply harmful in other ways.

For one thing, although 104,000 might be created, other jobs would be lost - probably more than 104,000.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:56 pm
by Tedd
Revelation wrote:
EK creates hundreds of thousands of US jobs and only employs young and hot FAs -- yep, they rock!


There is something to be said for age & experience, this can also apply to FA`s :)

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:10 pm
by atypical
The PDF is not very enlightening as to specific methodology used and the devil is truly in the details. For example the 104,000 jobs is not well defined at all. If this any person who works any hours or is this based upon based on 2080 (1 year's employment) hours, or is this a lifetime of employment. There is also no delineation between economic impact of the market and the airline itself. Whether Emirates is counting their capture of a market that exists whether Emirates is participating or not in that market is unclear.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:13 pm
by Flighty
Yeah it is only when you get older you realize how clueless young people really are. They can do ok - if well trained.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:17 pm
by manny
....according to the mouthpiece of UAE. I will take those with a grain of salt.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:26 pm
by scbriml
manny wrote:
....according to the mouthpiece of UAE. I will take those with a grain of salt.


That's fine. Do you also take the US3's utterances on the topic with the same degree of saltiness?

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:04 pm
by manny
scbriml wrote:
manny wrote:
....according to the mouthpiece of UAE. I will take those with a grain of salt.


That's fine. Do you also take the US3's utterances on the topic with the same degree of saltiness?


Nice way of deflecting away from the point. This thread is about this article which is nothing but a fluff piece for EK and is not worth the paper its printed on. Period.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:06 pm
by Jayafe
manny wrote:
Nice way of deflecting away from the point. This thread is about this article which is nothing but a fluff piece for EK and is not worth the paper its printed on. Period.


Which by comparison can be leveraged with the BS that comes from US3 (crying DL videos, cof cof) and it is indeed a valid point. Period, as you said.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:07 pm
by AirbusCanada
airbazar wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
If Emirates didn't carry the traffic, somebody else would. More than likely they would fly Boeing's (and more of them, with the disproportionate popularity of the A380 at EK.


Nonsense. Before EK or any of the ME3 came along, airlines and especially U.S. airlines had ample opportunity to fly those routes and they never even cared. DL attempted only a measly single daily to India and before that NW was flying to India via AMS and never non-stop. U.S. airlines only cared to cherry pick the most valuable route/customer combination and would never in a million years with or without EK, start routes to destinations like BLR or MAA. The Europeans even went as far as requiring Indian passport holder to obtain a transit visa for the privilege of spending 2 hours in their pretty airports. EK saw an opportunity to tap into a vastly under-served market that no one wanted and took full advantage of it. EK exists today thanks to the incompetence and arrogance of the "incumbent" carriers and the governments that they operate under.


And that is just India, one of the largest O&D market out of the U.S.
Let's not forget parts of Africa, Middle East, South East Asia & Far East that was never in the radar by the US3. According to US3 and their alliance partners, customers from those region has plenty of choices besides ME3, as long as they don't mind 3+ connections and 40~50 hours to reach their final destination.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:17 pm
by airbazar
dtw2hyd wrote:
airbazar wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
If Emirates didn't carry the traffic, somebody else would. More than likely they would fly Boeing's (and more of them, with the disproportionate popularity of the A380 at EK.


Nonsense. Before EK or any of the ME3 came along, airlines and especially U.S. airlines had ample opportunity to fly those routes and they never even cared. DL attempted only a measly single daily to India and before that NW was flying to India via AMS and never non-stop. U.S. airlines only cared to cherry pick the most valuable route/customer combination and would never in a million years with or without EK, start routes to destinations like BLR or MAA. The Europeans even went as far as requiring Indian passport holder to obtain a transit visa for the privilege of spending 2 hours in their pretty airports. EK saw an opportunity to tap into a vastly under-served market that no one wanted and took full advantage of it. EK exists today thanks to the incompetence and arrogance of the "incumbent" carriers and the governments that they operate under.


How is that nonsense? India also signed Open Skies and purchased 50 WBs. They were forced to sell their planes because ME3 capacity dumping and price lowering practices. Had there not been ME3, both US and Indian carriers would have thrived.

DL is using their B77Ls on medium haul flights.


What a load of nonsense. AI was a badly managed, unsustainable airline long before the ME3 came along.

Delta Airlines, Founded 1924
Air India, Founded 1932
Emirates, Founded 1985
Qatar Airways, Founded 1993
Ethiad Airways, Founded 2003

Delta, AI, all the other airwhiners had decades of a head start to serve the markets that the ME3 now serve and prevent any new competition and they ignored it. And to this day continue to ignore it as seen by DY's recent expansion in the TATL market.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:21 pm
by stl07
abul1988 wrote:
since we are so concerned about american jobs

delta has more airbus on order while emirates has more boeing on order.

I even head that in STL a QR order put a bunch of people back to work and brought new people in. There is a reason why Trump hasn't sounded his horn on this issue , like he has for almost every other foreign competition issue.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:00 pm
by dtw2hyd
airbazar wrote:

What a load of nonsense. AI was a badly managed, unsustainable airline long before the ME3 came along.

Delta Airlines, Founded 1924
Air India, Founded 1932
Emirates, Founded 1985
Qatar Airways, Founded 1993
Ethiad Airways, Founded 2003

Delta, AI, all the other airwhiners had decades of a head start to serve the markets that the ME3 now serve and prevent any new competition and they ignored it. And to this day continue to ignore it as seen by DY's recent expansion in the TATL market.


The discussion is about who can buy Boeing planes, not when they are founded.

Even if AI was/is badly managed, its owner placed a huge order against its own wishes, with all its financial troubles, it will take delivery of every single plane. Cannot say same for the well-done-numbers airline.

Boeing or Airbus would love someone takes delivery per contract, not someone cancels on the day of delivery.

Headstart for what, gather legacy costs and aged employees. It is not that DL (or) AI can ship out an FA to their home country if they get old, injured or pregnant.

Re: Other side of the coin -- EK contributes $21 billion, 104,000 jobs to US economy

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:10 pm
by scbriml
manny wrote:
Nice way of deflecting away from the point.


No deflection at all - just trying to understand if you're applying equal scepticism to both sides of the argument. Apparently you're not.

Jayafe wrote:
Which by comparison can be leveraged with the BS that comes from US3 (crying DL videos, cof cof) and it is indeed a valid point.


Exactly my point. Thank you.