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LAXintl
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Air India adds LAX

Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:57 pm

Per tweet from LAWA, Air India plans return to LAX with service from Delhi effective October.

No schedule supplied.

https://twitter.com/flyLAXairport/statu ... 7824690177

Talk about one long flight - CG distance is 8,014mi / 12,896 km


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TWA772LR
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:59 pm

Glad to see AI becoming more ambitious!
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2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:03 pm

This route will probably not use connections from the LA end, only India.
Good luck to AI and sucks for EK
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mercure1
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:09 pm

When did AI service LAX before. Why did they stop?
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:11 pm

Nice to see our Indian friends expanding service to America.
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:14 pm

AI flew to LAX via FRA IIRC 2004-2008. They got a frequency as high as daily, but obviously, it was loss making and pulled.

They had some rather spectacular incidents at LAX including several multi day delays with AOG aircraft, plus the 744 fire. I remember at one time we had 3 AI 744s on the ground, with of them 2 AOG
Overall in many ways, the operation was a mess and AI was basically a bottom of barrel feeder offering some of the cheapest LA-Europe fares with its shoddy reputaton to help fill planes.

Better luck now hopefully.
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BojamDelta
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:15 pm

AI v ME3!!
 
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787fan8
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:18 pm

DFW or IAH is next
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flyguy84
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:35 pm

787fan8 wrote:
DFW or IAH is next

IAH would make sense being a *A hub.
SFO
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:09 am

Any idea on aircraft?
I see twitter post has 787 picture, but can the 787 make it, or does it require 777LR?
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cledaybuck
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:19 am

mercure1 wrote:
Any idea on aircraft?
I see twitter post has 787 picture, but can the 787 make it, or does it require 777LR?
It is shorter than UA's flights to SIN with the 787, so the 787 should be ok.
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:26 am

EK will have many more important origins than AI, so I really wouldn't worry. And if you want to go anywhere aside from DEL it'd be one-stop with AI too. So...
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:34 am

Of course EK will care. AI takes away some higher paying india origin traffic which is Ai's bread and butter. Just leaves fewer premium pax to be split amounts all the one stop options including EK. The lower paying traffic origininating in the US picks EK as premoium pax are usually FF captive (and most indians in america are professions that use thee FF programs). Also LAX has a lot of Star FF pax which will be tempted to fly AI over EK for miles and status. It happened in SFO, it will happen in LAX (which doesn't have as much traffic to begin with). As far as other destinations / origins. Other than Iran, not sure EK has a big premium market out of LAX other than India. Pakistan is very small and not premium.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:01 am

I think it will have more impact on Etihad and Qatar. The increase in AI service at SFO spelled the end of Etihad service there.
 
Balaguru
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:30 am

With AI adding more service to U.S. cities, the ME3 certainly feel the pinch. Nevertheless, many of the passenger flying to and from U.S. O&D from other cities, BOM, BLR, MAA, HYD are the 4 biggest feeder cities for these flights. Not to mention, CCU, COK, PNQ among others. Without these feeders, the U.S. flights from Delhi would not work. So for these passengers, ME3 or AI, it really makes no difference, as the it is still a 1 stop flight and about the same flying time. My opinion: The hard product is the ME3s are better, the FAs are just slightly more courteous. The food in AI is better. But it is EY that has the ace up it sleeve. Westward, the U.S. Immigration and customs pre-clearance at AUH is awesome. Now, if AI get U.S. Immigration and customs pre-clearance at DEL, that would be amazing.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:44 am

cledaybuck wrote:
mercure1 wrote:
Any idea on aircraft?
I see twitter post has 787 picture, but can the 787 make it, or does it require 777LR?
It is shorter than UA's flights to SIN with the 787, so the 787 should be ok.

AI only has 788, not the longer range 789 that UA uses to SIN.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:21 am

Dallas or Houston is next.

My bet is on Houston.

http://www.indiainfoline.com/article/ne ... 091_1.html
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AI126
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:26 am

Where are the 77L's going to come form to run these routes? The existing fleet is already stretched to breaking point.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:04 am

AI126 wrote:
Where are the 77L's going to come form to run these routes? The existing fleet is already stretched to breaking point.

AI can possibly have a 2 pm departure to LAX with about a 5.30 pm arrival. The return flight can leave LAX at 8 pm arriving into Delhi at about 12.30 am.

This way the aircraft coming from Washington can continue on to LAX and the same aircraft after coming in from LAX can go to SFO as that is a 3.30 am departure. While the SFO aircraft that comes in at 4 pm can do the next day's Washington rotation. This would allow AI to do 3 weekly IAD, 3 weekly LAX and 6 weekly SFO using 3 77Ls.

When either of the aircraft is down for maintainence, AI can use the 77W for SFO/IAD. Maybe keeping this schedule in mind, AI opted for an earlier return from IAD. Also the afternoon departure time is in sync with AI's European bank.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:13 am

GC route for DEL-LAX is 8,000miles.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=del-lax&MS=wls&DU=mi

HOU is 8,400miles.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=del-hou&MS=wls&DU=mi

Will it be possible to serve these routes non-stop with the equipment Air India have?
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:01 am

With 104 additional seats, load controlled B77Ws can be used on any route. Also, higher MTOW is just a paperwork.

15xB777s. One more next year. A daily ULH RT needs 1.5 frames. If they carefully plan MX cycles, they can serve 9 stations easily.

AI won't skimp on rebooking passengers on *A or anything available. IRROPS is not an issue. 24xB788s/3xB744s with fuel stop also a possibility.
 
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Irehdna
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:11 am

I think IAD will have to go 77W before we see any AI LAX service.
 
vadodara
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:13 pm

AI certainly has advantage if people need to travel to secondary cities like Chandigarh, Jaipur and such. For other cities, perhaps not such an advantage.

Having said that, last time AI was in LAX, it did put a pretty sorry show. It seems like its service to SFO has been successful and feels bolstered to try LAX. Hope better luck this time.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:16 pm

I think this will hurt QR the most - reason being they have limited flights out of India (mostly once per day) with those leaving at the dreaded 4am departure time (which is probably the worst time ever for a flight to leave). My family would only ever consider that departure as a desperate only option or free FF redemption in J.

The best thing about AI's schedules have been the reasonable times they leave both DEL and other Indian cities as well as arrive in those cities. Granted some people don't care about timings but some do. AI's flights just chip away the available pool for all the ME3. I left out one group that has been loyal to AI through its worst times - those who just are more comfortable on an Indian carrier where the connection is in India (again some care some don't - chip chip chip).
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:19 pm

With PED ban gone and AA dropping EY/QR codeshare it is a level playing field for all state-owned carriers.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:04 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
24xB788s/3xB744s with fuel stop also a possibility.


Those 744s are pushing on 20 years. I think once GoI has their Air India One aircraft, I can see the 744s running the Saudi routes exclusively. I wonder how AI is thinking of replacing these
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:33 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
787fan8 wrote:
DFW or IAH is next

IAH would make sense being a *A hub.


I don't think that matters. UA is already giving AI an extreme cold shoulder. UA wants to funnel all India traffic through Lufthansa. AI is floating on its own in the United States.
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:54 pm

VTORD wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
24xB788s/3xB744s with fuel stop also a possibility.


Those 744s are pushing on 20 years. I think once GoI has their Air India One aircraft, I can see the 744s running the Saudi routes exclusively. I wonder how AI is thinking of replacing these


My comment was to a.netters concern about AI not having enough WBs.

It AI needs WBs on ME routes they should continue to use B744. That sand is hard on engines, Handful of CFM56 Engines needed an early overhaul, though domestic ops haywire.

Too many WBs and not enough NBs for too long(2006-16 no NB orders) created a problem. Now those A320 Classics are almost gone and NEOs coming in, it can rationalize.

If AI is privatized in a year, AI will keep all 3xB77Ws. No private operator will buy $480 Million worth planes for a customer who doesn't pay bills on time.

Adipocere wrote:
I don't think that matters. UA is already giving AI an extreme cold shoulder. UA wants to funnel all India traffic through Lufthansa. AI is floating on its own in the United States.


Exactly, No ban on anyone and no feeds to anyone. Everyone is equal. Fight it out.
Last edited by dtw2hyd on Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:55 pm

AS others have stated, DEL-IAH would be 8400 miles. I think that rivals the EK flight from DXB-AKL. It's just my opinion, but I don't think such a flight would be profitable for AI. Plus UA is not that cooperative with AI, and remember that UA has flights from EWR to DEL and BOM that it wants to protect by funneling IAH-India passengers onto.
If AI really wanted to serve IAH, or DFW with their own metal, it would probably be better to do the old-fashioned 1 stop via Europe routing, similar to what SQ does flying SIN-MAN-IAH. They could take a European destination that doesn't fill a plane ex-DEL and add a tag-on to Texas. Not sure how successful that would be.
I do wish them luck with the LAX service.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:58 pm

Adipocere wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
787fan8 wrote:
DFW or IAH is next

IAH would make sense being a *A hub.


I don't think that matters. UA is already giving AI an extreme cold shoulder. UA wants to funnel all India traffic through Lufthansa. AI is floating on its own in the United States.


The one gift UA does give AI is a reasonable "earn" in their Milage Plus FF program. In Star hubs a lot of people prefer to fly a Star carrier. India is a very long flight where you get a lot of status miles. Also UA needs to wake up. The jeannie is out of the bottle a bit in that all pax don't like flying through the EU. AI's and UA's nonstops will continue to attract pax. While UA might be giving them a cold shoulder now, I think it might turn to a luke warm one and at least allow AI to codeshare on UA's domestic flights.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:19 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
... Also UA needs to wake up. The jeannie is out of the bottle a bit in that all pax don't like flying through the EU. AI's and UA's nonstops will continue to attract pax. While UA might be giving them a cold shoulder now, I think it might turn to a luke warm one and at least allow AI to codeshare on UA's domestic flights.


Not going happen. AI-DL codeshare is more likely even with the DL-9W partnership. Otherwise, AI should start looking at B6/WN/AS...
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:27 pm

LAX is crucial for AI, but after that all 77Ls will be used up. No Texas route can be started until they receive B789. Does anybody see potential in AI operating 2x DEL-JFK with 77W? EK runs 3x nonstop A380 JFK vs 1x LAX, 1x77W ORD etc. EY runs 2x A380 JFK vs 1x 77L LAX and 1x 77W ORD. Since these airlines receive a similar passenger base, wouldn't there mean there is enough demand for AI to consider 2x DEL-JFK?
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:40 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
With 104 additional seats, load controlled B77Ws can be used on any route. Also, higher MTOW is just a paperwork.


I would imagine ORD is already operating heavily-restricted on the 77W. There are instances that even EWR had to be restricted (ie not carry luggage) so that it could make the trip.

http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/hind ... ts-luggage

Selling the 77Ls was a bad idea for AI; they should have kept them and densified them (ie remove F and downsize J) to match the capacity of a restricted 77W and operate the US routes.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:42 pm

A friendly reminder this thread is about AI service to LAX, not on what routes they may add after LAX. Thanks!
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:55 pm

Irehdna wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
With 104 additional seats, load controlled B77Ws can be used on any route. Also, higher MTOW is just a paperwork.


I would imagine ORD is already operating heavily-restricted on the 77W. There are instances that even EWR had to be restricted (ie not carry luggage) so that it could make the trip.

http://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/hind ... ts-luggage

Selling the 77Ls was a bad idea for AI; they should have kept them and densified them (ie remove F and downsize J) to match the capacity of a restricted 77W and operate the US routes.


I wouldn't say selling B77Ls was a bad idea. It was bleeding $12 Million a frame per year. Not selling to AC quickly was a bad idea. Contrary to the a.net myth, AC gave a very good FMV offer, but so called paid global consultants/assessors at AI, gave wrong/higher assessment, hence forcing AI to reject AC's offer.

Only positive thing AI/AIESL kept B77L aux tanks. Alleged rumor says EK threw their aux tanks away and stopped license payment to Boeing as a cost cutting measure.

So technically AI B77Ls are the true ULH air frames in the world, at least until A350 ULR comes online.
 
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:11 pm

OA412 wrote:
A friendly reminder this thread is about AI service to LAX, not on what routes they may add after LAX. Thanks!


Relax bro. It's fine to speculate on other routes.

Besides, it is relevant to this discussion because AI has not specified the fleet type or schedule for LAX, which is a critical open question considering the carrier's limited widebody fleet at the moment that can support continuous US growth. We know that they've made some 789 orders but still, open questions remain on how they will have enough slack in the fleet since the startup date for LAX is hardly 2.5 months away.
 
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OA412
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:09 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
OA412 wrote:
A friendly reminder this thread is about AI service to LAX, not on what routes they may add after LAX. Thanks!


Relax bro. It's fine to speculate on other routes.

Besides, it is relevant to this discussion because AI has not specified the fleet type or schedule for LAX, which is a critical open question considering the carrier's limited widebody fleet at the moment that can support continuous US growth. We know that they've made some 789 orders but still, open questions remain on how they will have enough slack in the fleet since the startup date for LAX is hardly 2.5 months away.

Whether or not it was your intention, your post comes off as patronizing. Air India added LAX; that is the thread topic. It is fine to speculate on other routes in an "Air India Future Routes" thread, which you or anyone else is free to post.

We make decisions based on member feedback. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. But it would be appreciated if our reminders are not met with "relax bro." Thank you!
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dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:33 pm

Now that the AI planned routes thread is locked, can this be renamed as part #2.

I agree, there are too may new threads being started for AI and 9W/DL.
 
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BawliBooch
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:35 pm

IrishAyes wrote:
We know that they've made some 789 orders but still,

Hain? When did THAT happen?
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readytotaxi
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:52 pm

what would be the flight time each way?
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vadodara
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:05 pm

CaliguyNYC wrote:
The best thing about AI's schedules have been the reasonable times they leave both DEL and other Indian cities as well as arrive in those cities. Granted some people don't care about timings but some do. AI's flights just chip away the available pool for all the ME3. I left out one group that has been loyal to AI through its worst times - those who just are more comfortable on an Indian carrier where the connection is in India (again some care some don't - chip chip chip).


Fair point! Both European and to a certain extend ME3 had India flights to optimize their hubs, not the passengers.

AI, even if optimizing their hub op's, times it right from passenger perspective, it may even be able to charge a premium for this as well as shorter connectivity! Some may care, some may not but more choices are always great!
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:06 pm

OA412 wrote:
IrishAyes wrote:
OA412 wrote:
A friendly reminder this thread is about AI service to LAX, not on what routes they may add after LAX. Thanks!


Relax bro. It's fine to speculate on other routes.

Besides, it is relevant to this discussion because AI has not specified the fleet type or schedule for LAX, which is a critical open question considering the carrier's limited widebody fleet at the moment that can support continuous US growth. We know that they've made some 789 orders but still, open questions remain on how they will have enough slack in the fleet since the startup date for LAX is hardly 2.5 months away.

Whether or not it was your intention, your post comes off as patronizing. Air India added LAX; that is the thread topic. It is fine to speculate on other routes in an "Air India Future Routes" thread, which you or anyone else is free to post.

We make decisions based on member feedback. Sometimes we're right, sometimes we're wrong. But it would be appreciated if our reminders are not met with "relax bro." Thank you!


I think there may be a misunderstanding here, let me clarify.

There is little, if any, commercial detail included in the press release that ANET people want to know about. It's great that LAWA has stated that AI will commence service, but it is imperative to remember that AI has mentioned LAX as part of an expansion strategy this year, which specified DFW or IAH as additional routes that would be included within those plans. These have all been VERY recent developments within the past two months. So starting a whole new thread on Air India future routes is extraneous. Those who have followed this closely (most people on the thread) are keenly aware that the number of available aircraft on hand plays a pivotal role in determining how AI will roll-out these routes. Without any information included in the OP, it is especially relevant to weigh-in the additional routes to gain some insights into how the fleet will flex.

Also, "patronizing" is a bit extreme. That wasn't the intent ever, so no need to get overly emotional. Sorry if I offended you or anyone else.
 
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IrishAyes
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:08 pm

BawliBooch wrote:
IrishAyes wrote:
We know that they've made some 789 orders but still,

Hain? When did THAT happen?


Ah. There was an approval to lease 7 of the 789s. I guess I should substantiate by saying that there hasn't been any newer developments on whether the plans were implemented yet....

viewtopic.php?t=1359537
 
VTORD
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:52 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Now that the AI planned routes thread is locked, can this be renamed as part #2.

I agree, there are too may new threads being started for AI and 9W/DL.


+1. Can we do that.....? As IrishAyes said, there isn't really much information about LAX route to discuss only that one here.
 
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mercure1
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:57 pm

VTORD wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Now that the AI planned routes thread is locked, can this be renamed as part #2.

I agree, there are too may new threads being started for AI and 9W/DL.


+1. Can we do that.....? As IrishAyes said, there isn't really much information about LAX route to discuss only that one here.


Then don't discuss it.

If you don't wish to comment about AI to LAX, but have the desire to make another commentary, feel free to start the appropriate new thread.
mercure f-wtcc
 
dtw2hyd
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:49 pm

mercure1 wrote:
VTORD wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
Now that the AI planned routes thread is locked, can this be renamed as part #2.

I agree, there are too may new threads being started for AI and 9W/DL.


+1. Can we do that.....? As IrishAyes said, there isn't really much information about LAX route to discuss only that one here.


Then don't discuss it.

If you don't wish to comment about AI to LAX, but have the desire to make another commentary, feel free to start the appropriate new thread.


Come on man. With so many threads and no notification deletions, I feel I am typing the same thing time and again.
 
xdlx
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:31 pm

This is another Polar Route like JFK, EWR, ORD....
 
Sightseer
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:59 pm

Nice to see continued growth in the US-India nonstop market. Hopefully other carriers will get in on the action too. (*Cough, DL/9W*) And I personally think it's reasonable to discuss AI's other long-haul plans in conjunction with this development.

Irehdna wrote:
dtw2hyd wrote:
With 104 additional seats, load controlled B77Ws can be used on any route. Also, higher MTOW is just a paperwork.


I would imagine ORD is already operating heavily-restricted on the 77W. There are instances that even EWR had to be restricted (ie not carry luggage) so that it could make the trip.


I have read here that India flights are often heavy on baggage. That said, DEL-ORD is 4 miles shorter than LAX-SYD, which AA and VA have both flown with 77Ws. Are there any other factors that make India flights trickier than other ULH flights? I know the article you cited mentioned winds as the reason for leaving all those bags from that EWR flight.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:12 pm

dtw2hyd wrote:
Now that the AI planned routes thread is locked, can this be renamed as part #2.

I agree, there are too may new threads being started for AI and 9W/DL.


Pointed out to mods repeatedly, almost like a PR campaign by over enthusiastic teens going on.

This thread can be renamed AI planned US routes.
 
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seabosdca
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Re: Air India adds LAX

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:23 pm

AI will use 77W on IAD, and move the 77Ls to this route and SFO. A restricted 77W can fly the route in a pinch if one of the 77Ls is down.

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