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2Holer4Longhaul
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Last A340 operator

Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:45 pm

Who do you think will be the last user of the A340?
I think SAA, bceause of the hot-and-high conditions in Jo'Burg
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BojamDelta
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Re: Last A340 operator

Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:27 pm

Last of the current airlines operating them?
LH or SAA.
Could we see a new Operator picking some up from current Airlines and using them for a while?
 
cedarjet
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:00 am

There could be second hand operators in the future, after all they're not THAT inefficient, four engines off the 737 makes the A340 basically two 737s flying in close formation — Qatar Airways elected to keep their A340-600s flying in a high density 400 seat configuration so it can be done.
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Andre3K
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:40 am

cedarjet wrote:
Qatar Airways elected to keep their A340-600s flying in a high density 400 seat configuration so it can be done.


With or without government funding?
 
A388
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:48 am

Don't forget Surinam Airways.

A388
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:23 am

In terms of airlines and not VIP frames? I think that it will be charter operator Hi Fly, which is bringing in A340-300s from whoever is retiring them with significant time left on them. (Are they leasing their planes on a power by the hour basis?)

As for each variant now:
1. -200: Leisure Air (leasing its A342s from EgyptAir)
2. -300: Hi Fly
3. -500: Hi Fly (EY and EK are retiring their frames now)
4. -600: South African Airways (I could see them leasing in Iberia's A346s down the line for routes where a 242t A333 will not do).
 
910A
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:59 am

For the -600 perhaps Mahan of Iran.
 
wedgetail737
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:03 am

How about Air Tahiti Nui?
 
guillelds
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:04 am

Air France?
 
910A
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:06 am

wedgetail737 wrote:
How about Air Tahiti Nui?

TN starts getting their four 789's in 2019. I have a trip planned for April 2019 to Tahiti, hopefully the 340's will still be in service.
 
2Holer4Longhaul
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:21 am

To clarify, I did mean the last airline flying them in revenue service
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edgaren
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:54 am

Avior Airlines in Venezuela is currently operating the A340-300, only one aircraft to be more exact, with 3 more former Air China waiting to be fitted and certified to fly. I personally cant see a bright future to the a340 in Venezuela, with current political and economic unrest in the country. Rumor has it the airline isnt very happy with the economics and performance of the aircraft.
 
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American 767
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:28 am

guillelds wrote:
Air France?


Air France is now phasing them out, and they don't any 600s.

It is still too early to tell who will be the last A340 operator. 20 years ago, in the 90s when there were still a lot of DC-10s in service, nobody knew that Biman Bangladesh would eventually be the last operator of the type in passenger service. And nobody knew KLM would be the last operator of the MD-11 in passenger service.
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Channex757
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:30 am

Mahan Air is my bet, if the Trump administration moves to reintroduce sanctions against Iran and aircraft sales dry up. They already have specific sanctions targeting them so any replacements will be hard to source anyway.
 
Noshow
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:32 am

The german air force has a converted VIP one (second hand, former LH). That might fly for some time to come.
 
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persiangulf93
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:56 am

Def. Mahan Air...
 
opticalilyushin
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:28 am

Definitely Mahan. I'd like to see Avior do well, but given the economic issues in Venezuela I can't see them flying much further than Miami. I hope I'm wrong though, great airline to fly with :)
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:51 am

BojamDelta wrote:
Last of the current airlines operating them?
LH or SAA.
Could we see a new Operator picking some up from current Airlines and using them for a while?

As LH is replacing their A346s with A359s, I don't think we can see too many LH A340s flying around after 2020. Personally don't think A343s will be there for too long.
 
kimimm19
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:06 am

I think Swiss is in the running. They are still keeping 5 of their A340s and Lufthansa hasn't mentioned that any of the A350 orders are for Swiss as of yet.
 
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cougar15
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:27 am

Edelweiss, they are just taking on the swiss examples & refurbishing them, I expect they will be with them for a while
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KarelXWB
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:32 am

Difficult to predict. We will be seeing A340s in the sky for at least another 20 years or so, just as some A300s/A310s keep flying.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
lowbank
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:10 am

Do any of you kind people have a breakdown of how many -600 's are still in service???
I loved the 747 thread, that was true dedication that one
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Roadcruiser1
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:13 am

People are forgetting Air Belgium. They are using a dead airline name, but they are plan on launching flights in December 2017 using Airbus A-340-300 planes. They are planning to fly out of Brussels Airport to destinations in Asia. Their logo along with their planes with look like this.

Image
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KarelXWB
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:24 am

lowbank wrote:
Do any of you kind people have a breakdown of how many -600 's are still in service???


As far as I can see:

- Lufthansa: 21
- Iberia: 17
- SAA: 9
- Mahan Air: 7
- Virgin Atlantic: 7
- Etihad Airways: 5
- Qatar Airways: 4
- Azerbaijan: 1
- Sky Prime Aviation: 1
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
T54A
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:45 am

SAA doesn't have any wide bodies on order, so I can't see them been replaced in the near future.
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jfk777
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:46 am

Lots depends on price of fuel, A340 look good as long as oil is at current levels. IF oil goes up a lot the A340 is Doomed. Look for many to get parked.
 
rbrunner
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:56 am

Nobody has mentioned TAP yet...
 
DALCE
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:00 pm

My guess would be Mahan or Edelweiss.
The Edelweiss frames have plenty of life in them left, and some of the (ex-) LX frames are owned and paid for, so can provide cheap spares in the longer run.
It's still not a bad plane and you can still make money with them.

Surinam is already looking for replacement for their sole 343, but it's difficult for them since they cannot operate twin engined planes under Etops regulations.
But that frame will anyway be gone in few years time.
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PA12
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:13 pm

Aerolíneas Argentinas still operates 3 or 4.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:21 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
lowbank wrote:
Do any of you kind people have a breakdown of how many -600 's are still in service???


As far as I can see:

- Lufthansa: 21
- Iberia: 17
- SAA: 9
- Mahan Air: 7
- Virgin Atlantic: 7
- Etihad Airways: 5
- Qatar Airways: 4
- Azerbaijan: 1
- Sky Prime Aviation: 1


Azerbaijan Airlines has 3: one A346 (VIP) and two A345s (pax)---all leased from the same lessor, AJ Walter. Sky Prime doesn't really count since that is a VIP example and has always been one (it was originally for Lufthansa, but it was sold to Brunei before it flew a fare paying passenger).
 
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Polot
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:43 pm

rbrunner wrote:
Nobody has mentioned TAP yet...

Probably because no one is expecting them to be the last operator. TAP only has 4 A343s that are all over 20 years old. We will like be saying our goodbyes to them when the A339s are rolling into their fleet.
 
airbazar
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:39 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Mahan Air is my bet, if the Trump administration moves to reintroduce sanctions against Iran and aircraft sales dry up. They already have specific sanctions targeting them so any replacements will be hard to source anyway.

I agree that Mahan Air will likely be the last one, with or without sancions. But there's very little political motivation in Europe to support Trump backed sanctions against Iran so if the pres does re-instate the ban, all new orders will just go to Airbus. Mahan had no problem acquiring A346's DURING the embargo, so they sure won't have a problem acquiring spare parts if the EU doesn't reinstate the embargo.

Most seem to already have a plan in place. SAA is slowly replacing them with A330's. LH is slowly replacing them with A350s. IB will replace them with a combination A330/A350. VS is replacing them with 789/A3510. TAP will replace them with A339's. Hifly has just ordered 2 A330's. The EY and QR ones, surely must be on the way out soon. As for all the others with just a small number, with so many A330's hitting the market soon, I can't imagine any of the remaining A340 operators continuing to operate A340's instead of picking up cheap, used A330's.

Edelweiss is intriguing to me. Their A340s are relatively young but for the right price I'm sure the LH Group would replace them too.
 
stgs1988
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:18 pm

Don't forget about the small Airbus A340-300 fleet by Scandinavian Airlines. Airbus A350 is in the process of being phased in soon.
 
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zeke
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Re: Last A340 operatory

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:29 pm

jfk777 wrote:
Lots depends on price of fuel, A340 look good as long as oil is at current levels. IF oil goes up a lot the A340 is Doomed. Look for many to get parked.


Why is the A340 doomed if the oil price goes up ? The A340-300 has a very comparable fuel burn to a 777-200ER, at a lower monthly lease rate.

There is already significant discount in the lease rates for them to make it viable. They will be particularly suited to airlines that have low utilisation. As more A340s have been scrapped in recent times, the parts and engine supply would be generous.
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lightsaber
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:53 pm

According to Airfleets, 206 A340s are still operating or just over half of the total built. It is a long time away from the last operator. Now if you want to talk last L1011 operator... there is a discussion.

As others have noted, it will be some 2nd hand operator. Some number of years from now in low utilization duty where the variable costs do not matter as much as the fixed costs. The A340-300 will have the advantage as the CFM-56 is an industry in its own right and will remain economical to support for a long time (a la JT8D).

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Brixerl
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:17 pm

lightsaber wrote:
The A340-300 will have the advantage as the CFM-56 is an industry in its own right and will remain economical to support for a long time (a la JT8D).

Lightsaber


In 1979 United Airlines upgraded 30 DC-8-61 aircraft with CFM-56. Might it be technically possible to do something similar and upgrade those A340s with the new LEAP? And improve efficiency in a similar manner as between 320CEO/NEO or 737NG/MAX? And financially feasable?
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Dutchy
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:23 pm

Brixerl wrote:
lightsaber wrote:
The A340-300 will have the advantage as the CFM-56 is an industry in its own right and will remain economical to support for a long time (a la JT8D).

Lightsaber


In 1979 United Airlines upgraded 30 DC-8-61 aircraft with CFM-56. Might it be technically possible to do something similar and upgrade those A340s with the new LEAP? And improve efficiency in a similar manner as between 320CEO/NEO or 737NG/MAX? And financially feasable?


Technically yes, financially no. Should be quite expensive to do a low series.
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readytotaxi
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:40 pm

Think that SAA while be flying them till they drop, they have no money to buy/lease anything else

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QF1607
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:09 pm

wedgetail737 wrote:
How about Air Tahiti Nui?


Air Tahiti Nui will replace its fleet of 5 A340's by 2019 with the arrival of 4 Boeing 787-9. which is a shame because i think that ATN has one of the most beautiful liveries and it suits the A340 perfectly...
 
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Channex757
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:14 pm

airbazar wrote:
Channex757 wrote:
Mahan Air is my bet, if the Trump administration moves to reintroduce sanctions against Iran and aircraft sales dry up. They already have specific sanctions targeting them so any replacements will be hard to source anyway.

I agree that Mahan Air will likely be the last one, with or without sancions. But there's very little political motivation in Europe to support Trump backed sanctions against Iran so if the pres does re-instate the ban, all new orders will just go to Airbus. Mahan had no problem acquiring A346's DURING the embargo, so they sure won't have a problem acquiring spare parts if the EU doesn't reinstate the embargo.

< snipped >

Mahan acquired those aircraft under provisions that Iran could import secondhand aircraft over a certain age. Without looking it up I think it's ten years old or so.

The problem here is that Mahan has specific sanctions against it thanks to alleged movement of armaments. That is going to make acquiring anything new problematic. If Iran as a whole then gets sanctions reintroduced, that's a second barrier to them buying new. There are a lot of US-built parts in an Airbus too and export licences would just be refused. That puts Mahan back into the secondhand market at the very best, and as happened with the 747-400 even that is problematic.

They will probably end up hanging on to the A343 as long as possible, just like they are heading towards being the last operator of the A310 after the TS decision to retire theirs and PIA parking theirs up.
 
dcajet
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:42 pm

edgaren wrote:
Avior Airlines in Venezuela is currently operating the A340-300, only one aircraft to be more exact, with 3 more former Air China waiting to be fitted and certified to fly. I personally cant see a bright future to the a340 in Venezuela, with current political and economic unrest in the country. Rumor has it the airline isnt very happy with the economics and performance of the aircraft.


No kidding... they are using a plane designed for long haul flying to fly a short haul sector to Miami and that is it. What were they expecting? The 340 shines on sectors over 10 hours, ideally.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
dcajet
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:45 pm

PA12 wrote:
Aerolíneas Argentinas still operates 3 or 4.


5 actually.

LV-CSD
LV-CSF
LV-CSX
LV-FPU
LV-FPV

SX is on its way out next month; SD and SF by year's end and then PU and PV in early 2019.
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tavong
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:59 pm

Deleted
Just put me on any modern airliner and i will be happy, give me more star alliance miles and i will be a lot happier.
 
evanb
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:26 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
4. -600: South African Airways (I could see them leasing in Iberia's A346s down the line for routes where a 242t A333 will not do).


Why would SAA lease Iberia's A346s when they already have nine of their own, all around a similar age to Iberia's?

There is talk of SAA downsizing the A340 fleet, none of adding more.
 
dergay
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 6:37 pm

2Holer4Longhaul wrote:
Who do you think will be the last user of the A340?
I think SAA, bceause of the hot-and-high conditions in Jo'Burg


Should this not be "Who do you think will be the last of the current users of the A340"
Flown on A300,A310,A318,A319,A320,A321,A330,B707,B720,B727,B737,B747,B757,B767,L382,L1011,C5,DC-3,DC8,
 
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tavong
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:24 pm

LH has a bunch of A340-300s and -600 where they are flying at this time? They used to send the -600 to BOG but seems thy switched it to a -300 i was puzzled to see this change.

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airbazar
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Re: Last A340 operatory

Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:01 pm

zeke wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Lots depends on price of fuel, A340 look good as long as oil is at current levels. IF oil goes up a lot the A340 is Doomed. Look for many to get parked.


Why is the A340 doomed if the oil price goes up ? The A340-300 has a very comparable fuel burn to a 777-200ER, at a lower monthly lease rate.


They're both doomed IMO, with or without an increase in fuel prices. In the next 10 years there will be a gazilion A333's hitting the used market as they get replaced by newer generation airplanes.

readytotaxi wrote:
Think that SAA while be flying them till they drop, they have no money to buy/lease anything else

And yet they are operating a fleet of brand new A330s, 2 of them just delivered in the last couple of months. They're a government owned airline. There's always money for new planes.
 
evanb
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Re: Last A340 operatory

Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:20 pm

airbazar wrote:
zeke wrote:
jfk777 wrote:
Lots depends on price of fuel, A340 look good as long as oil is at current levels. IF oil goes up a lot the A340 is Doomed. Look for many to get parked.


Why is the A340 doomed if the oil price goes up ? The A340-300 has a very comparable fuel burn to a 777-200ER, at a lower monthly lease rate.


They're both doomed IMO, with or without an increase in fuel prices. In the next 10 years there will be a gazilion A333's hitting the used market as they get replaced by newer generation airplanes.


Quite right. The last B777-200ER was delivered nearly 4 years ago and there are none on order.

readytotaxi wrote:
Think that SAA while be flying them till they drop, they have no money to buy/lease anything else

And yet they are operating a fleet of brand new A330s, 2 of them just delivered in the last couple of months. They're a government owned airline. There's always money for new planes.[/quote]

They're all on operating leases from Airbus.
 
LY777
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:29 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
lowbank wrote:
Do any of you kind people have a breakdown of how many -600 's are still in service???


As far as I can see:

- Lufthansa: 21
- Iberia: 17
- SAA: 9
- Mahan Air: 7
- Virgin Atlantic: 7
- Etihad Airways: 5
- Qatar Airways: 4
- Azerbaijan: 1
- Sky Prime Aviation: 1


What about -300 and -500 variants?
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Arctage
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Re: Last A340 operator

Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:36 pm

Huh, nice question, well, my bet is SAS, they have a main focus for the A343, with a nice refurbish for the 7 lucky aircraft, along with a upgrade to WiFi, so I don't think they'll retire them any time soon, um, what else?
There are also plenty of A343s in service with Lufthansa's regional partner, Lufthansa CityLine so maybe there is a chance there.
Another good bet is likely Syrian Air, although maybe not flying, they will likely not have a option to get more aircraft until a end to the Syrian Civil War, there for will likely mean quite some time/

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