Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2175
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:46 am

The most interesting bit here is DEN. They are dropping frequencies on some routes, but more then making up for it with more routes. 21 new destinations from Denver, which puts it behind UA in terms of destinations from DEN, but ahead of WN. As F9 grows, I think the percentage of DEN based flying will decrease, but they are clearly stealing a page from WN's current DEN strategy.

It's going to be interesting to see how their strategy continues to go. Three carriers growing at DEN is nothing but good for the airport.
 
User avatar
mke717spotter
Posts: 2168
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 am

Re: Frontier To Announce 8 New Routes From MIA

Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:59 am

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
MKE officials want a MIA nonstop so that makes sense as a certain one of the eight.


http://www.jsonline.com/story/money/201 ... 489081001/

"(Miami has) been something that has been missing from the Milwaukee route map for decades," said Jay Sorensen, an airline industry consultant who runs IdeaWorksCompany in Shorewood. "Miami is the gateway to South America. You'd be able to fly any number of international carriers out of Miami."

If they're aiming for connections to South America, I think AA would have been a better option. Maybe they'll still jump in at some point.
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1622
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:20 am

F9 will now be serving PVD and ISP. This in turn means they have essentially told BDL to go you know what themselves.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
renoair
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:15 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:35 am

lakeeffect wrote:
AVLAirlineFreq wrote:
lakeeffect wrote:
I wonder if airports like ABQ, RNO, ONT, and PSP will be getting F9 service tomorrow too? I noticed these listed as Frontier destinations on their website this morning.


On the airports' websites or F9's website?


These were listed on F9's destination page earlier this morning (along with OKC, BUF, and GRR). They've now been removed and only their current destinations are showing.

This leads me to believe that there will probably be a lot of new airports with F9 service being announced tomorrow. ONT, PSP, and RNO are certainly unexpected if they are indeed announced.


RNO marketing guy said this evening that Frontier coming back after long absence; flights starting right before Thanksgiving.
 
PMUA787
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:35 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:52 am

From what I have heard the ELP-DEN service will not start until sometime next March almost 8 months away. It would not surprise me if the advance bookings don't come up to expectations they may never start the service or the flights will be short lived. Time will tell on how many of these new routes will survive or not.
 
phluser
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:26 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
F9 will now be serving PVD and ISP. This in turn means they have essentially told BDL to go you know what themselves.


Maybe it would have done BDL but Spirit just recently added service there. Medium markets like PIT and BDL that have big enough Southwest and growing Spirit leaves F9 less growth opportunity. I believe F9 and NK co-exist well in CVG and CLE, while Southwest is still relatively small there for those market sizes.
 
seatback
Posts: 616
Joined: Thu Mar 28, 2002 3:00 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:31 pm

Is there a comprehensive list of the routes being CUT?
 
User avatar
Cvgspotter15
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat May 13, 2017 6:14 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:40 pm

phluser wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
F9 will now be serving PVD and ISP. This in turn means they have essentially told BDL to go you know what themselves.


Maybe it would have done BDL but Spirit just recently added service there. Medium markets like PIT and BDL that have big enough Southwest and growing Spirit leaves F9 less growth opportunity. I believe F9 and NK co-exist well in CVG and CLE, while Southwest is still relatively small there for those market sizes.


NK doesn't go to cvg
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3686
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:46 pm

seatback wrote:
Is there a comprehensive list of the routes being CUT?


The only ones I know are PHX-BNA and PHX-STL. I think I saw somewhere mentioned CMH-LAS?
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1948
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:13 pm

seatback wrote:
Is there a comprehensive list of the routes being CUT?


PIT-DEN/LAS are gone as well. Who knows if they will return seasonally but for now all that will be left at PIT is 3x weekly MCO.
FLYi
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1143
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:31 pm

whatusaid wrote:
dc10lover wrote:
For FAT (Fresno, California) fans, looks like new service to your area.



Again? Third try. Why do I suspect they'll enter in the spring and exit in the Fall? Last time, a 93% LF with very limited connections didn't work.

Maybe UA will finally upgrade DEN and we'll actually come out on top?


I certainly hope they fly at least 5X per week, every week this time and time the flights so as to offer more connections, with a RON likely being the best for that. Maybe they'll even have an afternoon flight on Sundays/Fridays? I'm also hoping to see a LAS turn a few times per week in the future if things go well (could even do something like have DEN-FAT on Friday afternoon and night, FAT-LAS Friday afternoon and Saturday morning, LAS-FAT Sunday afternoon and evening, FAT-DEN Sunday afternoon and Monday morning, plus a RON from DEN that arrives Saturday early evening and departs Sunday morning), it would be nice to have an alternative to G4.
Last edited by flyfresno on Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
phluser
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:38 pm

Cvgspotter15 wrote:
phluser wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
F9 will now be serving PVD and ISP. This in turn means they have essentially told BDL to go you know what themselves.


Maybe it would have done BDL but Spirit just recently added service there. Medium markets like PIT and BDL that have big enough Southwest and growing Spirit leaves F9 less growth opportunity. I believe F9 and NK co-exist well in CVG and CLE, while Southwest is still relatively small there for those market sizes.


NK doesn't go to cvg


Right. Replace NK with G4, the other ULCC.
 
phluser
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:51 pm

flyPIT wrote:
seatback wrote:
Is there a comprehensive list of the routes being CUT?


PIT-DEN/LAS are gone as well. Who knows if they will return seasonally but for now all that will be left at PIT is 3x weekly MCO.


That is light, but F9 is also light in DFW and a few other large markets. With the cut of PHL-RDU, I infer F9 will probably not get into any more short-hauls out of PHL where drive under 7 hours can be done, likely dashing hope of a PHL-PIT.
Last edited by phluser on Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:54 pm

phluser wrote:
Cvgspotter15 wrote:
phluser wrote:

Maybe it would have done BDL but Spirit just recently added service there. Medium markets like PIT and BDL that have big enough Southwest and growing Spirit leaves F9 less growth opportunity. I believe F9 and NK co-exist well in CVG and CLE, while Southwest is still relatively small there for those market sizes.


NK doesn't go to cvg


Right. Replace NK with G4, the other ULCC.


WN at CLE is way larger the CVG. CLE is not STL sized but it's not two destinations either. Not slamming CVG either, I know WN will grow that station out but F9 made these additions knowing how the current market stands.

And like cvgspotter said, NK has good presence at both CLE and CAK. CLE even has B6 to BOS/FLL.

I think F9 is trying to read tea leaves with these routes.

In fact the interesting thing about CLE is that about the only domestic carrier left to serve the region is AS. And everyone else has decent sized skin in the game except for B6.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4183
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:11 pm

phluser wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
seatback wrote:
Is there a comprehensive list of the routes being CUT?


PIT-DEN/LAS are gone as well. Who knows if they will return seasonally but for now all that will be left at PIT is 3x weekly MCO.


That is light, but F9 is also light in DFW and a few other large markets. With the cut of PHL-RDU, I infer F9 will probably not get into any more short-hauls out of PHL where drive under 7 hours can be done, likely dashing hope of a PHL-PIT. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if it attempted PIT-PVD maybe one day, as it's longer and has no direct carrier.

PHL-RDU is a bit crowded with ~7x AA, ~4x DL, and 1x F9. And AA primarily flies 190's. Plus as pointed out, it's certainly driveable.

I believe the normal summer routes from PHL were cut: MKE, MCI, CVG, AUS, CVG, IAH, BNA
 
phluser
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:24 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
WN at CLE is way larger the CVG. .


True, but WN has a larger presence at PIT than at CLE. For example, WN has up to 4 to 5x daily (maybe) on PIT-MCO. Then Spirit and Allegiant started covering the very low fare segment in PIT, likely leaving F9 little growth room there, so it's understandable it's not focusing more at PIT. However, it leaves very light coverage into markets like PIT, that I wonder if it makes enough profit on the limited flights, to justify the station at such a low presence.
 
krsw757
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 12:22 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:56 pm

I'm wondering if they will keep flying at both Jacksonville and St. Augustine. Also, anyone know if they're going to keep PGD around since they are adding more flight out of RSW?
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1948
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:09 pm

phluser wrote:
True, but WN has a larger presence at PIT than at CLE. For example, WN has up to 4 to 5x daily (maybe) on PIT-MCO. Then Spirit and Allegiant started covering the very low fare segment in PIT, likely leaving F9 little growth room there, so it's understandable it's not focusing more at PIT.

Little room for growth there (PIT-MCO) as you said considering all the incumbants, yet the sole F9 route remaining at PIT is.... PIT-MCO. Go figure.

phluser wrote:
However, it leaves very light coverage into markets like PIT, that I wonder if it makes enough profit on the limited flights, to justify the station at such a low presence.

I imagine F9 will pull out of PIT (for the third time) or need to grow at some point. Hopefully DEN and LAS will be back.
FLYi
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:36 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
phluser wrote:
Cvgspotter15 wrote:

NK doesn't go to cvg


Right. Replace NK with G4, the other ULCC.


WN at CLE is way larger the CVG. CLE is not STL sized but it's not two destinations either. Not slamming CVG either, I know WN will grow that station out but F9 made these additions knowing how the current market stands.

And like cvgspotter said, NK has good presence at both CLE and CAK. CLE even has B6 to BOS/FLL.

I think F9 is trying to read tea leaves with these routes.

In fact the interesting thing about CLE is that about the only domestic carrier left to serve the region is AS. And everyone else has decent sized skin in the game except for B6.



CLE is a large enough WN station for them to mess with UA on the MKE-CLE route. They are a long way off at CVG from targeting certain DL leftover routes from the hub days. B6 slowly went into midwestern cities with the BOS/FLL offerings very much under the radar. I don't know if F9's CVG buildup would stop B6 from entering that market - maybe it just isn't large enough.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 535
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:37 pm

phluser wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
WN at CLE is way larger the CVG. .


True, but WN has a larger presence at PIT than at CLE. For example, WN has up to 4 to 5x daily (maybe) on PIT-MCO. Then Spirit and Allegiant started covering the very low fare segment in PIT, likely leaving F9 little growth room there, so it's understandable it's not focusing more at PIT. However, it leaves very light coverage into markets like PIT, that I wonder if it makes enough profit on the limited flights, to justify the station at such a low presence.


It is fascinating with the PIT buildup by NK that they have left in place (For now) the LBE-MCO/FLL service. Maybe it compliments PIT service or has its own niche?
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:44 pm

flyPIT wrote:
phluser wrote:
True, but WN has a larger presence at PIT than at CLE. For example, WN has up to 4 to 5x daily (maybe) on PIT-MCO. Then Spirit and Allegiant started covering the very low fare segment in PIT, likely leaving F9 little growth room there, so it's understandable it's not focusing more at PIT.

Little room for growth there (PIT-MCO) as you said considering all the incumbants, yet the sole F9 route remaining at PIT is.... PIT-MCO. Go figure.

phluser wrote:
However, it leaves very light coverage into markets like PIT, that I wonder if it makes enough profit on the limited flights, to justify the station at such a low presence.

I imagine F9 will pull out of PIT (for the third time) or need to grow at some point. Hopefully DEN and LAS will be back.


I wondered if they were going to bail on CMH for the third time when I saw DEN and LAS were being reduced until I saw the AUS and TPA additions.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 955
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:46 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
phluser wrote:

Right. Replace NK with G4, the other ULCC.


WN at CLE is way larger the CVG. CLE is not STL sized but it's not two destinations either. Not slamming CVG either, I know WN will grow that station out but F9 made these additions knowing how the current market stands.

And like cvgspotter said, NK has good presence at both CLE and CAK. CLE even has B6 to BOS/FLL.

I think F9 is trying to read tea leaves with these routes.

In fact the interesting thing about CLE is that about the only domestic carrier left to serve the region is AS. And everyone else has decent sized skin in the game except for B6.



CLE is a large enough WN station for them to mess with UA on the MKE-CLE route. They are a long way off at CVG from targeting certain DL leftover routes from the hub days. B6 slowly went into midwestern cities with the BOS/FLL offerings very much under the radar. I don't know if F9's CVG buildup would stop B6 from entering that market - maybe it just isn't large enough.


Ha..you beat me to it about MKE. Most a.netters got it wrong when WN closed DAY and CAK. Many thought the focus would be on CVG but instead it seems like WN is trying grow CLE. I think CLE is heading towards a PIT/CMH sized station. We'll see.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:02 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
phluser wrote:

Right. Replace NK with G4, the other ULCC.


WN at CLE is way larger the CVG. CLE is not STL sized but it's not two destinations either. Not slamming CVG either, I know WN will grow that station out but F9 made these additions knowing how the current market stands.

And like cvgspotter said, NK has good presence at both CLE and CAK. CLE even has B6 to BOS/FLL.

I think F9 is trying to read tea leaves with these routes.

In fact the interesting thing about CLE is that about the only domestic carrier left to serve the region is AS. And everyone else has decent sized skin in the game except for B6.



CLE is a large enough WN station for them to mess with UA on the MKE-CLE route. They are a long way off at CVG from targeting certain DL leftover routes from the hub days. B6 slowly went into midwestern cities with the BOS/FLL offerings very much under the radar. I don't know if F9's CVG buildup would stop B6 from entering that market - maybe it just isn't large enough.

I think DL is the main reason JetBlue has not and will not come to CVG. Delta has the largest share of seats on CVG-FLL/BOS/JFK/MCO, so there really is nothing B6 would give to CVG besides excess capacity. I would love B6 to force out F9/G4 on these routes, but I am not sure B6 could get the business market away from DL.
 
cvgComair
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:48 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:11 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

WN at CLE is way larger the CVG. CLE is not STL sized but it's not two destinations either. Not slamming CVG either, I know WN will grow that station out but F9 made these additions knowing how the current market stands.

And like cvgspotter said, NK has good presence at both CLE and CAK. CLE even has B6 to BOS/FLL.

I think F9 is trying to read tea leaves with these routes.

In fact the interesting thing about CLE is that about the only domestic carrier left to serve the region is AS. And everyone else has decent sized skin in the game except for B6.



CLE is a large enough WN station for them to mess with UA on the MKE-CLE route. They are a long way off at CVG from targeting certain DL leftover routes from the hub days. B6 slowly went into midwestern cities with the BOS/FLL offerings very much under the radar. I don't know if F9's CVG buildup would stop B6 from entering that market - maybe it just isn't large enough.


Ha..you beat me to it about MKE. Most a.netters got it wrong when WN closed DAY and CAK. Many thought the focus would be on CVG but instead it seems like WN is trying grow CLE. I think CLE is heading towards a PIT/CMH sized station. We'll see.

I think WN’s operation at CVG is going to stay pretty small for the forseable future, DL is just too entrenched in Cincinnati (not that I am complaining, no other carrier is giving CVG 35 nonstop destinations) I would not be surprised to not ever see a Florida flight on WN.
 
DeltaRules
Posts: 5238
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2001 11:57 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:13 pm

If anyone wonders where the airplanes are coming from, here's a map of what F9 is cutting before the end of the year: https://twitter.com/e_russell/status/887691198802120706

izbtmnhd wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:

WN at CLE is way larger the CVG. CLE is not STL sized but it's not two destinations either. Not slamming CVG either, I know WN will grow that station out but F9 made these additions knowing how the current market stands.

And like cvgspotter said, NK has good presence at both CLE and CAK. CLE even has B6 to BOS/FLL.

I think F9 is trying to read tea leaves with these routes.

In fact the interesting thing about CLE is that about the only domestic carrier left to serve the region is AS. And everyone else has decent sized skin in the game except for B6.



CLE is a large enough WN station for them to mess with UA on the MKE-CLE route. They are a long way off at CVG from targeting certain DL leftover routes from the hub days. B6 slowly went into midwestern cities with the BOS/FLL offerings very much under the radar. I don't know if F9's CVG buildup would stop B6 from entering that market - maybe it just isn't large enough.


Ha..you beat me to it about MKE. Most a.netters got it wrong when WN closed DAY and CAK. Many thought the focus would be on CVG but instead it seems like WN is trying grow CLE. I think CLE is heading towards a PIT/CMH sized station. We'll see.


Adding to this, there was some indication in the Ohio thread that the early numbers for WN at CVG were not good at all. Granted, it's only been a month, but it's a surprise.
A310/319/320/321/333, ARJ, BN2, B717/722/73S/733/734/735/73G/738/739/744/757/753/767/763/764/777, CR1/2/7/9, DH6, 328, EM2/ERJ/E70/E75/E90, F28/100, J31, L10/12/15, DC9/D93/D94/D95/M80/M88/M90/D10, SF3, SST
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 460
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:20 pm

Most of those cuts are most likely seasonal. F9 is a very seasonal airline. Every year they cut summer routes in the fall and add winter/spring routes. Then in April they cut the winter routes and add summer routes.
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
phluser
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:21 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
phluser wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
WN at CLE is way larger the CVG. .


True, but WN has a larger presence at PIT than at CLE. For example, WN has up to 4 to 5x daily (maybe) on PIT-MCO. Then Spirit and Allegiant started covering the very low fare segment in PIT, likely leaving F9 little growth room there, so it's understandable it's not focusing more at PIT. However, it leaves very light coverage into markets like PIT, that I wonder if it makes enough profit on the limited flights, to justify the station at such a low presence.


It is fascinating with the PIT buildup by NK that they have left in place (For now) the LBE-MCO/FLL service. Maybe it compliments PIT service or has its own niche?


At this point, I think it's more niche. Maybe some local fliers have the Spirit credit card and can redeem FF at either airport thus complimentary, but my assessment of LBE/Latrobe, is that it's quite rural area airport, and probably pretty niche in the end.

Spirit might be able to keep it as a profitable niche, but I don't think LBE/Latrobe is a good alternate airport for all of the PIT market, hence NK's decision to open PIT, and ultimately unlike how F9 plans to use PVD for BOS/New England. With F9 seeking unserved markets but at somewhat medium size airports, my guess is F9 might consider MHT, with MHT-MIA as MHT lacks South Florida service. Likely MHT-MCO will be done as well, since MCO is pretty much offered at every eastern station.
 
olddominion727
Posts: 465
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:16 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:35 pm

F9 served SJC once already... kinda like on old bf coming back to see if the girl still likes him
 
ty97
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 1:06 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:45 pm

Some of these are unique and unexpected adds, will be interesting to see what sticks.

COS-TPA and COS-RSW are head scratchers to me, but F9 (hopefully) knows more than I do.
 
TerminalD
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:58 pm

Can someone rename this thread?

There have been like 20 other threads deleted that reference this thread. I think that means the title isn't working. I propose the USA Today headline:

"Frontier (F9) to add 21 cities, 85 routes"
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3686
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:05 pm

FLYKTPA wrote:
Most of those cuts are most likely seasonal. F9 is a very seasonal airline. Every year they cut summer routes in the fall and add winter/spring routes. Then in April they cut the winter routes and add summer routes.


I agree with this. Some of the routes listed are seasonal cuts that just don't run during this update and come back after it.
 
phluser
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:23 pm

flyPIT wrote:
Little room for growth there (PIT-MCO) as you said considering all the incumbants, yet the sole F9 route remaining at PIT is.... PIT-MCO. Go figure.


Along with being less than daily and limited to a single route, the PIT-MCO flight times are late, arriving MCO after 10pm. Typically flights into MCO that reach so late have less popularity. The fares will have to rock bottom low to the point it's not profitable. Maybe it adds more service or silently pulls out on that route. It shouldn't affect a possibility of it on DEN-PIT seasonally, where there are connections (for east-west) and another destination for the DEN point of sale.
 
User avatar
KLMatSJC
Posts: 801
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 1:16 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:57 pm

AirFiero wrote:
How many years has it been since they served SJC? Ten?


It ended May 14, 2010. So I guess it will be around 7.5 years since it stopped.
A318/19/20/21/21N A332/3 A343/5 A388 B712 B722 B732/3/4/7/8/9/9ER B744/4M B752/3 B762ER/3/3ER/4ER B772/E/L/W B788 CRJ2/7/9 Q400 EMB-120 ERJ-135/140/145/145XR/175 DC-10-10 MD-82/83/88/90

Long Live the Tulip, Cactus, and Redwood
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:16 pm

TerminalD wrote:
Can someone rename this thread?

There have been like 20 other threads deleted that reference this thread. I think that means the title isn't working. I propose the USA Today headline:

"Frontier (F9) to add 21 cities, 85 routes"


I agree. At then same time, one or two of the threads have been (potentially) interesting, such as this one - "10 routes from sleepy little ISP" - but which has been a bit lost in the crowd and is now deleted. Face value "10 routes from sleep little ISP" is surprising, even shocking, but digging a bit deeper, it's pretty much a re-run of what Southwest did in 1998, as the gateway to NYC:

http://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/05/nyreg ... ip-li.html

"Southwest Airlines to Offer Low-Cost Flights From Islip, L.I.

After a long survey of the region's airports, Southwest ruled out La Guardia, Kennedy and Newark as too congested, on the ground and in the air, for the quick turnarounds, tight schedules and rapid expansion that the airline practices."


And too expensive - if any were available - for then CEO Herb Kelleher, who could be a bit of a Scrooge about such things:

Islip Airport officials today would only confirm that they were holding discussions with Southwest. But they have been courting the airline and its rollicking chief, Herb Kelleher, for years, with one manager promising to greet him and his first flights with a full contingent of bagpipes."

Southwest did okay at ISP - lasted fro 10 years - although eventually, after Kelleher's departure and Gary Kelly's preference for primary airports, they went to LGA when a deal came up, which I suppose Frontier might do if they could get a decent financial deal. In the meantime it is a way of servicing some of the NY area through a surrogate.
aeternum nauta
 
rajincajun01
Posts: 746
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:16 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:19 pm

ty97 wrote:
Some of these are unique and unexpected adds, will be interesting to see what sticks.

COS-TPA and COS-RSW are head scratchers to me, but F9 (hopefully) knows more than I do.


As for COS-TPA, I'm going to guess they are linking the Air Force Academy in COS with MacDill AFB in Tampa. I'm sure there is some snowbird/ski traffic too. DEN-TPA is a popular route with about 7 daily nonstop flights among F9, UA, and WN.
A319 A320 A321 A330 B1900 B717 B727 B737 B757 B767 B777 B787 C172 C402 CR2 CR7 CRJ9 DH8 E120 ERJ135 ERJ145 E170/175/190 L1011 MD80 MD90 SF340
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1948
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:23 pm

phluser wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Little room for growth there (PIT-MCO) as you said considering all the incumbants, yet the sole F9 route remaining at PIT is.... PIT-MCO. Go figure.


Along with being less than daily and limited to a single route, the PIT-MCO flight times are late, arriving MCO after 10pm. Typically flights into MCO that reach so late have less popularity. The fares will have to rock bottom low to the point it's not profitable. Maybe it adds more service or silently pulls out on that route. It shouldn't affect a possibility of it on DEN-PIT seasonally, where there are connections (for east-west) and another destination for the DEN point of sale.


I don't see why PIT-DEN needs to be seasonal. Less than daily fine but nothing at all during half the year to their main hub? I would think it would be fine with the connections and ski season. Then there could have been PIT-ISP/PVD/SAT... monopoly routes (other than OneJet to PVD) that they are starting from other similar cities. MIA would have been a safe add. There was TTN all along.

They have done nothing but shrink since the day they have arrived so if PIT is anything but toast in the future I'll be happily surprised.
FLYi
 
phluser
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:25 pm

flyPIT wrote:
I don't see why PIT-DEN needs to be seasonal. Less than daily fine but nothing at all during half the year to their main hub?


F9 reduces eastern US-DEN flying in the Winter, so it is the pattern that some service is cut altogether in that process as well. It increases north to south (Florida) as well.

As DEN demand tapers off from the eastern US and the other way as well, seats on Southwest and United become reasonably inexpensive; leisure pax fly those carriers and Frontier has fewer low fare leisure seeking passengers left to attract. Even CLE-DEN isn't run in the Winter, while it's a tad shorter, and F9 has a longer history and larger presence at CLE. Maybe F9 should niche itself from Southwest and United and run CAK-DEN again, and it'd get some Cleveland and Pittsburgh area travelers in one flight, while having a niche on it too for the local market. Although CAK-Florida is now pretty much covered by Spirit, so I doubt F9 would bother with opening the station again. Over in PA, MDT and ABE could probably use either Spirit or Frontier against Allegiant, with service to MCO and South Florida, as starting routes, but probably not both carriers would work.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:04 pm

jbpdx wrote:
So I just tried out the Frontier app again and there are no flights bookable from Portland or Santa Ana after 1 November. The only destination from both is DEN and you cannot select a flight to book. Unless this is an oversight, I'd say both cities are being eliminated from the network. I can't imagine they'd maintain operations with one daily departure.


About five minutes ago, I tried DEN-PDX and DEN-SNA for January and February and both were bookable - SNA 2 x daily and PDX 1 x daily.

I'm aware of the the hoo-about them over the past two or three days, and maybe they will be cancelled, but as I say they're bookable now.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 677
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:34 pm

flyPIT wrote:
phluser wrote:
flyPIT wrote:
Little room for growth there (PIT-MCO) as you said considering all the incumbants, yet the sole F9 route remaining at PIT is.... PIT-MCO. Go figure.


Along with being less than daily and limited to a single route, the PIT-MCO flight times are late, arriving MCO after 10pm. Typically flights into MCO that reach so late have less popularity. The fares will have to rock bottom low to the point it's not profitable. Maybe it adds more service or silently pulls out on that route. It shouldn't affect a possibility of it on DEN-PIT seasonally, where there are connections (for east-west) and another destination for the DEN point of sale.


I don't see why PIT-DEN needs to be seasonal. Less than daily fine but nothing at all during half the year to their main hub? I would think it would be fine with the connections and ski season. Then there could have been PIT-ISP/PVD/SAT... monopoly routes (other than OneJet to PVD) that they are starting from other similar cities. MIA would have been a safe add. There was TTN all along.

They have done nothing but shrink since the day they have arrived so if PIT is anything but toast in the future I'll be happily surprised.


If F9 does not get the pax numbers they need to be profitable on a route, the route will be reduced or dropped. Winter traffic to the Steel City for DEN is marginal at best (other than the holiday periods and Bronco-Steeler games). My guess is that with AA's fare matching on connecting routes, NK already being a familiar option and lack of O/D locally paved the way for not continuing their initial service routes.

As for DEN-PIT, it is likely the route will come back for the 2018 summer season. It is the way Frontier now operates, seasonally on many routes. :stretch:

Frontier 14
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:48 pm

Are the BNA-TPA and BNA-RSW routes seasonal or year round?
 
TerminalD
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:32 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:39 am

mariner wrote:
TerminalD wrote:
Can someone rename this thread?

There have been like 20 other threads deleted that reference this thread. I think that means the title isn't working. I propose the USA Today headline:

"Frontier (F9) to add 21 cities, 85 routes"


I agree. At then same time, one or two of the threads have been (potentially) interesting, such as this one - "10 routes from sleepy little ISP" - but which has been a bit lost in the crowd and is now deleted. Face value "10 routes from sleep little ISP" is surprising, even shocking, but digging a bit deeper, it's pretty much a re-run of what Southwest did in 1998, as the gateway to NYC:

I've commented on several of the threads only to see them deleted.

I just created this thread, let's see if it survives. UA said F9's new plan is a sign of failure.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1368841
 
MaxTrimm
Posts: 277
Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2015 2:43 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:08 am

I was able to compile all of the available schedules and routes to make a list and article about the expansion and the flights added and subtracted from the network. Here it is: http://layoverhub.net/frontier-airlines ... ew-routes/
 
Jshank83
Posts: 3686
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:29 am

MaxTrimm wrote:
I was able to compile all of the available schedules and routes to make a list and article about the expansion and the flights added and subtracted from the network. Here it is: http://layoverhub.net/frontier-airlines ... ew-routes/


Thanks for the link but the schedules are not right for a handful that I checked. MCI-CUN/TPA are not daily. Others you have the wrong days listed. You are missing some routes that were cut. Ie BNA/STL-PHX
 
dragon-wings
Posts: 4167
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2001 4:55 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:24 am

As someone who lives close to Islip (I can get in the car and be at the terminal in 5 minutes) it will be nice to see a new airline at Islip. I don't fly a lot but when I do I always choose Islip (I refuse to drive all the way to the city) so having another airline to choose from will be nice.
Don't give up don't ever give up - Jim Valvano
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5488
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:31 pm

MaxTrimm wrote:
I was able to compile all of the available schedules and routes to make a list and article about the expansion and the flights added and subtracted from the network. Here it is: http://layoverhub.net/frontier-airlines ... ew-routes/

I see errors as well. But the effort is appreciated.

My major question regards the map of dropped routes. Do you have a source for this info? For example, SAN-CVG & CLE, operating this summer, were announced as seasonal, apparently ending seasonally sometime this fall. Since the F9 booking window is only open until early April, how do you know SAN-CVG/CLE won't be returning in May or June of 2018? Where is your dividing line between discontinued routes and seasonal ones?

With seasonal routes ending, F9 certainly has some a/c to work with for the winter, to feed the announced expansion. In 2018, we'll see if new a/c deliveries and truly cancelled flights account for all of the "semi-announced" new routes next spring.

bb
 
jplatts
Posts: 3932
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:41 pm

Will Frontier end up extending DFW-CVG nonstop service to all 7 days of the week and adding daily nonstop service from DFW to LAS and ORD?
 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:53 pm

Is SFO-DEN being dropped or not? It's still in their booking database on their website in December.
^
 
AirFiero
Posts: 1552
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:43 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:11 pm

MaxTrimm wrote:
I was able to compile all of the available schedules and routes to make a list and article about the expansion and the flights added and subtracted from the network. Here it is: http://layoverhub.net/frontier-airlines ... ew-routes/


I am trying to make sense of the SJC schedule. Here is the SJC-DEN schedule:

Denver (DEN) to San Jose (SJC)

F9597 Denver 9:45 a.m. departure -> San Jose 11:26 a.m. arrival A319 Daily

F9598 San Jose 6:50 p.m. departure -> Denver 10:22 p.m. arrival

Here is the SJC-LAS schedule, which is obviously a turn around in SJC and isn't daily:

Las Vegas (LAS) to San Jose (SJC)

F91979 Las Vegas 11:35 a.m. departure -> San Jose 1:02 p.m. arrival A320 2,4,6,7

F91980 San Jose 1:50 p.m. departure -> Las Vegas 3:11 p.m. arrival

The AUS and SAT flights aren't starting until spring, so what's with the gap in the DEN flight times? Where does the aircraft come from and go to besides DEN.
 
jbpdx
Posts: 866
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2015 6:37 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:43 pm

jbpdx wrote:
Is SFO-DEN being dropped or not? It's still in their booking database on their website in December.


Sorry, I meant CVG-SFO, which someone said was being discontinued. Anyway, it's still in the booking database too with a Den Deal price selection.
^
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Significant System Wide Frontier Announcement Tuesday July 18th

Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:37 pm

jplatts wrote:
Will Frontier end up extending DFW-CVG nonstop service to all 7 days of the week and adding daily nonstop service from DFW to LAS and ORD?


Not sure. What are your thoughts on it?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos