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Indy
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Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:32 pm

I brought this up in the Indianapolis aviation thread but I think this may need input from people who understand how such a construction process would even go.

http://www.indystar.com/story/news/loca ... 475948001/

Someone is buying up 2,200 acres of land on the northeast side of the Indy metro area. Rumors are flying and there is some speculation that it may be an airport. I've pulled up the area on Google Maps and it would be an ideal location to build an airport. The area is still wide open with little development around it, and it has easy access to I-69. The area is also close to the most affluent area of the Indy metro area. There are few things that a development this large could actually be. Hearing it called a "great economic asset" would probably rule out a large residential complex. This is far to big to be a factory, distribution center, retail, center, etc. I've looked up sizes of such developments and they don't even come close to the size of this project. What about a large corporate center? The Microsoft campus in Redmond is something like 500 acres. So I think such a facility could be ruled out as well. Theme park? It would have to be a huge park including hotels, retail centers, etc. Even then I believe 2,200 acres would be overkill. To put it in perspective, Kings Island in Cincinnati is just 364 acres.

Airports are about the only things to use that much land. MKE is comparable in size to this new project. But would someone really spend upwards of $80 million in land for a new Indy area airport? There is really limited room for cargo growth at IND so it is possible this airport could largely be a cargo facility.

My question to the aviation experts here... what would it take to build an airport? Is this something that could be planned in secret? Would you buy up that much land without knowing if you'd get FAA approval? What would the process be?

Personally I am hoping for a theme park so in a way it would be nice if someone could offer up solid evidence discrediting the airport theory that has been floated in the local news.
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:54 pm

IND has been voted the best airport in the country for years, it would be pretty stupid to build a new one.
 
Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:58 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
IND has been voted the best airport in the country for years, it would be pretty stupid to build a new one.


It would be stupid to build a passenger airport to try and compete with IND. But could the same be true of a cargo airport?
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:25 pm

If it's an airport, I bet it'll be mostly cargo and maybe an alternative passenger airport for Allegiant. Unlike most cities served by Allegiant, in Indianapolis they're using the main airport. In most cities they're using an alternative (Orlando Sanford, Charlotte Concord, Chicago Rockford, Phoenix Mesa, etc). With an alternative airport present there's more room for growth at the main airport for legacies, maybe even some TATL flights.
 
aviationjunky
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:23 pm

Could it be a smaller, "regional" airport for carriers with smaller aircraft to use in order to declutter IND?
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drdisque
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:03 pm

aviationjunky wrote:
Could it be a smaller, "regional" airport for carriers with smaller aircraft to use in order to declutter IND?


IND has no "small carriers" except OneJet, and I doubt they'd be interested in moving (and they only have 2 flights per day).
 
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redzeppelin
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:05 pm

Indy wrote:
My question to the aviation experts here... what would it take to build an airport? Is this something that could be planned in secret? Would you buy up that much land without knowing if you'd get FAA approval? What would the process be?


From the article:
Gatewood signed a purchase option with Hathaway to sell 900 acres, but he said a confidentiality agreement prevented him from saying how much he was offered or anything else about the plan... Gatewood said the option agreement means he can’t sell to anyone else as long as the development plan is alive.


It sounds like they are negotiating purchase options, but aren't closing any sales until they get the critical mass of commitments that they need. It's not clear to me how much land they are really trying to buy. It looks like they have targeted an area and are making offers to everybody around until they can piece together something big enough to meet their needs, at which time they will reveal the plan.

The area highlighted on the map in the article is about 3 miles long by 2 miles wide, so there is enough room to build a lengthy runway, but it's not immediately clear that they are trying to buy that sort of long narrow parcel. The highlighted area is close to 4000 acres, and they are apparently trying to buy about half of it, but there is no mention of the dimensions they are looking for.

My instinct is that it's not for an airport, if only because it is very unusual for private developers to build airports. Airports are typically viewed as public infrastructure projects, and I would expect the developer to lean on the local government and promise to sign a long-term lease and pay lots of taxes if the government will finance the airport construction. Land acquisition could be easier that way if the government chose to exercise eminent domain. But the local officials seem to be in the dark...

On the other hand, some of the other suggestions, like a warehouse park, could probably start small and grow in time as adjacent parcels come up for sale. The airport idea is one of the few where they would need to have all of the property lined up in advance.
 
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Continental767
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:20 pm

I can't see another airport in Indianapolis. The current one is basically brand new when it comes to airports, and has been rated the best airport in the country year after year. There are still multiple gates available for use. FedEx isn't going to move; they have their second largest operation at IND. I am just struggling to see the point. Living in Hamilton County, I would love to see an airport built closer to home. But I just cannot see it happening.
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kngkyle
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:38 am

It could be for one of the next Tesla Gigafactories. He said more locations will be announced before the end of this year. The one in Nevada is on a 2,800 acre site (much of it still undeveloped though).
 
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:03 am

I thought there was a rock quarry near there.

An airport is kind of pointless since there already is the Indianapolis regional airport on that side of town. Anderson also has an airport not far away.
 
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:12 am

kngkyle wrote:
It could be for one of the next Tesla Gigafactories. He said more locations will be announced before the end of this year. The one in Nevada is on a 2,800 acre site (much of it still undeveloped though).


I think you hit the nail on the head. Indiana is a huge auto manufacturing state (GM, Toyota, Fiat Chrysler, Honda, and Subaru all have major plants here) and the site would be perfect for Gigafactory 3. Let's not forget that the proximity to I-69 means that Tesla can access Michigan auto suppliers without dealing with Michigan's auto sales laws that ban Tesla from delivering vehicles within state lines.

An airport on the site ain't going to happen. IND hasn't even built its third parallel runway yet and is still below capacity, especially on the passenger side. And I'm sure the IAA could even build a fourth if need be, even with the recent land sales.
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Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:48 am

Since this is in Hamilton county, is it even under the jurisdiction of the IAA? Apparently there was a desire to move Indy Metro airport. I guess the current location isn't ideal. Here is more food for thought. A number of years ago the IAA commissioned a study to research the viability of an international air cargo facility. The results of that study were never made public. Could it have been determined that due to the size of FedEx and the limited space for growth around the airport that building the new facility at a different location would be the best option? This space would allow for the construction of a runway big enough for pretty much any jet. It would also give plenty of room for the construction of cargo processing buildings and ramp space.

The IAA has been selling off real estate near IND. Could this money be used to help secure new land? We don't really know who is behind this effort. Only thing we know for sure is that they are willing to pay top dollar for farm land and they are wanting to buying up a ton of it.
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hz747300
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:38 am

I thought they had one of the newer terminals in the US? I think it would be silly to build a new airport now. Given that, it seems like exactly that the government do.
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PSU.DTW.SCE
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:52 am

I guarentee that 99.999999999% this is not an airport. Like said, airports are publicly acquired and built facilities and there is much more transparecy and much less secrecy in these types of developments.

There is a similar type of mysterious development of large parcels of land being acquired in Mid-Michigan, off I-69 between Flint in Lansing. The stories started being picked-up in the mainstream media few weeks ago. Its called "Project Tim". Much speculation that it could be related to Telsa's Gigafactory plans. There are public officials who know more but are sworn to secrecy under NDAs. I'm highly skeptical at this point of if this is viable, but we'll see.

http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf ... etail.html
http://www.argus-press.com/news/news_lo ... 5b43b.html
http://michiganradio.org/post/secretive ... own-durand
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20 ... roject-tim


This sounds very similar to Project Tim, and also that they are both located off I-69 could lead to speculation they are somewhat related.

And it would be absolutely absurd if IND-area were to build a greenfield-airport, considering what they already have with IND.
 
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atypical
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:21 am

I think the last thing it will be is an airport. Too close to Noblesville to get approval for a large runway. To close to GUS to even think about constructing a facility when there is one with a 12,000 ft runway ready to go. A third executive airport would be competing against UMP and TYQ and not make IAA very happy. FedEx moving out would be a devastating to IND and the new airport certainly would not have the same length runways so it couldn't be as cargo friendly. Adding any passenger services out of another area airport diminishes IND which is by no means full. A large or a small airport would be unwanted competition and a financial drain. The other thing about that real estate is that it will be adjacent to or within a very short distance to Klipsch Music Center making an airport even less likely than it already was.

Backing up the the relevant information. "Realtors for Berkshire Hathaway began mailing offers for land about 18 months ago and, as recently as two weeks ago, visited..." This would have to be agents from Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices Indiana Realty. That is a residential real estate broker. Sure they could be acting as local agents for Warren Buffet's plans however Warren Buffet has just bought STORE Capital which is a much better fit for any commercial development. Considering this land is very close to an I-69 interchange it would be a great area to develop a residential development. That also works well with his Clayton Homes or Goodall Homes. Figuring out why its Berkshire Hathaway will tell us what it is.
 
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:23 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I guarentee that 99.999999999% this is not an airport. Like said, airports are publicly acquired and built facilities and there is much more transparecy and much less secrecy in these types of developments.


They usually are, but don't have to be publicly developed. However, the FAA approval process can be long and drawn out, and that would result in a lot of publicly accessible information.

An industrial park seems most likely. Whether it's for Tesla or some other company, who knows.
 
Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:33 am

Given what is being offered up for this land it seems residential is unlikely. A residential area isn't a significant asset either. I'd put residential all the way at the bottom of the list. The Tesla project seems interesting. I'd wonder if Amazon was looking to build a private airport with a single runway, a huge sort facility and ramp space for maybe half a dozen jets or something. But with CVG being just down the highway it really wouldn't make sense. But then again Amazon is getting a bit carried away with the aviation portion of their business so who knows what they may be planning to blow money on. I'd call Tesla a significant asset. Same would be true for a theme park. Residential? No.

Forgetting the idea how airports are typically built, if this were a private operation, wouldn't there be FAA filings that would need to be approved before you could do anything? Even if you tried to do things in secret there would sill be a paper trail I'd assume.
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:36 am

I also wonder if there isn't some sort of "decoy" plans being run here. There are rumors in other areas including like mentioned Tesla, Amazon, and Foxconn going after large land parcels in various areas of the country. Its not uncommon for this high-profile site selection teams to consider multiple locations and pursue multiple options that way to not tip the hand of the media or other stakeholders. Especially considering that they are signing purchase options, not purchase agreements for real estate.
 
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:43 am

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Much speculation that it could be related to Telsa's Gigafactory plans.


Tesla will not build a factory in Michigan. Michigan is one of the states that imposes a ban on Tesla sales. Musk is not going to patronize a state that will not allow him to sell products he builds there. Talk has been of a Gigafactory in Texas, and until a recent failure to pass legislation to allow Tesla to sell cars there, it was a possibility. Texas is one state that certainly would want to get along with Musk rather than not. SpaceX is heavily invested there and the potential Gigafactory would make Texas the second most important state to Musk with his investments.
 
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:08 am

A privately built airport is pretty unusual, so I think some other use is more likely. A very large industrial use, like an auto assembly plant or Tesla battery factory is certainly a possibility. Even if they're not going to build on 2,000 acres, they certainly like to have lots of room to store cars, test cars, etc. Another possibility is a rail yard. Indianapolis is pretty central and railways always want to move away from congested Chicago. Indianapolis seems like a plausible choice.
 
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:18 am

I've been to Indy and seems a half full so doubt its a new airport. Outside of Chicago, Midwest will need to grow a lot to even fill the capacity already there.
 
Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:42 am

Planeflyer wrote:
I've been to Indy and seems a half full so doubt its a new airport. Outside of Chicago, Midwest will need to grow a lot to even fill the capacity already there.


Remember we are likely not talking about passenger service but instead something that would be mostly cargo and maybe some general aviation.

I actually live about 2 miles from the end of the runway of the Mount Comfort airport or Indy Regional. I've always thought it would some day be used as a cargo airport. There is already a great number of distribution facilities built in the area with an I-70 interchange right there. I don't think you'd get as much complaining about cargo service there as you would near Fishers/Noblesville.
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Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:46 am

This was a comment that someone posted on the Indy Star story.

"For the past several months (almost a year now?), Duke Energy has been building an electrical substation on 38 between Boden and Mystic. That substation isn't a typical one; it taps directly into high-voltage lines fed by power plants. I was confused when Duke started building it, because it wouldn't apparently have been connected to anything that would draw all that much power. Perhaps Duke got a heads-up?"

I wonder how far in advance something like this gets built.
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Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:51 am

I looked up the Tesla Gigafactory and apparently they are going to announce #3, #4 and possibly #5 late this year. 3 & 4 would be Europe and Asia with #5 being in the U.S. If Tesla were to build in this spot being discussed, they would have to tie into the closest rail line which is at best 4 miles away. There is pretty much no way this operation is doable without the rail link.
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 8:45 am

Indy wrote:
I looked up the Tesla Gigafactory and apparently they are going to announce #3, #4 and possibly #5 late this year. 3 & 4 would be Europe and Asia with #5 being in the U.S. If Tesla were to build in this spot being discussed, they would have to tie into the closest rail line which is at best 4 miles away. There is pretty much no way this operation is doable without the rail link.


Probably not. The NUMMI/Tesla factory had a small train yard that has since been buried under ramped fill for heavy equipment and a new fence is blocking the tracks. In fact there is a lot of new fencing covering tracks and none of the rail track fence seems to be gated.

In Buffalo there is track near "Gigafactory 2" but no rail is coming on site.

At the Nevada Gigafactory the closest rail line is 3 miles but I am pretty sure it will never make it near the factory. The terrain is hilly enough to require major grade work to get a rail spur. I doubt Musk wants or needs rail or he would have chosen a different location or have at least started grading. Gigafactory is in production so there is very little they will need a train for later that they don't need now.

There may be a small chance they will use rail at some time but the evidence is pretty solid that rail is going to play no part.
 
Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:23 pm

I believe it would be out of character for a fully functional automotive assembly plant to not have rail access. Look at the four major plants in Indiana. All have rail access to them. How do you feed a plant the size of a Gigafactory without a rail line? Truck by truck seems highly inefficient. It may prove that failing to connect a rail line to the Gigafactory in NV was a big mistake. Tesla will learn from the mistakes it makes.
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Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:10 pm

We can rule out Foxxcon (fortunately). They picked Wisconsin. What a horrible company. How bad of a company do you have to be for workers to commit suicide in protest over working conditions?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... ce-extract
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Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:11 pm

Note to moderator: Should this be moved to non aviation for now? The story hit the news for a day or two and was quickly forgotten about.
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globalcabotage
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:48 am

No need for a 2nd passenger airport in Indy. Let private investors do this and hope turns into AFW. If not, BKG ring a bell?
 
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:22 am

Indy wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
IND has been voted the best airport in the country for years, it would be pretty stupid to build a new one.


It would be stupid to build a passenger airport to try and compete with IND. But could the same be true of a cargo airport?


You seem to accept it's not a passenger airport because competing with IND would be "stupid." Why wouldn't the same hold true for an exclusive cargo airport?
 
len90
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:51 am

Why would there be an exclusive cargo airport? With IND you have FX over there with their secondary hub (FedEx Second Day). There is also a lot of empty space still remaining where the original terminal was.

As for passenger service... you have plenty of space at the current terminal setup. I wasn't there on a race weekend or football weekend, but there seemed to be an overabundance of empty gates. 40 jetways seemed to be like more than enough for future growth.
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Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:00 pm

jetero wrote:
Indy wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
IND has been voted the best airport in the country for years, it would be pretty stupid to build a new one.


It would be stupid to build a passenger airport to try and compete with IND. But could the same be true of a cargo airport?


You seem to accept it's not a passenger airport because competing with IND would be "stupid." Why wouldn't the same hold true for an exclusive cargo airport?


It is a little different with cargo. Space is an issue at IND with FX dominating cargo operations. The airport once studied an international air cargo facility for IND but the results were never disclosed. Would you be competing against IND if the study recommended non FX cargo be moved to a secondary location in order to provide more room for future FX expansion? No way to know without seeing the results of the study.
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jetero
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:47 pm

Indy wrote:
jetero wrote:
Indy wrote:

It would be stupid to build a passenger airport to try and compete with IND. But could the same be true of a cargo airport?


You seem to accept it's not a passenger airport because competing with IND would be "stupid." Why wouldn't the same hold true for an exclusive cargo airport?


It is a little different with cargo. Space is an issue at IND with FX dominating cargo operations. The airport once studied an international air cargo facility for IND but the results were never disclosed. Would you be competing against IND if the study recommended non FX cargo be moved to a secondary location in order to provide more room for future FX expansion? No way to know without seeing the results of the study.


So, instead of finding room on the existing airfield, perhaps acquiring parcels to enable the expansion, do you think FX would support what would likely be a $1 billion+ investment for which it would have the responsibility of paying the lion's share of use? Versus IND where it shares the cost with passenger airlines? Especially with MEM less than 500 miles down the road? Hell, if those would be the business terms, I'd just spend $1 billion at an existing airport without space constraints (if there, indeed, are any at IND).
 
Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:52 pm

FX would stay where it is. The other location would be for other carriers. It wouldn't cost FX a dime. FYI... IND is selling off land around IND for some reason and using valuable space for non aviation business. Not sure those are smart moves. But at least you can get your oil changed at IND. *sarcasm*
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:53 pm

Indy wrote:
FX would stay where it is. The other location would be for other carriers. It wouldn't cost FX a dime. FYI... IND is selling off land around IND for some reason and using valuable space for non aviation business. Not sure those are smart moves. But at least you can get your oil changed at IND. *sarcasm*


Yikes. What an expensive proposition for those other airlines.
 
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:09 pm

jetero wrote:
Indy wrote:
FX would stay where it is. The other location would be for other carriers. It wouldn't cost FX a dime. FYI... IND is selling off land around IND for some reason and using valuable space for non aviation business. Not sure those are smart moves. But at least you can get your oil changed at IND. *sarcasm*


Yikes. What an expensive proposition for those other airlines.


The IAA wanted to move Indy Metro airport due to a lack of expansion space so it could be one of those killing two birds with one stone move.
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jetero
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:22 pm

Indy wrote:
jetero wrote:
Indy wrote:
FX would stay where it is. The other location would be for other carriers. It wouldn't cost FX a dime. FYI... IND is selling off land around IND for some reason and using valuable space for non aviation business. Not sure those are smart moves. But at least you can get your oil changed at IND. *sarcasm*


Yikes. What an expensive proposition for those other airlines.


The IAA wanted to move Indy Metro airport due to a lack of expansion space so it could be one of those killing two birds with one stone move.


Yeah, and there used to be no hotels closer than 9 miles from the DEN terminals to preserve land for "expansion." A planning exercise on paper, nothing more. Two parallel runways? How many gates? IND can probably accommodate 30 million passengers in the blink of an eye. Non-express cargo operations shouldn't be a problem either.

The most important question--who do you think would be paying for this?
 
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:29 pm

The area is also close to the most affluent area of (...)

Wouldn't it guarantee noise complains?
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Indy
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:49 pm

c933103 wrote:
The area is also close to the most affluent area of (...)

Wouldn't it guarantee noise complains?


The area is pretty much undeveloped. It is a great location to build an airport. Residential development hasn't reached the area yet. I mean there are probably a few houses but it isn't built up like Carmel, Noblesville & Fishers.
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:00 pm

atypical wrote:
PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
Much speculation that it could be related to Telsa's Gigafactory plans.


Tesla will not build a factory in Michigan. Michigan is one of the states that imposes a ban on Tesla sales. Musk is not going to patronize a state that will not allow him to sell products he builds there. Talk has been of a Gigafactory in Texas, and until a recent failure to pass legislation to allow Tesla to sell cars there, it was a possibility. Texas is one state that certainly would want to get along with Musk rather than not. SpaceX is heavily invested there and the potential Gigafactory would make Texas the second most important state to Musk with his investments.


Umm.... Tesla has a plant here in Michigan. In fact, I'm looking at their building right now- I work nearby. They make components for their vehicles here.

http://woodtv.com/2015/10/30/first-look ... -michigan/
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:04 pm

PSU.DTW.SCE wrote:
I guarentee that 99.999999999% this is not an airport. Like said, airports are publicly acquired and built facilities and there is much more transparecy and much less secrecy in these types of developments.


I'll see your 99.999% and raise you to 100%.

No way this is an airport.
 
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Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:23 pm

I think it's just going to be another large PUD (Planned Unit Development) like Anson in Whitestown. Developer comes in and basically builds a new "town" with residential, industrial/distribution, some retail, and office space (though the office spaces rarely ever happen).
Boiler up!
 
tabaxter
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2008 2:43 pm

Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Thu Jul 27, 2017 4:24 pm

Amazon is beefing up their air cargo business....
 
Krivak
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:25 pm

Re: Indy Area Getting a New Airport?

Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:12 pm

I work at the Fedex hub here in KIND, and they have already made plans (and spent money) to build a fourth runway on the other side of I-70, with a taxiway going overhead. Thats one of the reasons they re-did 70. In addition, they are expanding the aircraft gates further west along perimeter road to accommodate further aircraft. They also have expansion plans for buildings for the sort operations. Far as up there, it could be something like amazon trying it out, but they have the CVG airport. Wouldnt take much for a few trucks from Whitestown to make it there before any planes were to launch. At Fedex, planes land from 11pm-3AM, with them leaving by 5 AM. As long as they make the window before 2 AM in Ohio, they can make an overnight across the country. Not easy, but doable.

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