PIEAvantiP180
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DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:24 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-y ... A52SM?il=0

DL will fund LGA terminal redevelopment by its self and port authority. DL will contribute $3.4b of cash tru airline operations and debt financing, port will provide the other $600mil of $4b total project costs. Any cost increases to the project will be on DL shoulders to bear and to provide the necessary funds until the project is completed.
 
AWACSooner
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:26 pm

Congrats to everyone who pays the ancillary fees...you're paying for this upgrade.
 
TerminalD
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 9:41 pm

Delta has clearly found it has way too much cash seeing its foreign investments and big dividend increases, so why not spend a big chunk on something like this rather than pay Goldman their slice?

Counterpoint: DL's cost per emplacement at LGA is going to be high when this is done.
 
MIflyer12
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:14 pm

AWACSooner wrote:
Congrats to everyone who pays the ancillary fees...you're paying for this upgrade.


Or, we can continue to under-invest in LGA (and the biggest U.S. airports in general) and everybody can keep declaring what a crap-hole is LaGuardia.
 
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bluefltspecial
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:15 pm

TerminalD wrote:
Delta has clearly found it has way too much cash seeing its foreign investments and big dividend increases, so why not spend a big chunk on something like this rather than pay Goldman their slice?

Counterpoint: DL's cost per emplacement at LGA is going to be high when this is done.


I'm with you on this one, I think Delta decided to cut out the middle man. It will be interesting to see if there is some type of fee added per ticket or some type of return of this, maybe through Delta only operated concessions/food operations etc, otherwise to remain competitive they would have to distribute the cost through the system.

Delta has been rather crafty the past few years, this is likely just another twist that will reveal itself later.
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WPvsMW
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:25 pm

Good CFO.
 
jrkmsp
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:33 pm

If this is anything like Delta's other terminal investments, it will make most of its money back in the form of "rent credits." In other words, they won't be paying the PANYNJ for a long while.
 
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cosyr
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:54 pm

PIEAvantiP180 wrote:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-new-york-airport-delta-idUSKBN1A52SM?il=0

DL will fund LGA terminal redevelopment by its self and port authority. DL will contribute $3.4b of cash tru airline operations and debt financing, port will provide the other $600mil of $4b total project costs. Any cost increases to the project will be on DL shoulders to bear and to provide the necessary funds until the project is completed.


If DL can do this, why oh why can't UA decide that it is worth it to invest in the 30 years late new concourse at IAD. I know they never know what the future will hold, but airlines have never made more money, so if this isn't the time to jump on that kind of project, it never will be. And if they are waiting for DC to pay for it, it will never happen.
 
PIEAvantiP180
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:54 pm

jrkmsp wrote:
If this is anything like Delta's other terminal investments, it will make most of its money back in the form of "rent credits." In other words, they won't be paying the PANYNJ for a long while.




That's what I'm thinking as well. The article mentions DL will sign I believe a 36 year lease on the terminal space. The devil is in the details but that's a lot of money to be recouped thru rent, almost $95mil per year on a $3.4b DL investment plus any costs over budget that they are on the hook for. Not to mention that this new terminal will need a cosmetic refeesh of sorts after about 20 years of use, that will only add to the costs of the project. In 20 years time a LAX style T5 or T6 refresh coukd be upwards of $1b plus in NYC. Does anyone know how much DL is paying for its current terminal space at LGA.
 
RDUDDJI
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:14 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Congrats to everyone who pays the ancillary fees...you're paying for this upgrade.


Or, we can continue to under-invest in LGA (and the biggest U.S. airports in general) and everybody can keep declaring what a crap-hole is LaGuardia.


Unless they plan to re-align the runways or build new runways, it'll still be a crap-hole.
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Varsity1
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:24 pm

Delta is building airports and running oil refineries. Weird airline.
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Jayafe
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:32 pm

Money from fees better spent in improving facilities than feed bank accounts, from a passenger pov
 
commavia
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:36 pm

Wow. That is a pretty amazing amount of investment for an airline to capitalize for stuff that doesn't fly.
 
ScottB
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:41 pm

PIEAvantiP180 wrote:
That's what I'm thinking as well. The article mentions DL will sign I believe a 36 year lease on the terminal space. The devil is in the details but that's a lot of money to be recouped thru rent, almost $95mil per year on a $3.4b DL investment plus any costs over budget that they are on the hook for. Not to mention that this new terminal will need a cosmetic refeesh of sorts after about 20 years of use, that will only add to the costs of the project. In 20 years time a LAX style T5 or T6 refresh coukd be upwards of $1b plus in NYC.


Very true, this will mean a dramatic increase in DL's costs at LGA, but they boarded roughly 6 million passengers in 2016 so we're talking roughly $16/passenger if passenger counts don't increase; they also likely get to keep the profits on concessions and possibly even the parking given that the garage is part of the project. But... they don't really have a choice if they want to be competitive once the new CTB is completed and other airlines will be saddled with similarly high costs given that project's $4 billion price tag.

cosyr wrote:
why oh why can't UA decide that it is worth it to invest in the 30 years late new concourse at IAD


They won't because the financial return isn't there. IAD isn't the preferred airport for its region and likely never will be unless DCA is closed. Concourse B doesn't make high-yielding passengers choose IAD, so why would a new showpiece facility for UA replacing C/D do that either? IAD's costs are already too high as it is and you think UA should increase its costs there further?
 
Prost
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:45 pm

My take is DL's ability to self finance the terminal at decent rates made it prudent to leave Goldman Sachs out. Why pay an investment bake a few hundred million when you don't need to?
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:10 am

How much abatement is Delta getting in exchange for this? Much of the airport renewal was dependent on Delta itself.
 
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LoftleidirDC8
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:16 am

WN built their own international facilities at HOU amongst other major airport facilities on their own dime. The projects were on time and on budget. Delta knows that LGA needs serious help. As long as DL is flush with cash, let them spend it.
 
thegoldenargosy
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:54 am

Why does DL need a terminal at LGA? They have the best facility at LGA.
 
commavia
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:55 am

thegoldenargosy wrote:
Why does DL need a terminal at LGA?


As Delta's operation has become far more connection-intensive, Delta's LGA terminal setup has become progressively less optimal. It's logical why Delta would want to construct a single, unified, purpose-built facility that is designed with less of an emphasis on just O&D and more for connections as well.

thegoldenargosy wrote:
They have the best facility at LGA.


Needless to say - that's not saying much.
 
alfa164
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:13 am

RDUDDJI wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
AWACSooner wrote:
Congrats to everyone who pays the ancillary fees...you're paying for this upgrade.

Or, we can continue to under-invest in LGA (and the biggest U.S. airports in general) and everybody can keep declaring what a crap-hole is LaGuardia.

Unless they plan to re-align the runways or build new runways, it'll still be a crap-hole.

The approved architectural plans do move the terminal areas (of all airlines) closer to Grand Central Parkway; that doesn't make room of an additional runway, but it does make room for much more efficient taxiways, which should alleviate a lot of the congestion and back-up prior to take-offs.
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ldvaviation
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:22 am

jrkmsp wrote:
If this is anything like Delta's other terminal investments, it will make most of its money back in the form of "rent credits." In other words, they won't be paying the PANYNJ for a long while.


If I remember correctly, the $3.4 B is the rent credit.

I think the deal works something like this:

Delta pays to upgrade its terminals.

The PA credits that money towards Delta's rent (over the course of the lease).
 
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DL757NYC
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:46 am

PIEAvantiP180 wrote:
jrkmsp wrote:
If this is anything like Delta's other terminal investments, it will make most of its money back in the form of "rent credits." In other words, they won't be paying the PANYNJ for a long while.




That's what I'm thinking as well. The article mentions DL will sign I believe a 36 year lease on the terminal space. The devil is in the details but that's a lot of money to be recouped thru rent, almost $95mil per year on a $3.4b DL investment plus any costs over budget that they are on the hook for. Not to mention that this new terminal will need a cosmetic refeesh of sorts after about 20 years of use, that will only add to the costs of the project. In 20 years time a LAX style T5 or T6 refresh coukd be upwards of $1b plus in NYC. Does anyone know how much DL is paying for its current terminal space at LGA.



It cost DL roughly a million a gate. That's he number thrown around these parts
 
ldvaviation
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:57 am

commavia wrote:
thegoldenargosy wrote:
Why does DL need a terminal at LGA?


As Delta's operation has become far more connection-intensive, Delta's LGA terminal setup has become progressively less optimal. It's logical why Delta would want to construct a single, unified, purpose-built facility that is designed with less of an emphasis on just O&D and more for connections as well.


The new CTA is a "greenfield" development. It looks like the new Delta terminal will be grafted onto the existing buildings.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:05 am

LGA now has 72 gates. DL will have 37 gates after the redevelopment. I think this would be second only to ATL in percentage of DL-controled gates, and would be very surprised if DL did not have the independent right to sublease the gates in its new terminal ... DL as a mini-PANYNJ, and since its redevelopment partner is PANYNJ, may have corresponding input into slot control at LGA to match the gates.

EWR's catchment area will decrease as LGA's grows.... a fuzzy line moves westward over Manhattan.

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Last edited by WPvsMW on Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
atlflyer
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:14 am

Cool new renderings of the new facility.

https://www.delta.com/content/www/en_US ... ardia.html
 
ldvaviation
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:27 am

WPvsMW wrote:
LGA now has 72 gates. DL will have 37 gates after the redevelopment. I think this would be second only to ATL in percentage of DL-controled gates, and would be very surprised if DL did not have the independent right to sublease the gates in its new terminal ... IOW, DL becomes a mini-PANYNJ, and since its redevelopment partner is PANYNJ, may have corresponding input into slot control at LGA to match the gates.


Delta will be the sole and direct lessee of all 37 gates.

There is no corresponding input into slot control.

You can find two slide presentations on the new lease at the PA website (one from January and the other one from this week).

I just looked at them. It seems that the PA rental credit is not for the full amount of the investment. The PA estimates that it will collect $770 million in aggregate rental over the course of the lease.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:14 am

ldvaviation wrote:
Delta will be the sole and direct lessee of all 37 gates.


But being the lessee doesn't automatically convey sublessor rights.... have you seen anything to indicate DL can sublease? Sublessor rights would really reduce DL's long term risk.
 
atl100million
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:15 am

DL is using the same strategy that NW used to build its gorgeous DTW terminal – manage the construction itself. With managing the construction, DL has the ability to control costs and the timeline better which could reduce DL’s long-term costs at LGA. DL is using the same strategy on a smaller scale at LAX.

The Central Terminal will be rebuilt with similar or higher costs; because DL will control all of its own terminal, it can manage the renovation itself. The Port Authority is glad to have DAL assume responsibility for the project.

DL continues to want the perimeter rule removed or at least relaxed. While the current level of congestion makes that impossible right now, paying for all of the new facilities requires pushing more passengers thru them means increasing the number of destinations which can be served which will increase the size of aircraft that can be used. The push to relax the perimeter rule isn’t going away and there is no need to protect JFK any longer. The Port Authority has every incentive to allow legacy carriers to use larger aircraft because it will reduce the cost for lower cost carriers for whom the new terminal would significantly reduce their ability to compete at LGA.

Note also that Delta will continue to operate from the Marine Air Terminal, likely through the completion of construction so that no carriers can defect from the Central Terminal and the higher costs that will come with it for all carriers.
 
n7190jr
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:01 pm

"Note also that Delta will continue to operate from the Marine Air Terminal, likely through the completion of construction so that no carriers can defect from the Central Terminal and the higher costs that will come with it for all carriers."

Not true. Stay tuned for an announcement regarding the MAT, AA consolidating their operations, and Terminal musical chairs.
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tlecam
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:14 pm

n7190jr wrote:
"Note also that Delta will continue to operate from the Marine Air Terminal, likely through the completion of construction so that no carriers can defect from the Central Terminal and the higher costs that will come with it for all carriers."

Not true. Stay tuned for an announcement regarding the MAT, AA consolidating their operations, and Terminal musical chairs.


Ok you have my attention.

I could see AA trading those C gates with DL for marine air gates.
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commavia
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:18 pm

ldvaviation wrote:
The new CTA is a "greenfield" development. It looks like the new Delta terminal will be grafted onto the existing buildings.


Sure. I just mean that from a facility/infrastructure design standpoint, having a single unified Delta terminal is better than the current setup of the legacy Delta terminal plus the legacy Eastern/Continental/USAirways terminal.

WPvsMW wrote:
But being the lessee doesn't automatically convey sublessor rights.... have you seen anything to indicate DL can sublease? Sublessor rights would really reduce DL's long term risk.


True, it doesn't "automatically" mean that, but it is very hard for mean to imagine Delta committing to that (extremely high) level of capex and risk for such a marquee facility at one of its most important stations, and not having a high level of control over future use of the facility - including subleasing, if it chooses to do so. This is especially so since, as said, it would allow Delta to mitigate at least some risk and, perhaps more importantly, Delta almost certainly would want to - and anticipate - sublease to partners like WestJet.

n7190jr wrote:
Not true. Stay tuned for an announcement regarding the MAT, AA consolidating their operations, and Terminal musical chairs.


Interesting. AA consolidating in the CTB (I guess we're supposed to start calling it "B," now? :)) and musical chairs seemed logical and inevitable. AA is obviously not as large at LGA as Delta, but AA is still by far the airport's second largest carrier, and I'm sure AA is just as interested as Delta in having a single, unified operation at a single, unified terminal - both of these airlines today are, in one way or another, operating effectively "split" operations that are more a reflection of consolidation than either airline's ideal/objective desire. I'll be curious to see how they fit AA into the new B - looking at the renderings of the new terminal, I don't think AA's entire operation will fit into a single concourse, so I guess that means it will have to be split over two, but that does raise the question of handling operations if the gates will be common use (believe none will be preferential?), and one or two Admirals Clubs (likely just one).

I must admit I'm surprised at the prospect of Delta leaving the MAT, though, as I thought Delta was pretty insistent on keeping it. That said, from a purely operational and logistical perspective, it makes total sense to have the entire operation unified in one place. I believe the last I remember hearing here was that JetBlue was particularly interested in the MAT? Looking at JetBlue's LGA schedule, the MAT actually looks a little big for "only" JetBlue's 15-20 daily departures.
 
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Polot
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:33 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
EWR's catchment area will decrease as LGA's grows.... a fuzzy line moves westward over Manhattan.

LGA is not really growing...just replacing its current dilapidated terminals with new modern shiny ones.

LGA is already preferred over EWR/JFK in Manhattan. Its fuzzy line will never significantly go west across the Hudson though. Getting to LGA from New Jersey is a pain in the ass since it requires going completely across the city. Nice terminals won't change that headache.

atl100million wrote:
While the current level of congestion makes that impossible right now, paying for all of the new facilities requires pushing more passengers thru them means increasing the number of destinations which can be served which will increase the size of aircraft that can be used. The push to relax the perimeter rule isn’t going away and there is no need to protect JFK any longer. The Port Authority has every incentive to allow legacy carriers to use larger aircraft because it will reduce the cost for lower cost carriers for whom the new terminal would significantly reduce their ability to compete at LGA.

More destinations does not automatically increase the size of the aircraft that can be used. In fact it can end up lowering the size of aircraft on some routes. Also nothing is stopping the airlines today from using larger aircraft if they so desired.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:47 pm

I was gonna say. My inside info has another airline(s) at the MAT in the near future.

Benefits DL to be solely in C/D, AA to be consolidated and smaller airlines to be at MAT
 
Newbiepilot
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:34 pm

alfa164 wrote:
RDUDDJI wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
Or, we can continue to under-invest in LGA (and the biggest U.S. airports in general) and everybody can keep declaring what a crap-hole is LaGuardia.

Unless they plan to re-align the runways or build new runways, it'll still be a crap-hole.

The approved architectural plans do move the terminal areas (of all airlines) closer to Grand Central Parkway; that doesn't make room of an additional runway, but it does make room for much more efficient taxiways, which should alleviate a lot of the congestion and back-up prior to take-offs.


I think you are right. Delta needs to invest in the terminal redevelopment because taxi delays are atrocious at LGA. Not just takeoff, but also taxi times to the gate. When the airport is all backed up, like where there are thunderstorms in the summer limiting takeoff volume, airplanes backup everywhere. There isn't enough taxi space so incoming airplanes can take 30-45 minutes to reach their gate because they have to wait in the queue for departures when it extends to the terminals.

The new configuration will improve ground congestion, which will have a direct impact on Delta's operation. 30 minutes of taxi time on inbound flights kills any hope of an ontime departure and just exacerbates delays and misconnections.

A user asked why Can't fix IAD. Well despite being a terrible terminal, it doesn't impact the operation. A new terminal won't change on time performance since IAD is near the top in that category already. IAD may have a dump for a terminal, but as far as connecting in the hubs in the Northeast, it is the best hub in my opinion because it doesn't have flow control issues like DCA PHL LGA EWR JFK or BOS.
 
commavia
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:53 pm

jfklganyc wrote:
I was gonna say. My inside info has another airline(s) at the MAT in the near future.


"The near future." Meaning prior to these new terminals being completed in the early 2020s? Wow.

jfklganyc wrote:
Benefits DL to be solely in C/D, AA to be consolidated and smaller airlines to be at MAT


:checkmark: Seems like a master "reshuffle" would be a win-win for a lot of carriers.

I do find the conspicuous presence of that "s" at the end of the word "airline" above to be interesting - do you believe there will be more than one operator at MAT? Maybe JetBlue plus Alaska and/or Frontier?
 
wjcandee
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 1:57 pm

Anybody who thinks that moving the Shuttles to the current DL terminals is in any way an improvement is mistaken. The MAT makes the Shuttle a civilized experience, and DL can roll out perks in that building that make it special. I know BOS is now at the regular terminals, which is too bad, but happens I guess because of connections at LGA for BOS pax.
 
commavia
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 2:39 pm

wjcandee wrote:
Anybody who thinks that moving the Shuttles to the current DL terminals is in any way an improvement is mistaken. The MAT makes the Shuttle a civilized experience, and DL can roll out perks in that building that make it special. I know BOS is now at the regular terminals, which is too bad, but happens I guess because of connections at LGA for BOS pax.


The question becomes whether or not any O&D share and/or pricing negative from moving to arguably inferior (less "civilized") terminal space is offset by a connecting share and/or pricing positive from making connections easier and more efficient. Relative to AA, it's hard to see much hit given that AA's BOS/DCA/ORD flights operate from less "civilized" terminals, and even if JetBlue were hypothetically running BOS out of the MAT, that doesn't seem all that disastrous since, as said, Delta doesn't run BOS out of there, either, anymore.
 
ldvaviation
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:34 pm

commavia wrote:

jfklganyc wrote:
Benefits DL to be solely in C/D, AA to be consolidated and smaller airlines to be at MAT


:checkmark: Seems like a master "reshuffle" would be a win-win for a lot of carriers.


It always made sense from a financial standpoint for LGA Gateway partners to want AA to be the anchor tenant of the new CTB. It mitigates the risk.

Plus, AA will have a bigger need for the ancillary spaces (i.e., club and office space) the terminal will include.
 
commavia
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:38 pm

ldvaviation wrote:
It always made sense from a financial standpoint for LGA Gateway partners to want AA to be the anchor tenant of the new CTB. It mitigates the risk.


:checkmark:

Indeed. AA would of course be the anchor tenant of the new B seeing as it's already the CTB's largest user - even before the consolidation of the LUS operation.

ldvaviation wrote:
Plus, AA will have a bigger need for the ancillary spaces (i.e., club and office space) the terminal will include.


Yes. The preliminary renderings and design drawings I remember seeing from 12-18 months ago showed space for two lounges - if it does, in fact, end up being two, I'd presume probably one for AA (will need to be very large for the combined operation) and one combined club for United/Air Canada.
 
wv399
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:33 pm

I hope the Amex Centurion Lounge is staying!
 
PIEAvantiP180
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:22 pm

wv399 wrote:
I hope the Amex Centurion Lounge is staying!


I work for AmEx centurion travel and everything I've heard so far is that a new lounge will be built in the new non DL operated terminal. All our Plat and Cent cards have access to DL lounges as long as they are flying on a DL flight that day.
 
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jfklganyc
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:12 pm

commavia wrote:
jfklganyc wrote:
I was gonna say. My inside info has another airline(s) at the MAT in the near future.


"The near future." Meaning prior to these new terminals being completed in the early 2020s? Wow.

jfklganyc wrote:
Benefits DL to be solely in C/D, AA to be consolidated and smaller airlines to be at MAT


:checkmark: Seems like a master "reshuffle" would be a win-win for a lot of carriers.

I do find the conspicuous presence of that "s" at the end of the word "airline" above to be interesting - do you believe there will be more than one operator at MAT? Maybe JetBlue plus Alaska and/or Frontier?



None of those airlines need the MAT for themselves. I would expect a mix there.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:25 pm

Polot wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
EWR's catchment area will decrease as LGA's grows.... a fuzzy line moves westward over Manhattan.


LGA is already preferred over EWR/JFK in Manhattan. Its fuzzy line will never significantly go west across the Hudson though. Getting to LGA from New Jersey is a pain in the ass since it requires going completely across the city. Nice terminals won't change that headache.


Agree. My point was about Manhattan, not NJ. May I should have written "a fuzzy line moves southward over Manhattan". A better terminal and shorter ground delays at LGA would pull travelers south of, say 14th St., away from EWR.
 
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LoftleidirDC8
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:32 am

Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:28 pm

When the project was announced the video showed the MAT as a possible location for a sick for high speed fairy to Manhattan. It would be a great option but may have been just marketing. Is the planned hotel still in play? They also mentioned an air side people mover?
 
tphuang
Posts: 3386
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:21 pm

LoftleidirDC8 wrote:
When the project was announced the video showed the MAT as a possible location for a sick for high speed fairy to Manhattan. It would be a great option but may have been just marketing. Is the planned hotel still in play? They also mentioned an air side people mover?

o com'on, you are talking about New York here and building stuff on top of LGA. DL will need to put up a lot more than 3.4 billion to get all the items mentioned here.
DL is using the same strategy that NW used to build its gorgeous DTW terminal – manage the construction itself. With managing the construction, DL has the ability to control costs and the timeline better which could reduce DL’s long-term costs at LGA. DL is using the same strategy on a smaller scale at LAX.

The Central Terminal will be rebuilt with similar or higher costs; because DL will control all of its own terminal, it can manage the renovation itself. The Port Authority is glad to have DAL assume responsibility for the project.

You will find that $3.4 billion don't go that far at LGA airport. They spent $2 billion at JFK and I still don't think the terminal 4 looks good at all. Prices have only gone up since then.
DL continues to want the perimeter rule removed or at least relaxed. While the current level of congestion makes that impossible right now, paying for all of the new facilities requires pushing more passengers thru them means increasing the number of destinations which can be served which will increase the size of aircraft that can be used. The push to relax the perimeter rule isn’t going away and there is no need to protect JFK any longer. The Port Authority has every incentive to allow legacy carriers to use larger aircraft because it will reduce the cost for lower cost carriers for whom the new terminal would significantly reduce their ability to compete at LGA.

lol, only a DL fanboy would believe this. Nothing stops DL from using bigger jet now. They just chose to use regional jets. The way to have less regional jet usage is to give those slots to airlines who don't have regional jets. But legacies will obviously never do that.
 
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tlecam
Posts: 1453
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 1:38 pm

Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:50 pm

tphuang wrote:
LoftleidirDC8 wrote:
When the project was announced the video showed the MAT as a possible location for a sick for high speed fairy to Manhattan. It would be a great option but may have been just marketing. Is the planned hotel still in play? They also mentioned an air side people mover?

o com'on, you are talking about New York here and building stuff on top of LGA. DL will need to put up a lot more than 3.4 billion to get all the items mentioned here.



??? Delta's not paying for the hotel or the high speed ferry? Their portion of the LGA redevelopment is focused on Terminal C and D.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6073
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:03 am

tphuang wrote:
Nothing stops DL from using bigger jet now. They just chose to use regional jets. The way to have less regional jet usage is to give those slots to airlines who don't have regional jets. But legacies will obviously never do that.


Nothing but economics, you mean. If the DOT insisted on larger planes - say all mainline - destination counts would drop and frequencies would drop. Since LGA is Manhattan's close in, short distance airport, your direction would have quite the pathological outcome.

OTOH, look at the change in avg gauge from US Airways' ownership of those LGA slots to DL today.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3386
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:16 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
Nothing stops DL from using bigger jet now. They just chose to use regional jets. The way to have less regional jet usage is to give those slots to airlines who don't have regional jets. But legacies will obviously never do that.


Nothing but economics, you mean. If the DOT insisted on larger planes - say all mainline - destination counts would drop and frequencies would drop. Since LGA is Manhattan's close in, short distance airport, your direction would have quite the pathological outcome.

OTOH, look at the change in avg gauge from US Airways' ownership of those LGA slots to DL today.

Right and none of that will change with terminal improvements. Which was the original poster's contention. Clearly any investment here isn't made with the main intention of up gauging. Now I think we will see larger aircraft going forward, but that's from natural growth in New York market.
 
tphuang
Posts: 3386
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:19 am

tlecam wrote:
tphuang wrote:
LoftleidirDC8 wrote:
When the project was announced the video showed the MAT as a possible location for a sick for high speed fairy to Manhattan. It would be a great option but may have been just marketing. Is the planned hotel still in play? They also mentioned an air side people mover?

o com'on, you are talking about New York here and building stuff on top of LGA. DL will need to put up a lot more than 3.4 billion to get all the items mentioned here.



??? Delta's not paying for the hotel or the high speed ferry? Their portion of the LGA redevelopment is focused on Terminal C and D.

I was simply responding to original poster asking about hotel and high speed ferry and air side people mover. None of which I think will happen.
 
werdywerd
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:40 am

Re: DL will fund LGA terminal project without Goldman

Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:36 am

It's awesome seeing the people discussing the Marine Air Terminal after I just had a Conference Call about the changes coming this fall at work lol. Someone hit the nail on the head already about who is getting the MAT.

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