AirbusMDCFAN
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Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:53 pm

Link/Source: https://worldairlinenews.com/2017/07/20 ... norwegian/

"Norwegian Air Shuttle (Norwegian.com) has started the process of “Americanizing” the tails of some of its newest aircraft despite the on-going pushback by U.S. majors and unions of their expanding lower-cost service to the United States."

"Norwegian has announced Benjamin Franklin as its first American tailfin hero. The inventor and statesman, who was often called the “first American” because of his tireless campaigning to unify the colonies, will adorn the airline’s newest Boeing 737 MAX aircraft."

Wonder which other famous Americans will adorn the tails of Norwegians 737MAX fleet, and A321LR fleet
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 12:05 am

Very cool! Everyone in America has Ben Franklin as one of their favorite Americans in history. I can see George Washington and Abraham Lincoln on one. Jesse Owens would get my vote too, also John Wayne.
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Aptivaboy
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:03 am

The Wrights. Neil Armstrong. Al Shepard.
 
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mooseofspruce
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 1:19 am

I usually thought it was only a matter of time, especially with all their expansion to the US to mirror their expansion in non-Scandinavian countries where individuals from Spain, Ireland, and the UK also got the tail hero treatment.

Ben Franklin has to be one of the most solid choices for introducing Americans.
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QXAS
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:34 am

Would someone like Eisenhower or Patton or FDR, an American who was instrumental in the liberation of Western Europe be a good fit for the MAX (the 737 does a lot of Western European flying) or would that be in poor taste? I'm asking specifically the European community on the forum but anyone can give input, afterall, we don't have the little flags by our usernames anymore, that's a little touch from the old site I miss. Ditto on Armstrong and the Wrights.
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:37 am

Lindbergh, Edison, Einstein, Earhart
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:47 am

QXAS wrote:
Would someone like Eisenhower or Patton or FDR, an American who was instrumental in the liberation of Western Europe be a good fit for the MAX (the 737 does a lot of Western European flying) or would that be in poor taste? I'm asking specifically the European community on the forum but anyone can give input, afterall, we don't have the little flags by our usernames anymore, that's a little touch from the old site I miss. Ditto on Armstrong and the Wrights.


Well for now the MAX aircraft are only operating TATL.
 
superbizzy73
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:47 am

Speaking of the Wrights...are there any Norwegian tails with two people on there? Also, how about William Boeing on a tail?
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:30 am

redzeppelin wrote:
Lindbergh, Edison, Einstein, Earhart

Earhart had something to do with what would eventually become Northeast Airlines, which was later bought by Delta. :old:
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:37 am

QXAS wrote:
Would someone like Eisenhower or Patton or FDR, an American who was instrumental in the liberation of Western Europe be a good fit for the MAX (the 737 does a lot of Western European flying) or would that be in poor taste? I'm asking specifically the European community on the forum but anyone can give input, afterall, we don't have the little flags by our usernames anymore, that's a little touch from the old site I miss. Ditto on Armstrong and the Wrights.

FDR would be a very good choice. Eisenhower as well not so sure about Patton though as many wouldn't have a clue who he is. They could do famous Presidents. JFK would be a good choice.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:39 am

Wouldn't a Ben Franklin themed airplane might attract lightning?
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:43 am

Amelia Earnhardt would be splendid and very fitting as well.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:27 pm

Confuscius wrote:
Wouldn't a Ben Franklin themed airplane might attract lightning?


I was more so thinking the Ben Franklin five and dime stores... (yes nickel and dimed). Ben Franklin is also known for the quote.. "A penny saved is a penny earned."
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:36 pm

The topic of this thread is Norwegian painting Ben Franklin on the tail of an aircraft. Please keep this thread on topic. If you'd like to debate history, our Non Aviation Forum is the perfect place for such discussion.

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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:21 pm

If EDI/MEM comes to pass, I'd love to see Elvis or BB King.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:23 am

I'm surprised Norwegian hasn't put any of the members of Ah-ha on any of it's tails. My vote for Americans, of coarse Abe and George, but Chuck Yeager would be epic! :thumbsup:
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:53 am

Maybe Charles Lindbergh to stick with the theme of Aviation we have going with Amelia Earhart and Chuck Yeager.
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:59 am

AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
Link/Source: https://worldairlinenews.com/2017/07/20 ... norwegian/

"Norwegian Air Shuttle (Norwegian.com) has started the process of “Americanizing” the tails of some of its newest aircraft despite the on-going pushback by U.S. majors and unions of their expanding lower-cost service to the United States."


Why are the majors and unions up in arms over their expansion into the US? Isn't it good competition-wise that we get some lower fares to Europe?
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:22 am

ADrum23 wrote:
AirbusMDCFAN wrote:
Link/Source: https://worldairlinenews.com/2017/07/20 ... norwegian/

"Norwegian Air Shuttle (Norwegian.com) has started the process of “Americanizing” the tails of some of its newest aircraft despite the on-going pushback by U.S. majors and unions of their expanding lower-cost service to the United States."


Why are the majors and unions up in arms over their expansion into the US? Isn't it good competition-wise that we get some lower fares to Europe?


They disagree with you, they like getting 1200 to 1600 bucks from folks in Birmingham and Tulsa for a trip across the pond.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:26 am

Does this mean Norwegian is coming to PHL? :) Anyway, I bet there are some intellectual property rights with some of the other suggestions, that the airline has to be careful with.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:28 am

If Norwegian offers service to MPS they'd do well to put Garrison Keillor on a tail.
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:22 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Why are the majors and unions up in arms over their expansion into the US? Isn't it good competition-wise that we get some lower fares to Europe?

I think the concern mostly lies in Norwegian's use of a flag of convenience. If permitted, it creates precedent that could permanently alter the way the airline industry does business, much like it has the cruise ship industry. Without taking that into account, Norwegian's US operations are of little concern to US carriers, nor European carriers like BA or LH who operate extensive TATL service. Norwegian's footprint is clearly growing, but they're not a threat when taken at face value just as G4 isn't a threat to the US3 — they generally compete for different customers. However, if the use of a flag of convenience goes unchallenged, then it opens the door to new carriers competing on different terms. This is the concern among the US3 and their respective unions. It's not a nationalist/protectionist thing, nor is it ostensibly being done to stifle competition.

Norwegian and their fans argue that their staff are compensated adequately and they utilize a large number of US crews being paid competitive wages, all of which seems to be true, as far as I can tell. The counter to that argument is that things could easily change down the road, including the potential for sourcing cheaper labor, likely from Asia. I haven't seen indications of Norwegian's intent to do this on US flights, but they do utilize them in their Asian network, so the allegation isn't entirely off-base.

I'm not trying to drag things too off-topic here, but I thought it was important to give some background as to why Norwegian is a contentious issue. At the very least, my hope is that utilizing the 737MAX TATL will push some boundaries and open up new opportunities for other carriers as well. The future 797 will undoubtedly be more impactful, but I would like to see the US3 expand outside of their traditional networks in response to Norwegian.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:59 am

As a Brit and someone who is familiar with the person in question I'm just curious but do Americans actually use the name Ben Franklin rather than the full name as in Benjamin Franklin, for such an important person in American history surely Benjamin is more appropriate.
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Polot
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:40 am

Cunard wrote:
As a Brit and someone who is familiar with the person in question I'm just curious but do Americans actually use the name Ben Franklin rather than the full name as in Benjamin Franklin, for such an important person in American history surely Benjamin is more appropriate.

It's very common in the US to just refer to him as Ben Franklin. It is not seen as disrespectful or inappropriate as he is one of the founding founders.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:00 pm

Charles Lindbergh, no thanks.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:43 pm

Cunard wrote:
As a Brit and someone who is familiar with the person in question I'm just curious but do Americans actually use the name Ben Franklin rather than the full name as in Benjamin Franklin, for such an important person in American history surely Benjamin is more appropriate.

Most Americans associate the name with the fact that he's on the $100 bill. Because of that, his name is used more frequently than other founding fathers, and therefore often shortened from Benjamin to Ben. It's not seen as disrespecting his legacy at all. I don't think name shortening is generally seen as a negative thing here, it's just part of the culture.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:54 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Most Americans associate the name with the fact that he's on the $100 bill. Because of that, his name is used more frequently than other founding fathers, and therefore often shortened from Benjamin to Ben.


Ironically $100 is referred to more often as "Benjamins" and not "Bens." I'd argue that most people associate him with flying a kite with a key tied on the string during a storm to study electricity, and since that is usually taught when students are fairly young (often more than partially to warn them of the dangers of lightening during storms...) he is frequently referred to has Ben instead of the more formal Benjamin.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:01 pm

Harriett Tubman, MLK would both be great choices as well. Ben Franklin is a perfect start though.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:26 pm

Cunard wrote:
As a Brit and someone who is familiar with the person in question I'm just curious but do Americans actually use the name Ben Franklin rather than the full name as in Benjamin Franklin, for such an important person in American history surely Benjamin is more appropriate.


Personally, I say Ben Franklin myself, but anyone who knows history in the U.S. will know who you're talking about. Whether or not it's strictly appropriate and respectful is up for debate.

Theodore Roosevelt for example. He's commonly referred to as "Teddy Roosevelt", or simply "Teddy" around here :)
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:32 pm

Benjamin Franklin is a great place to start! I would also vouch for:

Abraham Lincoln
Sojourner Truth
The Wrights
Martin Luther King Jr.
Charles Lindburgh
Amelia Earhart
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:30 pm

Nice! Ben Franklin has always been my favorite founding father- I'm sure he would have been an extremely interesting person to meet. Good choice for a first tail. I vote for Clarence 'Kelley' Johnson, the man responsible for Lockhhed's famous Skunk Works and the Electra, Constellation, P-38, U-2, and SR71, among many others. Someone who contributed so much to aviation deserves to be in their tail lineup. Also, he was an ethnic Swede, so he ties in nicely with Norwegian's Scandinavian roots! He was a native Michigander, so maybe this could be done if they ever start service to Detroit.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:33 pm

Ben Franklin is a very good start but as they continue I would hope to see some diversity from just aviation such as:
a) Hank Aaron
b) Lewis and Clark - a duo on the tail would be cool - perhaps one on each side!
c) Neil Armstrong or Alan Shepard (still aviation I guess)
d) Thomas Edison
e) Henry Ford

Everyone has their .02 but it would be interesting to be on the deciding committee or be the person responsible in choosing. By the way who does do the choosing? Anyone know?
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:09 pm

^You know what would be hysterical? If DY put Henry Ford on their tail and didn't even serve DTW, which they won't for a long time.
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:31 pm

BobPatterson wrote:
If Norwegian offers service to MPS they'd do well to put Garrison Keillor on a tail.


or Prince.

How about Willie Nelson on the tail of the first 787 to land in AUS next spring :)
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:45 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
Benjamin Franklin is a great place to start! I would also vouch for:

Abraham Lincoln
Sojourner Truth
The Wrights
Martin Luther King Jr.
Charles Lindburgh
Amelia Earhart

Alaska already has Lincoln on their tail so it might get confusing...

:duck:
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:54 pm

Boeing778X wrote:
Benjamin Franklin is a great place to start! I would also vouch for:

Abraham Lincoln
Sojourner Truth
The Wrights
Martin Luther King Jr.
Charles Lindburgh
Amelia Earhart

Well, it turns out Sojourner Truth will indeed be on a tail, presumably EI-FYE.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases ... 95880.html
http://www.financial-news.co.uk/42549/2 ... 731111900/

Norwegian has announced its first black and first American female tailfin hero, Sojourner Truth, the company said.

The image of the notable abolitionist and activist will be featured on the tailfin of the airline´s next Boeing 737 MAX 8 aircraft. The Sojourner Truth aircraft, the second in the airline´s American hero series, will take flight to the United States in a few weeks.

Born Isabella Baumfree in Upstate New York, the former slave changed her name to Sojourner Truth in 1843. She gave numerous speeches throughout her life and was recognized as a great orator for her ability to capture the crowd with her accounts of what she endured while enslaved.

In 1851, Truth delivered remarks about slavery and women´s rights at the Ohio Women´s Rights Convention that later became known as the “Ain´t I a Woman” speech.
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739er
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:57 pm

How about just flying the flag of Norway, and maybe Ireland on the tail since Norwegian Air is NOT in any way an American air carrier. After all, United, Delta and American don't need gimmicky tail schemes to convince Europeans that they are something they are not.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:21 pm

739er wrote:
How about just flying the flag of Norway, and maybe Ireland on the tail since Norwegian Air is NOT in any way an American air carrier. After all, United, Delta and American don't need gimmicky tail schemes to convince Europeans that they are something they are not.


Obviously, you don't get the point here.
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739er
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:41 pm

BlueSky1976 wrote:
739er wrote:
How about just flying the flag of Norway, and maybe Ireland on the tail since Norwegian Air is NOT in any way an American air carrier. After all, United, Delta and American don't need gimmicky tail schemes to convince Europeans that they are something they are not.


Obviously, you don't get the point here.


Actually, as a 20 year veteran of one of the aforementioned US carriers,....I DO!
For me, it's not about the cutesy tail scheme of a "flag of convenience" carrier trying to appease the US government/Airlines/flying public of legitimate concerns regarding the circumstances with which Norwegian takes advantage of the US/EU bilateral aviation agreement. It's about tens of thousands of US airline workers being able to provide for their families into the future. So, as someone who actually, "has a horse in this race"...I do get it.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:46 pm

Benjamin Franklin seems an appropriate choice. Although he's best remembered as one of America's Founding Fathers, Franklin was also one of America's first diplomats, and as I understand it was something of a celebrity in Europe in his day. So it seems fitting for his image to be on a plane traveling between the US and Europe.

BobPatterson wrote:
If Norwegian offers service to MPS they'd do well to put Garrison Keillor on a tail.


I'm guessing that was a typo, but in one of Keillor's "News from Lake Wobegon" stories there's a bit about someone's remains that were supposed to go to MSP but get misrouted to MPS. Since we don't have the mouseover tips anymore I have no idea if MPS actually exists as an airport in real life, but in the story is was Midway Pacific Station.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:18 pm

Because "it's all about the Benjamin's"...
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:23 pm

atcsundevil wrote:
Cunard wrote:
As a Brit and someone who is familiar with the person in question I'm just curious but do Americans actually use the name Ben Franklin rather than the full name as in Benjamin Franklin, for such an important person in American history surely Benjamin is more appropriate.

Most Americans associate the name with the fact that he's on the $100 bill. Because of that, his name is used more frequently than other founding fathers, and therefore often shortened from Benjamin to Ben. It's not seen as disrespecting his legacy at all. I don't think name shortening is generally seen as a negative thing here, it's just part of the culture.


The aircraft is painted with Benjamin, though, just to be clear.
 
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:25 pm

739er wrote:
BlueSky1976 wrote:
739er wrote:
How about just flying the flag of Norway, and maybe Ireland on the tail since Norwegian Air is NOT in any way an American air carrier. After all, United, Delta and American don't need gimmicky tail schemes to convince Europeans that they are something they are not.


Obviously, you don't get the point here.


Actually, as a 20 year veteran of one of the aforementioned US carriers,....I DO!
For me, it's not about the cutesy tail scheme of a "flag of convenience" carrier trying to appease the US government/Airlines/flying public of legitimate concerns regarding the circumstances with which Norwegian takes advantage of the US/EU bilateral aviation agreement. It's about tens of thousands of US airline workers being able to provide for their families into the future. So, as someone who actually, "has a horse in this race"...I do get it.


So would you propose then that IAG also do the same (multiple carriers in different regions held by one company)? Or EasyJet, with multiple AOCs? Or Ryanair and their AOCs? Or OpenSkies/British Airways as a French flagged carrier? Or all of the Latin American carriers with multiple AOCs (including Azul's newest, in Uruguay)?

Let's be clear - this isn't about a threat to the future of US aviation. It's a threat to unsustainably high fares and the US carriers are just ticked they didn't think of it first. As United's CEO said himself, Norwegian "is being clever. And we can compete with clever." Note, clever does not equal illegal.

I also assume now that your union will be arguing against SAS since they are establishing an Irish subsidiary, too? And that you don't use Facebook or Apple since they, too, as American companies have established holdings in Ireland and other countries for tax-saving purposes?
 
739er
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:05 pm

JBLUA320 wrote:
739er wrote:
BlueSky1976 wrote:

Obviously, you don't get the point here.


Actually, as a 20 year veteran of one of the aforementioned US carriers,....I DO!
For me, it's not about the cutesy tail scheme of a "flag of convenience" carrier trying to appease the US government/Airlines/flying public of legitimate concerns regarding the circumstances with which Norwegian takes advantage of the US/EU bilateral aviation agreement. It's about tens of thousands of US airline workers being able to provide for their families into the future. So, as someone who actually, "has a horse in this race"...I do get it.


So would you propose then that IAG also do the same (multiple carriers in different regions held by one company)? Or EasyJet, with multiple AOCs? Or Ryanair and their AOCs? Or OpenSkies/British Airways as a French flagged carrier? Or all of the Latin American carriers with multiple AOCs (including Azul's newest, in Uruguay)?

Let's be clear - this isn't about a threat to the future of US aviation. It's a threat to unsustainably high fares and the US carriers are just ticked they didn't think of it first. As United's CEO said himself, Norwegian "is being clever. And we can compete with clever." Note, clever does not equal illegal.

I also assume now that your union will be arguing against SAS since they are establishing an Irish subsidiary, too? And that you don't use Facebook or Apple since they, too, as American companies have established holdings in Ireland and other countries for tax-saving purposes?


Well JBLUA320 I see your point...And yes, Norwegian is but one of the multiple threats facing the livelihoods of the employees of your nation's 3 largest International flag carriers. If driving down fares on transatlantic routes is what you're most concerned with then go ahead and support the discount foreign airline of your choice. There's plenty to choose from. Also...judging from your JBLUA320 call sign I'm pretty sure you don't have a horse in this race either. Unless of course your airline someday grows across the Atlantic. Then maybe you can walk in my shoes. Heck, if I were a B6 employee, I'm guessing I too wouldn't give a rat's a$$ about these foreign threats that the "US3" face either.
 
WaywardMemphian
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Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:13 pm

739er wrote:
JBLUA320 wrote:
739er wrote:

Actually, as a 20 year veteran of one of the aforementioned US carriers,....I DO!
For me, it's not about the cutesy tail scheme of a "flag of convenience" carrier trying to appease the US government/Airlines/flying public of legitimate concerns regarding the circumstances with which Norwegian takes advantage of the US/EU bilateral aviation agreement. It's about tens of thousands of US airline workers being able to provide for their families into the future. So, as someone who actually, "has a horse in this race"...I do get it.


So would you propose then that IAG also do the same (multiple carriers in different regions held by one company)? Or EasyJet, with multiple AOCs? Or Ryanair and their AOCs? Or OpenSkies/British Airways as a French flagged carrier? Or all of the Latin American carriers with multiple AOCs (including Azul's newest, in Uruguay)?

Let's be clear - this isn't about a threat to the future of US aviation. It's a threat to unsustainably high fares and the US carriers are just ticked they didn't think of it first. As United's CEO said himself, Norwegian "is being clever. And we can compete with clever." Note, clever does not equal illegal.

I also assume now that your union will be arguing against SAS since they are establishing an Irish subsidiary, too? And that you don't use Facebook or Apple since they, too, as American companies have established holdings in Ireland and other countries for tax-saving purposes?


Well JBLUA320 I see your point...And yes, Norwegian is but one of the multiple threats facing the livelihoods of the employees of your nation's 3 largest International flag carriers. If driving down fares on transatlantic routes is what you're most concerned with then go ahead and support the discount foreign airline of your choice. There's plenty to choose from. Also...judging from your JBLUA320 call sign I'm pretty sure you don't have a horse in this race either. Unless of course your airline someday grows across the Atlantic. Then maybe you can walk in my shoes. Heck, if I were a B6 employee, I'm guessing I too wouldn't give a rat's a$$ about these foreign threats that the "US3" face either.


Hear's the deal, My Wife and I together make a little less than 100,000 a year. We we good with our money and at age 45, own our home out right and carry no car payments or credit debt that accrues interest. If Norwegian happens to come to a place like Memphis(doubtful, I know, but still Kjos has mentioned it on several occassions) and My wife and I want to get away for vacation from anywhere of 4 days to even 2 weeks and Norwegian is pricing a flight to Dublin the same as Or even cheaper than a Delta nonstop to LA out of MEM and we have our global entry, why wouldn't we fly to Ireland instead. Forget the insane amount Delta wants to connect to Dublin, I'm choosing between a Norwegian flight and a domestic flight. There's the real danger. If you're a captain with some years and pulling down what some of the Fed Ex Pilots I know are pulling down, why should I give two farts about your feelings. I don't want to hear about how tough it was back in the day at a regional, I worked 3rd shift at chrome wheel plating plant paying my way through college at 6 to 9hrs a semester. Taking what I could afford too. And... at the same or less pay as a regional first officer made that we hear here suffer so bad. Pilots are no better than any production worker in my book, therefore no more special as said production worker. It's an occupation, no more, no less. You boycott all the places that offshored their jobs? Otherwise, I have no sympathy for you. That 3rd shift job I had in college is in Mexico now. You complain about Norwegian and how it hurts American pilots, yet they buy American assembled metal to expand into America while Delta shuns the 787 and takes the 350.
Forgive me if the whole flags of convince thing doesn't play much for me.

What happens if Ryanair or Easyjet gets their hands on Alitalia long haul metal and costs TATL to FCO in half?
 
aeroguest
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:45 am

Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:15 pm

[/photoid][/quote]

Actually, as a 20 year veteran of one of the aforementioned US carriers,....I DO!
For me, it's not about the cutesy tail scheme of a "flag of convenience" carrier trying to appease the US government/Airlines/flying public of legitimate concerns regarding the circumstances with which Norwegian takes advantage of the US/EU bilateral aviation agreement. It's about tens of thousands of US airline workers being able to provide for their families into the future. [/quote]

Not to drag this off topic, but would someone give me a quick summary of what the EU and US eventually agreed upon. From what I understand, they implemented more safety policies, environmental regulations, etc.. If this is true, why wouldn't all airlines flying into the US (or EU) have to abide by these same regulations. From what I gather, this was not a deal between airline corporations within these governments, but rather with the governments themselves.
 
JBLUA320
Posts: 3075
Joined: Mon May 27, 2002 8:51 am

Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:26 am

739er wrote:
JBLUA320 wrote:
739er wrote:

Actually, as a 20 year veteran of one of the aforementioned US carriers,....I DO!
For me, it's not about the cutesy tail scheme of a "flag of convenience" carrier trying to appease the US government/Airlines/flying public of legitimate concerns regarding the circumstances with which Norwegian takes advantage of the US/EU bilateral aviation agreement. It's about tens of thousands of US airline workers being able to provide for their families into the future. So, as someone who actually, "has a horse in this race"...I do get it.


So would you propose then that IAG also do the same (multiple carriers in different regions held by one company)? Or EasyJet, with multiple AOCs? Or Ryanair and their AOCs? Or OpenSkies/British Airways as a French flagged carrier? Or all of the Latin American carriers with multiple AOCs (including Azul's newest, in Uruguay)?

Let's be clear - this isn't about a threat to the future of US aviation. It's a threat to unsustainably high fares and the US carriers are just ticked they didn't think of it first. As United's CEO said himself, Norwegian "is being clever. And we can compete with clever." Note, clever does not equal illegal.

I also assume now that your union will be arguing against SAS since they are establishing an Irish subsidiary, too? And that you don't use Facebook or Apple since they, too, as American companies have established holdings in Ireland and other countries for tax-saving purposes?


Well JBLUA320 I see your point...And yes, Norwegian is but one of the multiple threats facing the livelihoods of the employees of your nation's 3 largest International flag carriers. If driving down fares on transatlantic routes is what you're most concerned with then go ahead and support the discount foreign airline of your choice. There's plenty to choose from. Also...judging from your JBLUA320 call sign I'm pretty sure you don't have a horse in this race either. Unless of course your airline someday grows across the Atlantic. Then maybe you can walk in my shoes. Heck, if I were a B6 employee, I'm guessing I too wouldn't give a rat's a$$ about these foreign threats that the "US3" face either.



You know nothing about where or for whom I work (and yes it's in the industry) but no, it's not JBLU and trust, I very much have a horse in this race. Many horses.
What I read from your post is that you think the American public should choose to fly the US3 (regardless of cost) because nobody else, including the non-US3 American carriers, cares about the sustainability of the US3's business model(s).

I hate to oversimplify it, but that's called business. And if that's really what you believe, then I'd go on further to say that it's your line of thinking that has gotten your carriers into this problem in the first place.
 
739er
Posts: 59
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 1:53 am

Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:42 am

Fair enough Wayward and JBLUA320...I knew that debating the negative effects of Norwegian on this forum would be an absolute waste of my time. I'm also fully aware that the majority of the traveling public, like you, couldn't care less about job security at your nation's legacy carriers, nor of the decades of hard work and experience with which we have provided you the safest air transportation system in the world. After all, it truly is... "all about the Benjamins" isn't it? Good luck...you get what you pay for.
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1217
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

Re: Ben Franklin to adorn the tail of a Norwegian 737 MAX

Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:21 am

739er wrote:
Fair enough Wayward and JBLUA320...I knew that debating the negative effects of Norwegian on this forum would be an absolute waste of my time. I'm also fully aware that the majority of the traveling public, like you, couldn't care less about the decades of hard work and experience with which your nation's legacy carriers have provided you with the safest air transportation system in the world. After all, it truly is, "all about the Benjamins" isn't it? Good luck...


I enjoyed decades of being fleeced by Northwest and then Particularly by Delta at Memphis. It's always been about the Benjamins for what is now the US3 and pilots as well and yet they were always losing money somehow.

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