ADrum23
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AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:15 pm

So AA is the biggest airline in the world, yet, it has the fewest destinations out of the big three legacy carriers in the US (AA, UA and DL). Why doesn't AA travel to Africa, the Middle East, Russia, India, Oceania, etc?

And will they ever expand to include some of those areas?
 
MLIAA
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:26 pm

Two big reasons: 1. AA is the most profitable airline in the world. They are great at making profitable business decisions, and flying to Russia, Africa, and most of the places you name will not make money for AA. And 2.: AA has some of the best joint ventures (JL, BA, IB, AY) and codeshares (until recently, QR and EY, QF, CX, RJ...) in the world. What AA's network doesn't reach, their partners do so very well.

Size isn't everything in this business. Money is.
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777klm
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:32 pm

AA does fly to Oceania: AKL and SYD
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Boeing778X
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:52 pm

It doesn't appear you count American Eagle in your info.

Count Eagle, American, contrary to your post name, has the most of any airline, or close to.

And we go to SYD and AKL, which is in Oceania.
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Rdh3e
Posts: 3552
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:54 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
So AA is the biggest airline in the world, yet, it has the fewest destinations out of the big three legacy carriers in the US

I can see you are new, so I'd like to help you early on in this process. Before asking a question, especially one with a somewhat accusatory tone, you should attempt to do at least a little research. In this case, you are 100% incorrect.

AA serves more destinations than any other US airline.

Airline:.....AA....DL....UA....WN
TTL.........344...334...330 ..101
DOM.......233...232...215...85
LAT..........85.....54.....59....16
ATL.........18......33.....27.....0
PAC.........8.......15.....29.....0

Now if you want to narrow your query a little bit we could have a more meaningful conversation.

ADrum23 wrote:
Why doesn't AA travel to Africa,

Neither does UA, there just isn't a lot of good traffic to Africa, and AA's hubs are not in areas with diasporas or corporate ties that would warrant non-stop flights.

ADrum23 wrote:
the Middle East

Aside from Israel, there is almost no reason for any US carrier to fly there. Very little O&D demand and what there is is low yield due to the excess capacity of the ME3. For Israel itself it seems there are many excuses dating back to (I believe TWA bankruptcy) where AA may have some financial liabilities there that would reactivate if they returned. This one is a little more gray area.

ADrum23 wrote:
Russia,

Why would they? Russia's economy is in shambles and Oil - the main driver of the Russian economy - is at a low and stable level.

ADrum23 wrote:
India,

Same reason DL doesn't. ME3 competition drives the fares down super low. UA is able to sustain due to the particular mix of diaspora and business at EWR.
ADrum23 wrote:
Oceania, etc?

They do fly to there, so not sure about the question.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:57 pm

AA doesn't fly to Russia because there is no money in those routes. Russia (let's keep it to US-Moscow) is heavy on the VFR and less business driven, and that is unlikely to change any time soon. American did fly ORD-DME for a time in the mid-2000s and the route was hugely unprofitable. Same with India. AA had an ORD-DEL route that was axed shortly after or right around the time the airline filed for Chapter 11 in 2013. It wasn't profitable. American does fly to Australia and to New Zealand (LAX-SYD, LAX-AKL). The US to Middle East routes are dominated by the ME3 and that's unlikely to change any time soon. They offer an arguably better product and can move a lot of people to and from for a lot less than AA can, and so AA (and DL and UA) don't bother with it.
 
ADrum23
Topic Author
Posts: 1789
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:05 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
So AA is the biggest airline in the world, yet, it has the fewest destinations out of the big three legacy carriers in the US

I can see you are new, so I'd like to help you early on in this process. Before asking a question, especially one with a somewhat accusatory tone, you should attempt to do at least a little research. In this case, you are 100% incorrect.

AA serves more destinations than any other US airline.

Airline:.....AA....DL....UA....WN
TTL.........344...334...330 ..101
DOM.......233...232...215...85
LAT..........85.....54.....59....16
ATL.........18......33.....27.....0
PAC.........8.......15.....29.....0

Now if you want to narrow your query a little bit we could have a more meaningful conversation.

ADrum23 wrote:
Why doesn't AA travel to Africa,

Neither does UA, there just isn't a lot of good traffic to Africa, and AA's hubs are not in areas with diasporas or corporate ties that would warrant non-stop flights.

ADrum23 wrote:
the Middle East

Aside from Israel, there is almost no reason for any US carrier to fly there. Very little O&D demand and what there is is low yield due to the excess capacity of the ME3. For Israel itself it seems there are many excuses dating back to (I believe TWA bankruptcy) where AA may have some financial liabilities there that would reactivate if they returned. This one is a little more gray area.

ADrum23 wrote:
Russia,

Why would they? Russia's economy is in shambles and Oil - the main driver of the Russian economy - is at a low and stable level.

ADrum23 wrote:
India,

Same reason DL doesn't. ME3 competition drives the fares down super low. UA is able to sustain due to the particular mix of diaspora and business at EWR.
ADrum23 wrote:
Oceania, etc?

They do fly to there, so not sure about the question.


It was not an accusatory question, and I apologize if it came off that way to you. What I meant was, it seems AA has the fewest international destinations (overseas) of the big three US legacy carriers, and I was wondering why.
 
Rdh3e
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:41 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
. What I meant was, it seems AA has the fewest international destinations (overseas).

So Latin/South America doesn't count?
 
ADrum23
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:43 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
. What I meant was, it seems AA has the fewest international destinations (overseas).

So Latin/South America doesn't count?


Notice I said overseas. Latin/South America is still in the Western Hemisphere.
 
Cubsrule
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 8:53 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Rdh3e wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
. What I meant was, it seems AA has the fewest international destinations (overseas).

So Latin/South America doesn't count?


Notice I said overseas. Latin/South America is still in the Western Hemisphere.


Why do we count STR but not SCL?
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Atlwarrior
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:10 pm

MLIAA wrote:
Two big reasons: 1. AA is the most profitable airline in the world. They are great at making profitable business decisions, and flying to Russia, Africa, and most of the places you name will not make money for AA. And 2.: AA has some of the best joint ventures (JL, BA, IB, AY) and codeshares (until recently, QR and EY, QF, CX, RJ...) in the world. What AA's network doesn't reach, their partners do so very well.

Size isn't everything in this business. Money is.


I thought Delta was the most profitable airline in the USA for past few years.
 
gonnagetbumpy
Posts: 65
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:51 pm

Atlwarrior wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
Two big reasons: 1. AA is the most profitable airline in the world. They are great at making profitable business decisions, and flying to Russia, Africa, and most of the places you name will not make money for AA. And 2.: AA has some of the best joint ventures (JL, BA, IB, AY) and codeshares (until recently, QR and EY, QF, CX, RJ...) in the world. What AA's network doesn't reach, their partners do so very well.

Size isn't everything in this business. Money is.


I thought Delta was the most profitable airline in the USA for past few years.

Delta is the most profitable. This post was incorrect.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:17 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
So AA is the biggest airline in the world, yet, it has the fewest destinations out of the big three legacy carriers in the US

I can see you are new, so I'd like to help you early on in this process. Before asking a question, especially one with a somewhat accusatory tone, you should attempt to do at least a little research. In this case, you are 100% incorrect.

AA serves more destinations than any other US airline.

Airline:.....AA....DL....UA....WN
TTL.........344...334...330 ..101
DOM.......233...232...215...85
LAT..........85.....54.....59....16
ATL.........18......33.....27.....0
PAC.........8.......15.....29.....0

Now if you want to narrow your query a little bit we could have a more meaningful conversation.

ADrum23 wrote:
Why doesn't AA travel to Africa,

Neither does UA, there just isn't a lot of good traffic to Africa, and AA's hubs are not in areas with diasporas or corporate ties that would warrant non-stop flights.

ADrum23 wrote:
the Middle East

Aside from Israel, there is almost no reason for any US carrier to fly there. Very little O&D demand and what there is is low yield due to the excess capacity of the ME3. For Israel itself it seems there are many excuses dating back to (I believe TWA bankruptcy) where AA may have some financial liabilities there that would reactivate if they returned. This one is a little more gray area.

ADrum23 wrote:
Russia,

Why would they? Russia's economy is in shambles and Oil - the main driver of the Russian economy - is at a low and stable level.

ADrum23 wrote:
India,

Same reason DL doesn't. ME3 competition drives the fares down super low. UA is able to sustain due to the particular mix of diaspora and business at EWR.
ADrum23 wrote:
Oceania, etc?

They do fly to there, so not sure about the question.

Yes AA has an Amazing network. DFW is an amazing hub. It seems as if the huge regional operations we're ignored. Why? I want to travel either direct or with frequency.

Lightsaber
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GalaxyFlyer
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:32 pm

I'm stuck on Latin/South America not overseas. Why not?

GF
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3552
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:51 pm

Rdh3e wrote:
AA serves more destinations than any other US airline.

Airline:.....AA....DL....UA....WN
TTL.........344...334...330 ..101
DOM.......233...232...215...85
LAT..........85.....54.....59....16
ATL.........18......33.....27.....0
PAC.........8.......15.....29.....0



Here is the same table but for destinations that are unique among the big 4 US carriers. Pretty easy to see that it's AA to Latin, DL to Europe, and UA to Pacific in terms of relative amount of "adventurism" of adding smaller / secondary destinations.
Airline:....AA.....DL.....UA.....WN
TTL.......57.....44......44........0
DOM.....34.....31......18........0
LAT.......22.......1........7........0
ATL........0......12.......5.........0
PAC.......1........0......14........0

I should also say that these tables both reflect July 2017 with no minimum departure level.

*UA's Pacific unique count is higher due to the island hopper.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 121
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:49 am

gonnagetbumpy wrote:
Atlwarrior wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
Two big reasons: 1. AA is the most profitable airline in the world. They are great at making profitable business decisions, and flying to Russia, Africa, and most of the places you name will not make money for AA. And 2.: AA has some of the best joint ventures (JL, BA, IB, AY) and codeshares (until recently, QR and EY, QF, CX, RJ...) in the world. What AA's network doesn't reach, their partners do so very well.

Size isn't everything in this business. Money is.


I thought Delta was the most profitable airline in the USA for past few years.

Delta is the most profitable. This post was incorrect.


There are many ways to measure it, and both AA and DL claim it. From 2007-2016, DL was most profitable, but from 2012-2016, AA was more profitable. Up until the completion of the AA-US merger, DL had it.

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SexyAdonis
Posts: 61
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:01 am

ADrum23 wrote:
So AA is the biggest airline in the world, yet, it has the fewest destinations out of the big three legacy carriers in the US (AA, UA and DL). Why doesn't AA travel to Africa, the Middle East, Russia, India, Oceania, etc?

And will they ever expand to include some of those areas?


Actually as it has already been mentioned above, we do serve Oceania with:

1) Our daily Boeing 777-300ER operating on the LAX/SYD/LAX route (going to Boeing 787-9 as of 05 November 2017)
2) Our daily Boeing 787-8 operating from LAX/AKL/LAX
3) Our daily codeshare services with our sister QANTAS (QF) on the LAX/BNE/LAX and LAX/MEL/LAX routes
4) Our daily codeshare service with Air Tahiti Nui (TN) on the LAX/PPT/LAX route

In addition as already mentioned we have operated in the past both ORD/DME/ORD and ORD/DEL/ORD using our Boeing 777-200ER fleet. Both of these markets did not generate the yields to sustain the services and consequently were dropped.

Africa is actually a continent that is not completely out of the equation. Although we currently use British Airways network in order to feed the routes to/from London and the former British colonies, we keep a continued close eye on the Florida - South Africa market. Back in the mid-90s we used to codeshare with South African Airways (SA) in the CPT/MIA/CPT Boeing 747-400 service. A Miami (MIA) - Johannesburg (JNB) service feeding into British Airways (Comair) would be the way forward with the right aircraft and a less volatile South African economy. In addition, MIA being at the souther point of the USA provides the ideal hub for onward connections to the places like LAX, DFW, ORD.

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TVNWZ
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:07 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I'm stuck on Latin/South America not overseas. Why not?

GF


Because you do not have to fly over any seas?
 
uberflieger
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:36 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Notice I said overseas. Latin/South America is still in the Western Hemisphere.

'Overseas' is not synonymous for Eastern Hemisphere from a US perspective. Its most common use is 'foreign' / 'abroad' and may, but often doesn't include a destination 'over the seas', which BTW is very much the case flying to the Caribbean, Central & South America.

Welcome to Airliners. :smile:
 
ADrum23
Topic Author
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:48 am

It appears I completely butchered this question and I apologize for that. The point of this question is actually me inquiring about why AA serves little to no destinations in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Southeast Asia, India, etc, when both UA and DL do (even if it is just seasonal). I forgot AA does serve Oceania via LAX, and I understand AA has a large network here in the US.

I should have phrased the question, "Why is there a lack of AA destinations in Africa, the Middle East, Asia, etc?"
Last edited by ADrum23 on Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
ADrum23
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:50 am

uberflieger wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Notice I said overseas. Latin/South America is still in the Western Hemisphere.

'Overseas' is not synonymous for Eastern Hemisphere from a US perspective. Its most common use is 'foreign' / 'abroad' and may, but often doesn't include a destination 'over the seas', which BTW is very much the case flying to the Caribbean, Central & South America.

Welcome to Airliners. :smile:


Fair point. I have just never heard it used in the context of traveling to Central/South America. Every time I have heard the term "going overseas", it always implied to going somewhere in the Eastern Hemisphere (whether it'd be Europe, Asia, Africa, the Middle East, etc).
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:41 am

With todays ATI joint ventures you simply can't just look at 'metal' anymore. A British Airways flight to STR is just as much an American Airlines flight. Seat inventory and pricing is being managed by both operators, therefore you have to include places most IAG airlines, Finnair & JAL serve when evaluating American's network.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 121
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:18 am

ADrum23 wrote:
It appears I completely butchered this question and I apologize for that. The point of this question is actually me inquiring about why AA serves little to no destinations in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Southeast Asia, India, etc, when both UA and DL do (even if it is just seasonal). I forgot AA does serve Oceania via LAX, and I understand AA has a large network here in the US.

I should have phrased the question, "Why is there a lack of AA destinations in Africa, the Middle East, Asia, etc?"


Keep in mind, each legacy carrier typically has a strong suit. UA is stronger in Asia, and thus serves more secondary (non-NRT, PEK, PVG, ICN) routes in Asia, such as SIN, secondary China, and other second-tier Asia like TPE and KIX. Delta favors Europe, and serves cities in Europe that are unique to the US market, such as NCE, PRG, AGP, and KEF.

American's bread and butter is Latin America. AA serves more destinations in Central and South America than any other North American carrier. Places like MVD, CLO, LPB, MAO.. I could list MIA routes to unique destinations all day long.

Whether it's "overseas" or not, American's International stronghold is in Latin America.
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rbavfan
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Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:37 am

Rdh3e wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
So AA is the biggest airline in the world, yet, it has the fewest destinations out of the big three legacy carriers in the US

I can see you are new, so I'd like to help you early on in this process. Before asking a question, especially one with a somewhat accusatory tone, you should attempt to do at least a little research. In this case, you are 100% incorrect.

AA serves more destinations than any other US airline.

Airline:.....AA....DL....UA....WN
TTL.........344...334...330 ..101
DOM.......233...232...215...85
LAT..........85.....54.....59....16
ATL.........18......33.....27.....0
PAC.........8.......15.....29.....0

Now if you want to narrow your query a little bit we could have a more meaningful conversation.
ADrum23 wrote:
Why doesn't AA travel to Africa,

Neither does UA, there just isn't a lot of good traffic to Africa, and AA's hubs are not in areas with diasporas or corporate ties that would warrant non-stop flights.

ADrum23 wrote:
the Middle East

Aside from Israel, there is almost no reason for any US carrier to fly there. Very little O&D demand and what there is is low yield due to the excess capacity of the ME3. For Israel itself it seems there are many excuses dating back to (I believe TWA bankruptcy) where AA may have some financial liabilities there that would reactivate if they returned. This one is a little more gray area.

ADrum23 wrote:
Russia,

Why would they? Russia's economy is in shambles and Oil - the main driver of the Russian economy - is at a low and stable level.

ADrum23 wrote:
India,


Same reason DL doesn't. ME3 competition drives the fares down super low. UA is able to sustain due to the particular mix of diaspora and business at EWR.
ADrum23 wrote:
Oceania, etc?

They do fly to there, so not sure about the question.



You cannot count AA regional airlines in the mix & not count the 9 regional airlines flying for UA & 6 for Delta in the totals. You became accusatory with your response to him. Let see the figures for each with all the duplicate cities removed & they not the differences. After all UA owns a hell of a lot more RJs than AA does.
 
aeropix
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2005 2:08 pm

Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:38 am

GalaxyFlyer wrote:
I'm stuck on Latin/South America not overseas. Why not?

GF


Because, like Canada and Mexico, it is connected by land to the USA, hence not "over" any "seas". Transatlantc and Transpacific, now that's "over" some big "seas". Hence International does not necessarily = overseas.

Instead of being pedantic, why not try to get the gist of what the OP is trying to ask, rather than needling him with such stuff? He clearly cares about transatlantic and transpacific destinations and if that's his thing who are we to judge?
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3552
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: AA lack of destinations?

Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:54 pm

rbavfan wrote:



You cannot count AA regional airlines in the mix & not count the 9 regional airlines flying for UA & 6 for Delta in the totals. You became accusatory with your response to him. Let see the figures for each with all the duplicate cities removed & they not the differences. After all UA owns a hell of a lot more RJs than AA does.

This is everything for all four. I would never remove the regional flying for anyone. Where did I indicate that?

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