dubaiamman243
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Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:38 am

Etihad, a UAE national carrier has submitted a non-binding offer to the Italian carrier, Alitalia, regarding a partial or full takeover. The Etihad was among other companies including Delta Airlines, British Airways, Lufthansa, Easyjet and Ryanair.

If no buyers are found, Alitalia administrators have no other option other than winding up with a potential loss of over 20,000 job.

Source: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/content/ ... r-alitalia
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TWA772LR
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:42 am

Don't they already own Alitalia?
When wasn't America great?


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dubaiamman243
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:45 am

TWA772LR wrote:
Don't they already own Alitalia?


They own 49% only.
The next airline CEO :crossfingers:
 
kimimm19
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:04 am

Better them than any of the mentioned above.
 
P1aneMad
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:06 am

Any info on how a non EU entity will get more than a 49% stake in an EU airline?
 
Andy33
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:12 am

For sure, there will be a major outcry from Lufthansa, AF/KLM, and Ryanair if the rules are changed or bent to allow this. IAG and easyJet might be less aggressive as it could create a loophole which they could exploit if Brexit comes up with ownership rules that hinder them.
 
scotron11
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:43 am

Kinda confusing...article says deadline was 6pm (I assume today) for all interested to submit non-binding offers, then goes on to say they have until Occtober to submit binding offers? What is the difference? Or is that the 6 month timeline on the bridge loan of the 600euros?
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:53 am

scotron11 wrote:
Kinda confusing...article says deadline was 6pm (I assume today) for all interested to submit non-binding offers, then goes on to say they have until Occtober to submit binding offers? What is the difference? Or is that the 6 month timeline on the bridge loan of the 600euros?


I would say the binding part.
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jbs2886
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:06 am

dubaiamman243 wrote:
Etihad, a UAE national carrier has submitted a non-binding offer to the Italian carrier, Alitalia, regarding a partial or full takeover. The Etihad was among other companies including Delta Airlines, British Airways, Lufthansa, Easyjet and Ryanair.

If no buyers are found, Alitalia administrators have no other option other than winding up with a potential loss of over 20,000 job.

Source: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/content/ ... r-alitalia


You are misstating the article. Only Ryanair and Etihad are confirmed 10 bidders. The rest were of the 18 airlines granted access to financials that may have made bids.
 
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readytotaxi
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:08 am

Etihad must have really DEEP pockets to go down this path, their 49% hasn't really been a winner for them.
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B777LRF
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:11 am

There is currently no way around the 49% ownership rules. The only way Etihad could circumvent that, would be by starting an EU based company, with directors of EU nationality, and prove to the authorities the BoD have full autonomy without interference from Abu Dhabi. Good luck with that.
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:50 am

readytotaxi wrote:
Etihad must have really DEEP pockets to go down this path, their 49% hasn't really been a winner for them.


Yeah, but after investing so much into AZ, they're committed to seeing it succeed at whatever cost it takes. Any money pumped into AZ is better used to finish the job than to write off EY's previous efforts. I think if this goes through, we may actually see AZ return to profitability.
 
ME720
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:33 am

Non EU entity can not own the majority shares of an EU airline..
Better any of the above than EY, an airline that never made profits to start with, relying on subsidies from the Abu Dhabi government in a manner that is neither transparent nor logical..subsidies that might end when that government decides that investing in an airline no longer is useful for its agenda. LH is a good option, along with shaving off excess workforce at AZ. LH managed to turn around SN, another lost case 10 years ago!
 
Andy33
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:13 am

ME720 wrote:
LH managed to turn around SN, another lost case 10 years ago!

But they completely failed to turn round British Midland despite ending up with 100% ownership, and the remains ended up in the hands of BA, who then integrated the mainline operations, closed down the unprofitable LCC, and sold on the regional subsidiary.
 
jmchevallier
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:30 am

scotron11 wrote:
Kinda confusing...article says deadline was 6pm (I assume today) for all interested to submit non-binding offers, then goes on to say they have until Occtober to submit binding offers? What is the difference? Or is that the 6 month timeline on the bridge loan of the 600euros?


Remittal of non-binding offer could be a way to get a shortlist of 2 or 3 bidders invited to submit a binding offer.
 
MiddleEastMike
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:31 am

It'll be interesting to see the outcome of this scenario.

The high ups here will be in the ear of the EU, desperately trying to persuade them to remove, or create a loophole in the non-EU ownership problem so they can pick up the remaining shares.

Is it going to happen? It wouldn't surprise me!

The current economic state of Italy and saving a national airline will be of first hand importance, but if Etihad have full ownership, then where does it leave it as a 'National Airline'?

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Olddog
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:11 am

I doubt that Germany and France agree to a change of ownership rules....
When UK was in it wanted a lot of opt-outs, now it is out it wants opt-ins
 
Geoff1947
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:16 am

[code][/code]
dubaiamman243 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Don't they already own Alitalia?


They own 49% only.


That's all they can own by EU regulations.

Geoff
 
sf260
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:34 am

ME720 wrote:
LH managed to turn around SN, another lost case 10 years ago!

You have to give credit where it is due, and in the case of SN, it's definitely not all LH. Most of the turnaround was driven by internal force and ideas (that were eventually copied by other LH group airlines).
 
scotron11
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:40 am

[quote="B777LRF"]There is currently no way around the 49% ownership rules. The only way Etihad could circumvent that, would be by starting an EU based company, with directors of EU nationality, and prove to the authorities the BoD have full autonomy without interference from Abu Dhabi. Good luck with that.[]

49% or a 100%, doesn't really matter....it was the unions that got AZ to where it is today. Maybe better to let AZ die, then start again from scratch and do away with all those jobs for life!
 
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OA940
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:16 am

I guess they have some money they don't want.
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strfyr51
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:30 am

scotron11 wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
There is currently no way around the 49% ownership rules. The only way Etihad could circumvent that, would be by starting an EU based company, with directors of EU nationality, and prove to the authorities the BoD have full autonomy without interference from Abu Dhabi. Good luck with that.[]

49% or a 100%, doesn't really matter....it was the unions that got AZ to where it is today. Maybe better to let AZ die, then start again from scratch and do away with all those jobs for life!



If the liquidate the airline wouldn't they lose their Route authorities?? You can't end an entity with the history of Alitalia then start a NEW airline and do what Alitalia was doing face up. And?
You're STILL going to need those Same People and you can't "Mandate" they change their Mindset. You can try and outsource their jobs, and if you Do? All you have is compliance, You will NOT have committed team players. Big companies that wind up with BIG UNIONS? Didn't get there by being committed to their people. There was a management failure somewhere.
Look at FEDEX. They're non-Union, They don't play games with Pay or Hiring. They do what they have to do to keep their people committed and they prosper because of it.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:38 am

Why would anyone want Alitalia? The service has much improved but the company is a basket case.
 
NZ321
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:44 am

Surely Italy needs an airline. Given how messed up Alitalia is, and how long it has gone on haemorrhaging money, why wouldn't they choose to liquidate and start a new airline with new terms and conditions, new business model. Surely that's a better chance for the existing employees. Loose their jobs yes but likely many gain a new job with a new company that has a better chance of staying around. Just my 2 cents worth.
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:16 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
I think if this goes through, we may actually see AZ return to profitability.


That's never going to happen. Any attempt to reorganise Alitalia to make it profitable again just won't get passed the unions. They just go on strike because it doesn't suit them and Alitalia is never going to be profitable.

Only way to make Alitalia profitable again is to let it go bankrupt, fire all of it's employees and start over with only the ones that are not part of a union and are willing to agree to the conditions the unions don't agree with.

strfyr51 wrote:
If the liquidate the airline wouldn't they lose their Route authorities?? You can't end an entity with the history of Alitalia then start a NEW airline and do what Alitalia was doing face up. And?
You're STILL going to need those Same People and you can't "Mandate" they change their Mindset. You can try and outsource their jobs, and if you Do? All you have is compliance, You will NOT have committed team players. Big companies that wind up with BIG UNIONS? Didn't get there by being committed to their people. There was a management failure somewhere.
Look at FEDEX. They're non-Union, They don't play games with Pay or Hiring. They do what they have to do to keep their people committed and they prosper because of it.


Yes, they would lose their route authorities and they'd have to start all over again to get them back. In some cases they won't get them back.

The new Alitalia would start off much smaller than the old one, so they won't have to hire all of the old staff. They can make a selection and the ones that caused too much trouble in the past (members of the unions) just won't get hired again. Only the ones devoted to the company and willing to work for less money will get hired, the rest can stay unemployed or look for a job elsewhere. That's the only way to make Alitalia profitable again. Sure at the moment they got a lot of staff they want to get rid of but they can't. Bankrupcy would be the perfect excuse to get rid of them.
 
VolvoBus
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:47 pm

How many cans of worms does EY buying the rest of AZ open ?

Michael O'Leary would be my favourite to be first out of the blocks to take this to court,delaying everything under AZ is even deeper under water than it is.

How many countries still have bi-laterals with Italy ? I would imagine they limit Italian operators to Italian majority ownership, so could legitimately deny access to AZ.

The same applies to countries with bi-laterals with the EU. They probably have similar restrictions on ownership. Who would bet against the USA saying 'If you unilaterally revise our Open Skies agreement, so can we. Bye-bye 5th freedom flights.'

Ultimately, EY could end up having an even less attractive purchase in AZ, together will reducing their own revenue and upsetting other airlines that use 5th Freedom.
 
planespotter20
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:48 pm

Of all the airlines mentioned, I think the best bets are IAG, LH, DL, and EY (in no particular order). If DL or EY can’t get full control because of the rule, then so be it. In my opinion if Lufthansa bought in to AZ and got complete control something could get done, but as others have stated, the unions are a major obstacle in the way. Also, if LH buys into them, could they combine Air Dolomiti with Alitalia? Air Dolomiti is much nicer (and smaller) than Alitalia in my opinion, and it seems well run (no research has been done on it by me). If those two merge, could they scrap the AZ’s union dealio and take Air Dolomiti’s? That could also give them the option to shrink the crap out of AZ, cut the jobs, and build from the profitable routes up.

If none of that is possible, then I think liquidation and then starting up small as a company under EY or LH or whatever would give the best outcome.

Ryanair would be a waste. They would just get rid of Alitalia completely, take the planes, sell them, take the slots, use them, and order more 737’s.
 
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par13del
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:54 pm

B777LRF wrote:
There is currently no way around the 49% ownership rules. The only way Etihad could circumvent that, would be by starting an EU based company, with directors of EU nationality, and prove to the authorities the BoD have full autonomy without interference from Abu Dhabi. Good luck with that.

Ok, so the USA is not the only country preventing full foreign ownership? I thought EU members were critical of this in the USA, why if the same applies in the EU?
 
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:02 pm

par13del wrote:
B777LRF wrote:
There is currently no way around the 49% ownership rules. The only way Etihad could circumvent that, would be by starting an EU based company, with directors of EU nationality, and prove to the authorities the BoD have full autonomy without interference from Abu Dhabi. Good luck with that.

Ok, so the USA is not the only country preventing full foreign ownership? I thought EU members were critical of this in the USA, why if the same applies in the EU?


EU rules (allowing 49%) are more generous than US rules (allowing 25%).
 
UltimoTiger777
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:00 pm

Ahhhh so Italy is now stuck between obeying EU rules or letting Alitalia fold completely. Get the popcorn!

VolvoBus wrote:
The same applies to countries with bi-laterals with the EU. They probably have similar restrictions on ownership. Who would bet against the USA saying 'If you unilaterally revise our Open Skies agreement, so can we. Bye-bye 5th freedom flights.'


But which part of the EU-US Open Skies agreement prohibits someone buying an EU airline? EU rules prohibit outright non-EU ownership but does this agreement say anything other than the fact that stakes in US carriers are restricted to 25%?

Also, no EU carriers have 5th freedom rights in the US do they?
 
CriticalPoint
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:25 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
Look at FEDEX. They're non-Union,


If you are talking about the pilots they are members of ALPA.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:25 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Ahhhh so Italy is now stuck between obeying EU rules or letting Alitalia fold completely. Get the popcorn!

VolvoBus wrote:
The same applies to countries with bi-laterals with the EU. They probably have similar restrictions on ownership. Who would bet against the USA saying 'If you unilaterally revise our Open Skies agreement, so can we. Bye-bye 5th freedom flights.'


But which part of the EU-US Open Skies agreement prohibits someone buying an EU airline? EU rules prohibit outright non-EU ownership but does this agreement say anything other than the fact that stakes in US carriers are restricted to 25%?

Also, no EU carriers have 5th freedom rights in the US do they?

Italy has been stuck in that conundrum for years, always finding a way to bail out AZ with an "investment"... Most of us have run out of popcorn already.

TN and AF are examples of EU airlines with 5th freedom flights via the US on their CDG-LAX-PPT flights.
 
WWads
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:40 pm

planespotter20 wrote:
Of all the airlines mentioned, I think the best bets are IAG, LH, DL, and EY (in no particular order). If DL or EY can’t get full control because of the rule, then so be it.


There's no way that DL is going to extend itself to rescue AZ. They're already taking risks by acquiring parts of KE and AM. If AZ goes under, DL will simply add a few flights to FCO, and AF/KL would probably add a few flights to AZ-only cities worth servicing. That's about it.
 
LJ
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:48 pm

strfyr51 wrote:
If the liquidate the airline wouldn't they lose their Route authorities?? You can't end an entity with the history of Alitalia then start a NEW airline and do what Alitalia was doing face up. And?You're STILL going to need those Same People and you can't "Mandate" they change their Mindset. You can try and outsource their jobs, and if you Do? All you have is compliance, You will NOT have committed team players. Big companies that wind up with BIG UNIONS? Didn't get there by being committed to their people. There was a management failure somewhere.
Look at FEDEX. They're non-Union, They don't play games with Pay or Hiring. They do what they have to do to keep their people committed and they prosper because of it.


That's not what's going to happen. What will happen is that the winner will set up a new company. This new company wins the right to "buy" the route authorities and the assets it wants. After this has been done, the current AZ will go bankrupt. Other bidders will just want the assets and won't be bothered with setting up a new company. Either way, it's the usual asset stripping.

jmchevallier wrote:
Remittal of non-binding offer could be a way to get a shortlist of 2 or 3 bidders invited to submit a binding offer.


It's the only way to get access to the books. Those who have submitted a non-binding offer are rpobably getting access to even more data to ensure they can make a binding offer.

Andy33 wrote:
IAG and easyJet might be less aggressive as it could create a loophole which they could exploit if Brexit comes up with ownership rules that hinder them.


Why? IAG is a Spanish company and easyJet will soon have an Austrian subsidiary.
 
Andy33
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:20 pm

LJ wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
IAG and easyJet might be less aggressive as it could create a loophole which they could exploit if Brexit comes up with ownership rules that hinder them.


Why? IAG is a Spanish company and easyJet will soon have an Austrian subsidiary.


Because the EU rules don't just cover where the airline is registered, they cover actual ownership.
Although IAG is based in Spain, when it was formed, its stockholders consisted of the existing stockholders of British Airways and Iberia, shares being allocated by a formula. So it had large numbers of British and Spanish stockholders, and still does. But since both Britain and Spain are currently in the EU, this doesn't matter as long as EU shareholders own 51%. But we know QR has bought 20% in the marketplace. If UK investors still own 30%, or other investors from outside the UK and the EU together with the UK investors own 30%, on the day Brexit finally happens, IAG is still an organisation based in Spain but fails the EU max 49% foreign ownership rule.
With easyJet there's something like 35% owned by the Hadj-Iannou family (of Stelios fame). Many of the family have dual UK-Cypriot nationality. The law is silent on whether dual nationality should be counted as EU ownership or foreign ownership - there may need to be a test case. If they are classed as foreign, easyJet has a real ownership problem.
 
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:43 pm

KTPAFlyer wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Etihad must have really DEEP pockets to go down this path, their 49% hasn't really been a winner for them.


Yeah, but after investing so much into AZ, they're committed to seeing it succeed at whatever cost it takes. Any money pumped into AZ is better used to finish the job than to write off EY's previous efforts. I think if this goes through, we may actually see AZ return to profitability.


That really isn't a rational outlook. Etihad is welcome to waste their money any way they want, but some businesses are recognized as basket cases, with no viable way to return to profit, to recover a return on the initial investment, or to make a return on incremental investment. I submit that Alitalia, because of low labor productivity, restrictions on restructuring actions under Italian law, and the strong presence of both successful network carriers and LCCs in Italy, is such a firm.
 
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:10 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
KTPAFlyer wrote:
readytotaxi wrote:
Etihad must have really DEEP pockets to go down this path, their 49% hasn't really been a winner for them.


Yeah, but after investing so much into AZ, they're committed to seeing it succeed at whatever cost it takes. Any money pumped into AZ is better used to finish the job than to write off EY's previous efforts. I think if this goes through, we may actually see AZ return to profitability.


That really isn't a rational outlook. Etihad is welcome to waste their money any way they want, but some businesses are recognized as basket cases, with no viable way to return to profit, to recover a return on the initial investment, or to make a return on incremental investment. I submit that Alitalia, because of low labor productivity, restrictions on restructuring actions under Italian law, and the strong presence of both successful network carriers and LCCs in Italy, is such a firm.

That is the most rational response in recognizing AZ is a basket case. Either it is majorly restructured, or let it fold. If wound down slowly, there would be no disruption to other parts of the Italian economy.

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readytotaxi
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:29 pm

Let it fold. Rise from the ashes a new airline, "Air Italy" or whatever. New labour contracts and reduced routes, less people less planes. The Italian government would want to save face and bankroll the 51% needed, build it up again slowly. Just a thought.
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VolvoBus
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:56 pm

UltimoTiger777 wrote:
Ahhhh so Italy is now stuck between obeying EU rules or letting Alitalia fold completely. Get the popcorn!

VolvoBus wrote:
The same applies to countries with bi-laterals with the EU. They probably have similar restrictions on ownership. Who would bet against the USA saying 'If you unilaterally revise our Open Skies agreement, so can we. Bye-bye 5th freedom flights.'


But which part of the EU-US Open Skies agreement prohibits someone buying an EU airline? EU rules prohibit outright non-EU ownership but does this agreement say anything other than the fact that stakes in US carriers are restricted to 25%?

Also, no EU carriers have 5th freedom rights in the US do they?


I doubt even the US would prevent anyone buying an EU airline, but they probably could (and would) exclude any non-EU majority owned airlines operating under Open Skies.

As I have just proved, the freedoms are not my strong point. What I was intending was the ability of third nation carriers ( read ME3 ) to carry passengers originating in the EU to the US.
 
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 6:58 pm

kimimm19 wrote:
Better them than any of the mentioned above.


Why?
I only turn left when boarding aircraft. Well, mostly. All right, sometimes. OH OKAY - rarely.
 
Flaps
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:04 pm

Just kill the airline and get on with it. AZ is a mess that cannot be fixed. All parties except the workers would be better off for it. Normally I would sympathize with them but they helped do this to themselves.
 
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par13del
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:37 pm

Bostrom wrote:
EU rules (allowing 49%) are more generous than US rules (allowing 25%).

...so based on my read, all that does is get an investor to pony up more money for the same amount of control, which is basically zip, I would feel better with 25% and no control versus 49% and no control.
 
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LTU932
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 pm

I don't think it will happen. This may end up a fiasco similar to the one that almost stopped Virgin America from ever becoming reality. Remember the discussions about foreign ownership rules in the US, which kept SRB from getting more than 25% of the shares and even control over the company? Exactly, it could be the same thing all over again between EY and AZ, although with EU foreign ownership rules. And even if EY creates an EU based holding company with EU nationals running it, just to nominally gain ownership of AZ, I sincerely doubt the EU commission will buy into it. As much as it pains me to say it, AZ is done and unless the Italian government pumps them full with illegal subsidies, it's just a matter of time until they declare bankruptcy.
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LupineChemist
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 7:49 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
UltimoTiger777 wrote:
TN and AF are examples of EU airlines with 5th freedom flights via the US on their CDG-LAX-PPT flights.


That's not 5th freedom. PPT is France.
 
FlyHappy
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Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:03 pm

I can't decide whether EY are idiots or geniuses.
Maybe both.

Regardless, I don't buy into the notion that they have to throw a "hail mary" to try to salvage their initial investment. Just as they are wealthy enough to attempt to operate (if allowed) a long time poor performer in Alitalia , they are also wealthy enough to see their pet project go bust. That won't stop the oil coming out of the ground.
 
sadiqutp
Posts: 279
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 5:05 pm

Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:10 pm

lightsaber wrote:
That is the most rational response in recognizing AZ is a basket case. Either it is majorly restructured, or let it fold. If wound down slowly, there would be no disruption to other parts of the Italian economy.

Lightsaber


I don't disagree with you. I find Etihad's further adventures to be bizarre. However, I am wondering, if Alitalia is really a basket case, why are there other airlines offering to buy it? Is it just a price to pay to enter a new market? Or is it more complicated than that? I understand why other EU are interested, but DL is expressing interest as well !
 
planespotter20
Posts: 174
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:03 pm

Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:11 pm

Flaps wrote:
Just kill the airline and get on with it. AZ is a mess that cannot be fixed. All parties except the workers would be better off for it. Normally I would sympathize with them but they helped do this to themselves.


And then what? Leave Italy, a huge tourist destination and powerful economy, to the LCC’s?

As others have said, Italy is too big to not have a national legacy airline, and that’s why it’s other AZ folds and something similar takes its place, or AZ sticks around forever, flop after flop, but that’s just the way it has it.
 
Flaps
Posts: 1582
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:17 pm

planespotter20 wrote:
Flaps wrote:
Just kill the airline and get on with it. AZ is a mess that cannot be fixed. All parties except the workers would be better off for it. Normally I would sympathize with them but they helped do this to themselves.


And then what? Leave Italy, a huge tourist destination and powerful economy, to the LCC’s?

As others have said, Italy is too big to not have a national legacy airline, and that’s why it’s other AZ folds and something similar takes its place, or AZ sticks around forever, flop after flop, but that’s just the way it has it.


Why not? If that's what the market wants that's what it should get. I don't see why Italy is "too big" not to have a national airline. They have already proven that they neither need one nor can run one. Just let the free market take over and the situation will settle itself. Italy will get what it can support.
 
willenglish
Posts: 41
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:13 pm

Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:18 pm

"If no buyers are found, Alitalia administrators have no other option other than winding up with a potential loss of over 20,000 job."

Lol how can that be true considering they only employ just over half that many people....
 
MalevTU134
Posts: 2188
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Etihad submits an offer for full Alitalia takeover

Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:36 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
UltimoTiger777 wrote:
TN and AF are examples of EU airlines with 5th freedom flights via the US on their CDG-LAX-PPT flights.


That's not 5th freedom. PPT is France.

True, but French Polynesia is not part of the EU (which of course makes my saying TN is a EU airline wrong), so I guess the bilateral is not the same as the US-EU open skies bilateral? If so, then this would make it a 5th freedom. But we're really down to splitting hairs now...

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