Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
77H
Topic Author
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incident

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:06 am

The incident involving UA and a Mother who had told her infant in her lap was posted on the PR Incident thread but an article in Hawaii News Now states she as officially decided to sue.

Link below:
http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsno ... d=F1vpD9E9

In my opinion this lawsuit is obnoxious. UA apologized, refunded both her ticket and her son's as well as provided lounge access and an upgrade to business class on their return leg. She claims these tokens of good will were disingenuous and that she is suing to ensure something like this doesn't happen to anyone else.

Personally her reasons for suing seem disingenuous. She is suing for financial compensation for herself so this doesn't happen to others? While I can imagine that her 3.5 hour trip was made inconvenient and more uncomfortable I believe UA has more than tried to atone for the mistake. Both fares were fully refunded amounting to ~$2,000 according to the passenger when the story broke. She was also provided with lounge access and a complimentary upgrade from BOS to HNL. That upgrade alone for two passengers was probably another $2K.

I don't argue that UA staff didn't make a mistake in this incident but the mother mentioned that she did not immediately speak up at the gate when the issue first presented itself. All the passenger has claimed is that when she brought it to the attention of the flight attendant she was ignored. I think the key here is when did she finally speak up, once the door was closed, during taxi, after airborne.

Her lawyer also sounds like a piece of work. Sounds like an ambulance chaser that probably riled her up and talked her into suing hoping to take a sizeable chunk of the settlement. While I know UA will likely settle out of court I really wish they'd take this head one and counter for legal fees. UA acknowledged and apologized for their mistake, refunded their airfare and provided lounge access and upgrades on their return. Her and her scrappy lawyer are just looking for a quick payout under the half baked guise of championing for the people.

77H
Last edited by atcsundevil on Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited spelling in title
 
ME720
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:19 am

77H wrote:
The incident involving UA and a Mother who had told her infant in her lap was posted on the PR Incident thread but an article in Hawaii News Now states she as officially decided to sue.

Link below:
http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsno ... d=F1vpD9E9

In my opinion this lawsuit is obnoxious. UA apologized, refunded both her ticket and her son's as well as provided lounge access and an upgrade to business class on their return leg. She claims these tokens of good will were disingenuous and that she is suing to ensure something like this doesn't happen to anyone else.

Personally her reasons for suing seem disingenuous. She is suing for financial compensation for herself so this doesn't happen to others? While I can imagine that her 3.5 hour trip was made inconvenient and more uncomfortable I believe UA has more than tried to atone for the mistake. Both fares were fully refunded amounting to ~$2,000 according to the passenger when the story broke. She was also provided with lounge access and a complimentary upgrade from BOS to HNL. That upgrade alone for two passengers was probably another $2K.

I don't argue that UA staff didn't make a mistake in this incident but the mother mentioned that she did not immediately speak up at the gate when the issue first presented itself. All the passenger has claimed is that when she brought it to the attention of the flight attendant she was ignored. I think the key here is when did she finally speak up, once the door was closed, during taxi, after airborne.

Her lawyer also sounds like a piece of work. Sounds like an ambulance chaser that probably riled her up and talked her into suing hoping to take a sizeable chunk of the settlement. While I know UA will likely settle out of court I really wish they'd take this head one and counter for legal fees. UA acknowledged and apologized for their mistake, refunded their airfare and provided lounge access and upgrades on their return. Her and her scrappy lawyer are just looking for a quick payout under the half baked guise of championing for the people.

77H


She probably still felt "abused" even after all the perks and refunds. What happened is horrible, and UA will have to take responsibility. She is right, if the airline is made to pay a huge compensation such a thing will be unlikely to occur again, while if they get away with it by just refunding and bumping her up a travel class.. well, if it happens again, very cheap solution for the airline. On the other hand, I am not sure that UA would have refunded and upgraded her had she not gone public with her ordeal!
 
77H
Topic Author
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:42 am

ME720 wrote:
77H wrote:
The incident involving UA and a Mother who had told her infant in her lap was posted on the PR Incident thread but an article in Hawaii News Now states she as officially decided to sue.

Link below:
http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsno ... d=F1vpD9E9

In my opinion this lawsuit is obnoxious. UA apologized, refunded both her ticket and her son's as well as provided lounge access and an upgrade to business class on their return leg. She claims these tokens of good will were disingenuous and that she is suing to ensure something like this doesn't happen to anyone else.

Personally her reasons for suing seem disingenuous. She is suing for financial compensation for herself so this doesn't happen to others? While I can imagine that her 3.5 hour trip was made inconvenient and more uncomfortable I believe UA has more than tried to atone for the mistake. Both fares were fully refunded amounting to ~$2,000 according to the passenger when the story broke. She was also provided with lounge access and a complimentary upgrade from BOS to HNL. That upgrade alone for two passengers was probably another $2K.

I don't argue that UA staff didn't make a mistake in this incident but the mother mentioned that she did not immediately speak up at the gate when the issue first presented itself. All the passenger has claimed is that when she brought it to the attention of the flight attendant she was ignored. I think the key here is when did she finally speak up, once the door was closed, during taxi, after airborne.

Her lawyer also sounds like a piece of work. Sounds like an ambulance chaser that probably riled her up and talked her into suing hoping to take a sizeable chunk of the settlement. While I know UA will likely settle out of court I really wish they'd take this head one and counter for legal fees. UA acknowledged and apologized for their mistake, refunded their airfare and provided lounge access and upgrades on their return. Her and her scrappy lawyer are just looking for a quick payout under the half baked guise of championing for the people.

77H


She probably still felt "abused" even after all the perks and refunds. What happened is horrible, and UA will have to take responsibility. She is right, if the airline is made to pay a huge compensation such a thing will be unlikely to occur again, while if they get away with it by just refunding and bumping her up a travel class.. well, if it happens again, very cheap solution for the airline. On the other hand, I am not sure that UA would have refunded and upgraded her had she not gone public with her ordeal!


What happened to her was horrible? She had to hold her 2 year, 3 month old child for 3.5 hrs. Uncomfortable and inconvenient, surely, but horrible? Parents traveling with infants up to two years old hold their children on longer flights than IAH to BOS. Growing up my parents held all their children on trips to and from the Midwest to Hawaii and back all the way up to the two year mark. I'm sure they would have done it past two if that was an option instead of paying for a seat.

United admitted to their mistake, apologized for it, compensated her for it and threw in additional perks that cost them money. Lounge access is not free and upgrading her and her son to business class is neither free, nor cheap. UA could have made a lot more selling those seats or upgrading customers with status, a perk mind you that keeps high spender customers loyal.

She admitted to initially not speaking up for her and her son and no article has mentioned when she finally decided to speak up. At that point it may have been too late for any staff to do something about the matter. Doesn't sound like it was brought up when staff initially came back to see if the son was onboard. Sounds like the staff involved assumed it was a lap child which was also their mistake. It could have been cleared up had she vocalized that she paid for a seat for him.

77H
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:13 am

Typical airline apologist you are 77H. How could she have told somebody at the gate? Should she have deboarded about the time the door is closed to tell the gate agent? She buys two tickets with two seats, checks in and boards. The airline than sends a stand by passenger that takes the seat she bought for her child. Why is it her fault that the airline made a mistake while scanning her boarding pas? No reaction from that pax that takes the seat from the child, nor from the F/A she complains to. That F/A seems to have looked on a FAA rule being broken.
 
77H
Topic Author
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:46 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Typical airline apologist you are 77H. How could she have told somebody at the gate? Should she have deboarded about the time the door is closed to tell the gate agent? She buys two tickets with two seats, checks in and boards. The airline than sends a stand by passenger that takes the seat she bought for her child. Why is it her fault that the airline made a mistake while scanning her boarding pas? No reaction from that pax that takes the seat from the child, nor from the F/A she complains to. That F/A seems to have looked on a FAA rule being broken.


I'm not apologizing for the airline. I have said in both posts that the airline made a mistake. It doesn't make me an apologist for expecting an adult woman to take charge of her situation. If she felt the airline staff had the wrong idea or made a mistake she should have spoken up the second the other passenger came to sit in a seat she paid for. People make mistakes. She admitted to not speaking up when the other passenger went to take her seat. If he was a stand by passenger, rev or non-rev he was most likely the last person on the aircraft. She could have pressed the call button and politely explained that her son was over 2 and that she paid for the seat. She admits to not doing that at first and no article I've ever read about this incident states when she finally spoke up to the FA that ignored her.

If she waited until the door closed to say anything it probably too late at that point. If she said something after the aircraft was underway or airborne it's too late. The FA shouldn't have ignored her if that really happened but once the plane pushes back what is the FA to do? Phone the captain and ask him to go back delaying that flight and the flight that was to use the gate next? Should the flight have diverted?

I personally think she should have politely spoken up because I believe most people would, especially us Americans who don't take kindly to inconveniences.

Now that we are on the same page as far as the airline was at fault, question for you. Do you believe that after the airline admitted fault, apologized and refunded both tickets and upgraded them on the return that she should still sue? Or do you think the airline made a good faith effort to put right their mistake ? Do you also believe that in light of all the airline did to apologize that she is truly suing for personal financial compensation because she doesn't want this to happen to anyone else like her and her lawyer claim? Or is she just riding the airline PR train to Paydayville?

77H
 
77H
Topic Author
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:54 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Typical airline apologist you are 77H. How could she have told somebody at the gate? Should she have deboarded about the time the door is closed to tell the gate agent? She buys two tickets with two seats, checks in and boards. The airline than sends a stand by passenger that takes the seat she bought for her child. Why is it her fault that the airline made a mistake while scanning her boarding pas? No reaction from that pax that takes the seat from the child, nor from the F/A she complains to. That F/A seems to have looked on a FAA rule being broken.


P.s. Maybe next time let's try not calling names to someone expressing their personal opinion on a topic. You have a differing opinion, fine. I can respect that. If you want to share your opinions as to why you feel my opinion is wrong I can respect that to. What I don't respect is being called names from an adult hiding behind a keyboard.

77H
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:03 am

77H wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Typical airline apologist you are 77H. How could she have told somebody at the gate? Should she have deboarded about the time the door is closed to tell the gate agent? She buys two tickets with two seats, checks in and boards. The airline than sends a stand by passenger that takes the seat she bought for her child. Why is it her fault that the airline made a mistake while scanning her boarding pas? No reaction from that pax that takes the seat from the child, nor from the F/A she complains to. That F/A seems to have looked on a FAA rule being broken.


I'm not apologizing for the airline. I have said in both posts that the airline made a mistake. It doesn't make me an apologist for expecting an adult woman to take charge of her situation. If she felt the airline staff had the wrong idea or made a mistake she should have spoken up the second the other passenger came to sit in a seat she paid for. People make mistakes. She admitted to not speaking up when the other passenger went to take her seat. If he was a stand by passenger, rev or non-rev he was most likely the last person on the aircraft. She could have pressed the call button and politely explained that her son was over 2 and that she paid for the seat. She admits to not doing that at first and no article I've ever read about this incident states when she finally spoke up to the FA that ignored her.

If she waited until the door closed to say anything it probably too late at that point. If she said something after the aircraft was underway or airborne it's too late. The FA shouldn't have ignored her if that really happened but once the plane pushes back what is the FA to do? Phone the captain and ask him to go back delaying that flight and the flight that was to use the gate next? Should the flight have diverted?

I personally think she should have politely spoken up because I believe most people would, especially us Americans who don't take kindly to inconveniences.

Now that we are on the same page as far as the airline was at fault, question for you. Do you believe that after the airline admitted fault, apologized and refunded both tickets and upgraded them on the return that she should still sue? Or do you think the airline made a good faith effort to put right their mistake ? Do you also believe that in light of all the airline did to apologize that she is truly suing for personal financial compensation because she doesn't want this to happen to anyone else like her and her lawyer claim? Or is she just riding the airline PR train to Paydayville?

77H


After the airline has a history of beating up passengers that take charge of their situation? That action worked better to intimidate passengers than I would have believed.

On one hand here on A.net is complained about that passengers do not follow meekly any strange idea some airline staff gets and on the other hand it is complained about passengers not taking "charge".
What more should she have done than complain to the F/A? Should the F/A not have been taking charge in a situation with two boarding passes for one seat?

Perhaps she is pissed that it took five days for UA to do something about her claim instead of 5 minutes? How often did she have to phone, how long had she to wait on the phone, what was the initial reaction of UA when contacted? Did UA answer e-mails? Did UA do something before she went public?
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:28 am

77H wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Typical airline apologist you are 77H. How could she have told somebody at the gate? Should she have deboarded about the time the door is closed to tell the gate agent? She buys two tickets with two seats, checks in and boards. The airline than sends a stand by passenger that takes the seat she bought for her child. Why is it her fault that the airline made a mistake while scanning her boarding pas? No reaction from that pax that takes the seat from the child, nor from the F/A she complains to. That F/A seems to have looked on a FAA rule being broken.


P.s. Maybe next time let's try not calling names to someone expressing their personal opinion on a topic. You have a differing opinion, fine. I can respect that. If you want to share your opinions as to why you feel my opinion is wrong I can respect that to. What I don't respect is being called names from an adult hiding behind a keyboard.

77H


You are right, I should not.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:03 am

mjoelnir wrote:
77H wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Typical airline apologist you are 77H. How could she have told somebody at the gate? Should she have deboarded about the time the door is closed to tell the gate agent? She buys two tickets with two seats, checks in and boards. The airline than sends a stand by passenger that takes the seat she bought for her child. Why is it her fault that the airline made a mistake while scanning her boarding pas? No reaction from that pax that takes the seat from the child, nor from the F/A she complains to. That F/A seems to have looked on a FAA rule being broken.


P.s. Maybe next time let's try not calling names to someone expressing their personal opinion on a topic. You have a differing opinion, fine. I can respect that. If you want to share your opinions as to why you feel my opinion is wrong I can respect that to. What I don't respect is being called names from an adult hiding behind a keyboard.

77H


You are right, I should not.


But you could answer how you imagine somebody sitting in her seat, shortly before boarding is finished or after boarding is finished, talks to the gate agent about a problem that has come up after she took her seat?
 
ME720
Posts: 183
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:40 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:27 am

77H wrote:
ME720 wrote:
77H wrote:
The incident involving UA and a Mother who had told her infant in her lap was posted on the PR Incident thread but an article in Hawaii News Now states she as officially decided to sue.

Link below:
http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsno ... d=F1vpD9E9

In my opinion this lawsuit is obnoxious. UA apologized, refunded both her ticket and her son's as well as provided lounge access and an upgrade to business class on their return leg. She claims these tokens of good will were disingenuous and that she is suing to ensure something like this doesn't happen to anyone else.

Personally her reasons for suing seem disingenuous. She is suing for financial compensation for herself so this doesn't happen to others? While I can imagine that her 3.5 hour trip was made

inconvenient and more uncomfortable I believe UA has more than tried to atone for the mistake. Both fares were fully refunded amounting to ~$2,000 according to the passenger when the story broke. She was also provided with lounge access and a complimentary upgrade from BOS to HNL. That upgrade alone for two passengers was probably another $2K.

I don't argue that UA staff didn't make a mistake in this incident but the mother mentioned that she did not immediately speak up at the gate when the issue first presented itself. All the passenger has claimed is that when she brought it to the attention of the flight attendant she was ignored. I think the key here is when did she finally speak up, once the door was closed, during taxi, after airborne.

Pathetic reasoning! You probably work for a horrible
Her lawyer also sounds like a piece of work. Sounds like an ambulance chaser that probably riled her up and talked her into suing hoping to take a sizeable chunk of the settlement. While I know UA will likely settle out of court I really wish they'd take this head one and counter for legal fees. UA acknowledged and apologized for their mistake, refunded their airfare and provided lounge access and upgrades on their return. Her and her scrappy lawyer are just looking for a quick payout under the half baked guise of championing for the people.

77H


She probably still felt "abused" even after all the perks and refunds. What happened is horrible, and UA will have to take responsibility. She is right, if the airline is made to pay a huge compensation such a thing will be unlikely to occur again, while if they get away with it by just refunding and bumping her up a travel class.. well, if it happens again, very cheap solution for the airline. On the other hand, I am not sure that UA would have refunded and upgraded her had she not gone public with her ordeal!


What happened to her was horrible? She had to hold her 2 year, 3 month old child for 3.5 hrs. Uncomfortable and inconvenient, surely, but horrible? Parents traveling with infants up to two years old hold their children on longer flights than IAH to BOS. Growing up my parents held all their children on trips to and from the Midwest to Hawaii and back all the way up to the two year mark. I'm sure they would have done it past two if that was an option instead of paying for a seat.

United admitted to their mistake, apologized for it, compensated her for it and threw in additional perks that cost them money. Lounge access is not free and upgrading her and her son to business class is neither free, nor cheap. UA could have made a lot more selling those seats or upgrading customers with status, a perk mind you that keeps high spender customers loyal.

She admitted to initially not speaking up for her and her son and no article has mentioned when she finally decided to speak up. At that point it may have been too late for any staff to do something about the matter. Doesn't sound like it was brought up when staff initially came back to see if the son was onboard. Sounds like the staff involved assumed it was a lap child which was also their mistake. It could have been cleared up had she vocalized that she paid for a seat for him.

77H



She paid for a seat for that child! It is the Job of the airline to realise that that seat was paid for by the infant! They knew it alright, but hoped to get away with abusing that woman and assigning the seat to another paying customer!
Your reasong is pathetic! Not every one is willing to hold their infant for 3 hours! It is an option, but if one is unwilling to do so one purchases a seat, end of matter. The airline knew that that seat is purchased and still assigned it to someone else!
She must sue, and I am sure that the airline will be found at fault; therefore they will most probably settle.
 
User avatar
BoeingVista
Posts: 2060
Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:54 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:30 am

77H wrote:
ME720 wrote:
77H wrote:
The incident involving UA and a Mother who had told her infant in her lap was posted on the PR Incident thread but an article in Hawaii News Now states she as officially decided to sue.

Link below:
http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsno ... d=F1vpD9E9

In my opinion this lawsuit is obnoxious. UA apologized, refunded both her ticket and her son's as well as provided lounge access and an upgrade to business class on their return leg. She claims these tokens of good will were disingenuous and that she is suing to ensure something like this doesn't happen to anyone else.

Personally her reasons for suing seem disingenuous. She is suing for financial compensation for herself so this doesn't happen to others? While I can imagine that her 3.5 hour trip was made inconvenient and more uncomfortable I believe UA has more than tried to atone for the mistake. Both fares were fully refunded amounting to ~$2,000 according to the passenger when the story broke. She was also provided with lounge access and a complimentary upgrade from BOS to HNL. That upgrade alone for two passengers was probably another $2K.

I don't argue that UA staff didn't make a mistake in this incident but the mother mentioned that she did not immediately speak up at the gate when the issue first presented itself. All the passenger has claimed is that when she brought it to the attention of the flight attendant she was ignored. I think the key here is when did she finally speak up, once the door was closed, during taxi, after airborne.

Her lawyer also sounds like a piece of work. Sounds like an ambulance chaser that probably riled her up and talked her into suing hoping to take a sizeable chunk of the settlement. While I know UA will likely settle out of court I really wish they'd take this head one and counter for legal fees. UA acknowledged and apologized for their mistake, refunded their airfare and provided lounge access and upgrades on their return. Her and her scrappy lawyer are just looking for a quick payout under the half baked guise of championing for the people.

77H


She probably still felt "abused" even after all the perks and refunds. What happened is horrible, and UA will have to take responsibility. She is right, if the airline is made to pay a huge compensation such a thing will be unlikely to occur again, while if they get away with it by just refunding and bumping her up a travel class.. well, if it happens again, very cheap solution for the airline. On the other hand, I am not sure that UA would have refunded and upgraded her had she not gone public with her ordeal!


What happened to her was horrible? She had to hold her 2 year, 3 month old child for 3.5 hrs. Uncomfortable and inconvenient, surely, but horrible? Parents traveling with infants up to two years old hold their children on longer flights than IAH to BOS. Growing up my parents held all their children on trips to and from the Midwest to Hawaii and back all the way up to the two year mark. I'm sure they would have done it past two if that was an option instead of paying for a seat.

United admitted to their mistake, apologized for it, compensated her for it and threw in additional perks that cost them money. Lounge access is not free and upgrading her and her son to business class is neither free, nor cheap. UA could have made a lot more selling those seats or upgrading customers with status, a perk mind you that keeps high spender customers loyal.

She admitted to initially not speaking up for her and her son and no article has mentioned when she finally decided to speak up. At that point it may have been too late for any staff to do something about the matter. Doesn't sound like it was brought up when staff initially came back to see if the son was onboard. Sounds like the staff involved assumed it was a lap child which was also their mistake. It could have been cleared up had she vocalized that she paid for a seat for him.

77H


Hang on a minute, UA is being disingenuous and hypocritical here. It insists that all children over two MUST have a purchased seat to travel (a policy that would net it 10's of millions of dollars) but then suddenly when they can sell the seat on for more money it becomes OK for children over two to travel on parents laps, it/s either OK or its not. Its BS and they deserve to be sued.
BV
 
User avatar
Aesma
Posts: 13621
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:14 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:46 am

There is no doubt that the airline made a mistake.

There is also no doubt that such a lawsuit should not happen, or only in a small claims court.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 957
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:10 pm

I'm not a fan of frivolous lawsuits. However, neither am I a fan of corporations misbehaving. It may take a few lawsuits, either taken to a jury verdict or settled out of court, to wake UAL up and ensure that this never happens again. Let me give you an example. At my work, we had a serious pothole in the sidewalk outside of one of our buildings, deep but sloping and easily missed visually if you didn't know to look for it. Did admin fix it? Nope, it was cheaper to ignore the problem and if someone was hurt, to simply let workers comp handle it. Seriously. All of this changed when a visitor fell in it and sued for her medical expenses. I kid you not, there was a paving crew out there the very next day after the legal papers hit. I view UAL the same way. Offering a seat upgrade or a refund or whatever is all well and good, but doesn't actually fix the problem. Rather, the threat of losing money is what changes behaviors. I suspect UAL will offer a reasonable cash settlement, another apology, and a flurry of behind the scenes directives to flight attendants and gate agents will occur to ensure that this (hopefully) never happens again, especially if the passenger who took the boy's seat was a non-rev, as was theorized on this board when the incident first occurred.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2275
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:53 pm

77H wrote:
P.s. Maybe next time let's try not calling names to someone expressing their personal opinion on a topic. You have a differing opinion, fine. I can respect that. If you want to share your opinions as to why you feel my opinion is wrong I can respect that to. What I don't respect is being called names from an adult hiding behind a keyboard.

77H


Well, you did call the lawyer "an ambulance chaser." Hands not very clean.

I would sue too. And, you probably don't have children. I can tell you for sure, a child that size on your lap for that trip was excruciatingly horrible.
 
alfa164
Posts: 3776
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:47 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:02 pm

TVNWZ wrote:
[I can tell you for sure, a child that size on your lap for that trip was excruciatingly horrible.

And, as I understand it, a violation of FAA rules.
I'm going to have a smokin' hot body again!
I have decided to be cremated....
 
MSPNWA
Posts: 3698
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2009 2:48 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:46 pm

Aesma wrote:
There is no doubt that the airline made a mistake.

There is also no doubt that such a lawsuit should not happen, or only in a small claims court.


Absolutely. You can't sue away mistakes. The suit is also ironic coming from her considering her negligence in the event. She's certainly not afraid to take this to the media or court, unlike claming being too afraid to fix it on the airplane.

The only place that UA should have to answer to is the FAA.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:58 pm

I hope that whatever she gets in the settlement has all previous consideration by United deducted.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
WPvsMW
Posts: 2252
Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:01 pm

Reading between the lines, UA refused to pay a settlement of unknown amount, and the suit was filed, whether as leverage to obtain a target settlement, or because the plaintiff does want a record of how the sale of her son's seat was made to be public (and will go to trial, refusing settlement). Collusion to violate several FARs on one extreme, vs. plain negligence on the other extreme, with gross negligence in the middle.
 
CV880
Posts: 1004
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2007 7:56 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:06 pm

How do we know if the child's boarding pass was scanned when She boarded. Did She present it along with Her's? Unanswered questions and I'm no UA fanboy.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1742
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:59 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
After the airline has a history of beating up passengers that take charge of their situation? That action worked better to intimidate passengers than I would have believed.


United doesn't have a "history of beating up passengers" that "take charge of their situation". The Chicago Airport Authority Police Department does - and they didn't see it as someone "taking charge of their situation", rather they likely viewed it as someone that was defiantly refusing to leave the private property of a business that no longer wanted to serve them. Was United right in what they did? Absolutely not. United doesn't have a team of goons that go around beating up their passengers though. They called the airport police to come and remove the passenger. I'm quite sure they didn't ask the police to "rough em up a little on the way out".
 
Blockplus
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2016 3:55 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:59 pm

so, usually if compensation is given a no fault agreement is reached. How much does she have to stand on if she took the upgrade and didnt realize she had just agreed not to sue?
 
User avatar
AirAfreak
Posts: 1010
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:20 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:28 pm

Aptivaboy wrote:
I'm not a fan of frivolous lawsuits. However, neither am I a fan of corporations misbehaving. It may take a few lawsuits, either taken to a jury verdict or settled out of court, to wake UAL up and ensure that this never happens again. Let me give you an example. At my work, we had a serious pothole in the sidewalk outside of one of our buildings, deep but sloping and easily missed visually if you didn't know to look for it. Did admin fix it? Nope, it was cheaper to ignore the problem and if someone was hurt, to simply let workers comp handle it. Seriously. All of this changed when a visitor fell in it and sued for her medical expenses. I kid you not, there was a paving crew out there the very next day after the legal papers hit. I view UAL the same way. Offering a seat upgrade or a refund or whatever is all well and good, but doesn't actually fix the problem. Rather, the threat of losing money is what changes behaviors. I suspect UAL will offer a reasonable cash settlement, another apology, and a flurry of behind the scenes directives to flight attendants and gate agents will occur to ensure that this (hopefully) never happens again, especially if the passenger who took the boy's seat was a non-rev, as was theorized on this board when the incident first occurred.



I agree with you 100%.

It's time to hold the airlines accountable. It's time to make them wake up and pay - frivolous or not. Passengers are finally speaking up. Not everyone can afford to charter their own plane, but at least we now have video recording devices and social media to bring these airlines to the courtrooms for their bad behavior.

Airline loyalty is slowly-diminishing thanks to all the basic things we used to see here in the good ole USA taken away from us year after year. I'm tired of hearing post-9/11 did "this" and post-9/11 did "that!"

There is no excuse for poor treatment of a paying passenger especially for piss-poor planning as in the case of Doctor Dao and the airline staff needing his seat to report to Louisville for duty. If you can afford to pay millions of dollars in airline executive bonuses, then you sure as hell can afford to charter a jet for those Louisville-bound flight attendants and crew or just cancel the damn flight!

Post-9/11 has been a constant excuse to where airport and inflight employees of the U.S.-based airlines have abused their power by taking advantage of these laws imposed by the administration of the Department of Homeland Security and the FAA. It's time for change. It's time to make some noise.

Not all passengers are angels, but I hope this lady wins a cool million just to prove a point. I would rather it her win additional cash compensation versus it going to another greedy airline executive.

It's funny how the tables turn.
Korean Air | Excellence in Flight.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:33 pm

AirAfreak wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
I'm not a fan of frivolous lawsuits. However, neither am I a fan of corporations misbehaving. It may take a few lawsuits, either taken to a jury verdict or settled out of court, to wake UAL up and ensure that this never happens again. Let me give you an example. At my work, we had a serious pothole in the sidewalk outside of one of our buildings, deep but sloping and easily missed visually if you didn't know to look for it. Did admin fix it? Nope, it was cheaper to ignore the problem and if someone was hurt, to simply let workers comp handle it. Seriously. All of this changed when a visitor fell in it and sued for her medical expenses. I kid you not, there was a paving crew out there the very next day after the legal papers hit. I view UAL the same way. Offering a seat upgrade or a refund or whatever is all well and good, but doesn't actually fix the problem. Rather, the threat of losing money is what changes behaviors. I suspect UAL will offer a reasonable cash settlement, another apology, and a flurry of behind the scenes directives to flight attendants and gate agents will occur to ensure that this (hopefully) never happens again, especially if the passenger who took the boy's seat was a non-rev, as was theorized on this board when the incident first occurred.



I agree with you 100%.

It's time to hold the airlines accountable. It's time to make them wake up and pay - frivolous or not. Passengers are finally speaking up. Not everyone can afford to charter their own plane, but at least we now have video recording devices and social media to bring these airlines to the courtrooms for their bad behavior.

Airline loyalty is slowly-diminishing thanks to all the basic things we used to see here in the good ole USA taken away from us year after year. I'm tired of hearing post-9/11 did "this" and post-9/11 did "that!"

There is no excuse for poor treatment of a paying passenger especially for piss-poor planning as in the case of Doctor Dao and the airline staff needing his seat to report to Louisville for duty. If you can afford to pay millions of dollars in airline executive bonuses, then you sure as hell can afford to charter a jet for those Louisville-bound flight attendants and crew or just cancel the damn flight!

Post-9/11 has been a constant excuse to where airport and inflight employees of the U.S.-based airlines have abused their power by taking advantage of these laws imposed by the administration of the Department of Homeland Security and the FAA. It's time for change. It's time to make some noise.

Not all passengers are angels, but I hope this lady wins a cool million just to prove a point. I would rather it her win additional cash compensation versus it going to another greedy airline executive.

It's funny how the tables turn.


I get the picture, but question whether what happened here really is deserving of a lawsuit? A million dollars? After receiving a full refund and then a business class upgrade and an apology? I get that that's peanuts to the airline, but a million dollars is overkill for something like this, imho.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Aptivaboy
Posts: 957
Joined: Fri Jul 15, 2016 3:32 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:46 pm

I personally don't think she'll get much. In a legal sense, what were her actual damages? Inconvenience, and little else. I agree that this shouldn't be a lawsuit and given what UAL already gave her may, indeed, be frivolous. However, I stand by my earlier statement that only the threat of a payout actually changes things, that along with bad PR.

No what will she get? Certainly not a million. Maybe a few thousand, whatever UAL needs to make this go away.
 
User avatar
11725Flyer
Posts: 1410
Joined: Mon May 30, 2016 4:51 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:49 pm

I doubt UA wants this in front of a jury. They'll most likely settle quickly.
 
77H
Topic Author
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:08 pm

AirAfreak wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
I'm not a fan of frivolous lawsuits. However, neither am I a fan of corporations misbehaving. It may take a few lawsuits, either taken to a jury verdict or settled out of court, to wake UAL up and ensure that this never happens again. Let me give you an example. At my work, we had a serious pothole in the sidewalk outside of one of our buildings, deep but sloping and easily missed visually if you didn't know to look for it. Did admin fix it? Nope, it was cheaper to ignore the problem and if someone was hurt, to simply let workers comp handle it. Seriously. All of this changed when a visitor fell in it and sued for her medical expenses. I kid you not, there was a paving crew out there the very next day after the legal papers hit. I view UAL the same way. Offering a seat upgrade or a refund or whatever is all well and good, but doesn't actually fix the problem. Rather, the threat of losing money is what changes behaviors. I suspect UAL will offer a reasonable cash settlement, another apology, and a flurry of behind the scenes directives to flight attendants and gate agents will occur to ensure that this (hopefully) never happens again, especially if the passenger who took the boy's seat was a non-rev, as was theorized on this board when the incident first occurred.



I agree with you 100%.

It's time to hold the airlines accountable. It's time to make them wake up and pay - frivolous or not. Passengers are finally speaking up. Not everyone can afford to charter their own plane, but at least we now have video recording devices and social media to bring these airlines to the courtrooms for their bad behavior.

Airline loyalty is slowly-diminishing thanks to all the basic things we used to see here in the good ole USA taken away from us year after year. I'm tired of hearing post-9/11 did "this" and post-9/11 did "that!"

There is no excuse for poor treatment of a paying passenger especially for piss-poor planning as in the case of Doctor Dao and the airline staff needing his seat to report to Louisville for duty. If you can afford to pay millions of dollars in airline executive bonuses, then you sure as hell can afford to charter a jet for those Louisville-bound flight attendants and crew or just cancel the damn flight!

Post-9/11 has been a constant excuse to where airport and inflight employees of the U.S.-based airlines have abused their power by taking advantage of these laws imposed by the administration of the Department of Homeland Security and the FAA. It's time for change. It's time to make some noise.

Not all passengers are angels, but I hope this lady wins a cool million just to prove a point. I would rather it her win additional cash compensation versus it going to another greedy airline executive.

It's funny how the tables turn.


With that in mind lets hope the airlines start to seek financial compensation for disruptions caused by unruly passengers (like HA) and for damages to aircraft caused by passengers. For instance, a customer breaking an bin while forcing their carry on in the overhead or for children using pens and markers on the tray tables and sidewalls. Or perhaps come after passengers who make an extraordinary mess while on board. I was on a SFO-OGG flight 2 months ago where a lav had to be place inop due to fecal matter smeared all along the sidewalls of the lav. I was the unfortunate passenger who discovered it. I immediately notified the FA. They later became aware of the culprit. Should that customer receive a bill for cleaning and sanitation? The knife cuts both ways.

I'm not sure how much other posters travel, or how much time the spend observing fellow passengers but I travel quite frequently and some of the behaviors I've seen from passengers are quite abhorrent. Common sense, respect and basic decency seem to be left curbside. I always try to be very friendly and polite to airline staff and fellow passengers and I have never had a bad experience on UA or any airline for that matter.

77H
 
User avatar
NeBaNi
Posts: 484
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:45 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:34 pm

I agree the lawsuit is frivolous, but I also agree with the idea of suing United for something like this. IMO, this lawsuit should net very little money for the mother, but United should be fined for allowing a child older than two years old to sit on the mother's lap for the whole flight. That way, United improves its practices so this doesn't happen in the future, the wronged mother gets fairly compensated, the industry improves, and we move on...
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:55 pm

77H wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
Aptivaboy wrote:
I'm not a fan of frivolous lawsuits. However, neither am I a fan of corporations misbehaving. It may take a few lawsuits, either taken to a jury verdict or settled out of court, to wake UAL up and ensure that this never happens again. Let me give you an example. At my work, we had a serious pothole in the sidewalk outside of one of our buildings, deep but sloping and easily missed visually if you didn't know to look for it. Did admin fix it? Nope, it was cheaper to ignore the problem and if someone was hurt, to simply let workers comp handle it. Seriously. All of this changed when a visitor fell in it and sued for her medical expenses. I kid you not, there was a paving crew out there the very next day after the legal papers hit. I view UAL the same way. Offering a seat upgrade or a refund or whatever is all well and good, but doesn't actually fix the problem. Rather, the threat of losing money is what changes behaviors. I suspect UAL will offer a reasonable cash settlement, another apology, and a flurry of behind the scenes directives to flight attendants and gate agents will occur to ensure that this (hopefully) never happens again, especially if the passenger who took the boy's seat was a non-rev, as was theorized on this board when the incident first occurred.



I agree with you 100%.

It's time to hold the airlines accountable. It's time to make them wake up and pay - frivolous or not. Passengers are finally speaking up. Not everyone can afford to charter their own plane, but at least we now have video recording devices and social media to bring these airlines to the courtrooms for their bad behavior.

Airline loyalty is slowly-diminishing thanks to all the basic things we used to see here in the good ole USA taken away from us year after year. I'm tired of hearing post-9/11 did "this" and post-9/11 did "that!"

There is no excuse for poor treatment of a paying passenger especially for piss-poor planning as in the case of Doctor Dao and the airline staff needing his seat to report to Louisville for duty. If you can afford to pay millions of dollars in airline executive bonuses, then you sure as hell can afford to charter a jet for those Louisville-bound flight attendants and crew or just cancel the damn flight!

Post-9/11 has been a constant excuse to where airport and inflight employees of the U.S.-based airlines have abused their power by taking advantage of these laws imposed by the administration of the Department of Homeland Security and the FAA. It's time for change. It's time to make some noise.

Not all passengers are angels, but I hope this lady wins a cool million just to prove a point. I would rather it her win additional cash compensation versus it going to another greedy airline executive.

It's funny how the tables turn.


With that in mind lets hope the airlines start to seek financial compensation for disruptions caused by unruly passengers (like HA) and for damages to aircraft caused by passengers. For instance, a customer breaking an bin while forcing their carry on in the overhead or for children using pens and markers on the tray tables and sidewalls. Or perhaps come after passengers who make an extraordinary mess while on board. I was on a SFO-OGG flight 2 months ago where a lav had to be place inop due to fecal matter smeared all along the sidewalls of the lav. I was the unfortunate passenger who discovered it. I immediately notified the FA. They later became aware of the culprit. Should that customer receive a bill for cleaning and sanitation? The knife cuts both ways.

I'm not sure how much other posters travel, or how much time the spend observing fellow passengers but I travel quite frequently and some of the behaviors I've seen from passengers are quite abhorrent. Common sense, respect and basic decency seem to be left curbside. I always try to be very friendly and polite to airline staff and fellow passengers and I have never had a bad experience on UA or any airline for that matter.

77H


Perhaps we should go one step further and have the fine be on the flight crew member(s) that allowed it to happen?
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2303
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:00 pm

NeBaNi wrote:
I agree the lawsuit is frivolous, but I also agree with the idea of suing United for something like this. IMO, this lawsuit should net very little money for the mother, but United should be fined for allowing a child older than two years old to sit on the mother's lap for the whole flight. That way, United improves its practices so this doesn't happen in the future, the wronged mother gets fairly compensated, the industry improves, and we move on...


Completely agree. UA needs to be taught a lesson and receive a substantial fine from the FAA. Whatever damages the plaintiff ends up getting will likely be small...UA needs more than a slap on the wrist for this.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:06 pm

Imagine you go to a restaurant and order a steak. There happened to be some miscommunication between the wait staff and the kitchen, and they bring you a hamburger. After you eat the hamburger you complain to the restaurant and they admit the mistake, apologize, refund the meal, and then give you meals in excess of what you originally ordered. Should you then sue them?

If someone sues everytime a business makes a mistake, there won't be many businesses left. You can't expect a company who transports millions of people annually to have 100% positive customer interactions. It's just not reasonable.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:10 pm

B737900ER wrote:
Imagine you go to a restaurant and order a steak. There happened to be some miscommunication between the wait staff and the kitchen, and they bring you a hamburger. After you eat the hamburger you complain to the restaurant and they admit the mistake, apologize, refund the meal, and then give you meals in excess of what you originally ordered. Should you then sue them?

If someone sues everytime a business makes a mistake, there won't be many businesses left. You can't expect a company who transports millions of people annually to have 100% positive customer interactions. It's just not reasonable.


The only thing to add would be that the hamburger was actually not legal to serve, and the restaurant goes out of it's way to make sure that you know that in advance and so pay for a steak.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:11 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:

Perhaps we should go one step further and have the fine be on the flight crew member(s) that allowed it to happen?

How does that work? Do flight crews accompany you to the lav to make sure you don't flush your tablecloth down the toilet? Does the airline provide baby sitters so your kids don't write on side walls, tray tables, and windows?

Flight crews don't "allow" bad behavior, people behave badly, and they are doing so now more and more and growing bolder doing it.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:15 pm

PlanesNTrains wrote:

The only thing to add would be that the hamburger was actually not legal to serve, and the restaurant goes out of it's way to make sure that you know that in advance and so pay for a steak.

A mistake was made. Have you ever made a mistake? They happen. One happened here. The airline admitted it. They apologized, they gave the money back, they received no extra revenue from the mistake, and they upgraded the passenger on the return. Please show me the malicious intent involved where a lawsuit for damages is necessary.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:30 pm

ASFlyer wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
After the airline has a history of beating up passengers that take charge of their situation? That action worked better to intimidate passengers than I would have believed.


United doesn't have a "history of beating up passengers" that "take charge of their situation". The Chicago Airport Authority Police Department does - and they didn't see it as someone "taking charge of their situation", rather they likely viewed it as someone that was defiantly refusing to leave the private property of a business that no longer wanted to serve them. Was United right in what they did? Absolutely not. United doesn't have a team of goons that go around beating up their passengers though. They called the airport police to come and remove the passenger. I'm quite sure they didn't ask the police to "rough em up a little on the way out".


If you hire a goon to beat somebody up, you are still responsible. UA had no right to deplane a seated passenger with a valid boarding pass, it is to late in the process. So yes UA has a history of beating up passengers who stand on their rights.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:43 pm

B737900ER wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

Perhaps we should go one step further and have the fine be on the flight crew member(s) that allowed it to happen?

How does that work? Do flight crews accompany you to the lav to make sure you don't flush your tablecloth down the toilet? Does the airline provide baby sitters so your kids don't write on side walls, tray tables, and windows?

Flight crews don't "allow" bad behavior, people behave badly, and they are doing so now more and more and growing bolder doing it.


Well, first, it was mildly tongue-in-cheek, but my point is that you can't control 80,000 employees, but if those folks know that they will be financially responsible for their actions in how they carry out their job, perhaps it will have a deterrent effect?

B737900ER wrote:
PlanesNTrains wrote:

The only thing to add would be that the hamburger was actually not legal to serve, and the restaurant goes out of it's way to make sure that you know that in advance and so pay for a steak.

A mistake was made. Have you ever made a mistake? They happen. One happened here. The airline admitted it. They apologized, they gave the money back, they received no extra revenue from the mistake, and they upgraded the passenger on the return. Please show me the malicious intent involved where a lawsuit for damages is necessary.


I'm not sure why you are being so assertive with me - I agree. I already said as much in this thread. However, in addressing your analogy, you left out that in the case of United, it was against regs to have a 2+ year old child seated on her lap. If this was brought to a FAs attention prior to takeoff, and they allowed the flight to continue, then perhaps the steak-vs-burger analogy is missing a detail or two? The other point made earlier was that airlines encourage you to book a seat for your infant/toddler, whether for safety or financial reasons I won't address. So if it's not legal to carry a 2+ year old on your lap, and the airline tells you you can't do that and must purchase another seat, and you do that, then they take your seat and have you hold the child, and you tell them, and they let it ride - we have a problem.

But no, I don't see the need for a lawsuit - i merely was commenting on your analogy. My everlasting apologies.
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:54 pm

Sounds like this lady was sheepish and afraid to be more assertive at the time; afraid of confrontation. She had paid for two seats and had two boarding passes, there's no reason she should have just sat there and given it away, then deciding to sue later. Why was it so difficult to call over a FA and show them the two boarding passes when someone else tried to sit down? Whenever I've had people seated in my seat, I either ask them what's going on or go to a FA. Problem always gets sorted out within seconds.
 
77H
Topic Author
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:24 am

NeBaNi wrote:
I agree the lawsuit is frivolous, but I also agree with the idea of suing United for something like this. IMO, this lawsuit should net very little money for the mother, but United should be fined for allowing a child older than two years old to sit on the mother's lap for the whole flight. That way, United improves its practices so this doesn't happen in the future, the wronged mother gets fairly compensated, the industry improves, and we move on...


I completely agree with this. I think it is absolutely fair for the airline to be fined by the FAA for their violation. To me, this woman should not receive anything further than what shes already gotten. Her coached line about suing to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else is utter rubbish. If she was so concerned about this happening to anyone else, she would write her congresswoman/man or even call/write the FAA and ask that a fine be imposed or legislation written to better protect passengers. Her lawsuit is about personal compensation and nothing more.

77H
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:25 am

rwsea wrote:
Sounds like this lady was sheepish and afraid to be more assertive at the time; afraid of confrontation. She had paid for two seats and had two boarding passes, there's no reason she should have just sat there and given it away, then deciding to sue later. Why was it so difficult to call over a FA and show them the two boarding passes when someone else tried to sit down? Whenever I've had people seated in my seat, I either ask them what's going on or go to a FA. Problem always gets sorted out within seconds.


She did tell the FA. The comment from the FA was, that the flight was fully booked.
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1742
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:30 am

mjoelnir wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
After the airline has a history of beating up passengers that take charge of their situation? That action worked better to intimidate passengers than I would have believed.


United doesn't have a "history of beating up passengers" that "take charge of their situation". The Chicago Airport Authority Police Department does - and they didn't see it as someone "taking charge of their situation", rather they likely viewed it as someone that was defiantly refusing to leave the private property of a business that no longer wanted to serve them. Was United right in what they did? Absolutely not. United doesn't have a team of goons that go around beating up their passengers though. They called the airport police to come and remove the passenger. I'm quite sure they didn't ask the police to "rough em up a little on the way out".


If you hire a goon to beat somebody up, you are still responsible. UA had no right to deplane a seated passenger with a valid boarding pass, it is to late in the process. So yes UA has a history of beating up passengers who stand on their rights.


They didn't hire a "goon to beat someone up", anymore than someone that called the Police because they see a house broken into hires a cop to come kill someone. The police act as they wish and not one person on the plane would have been able to step in and stop them once they started dragging that man out of the plane. Try stopping a cop next time you see them pulling someone over and see how that goes for you. So no, United does not have a history of beating up passengers who stand on their rights. And lets not also forget that the passenger in question acted irrationally also. Maybe you would let it get to the point where you're being drug down an airplane aisle but I would have stopped short of that.
 
bgm
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:43 am

mjoelnir wrote:
Typical airline apologist you are 77H.


I'm pretty sure 77H works for United, hence the cringe-worthy apologist mentality. Can their slogan "Flyer Friendly" become any more ironic?

I hope this woman takes UA to the cleaners. It's the only language these big airlines understand, and the only way to stop them pulling off this sh!t again.

Money talks.
 
77H
Topic Author
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:48 am

mjoelnir wrote:
rwsea wrote:
Sounds like this lady was sheepish and afraid to be more assertive at the time; afraid of confrontation. She had paid for two seats and had two boarding passes, there's no reason she should have just sat there and given it away, then deciding to sue later. Why was it so difficult to call over a FA and show them the two boarding passes when someone else tried to sit down? Whenever I've had people seated in my seat, I either ask them what's going on or go to a FA. Problem always gets sorted out within seconds.


She did tell the FA. The comment from the FA was, that the flight was fully booked.


mjoelnir,

With all due respect, no article available to the public has stated when she actually told the FA of the issue. If the flight was already underway by the time she spoke up, there is next to nothing the FA could have done. If the flight was full, and they were underway, there is NOTHING to be done. I am sure if there were open seats on the aircraft, the FA would have asked the stand by passenger to go to another seat.

Our disagreement earlier in the thread was largely centered around that fact. We don't know when she finally spoke up. If it was after the door closed, nothing to be done. If she spoke up before the door was closed and the FA or gate agent ignored her, shame on them. We don't know, so all we can do is speculate either scenario. I like, rwsea, have also gotten on board to find someone in my seat. I am also guilty of being in someones seat on more than one occasion. The discrepancy has always been sorted out in a matter of seconds and in nothing less than an amicable fashion. I have also witnessed dupe seat assignments before. They are always sorted out before the door has been closed and in an amicable way in my experience.

Because we do not know the full story the conversation is circular. If you disagree I am happy to agree to disagree with you.

77H
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:53 am

ASFlyer wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

United doesn't have a "history of beating up passengers" that "take charge of their situation". The Chicago Airport Authority Police Department does - and they didn't see it as someone "taking charge of their situation", rather they likely viewed it as someone that was defiantly refusing to leave the private property of a business that no longer wanted to serve them. Was United right in what they did? Absolutely not. United doesn't have a team of goons that go around beating up their passengers though. They called the airport police to come and remove the passenger. I'm quite sure they didn't ask the police to "rough em up a little on the way out".


If you hire a goon to beat somebody up, you are still responsible. UA had no right to deplane a seated passenger with a valid boarding pass, it is to late in the process. So yes UA has a history of beating up passengers who stand on their rights.


They didn't hire a "goon to beat someone up", anymore than someone that called the Police because they see a house broken into hires a cop to come kill someone. The police act as they wish and not one person on the plane would have been able to step in and stop them once they started dragging that man out of the plane. Try stopping a cop next time you see them pulling someone over and see how that goes for you. So no, United does not have a history of beating up passengers who stand on their rights. And lets not also forget that the passenger in question acted irrationally also. Maybe you would let it get to the point where you're being drug down an airplane aisle but I would have stopped short of that.


They organised the beating, they looked on while the police beat the doctor up, they did not intervene to say it has gone to far. Did they tell the police not to get to physical? What did the UA staff tell the police? Did they lie to the police, to get him removed? Why do you compare it to a house broken in? What crime did the doctor commit?
So in what way did the good doctor act irrational? Is it irrational to stand on ones right, because than the goon squad is called to beat you up? If somebody offers to remove you illegally by force you comply?

Yes UA has got a history of beating up passengers that stand on their rights. Even that lady mentioned it and was afraid to make further fuss about the situation
 
77H
Topic Author
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:12 am

bgm wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Typical airline apologist you are 77H.


I'm pretty sure 77H works for United, hence the cringe-worthy apologist mentality. Can their slogan "Flyer Friendly" become any more ironic?

I hope this woman takes UA to the cleaners. It's the only language these big airlines understand, and the only way to stop them pulling off this sh!t again.

Money talks.


What about me expressing my personal opinions on this incident are cringe worthy to you? I read the articles and interpreted them in my own way, and expressed my opinions on the subject matter. It matters not what airline I work for. If this exact scenario happened on any airline, or a similar scenario happened in any industry I would likely come to the same conclusion. I am not an airline or OEM fan boy, I am not pro airline or pro passenger. There have been plenty of airline threads I have called out the airlines in, including threads involving United. You don't know me, know where I work, or how I interact with people at my place of employment.

My posts on this thread and others are derived from my interpretation of the reports and articles I've read and placed against personal experiences traveling or personal feelings about the situation. Just because my interpretation of the event isn't in line with yours doesn't make it cringe-worthy, or give me an apologist mentality.

My personal views are that the airline, in this case UA, made a mistake, admitted fault, apologized and took several steps to atone. More than that, my personal views are that the mistake airline staff made was compounded by the passenger not speaking up. Please explain to me how those personal opinions are cringe-worthy or how those personal opinions relate in anyway to where I may work. It is one thing to disagree with my personal opinions and beliefs and offer up counter arguments as to why my beliefs are incorrect. Its another to hide behind your keyboard on slander someone you don't know.

So please, provide me with specific input as to why my beliefs are cringe worthy or tantamount to an apologist mentality.

77H
 
ASFlyer
Posts: 1742
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:41 am

mjoelnir wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:

If you hire a goon to beat somebody up, you are still responsible. UA had no right to deplane a seated passenger with a valid boarding pass, it is to late in the process. So yes UA has a history of beating up passengers who stand on their rights.


They didn't hire a "goon to beat someone up", anymore than someone that called the Police because they see a house broken into hires a cop to come kill someone. The police act as they wish and not one person on the plane would have been able to step in and stop them once they started dragging that man out of the plane. Try stopping a cop next time you see them pulling someone over and see how that goes for you. So no, United does not have a history of beating up passengers who stand on their rights. And lets not also forget that the passenger in question acted irrationally also. Maybe you would let it get to the point where you're being drug down an airplane aisle but I would have stopped short of that.


They organised the beating, they looked on while the police beat the doctor up, they did not intervene to say it has gone to far. Did they tell the police not to get to physical? What did the UA staff tell the police? Did they lie to the police, to get him removed? Why do you compare it to a house broken in? What crime did the doctor commit?
So in what way did the good doctor act irrational? Is it irrational to stand on ones right, because than the goon squad is called to beat you up? If somebody offers to remove you illegally by force you comply?

Yes UA has got a history of beating up passengers that stand on their rights. Even that lady mentioned it and was afraid to make further fuss about the situation


United did no such thing. But gotta love the enthusiasm with which you try to make United look like a bunch of thugs. Organizing a beating would mean they were aware that it was going to happen. They weren't Again, once the police start getting involved, it's between that man and the police. Try intervening in a police situation and telling the police that they're behaving poorly and see how that goes for you. The police were called because he was asked to leave and refused. At that point he was trespassing on private property. United owns the plane, it's their property and they reserve the right to kick off whoever they want. It's poor business to do so, but that's their business. Consumers can vote with their wallets. Nobody's civil rights were being violated - air travel is not a civil right, or any other kind of right. It wasn't illegal to remove him, his actions were the reason force was used.

Also, to answer your question - you suggest that United is responsible for whatever the police do once they've called them - my comparison to a private citizen that calls the police is easy - you suggest United is responsible, how is the private citizen not also responsible for the police actions? Neither are actually, but that's your assertion
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:22 am

ASFlyer wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
ASFlyer wrote:

They didn't hire a "goon to beat someone up", anymore than someone that called the Police because they see a house broken into hires a cop to come kill someone. The police act as they wish and not one person on the plane would have been able to step in and stop them once they started dragging that man out of the plane. Try stopping a cop next time you see them pulling someone over and see how that goes for you. So no, United does not have a history of beating up passengers who stand on their rights. And lets not also forget that the passenger in question acted irrationally also. Maybe you would let it get to the point where you're being drug down an airplane aisle but I would have stopped short of that.


They organised the beating, they looked on while the police beat the doctor up, they did not intervene to say it has gone to far. Did they tell the police not to get to physical? What did the UA staff tell the police? Did they lie to the police, to get him removed? Why do you compare it to a house broken in? What crime did the doctor commit?
So in what way did the good doctor act irrational? Is it irrational to stand on ones right, because than the goon squad is called to beat you up? If somebody offers to remove you illegally by force you comply?

Yes UA has got a history of beating up passengers that stand on their rights. Even that lady mentioned it and was afraid to make further fuss about the situation


United did no such thing. But gotta love the enthusiasm with which you try to make United look like a bunch of thugs. Organizing a beating would mean they were aware that it was going to happen. They weren't Again, once the police start getting involved, it's between that man and the police. Try intervening in a police situation and telling the police that they're behaving poorly and see how that goes for you. The police were called because he was asked to leave and refused. At that point he was trespassing on private property. United owns the plane, it's their property and they reserve the right to kick off whoever they want. It's poor business to do so, but that's their business. Consumers can vote with their wallets. Nobody's civil rights were being violated - air travel is not a civil right, or any other kind of right. It wasn't illegal to remove him, his actions were the reason force was used.

Also, to answer your question - you suggest that United is responsible for whatever the police do once they've called them - my comparison to a private citizen that calls the police is easy - you suggest United is responsible, how is the private citizen not also responsible for the police actions? Neither are actually, but that's your assertion


And you are very enthusiastic trying to shield UA from blame.
No rights of the airline were violated. The UA staff was trying to solve a civil problem, a contractual dispute, with calling out the goon squad. I would like to see it flying in a court of law, trying to define a person having bought a ticket, checked in, boarded with scanning his correct boarding pass and having taken his assigned seat, being declared a trespasser. There applied non of the valid reasons for deplaning a customer mentioned in some CoC. There are very good reasons why an airline will never allow such a claim go to court for a ruling. If you do not accept a customer beating up some airline staff to solve a civil problem, you should not accept airline staff letting a passenger being beat up to solve a civil problem. It has been far to long going on, that when an airline does not gets its way, they result to at least offering force. For both sides the ultimate resolution is open, suing the other party.
As every citizen and every child in the USA should know what can happen if you call the goons to solve a private problem and those guys called did not have the authority to remove passengers from airplanes, The UA staff did know perfectly well what could happen.

So yes UA has a history of beating up its passenger, it is of course much cleaner to let somebody else do it for you.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8611
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:44 pm

Is it an internal policy to fight on social media until airline reaches a settlement? There seems to be a pattern here.
All posts are just opinions.
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9411
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:56 pm

77H wrote:
bgm wrote:
mjoelnir wrote:
Typical airline apologist you are 77H.


I'm pretty sure 77H works for United, hence the cringe-worthy apologist mentality. Can their slogan "Flyer Friendly" become any more ironic?

I hope this woman takes UA to the cleaners. It's the only language these big airlines understand, and the only way to stop them pulling off this sh!t again.

Money talks.


What about me expressing my personal opinions on this incident are cringe worthy to you? I read the articles and interpreted them in my own way, and expressed my opinions on the subject matter. It matters not what airline I work for. If this exact scenario happened on any airline, or a similar scenario happened in any industry I would likely come to the same conclusion. I am not an airline or OEM fan boy, I am not pro airline or pro passenger. There have been plenty of airline threads I have called out the airlines in, including threads involving United. You don't know me, know where I work, or how I interact with people at my place of employment.

My posts on this thread and others are derived from my interpretation of the reports and articles I've read and placed against personal experiences traveling or personal feelings about the situation. Just because my interpretation of the event isn't in line with yours doesn't make it cringe-worthy, or give me an apologist mentality.

My personal views are that the airline, in this case UA, made a mistake, admitted fault, apologized and took several steps to atone. More than that, my personal views are that the mistake airline staff made was compounded by the passenger not speaking up. Please explain to me how those personal opinions are cringe-worthy or how those personal opinions relate in anyway to where I may work. It is one thing to disagree with my personal opinions and beliefs and offer up counter arguments as to why my beliefs are incorrect. Its another to hide behind your keyboard on slander someone you don't know.

So please, provide me with specific input as to why my beliefs are cringe worthy or tantamount to an apologist mentality.

77H


Cringe worthy is your trying to put blame on the passenger. The passenger did speak up, talked to the FA, the FA did not react.

Can you tell us what the initial reaction of UA was when the passenger complained after the flight? Did UA do something before the story was on the news?
 
SFOThinker
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:13 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:56 pm

I despise lawsuit abuse, but United needs to feel some pain here in order to prompt system-wide changes in rules to prevent repetition. There is only one language they understand. The compensation they offered of lounge access and business class upgrades cost them no cash, just opportunity costs, assuming the lounges were full and business class was sold out. The refund cost some cash, but not much.
 
bgm
Posts: 2535
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:37 am

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:32 pm

SFOThinker wrote:
I despise lawsuit abuse, but United needs to feel some pain here in order to prompt system-wide changes in rules to prevent repetition. There is only one language they understand. The compensation they offered of lounge access and business class upgrades cost them no cash, just opportunity costs, assuming the lounges were full and business class was sold out. The refund cost some cash, but not much.


:checkmark: Ding ding, we have a winner.
 
77H
Topic Author
Posts: 1571
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: Mother Sues UA Over Lap Child Incidentp

Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:17 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
77H wrote:
bgm wrote:

I'm pretty sure 77H works for United, hence the cringe-worthy apologist mentality. Can their slogan "Flyer Friendly" become any more ironic?

I hope this woman takes UA to the cleaners. It's the only language these big airlines understand, and the only way to stop them pulling off this sh!t again.

Money talks.


What about me expressing my personal opinions on this incident are cringe worthy to you? I read the articles and interpreted them in my own way, and expressed my opinions on the subject matter. It matters not what airline I work for. If this exact scenario happened on any airline, or a similar scenario happened in any industry I would likely come to the same conclusion. I am not an airline or OEM fan boy, I am not pro airline or pro passenger. There have been plenty of airline threads I have called out the airlines in, including threads involving United. You don't know me, know where I work, or how I interact with people at my place of employment.

My posts on this thread and others are derived from my interpretation of the reports and articles I've read and placed against personal experiences traveling or personal feelings about the situation. Just because my interpretation of the event isn't in line with yours doesn't make it cringe-worthy, or give me an apologist mentality.

My personal views are that the airline, in this case UA, made a mistake, admitted fault, apologized and took several steps to atone. More than that, my personal views are that the mistake airline staff made was compounded by the passenger not speaking up. Please explain to me how those personal opinions are cringe-worthy or how those personal opinions relate in anyway to where I may work. It is one thing to disagree with my personal opinions and beliefs and offer up counter arguments as to why my beliefs are incorrect. Its another to hide behind your keyboard on slander someone you don't know.

So please, provide me with specific input as to why my beliefs are cringe worthy or tantamount to an apologist mentality.

77H


Cringe worthy is your trying to put blame on the passenger. The passenger did speak up, talked to the FA, the FA did not react.

Can you tell us what the initial reaction of UA was when the passenger complained after the flight? Did UA do something before the story was on the news?


The passenger did speak up. You're correct. What you and I don't know, is when she spoke up. The timing is key and it's one bit of information no one but the passenger and crew know because it wasn't made public. If it was before the door closed then shame on UA staff for not resolving it and making it right for a paying customer. If she spoke up after the door closed there is little to be done.

And I have no clue what UA did after the initial complaint or how they reacted. What I do know, from the articles I've read is that they apologized, refunded the tickets and treated her entire group to lounge access and business class upgrades.

Because we don't know the full story all we can go on is our past experiences. In my experiences, seating issues happen fairly frequently and I have never not seen them resolved. I've gotten on to planes to find someone in my seat, I've been in other passenger's seats and I have been in my seat and had other passengers and crew question whether I was in my correct seat.

Since we don't know all the facts, the timeline of events all I can go on are my experiences. Those experiences lead me to believe that she may have not spoken up until it was too late for corrective action to be taken by airline staff. As I said in an earlier post, the airline's staff made a mistake. They are at fault. In my opinion, the mistake was compounded by the customer not speaking up initially which she admitted to in the original article.

77H

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos