JA786A
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Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:08 am

Apart from the 20 A380s for EK, Airbus apparently wants to sell 5 to 10 aircrafts to each IAG, ANA and TG.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-07-24/future-of-airbus-a380-superjumbo-said-to-hinge-on-emirates-order
Last edited by SQ22 on Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BestWestern
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:09 am

I can't imagine TG needing them. I can imagine them ordering them.
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Dutchy
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:12 am

Interesting if he lands the sells, don't think so.
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Jayafe
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:14 am

That makes 35 to 50 to be announced at Dubai's fair in Nov? If all go with the Plus, that would be not oxygen but protein for the program. And give good chances for the A388Neo in 10-12 years.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:19 am

BestWestern wrote:
I can't imagine TG needing them. I can imagine them ordering them.


:biggrin:
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KTPAFlyer
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:25 am

If it's just 5 a/c, TG is not out of the realm of possibility and is probably the most likely out of the three if they can get a good price. NH hasn't even gotten theirs yet so I am extremely skeptical that anything will materialize until then. IAG is the least likely because their is no business case for them outside of BA.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:28 am

Jayafe wrote:
That makes 35 to 50 to be announced at Dubai's fair in Nov? If all go with the Plus, that would be not oxygen but protein for the program. And give good chances for the A388Neo in 10-12 years.

The other side of the coin is:

Airbus may not feel that it can proceed with the smaller sales, likely to be for five to 10 planes apiece, without the Emirates deal to bolster the program, the people said. In the absence of new orders the company is set to pare output to less than one A380 a month, most likely sounding the death knell for the jet amid a dwindling backlog, and could detail the envisaged cut in an earnings update this week, they said.

An Airbus spokesman declined to comment ahead of the financial report, which the Toulouse, France-based company has scheduled for Thursday.

So you need to get through Thursday first, then worry about November.

If this all hinges on EK, then STC's comments at https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... us-438650/ and http://aviationweek.com/commercial-avia ... a380-order should be a concern.

The climate's as negative as it's ever been for the A380, but still I can see JL and STC pulling off one more shocker before heading off to retirement. Or not.
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r2rho
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:37 am

NH I can see. It is a carrier that, off the record, had looked at the A380 already before the Skymark deal. Now that they are necessarily looking at it in detail, because they have to take 3, it makes sense to operate a few more to have a viable fleet.

TG I cannot see making sense for them. But for TG, it doesn't need to make sense.

IAG is the least likely because their is no business case for them outside of BA.

Actually, IMO there is - IB could easily take 3-4 for MEX, EZE, and MIA or JFK. Not enough to make sense for a single airline, but within the IAG umbrella - with standardized cabin equipment, maintenance done at BA, other shared costs,... it could work.
And BA has publically expressed interest for more A380's, but at the right price. Perhaps Airbus has found the right price, or perhaps they let BA 'rape' them.. Or perhaps they are offering the Plus at the same price as the Basic, which could be enough to convince BA.

Airbus may not feel that it can proceed with the smaller sales, likely to be for five to 10 planes apiece, without the Emirates deal to bolster the program

BS. If someone orders another handful A380's now, why on Earth would Airbus not build them?
 
lawair
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:47 am

BestWestern wrote:
I can't imagine TG needing them. I can imagine them ordering them.


My impression is that TG has needed 1 or 2 more for some time, but not an additional 5 or more. The fleet is stretched thin right now, such that one aircraft's mechanical issues has already caused at least a half dozen cancellations in the past month. (See TG920, which has been seeing fairly high loads since the A380 was restored on the route, numbers that can't be accommodated by any other TG aircraft.)

This on top of the fact that TG wants to start replacing the 747 (although for internal reasons, it won't get rid of them all), probably on routes like SYD and even ICN. One or two frames might be all they need though. If Airbus convinces them to take 5, then TG would need to start increasing A380 services on LHR, FRA, and NRT, in some cases by double, which I imagine they would find really risky, unless they've been wanting to do this all along and have been hemmed by fleet constraints. Otherwise, they would need to upgauge other routes to A380 aircraft, and I don't get the impression they have other routes they are very interested in doing that, apart from two or three cities in Japan.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:56 am

r2rho wrote:
Airbus may not feel that it can proceed with the smaller sales, likely to be for five to 10 planes apiece, without the Emirates deal to bolster the program

BS. If someone orders another handful A380's now, why on Earth would Airbus not build them?

The quote you consider as bio solids ;-) might be out of context. IIRC Airbus said they need a "critical mass" to start the A380-plus-programme. They would not do it for just a couple of orders...
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:57 am

ANA, that's probably as much talking as a random forum thread
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seahawk
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:02 pm

IAG could have a real demand, but the used ones from SIA and MH might be more interesting.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:04 pm

r2rho wrote:
Actually, IMO there is - IB could easily take 3-4 for MEX, EZE, and MIA or JFK. Not enough to make sense for a single airline, but within the IAG umbrella - with standardized cabin equipment, maintenance done at BA, other shared costs,... it could work.


Absolutely! You can add GRU to that list.

In addition, IBERIA have a problem in their hands for which the 380 could be the best solution: BOG is a challenging operation for twins flying long haul, and IBERIA are not sure if their still-to-come 350s will offer a satisfactory performance in the BOG-MAD route. They can keep a few 346s and extend their lives for a number of years until a new generation of 350s offer a better performance, OR they can include BOG in the 380 "package" and blow rival AVIANCA below the belt as the icing of the cake.

A similar problem is the MAD-SCL operation, remember that MAD is hot and high and no one knows yet if a fully loaded 350 will make it out of Madrid in the hottest days (or nights, it almost makes no difference) for a such a loooong flight.

MEX and EZE are 12+ hour flights, so you need 1,5 planes for each, more if in the case of EZE you want redeyes both ways. I would increase your estimated number to 6.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:13 pm

BA still has a large 747 fleet. Many plying high yield routes. I would have thought BA had the capacity to absorb another 15 - 20 aircraft. Still well short of their current 747 fleet of 41. Frequent flyers love the A380 - unrivalled quiet and privacy particularly in premium. I'm not saying that BA don't need to wake up to the impact of low cost airlines but London is a huge business centre with high yield traffic to many high population cities and severely slot constrained. I'm not sure a handful of second hand aircraft would do it. I see them as a goer.
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Jerry123
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:25 pm

I'd say BA would be a good chance of 10 to 12 for the right price! It might free up some slots at LHR! I wonder if Virgin will ever take their order as well?
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:28 pm

lawair wrote:
BestWestern wrote:
I can't imagine TG needing them. I can imagine them ordering them.


My impression is that TG has needed 1 or 2 more for some time, but not an additional 5 or more. The fleet is stretched thin right now, such that one aircraft's mechanical issues has already caused at least a half dozen cancellations in the past month. (See TG920, which has been seeing fairly high loads since the A380 was restored on the route, numbers that can't be accommodated by any other TG aircraft.)

This on top of the fact that TG wants to start replacing the 747 (although for internal reasons, it won't get rid of them all), probably on routes like SYD and even ICN. One or two frames might be all they need though. If Airbus convinces them to take 5, then TG would need to start increasing A380 services on LHR, FRA, and NRT, in some cases by double, which I imagine they would find really risky, unless they've been wanting to do this all along and have been hemmed by fleet constraints. Otherwise, they would need to upgauge other routes to A380 aircraft, and I don't get the impression they have other routes they are very interested in doing that, apart from two or three cities in Japan.


TG Ceo believes though that the 388 is "Key part of Portfolio"..so it's not totally out of the question. He says that the destinations that they fly it to are limited but the aircraft are a key part of the strategy (of expanding). As for the 747 he just says that those are "old aircraft" and will be probably gone in 5 years time

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2 ... olio-video
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:44 pm

r2rho wrote:
IAG is the least likely because their is no business case for them outside of BA.

Actually, IMO there is - IB could easily take 3-4 for MEX, EZE, and MIA or JFK. Not enough to make sense for a single airline, but within the IAG umbrella - with standardized cabin equipment, maintenance done at BA, other shared costs,... it could work.

Even with those synergies I don't think it makes sense for IB. It would be a huge, I mean gigantic leap in capacity from their A346's. In addition, none of those airports are slot restricted (the closest to that is JFK). MAD is not a huge premium destination and an A380 requires a lot of premium passengers to make sense, and the heavy leisure demand is concentrated in a 3-4 month period. AF is in exactly that situation: Not enough premium demand to/from slot restricted airports.
More A380's for BA who still have 40+ 744's, is a no brainer tho.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 12:48 pm

IAG could definitely take some, and I even recall Willie Walsh stating a case could be made for A380s at Iberia in a joint interview with Tim Clark. BA itself should take plenty more - they could fill an A380 on nearly every route out of LHR :p It's almost a responsibility for them to make good use of their many valuable slots.

TG needs to replace the 747 out of SYD - I know many business travellers who avoid them simply because of that aircraft. They could do it with a 777, but I'd rather a 380!
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:21 pm

airbazar wrote:
Even with those synergies I don't think it makes sense for IB. It would be a huge, I mean gigantic leap in capacity from their A346's. In addition, none of those airports are slot restricted (the closest to that is JFK). MAD is not a huge premium destination and an A380 requires a lot of premium passengers to make sense, and the heavy leisure demand is concentrated in a 3-4 month period. AF is in exactly that situation: Not enough premium demand to/from slot restricted airports.
More A380's for BA who still have 40+ 744's, is a no brainer tho.


MEX is heavily slot restricted I believe. But beyond that, I think you're right. Plus IB doesn't have First class so those A380s would be at lease 600 seaters, a huuuuuge jump in capacity.
As for BA, with the 747s on the go... maybe A380s on JFK - LHR ? BA ? Please ? Won't happen before the move to T8 though... (if it ever does)
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:27 pm

FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
MEX is heavily slot restricted I believe. But beyond that, I think you're right. Plus IB doesn't have First class so those A380s would be at lease 600 seaters, a huuuuuge jump in capacity...


Or maybe a wise way of keeping DY far from MAD. Losing some yield smashing the Dreamliner if they ever think of putting it there. If IAG can burn money with Level to fight DY, why not with IB? All the capacity that Level/DY is getting from low cost fares from BCN to EZE could be routed via MAD with 3/6 A388s.
Last edited by Jayafe on Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
r2rho
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:28 pm

IIRC Airbus said they need a "critical mass" to start the A380-plus-programme. They would not do it for just a couple of orders...

Agree. My comment was in the sense that, if NH or TG order 2-3 top-ups each, they would likely be Basic models, and Airbus would build them. The Plus of course needs more critical mass.

MEX and EZE are 12+ hour flights, so you need 1,5 planes for each, more if in the case of EZE you want redeyes both ways. I would increase your estimated number to 6.
Good remark, I oversaw that.

IBERIA are not sure if their still-to-come 350s will offer a satisfactory performance in the BOG-MAD route

The A359 is a pretty decent hot&high performer. I definitely see IB in line for the A359LR, if not for range, for performance. But it would also be a capacity downgrade from the A346, and I'm not sure the A35K can make the couple "extreme" routes on the IB network without penalties.
IB uses every last ton of the MTOW - the A330 really only became interesting for them once the 242t version was released.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 1:44 pm

Jayafe wrote:
FromCDGtoSYD wrote:
MEX is heavily slot restricted I believe. But beyond that, I think you're right. Plus IB doesn't have First class so those A380s would be at lease 600 seaters, a huuuuuge jump in capacity...


Or maybe a wise way of keeping DY far from MAD. Losing some yield smashing the Dreamliner if they ever think of putting it there. If IAG can burn money with Level to fight DY, why not with IB? All the capacity that Level/DY is getting from low cost fares from BCN to EZE could be routed via MAD.

IAG can burn money with Level because its other airlines (BA/IB/EI) are profitable. If you start cratering their yields and burning through their money, especially on likely some of their most profitable routes, then the entire group gets into trouble. Ideally IAG would like Level to be profitable one day too. Mindlessly chasing marketshare (i.e., using a A380 to stave off competition that is currently nonexistent and/or unprofitable themselves) at the expense of your own yields/profitability is precisely how many legacy carriers worldwide sink into financial ruin.

r2rho wrote:
The A359 is a pretty decent hot&high performer. I definitely see IB in line for the A359LR, if not for range, for performance. But it would also be a capacity downgrade from the A346, and I'm not sure the A35K can make the couple "extreme" routes on the IB network without penalties.

The A350ULR is not going to have much of a performance advantage over the regular A350. It isn't like the 777-200LR which had a 50t MTOW increase over the 777-200ER. The A350ULR has the same MTOW as will be available on the regular A359 (280t), which I'm sure will likely become the "standard" A350 MTOW. The A350ULR is basically just stuffing more fuel into the plane and limiting payload so you can haul all of it a long distance.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:27 pm

dredgy wrote:

TG needs to replace the 747 out of SYD - I know many business travellers who avoid them simply because of that aircraft. They could do it with a 777, but I'd rather a 380!


TG currently serves SYD 11 weekly, all 747. Once the 747 is taken off the route it would be better that they offered a double daily frequency service instead with the A359 or 77W
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:32 pm

I don't see anymore pax A380 or 747-8i orders. Too many better twin engine alternatives that are more efficient. And even if either manufacturer sells 5-10 more frames you're just delaying the inevitable.
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Jayafe
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 2:47 pm

ElroyJetson wrote:
I don't see anymore pax A380 or 747-8i orders. Too many better twin engine alternatives that are more efficient. And even if either manufacturer sells 5-10 more frames you're just delaying the inevitable.


There are 35-50 potential frames on the table. No dead is inevitable, let's enjoy life meanwhile ;)
 
Andy33
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:59 pm

NZ321 wrote:
BA still has a large 747 fleet. Many plying high yield routes. I would have thought BA had the capacity to absorb another 15 - 20 aircraft. Still well short of their current 747 fleet of 41. Frequent flyers love the A380 - unrivalled quiet and privacy particularly in premium. I'm not saying that BA don't need to wake up to the impact of low cost airlines but London is a huge business centre with high yield traffic to many high population cities and severely slot constrained. I'm not sure a handful of second hand aircraft would do it. I see them as a goer.


While it doesn't destroy the argument, BA now have just 36 747s not 41. 18 A350-1000s are on order specifically to replace half of them. However that still leaves the other 18 744s - there are 12 787-10s coming and if business takes a downturn they'll replace 744s, if business is booming, there's a need to order more planes. There are I think 7 BA options outstanding for A380s, 6 for 787s, and IAG has a stockpile of A350 options it can allocate to any of its airlines.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:01 pm

I would be interested in the offer Airbus can do to convert some of those 18 A35K to A388Plus....
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:14 pm

I think it would make sense for NH, if it is a popular route ex HND, of which slots and rights are limited, it make sense to merge two flights to one and I see one route they could do that is LHR, slots are limited both sides, the other maybe is places like HKG/BKK (HND flight), for BA, if the price is right it could happened, I see places like PVG would need one soon, along with India, so anything could happen and pave the way for an update in long term
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:17 pm

IB could 100% use the 380 for MEX and EZE which are fairly premium heavy routes. Supply is still very limited. Even in Y. I can regularly find 400€ return fares to MIA from MAD but the lowest I ever see MEX is around 800€ and the flights are always jammed. They could easily fill a 380 on the red eye turnaround. I'd say probably even to JFK, too which is a double daily 346 and that market has a lot of supply so adding a 380 rotation isn't actually that huge of an increase in the total seats for JFK-MAD. (The bigger issue there is where to park the damned thing since T7 is already tight)
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:53 pm

B-HOP wrote:
I think it would make sense for NH, if it is a popular route ex HND, of which slots and rights are limited, it make sense to merge two flights to one and I see one route they could do that is LHR, slots are limited both sides, the other maybe is places like HKG/BKK (HND flight), for BA, if the price is right it could happened, I see places like PVG would need one soon, along with India, so anything could happen and pave the way for an update in long term

HND isn't A380 compliant, unless that's recently changed.
The thing is with any potential extra TG frames, is that they need capacity on mostly on short and mid-haul routes, so not ideal A380 work.
 
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ikolkyo
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:05 pm

Their best chance is IAG, ANA and TG aren't looking for more A380s...
 
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par13del
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:09 pm

So anyone see Brexit playing a hand in this, as a conspiracy X-Files fan, a part of the negotiations could be a wink wink BA getting additional A380 to "assist" with keeping Airbus production in the UK etc etc etc.
Yes the production would not close down immediately, but I hope you get my drift, A380's are long term propositions just like wing factories etc etc etc.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:25 pm

I dunno. IB could certainly fill an A380 to MEX daily during the summer, perhaps also during the winter. The problem is that their yields would be trashed. I keep seeing on Facebook and other websites offers for MEX-MAD-MEX IB flights during August and September for 600ish to 850ish (USD). And I don't think it is a gimmick. My best friend booked two weeks and a half ago a trip to MAD from MEX for about 600 USD August 3-18. That leads me to believe that IB is not printing money on MEX as we all thought (or perhaps yes and it is the cargo business, the flexible Y fares and the J fares that allow them to offer a certain number of bargain basement Y fares even in summer). As a side note, AM is consistently more expensive than IB on the MEX-MAD route in Y.

In any case, the runways and taxiways at MEX would probably be a disaster in the evenings if another carrier brings the A380 apart from AF. The new airport cannot come soon enough.
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:35 pm

LupineChemist wrote:
IB could 100% use the 380 for MEX and EZE which are fairly premium heavy routes.

Not for IB. IB's largest premium configuration is on the A346 with ONLY 46 J seats. No F and no Y+. Neither IB nor Spain are premium heavy.
Contrast that with LH's most premium A346 which has 8 F, 56 J, and 28 Y+. Now that's a premium heavy configuration.
For IB to deploy an A380 to either MEX or EZE they would have to cut a frequency on those routes which IMO would be bad.
TC957 wrote:
HND isn't A380 compliant, unless that's recently changed.

It's been compliant and ready since 2010.
http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/201 ... 380-visit/
http://www.chinaaviationdaily.com/news/12/12600.html
Politics is what's keeping it away but I fully expect ANA to operate their A380s from HND.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:46 pm

Andy33 wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
BA still has a large 747 fleet. Many plying high yield routes. I would have thought BA had the capacity to absorb another 15 - 20 aircraft. Still well short of their current 747 fleet of 41. Frequent flyers love the A380 - unrivalled quiet and privacy particularly in premium. I'm not saying that BA don't need to wake up to the impact of low cost airlines but London is a huge business centre with high yield traffic to many high population cities and severely slot constrained. I'm not sure a handful of second hand aircraft would do it. I see them as a goer.


While it doesn't destroy the argument, BA now have just 36 747s not 41. 18 A350-1000s are on order specifically to replace half of them. However that still leaves the other 18 744s - there are 12 787-10s coming and if business takes a downturn they'll replace 744s, if business is booming, there's a need to order more planes. There are I think 7 BA options outstanding for A380s, 6 for 787s, and IAG has a stockpile of A350 options it can allocate to any of its airlines.

BA are planning on keeping some of their 747s running into the middle of the 2020's. So there isn't a real rush for them to order more replacement aircraft at this moment in time.
 
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Re: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:56 pm

r2rho wrote:
NH I can see. It is a carrier that, off the record, had looked at the A380 already before the Skymark deal. Now that they are necessarily looking at it in detail, because they have to take 3, it makes sense to operate a few more to have a viable fleet.

I'm not sure the argument of a 'viable fleet' works for NH , as it would have to a different subfleet, what with the three already on order being in a high density config for Hawaii, and any topups order for flights to eg Europe would need to be premium heavy.
 
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:02 pm

I've been far too optimistic about A380 orders in the past. I really want the type to survive. So while I'm very hopeful, I daren't predict any of this coming to fruition. The fact that Leahy is delaying his departure to try to secure these sales is a good sign though.
 
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hispanola
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:42 pm

Willie Walsh has spoken in the past about a few A380s for IB. He even mentioned a shared A380 between IB and EI. IB can certainly use the A380 to Argentina and Mexico. JFK and MIA may also be able to take an A380. Of course, this is hard to conceptualise given the capacity they're currently offering. It's true that IB hasn't had a first class in a while, but the "Gran Clase" can make a comeback if it were necessary. Here's an old ad promoting each class onboard.
https://youtu.be/MC3olrz1noY

If Walsh says it can be done, there must good reasons supporting his statement. Just because we can't see it doesn't mean it isn't possible.
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SFOtoORD
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:45 pm

Seems like a story leaked to the media to help EK feel better about ordering more A380s.
 
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crimsonchin
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:28 pm

Hopefully, this ends up better than those talks Boeing kept having every year with 10-12 airlines about the 747-8i
 
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Slug71
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:18 am

SQ and BA's names should be there too I'd imagine. Regardless, it will be interesting to see the configurations ordered. Should any orders happen. I can't see any of them going with the denser configuration offered by the plus. Maybe a slight possibility with ANA.
But I could see them all wanting the winglets.
Airbus really should make these retrofittabel.
I think ANA will be a small order though. Maybe another 3? Tokyo-LAX?
 
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Revelation
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:43 am

Slug71 wrote:
SQ and BA's names should be there too I'd imagine.

IAG is BA's parent company, so they're covered.

SQ just did a fleet review and is going with 779 and A359, along with the 5 replacement A380s currently inbound. Probably too soon to be thinking about more A380 replacements.
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Planeflyer
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:28 am

With all the slot restrictions mentioned on almost every L H thread why is BA so reluctant?

I understand premium customers value schedule over ac but how is BA managing the slot restrictions in the face of retiring 747's?

As for IB I can't see it. Spain is not a business market and LA is not a consistent market for business travel. Too much boom and bust.
 
Arion640
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:24 am

Planeflyer wrote:
With all the slot restrictions mentioned on almost every L H thread why is BA so reluctant?

I understand premium customers value schedule over ac but how is BA managing the slot restrictions in the face of retiring 747's?

As for IB I can't see it. Spain is not a business market and LA is not a consistent market for business travel. Too much boom and bust.


Cost. BA stated before they only wanted used A380's as the original A380 sale price was quite high. Maybe a ploy to drive Airbus's prices down if they are keen to order. I think more A380's for BA are inevitable, new or used. When I first joined this forum I provided a rumor I heard that BA would firm up 4 more. Not materialised yet though.
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kelvin933
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:49 am

Planeflyer wrote:
With all the slot restrictions mentioned on almost every L H thread why is BA so reluctant?

I understand premium customers value schedule over ac but how is BA managing the slot restrictions in the face of retiring 747's?

As for IB I can't see it. Spain is not a business market and LA is not a consistent market for business travel. Too much boom and bust.

Remember BA has all the slots they need at LHR, there are actually regular accusations of BA being involved in slot squatting.
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mjoelnir
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:00 am

kelvin933 wrote:
Planeflyer wrote:
With all the slot restrictions mentioned on almost every L H thread why is BA so reluctant?

I understand premium customers value schedule over ac but how is BA managing the slot restrictions in the face of retiring 747's?

As for IB I can't see it. Spain is not a business market and LA is not a consistent market for business travel. Too much boom and bust.

Remember BA has all the slots they need at LHR, there are actually regular accusations of BA being involved in slot squatting.


And that can very fast lead to loosing some slots. BA has been talking about being able to use a few more A380.
 
Planeflyer
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:25 am

Thought they were short of slots. Thanks for the info.

I suppose 380 price would not be an obstacle if slots were an issue
 
Andy33
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:26 am

mjoelnir wrote:
And that can very fast lead to loosing some slots.

It certainly leads to losing slots at LHR if an airline doesn't use them on at least 80% of all possible days. However BA are slot squatting by using the slots for shorthaul destinations, so they comply with the rules. They are also adept at getting close to the 80% figure, without ever going below it.
 
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metalinyoni
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:01 am

How would the growing LCC transatlantic market affect this decision for BA? Will there be enough economy passengers to go around in the future to fill an A380? If there are enough economy passengers to make the A380 profitable for IB and EI, surely Norwegian et al will simply muscle in and compete (if they are not doing so already). Granted LHR is a barrier to entry on the TA market for Norwegian but do Madrid and Dublin provide the same obstacle?

From my armchair, I just can't see IB and EI profitably using the A380 for long.
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Jayafe
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Re: Bloomberg: Airbus talking additional A380 orders over with IAG, ANA and TG

Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:13 am

metalinyoni wrote:
...surely Norwegian et al will simply muscle in and compete (if they are not doing so already). Granted LHR is a barrier to entry on the TA market for Norwegian but do Madrid and Dublin provide the same obstacle?....


IAG created Level from nothing to avoid the DY campaign at BCN, and also avoid any temptation of DY entering MAD, which is the main IB HUB, door to SouthAmerica and cash horse for IB long haul.
As said, I can see even an A380 wet-leased flying for IB or Level if DY by any chance decides to try MAD. It simply wont happen, ever.

Regarding DUB, DY is already flying TATL from here with narrow bodies, that could always swap with B787 if capacity is required.

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