Rosie7
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Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:43 am

Recently I have hear ( Rumors of course ) that there is a possibility of Spirit and United merging. Some of the ( Rumor ) reasons are ; 1) With NK having approx. 100 all Airbus AC that UA would benefit from purchasing AC and crews . All Airbus crews trained and currently flying 2) For UA to re build their presence in Florida. After losing MIA years ago to AA in MIA, that UA would capitalize in FLL ( major NK hub ) and then have increased presence and ability to resume flights to South America, the islands, and a Southern base to launch other International flights. This is close to MIA and would then be MAJOR competition with AA currently in MIA. Thoughts? My sources are current aviation geeks and have no facts or articles published to date.
 
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TWA772LR
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:46 am

Will. Never. Happen.

Jetblue has a better chance of merging with Spirit and that still won't happen neither. If Scot Kirby's words about Frontier's recent expansion holds true, then an NK/F9 merger will happen before 2020.

What's the next merger rumor? Mango and Sun Country because they both fly 737s?
Last edited by TWA772LR on Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ikolkyo
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:48 am

Might as well just lock the thread now seeing as there is no source and this would never happen
 
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787fan8
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:50 am

I'm sorry, but do you have ANY evidence to back that up?
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ty97
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:51 am

Can't see the Feds ever letting a smaller competitor get gobbled up by the US3 like that.

Just like this wont happen:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1367203
 
Rosie7
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:53 am

Sorry, after re reading the post it should read; With NK having 100+ Airbus AC ( A319, A320 and A321 ) that UA would benefit by NOT to having to purchase Airbus AC...
In addition with NK's FLL International routes, this would compete directly with B6/FLL WN/FLL and AA/MIA ....This would be an asset to UA to have a fresh presence in the Southern USA and a possible Florida base.
 
Rosie7
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:01 am

Thanks for the input.. Truly appreciated!
 
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deltadawg
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:17 am

Please cite some sort of semi-serious youTube blog that focuses on part time travel and mile accrual scenarios that give out cruises in lieu of flights! At least then we would know it is serious!
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FLLflyboy
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:40 am

This weekly so-and-so is merging with so-and-so talk is getting ridiculous. These two companies would never merge.
 
Jerry123
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:43 am

Aren't they just too different as airlines? Isn't Spirit an Ultra Low Cost airline while United is a legacy airline? How would a merger between 2 different types of airlines like that even work?
 
A320NK
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:50 am

How many people saw Alaska and Virgin America getting together? I rest my case...
 
cschleic
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:57 am

Seems like so often the first reason for "rumored" mergers / acquisitions is fleet commonality reasons. But most often these are publicly traded companies so the reason is a perceived opportunity to increase / create value, usually by adding revenue at a greater rate than costs (such as by eliminating costs), adding a large geographic area, or specific international route groups. The type of aircraft operated isn't a primary concern.

Looking at recent and not-so-recent large mergers / acquisitions..... Delta (Boeing and MD) + Northwest (significant Airbus), Alaska (Boeing) + Virgin America (Airbus), American (Boeing and MD) + USAirways (significant Airbus)....fleet isn't the leading reason. Or could get into more specific type comparisons....United (eliminating 737s) + Continental (significant 737 percentage), etc.

Rosie7 wrote:
Sorry, after re reading the post it should read; With NK having 100+ Airbus AC ( A319, A320 and A321 ) that UA would benefit by NOT to having to purchase Airbus AC...
In addition with NK's FLL International routes, this would compete directly with B6/FLL WN/FLL and AA/MIA ....This would be an asset to UA to have a fresh presence in the Southern USA and a possible Florida base.


Perhaps the OP meant the benefit of purchasing the planes by buying the company. But buying an entire company just to get planes can be a very expensive way to do it. Unless they're impossible to get otherwise, or have some technological advantage, they're just an asset that will be replaced at some point.
 
77H
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 6:38 am

I always see members posting that the SE is UA's weak point and begin postulating how UA could create a more meaningful presence. But there seem to be very limited city pairs in that region that UA can't serve competitively today with its IAD and IAH hubs. For the city pairs it can't serve today, would the revenue those city pairs generate justify the investment costs of creating a new hub or focus on their own or by buying an airline with existing ops there? Me thinks probably not.

If UA wanted to it could create a FL or SE hub or even a large focus city it could do it on its own within a year. Beyond that, UA is just finally starting to integrate its extant work groups. Bringing on a new group would certainly set UA back.

77H
 
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intotheair
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:03 am

This is as likely as the thread I started a few weeks ago when I was drunk and tongue-in-cheek suggested that WS could buy B6 and fly 787s and 767NGs from decaying US steel towns to Europe.
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Chemist
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:14 am

Rosie7 wrote:
Recently I have hear ( Rumors of course ) that there is a possibility of Spirit and United merging. Some of the ( Rumor ) reasons are ; 1) With NK having approx. 100 all Airbus AC that UA would benefit from purchasing AC and crews . All Airbus crews trained and currently flying 2) For UA to re build their presence in Florida. After losing MIA years ago to AA in MIA, that UA would capitalize in FLL ( major NK hub ) and then have increased presence and ability to resume flights to South America, the islands, and a Southern base to launch other International flights. This is close to MIA and would then be MAJOR competition with AA currently in MIA. Thoughts? My sources are current aviation geeks and have no facts or articles published to date.


Perhaps makes some sense. Seems to be less and less difference between those two airlines these days.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:59 am

As was said by the first poster, it isn't a viable option. Most of these "rumors" start with 2 people who enjoy talking shop, while blazing a few doobies. It's cool, it keeps the uptight people (the largest group here) with something to rail against & it gives the rest of us to ponder for a few seconds.

IMHO, these 2 carriers offer nothing to each other. UA took a bath in Florida with the South American flights out of MIA. They have had a presence there for multiple decades & will continue to do so. With the myriad of carriers flying north/south on the East coast, why would UA want to try & squeeze a few pennies a seat out of that market, when there are so many more routes needing attention?
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:18 am

One very basic question all the merger rumors raise for me:

Is United looking, hoping, planning to merge with an airline at the moment?

IMHO (and naturally I have zero information) it would seem far more prudent for UA to execute their new programs (better service and hard product) as flawlessly as possible and stay focused on a major turn around in their brand image, which in turn would bring in more revenue should the "never United" folks decide to give UA a chance again, as well as capture the hearts and minds of the next generation of global and domestic passengers...basically the folks who won't remember the problems. As for growth it seems to me that UA can do that organically and acquire the additional aircraft over time.
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intotheair
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:29 am

If anything, UA would like to buy some of NK's fleet. They have the same engine type, and the V2500 engines on the A319/320s seem to be less common than the CFMs. At the very least, UA did, in fact, have a deal to buy a handful of A319s from NK (or NK's lessor) until NK later decided to keep them.

UA has been on the lookout in the used narrowbody market for a while. So far, they have only been able to buy some used A319s from CZ, which are being integrated into UA's fleet at a glacial pace, and they bought ~4 73Gs from CM. Seemingly, they haven't found much else, but I think it's pretty level-headed to assume that UA is in a better position to grow organically through opportunistic purchases of used aircraft, or even buy new aircraft outright, than to try and go through a much messier process of integrating another carrier with a very different business model.
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:37 am

Why would they want to lower their standards like that? I mean NK of course.

But seriously, other than buying planes there is no real reason for UA to buy them.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:45 am

This is too off the wall to even manage to laugh. UA never lost the market to AA. They would have had to bother trying, to lose it. They just walked away.
 
flyby519
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:23 am

kimimm19 wrote:
Rumor has it that their levels of service are virtually identical... :duck:


:rotfl: this made my morning
 
xdlx
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:02 am

Ok so AS just hinted recently they have about 70 frames to dispose/replace as they go thru their Acquisition of VA, I am certain UA can get those Buses and not the fleas that come with NK model of ULCC.
 
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:05 am

Rosie7 wrote:
Recently I have hear ( Rumors of course ) that there is a possibility of Spirit and United merging. Some of the ( Rumor ) reasons are ; 1) With NK having approx. 100 all Airbus AC that UA would benefit from purchasing AC and crews . All Airbus crews trained and currently flying 2) For UA to re build their presence in Florida. After losing MIA years ago to AA in MIA, that UA would capitalize in FLL ( major NK hub ) and then have increased presence and ability to resume flights to South America, the islands, and a Southern base to launch other International flights. This is close to MIA and would then be MAJOR competition with AA currently in MIA. Thoughts? My sources are current aviation geeks and have no facts or articles published to date.

#1) NO MORE MERGERS

#2) Sure, when people on a.net propose fleet commonality mergers, those ALWAYS happen. :rotfl:
 
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:26 am

Memes aren't usually this long, but I like your innovation.
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 11:49 am

A320NK wrote:
How many people saw Alaska and Virgin America getting together? I rest my case...


Alaska and Virgin America were relatively similar. Both have a reputation for having higher quality service than most of their competition. That said, Alaska bought Virgin as a competitive preemption of jetBlue. This is totally a different scenario than United and Spirit, although I guess in the case of a combination, they could operate as two separate brands under two separate operating certificates. Still don't believe it has an iceberg's chance in hell, though.
 
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 1:52 pm

cschleic wrote:
Seems like so often the first reason for "rumored" mergers / acquisitions is fleet commonality reasons.


I completely agree...fleet commonality is one factor in a merger, but it's pretty far down the list of importance. Uncommon fleet types can be shed (sold, disposed) or, as is sometimes the case, kept. It's a complication but not a key reason for a merger to go through or not go through.
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ordbosewr
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:42 pm

richierich wrote:
cschleic wrote:
Seems like so often the first reason for "rumored" mergers / acquisitions is fleet commonality reasons.


I completely agree...fleet commonality is one factor in a merger, but it's pretty far down the list of importance. Uncommon fleet types can be shed (sold, disposed) or, as is sometimes the case, kept. It's a complication but not a key reason for a merger to go through or not go through.


The question is about acquisition cost of the fleet. If UA can acquire all of Spirit for less than it would to cost for them to acquire whatever number of airbus aircraft that spirit owns. That could be the very simple way to acquire a larger fleet.
The point here is not the value of the parts of Spirit. Does UA place all of the value of spirit in just the fleet and could careless about the remainder of the airline. Heck, they could acquire the fleet then spin-off everything else (ie the brand, systems, slot ownership, etc).

All that being said, it would be a very confusing way to acquire the aircraft.

And I will say that I think this would be a poor decision to attempt to do this, based on the current rumor.
 
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:45 pm

Hypothetically if this were to happen, I doubt it would get DOJ approval without major concessions even in a GOP DOJ. Eliminating an ultra low-cost carrier to benefit a network one isn't good for consumers in the wider picture it will be argued and thus this would be heavily scrutinized.
 
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:07 pm

I couldn't imagine how an NK merger would effect MCO, lots of duplicate routes, but it almost seems like they'd have to use a whole airside to operate. At DTW they'd have quite a few gates to work with, F9 has 1 and I think NK has 6, plenty of room to move planes around.
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:03 pm

Rosie7 wrote:
Recently I have hear ( Rumors of course ) that there is a possibility of Spirit and United merging. Some of the ( Rumor ) reasons are ; 1) With NK having approx. 100 all Airbus AC that UA would benefit from purchasing AC and crews . All Airbus crews trained and currently flying 2) For UA to re build their presence in Florida. After losing MIA years ago to AA in MIA, that UA would capitalize in FLL ( major NK hub ) and then have increased presence and ability to resume flights to South America, the islands, and a Southern base to launch other International flights. This is close to MIA and would then be MAJOR competition with AA currently in MIA. Thoughts? My sources are current aviation geeks and have no facts or articles published to date.


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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:30 pm

ordbosewr wrote:
The question is about acquisition cost of the fleet. If UA can acquire all of Spirit for less than it would to cost for them to acquire whatever number of airbus aircraft that spirit owns. That could be the very simple way to acquire a larger fleet.
The point here is not the value of the parts of Spirit. Does UA place all of the value of spirit in just the fleet and could careless about the remainder of the airline. Heck, they could acquire the fleet then spin-off everything else (ie the brand, systems, slot ownership, etc).


Do you think Spirit acquires aircraft at lower cost than UA (or DL or AA)? I don't.

If the enterprise value of Spirit is lower than the value of the fleet it's a perverse - but not unprecedented - situation. What could UA do to eliminate the negatives that depress Spirit's value? If anything, profitability would go the other way, with Spirit employees brought up to UA wages.

UA, DL, AA and WN have all shown - in repeated transactions - it's possible to get a lot of planes in a relative hurry.
 
santi319
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:34 pm

I love how everyone looks at NK like the cheap small airline when they have the youngest fleet in the US, and $1 Billion unrestricted cash and no debt... but hey don't mind the underdog...
 
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intotheair
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:42 pm

xdlx wrote:
Ok so AS just hinted recently they have about 70 frames to dispose/replace as they go thru their Acquisition of VA, I am certain UA can get those Buses and not the fleas that come with NK model of ULCC.


Eh, not sure UA would be interested in those. They are different engine types, and if AS gives those planes up, then it's up to the lessor to figure out where they go next. It's a worldwide market, so they could go to anybody. As I recall, a handful of VX's A319s whose leases expired early ended up at SN.
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Super80Fan
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:46 pm

Not going to happen, and even if it does the DOJ should and will block it.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
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AirAfreak
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:26 pm

A UA + NK merger is likely to happen just as much as a BA + VS merger is likely to happen.

Let's add a QF + F9 merger to the this baseless thread of meaningless rumors. They both have animals on their tails so they are likely to merge and form a Transpacific Alliance and then we will see Denver to Sydney flights. Duh.
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intotheair
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:15 pm

AirAfreak wrote:
Let's add a QF + F9 merger to the this baseless thread of meaningless rumors. They both have animals on their tails so they are likely to merge and form a Transpacific Alliance and then we will see Denver to Sydney flights. Duh.


I like your thinking! QR would be a good fit too with the oryx.
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:20 pm

TerminalD wrote:
Rosie7 wrote:
Recently I have hear ( Rumors of course ) that there is a possibility of Spirit and United merging. Some of the ( Rumor ) reasons are ; 1) With NK having approx. 100 all Airbus AC that UA would benefit from purchasing AC and crews . All Airbus crews trained and currently flying 2) For UA to re build their presence in Florida. After losing MIA years ago to AA in MIA, that UA would capitalize in FLL ( major NK hub ) and then have increased presence and ability to resume flights to South America, the islands, and a Southern base to launch other International flights. This is close to MIA and would then be MAJOR competition with AA currently in MIA. Thoughts? My sources are current aviation geeks and have no facts or articles published to date.

#1) NO MORE MERGERS

#2) Sure, when people on a.net propose fleet commonality mergers, those ALWAYS happen. :rotfl:


When people propose mergers based off of fleet commonality, I know they have no clue what they're talking about.

Another a.net wet dream, nothing more.
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:11 am

For the sake of all that is good no. We need more competition, not less. The logical merger partner for NK is F9. Two ULCC's with bargain basement fares that have some of the highest complaints and worst customer service satisfaction in the industry. G4's business model would not be advantageous for anyone. If there are any more mergers, B6 may be the red-headed stepchild. No one left to merge with. They should have made the play for VX before AS did.
 
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:23 am

Does United to a greater presence in Florida ? They serve Latin America from Houston and Newark quite well, flying from Florida to Latin America is not the ticket to the promised land. United is sill suffering from Continental indigestion and getting Spirit would give it a heart attack.
 
avek00
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:31 am

superjeff wrote:
A320NK wrote:
How many people saw Alaska and Virgin America getting together? I rest my case...


Alaska and Virgin America were relatively similar. Both have a reputation for having higher quality service than most of their competition. That said, Alaska bought Virgin as a competitive preemption of jetBlue. This is totally a different scenario than United and Spirit, although I guess in the case of a combination, they could operate as two separate brands under two separate operating certificates. Still don't believe it has an iceberg's chance in hell, though.


United's Labor contracts effectively prevent the operation of an alter ego, so merging with spirit for that purpose is a nonstarter.

Spirit is great at what it does. It needs no merger.

United, for its part, can get its hands on as many narrowbodies or Florida gates as it wants, no merger required. I cringe at the mere thought of the nine figure sums necessary to simply bridge NK's fleet into UA's.
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DolphinAir747
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:02 am

I have heard strong rumors that UA will buy United Airways of Bangladesh and create a hub with all their 757s in Dhaka to serve South Asia.
 
incitatus
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:15 am

Super80Fan wrote:
Not going to happen, and even if it does the DOJ should and will block it.


Why should the DoJ block it? Because we need to have the choice of buying the terrible product NK offers....???
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Super80Fan
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:24 am

incitatus wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
Not going to happen, and even if it does the DOJ should and will block it.


Why should the DoJ block it? Because we need to have the choice of buying the terrible product NK offers....???


The simple thing of competition. Despite their product, when they enter a market airfare goes down.
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RIP US Airways
 
Georgetown
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:28 am

santi319 wrote:
I love how everyone looks at NK like the cheap small airline when they have the youngest fleet in the US, and $1 Billion unrestricted cash and no debt... but hey don't mind the underdog...


Uh, they have nearly $1 billion in debt....

That being said they are operating profitably.

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slvfly
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:39 am

Can someone please explain to me this forum's uncontrollable fetish for mergers and acquisitions? It seems like every other day there are these kinds of "rumors".
 
travaz
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:51 am

My cousin who is a janitor in terminal 3 (he has an official Airport badge) says ZK is going to buy NK and fly all the airbuses with 9 seats. He said it's true he heard it while he was cleaning the restroom.
 
Adipocere
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:57 am

A LCC and a legacy? Not going to happen. If there's any mergers in the future I would expect it to be between the largest and the weakest US3 - like DL either gobbling up UA or AA.
 
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AirAfreak
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Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:50 am

intotheair wrote:
AirAfreak wrote:
Let's add a QF + F9 merger to the this baseless thread of meaningless rumors. They both have animals on their tails so they are likely to merge and form a Transpacific Alliance and then we will see Denver to Sydney flights. Duh.


I like your thinking! QR would be a good fit too with the oryx.


And then Air Tanzania will join the QR, QF, and F9 because of the giraffe on the tail.

After they've merged, Britannia Airways will buy them all out because the old woman on the tail is spinning a web of deceit.
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AirAfreak
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Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 4:20 am

Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:57 am

DolphinAir747 wrote:
I have heard strong rumors that UA will buy United Airways of Bangladesh and create a hub with all their 757s in Dhaka to serve South Asia.


Those 757s will be painted with "Continental Express" titles.
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seabosdca
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Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

Re: Spirit and United? Rumor has it.

Thu Jul 27, 2017 3:58 am

The only thing Spirit has that UA could possibly want is aircraft.

There are much cheaper and easier ways to get new aircraft than to merge with another (and very dissimilar) arge airline.

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