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liamlswhite
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Is BDL a great option for Condor?

Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:31 pm

HI, this is my first post of Airliners.net!

I've heard that the German Leisure Airline Condor was targeting smaller U.S. cities and adding new destinations to their route base. My point is I really think I see potential for KBDL as it is a small; but growing airport in the Northeastern United States. Do you think a FRA-BDL route would be feasible for Condor's network?
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: Is BDL a great option for Condor?

Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:21 pm

I saw that BDL listed it as a possibility, but I just don't see it. Condor's planes are pretty big for the BDL market. And, Im pretty sure the A321 doesn't have the range to reach BDL. Meaning it would have to be on a 275 passenger 757, or a 767 with 18 business class/35 y+/258 or 233 seat passenger configuration, and I don't think either one would be suited for flights to BDL.

I would expect more from Norwegian before Condor gets into the market...
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jetblueguy22
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Re: Is BDL a great option for Condor?

Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:59 pm

BDL went from no transatlantic service to 2 carriers in a pretty short time. That's a pretty big jump for an airport that is really hub and Florida centric. Lots of new changes have hit the airport recently, but with the economy in CT and the surrounding areas, we shall see if it can maintain what it has now, never mind add a third European choice.
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RL757PVD
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Re: Is BDL a great option for Condor?

Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:14 pm

The problem with DE for BDL is there is virtually ZERO draw for the inbound market, one could argue PWM or BTV could have a greater inbound draw than BDL.

Back when PVD had DE (also greater inbound draw), I heard somewhere that the PVD P.O.S. was fine but it was something like 10% on European P.O.S. I cant imagine BDL being able to do better there.

I firmly believe DE would still be at PVD if it wasn't for both EW and AB adding CGN/DUS in year #2 of PVD-FRA.
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CairnterriAIR
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Re: Is BDL a great option for Condor?

Sat Jul 29, 2017 10:19 pm

I live in the area and the draw up and attention these transatlantic flights have been getting has been strong. Many folks here have booked or are planning to book flights on both Norwegian and Aer Lingus. Combination of first time travelers to Europe now having an affordable option of travel as well as seasoned travelers not wishing to deal with Boston or New York. (The cost, drive, and time to get to those airports from the Hartford area has always been a huge burden).

That said, some folks here just do not see how busy BDL actually is. It is not JFK, nor will it ever will be, but it has for years, been badly underserved. Like what was said, service is provided to the hubs, and there is massive lift to Florida. (The flights are always full), and when looking at aircraft type, there is a high percentage of mainline planes vs regionals. There is a population here that is willing and wanting transatlantic service. As for Condor, if they advertise it they could at least draw people in the Summer, though I do have to agree that starting with a 275 seat aircraft is a lot. It will take a few years of growth from the existing carriers going across the Atlantic for a solid regular clientele to be built up....one that will examine other travel options from their home airport. In short, once people get into a regular habit of using BDL rather than JFK, then it will be easier for Condor to jump into the market.

What I can see happening before they come to BDL is Norwegian expanding into Gatwick or British Airways starting service to Heathrow, both using 788 aircraft. British could indeed make use of IAG partner Aer Lingus operations here to help keep start up costs down.
 
cloudboy
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Re: Is BDL a great option for Condor?

Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:26 am

Here's what I see about BDL - If you look at it purely from a map perspective it looks like it is in the middle of nowhere. But when you think about the market around it - it is a pretty easy drive from a significant portion of the very affluent southern CT market. A lot easier than trying to drive into NYC. It doesn't tap the Boston market, but certainly gets to central Mass, which is still pretty dense. And both the Springfield and Worcester metro areas have quite a large number of colleges.

I think what is really going to enable BDL growth though is getting dependable rail service. And this is already being built. It won't be a non-stop ride into NYC, but it will be one stop. And potentially relatively high-speed as well. All this isn't written in stone yet, but I think things are lining up for it to be a good system.

BOS is getting to be pretty built out, at least in terms of gate space. I think some of the international LCCs are going to see the potential of capturing at least some of the New England Market and some of the NYC market by flying into BDL, assuming the transportation options to get to either are in place.
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CairnterriAIR
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Re: Is BDL a great option for Condor?

Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:50 am

cloudboy wrote:
Here's what I see about BDL - If you look at it purely from a map perspective it looks like it is in the middle of nowhere. But when you think about the market around it - it is a pretty easy drive from a significant portion of the very affluent southern CT market. A lot easier than trying to drive into NYC. It doesn't tap the Boston market, but certainly gets to central Mass, which is still pretty dense. And both the Springfield and Worcester metro areas have quite a large number of colleges.

I think what is really going to enable BDL growth though is getting dependable rail service. And this is already being built. It won't be a non-stop ride into NYC, but it will be one stop. And potentially relatively high-speed as well. All this isn't written in stone yet, but I think things are lining up for it to be a good system.

BOS is getting to be pretty built out, at least in terms of gate space. I think some of the international LCCs are going to see the potential of capturing at least some of the New England Market and some of the NYC market by flying into BDL, assuming the transportation options to get to either are in place.



Good points, however BDL really can't be considered to be in the middle of nowhere. It sits squarely between Hartford and Springfield....15 to 20 minute drive to either downtown. In addition the suburban towns surrounding those cities and within 30 minutes of the airport constitutes a very sizable population. Agawa, Simsbury, Longmeadow, West Hartford, and Avon alone equal 125,000 people. There is also a fair amount of affluence there as well. The CT shore just adds to the totals.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: Is BDL a great option for Condor?

Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:20 am

would DL/AF ever try a 757 to CDG? not many seats to fill and dozens of dozens of CDG connections, most of which have no non stop from the US.
 
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PatrickZ80
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Re: Is BDL a great option for Condor?

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:47 pm

CairnterriAIR wrote:
Good points, however BDL really can't be considered to be in the middle of nowhere. It sits squarely between Hartford and Springfield....15 to 20 minute drive to either downtown. In addition the suburban towns surrounding those cities and within 30 minutes of the airport constitutes a very sizable population. Agawa, Simsbury, Longmeadow, West Hartford, and Avon alone equal 125,000 people. There is also a fair amount of affluence there as well. The CT shore just adds to the totals.


From a European point of view that's still in the middle of nowhere. If you ask the average European about it they most likely wouldn't know. All those towns you mention, where are they anyway? Most people here in Europe have never heard of them.

Of course there is a certain demand, but you shouldn't overestimate it and I think the current amount of flights on Norwegian and Aer Lingus pretty much covers that demand. Besides, in Germany Condor is mostly known as a holiday airline. Many holiday travel agencies book their passengers on Condor. Therefor they mostly fly to places that draw a good amount of German tourists and Bradley just doesn't do that. Most demand is coming from the American side of the pond and that's not what Condor is aiming at.
 
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spinkid
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Re: Is BDL a great option for Condor?

Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:21 am

Indeed, Norwegian and Aer Lingus are getting most PAX originating in the U.S. Condor caters to tourists on the German end.

When European service was provided in the past it failed because it usually involved a connection on the other end in Europe and cost more money than driving to BOS or JFK and getting a direct flight to where you want to go for less money.

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