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TerminalD
Topic Author
Posts: 363
Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:32 pm

OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:05 pm

FAQ

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares departures for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

THE SCHEDULES SHOWN HERE CHANGE AFTER YOU POST???
-To improve is to change; to be perfect is to change often---Winston Churchill. This is data the carriers filed at the point in time it was captured. It's changed since then. You are just going to have to live with it.

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

WHERE ARE SEATS SHOWN?
They aren't. This only shows departures.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Flights that do not operate every day of the month create fractional service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. For example, if a flight operates 4 times in April it will show 4/30=0.133=0.1. Also , a flight that only operates once per week may vary between 0.1 and 0.2 because a weekday may repeat either 4 or 5 times depending on the month.

WHAT ABOUT CARRIERS THAT DON'T PUBLISH A SCHEDULE 9 MONTHS IN ADVANCE?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. I remove the schedule adds if I see them and show a year over year (YOY) comparison if I notice them.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE SKYWEST
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THIS LOOKS LIKE AN ERROR?
The carriers file the schedules. They do make mistakes. Most of the mistakes I have seen are either related to code shares not being marked as "duplicates" or carriers filing flights with invalid data such as equipment codes that are not standard. This causes flights to not appear.

CHARTERS?
Lately charters have been showing up in the database. I have no idea if that will continue.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

3M FLL-TPA SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
3M JAX-TPA SEP 3>1.7 OCT 3>1.7

4B IYK-LAX SEP 0>1.7 OCT 0>1.7

4V MIA-EIS NOV 0.1>0 DEC 0.3>0 JAN 0.1>0

AA ORD-ALO APR 1.0>2
AA PHL-BHM DEC 2>1.5
AA PHL-MAD FEB 0.9>1.0
AA PHL-PBI DEC 2>4
AA PHL-RSW DEC 2>4
AA PHL-SEA DEC 3>1.5

AS SFO-SJD NOV 0.1>0.4

AV DFW-SAL DEC 0.6>0.7
AV IAD-SAL DEC 2>3
AV IAH-SAL DEC 0.7>0.8
AV SFO-SAL DEC 1.4>1.6

B6 BOS-STI NOV 0.8>0.7
B6 FLL-BGI NOV 0.4>0.9 DEC 0.7>1.0
B6 FLL-EWR NOV 7>6
B6 JFK-BOS NOV 8>7
B6 JFK-SDQ DEC 5>6
B6 MCO-JFK NOV 9>7
B6 TPA-SJU NOV 1.7>1.6

*DL ATL-CCS OCT 0.1>0 NOV 0.1>0 DEC 0.2>0 JAN 0.1>0 FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.2>0 APR 0.1>0
DL ATL-CRW JAN 5>4
DL ATL-GCM DEC 1.5>1.6
DL ATL-SDQ DEC 1.1>1.3 JAN 1.0>1.2
DL CVG-ATL APR 7>8
DL CVG-IAH DEC 1.0>0.5
DL JFK-GIG FEB 0.7>0.6
DL LAX-SFO DEC 12>11
DL MCI-MSP JAN 5>6 FEB 5>6
DL SLC-BWI DEC 1.6>1.2
*DL SLC-MKE JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0

DY LAX-ARN NOV 0.3>0.4 DEC 0.3>0.4 JAN 0.3>0.5 FEB 0.3>0.4
DY LAX-CPH NOV 0.3>0.4 DEC 0.3>0.5 JAN 0.3>0.4 FEB 0.3>0.4 MAR 0.3>0.4

Normally I just do YOY for F9, but because they loaded 5 months at once I'm showing the raw load below and then the YOU compare next.
F9 ATL-LAS NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 ATL-LGA NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 ATL-MCO NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 ATL-MIA NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 ATL-SJU OCT 0>0.4 NOV 0>0.4 DEC 0>0.4 JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.4
F9 AUS-IAD NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 AUS-LAS NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 BNA-MCO NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>0.7
F9 BUF-MCO DEC 0>0.7 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 CLE-CUN NOV 0.0>0.6 DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.6 FEB 0>0.6 MAR 0>0.6 APR 0>0.1
F9 CLE-LAS NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 CLE-MCO NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
F9 CLE-PHX NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 CLE-RSW NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 CLE-TPA NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 CLT-MCO NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 CMH-LAS NOV 0.0>1.0
F9 CMH-MCO NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 COS-LAS NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 COS-MCO NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 COS-PHX NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 CVG-CUN DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.4
F9 CVG-LAS NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 CVG-LGA NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 CVG-MCO NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
F9 CVG-RSW NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-ABQ NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.5 JAN 0>1.1 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-ATL NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>1.3 JAN 0>1.3 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-AUS NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-BNA NOV 0.0>0.9 DEC 0>0.8 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-CLT NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-CUN NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.5 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2 APR 0>0.5
F9 DEN-CVG NOV 0.0>1.6 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-DCA NOV 0.1>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>0.7
F9 DEN-DFW NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.3 JAN 0>1.4 FEB 0>1.3 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-DTW NOV 0.0>1.0
F9 DEN-IAH NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.4 JAN 0>1.6 FEB 0>1.4 MAR 0>1.1
F9 DEN-IND NOV 0.0>0.9 DEC 0>0.7 JAN 0>0.9 FEB 0>0.8
F9 DEN-LAS NOV 0.1>4 DEC 0>4 JAN 0>4 FEB 0>4 MAR 0>3 APR 0>0.7
F9 DEN-LAX NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>1.9
F9 DEN-MCI NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-MCO NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>1.5 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>1.6 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-MIA NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-MSP NOV 0.1>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>1.9
F9 DEN-MSY NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-OKC NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>0.8
F9 DEN-ONT NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-ORD NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
F9 DEN-PDX NOV 0.0>1.6 DEC 0>1.2 JAN 0>1.5 FEB 0>1.3 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-PHL NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-PHX NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
F9 DEN-PVD NOV 0.0>1.0
F9 DEN-PVR NOV 0.0>0.7 DEC 0>0.8 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.2
F9 DEN-SAN NOV 0.1>1.6 DEC 0>1.6 JAN 0>1.6 FEB 0>1.5 MAR 0>1.6
F9 DEN-SEA NOV 0.1>1.6 DEC 0>1.5 JAN 0>1.9 FEB 0>1.6 MAR 0>1.6
F9 DEN-SFO NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
F9 DEN-SJC OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-SJD NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.7 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.2
F9 DEN-SLC NOV 0.1>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3
F9 DEN-SNA NOV 0.0>1.3 DEC 0>1.4 JAN 0>1.4 FEB 0>1.4 MAR 0>1.4
F9 DEN-STL NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-TPA NOV 0.0>1.5 DEC 0>1.1 JAN 0>1.3 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DTW-MCO NOV 0.1>1.6 DEC 0>1.3 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DTW-MIA OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>0.7
F9 IAD-LAS NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 IAD-MCO NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 IND-MCO NOV 0.0>1.0
F9 ISP-MCO NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>2.0 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
F9 ISP-MIA OCT 0>1.6 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
F9 ISP-PBI OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 ISP-RSW OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 ISP-TPA OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 LAS-MCO NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 LAS-MIA NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 LAS-MKE NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 LAS-ORD NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 LAS-RDU NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 LAS-SLC NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>0.8
F9 LAS-STL NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 LAS-TPA NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 LAX-MCO NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 LGA-MIA NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MCI-CUN DEC 0>0.4 JAN 0>0.6 FEB 0>0.6 MAR 0>0.6 APR 0>0.1
F9 MCO-CUN NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.2
F9 MCO-MKE NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MCO-MSP NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MCO-MSY NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MCO-ORD NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MCO-PHL NOV 0.1>3 DEC 0>3 JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3 APR 0>0.7
F9 MCO-PVD NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MCO-SAN NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MCO-SFO NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MCO-SJU NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.2
F9 MCO-STL NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>1.7 JAN 0>1.6 FEB 0>1.6 MAR 0>1.6
F9 MCO-TTN NOV 0.1>2 DEC 0>2 JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
F9 MIA-MKE OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MIA-ORD NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MIA-PVD OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MIA-SJU OCT 0>0.9 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.2
F9 MKE-RSW DEC 0>0.7 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MKE-TPA NOV 0>0.7 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MSP-TPA DEC 0>0.7 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 ORD-CUN NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.2
F9 ORD-PUJ NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.2
F9 ORD-PVR DEC 0>0.3 JAN 0>0.6 FEB 0>0.6 MAR 0>0.6 APR 0>0.1
F9 ORD-SJD DEC 0>0.2 JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.4
F9 ORD-TPA NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 PBI-TTN DEC 0>0.7 JAN 0>0.7 FEB 0>0.7 MAR 0>0.7
F9 PHL-CUN NOV 0>0.6 DEC 0>0.6 JAN 0>0.5 FEB 0>0.6 MAR 0>0.6 APR 0>0.1
F9 PHL-PUJ NOV 0.0>0.4 DEC 0>0.4 JAN 0>0.5 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.4
F9 PHL-RSW NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 PHL-SJU NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.2
F9 PHL-TPA NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 RSW-TTN NOV 0.0>0.7 DEC 0>0.7 JAN 0>0.7 FEB 0>0.7 MAR 0>0.7
F9 STL-CUN NOV 0.0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0 JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>0.2

YOY Compare
F9 ATL-MIA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 ATL-SJU JAN 0>0.4 FEB 0>0.4 MAR 0>0.4
F9 AUS-IAD JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 BNA-LAS JAN 1.0>0.6 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6
F9 BUF-MCO JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
*F9 CMH-LAS JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
F9 CVG-CUN JAN 0.1>0.4 FEB 0.1>0.4 MAR 0.1>0.4
F9 CVG-LGA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 CVG-PHX JAN 0.9>0.6 FEB 0.9>0.6 MAR 0.9>0.6
F9 DEN-ABQ JAN 0>1.1 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-ATL JAN 2>1.3 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0
F9 DEN-CLT JAN 0.1>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-CMH JAN 1.0>0.4 FEB 1.0>0.4 MAR 1.0>0.4
F9 DEN-CUN JAN 1.0>2 FEB 1.0>2 MAR 1.0>2
F9 DEN-IAH MAR 1.8>1.1
F9 DEN-IND MAR 1.0>0.6
F9 DEN-LAS MAR 4>3
F9 DEN-LAX FEB 1.3>2
F9 DEN-MCO MAR 3>1.0
F9 DEN-MEM JAN 1.0>0.6 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6
F9 DEN-MKE JAN 1.0>0.6 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6
F9 DEN-OKC JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>0.8
F9 DEN-ONT JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-PDX MAR 1.4>1.0
F9 DEN-PVR JAN 0.5>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0 MAR 0.6>1.0
*F9 DEN-RSW JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
F9 DEN-SAT JAN 0.8>0.4 MAR 0.6>0.4
F9 DEN-SJC JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 DEN-SJD JAN 0.5>1.0 FEB 0.4>1.0 MAR 0.4>1.0
F9 DEN-SLC FEB 4>3
F9 DEN-SNA JAN 2.0>1.4 FEB 1.9>1.4 MAR 1.9>1.4
F9 DEN-TPA FEB 1.4>1.0 MAR 1.4>1.0
*F9 DTW-PHX JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
F9 IAD-LAS JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 IAH-LAS MAR 0.6>0.4
F9 ISP-MCO JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
F9 ISP-MIA JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
F9 ISP-PBI JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 ISP-RSW JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 ISP-TPA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
*F9 LAS-PIT JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
F9 LAS-RDU JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
*F9 LAX-ORD JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
F9 MCI-CUN JAN 0>0.6 FEB 0>0.6 MAR 0>0.6
F9 MCO-CUN JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MCO-PIT MAR 0.6>0.4
F9 MCO-PVD JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MCO-SJU JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MIA-MKE JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MIA-PHL JAN 1.0>0.4 FEB 1.0>0.4 MAR 1.0>0.4
F9 MIA-PVD JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MIA-SJU JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MKE-TPA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MSP-TPA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 MSY-PHL MAR 0.9>0.6
F9 ORD-PHX JAN 1.0>0.6 FEB 1.0>0.6 MAR 1.0>0.6
F9 PBI-TTN JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.7 MAR 1.0>0.7
F9 PHL-RSW JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 PHL-SJU JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
F9 RSW-STL MAR 0.8>0.4
F9 RSW-TTN JAN 0>0.7 FEB 0>0.7 MAR 0>0.7

HA HNL-ITO OCT 14>15
HA HNL-KOA OCT 18>19
HA HNL-LAX APR 2>3
*HA KOA-LAX MAR 0>0.7 APR 0>1.0
*HA OAK-OGG JAN 1.0>0.3 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

HX LAX-HKG DEC 0.5>0.3 JAN 1.0>0.8

KE HNL-ICN NOV 1.0>1.7 DEC 1.0>1.7 JAN 1.0>1.7 FEB 1.0>1.7

LY LAX-TLV MAR 0.7>0.5

MU HNL-PVG NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.0>0.9 JAN 1.0>0.8 MAR 1.0>0.7
MU JFK-PVG NOV 2>1.6 FEB 2>1.9 MAR 2>1.7
MU LAX-PVG NOV 2>1.6 FEB 2>1.9 MAR 2>1.7
MU ORD-PVG NOV 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.7 MAR 0.9>0.7

PF EWR-STN APR 0>0.4

RJ JFK-AMM FEB 0.6>0.4
RJ ORD-AMM FEB 0.7>0.6

TA MIA-MGA DEC 1.0>1.3

UA DEN-GCC NOV 1.8>3 DEC 1.8>3 JAN 1.9>3 FEB 1.9>3 MAR 1.8>3 APR 1.9>3
*UA DEN-LHR MAR 0>0.3 APR 0>1.0
UA EWR-LHR APR 6>5
UA IAD-GSO SEP 0.3>2
UA IAD-RIC NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3
*UA SFO-HGH OCT 0.4>0.2 NOV 0.4>0 DEC 0.4>0 JAN 0.5>0 FEB 0.4>0 MAR 0.4>0 APR 0.4>0
*UA SFO-MMH JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
UA SFO-ONT OCT 9>8

UP MIA-SVD SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.1

VA LAX-MEL NOV 0.7>0.6
VA LAX-SYD OCT 1.0>0.9 NOV 1.0>0.7

VR PVD-RAI OCT 0.3>0.2 NOV 0.3>0.1 DEC 0.3>0.1 JAN 0.3>0.2 FEB 0.3>0.1 MAR 0.3>0.1

VS EWR-LHR FEB 1.0>0.9

YOY Compare
WN ATL-AUS JAN 2>3 MAR 2>3
WN ATL-CLE JAN 0>1.8 FEB 0>1.9 MAR 0>1.8
WN ATL-MCI FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4
WN ATL-MKE JAN 3>2.0 FEB 3>2 MAR 3>1.9
WN ATL-MSP JAN 3>2.0 FEB 3>2.0
WN ATL-PHL FEB 3>1.9
WN AUS-EWR JAN 1.6>1.2 FEB 1.7>1.0 MAR 1.4>1.0
WN AUS-MCI JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0
WN AUS-SEA JAN 0.9>0.1 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 1.0>0
WN AUS-STL JAN 1.0>1.9 FEB 1.0>1.8 MAR 1.0>1.8
WN BDL-RSW JAN 1.7>0.9
WN BNA-CUN JAN 0>0.1 FEB 0>0.1 MAR 0>0.2
WN BNA-MKE JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
WN BNA-MSP JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN BNA-RSW JAN 1.0>0.1 FEB 1.1>0.6
WN BOI-SAN JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN BOS-CMH JAN 1.6>1.0 FEB 1.5>0.9 MAR 1.7>0.8
WN BOS-IND JAN 1.5>1.1 FEB 1.5>0.9 MAR 1.7>0.8
WN BOS-MCI JAN 1.6>1.0 FEB 1.5>0.9
WN BOS-MKE JAN 1.6>0.9 FEB 1.5>0.9 MAR 1.7>0.8
WN BUR-SFO JAN 4>5 FEB 4>5 MAR 4>5
WN BUR-SJC JAN 7>9 FEB 7>8 MAR 7>9
WN BUR-SLC JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7
WN BWI-BDL FEB 7>6
WN BWI-CLT JAN 2>3 FEB 2.0>3
WN BWI-CVG JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3
WN BWI-LIR MAR 0.1>0.3
WN BWI-SEA JAN 1.0>0.2 FEB 1.0>0
WN BWI-SJD JAN 0.1>0 FEB 0.1>0
WN BWI-SJO JAN 1.0>0.1 FEB 1.0>0.1 MAR 1.0>0.2
WN CLE-MKE JAN 0>1.9 FEB 0>1.9 MAR 0>1.8
WN CLE-STL JAN 1.0>1.9 FEB 1.0>1.8 MAR 1.0>1.8
WN CMH-OAK JAN 1.0>0.2 FEB 1.0>0.4
WN DAL-DCA JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4
WN DAL-MKE MAR 1.0>0.2
WN DAL-SFO JAN 1.0>1.8 FEB 1.0>1.8
WN DAL-SJC JAN 1.9>1.0 FEB 1.8>1.0
WN DAL-SNA JAN 1.4>0.9
WN DCA-IND JAN 1.9>0 FEB 1.9>0 MAR 1.9>0
WN DCA-RSW JAN 0.3>0.1 FEB 0.3>0.1 MAR 0.3>0.0
WN DCA-TPA JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3
WN DEN-ALB JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN DEN-AUS FEB 4>5
WN DEN-BZE JAN 0>0.2 FEB 0>0.3 MAR 0.1>0.3
WN DEN-CUN JAN 1.1>1.3
WN DEN-DTW JAN 2>1.2 FEB 1.9>1.0
WN DEN-EWR FEB 3>1.8 MAR 3>1.8
WN DEN-MKE JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4
WN DEN-RNO JAN 2>1.2 FEB 2.0>1.0
WN DEN-SEA FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4
WN DEN-SJD MAR 1.1>1.3
WN EWR-IND JAN 0>1.7 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.7
WN FLL-AUA MAR 0>0.8
WN FLL-BZE JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN FLL-CUN JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3
WN FLL-EWR JAN 0>1.9 FEB 0>1.9
WN FLL-GCM JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN FLL-IAD JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN FLL-MBJ JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
WN FLL-NAS MAR 1.0>1.8
WN FLL-PLS JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN FLL-PUJ JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN FLL-SJO JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN FLL-SNU JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
WN FLL-TPA JAN 6>5 FEB 6>5
WN FLL-VRA JAN 2>0 FEB 2>0 MAR 2>0
WN GEG-SMF JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN GRR-TPA JAN 1.0>0.4
WN HOU-ATL JAN 5>6 FEB 5>6 MAR 5>6
WN HOU-AUA FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.1>0
WN HOU-BOS MAR 1.5>1.0
WN HOU-CUN JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3 MAR 2>3
WN HOU-FLL MAR 2.0>3
WN HOU-LGA JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3 MAR 2>3
WN HOU-LIR MAR 1.0>1.1
WN HOU-MBJ JAN 1.0>0.6 FEB 1.0>0.6
WN HOU-MEX JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>4
WN HOU-MKE MAR 0>0.8
WN HOU-OMA JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0
WN HOU-PDX JAN 0.9>0 FEB 0.9>0 MAR 1.0>0
WN HOU-PVR MAR 1.0>1.1
WN IND-CUN MAR 0>0.1
WN LAS-CLE MAR 1.5>1.0
WN LAS-ELP FEB 3>1.9
WN LAS-LGB JAN 1.5>0.3 FEB 0.7>0.3 MAR 0.5>0.3
WN LAS-SLC MAR 6>5
WN LAS-SNA FEB 6>7
WN LAX-AUS JAN 1.5>3 FEB 1.8>3 MAR 2.0>3
WN LAX-CUN JAN 2>1.0 FEB 2>1.0 MAR 2>1.0
WN LAX-DEN JAN 7>8 FEB 7>8
WN LAX-SJD MAR 2>1.2
WN LGA-MKE JAN 3>1.9 FEB 3>1.9 MAR 3>1.8
WN LGA-TPA JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
WN LGB-SMF JAN 0>2 FEB 0>2 MAR 0>2
WN MCI-PDX FEB 1.0>0.7
WN MCI-SAN JAN 1.0>1.7 FEB 1.0>1.8
WN MCI-SEA FEB 1.0>0.7
WN MCO-ALB JAN 3>1.9
WN MCO-AUA MAR 1.0>0.2
WN MCO-BUF JAN 4>3 MAR 6>5
WN MCO-BWI FEB 11>10
WN MCO-DAL JAN 4>5 FEB 4>5
WN MCO-FLL JAN 0>5 FEB 0>5 MAR 0>5
WN MCO-FNT JAN 0.3>0.1 FEB 0.3>0.1
WN MCO-GRR JAN 1.3>0.9
WN MCO-MBJ JAN 1.0>0.7 FEB 1.0>0.7
WN MCO-MHT MAR 4>3
WN MCO-RIC MAR 0.3>0.1
WN MCO-SJU JAN 4>5
WN MDW-ATL FEB 6>5
WN MDW-BWI JAN 6>7 FEB 6>7 MAR 6>7
WN MDW-CVG JAN 0>5 FEB 0>5 MAR 0>5
WN MDW-MSP FEB 7>6
WN MDW-OKC JAN 0.9>0.2 FEB 1.0>0
WN MDW-PUJ JAN 1.0>0.9
WN MDW-SJU JAN 0>0.2 FEB 0>0.1 MAR 0>0.3
WN MDW-SNA JAN 0.5>0.2 MAR 0.7>0
WN MDW-TUS MAR 1.8>1.1
WN MHT-TPA MAR 1.9>1.4
WN MKE-CUN JAN 0.1>0 FEB 0.1>0 MAR 0.1>0
WN MKE-MSP JAN 1.7>0 FEB 1.7>0 MAR 1.8>0
WN MKE-SAN JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
WN MKE-SFO JAN 1.0>0 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0
WN MKE-STL JAN 1.0>1.9 FEB 1.0>1.8 MAR 1.0>1.7
WN MKE-TPA JAN 1.7>1.3
WN MSP-RSW MAR 0.8>0.3
WN MSY-TPA MAR 4>3
WN OAK-PVR JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0
WN OAK-SJD JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0.6>1.0
WN OAK-STL JAN 1.0>0.2 FEB 1.0>0.0
WN ONT-PDX FEB 1.0>0.7
WN PBI-PHL MAR 1.0>0.2
WN PBI-PVD MAR 0.2>0.1
WN PDX-SAN FEB 1.9>3 MAR 2>3
WN PDX-SFO JAN 0>3 FEB 0>3 MAR 0>3
WN PHX-ABQ JAN 7>6 FEB 7>6
WN PHX-BNA JAN 3>1.9
WN PHX-LIT JAN 1.0>0.2 FEB 1.0>0
WN PHX-MCI FEB 4>3
WN PHX-ONT JAN 6>7 FEB 6>7
WN PHX-SNA JAN 8>7 FEB 8>7
WN PIT-RSW JAN 1.9>1.0
WN PVD-TPA JAN 2>1.2
WN RNO-SJC JAN 0>1.8 FEB 0>1.7 MAR 0>1.2
WN SAN-SEA JAN 1.5>1.0 FEB 1.6>1.0
WN SAN-SFO JAN 7>9 FEB 7>8
WN SAN-SJC JAN 10>12 FEB 10>11 MAR 11>12
WN SAN-SJD JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN SAN-SLC JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN SAN-SMF JAN 9>11 FEB 9>11 MAR 10>11
WN SAN-STL JAN 1.0>1.7 FEB 1.0>1.8 MAR 1.0>2.0
WN SAN-TPA JAN 0>0.8 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0
WN SAN-TUS JAN 3>2.0 FEB 3>1.9
WN SEA-SMF JAN 3>4 FEB 3>4 MAR 3>5
WN SLC-SMF JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0
WN STL-CUN JAN 0>0.1 FEB 0>0.1 MAR 0>0.8

WP HNL-KOA SEP 11>10 OCT 11>10 NOV 11>10 DEC 11>10 JAN 11>10 FEB 11>10 MAR 11>10 APR 11>10
WP HNL-LIH SEP 11>10 OCT 11>10 NOV 11>10 DEC 11>10 JAN 11>10 FEB 11>10 MAR 11>10 APR 11>10
WP HNL-OGG SEP 13>12 OCT 13>12 NOV 13>12 DEC 13>12 JAN 13>12 FEB 13>12 MAR 13>12 APR 13>12

XE BUR-LAS SEP 2>3 OCT 2>3 NOV 2>3 DEC 2>3 JAN 2>3 FEB 2>3 MAR 2>3 APR 2>3

*ZK DEN-PUB DEC 3>0 JAN 3>0 FEB 3>0 MAR 3>0 APR 3>0
Last edited by atcsundevil on Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
User avatar
Alsatian
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:23 pm

TerminalD wrote:
*DL SLC-MKE JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0


Here are the schedules :

DL 4496 SLC 1355 - 1815 MKE E75 D
DL 4556 MKE 1850 - 2125 SLC E75 D
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:32 pm

Judging by this, there is no way F9 made enough cuts to compensate for all these adds.... I guess we will see which ones won't actually be added soon enough.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
TropicalSky
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:26 pm

I'm curious about that load from Bahamasair UP.....Mia-SVD where is that(SVD)
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:35 pm

Is Hangzhou seasonal for UA, or is not performing and going away for good? Ooops, disregard...I see this mentioned in another discussion.
 
dmanonice
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:09 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
I'm curious about that load from Bahamasair UP.....Mia-SVD where is that(SVD)


SVD is St. Vincent
Mike
 
phatfarmlines
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:09 pm

TerminalD wrote:

4V MIA-EIS NOV 0.1>0 DEC 0.3>0 JAN 0.1>0



Looks like startup on this one is "delayed". Thinking it's a bad idea to fly high-CASM ARJs in this market. Best to leave for connections via SJU, STT, or STX.
 
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tlecam
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:11 pm

Those WN flight reductions to less than daily from BOS to IND, CMH and MKE are interesting, in that they're three of the markets where they compete head to head on p2p routes with DL.

To CMH, DL does 3x in the summer and 2x in the winter. They're 2x on MKE I believe.

At least in these winter months, it seems that WN is giving the business travel to DL.
BOS-LGA-JFK | A:319/20/21, 332/3, 346 || B:717, 735, 737, 738, 739, 752, 753, 762, 763, 764, 787, 772, 744 || MD80, MD90
 
TropicalSky
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:15 pm

dmanonice wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
I'm curious about that load from Bahamasair UP.....Mia-SVD where is that(SVD)


SVD is St. Vincent

Is that a charter or one of type flight.....curious how they are able to do this flight as I'm not not UP has rights to fly pax from the USA TO ANOTHER COUNTRY
 
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N62NA
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:17 pm

PF EWR-STN APR 0>0.4

I had to look that airline up: Primera Air Scandinavia A/S

Never heard of them!
 
Jshank83
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:24 pm

tlecam wrote:
Those WN flight reductions to less than daily from BOS to IND, CMH and MKE are interesting, in that they're three of the markets where they compete head to head on p2p routes with DL.

To CMH, DL does 3x in the summer and 2x in the winter. They're 2x on MKE I believe.

At least in these winter months, it seems that WN is giving the business travel to DL.


All they are cutting are Saturday flights. I wouldn't think that would change business travel too much.
 
USAmidwest
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:32 pm

Jshank83 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Those WN flight reductions to less than daily from BOS to IND, CMH and MKE are interesting, in that they're three of the markets where they compete head to head on p2p routes with DL.

To CMH, DL does 3x in the summer and 2x in the winter. They're 2x on MKE I believe.

At least in these winter months, it seems that WN is giving the business travel to DL.


All they are cutting are Saturday flights. I wouldn't think that would change business travel too much.


Well in the case of IND, they were at one point 2x daily(maybe even more), and now they are down to 6x weekly. It is at least a sign that they are at least opening the door for B6 to enter the market...
 
Q
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:41 pm

TropicalSky wrote:
I'm curious about that load from Bahamasair UP.....Mia-SVD where is that(SVD)



Check airport code easy guide:

https://www.flightmanager.com/content/A ... rForm.aspx

Put in your bookmark

Q
 
TropicalSky
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:43 pm

Q wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
I'm curious about that load from Bahamasair UP.....Mia-SVD where is that(SVD)



Check airport code easy guide:

https://www.flightmanager.com/content/A ... rForm.aspx

Put in your bookmark

Q


Thanks a bunch @ Q
 
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knope2001
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:49 pm

Thanks as always, enilria!

*DL SLC-MKE JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0


Such a long time coming for this to be back. Hopefully it sticks. I wonder if Southwest leaving MKE-MSP has an indirect effect on this. With low fare competition on MKE-MSP Delta tended to run larger aircraft (meaning lower seat-mile costs) on the route, and then push as much westbound traffic through MSP as they could. In the couple of years Southwest has cut back MKE-MSP and been less fare aggressive, and now it's finally ending. MKE-MSP average plane size is decreasing and fares will go up, but with less need to push volume through MSP Delta can run some west coast connections through SLC and SEA rather than MSP. Southwest not running SFO and SAN this winter could contribute to this as well, but I don't think MKE-SLC is predicated specifically on that because both routes are to return in summer, and there's a decent chance someone will fly one or both year round in the future.

The SLC addition continues a very nice run of new destinations for Milwaukee -- ten between March 2017 and March 2018: Guadalajara, Houston Hobby, Miami, Nashville, Orlando/Sanford, Phoenix/Mesa, Portland, Punta Gorda, Salt Lake City and St. Petersburg.

tlecam wrote:
Those WN flight reductions to less than daily from BOS to IND, CMH and MKE are interesting, in that they're three of the markets where they compete head to head on p2p routes with DL.

To CMH, DL does 3x in the summer and 2x in the winter. They're 2x on MKE I believe.

At least in these winter months, it seems that WN is giving the business travel to DL.


You can add MCI to that list as well, though Delta does it 1x.

Boston is definitely weaker for Southwest in winter to most cold-weather destinations, and they have not really penetrated the midwest-to-east-coast business market as well as they might like outside of a few hubs like STL I wonder if this more represents Southwest saying it's just not fruitful to continue to fight for that segment, or if this is simply them seasonally trimming soft winter markets due to the tight fleet and they'll be back to fight another day for midwest-to-northeast. These routes just struggle to come up with the necessary volume to support business-friendly 737-700 frequencies in winter when the competition can run a better schedule with smaller planes.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:08 pm

HA OGG-OAK - I thought this was doing pretty well. Guess not.
 
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enilria
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:08 pm

Thanks to TerminalD helping me out this week. I finally took a vacation!
 
TerminalD
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:12 pm

enilria wrote:
Thanks to TerminalD helping me out this week. I finally took a vacation!

No problem. Any time...
 
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flymco753
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:16 pm

Is DTW-PHX on F9 going to run seasonal or are they quitting it all together? Because a few weeks ago F9 was running the 321 on PHX-DTW.
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grbauc
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:20 pm

tlecam wrote:
Those WN flight reductions to less than daily from BOS to IND, CMH and MKE are interesting, in that they're three of the markets where they compete head to head on p2p routes with DL.

To CMH, DL does 3x in the summer and 2x in the winter. They're 2x on MKE I believe.

At least in these winter months, it seems that WN is giving the business travel to DL.


That is interesting, WN backing down on some DL PtP flying. I wonder when DL added those or if WN was in the market first.


Edit: I see it's Saturday so not of much note.
 
ucdtim17
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:25 pm

psa1011 wrote:
HA OGG-OAK - I thought this was doing pretty well. Guess not.


That seems pretty unlikely? Perhaps a temporary thing while they figure out the 767 retirements and A321 deliveries. If they're having trouble filling an A330 on this route, it seems like you'd put A321 on it before putting it daily on OAK-LIH. FWIW the current schedule is showing daily A321 starting in January through the end of the schedule in June
 
FATFlyer
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:34 pm

TerminalD wrote:
*UA SFO-MMH JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0

That is the return of seasonal service to the ski resort. United has been operating the winter route since about 2010.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
 
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SFOA380
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:52 pm

ucdtim17 wrote:
psa1011 wrote:
HA OGG-OAK - I thought this was doing pretty well. Guess not.


That seems pretty unlikely? Perhaps a temporary thing while they figure out the 767 retirements and A321 deliveries. If they're having trouble filling an A330 on this route, it seems like you'd put A321 on it before putting it daily on OAK-LIH. FWIW the current schedule is showing daily A321 starting in January through the end of the schedule in June



For sure not being dropped. This is one of their strongest routes... it's been year round A330 for a few years now...
 
Jshank83
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:24 pm

Q wrote:
TropicalSky wrote:
I'm curious about that load from Bahamasair UP.....Mia-SVD where is that(SVD)



Check airport code easy guide:

https://www.flightmanager.com/content/A ... rForm.aspx

Put in your bookmark

Q


That or you can just type SVD airport or X airport into a google search and it will come up. Either way work pretty easily.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:26 pm

TerminalD wrote:
*UA DEN-LHR MAR 0>0.3 APR 0>1.0


I remember reading this thread 7 years ago when it said "DEN-LHR Gone" and now it's back. Hope it stays and goes year-round!
319 320 32N 321 332 333 722 733 735 73G 738 739 744 752 763 772 77W CR2 CR7 Q400 E145 E170 DC10 MD80
AA BA BD CO DL EI F9 HP NW NZ UA U2 WN Y4
 
lat41
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 5:26 pm

WN who's been more or less coasting at PVD the last couple years, does a bit of Winter trimming, and Fontier steps right in to DEN, RSW, MCO, TPA.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:06 pm

HA PDX-OGG starts in January. Not listed.
^
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:36 pm

tlecam wrote:
Those WN flight reductions to less than daily from BOS to IND, CMH and MKE are interesting, in that they're three of the markets where they compete head to head on p2p routes with DL.

To CMH, DL does 3x in the summer and 2x in the winter. They're 2x on MKE I believe.

At least in these winter months, it seems that WN is giving the business travel to DL.


Those DL flights (looking at 1/8/18, specifically) are all E170 or E175. There are some routes that are just too thin to sustain daily mainline service with any frequency. WN loves its single type, though.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:45 pm

Regarding Bahamasair & St. Vincent service: I believe that the UK Commonwealth nations function the same way the EU does; in that each commonwealth nation may fly between others. It is odd, since September/October are super low season for the Bahamas and Caribbean.
xx
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:04 pm

HA HNL-ITO OCT 14>15
HA HNL-KOA OCT 18>19
HA HNL-LAX APR 2>3
*HA KOA-LAX MAR 0>0.7 APR 0>1.0
*HA OAK-OGG JAN 1.0>0.3 FEB 1.0>0 MAR 1.0>0 APR 1.0>0

There's something odd it seems with the HA data this time. HNL-LAX is already 3 daily, KOA-LAX is seasonal 330 but returning year round daily in March starting with a 767 then going 321 in the summer. OAK-OGG is most certainly not being dropped. It goes from 330 to 767 after Labor Day, then becomes 321 in February.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:29 pm

Oh come on, HA is not dropping OAK-OGG. the A321 schedules are simply not loaded
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jbpdx
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:41 pm

jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
Oh come on, HA is not dropping OAK-OGG. the A321 schedules are simply not loaded


It's on Hawaiian's website. It's the inaugural A321neo route.
^
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:11 pm

jbpdx wrote:
jpetekyxmd80 wrote:
Oh come on, HA is not dropping OAK-OGG. the A321 schedules are simply not loaded


It's on Hawaiian's website. It's the inaugural A321neo route.

They probably filed an invalid equipment type for the new plane.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:09 am

knope2001 wrote:
Thanks as always, enilria!

*DL SLC-MKE JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0


Such a long time coming for this to be back. Hopefully it sticks.


Me too. It was rough in a CR7, but I could connect into PSP without too many problems. It would come and it would go without rime or reason. And the upgrade to the E75 is a real plus.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:13 am

usxguy wrote:
Regarding Bahamasair & St. Vincent service: I believe that the UK Commonwealth nations function the same way the EU does; in that each commonwealth nation may fly between others. It is odd, since September/October are super low season for the Bahamas and Caribbean.


That's actually not true. Commonwealth countries aren't allowed to operate that way unless their respective country has the requisite rights or the specific route has received an exemption. Recent examples of this were Fly Jamaica and Caribbean Airlines not being allowed to fly GEO-JFK non-stop unless the flights originated in KIN/MBJ or POS respectively. I believe that BahamasAir will apply for an exemption to fly the route (if they are actually serious about this) and will be allowed to fly it as I don't foresee any American airline protesting (as there is no apparent desire to serve SVD). I think the DOT would be doing UP a favor if they did deny them the right to fly this as I see this as a major losing proposition. UP has no connectivity at MIA or SVD, VFR between SVD and MIA (and the US as a whole) is not sizable, the tourist market to the extent to which they are aware of UP, know it as an airline that flies to the Bahamas, not as an airline that flies to St. Vincent which in and of itself is not a major tourist market from anywhere. And the biggest problem facing SVD is that BGI which has historically been the hub for travel between the outside world and St. Vincent is much more convenient and cheaper to fly through than once a week flights from North America. It's similar to the issue which TAB faces. Why fly there once a week nonstop when it's much more convenient and cheaper to connect through the larger hub (POS in that case).
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:37 am

MIflyer12 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Those WN flight reductions to less than daily from BOS to IND, CMH and MKE are interesting, in that they're three of the markets where they compete head to head on p2p routes with DL.

To CMH, DL does 3x in the summer and 2x in the winter. They're 2x on MKE I believe.

At least in these winter months, it seems that WN is giving the business travel to DL.


Those DL flights (looking at 1/8/18, specifically) are all E170 or E175. There are some routes that are just too thin to sustain daily mainline service with any frequency. WN loves its single type, though.


WN knows exactly what you are saying, and the only reason why these routes are around is to keep B6 out of their middle of the country territory.

Q3 PDEW BOS-IND is 385 PDEW, seats on Aug 1, 429 each way ....

With the example of IND, WN is running 2x daily on Aug 1 against 3x daily on DL, which WN knows is not sustainable, but until the plane shortage has done nothing about.

WN can't compete on these Northeast routes anyway, based solely on the frequencies and loyalty provided by UA/DL/AA to business travelers, and the fact that WN has 143+ seat passenger aircraft.

With WN easing up its stranglehold on some of these routes, it is time for B6 to finally hop into the midwest....
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:41 am

enilria wrote:
Thanks to TerminalD helping me out this week. I finally took a vacation!


Good for you! I wondered if you'd been hijacked! ;)
 
dc10lover
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:06 am

If Southwest wants to stay "California's Airline", they need more flights in and out of California to other States. Alaska is doing that now.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:37 am

Midwestindy wrote:
With the example of IND, WN is running 2x daily on Aug 1 against 3x daily on DL, which WN knows is not sustainable, but until the plane shortage has done nothing about.

WN can't compete on these Northeast routes anyway, based solely on the frequencies and loyalty provided by UA/DL/AA to business travelers, and the fact that WN has 143+ seat passenger aircraft.

With WN easing up its stranglehold on some of these routes, it is time for B6 to finally hop into the midwest....


Is there some evidence that 2x versus 3x is a significant disadvantage in a market like IND-BOS? IND-BOS is short enough that a day trip is manageable, but you really only need 2x for a day trip schedule. That's all OneJet does, for instance.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 6:32 am

Alsatian wrote:
TerminalD wrote:
*DL SLC-MKE JAN 0>1.0 FEB 0>1.0 MAR 0>1.0 APR 0>1.0


Here are the schedules :

DL 4496 SLC 1355 - 1815 MKE E75 D
DL 4556 MKE 1850 - 2125 SLC E75 D



According to Airlineroute, the schedule is different than the one you posted.

DL4612 SLC1715 – 2128MKE E7W D
DL4488 MKE0715 – 1013SLC E7W D

Source:
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/air ... -dec-2017/

'902
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Alsatian
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:32 am

TWA902fly wrote:
Alsatian wrote:
TerminalD wrote:
According to Airlineroute, the schedule is different than the one you posted.


Indeed. I did a research on delta.com for late March.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 11:23 am

Midwestindy wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:
tlecam wrote:
Those WN flight reductions to less than daily from BOS to IND, CMH and MKE are interesting, in that they're three of the markets where they compete head to head on p2p routes with DL.

To CMH, DL does 3x in the summer and 2x in the winter. They're 2x on MKE I believe.

At least in these winter months, it seems that WN is giving the business travel to DL.


Those DL flights (looking at 1/8/18, specifically) are all E170 or E175. There are some routes that are just too thin to sustain daily mainline service with any frequency. WN loves its single type, though.


WN knows exactly what you are saying, and the only reason why these routes are around is to keep B6 out of their middle of the country territory.

Q3 PDEW BOS-IND is 385 PDEW, seats on Aug 1, 429 each way ....

With the example of IND, WN is running 2x daily on Aug 1 against 3x daily on DL, which WN knows is not sustainable, but until the plane shortage has done nothing about.

WN can't compete on these Northeast routes anyway, based solely on the frequencies and loyalty provided by UA/DL/AA to business travelers, and the fact that WN has 143+ seat passenger aircraft.

With WN easing up its stranglehold on some of these routes, it is time for B6 to finally hop into the midwest....


Indeed, this may be the right opportunity to finally enter some more of these Midwest markets -- although WN could easily add back flights ahead of B6's entrance.

B6 should be able to win the BOS point-of-sale, but I guess the question is who will win the point-of-sale from IND (or CMH/MCI/STL). I believe WN is the largest carrier in these markets, so it's hard to see WN instantly running away. DL appears to be building up its BOS presence, so it's also hard to see DL dropping out too.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 12:35 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
MIflyer12 wrote:

Those DL flights (looking at 1/8/18, specifically) are all E170 or E175. There are some routes that are just too thin to sustain daily mainline service with any frequency. WN loves its single type, though.


WN knows exactly what you are saying, and the only reason why these routes are around is to keep B6 out of their middle of the country territory.

Q3 PDEW BOS-IND is 385 PDEW, seats on Aug 1, 429 each way ....

With the example of IND, WN is running 2x daily on Aug 1 against 3x daily on DL, which WN knows is not sustainable, but until the plane shortage has done nothing about.

WN can't compete on these Northeast routes anyway, based solely on the frequencies and loyalty provided by UA/DL/AA to business travelers, and the fact that WN has 143+ seat passenger aircraft.

With WN easing up its stranglehold on some of these routes, it is time for B6 to finally hop into the midwest....


Indeed, this may be the right opportunity to finally enter some more of these Midwest markets -- although WN could easily add back flights ahead of B6's entrance.

B6 should be able to win the BOS point-of-sale, but I guess the question is who will win the point-of-sale from IND (or CMH/MCI/STL). I believe WN is the largest carrier in these markets, so it's hard to see WN instantly running away. DL appears to be building up its BOS presence, so it's also hard to see DL dropping out too.


Even though WN is the largest carrier in CMH/MCI/STL/MKE it doesn't control most of the business travel, most of it goes to DL/AA/and sometimes UA (although STL is a little different with it being a focus city). I don't think WN wants to run away, but they don't really have a choice, with their plane shortage. For example: Last year loads for DL were about 75% on IND-BOS, WN was at 65 % but the median price for a WN flight was $50 cheaper. Also, as mentioned above WN doesn't have the ability to easily add back flights until maybe Q3 of 2018, which is enough time for B6 to add flights. However, I am not quite sure how eager B6 is to jump in these markets, because B6 seems very shy about adding destinations.
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:13 pm

jetbluefan1 wrote:
Indeed, this may be the right opportunity to finally enter some more of these Midwest markets -- although WN could easily add back flights ahead of B6's entrance.

B6 should be able to win the BOS point-of-sale, but I guess the question is who will win the point-of-sale from IND (or CMH/MCI/STL). I believe WN is the largest carrier in these markets, so it's hard to see WN instantly running away. DL appears to be building up its BOS presence, so it's also hard to see DL dropping out too.


Just as WN has the immediate problem of too-few planes, and the ongoing (self-imposed) problem of too big planes, B6 is going to face a problem of network structure. Using IND as an example:

B6 can probably compete effectively with Boston point of sale on BOS-IND. IMHO, Delta would win going away on IND-BOS: that's the strength of 35+ DL departures from IND (and a SkyClub)

B6 isn't going to win NYC-IND against DL and UA, however.

B6 isn't going to win FLL-IND against WN and Allegiant - there just isn't that much demand to add two or three daily flights.

From where else could B6 build a network to IND? I think B6's logic in staying out of mid-sized Midwest MSAs is actually pretty good, based on BOS and JFK hubs.
 
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:46 pm

Regarding WN and the CMH/IND/MKE flights, have they ever operated more than 1x daily in the winter months? My sense is that in order to be competitive for business travel, you need to offer a morning and an evening flight. When DL starts these routes out of Boston, they either start with one and quickly add the second or they just start with both. I am "that guy" - i want to be able to fly out on a morning flight, do my work, stay over for a night or two and then do my work and fly back in the evening.

In any even, I do think that these routes are good B6 opportunities to push back on DL's BOS expansion.
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; HA Drops OAK-OGG; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:35 pm

MIflyer12 wrote:
jetbluefan1 wrote:
Indeed, this may be the right opportunity to finally enter some more of these Midwest markets -- although WN could easily add back flights ahead of B6's entrance.

B6 should be able to win the BOS point-of-sale, but I guess the question is who will win the point-of-sale from IND (or CMH/MCI/STL). I believe WN is the largest carrier in these markets, so it's hard to see WN instantly running away. DL appears to be building up its BOS presence, so it's also hard to see DL dropping out too.


Just as WN has the immediate problem of too-few planes, and the ongoing (self-imposed) problem of too big planes, B6 is going to face a problem of network structure. Using IND as an example:

B6 can probably compete effectively with Boston point of sale on BOS-IND. IMHO, Delta would win going away on IND-BOS: that's the strength of 35+ DL departures from IND (and a SkyClub)

B6 isn't going to win NYC-IND against DL and UA, however.

B6 isn't going to win FLL-IND against WN and Allegiant - there just isn't that much demand to add two or three daily flights.

From where else could B6 build a network to IND? I think B6's logic in staying out of mid-sized Midwest MSAs is actually pretty good, based on BOS and JFK hubs.

If b6 can enter Atlanta and Detroit, there is no reason it cannot enter Indiana. It has done okay in most of the new market it has entered out of Boston recently. These are all markets they will enter eventually but they are very cautious so it won't happen as quickly as some would hope.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 3:00 pm

tlecam wrote:
Regarding WN and the CMH/IND/MKE flights, have they ever operated more than 1x daily in the winter months? My sense is that in order to be competitive for business travel, you need to offer a morning and an evening flight. When DL starts these routes out of Boston, they either start with one and quickly add the second or they just start with both. I am "that guy" - i want to be able to fly out on a morning flight, do my work, stay over for a night or two and then do my work and fly back in the evening.

In any even, I do think that these routes are good B6 opportunities to push back on DL's BOS expansion.


WN BOS-CMH JAN 1.6>1.0 FEB 1.5>0.9 MAR 1.7>0.8
WN BOS-IND JAN 1.5>1.1 FEB 1.5>0.9 MAR 1.7>0.8
WN BOS-MCI JAN 1.6>1.0 FEB 1.5>0.9
WN BOS-MKE JAN 1.6>0.9 FEB 1.5>0.9 MAR 1.7>0.8
http://fox59.com/2014/12/17/southwest-t ... s-angeles/
Judging by this they started off 2x daily

MIflyer12 wrote:

Just as WN has the immediate problem of too-few planes, and the ongoing (self-imposed) problem of too big planes, B6 is going to face a problem of network structure. Using IND as an example:

B6 can probably compete effectively with Boston point of sale on BOS-IND. IMHO, Delta would win going away on IND-BOS: that's the strength of 35+ DL departures from IND (and a SkyClub)

B6 isn't going to win NYC-IND against DL and UA, however.

B6 isn't going to win FLL-IND against WN and Allegiant - there just isn't that much demand to add two or three daily flights.

From where else could B6 build a network to IND? I think B6's logic in staying out of mid-sized Midwest MSAs is actually pretty good, based on BOS and JFK hubs.


You make some good points, but you lost me on the FLL stuff. Florida is huge from the midwest, and why would B6 have trouble competing with G4, the same bare-bones G4 that only runs 4x weekly during peak times? IND actually outlined B6's possible routes in their June board meeting, and they had BOS, JFK, FLL, AUS, MBJ, and SJU as possible destinations. NYC has 700-800+ PDEW so that shoudn't be a problem. Don't forget B6 offers a vastly better experience compared to the RJs on many midwest-northeast routes...

But if you are right, and B6 stays out of these mid-sized markets like MSP/MCI/CVG/IND/CMH/MKE/STL/e.t.c I believe it will be a mistake in the long-run, because it will limit their future potential (a lesson AS has mostly learned). Minus TATL and a few Canadian cities, B6 has extensively covered the Caribbean/Florida/East Coast/and most of California and there aren't very many places left to go, the middle of the country remains the one big hole in B6s route map. And this is the best opportunity I have seen to add these markets in a while.

It won't happen overnight, but B6 shouldn't wait too long.
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phluser
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:21 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
But if you are right, and B6 stays out of these mid-sized markets like MSP/MCI/CVG/IND/CMH/MKE/STL/e.t.c I believe it will be a mistake in the long-run, because it will limit their future potential (a lesson AS has mostly learned). Minus TATL and a few Canadian cities, B6 has extensively covered the Caribbean/Florida/East Coast/and most of California and there aren't very many places left to go, the middle of the country remains the one big hole in B6s route map. And this is the best opportunity I have seen to add these markets in a while.

It won't happen overnight, but B6 shouldn't wait too long.


My $0.02 is that B6 will likely add BOS-MSP, maybe CVG after, before the WN served markets for BOS-MCI/IND/CMH/MKE/STL. MSP is also a large market, and B6 has a greater overall market to work with to stimulate. By the time it's ready to crack those smaller middle of the county markets, it will merge with WN.

IND would likely be the toughest on it's own, given that it's the smallest markets of these, not short enough route like CMH where some might be fine continuing doing BOS-CHI-IND as well, where with Ohio, pax would not like the backtrack. Plus would IND be a destination for Boston based pax? Destination appeal would likely be low. Just to throw a curveball as it does, sometimes B6 chooses markets without any competition, like JFK-DAB. Maybe B6 would consider BOS-MSN with higher education traffic.
 
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Midwestindy
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:47 pm

phluser wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
But if you are right, and B6 stays out of these mid-sized markets like MSP/MCI/CVG/IND/CMH/MKE/STL/e.t.c I believe it will be a mistake in the long-run, because it will limit their future potential (a lesson AS has mostly learned). Minus TATL and a few Canadian cities, B6 has extensively covered the Caribbean/Florida/East Coast/and most of California and there aren't very many places left to go, the middle of the country remains the one big hole in B6s route map. And this is the best opportunity I have seen to add these markets in a while.

It won't happen overnight, but B6 shouldn't wait too long.


My $0.02 is that B6 will likely add BOS-MSP, maybe CVG after, before the WN served markets for BOS-MCI/IND/CMH/MKE/STL. MSP is also a large market, and B6 has a greater overall market to work with to stimulate. By the time it's ready to crack those smaller middle of the county markets, it will merge with WN.

IND would likely be the toughest on it's own, given that it's the smallest markets of these, not short enough route like CMH where some might be fine continuing doing BOS-CHI-IND as well, where with Ohio, pax would not like the backtrack. Plus would IND be a destination for Boston based pax? Destination appeal would likely be low. Just to throw a curveball as it does, sometimes B6 chooses markets without any competition, like JFK-DAB. Maybe B6 would consider BOS-MSN with higher education traffic.


Fair enough, MSN-BOS I wouldn't even consider that much of a strech considering it has 60-90 PDEW throughout the year.

Destination appeal for IND and all the rest would be business and convention travel

Other things to consider, MSP is huge so it won't be a problem, but CVG and STL you have to fight WN and DL to enter those markets, so it could be harder to work with.

Merger with WN you say? That would be interesting...
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Jshank83
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Re: OAG Changes 7/30/2017: DL adds MKE-SLC; UA Adds MMH, Drops HGH

Mon Jul 31, 2017 4:59 pm

Midwestindy wrote:
phluser wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
But if you are right, and B6 stays out of these mid-sized markets like MSP/MCI/CVG/IND/CMH/MKE/STL/e.t.c I believe it will be a mistake in the long-run, because it will limit their future potential (a lesson AS has mostly learned). Minus TATL and a few Canadian cities, B6 has extensively covered the Caribbean/Florida/East Coast/and most of California and there aren't very many places left to go, the middle of the country remains the one big hole in B6s route map. And this is the best opportunity I have seen to add these markets in a while.

It won't happen overnight, but B6 shouldn't wait too long.


My $0.02 is that B6 will likely add BOS-MSP, maybe CVG after, before the WN served markets for BOS-MCI/IND/CMH/MKE/STL. MSP is also a large market, and B6 has a greater overall market to work with to stimulate. By the time it's ready to crack those smaller middle of the county markets, it will merge with WN.

IND would likely be the toughest on it's own, given that it's the smallest markets of these, not short enough route like CMH where some might be fine continuing doing BOS-CHI-IND as well, where with Ohio, pax would not like the backtrack. Plus would IND be a destination for Boston based pax? Destination appeal would likely be low. Just to throw a curveball as it does, sometimes B6 chooses markets without any competition, like JFK-DAB. Maybe B6 would consider BOS-MSN with higher education traffic.


Other things to consider, MSP is huge so it won't be a problem, but CVG and STL you have to fight WN and DL to enter those markets, so it could be harder to work with.

Merger with WN you say? That would be interesting...


I keep waiting for DL or B6 to jump on STL-BOS since WN is the only one on it now. But they keep adding frequency (4x in summer) so that I think has kept them out of now. I think STL is about the only bigger market in the Midwest/East that doesn't have 2 carriers to BOS. DL has been adding smaller jets from cities to BOS so maybe eventually they add it. I just want some competition on the route.

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