Australian Aviation Thread - August 2017

qf789 · Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:30 am

First pics of first QF 787-9

Nose and rear fuselage

Centre fuselage

Wings

Its expected to takes 18 working days before it will roll out of the hangar

http://australianaviation.com.au/2017/0 ... -commence/

MooLor · Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:38 am

kriskim wrote:
qf789 wrote:
JQ benefiting from best global economy in 10 years

JQ to announce a direct Australia - China route in the next couple of weeks

http://www.airlineratings.com/news/1383 ... -says-ceo-

Will be exMEL!

Now, who was it saying just recently something like "we all know the Qantas group can be somewhat Sydney-centric"? Must go and throw a stone at his glass house. :lol:

luftaom · Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:38 am

It's being reported that the 'device' was to release hydrogen sulphide and that the AFP mocked up similar devices and tried to get them through security around the country (to see if airport security would pick them) - and they were stopped by security in every instance.

eamondzhang · Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:48 am

[quote="undertheradar"]
[quote]
Well this is the same all across the globe, even in the States, so nothing's surprising really.

LamboAston · Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:32 am

undertheradar wrote:
redroo wrote:
We do not need ID check at the gate. It will solve nothing.

A better thing to do would be to scan/screen all airport workers going airside.

I agree redroo. So you DO/DON'T look like your ID pic?. BIG DEAL. IDs can be still valid AFTER 10YEARS..Peoples 'looks' can 'change' over time'!!! THIS ACHIEVES NOTHING in terms of WHAT the person CARRIES ON THEM/WITH THEM, WHICH IS WHAT WILL DO THE DAMAGE, REGARDLESS of their ID PIC. 100% SCREENING FOR EVERYONE, INCLUDING WORKERS. AND EVERYTHING, INCLUDING BAGS, VEHICLES ETC, WHICH ENTERS ANY AIRPORT AIRSIDE ZONE. Sadly this will never happen as EVERYTHING involving SAFETY is done on a COST V BENEFIT analysis, and ONLY REACTIVE (AFTER AN EVENT), AND NOT PROACTIVE (TO PREVENT AN EVENT)..SAME OLD STORY..MONETARY COST TO BUSINESSES OVERRIDE HUMAN LIVES!!...THE MONETARY COST WILL BE PASSED ON TO THE PUBLIC, AND THE CHEAP ARSE PUBLIC HATE THAT. ITS THE CIRCLE OF LIFE!! LOL What i'm saying is...HUMAN GREED RULES EVERYTHING, SO NOTHING REALLY CHANGES.

No need to shout. IDs are still good after 20 years, as even though people's looks change, the distance between their eyes and bottom of nose/mouth doesn't. This is what passport officers use to check.

redroo · Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:40 am

There is something very civilised about flying domestically in Australia.

You don't have to strip off, takes shoes off, dump liquids, present ID, get questioned by the TSA, etc. you just arrive at airport and jump on a plane. That's how it should be.

You don't need ID to get on a bus or a train, what makes a plane so special?

You will never make it 100pc safe but screening everything that goes near a plane is a good start.

I'd also seriously check people with airside access. If there is even a whiff they know anyone or are connected with anyone then no badge for them.

qf789 · Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:53 am

Both QF63 and QF7 have dumped to fuel and returned to SYD

QF63 had a cracked windscreen while QF7 had a problem with retracting flaps

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/qantas-flight ... xpk3q.html

qf789 · Fri Aug 04, 2017 6:00 am

Qantas statement on flight disruptions

https://www.qantasnewsroom.com.au/media ... sruptions/

qf789 · Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:49 am

Both QF63 and QF7 have been delayed overnight, at this stage QF63 will depart SYD at 8am tomorrow while QF7 is expected to leave SYD at 1130am

eamondzhang · Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:51 am

qf789 wrote:
Both QF63 and QF7 have dumped to fuel and returned to SYD

QF63 had a cracked windscreen while QF7 had a problem with retracting flaps

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/qantas-flight ... xpk3q.html

The link you gave also indicated that QF23 swapped tail due to an engine failure and QF41 had to solve fuel leakage (probably swapped tail as well as EBN's currently scheduled; the plane arrived from AKL as QF146).

Certainly not a good day for QF longhaul!

Michael

eamondzhang · Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:58 am

On a sidenote, just found out that the new long-haul A332s have started flying QF19/20 to MNL. I thought these a/c can't fly that far due to crew rest limitations? Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers
Michael

qf789 · Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:31 am

eamondzhang wrote:
On a sidenote, just found out that the new long-haul A332s have started flying QF19/20 to MNL. I thought these a/c can't fly that far due to crew rest limitations? Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers
Michael

They fly on SYD-SIN on a regular basis which is 24nm longer that SYD-MNL

smi0006 · Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:16 am

eamondzhang wrote:
On a sidenote, just found out that the new long-haul A332s have started flying QF19/20 to MNL. I thought these a/c can't fly that far due to crew rest limitations? Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers
Michael

The international configured 332 have crew rest so they are fine.

The domestics have smaller galleys, and no crew rest.

I believe PVG is the only Asian route long enough to be required to have crew rest. But there was talk of upgrading some of the domestics to internaltion.

Tassieboy · Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:51 am

smi0006 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
On a sidenote, just found out that the new long-haul A332s have started flying QF19/20 to MNL. I thought these a/c can't fly that far due to crew rest limitations? Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers
Michael

The international configured 332 have crew rest so they are fine.

The domestics have smaller galleys, and no crew rest.

I believe PVG is the only Asian route long enough to be required to have crew rest. But there was talk of upgrading some of the domestics to internaltion.

They've got the exact same "crew rest" It's a curtain around some pax seats

Flyingsottsman · Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:01 pm

Ryanair01 wrote:
jupiter2 wrote:
smi0006 wrote:

Nope - maybe 30-60% screened

That's really not good enough, especially in the current environment.

That's a pretty horrifying statistic. Airport/airline staff being associated with terrorism is an establish risk which every so often comes to focus, it was a key factor in Lockerbie and various plots such as the planned 2006 "wave attack" on the atlantic.

Being a Five Eyes country will always bring attention from terrorists and in a world where bomb making knowledge can be easily shared securely via messaging services and the dark web, being a big island far away is no longer the defence it once was.

Yes its pretty horrifying to see that, you would like to think that airport workers under the wing or in baggage would not be a risk and are very trusted at their jobs which I would 99.99% are trusted, but I guess some where in this world there would be one or two who want to do their part for jihad. Its the risks of flying now and its very very sad.Lets hope that our Intelligence and Police forces can keep one step in front of them.

qf789 · Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:28 pm

EY455 SYD-AUH declined take off clearance earlier tonight as a passenger suffered from a heart related medical emergency, EY455 taxied back to the gate to seek medical assistance for the passenger. The flight eventually departed missing the curfew from 1 minute

qf789 · Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:01 pm

Update on the Etihad terrorist plot, note that it was originally planned for July 15 and some of the details known now are extremely disturbing

It is expected that domestic flights will now have similar security checks to international flights

A dramatic security clampdown will be imposed at domestic airport terminals, with cabinet poised to consider a proposal to introduce similar security checks that apply for international flights including restrictions on liquids, identity checks and the introduction of full-body scanners.
The Weekend Australian understands the new security measures, a direct response to the alleged terror plot to blow up an Etihad flight from Sydney to Abu Dhabi on July 15, could also include a prohibition on people being allowed to pass through domestic security barriers without a boarding pass.

How the planned attack was suppose to go however didn't pass checkin

Police allege the men, Khaled Mahmoud Khayat and Mahmoud Khayat, planned to use an explosive device, concealed in a meat grinder, but failed to make it past the airport check-in.
Khaled Khayat allegedly carried an explosive device to Sydney international airport, accompanying an unnamed brother who was travelling to Abu Dhabi on the Etihad flight.
His brother was unaware that a military-grade explosive was stashed in his luggage.

The alleged device had been sent to Australia via air cargo

Police allege that parts for the improvised explosive device were sent via air cargo to Australia from Turkey by a senior Islamic State member.

A second plot was planned

In a second plot, the men allegedly were planning on using an improvised chemical dispersion device to release a highly toxic gas, hydrogen sulphide, in a crowded space. A senior government source said it was believed that the cell was planning an attempt to carry out the same plot on a domestic flight.
“There was nothing stopping them (going) to the domestic terminal where they would have been less challenged and trying the same thing,” the source said.

Previously reported that Australian Airline Pilots Association was calling for something similar to the TSA in the US however that has seemed to be dismissed by the government

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 4e79569653

RyanairGuru · Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:56 pm

I honestly don't get it. The intelligence services did their job well and caught them. THAT is what keeps us safe, not security theatre that's designed to make passengers feel safer, not actually increase security. I still live in hope that calmer heads will prevail in Australia and that we won't have US/UK style security.

smi0006 · Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:06 pm

Tassieboy wrote:
smi0006 wrote:
eamondzhang wrote:
On a sidenote, just found out that the new long-haul A332s have started flying QF19/20 to MNL. I thought these a/c can't fly that far due to crew rest limitations? Any info would be appreciated.

Cheers
Michael

The international configured 332 have crew rest so they are fine.

The domestics have smaller galleys, and no crew rest.

I believe PVG is the only Asian route long enough to be required to have crew rest. But there was talk of upgrading some of the domestics to internaltion.

They've got the exact same "crew rest" It's a curtain around some pax seats

Really? Interesting! I was thinking tech crew rest - I thought the international ones had two bunks behind the flight deck and forward of the galley? I could be wrong

undertheradar · Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:53 pm

LamboAston wrote:
undertheradar wrote:
redroo wrote:
We do not need ID check at the gate. It will solve nothing.

A better thing to do would be to scan/screen all airport workers going airside.

I agree redroo. So you DO/DON'T look like your ID pic?. BIG DEAL. IDs can be still valid AFTER 10YEARS..Peoples 'looks' can 'change' over time'!!! THIS ACHIEVES NOTHING in terms of WHAT the person CARRIES ON THEM/WITH THEM, WHICH IS WHAT WILL DO THE DAMAGE, REGARDLESS of their ID PIC. 100% SCREENING FOR EVERYONE, INCLUDING WORKERS. AND EVERYTHING, INCLUDING BAGS, VEHICLES ETC, WHICH ENTERS ANY AIRPORT AIRSIDE ZONE. Sadly this will never happen as EVERYTHING involving SAFETY is done on a COST V BENEFIT analysis, and ONLY REACTIVE (AFTER AN EVENT), AND NOT PROACTIVE (TO PREVENT AN EVENT)..SAME OLD STORY..MONETARY COST TO BUSINESSES OVERRIDE HUMAN LIVES!!...THE MONETARY COST WILL BE PASSED ON TO THE PUBLIC, AND THE CHEAP ARSE PUBLIC HATE THAT. ITS THE CIRCLE OF LIFE!! LOL What i'm saying is...HUMAN GREED RULES EVERYTHING, SO NOTHING REALLY CHANGES.

No need to shout. IDs are still good after 20 years, as even though people's looks change, the distance between their eyes and bottom of nose/mouth doesn't. This is what passport officers use to check.

I am of a generation where the use of caps is to EMPHASIZE, not shout, as per the current LOOK AT ME generation :roll:

And I suppose I should have made more clear, that I was responding to a post which was referring to gate checking of ID by airline staff at domestic terminals. Not passport control at international terminals. Thanks

tullamarine · Fri Aug 04, 2017 10:54 pm

Update on the Etihad terrorist plot, note that it was originally planned for July 15 and some of the details known now are extremely disturbing

It is expected that domestic flights will now have similar security checks to international flights

A dramatic security clampdown will be imposed at domestic airport terminals, with cabinet poised to consider a proposal to introduce similar security checks that apply for international flights including restrictions on liquids, identity checks and the introduction of full-body scanners.
The Weekend Australian understands the new security measures, a direct response to the alleged terror plot to blow up an Etihad flight from Sydney to Abu Dhabi on July 15, could also include a prohibition on people being allowed to pass through domestic security barriers without a boarding pass.

I have believed for quite a while that it was only a matter of time before AU followed Europe and US in restricting security access in domestic terminals to boarding pass holders only. In many respects, this makes sense but it does have massive implications for the airports which generally have their retail concessions airside except for T3 in MEL which is more an accident of history than a deliberate design feature.

These changes were introduced in US and Schengen Europe without much pushback. One positive outcome of this change would be much reduced queues for security.

qf2048 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:03 am

Fly Corporate have announced direct weekday flights between OAG and MEB Essendon. Flights begin October 9th.

http://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/s ... ce/?cs=103

smi0006 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:27 am

tullamarine wrote:
Update on the Etihad terrorist plot, note that it was originally planned for July 15 and some of the details known now are extremely disturbing

It is expected that domestic flights will now have similar security checks to international flights

A dramatic security clampdown will be imposed at domestic airport terminals, with cabinet poised to consider a proposal to introduce similar security checks that apply for international flights including restrictions on liquids, identity checks and the introduction of full-body scanners.
The Weekend Australian understands the new security measures, a direct response to the alleged terror plot to blow up an Etihad flight from Sydney to Abu Dhabi on July 15, could also include a prohibition on people being allowed to pass through domestic security barriers without a boarding pass.

I have believed for quite a while that it was only a matter of time before AU followed Europe and US in restricting security access in domestic terminals to boarding pass holders only. In many respects, this makes sense but it does have massive implications for the airports which generally have their retail concessions airside except for T3 in MEL which is more an accident of history than a deliberate design feature.

These changes were introduced in US and Schengen Europe without much pushback. One positive outcome of this change would be much reduced queues for security.

As a self confessed armchair security and intelligence with no training but a degree or reading and studying - I personally see minimal value in airport security being upped to boarding pass holders domestically. Equally I see little to no value in LAGS requirements internationally - can a colostomy bag be detected by metal detector? Money is best spent of intelligence and stopping people reaching and working in airports. Whilst we have seen a shift away from organised networks to more home grown radicalisation - airline staff are not best placed to pick up fraudulent forms of ID. Internationally border force are, but there is no safeguard for domestic.

If screening is sufficiently effective what is the difference in a domestic terminal if a non-traveler clears security?

LamboAston · Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:09 am

undertheradar wrote:
LamboAston wrote:
undertheradar wrote:

I agree redroo. So you DO/DON'T look like your ID pic?. BIG DEAL. IDs can be still valid AFTER 10YEARS..Peoples 'looks' can 'change' over time'!!! THIS ACHIEVES NOTHING in terms of WHAT the person CARRIES ON THEM/WITH THEM, WHICH IS WHAT WILL DO THE DAMAGE, REGARDLESS of their ID PIC. 100% SCREENING FOR EVERYONE, INCLUDING WORKERS. AND EVERYTHING, INCLUDING BAGS, VEHICLES ETC, WHICH ENTERS ANY AIRPORT AIRSIDE ZONE. Sadly this will never happen as EVERYTHING involving SAFETY is done on a COST V BENEFIT analysis, and ONLY REACTIVE (AFTER AN EVENT), AND NOT PROACTIVE (TO PREVENT AN EVENT)..SAME OLD STORY..MONETARY COST TO BUSINESSES OVERRIDE HUMAN LIVES!!...THE MONETARY COST WILL BE PASSED ON TO THE PUBLIC, AND THE CHEAP ARSE PUBLIC HATE THAT. ITS THE CIRCLE OF LIFE!! LOL What i'm saying is...HUMAN GREED RULES EVERYTHING, SO NOTHING REALLY CHANGES.

No need to shout. IDs are still good after 20 years, as even though people's looks change, the distance between their eyes and bottom of nose/mouth doesn't. This is what passport officers use to check.

I am of a generation where the use of caps is to EMPHASIZE, not shout, as per the current LOOK AT ME generation
And I suppose I should have made more clear, that I was responding to a post which was referring to gate checking of ID by airline staff at domestic terminals. Not passport control at international terminals. Thanks

I was only using passport control as an example. I know it was for domestic.

redroo · Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:03 am

qf789 wrote:
EY455 SYD-AUH declined take off clearance earlier tonight as a passenger suffered from a heart related medical emergency, EY455 taxied back to the gate to seek medical assistance for the passenger. The flight eventually departed missing the curfew from 1 minute

Are you saying they took off without clearance?

LamboAston · Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:50 am

redroo wrote:
qf789 wrote:
EY455 SYD-AUH declined take off clearance earlier tonight as a passenger suffered from a heart related medical emergency, EY455 taxied back to the gate to seek medical assistance for the passenger. The flight eventually departed missing the curfew from 1 minute

Are you saying they took off without clearance?

No, they took off at 10:59. They did not takeoff the first time, just did a high speed taxi along the runway to get back to the gate to offload the medical passenger. They were given takeoff clearance, but rejected it.

qf789 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:57 pm

A US military helicopter has crashed off the Queensland coast

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia ... spartanntp

QF29 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:49 pm

Was wondering if anyone could provide me with any insight here.

I'm trying to book a QF rewards ticket ex MEL to Singapore. I've given two options, Direct on JQ7 or via Sydney on QF5 on the 15th of Sep. While mucking around I tried PER to SIN. Interestingly an option came up via MEL on the direct QF35, the flight I'm after. Why can I book it ex PER and not MEL? Is there anywhere around this?

Ryanair01 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:38 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
I honestly don't get it. The intelligence services did their job well and caught them. THAT is what keeps us safe, not security theatre that's designed to make passengers feel safer, not actually increase security. I still live in hope that calmer heads will prevail in Australia and that we won't have US/UK style security.

I could take that point of view but that's not what really happened here. The initial bomb made it to Sydney Airport on 15th July and was never intercepted by security. The authorities are evasive about how come the bomb wasn't loaded, but we know that it wasn't picked up by security (so probably they decided against checking it in). It was not until some time after this that foreign authorities came to know about the second plot and then the first.

So to claim the Australian authorities did a good job here is to me is a massive stretch of the facts. It's luck that EY451 on 15th July didn't end the same way as PA103. That is not consistent with the authorities doing a good job. I have to say it worries me that foreign intelligence have a better idea of what's happening in Surry Hills than the Australian Authorities. That feels like a situation where the airports and airlines need to protect themselves a bit seriously because the authorities are missing things, the authorities didn't prevent the bombing of EY451 - we got lucky.

RyanairGuru · Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:19 pm

QF29 wrote:
Was wondering if anyone could provide me with any insight here.

I'm trying to book a QF rewards ticket ex MEL to Singapore. I've given two options, Direct on JQ7 or via Sydney on QF5 on the 15th of Sep. While mucking around I tried PER to SIN. Interestingly an option came up via MEL on the direct QF35, the flight I'm after. Why can I book it ex PER and not MEL? Is there anywhere around this?

Call them. The Qantas website is IMHO ***USELESS*** for Frequent Flyer redemption bookings, and this is yet another example. If it can sell you PER-MEL-SIN then logic says that X is available MEL-SIN, so they would be able to fix it up for you over the phone. It's worth the $60 phone service fee (I'll save that rant for another time). Time and again I have had situations where the website has either given me rediculous options or none at all, but give them a call and suddenly all sorts of options are available. It drives me up the bend. The redemption tool online is really only useful for domestic bookings.

jbflyguy84 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:53 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
If it can sell you PER-MEL-SIN then logic says that X is available MEL-SIN

Although what you say is strictly true, from the inventory management side, they may not want to sell that flight to a local joining MEL passenger or -and is more likely - they are trying to push the demand to JQ and hence the system will display only JQ or QF via SYD. Perhaps PER-SIN direct flight is full so via MEL is next best option and hence will restrict the booking to non-MEL origins.

I totally disagree with this kind of demand control (they should at least offer full Y/C fares ex MEL), but they may see a higher revenue upside selling from PER.

Still, maybe their website is just crap and should call as you recommended, but as someone involved in RM and Inv Mgmt, this more sounds like pure RM rather than poor systems

RyanairGuru · Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:24 pm

jbflyguy84 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
If it can sell you PER-MEL-SIN then logic says that X is available MEL-SIN

Although what you say is strictly true, from the inventory management side, they may not want to sell that flight to a local joining MEL passenger or -and is more likely - they are trying to push the demand to JQ and hence the system will display only JQ or QF via SYD. Perhaps PER-SIN direct flight is full so via MEL is next best option and hence will restrict the booking to non-MEL origins.
.../
Still, maybe their website is just crap and should call as you recommended, but as someone involved in RM and Inv Mgmt, this more sounds like pure RM rather than poor systems

Generally speaking I would agree if we were referring to revenue tickets, but redemption tickets shouldn't be yield/marriage restricted.

You're most likely correct that they want to push JQ and QF5, both of which would almost certainly go out with a yield disadvantage to QF35, but human interaction should be able to override that if X is available on that flight.

jbflyguy84 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:45 pm

RyanairGuru wrote:
jbflyguy84 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
If it can sell you PER-MEL-SIN then logic says that X is available MEL-SIN

Although what you say is strictly true, from the inventory management side, they may not want to sell that flight to a local joining MEL passenger or -and is more likely - they are trying to push the demand to JQ and hence the system will display only JQ or QF via SYD. Perhaps PER-SIN direct flight is full so via MEL is next best option and hence will restrict the booking to non-MEL origins.
.../
Still, maybe their website is just crap and should call as you recommended, but as someone involved in RM and Inv Mgmt, this more sounds like pure RM rather than poor systems

Generally speaking I would agree if we were referring to revenue tickets, but redemption tickets shouldn't be yield/marriage restricted.

You're most likely correct that they want to push JQ and QF5, both of which would almost certainly go out with a yield disadvantage to QF35, but human interaction should be able to override that if X is available on that flight.

Ah I missed the redemption ticket part, then you are totally right. Very strange indeed

Singapore 777 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:26 pm

QF29 wrote:
I'm trying to book a QF rewards ticket ex MEL to Singapore. I've given two options, Direct on JQ7 or via Sydney on QF5 on the 15th of Sep. While mucking around I tried PER to SIN. Interestingly an option came up via MEL on the direct QF35, the flight I'm after. Why can I book it ex PER and not MEL? Is there anywhere around this?

I seem to remember that ex-East Coast fares only allow routings to SIN via other East Coast cities (SYD/BNE) and not via PER. That could be the reason why you can't book MEL-PER-SIN unless booking as two separate fares (MEL-PER and then PER-SIN), which may increase the cost.

jbflyguy84 · Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:46 pm

Singapore 777 wrote:
QF29 wrote:
I'm trying to book a QF rewards ticket ex MEL to Singapore. I've given two options, Direct on JQ7 or via Sydney on QF5 on the 15th of Sep. While mucking around I tried PER to SIN. Interestingly an option came up via MEL on the direct QF35, the flight I'm after. Why can I book it ex PER and not MEL? Is there anywhere around this?

I seem to remember that ex-East Coast fares only allow routings to SIN via other East Coast cities (SYD/BNE) and not via PER. That could be the reason why you can't book MEL-PER-SIN unless booking as two separate fares (MEL-PER and then PER-SIN), which may increase the cost.

They're booking MEL-SIN, they can't get the flight they wants directly from MEL but they can if they originate in PER and travel PER-MEL-SIN

MooLor · Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:15 am

Ryanair01 wrote:
RyanairGuru wrote:
I honestly don't get it. The intelligence services did their job well and caught them. THAT is what keeps us safe, not security theatre that's designed to make passengers feel safer, not actually increase security. I still live in hope that calmer heads will prevail in Australia and that we won't have US/UK style security.

I could take that point of view but that's not what really happened here. The initial bomb made it to Sydney Airport on 15th July and was never intercepted by security. The authorities are evasive about how come the bomb wasn't loaded, but we know that it wasn't picked up by security (so probably they decided against checking it in). It was not until some time after this that foreign authorities came to know about the second plot and then the first.

So to claim the Australian authorities did a good job here is to me is a massive stretch of the facts. It's luck that EY451 on 15th July didn't end the same way as PA103. That is not consistent with the authorities doing a good job. I have to say it worries me that foreign intelligence have a better idea of what's happening in Surry Hills than the Australian Authorities. That feels like a situation where the airports and airlines need to protect themselves a bit seriously because the authorities are missing things, the authorities didn't prevent the bombing of EY451 - we got lucky.

I personally don't believe we should be mentioning the airline / flight involved - they are the innocent party in an aborted terrorism attempt.

Reports say the bag was never checked in, so security was not tested.

The passenger was queried about the weight of the luggage at the check-in counter and learnt it was too heavy. The bag was never checked in or carried on the plane.

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/sydney-terrorist-plot-bid-to-smuggle-bomb-through-airport-thwarted-at-checkin-20170803-gxodlz.html

The AFP say they built a mock device and tested airport security with it:

On July 26, UK and US intelligence agencies tipped off their counterparts in Australia about the alleged plot ...
Around that time, authorities said they built a mock IED and tested whether it could get through airport security. It didn't.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-04/sydney-terror-plot-how-islamic-state-allegedly-infiltrated/8774844

I read elsewhere it was 'multiple tests', so presumably that was at multiple airports - rest easy/er, MEL.

Would security have detected devices using these ... ingredients 100% of the time given multiple attempted attacks? Not likely IMHO.

... it is likely it was the same explosive repeatedly used by Al Qaeda in a series of bomb plots targeting the US —PETN (pentaerythritol tetranitrate).
PETN is valued by terrorists because it is hard to detect...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-04/sydney-bombs-destined-for-aircraft-make-governments-take-notice/8775168

Should we implement a system where passengers and luggage are screened on entry to the terminal as happens in other major airports? I believe so, yes. And yes, extend that to domestic. Will this stop all threats? No. But these potential perpetrators are mostly amateurs. Sweaty-palmed nervous amateurs. And there is an opportunity right there to identify some threats, with the right training.

USAOZ · Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:17 am

Anyone heard anything about new international passenger flights out of Wellcamp over xmas school holidays?

aerokiwi · Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:20 am

qf2048 wrote:
Fly Corporate have announced direct weekday flights between OAG and MEB Essendon. Flights begin October 9th.

http://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/s ... ce/?cs=103

I'm loving all these Essendon developments.

So am I correct in saying the following are/will be the RPT services out of MEB?
- Portland (Sharp Airlines, Metro)
- Wollongong (Jetgo, E140)
- Orange (Fly Corporate, ???)

Are there others? Great to see more scheduled ops from the facility. I'd love to see Mildura, Albury, Sydney and Adelaide. Jetgo or Air North E-jets could create a really good niche I reckon. Not sure about other Victorian destinations but some link to the further reaches of Gippsland would be useful, even if just a Chieften or some such.

smi0006 · Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:28 am

aerokiwi wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Fly Corporate have announced direct weekday flights between OAG and MEB Essendon. Flights begin October 9th.

http://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/s ... ce/?cs=103

I'm loving all these Essendon developments.

So am I correct in saying the following are/will be the RPT services out of MEB?
- Portland (Sharp Airlines, Metro)
- Wollongong (Jetgo, E140)
- Orange (Fly Corporate, ???)

Are there others? Great to see more scheduled ops from the facility. I'd love to see Mildura, Albury, Sydney and Adelaide. Jetgo or Air North E-jets could create a really good niche I reckon. Not sure about other Victorian destinations but some link to the further reaches of Gippsland would be useful, even if just a Chieften or some such.

I agree! It's exciting to see more regional expansion. Just a pity AVV and MEB are in such awkward locations - be great to see MEL have some competition from another airport! But glad to see MEB expanding - do any of these flights require screening?

Also saw an Air North flight take off ex-MEL how are they doing?

qf789 · Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:36 am

Ryanair01 wrote:

I could take that point of view but that's not what really happened here. The initial bomb made it to Sydney Airport on 15th July and was never intercepted by security. The authorities are evasive about how come the bomb wasn't loaded, but we know that it wasn't picked up by security (so probably they decided against checking it in). It was not until some time after this that foreign authorities came to know about the second plot and then the first.

The initial bomb was never intercepted by security as the bag it was in was too heavy and required to be checked in

qf789 · Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:54 am

MooLor wrote:

I personally don't believe we should be mentioning the airline / flight involved - they are the innocent party in an aborted terrorism attempt.

Why, once the destination that the flight was heading for it would be easy to work out anyway. While they were the innocent party involved they could make the best of the situation and review all of their security measures. While what I am about to suggest wouldn't have changed the current situation it does bring up something that may the travelling public feel safer. There is currently one international airline that flies to Australia has 2 security guards with one standing on the bridge and one that is down below doing extra checks on bags then supervising them being loaded into the aircraft. The guard on the bridge stands at the door of the aircraft from the time the aircraft opens its door to the time its closed for its next flight. Anyone that goes on that aircraft in that time is required to produce ID or they don't get on. I have heard engineers have been denied access for not providing ID's. Perhaps something like this make give travellers piece of mind along with the increase security within the terminal

USAOZ · Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:03 am

aerokiwi wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Fly Corporate have announced direct weekday flights between OAG and MEB Essendon. Flights begin October 9th.

http://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/s ... ce/?cs=103

I'm loving all these Essendon developments.

So am I correct in saying the following are/will be the RPT services out of MEB?
- Portland (Sharp Airlines, Metro)
- Wollongong (Jetgo, E140)
- Orange (Fly Corporate, ???)

Are there others? Great to see more scheduled ops from the facility. I'd love to see Mildura, Albury, Sydney and Adelaide. Jetgo or Air North E-jets could create a really good niche I reckon. Not sure about other Victorian destinations but some link to the further reaches of Gippsland would be useful, even if just a Chieften or some such.

Australian air holidays are apparently trying to lease a dash 8 to operate out of meb for their many charters which sometimes go for a week

AsiaTravel · Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:00 am

https://twitter.com/AeroimagesChris/status/894057388814106625

qf2048 · Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:59 am

aerokiwi wrote:
qf2048 wrote:
Fly Corporate have announced direct weekday flights between OAG and MEB Essendon. Flights begin October 9th.

http://www.centralwesterndaily.com.au/s ... ce/?cs=103

I'm loving all these Essendon developments.

So am I correct in saying the following are/will be the RPT services out of MEB?
- Portland (Sharp Airlines, Metro)
- Wollongong (Jetgo, E140)
- Orange (Fly Corporate, ???)

Are there others? Great to see more scheduled ops from the facility. I'd love to see Mildura, Albury, Sydney and Adelaide. Jetgo or Air North E-jets could create a really good niche I reckon. Not sure about other Victorian destinations but some link to the further reaches of Gippsland would be useful, even if just a Chieften or some such.

-Orange Fly Corporate SF340B. Continuation of the BNE-OAG as per their updated timetable. Routing will be BNE-OAG-MEB-OAG-BNE

-Jetgo also fly to MEB from DBO

link to Essendon airport timetable-
http://www.essendonairport.com.au/aviat ... al-flights

log0008 · Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:13 am

Sharp also serve Warrnambool (opperates MEB - WMB - PTJ - WMB - MEB) and Flinders and King Island.

aerokiwi · Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:02 pm

qf2048 wrote:
link to Essendon airport timetable-
http://www.essendonairport.com.au/aviat ... al-flights

Fantastic resource, thanks qf2048.

Not quite humming at MEB but a nice little mix of destinations. Makes you think as you take the bend on the Tulla en route to MEL and you slow to a crawl knowing it's another 30 minutes just to dropoff at MEL.

Qantas16 · Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:57 am

Jetstar has today announced new direct flights to Adelaide will take off later this year, the only services between the two cities.

Up to 55,000 people are expected to travel annually on the new Hobart to Adelaide flights, which will operate three times per week from 14 November.

Jetstar Group Chief Commercial Officer, Catriona Larritt, said Jetstar will be the only airline to connect the two cities.

“Thousands of travellers already fly from Hobart to Adelaide via Melbourne, so we are excited to offer direct low-fares between the two cities, making it even easier to travel.

“Both Hobart and Adelaide are experiencing record tourism numbers, and we expect inbound tourism to the two cities to further strengthen with the addition of our new direct flights.

“Tasmanians love our low fares and last year alone, Jetstar transported over 2 million customers in and out of Tasmania and 70 per cent of those passengers flew for under a $100. That’s 1.3 million fares sold for under $100.”

Premier of Tasmania, Will Hodgman, said: “Jetstar are continuing to show great confidence in Tasmania and I acknowledge the hard work of the Hobart and Adelaide airports, as well as Tourism Tasmania and the South Australian Tourism Commission for working together to secure this new air link”.

Adelaide marks the fifth destination that Jetstar flies to from Hobart, and offers travellers the opportunity to enjoy the city’s world-class festivals, eco-adventures and nearby wine regions.

Jetstar operates more flights to and from Tasmania than any other airline with 170 weekly services, 65 of those from Hobart. Combined with the Qantas Group we serve 3 destinations in Tasmania connecting our customers to the groups’ extensive domestic and international network.

A recent economic study conducted by Deloitte showed the Qantas Group contributed $368 million to the Tasmanian economy in 2016.

To celebrate the announcement, the airline is having a 12-hour sale and customers will be able to purchase fares from $59* one way. The regular lead in fares will be $65.

The total number of visitors holidaying in Tasmania during the year ending March 2017 was 620,900, up 13 per cent compared to the previous year.

Source: http://newsroom.jetstar.com/jetstar-ann ... -adelaide/

Great news for ADL, HBA and JQ. Good to see JQ starting to launch some new 'secondary' routes (like this and MCY-ADL)

zkncj · Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:30 am

What restrictions are there with MEB? Assuming that it couldn't take an A320/738 service?

If it could would an LCC be allow to operate from there, rather an AVV?

Qantas16 · Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:18 am

zkncj wrote:
What restrictions are there with MEB? Assuming that it couldn't take an A320/738 service?

If it could would an LCC be allow to operate from there, rather an AVV?

08/26 is 1921x45m which is more than enough to handle an A320/738 going domestically, however, it would require expanded terminal facilities and also increase the nightmare that is the MEL/MEB air traffic control area.

Add to that the political consequences, it's not going to happen.

EK413 · Mon Aug 07, 2017 10:57 am

The 1st QFLink Q300 VH-SBB is scheduled to arrive SYD tonight 22:40 from TSV with fresh coat of paint.

EK413

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