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jgcotter
Posts: 1232
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 16, 2022 10:26 pm

Does anyone have insight into why the last five of the 20 E175s OO bought to operate for Eagle out of LAX have been parked at MCN following OO induction? Is it a scope issue due to the 787 delay? AA has brought in 10 used E170s, with the smaller seat count, for Envoy, which would be under scope, but I’m just curious. There have also been rumors of YX moving some of their E170s from DL and UA over to Eagle.
 
GVZZZ
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:21 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 17, 2022 12:32 am

Some YX E170 are already flying for Eagle. 806, 821,826, 867, 869, 870-4 at least.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3232
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 17, 2022 8:17 am

jgcotter wrote:
Does anyone have insight into why the last five of the 20 E175s OO bought to operate for Eagle out of LAX have been parked at MCN following OO induction? Is it a scope issue due to the 787 delay? AA has brought in 10 used E170s, with the smaller seat count, for Envoy, which would be under scope, but I’m just curious. There have also been rumors of YX moving some of their E170s from DL and UA over to Eagle.


SkyWest is crew limited. LAX is running at full strength actually on the Eagle side (30 flights is their new normal), the ones that are parked are allocated to PHX, they will be returning to service starting in June. I think that'll bring them up to just 4 parked which are crew limited. There are/were 10 parked (1 in LAX, 1 in PHX, rest in MCN and BOI I believe).

The parked planes still count against scope as they are still covered under a CPA.
 
Bear242
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:54 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 19, 2022 3:37 pm

AF9387 from Clermont-Ferrand https://fr24.com/AFR9387/2b8bee00
Another E170 for Envoy
 
GVZZZ
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:21 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:04 pm

Bear242 wrote:
AF9387 from Clermont-Ferrand https://fr24.com/AFR9387/2b8bee00
Another E170 for Envoy


Envoy are certainly picking up some [relatively] very old '170s!

F-HBXO has also been at Clermont-Ferrand since 4th March, wonder if that is next. Like 'XK above it's one of six ex Alitalia Cityliner E170s in the Hop fleet.
 
N383SW
Posts: 160
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Tue Apr 19, 2022 11:06 pm

GVZZZ wrote:
Bear242 wrote:
AF9387 from Clermont-Ferrand https://fr24.com/AFR9387/2b8bee00
Another E170 for Envoy


Envoy are certainly picking up some [relatively] very old '170s!

F-HBXO has also been at Clermont-Ferrand since 4th March, wonder if that is next. Like 'XK above it's one of six ex Alitalia Cityliner E170s in the Hop fleet.

I was given the honor of flying on of MQ’s “new” 170’s a few weeks ago (in Main Cabin), full flight and I don’t know if it’s just me or if that was a one off type of row but the leg room was horrid! I’ve flown on MQ and OO 175’s and it was nowhere near that cramped. It almost made the Kodiak -800’s feel like premium
Economy lol.
 
alasizon
Posts: 3232
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 20, 2022 2:14 am

N383SW wrote:
GVZZZ wrote:
Bear242 wrote:
AF9387 from Clermont-Ferrand https://fr24.com/AFR9387/2b8bee00
Another E170 for Envoy


Envoy are certainly picking up some [relatively] very old '170s!

F-HBXO has also been at Clermont-Ferrand since 4th March, wonder if that is next. Like 'XK above it's one of six ex Alitalia Cityliner E170s in the Hop fleet.

I was given the honor of flying on of MQ’s “new” 170’s a few weeks ago (in Main Cabin), full flight and I don’t know if it’s just me or if that was a one off type of row but the leg room was horrid! I’ve flown on MQ and OO 175’s and it was nowhere near that cramped. It almost made the Kodiak -800’s feel like premium
Economy lol.


Seats are spaced the exact same as the E75.
 
n797mx
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:36 am

Bear242 wrote:
AF9387 from Clermont-Ferrand https://fr24.com/AFR9387/2b8bee00
Another E170 for Envoy

Not saying they won't eventually get it, but that one is not currently on my list of future aircraft.
 
n797mx
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 20, 2022 4:40 am

alasizon wrote:
N383SW wrote:
GVZZZ wrote:

Envoy are certainly picking up some [relatively] very old '170s!

F-HBXO has also been at Clermont-Ferrand since 4th March, wonder if that is next. Like 'XK above it's one of six ex Alitalia Cityliner E170s in the Hop fleet.

I was given the honor of flying on of MQ’s “new” 170’s a few weeks ago (in Main Cabin), full flight and I don’t know if it’s just me or if that was a one off type of row but the leg room was horrid! I’ve flown on MQ and OO 175’s and it was nowhere near that cramped. It almost made the Kodiak -800’s feel like premium
Economy lol.


Seats are spaced the exact same as the E75.

Actually, they're not. AC side is 6 rows at 34", 6 rows at 31" while the CD side is 2 rows at 34" and 11 rows at 30"
 
alasizon
Posts: 3232
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 20, 2022 6:03 am

n797mx wrote:
alasizon wrote:
N383SW wrote:
I was given the honor of flying on of MQ’s “new” 170’s a few weeks ago (in Main Cabin), full flight and I don’t know if it’s just me or if that was a one off type of row but the leg room was horrid! I’ve flown on MQ and OO 175’s and it was nowhere near that cramped. It almost made the Kodiak -800’s feel like premium
Economy lol.


Seats are spaced the exact same as the E75.

Actually, they're not. AC side is 6 rows at 34", 6 rows at 31" while the CD side is 2 rows at 34" and 11 rows at 30"


I'm pretty sure all the Envoy aircraft have main cabin strictly at 30" which is the same as the 175. I believe only Republic had 31" pitch on the AC side. I'm aware of the staggering but the pitch should be the same as the E75.
 
Bear242
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Wed Apr 20, 2022 8:48 pm

Do anyone have any idea how much E170 American Airlines is planning on getting for Envoy to operate or is it as much as they can find ?????
 
alasizon
Posts: 3232
Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2007 8:57 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:41 am

Bear242 wrote:
Do anyone have any idea how much E170 American Airlines is planning on getting for Envoy to operate or is it as much as they can find ?????


I would expect AA is in the market for every E170 out there. As the only carrier that can operate the E170 as a "small RJ" - the scope clause allows for a unique increase of premium seats in the regional market.
 
MarkATL
Posts: 502
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 10:07 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:02 am

Looks like the American Eagle PHX-ACV flight is history.
https://lostcoastoutpost.com/2022/apr/1 ... mboldt-ph/
 
sea13
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:58 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:46 am

Looks like it’ll be 2x a day to each PHX and DFW from SGU this summer. All flights operated by AE/OO on a CR7.
 
MLIAA
Posts: 453
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 11:08 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 22, 2022 3:06 pm

Bear242 wrote:
AF9387 from Clermont-Ferrand https://fr24.com/AFR9387/2b8bee00
Another E170 for Envoy


F-HBXK has since flown CFE-KEF-YYR-MKE-GYR. Are we sure this is coming to Eagle and not the scrapyard in Goodyear?
 
MO11
Posts: 2136
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 22, 2022 4:32 pm

MLIAA wrote:
Bear242 wrote:
AF9387 from Clermont-Ferrand https://fr24.com/AFR9387/2b8bee00
Another E170 for Envoy


F-HBXK has since flown CFE-KEF-YYR-MKE-GYR. Are we sure this is coming to Eagle and not the scrapyard in Goodyear?


Or option three: it's an AerCap airplane - most of which end up at GYR on lease return.
 
aaflyer222
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 24, 2022 2:22 am

is there any plan to make remaining mesa cr9 12f64y? not sure why there are 3 layouts as these aircraft only operate at aa and need updating.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 1285
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 5:42 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sun Apr 24, 2022 4:08 am

aaflyer222 wrote:
is there any plan to make remaining mesa cr9 12f64y? not sure why there are 3 layouts as these aircraft only operate at aa and need updating.


Someone else could probably comment more, but aren’t the Mesa CR9s a legacy exemption to the AA pilot scope from the US side of things? That’s probably why the company is loathe to poke the union on this one.
 
Bear242
Posts: 9
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:11 pm

Check out playback of aircraft N251NC from Tucson to Marana on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/aircraft/n251nc#2ba91edb
Could this E170 also be heading to Envoy Air ???
 
n797mx
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 30, 2022 2:53 am

Bear242 wrote:
Check out playback of aircraft N251NC from Tucson to Marana on Flightradar24. https://fr24.com/data/aircraft/n251nc#2ba91edb
Could this E170 also be heading to Envoy Air ???

All of the NAC owned Aeromexico E170s are heading to Envoy. Not immediately, but in time. N870NC should be ferrying to MZJ sometime in the next few weeks too.
 
jgcotter
Posts: 1232
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:29 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:13 am

E145 N677AE ferried from ABI to MZJ this morning for retirement.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/N677AE
 
jgcotter
Posts: 1232
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:29 am

E145 N671AE ferried from DFW to MZJ this morning for retirement.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/N671AE
 
KCaviator
Posts: 423
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Apr 30, 2022 3:08 pm

Bear242 wrote:
Do anyone have any idea how much E170 American Airlines is planning on getting for Envoy to operate or is it as much as they can find ?????


Republic has 30+ 170s they'd love to fly for American, as those will be available starting this fall. I can guarantee they will not be heading to Envoy as YX owns those aircraft.
 
jgcotter
Posts: 1232
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 04, 2022 10:43 pm

MQ E175 lost a right winglet in flight last night. https://avherald.com/h?article=4f84e603&opt=0
 
jgcotter
Posts: 1232
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Thu May 12, 2022 2:23 am

PT E145 N609DP ferried from ABI to MZJ this afternoon for retirement.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/N609DP
 
Bear242
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2021 4:54 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 17, 2022 12:24 pm

Do anyone have any idea why Envoy E170 N768RD hasn't enter into revenue service as yet ?????
 
n797mx
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 17, 2022 3:37 pm

Bear242 wrote:
Do anyone have any idea why Envoy E170 N768RD hasn't enter into revenue service as yet ?????

Still in conformity. Last I heard there was a part kit that was back ordered.
 
n797mx
Posts: 518
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:40 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Wed May 18, 2022 4:21 pm

N800, 801, and 814 have been removed from Envoy's opspecs. These aircraft were in ABI for maintenance training and were not flying, not sure of the status of these frames. All other E140s will remain on the opspecs until disposed of.
 
jgcotter
Posts: 1232
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Tue May 31, 2022 2:11 pm

MQ E145 N680AE is en route from ABI to MZJ for retirement.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/N680AE
 
aaflyer222
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 9:34 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 01, 2022 7:48 pm

jgcotter wrote:
MQ E145 N680AE is en route from ABI to MZJ for retirement.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/N680AE

any reason that mq is removing aircraft from 2004 now? 32 aircraft from 1998 and 1999 are still flying at mq and pt.
 
MO11
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:10 pm

n797mx wrote:
N800, 801, and 814 have been removed from Envoy's opspecs. These aircraft were in ABI for maintenance training and were not flying, not sure of the status of these frames.


They were sold on May 16. Don't know to whom (i.e. placed in trust).
 
MLIAA
Posts: 453
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Thu Jun 02, 2022 12:01 am

aaflyer222 wrote:
jgcotter wrote:
MQ E145 N680AE is en route from ABI to MZJ for retirement.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/N680AE

any reason that mq is removing aircraft from 2004 now? 32 aircraft from 1998 and 1999 are still flying at mq and pt.


Envoy is parking 145s as their heavy checks come up, no matter the age. The idea is to prioritize staffing the 175 operation.
 
arc727
Posts: 9
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:56 pm

MLIAA wrote:
aaflyer222 wrote:
jgcotter wrote:
MQ E145 N680AE is en route from ABI to MZJ for retirement.
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/N680AE

any reason that mq is removing aircraft from 2004 now? 32 aircraft from 1998 and 1999 are still flying at mq and pt.


Envoy is parking 145s as their heavy checks come up, no matter the age. The idea is to prioritize staffing the 175 operation.


So are these aircraft permanently retired or just temporarily parked?
 
MLIAA
Posts: 453
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:28 pm

arc727 wrote:
MLIAA wrote:
aaflyer222 wrote:
any reason that mq is removing aircraft from 2004 now? 32 aircraft from 1998 and 1999 are still flying at mq and pt.


Envoy is parking 145s as their heavy checks come up, no matter the age. The idea is to prioritize staffing the 175 operation.


So are these aircraft permanently retired or just temporarily parked?


They will be parked until Envoy can properly staff them again, but that could be years from now, if ever. While it hasn’t been announced as “permanent”, it very well could be.
 
User avatar
Web500sjc
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:43 pm

American Eagle carriers Envoy and Piedmont have agreed to raise pilot wages significantly.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... ract-deal/

A letter from the VP of operations at Piedmont, “With the supportability premium, our pilot wages will be 50-70% higher (57% on average) than the next highest paid regional carrier, Endeavor,” the letter said. “Including all bonuses, a new hire pilot should expect to make 31% more than pilots at Endeavor and 10% more than pilots at leading ultra-low-cost carriers (ULCCs) over the first five years.”


Very similar deal at Envoy.
 
KCaviator
Posts: 423
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:57 pm

Web500sjc wrote:
American Eagle carriers Envoy and Piedmont have agreed to raise pilot wages significantly.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed/20 ... ract-deal/

A letter from the VP of operations at Piedmont, “With the supportability premium, our pilot wages will be 50-70% higher (57% on average) than the next highest paid regional carrier, Endeavor,” the letter said. “Including all bonuses, a new hire pilot should expect to make 31% more than pilots at Endeavor and 10% more than pilots at leading ultra-low-cost carriers (ULCCs) over the first five years.”


Very similar deal at Envoy.


This is huge, as pay now directly competes and exceeds ULCC's. I work at a non-wholly owned AE carrier, and this is both good and bad news for us. Good IF, and that's a big IF, the Union can use this as leverage. Bad, and really BAD, if the Union can't pull something together quickly. Our attrition is atrocious right now and this will only exacerbate it.

Good to see AA has finally realized they need to do something about attrition. Hopefully others will follow. If not, you'll be seeing the last of some regionals here shortly.
 
JohanTally
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 2:27 pm

With this agreement through 2029 I really wonder what Piedmont expects to be flying at this point because the E145 fleet will be in the desert by then most likely.
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 390
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:37 pm

JohanTally wrote:
With this agreement through 2029 I really wonder what Piedmont expects to be flying at this point because the E145 fleet will be in the desert by then most likely.


This agreement just makes me suspect it is more likely that the ultimate play is to fold Envoy and Piedmont together. As the 145 fleet winds down, those pilots will more easily transition to the 170/175 and whatever else may be around to replace the 50 seat flying.
 
JohanTally
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:58 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
With this agreement through 2029 I really wonder what Piedmont expects to be flying at this point because the E145 fleet will be in the desert by then most likely.


This agreement just makes me suspect it is more likely that the ultimate play is to fold Envoy and Piedmont together. As the 145 fleet winds down, those pilots will more easily transition to the 170/175 and whatever else may be around to replace the 50 seat flying.

How much nostalgia does AA have towards the Envoy brand because I doubt they want to lose the Piedmont namesake?
 
brooklynchris13
Posts: 390
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:11 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:42 pm

JohanTally wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
With this agreement through 2029 I really wonder what Piedmont expects to be flying at this point because the E145 fleet will be in the desert by then most likely.


This agreement just makes me suspect it is more likely that the ultimate play is to fold Envoy and Piedmont together. As the 145 fleet winds down, those pilots will more easily transition to the 170/175 and whatever else may be around to replace the 50 seat flying.

How much nostalgia does AA have towards the Envoy brand because I doubt they want to lose the Piedmont namesake?


Thats a good point. Envoy may be the surviving entity, but I think you are right that Piedmont might the name that entity has. There is no real tradition/history with Envoy.
 
USAirKid
Posts: 1285
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:01 pm

brooklynchris13 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:

This agreement just makes me suspect it is more likely that the ultimate play is to fold Envoy and Piedmont together. As the 145 fleet winds down, those pilots will more easily transition to the 170/175 and whatever else may be around to replace the 50 seat flying.

How much nostalgia does AA have towards the Envoy brand because I doubt they want to lose the Piedmont namesake?


Thats a good point. Envoy may be the surviving entity, but I think you are right that Piedmont might the name that entity has. There is no real tradition/history with Envoy.


Envoy has never been a marketing brand, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see the surviving name be Piedmont to help preserve the trademark, that’s why Henson airlines was renamed Piedmont. On the other hand, Envoy might be the surviving brand, as the Piedmont trademark is preserved through the heritage jet, and Envoy is a more modern less regional name. The lack of a tradition/history may be a benefit, as it slightly obscures the troubles of the regional business.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 876
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:08 pm

USAirKid wrote:
brooklynchris13 wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
How much nostalgia does AA have towards the Envoy brand because I doubt they want to lose the Piedmont namesake?


Thats a good point. Envoy may be the surviving entity, but I think you are right that Piedmont might the name that entity has. There is no real tradition/history with Envoy.


Envoy has never been a marketing brand, so I wouldn’t be surprised to see the surviving name be Piedmont to help preserve the trademark, that’s why Henson airlines was renamed Piedmont. On the other hand, Envoy might be the surviving brand, as the Piedmont trademark is preserved through the heritage jet, and Envoy is a more modern less regional name. The lack of a tradition/history may be a benefit, as it slightly obscures the troubles of the regional business.

Having the heritage livery on an AA 319 is enough to prevent another airline from using the Piedmont name?
 
mikejepp
Posts: 278
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:47 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:45 pm

There is no way it makes financial sense to pay regional pilots that much to fly 50 seat planes at $100+/barrel oil when you could be paying them the same to fly A320s and 737s. Is it even possible for the airline to show a profit on these flights under these circumstances? What are the chances that this is the beginning of the end of the regional airline outsourcing business model? Not to mention there are not really any new RJs being built as replacements and, with a limited supply of pilots, you want them flying as many passengers as possible per flight. Is this deal just a stop-gap measure to allow a few years to wind-down the whole regional airline operation?

Especially considering the fact that other regionals will, no doubt, match these pay raises and therefore eliminate the advantage Piedmont/Envoy have in retention... now you're back to where you started but paying much much more. I've read Endeavor is already in talks with management about this and I'm sure others too.

The whole regional model was built on the idea that there were more pilots than there were jobs and they could, therefore, take advantage of these pilots' eagerness to work and build hours and consequently pay them poverty wages. The airlines did that long enough that word got out and fewer people started becoming pilots and now the whole thing is backfiring. The environment of cheap, exploitable pilot labor is now obviously over.
 
joeblow10
Posts: 738
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:58 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:02 pm

mikejepp wrote:
There is no way it makes financial sense to pay regional pilots that much to fly 50 seat planes at $100+/barrel oil when you could be paying them the same to fly A320s and 737s. Is it even possible for the airline to show a profit on these flights under these circumstances? What are the chances that this is the beginning of the end of the regional airline outsourcing business model? Not to mention there are not really any new RJs being built as replacements and, with a limited supply of pilots, you want them flying as many passengers as possible per flight. Is this deal just a stop-gap measure to allow a few years to wind-down the whole regional airline operation?

Especially considering the fact that other regionals will, no doubt, match these pay raises and therefore eliminate the advantage Piedmont/Envoy have in retention... now you're back to where you started but paying much much more. I've read Endeavor is already in talks with management about this and I'm sure others too.

The whole regional model was built on the idea that there were more pilots than there were jobs and they could, therefore, take advantage of these pilots' eagerness to work and build hours and consequently pay them poverty wages. The airlines did that long enough that word got out and fewer people started becoming pilots and now the whole thing is backfiring. The environment of cheap, exploitable pilot labor is now obviously over.


The assumption you mention that other regionals will match this increase is the big question that will have to be answered. At least from an outsider point of view, the only other regional that will likely immediately match this is Endeavor. Non wholly owned regionals have a very different “accounting” arrangement with the mainline companies, one that is going to be a lot harder to make huge pay increase work.

It seems that AA is willing to make regional flying a loss leader. It gets pilots in the door, and if they pay them enough, they will stick around long enough to fly for AA - perhaps for life. It also gets customers into their actually profitable network from smaller cities. So I agree - the economics don’t make a ton of sense on the surface, but it seems like this is a rather good solution to retaining pilots and customers. I bet Endeavor matches within a few months… but otherwise, it’s going to be tough for companies like Skywest or Mesa make this work unless the big guys up their cut.
 
USAirKid
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:13 pm

JohanTally wrote:
Having the heritage livery on an AA 319 is enough to prevent another airline from using the Piedmont name?


IANAL, but my understanding is all trademark law requires is use of the name in commerce, it doesn't require that the company be named after the trademark. Many companies own lots of trademarks outside of their company name.

FWIW, Standard Oil is still a protected trademark, although it was broken up 111 years ago in 1911. Through mergers its owned by ExxonMobil, Chevron Corp., and BP. Both BP and Chevron still have stations branded as Standard Oil in many states: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_ ... o_the_name

Although, apparently token use of a trademark doesn't protect it: https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/sta ... as-station However, I'm sure token use, such as a single plane or gas station, gives the trademark holder enough standing to get case into court and make the new user's life miserable, so that is enough to keep a new user from even attempting to use the protected name.

So yes, a single plane with the heritage livery, with the name Piedmont on the tail of the plane is, for practical purposes, enough to protect the trademark.

 
jplatts
Posts: 5852
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Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sat Jun 11, 2022 11:55 pm

USAirKid wrote:
So yes, a single plane with the heritage livery, with the name Piedmont on the tail of the plane is, for practical purposes, enough to protect the trademark.


In addition to AA having an Airbus A319 in the Piedmont heritage livery, AA also has the Piedmont name and logo on some American Eagle regional jets that are operated by PT, and here is a picture of one of the American Eagle regional jets that has the Piedmont logo to the left of the front left door:


American Airlines still owns the Piedmont Airlines trademark in the U.S. (with U.S. trademark registration numbers 1619084 and 1619085).
 
JohanTally
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:06 am

jplatts wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
So yes, a single plane with the heritage livery, with the name Piedmont on the tail of the plane is, for practical purposes, enough to protect the trademark.


In addition to AA having an Airbus A319 in the Piedmont heritage livery, AA also has the Piedmont name and logo on some American Eagle regional jets that are operated by PT, and here is a picture of one of the American Eagle regional jets that has the Piedmont logo to the left of the front left door:


American Airlines still owns the Piedmont Airlines trademark in the U.S. (with U.S. trademark registration numbers 1619084 and 1619085).

What we're discussing is what the remaining entity would be called after a hypothetical merger between MQ and PT. If they stopped operating Piedmont Airlines would the one heritage livery A319 be enough to keep the copyright?
 
DiamondFlyer
Posts: 3667
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:50 pm

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:17 am

JohanTally wrote:
jplatts wrote:
USAirKid wrote:
So yes, a single plane with the heritage livery, with the name Piedmont on the tail of the plane is, for practical purposes, enough to protect the trademark.


In addition to AA having an Airbus A319 in the Piedmont heritage livery, AA also has the Piedmont name and logo on some American Eagle regional jets that are operated by PT, and here is a picture of one of the American Eagle regional jets that has the Piedmont logo to the left of the front left door:


American Airlines still owns the Piedmont Airlines trademark in the U.S. (with U.S. trademark registration numbers 1619084 and 1619085).

What we're discussing is what the remaining entity would be called after a hypothetical merger between MQ and PT. If they stopped operating Piedmont Airlines would the one heritage livery A319 be enough to keep the copyright?


Keep Envoy as the airline, and keep Piedmont as the ground handling company, problem solved....
 
JohanTally
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:23 am

Two weeks ago in the AA network thread I posted that I was hearing rumblings of a potential merger within the wholly owned subsidiaries. I'm suspecting this recently announced joint pay increase and extension may have been part of the internal rumblings I was hearing. With all that said it seems like merging MQ and PT would be easier than ever before after this mornings news.
 
JohanTally
Posts: 876
Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:44 am

Re: American Eagle News and Discussion Thread

Sun Jun 12, 2022 12:30 am

DiamondFlyer wrote:
JohanTally wrote:
jplatts wrote:

In addition to AA having an Airbus A319 in the Piedmont heritage livery, AA also has the Piedmont name and logo on some American Eagle regional jets that are operated by PT, and here is a picture of one of the American Eagle regional jets that has the Piedmont logo to the left of the front left door:


American Airlines still owns the Piedmont Airlines trademark in the U.S. (with U.S. trademark registration numbers 1619084 and 1619085).

What we're discussing is what the remaining entity would be called after a hypothetical merger between MQ and PT. If they stopped operating Piedmont Airlines would the one heritage livery A319 be enough to keep the copyright?


Keep Envoy as the airline, and keep Piedmont as the ground handling company, problem solved....

They already have tried to differentiate Piedmont Airlines and their ramp services which is internally called Piedmont Ground Handling. Currently the same corporate HR group handles both PT and OH employee needs which changed in the last year or so.

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