• 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 10
 
77H
Posts: 1461
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:27 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:56 pm

MinnesotaPlanes wrote:
fsafsx wrote:
I think British air should go to Milwaukee or Minneapolis next.
Yesssssss. Maybe MN first though, since milwaukee is not as big.


MKE service would almost certainly cannibalize BA's existing ORD services. BA has an alliance/codeshare with AA who operates regional services to their ORD hub from multiple cities in Wisconsin and upper Midwest that undoubtedly help feed their flight. Customers from GRB, ATW and MSN would likely forgo connecting through ORD and drive/bus to MKE instead. Additionally, MKE is a very reasonable car/bus ride from ORD itself.

I think the question of slot allocation is a big one when discussing "2nd tier cities" receiving TATL service from BA. Unless operated out of LGW, is BA willing to use a precious LHR slot to operate a route like STL, MKE, MSP, IND ?

77H
 
flyguy89
Posts: 2567
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:43 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:24 pm

WWads wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:

Do you have any information on how much revenue it generates, if you do please list it. I am genuinely interested

DL could run IND-CDG and still ship parts to France for GE, because IND is much closer to the engine manufacturing/repair/assembly center in Lafayette than CVG is. DL could easily ship those parts made in Lafayette on the IND-CDG flight, and it would cut the transportation time/cost for GE. DL also has the corporate contracts in IND from the NWA focus city days, and could easily add other companies to the list who could put cargo in the belly. Just fyi, the data I am looking at showed the DL CDG-CVG also saw a drop in average LFs from 78% in 2015 to 69% in 2016 as well.

Not saying it would ever happen though.

The parts being shipped to France for CFM/Safran are manufactured in Evendale, OH, to which CVG is obviously closer. As to the flight's performance? The fact that DL has been running it more or less unchanged as a daily widebody the past few years, surviving the hub cuts, 2008 financial crisis, and Paris terror attacks strongly indicates that the flight is very likely a solid performer.


Ding ding ding. Cincy kick Indy's butt when it comes to air service demand. Period. We have a hub/focus city because the companies here are willing to pay for one. Indy doesn't because the companies there aren't willing to pay/aren't significant enough to justify one.

Of course I don't have access to the actual numbers, but logic dictates that DL's current CVG operation is doing quite well. There hasn't been any cuts since 2015, and DL has actually upgauged on many routes, with rumors that a few previously cut routes might be coming back. DL is willing to operate focus cities where it makes sense (see BOS and RDU). CVG makes sense, IND does not. Period. End it there.

Easy there, killer. I'm a confessed CVG fan and think the airport has a very bright future, but IND last year was nearly 2 million pax ahead of CVG, so I'm not sure "kicking Indy's butt when it comes to air service demand" is the right phrase.
 
klakzky123
Posts: 663
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:37 pm

fsafsx wrote:
I think British air should go to Milwaukee or Minneapolis next.


MSP has an LHR flight already so the airport won't offer any incentives or subsidies so BA will have better places to go. Plus, why would BA want to start a fare war with DL. MKE, probably encroaches on the existing operation at ORD so it probably doesn't really make sense.
 
Delta332
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 7:13 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:44 pm

CLT - makes the most sense. HOWEVER, BA has saturated the US market. They are almost everywhere....with feed from AA, why would they want to make another investment in the US. I think BA should focus on South America and Africa.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:56 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Midwestindy wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
I think it is perfectly fine and encouraging that people in various cities have civic boosterism. However, at some point reality has to set in. Not every city in the U.S. is going to get international flights, TATL or TPAC. More cities are likely to get service to Mexico, the Caribbean, and Latin America. No one wants to admit it about their own city is going to be left out, but it's obvious.


Tbh, every city on this list will have a TATL flight by 2019/2020, probably even multiple, but the discussion is basically who will have it first. I think if MEM is being considered, than virtually every US city is a possibility, at least with a A321LR.


Well, not every city mid-sized city deserves TATL service. Honestly, the only other mid-sized cities out there that don't already have TATL service that deserve it are IND, STL and maybe CMH (thought I don't think they deserve it, it is not quite as attractive as other places).

People that are talking about MKE, MEM and even MCI need to get real, those places are not attractive at all for TATL service. MKE is too close to ORD, MEM is quickly being dwarfed by BNA and MCI is in the middle of nowhere.

The big question now is, which mid-sized city that has or will have TATL service (AUS, RDU, MSY, BNA, CVG, IND, STL, CLT, etc) will be the first to get TPAC service. I think the focus will be shifting to that within a few years, after the TATL boom winds down.


I think with the large amount of people in NE Ohio and robust domestic feed despite no hub or focus city, it's hard to keep CLE off the list of deserved markets. Maybe the airport facility doesn't deserve it but the market is underserved by TATL for sure. It would defy logic to say otherwise.
 
WWads
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:37 pm

flyguy89 wrote:
WWads wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
The parts being shipped to France for CFM/Safran are manufactured in Evendale, OH, to which CVG is obviously closer. As to the flight's performance? The fact that DL has been running it more or less unchanged as a daily widebody the past few years, surviving the hub cuts, 2008 financial crisis, and Paris terror attacks strongly indicates that the flight is very likely a solid performer.


Ding ding ding. Cincy kick Indy's butt when it comes to air service demand. Period. We have a hub/focus city because the companies here are willing to pay for one. Indy doesn't because the companies there aren't willing to pay/aren't significant enough to justify one.

Of course I don't have access to the actual numbers, but logic dictates that DL's current CVG operation is doing quite well. There hasn't been any cuts since 2015, and DL has actually upgauged on many routes, with rumors that a few previously cut routes might be coming back. DL is willing to operate focus cities where it makes sense (see BOS and RDU). CVG makes sense, IND does not. Period. End it there.

Easy there, killer. I'm a confessed CVG fan and think the airport has a very bright future, but IND last year was nearly 2 million pax ahead of CVG, so I'm not sure "kicking Indy's butt when it comes to air service demand" is the right phrase.


Maybe not that exact wording, but I don't look at passengers numbers first when looking at demand. I look at the companies in the area, and the contracts they have with the airlines.
 
cledaybuck
Posts: 1538
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:29 pm

WWads wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
WWads wrote:

Ding ding ding. Cincy kick Indy's butt when it comes to air service demand. Period. We have a hub/focus city because the companies here are willing to pay for one. Indy doesn't because the companies there aren't willing to pay/aren't significant enough to justify one.

Of course I don't have access to the actual numbers, but logic dictates that DL's current CVG operation is doing quite well. There hasn't been any cuts since 2015, and DL has actually upgauged on many routes, with rumors that a few previously cut routes might be coming back. DL is willing to operate focus cities where it makes sense (see BOS and RDU). CVG makes sense, IND does not. Period. End it there.

Easy there, killer. I'm a confessed CVG fan and think the airport has a very bright future, but IND last year was nearly 2 million pax ahead of CVG, so I'm not sure "kicking Indy's butt when it comes to air service demand" is the right phrase.


Maybe not that exact wording, but I don't look at passengers numbers first when looking at demand. I look at the companies in the area, and the contracts they have with the airlines.
Who cares about the companies, if they don't supply the passengers?
As we celebrate mediocrity, all the boys upstairs want to see, how much you'll pay for what you used to get for free.
 
Roots1
Posts: 47
Joined: Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:38 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:29 pm

This thread is incredible. I've never seen such personal feelings about the economics of an air service route. Words like "deserves"... holy cow.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 875
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:39 pm

Roots1 wrote:
This thread is incredible. I've never seen such personal feelings about the economics of an air service route. Words like "deserves"... holy cow.


I was thrown off by that as well. I shouldn't have replied but who decides who "deserves" a route? Probably what I should have posted in the first place!
 
WWads
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:42 pm

cledaybuck wrote:
WWads wrote:
flyguy89 wrote:
Easy there, killer. I'm a confessed CVG fan and think the airport has a very bright future, but IND last year was nearly 2 million pax ahead of CVG, so I'm not sure "kicking Indy's butt when it comes to air service demand" is the right phrase.


Maybe not that exact wording, but I don't look at passengers numbers first when looking at demand. I look at the companies in the area, and the contracts they have with the airlines.
Who cares about the companies, if they don't supply the passengers?


A lot of corporate air service contracts are structured to provide guaranteed revenue even if employees aren't actively flying on every single flight. It's what keeps business-heavy routes at CVG and RDU flying every day, rather than on just key business travel days. Same for any odd point to point route really.
 
Max752
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:56 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:54 pm

LambertMan wrote:
Some of the rationale used throughout this thread is both comical and bizarre from STL and IND supporters.

STL is clearly a larger market - statistics show it. Who gets the next flight is dependent on how sweet the pot gets. Indianapolis, Columbus, St. Louis, etc. are all fringe markets that need support. Nashville and New Orleans included.


Um, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but STL isn't going to get TATL service anytime soon. If STL was going to get TATL service, they would have already gotten it. The problem with STL is an ultra-conservative state government that would never offer any company assistance (be it marketing or alleviating fees) combined with an absolute sh*tshow on the local level. STL isn't worthy of TATL service not because they don't have the demand or business scene but because state and local leaders don't seem to care.

Don't get me wrong, St. Louis is doing better but the city and the region will never be anything more than a second-class city with slow economic growth. The airport council and local leaders have failed the St. Louis region. While Nashville, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, and Austin celebrate TATL flights, the mayor just had a party for daily nonstops to Cancun starting this spring.

STL won't have TATL service until the next decade.

-Max752
Super 80, pff, more like Stupid 80 | TravelUpdate.com |
 
User avatar
stl07
Posts: 1612
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 8:57 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 7:46 pm

Max752 wrote:
LambertMan wrote:
Some of the rationale used throughout this thread is both comical and bizarre from STL and IND supporters.

STL is clearly a larger market - statistics show it. Who gets the next flight is dependent on how sweet the pot gets. Indianapolis, Columbus, St. Louis, etc. are all fringe markets that need support. Nashville and New Orleans included.


Um, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but STL isn't going to get TATL service anytime soon. If STL was going to get TATL service, they would have already gotten it. The problem with STL is an ultra-conservative state government that would never offer any company assistance (be it marketing or alleviating fees) combined with an absolute sh*tshow on the local level. STL isn't worthy of TATL service not because they don't have the demand or business scene but because state and local leaders don't seem to care.

Don't get me wrong, St. Louis is doing better but the city and the region will never be anything more than a second-class city with slow economic growth. The airport council and local leaders have failed the St. Louis region. While Nashville, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, and Austin celebrate TATL flights, the mayor just had a party for daily nonstops to Cancun starting this spring.

STL won't have TATL service until the next decade.

-Max752

What's funny is that we have had daily CUN flights for years
Interesting how every thread is spammed with "bring back paid membership, there are too many spammers"
 
Max752
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:56 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:25 pm

stl07 wrote:
Max752 wrote:
LambertMan wrote:
Some of the rationale used throughout this thread is both comical and bizarre from STL and IND supporters.

STL is clearly a larger market - statistics show it. Who gets the next flight is dependent on how sweet the pot gets. Indianapolis, Columbus, St. Louis, etc. are all fringe markets that need support. Nashville and New Orleans included.


Um, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but STL isn't going to get TATL service anytime soon. If STL was going to get TATL service, they would have already gotten it. The problem with STL is an ultra-conservative state government that would never offer any company assistance (be it marketing or alleviating fees) combined with an absolute sh*tshow on the local level. STL isn't worthy of TATL service not because they don't have the demand or business scene but because state and local leaders don't seem to care.

Don't get me wrong, St. Louis is doing better but the city and the region will never be anything more than a second-class city with slow economic growth. The airport council and local leaders have failed the St. Louis region. While Nashville, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, and Austin celebrate TATL flights, the mayor just had a party for daily nonstops to Cancun starting this spring.

STL won't have TATL service until the next decade.

-Max752

What's funny is that we have had daily CUN flights for years


From what I can tell, it hasn't been daily but nonetheless, the link between STL and CUN has been there for years. STL is not on the cutting edge for WN international service either. Dozens of WN markets have service to CUN now. STL is a disaster....
Super 80, pff, more like Stupid 80 | TravelUpdate.com |
 
chalupas54
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:29 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:31 pm

Max752 wrote:
LambertMan wrote:
Some of the rationale used throughout this thread is both comical and bizarre from STL and IND supporters.

STL is clearly a larger market - statistics show it. Who gets the next flight is dependent on how sweet the pot gets. Indianapolis, Columbus, St. Louis, etc. are all fringe markets that need support. Nashville and New Orleans included.


Um, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but STL isn't going to get TATL service anytime soon. If STL was going to get TATL service, they would have already gotten it. The problem with STL is an ultra-conservative state government that would never offer any company assistance (be it marketing or alleviating fees) combined with an absolute sh*tshow on the local level. STL isn't worthy of TATL service not because they don't have the demand or business scene but because state and local leaders don't seem to care.

Don't get me wrong, St. Louis is doing better but the city and the region will never be anything more than a second-class city with slow economic growth. The airport council and local leaders have failed the St. Louis region. While Nashville, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, and Austin celebrate TATL flights, the mayor just had a party for daily nonstops to Cancun starting this spring.

STL won't have TATL service until the next decade.

-Max752


Actually, this is not true at all. The Missouri Chamber went with the STL delegation to London last year. Jay Nixon was campaigning for Chris Koster and could not attend. Current MO Gov, Eric Greitens, is supportive of TATL to STL. And no, the mayor did not just have a party for CUN non-stops. Why is everyone saying she did? She can't say she's happy that WN is expanding again in STL? A 'second-class city' can't be happy for it's 'little' victories? Lmao. Good grief.
 
chalupas54
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:29 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:33 pm

Max752 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
Max752 wrote:

Um, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but STL isn't going to get TATL service anytime soon. If STL was going to get TATL service, they would have already gotten it. The problem with STL is an ultra-conservative state government that would never offer any company assistance (be it marketing or alleviating fees) combined with an absolute sh*tshow on the local level. STL isn't worthy of TATL service not because they don't have the demand or business scene but because state and local leaders don't seem to care.

Don't get me wrong, St. Louis is doing better but the city and the region will never be anything more than a second-class city with slow economic growth. The airport council and local leaders have failed the St. Louis region. While Nashville, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, and Austin celebrate TATL flights, the mayor just had a party for daily nonstops to Cancun starting this spring.

STL won't have TATL service until the next decade.

-Max752

What's funny is that we have had daily CUN flights for years


From what I can tell, it hasn't been daily but nonetheless, the link between STL and CUN has been there for years. STL is not on the cutting edge for WN international service either. Dozens of WN markets have service to CUN now. STL is a disaster....


"Of course, being a native St. Louisian, I'm hoping for LON-STL. Even without being from St. Louis I would still bet on STL. There's an indication that the Lambert-St. Louis International Airport board has stepped up their game to attract flights to Europe. Most recently, someone from the board (possible the airport director herself), was interviewed by KMOV-CBS4 and was quoted as saying that the airport is nearing agreements with British Airways or Lufthansa. Additionally, STL has worked on improving their customs facility at Terminal 2. Terminal 1 also has the infrastructure to fairly easily implement a customs facility." - you, Max752, last year.

What changed?

It's interesting though. People from STL really shoot themselves in the face, not the foot.
 
Max752
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:56 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:51 pm

chalupas54 wrote:
Max752 wrote:
stl07 wrote:
What's funny is that we have had daily CUN flights for years


From what I can tell, it hasn't been daily but nonetheless, the link between STL and CUN has been there for years. STL is not on the cutting edge for WN international service either. Dozens of WN markets have service to CUN now. STL is a disaster....


"Of course, being a native St. Louisian, I'm hoping for LON-STL. Even without being from St. Louis I would still bet on STL. There's an indication that the Lambert-St. Louis International Airport board has stepped up their game to attract flights to Europe. Most recently, someone from the board (possible the airport director herself), was interviewed by KMOV-CBS4 and was quoted as saying that the airport is nearing agreements with British Airways or Lufthansa. Additionally, STL has worked on improving their customs facility at Terminal 2. Terminal 1 also has the infrastructure to fairly easily implement a customs facility." - you, Max752, last year.

What changed?

It's interesting though. People from STL really shoot themselves in the face, not the foot.


Another year of nothing. I could try to stay positive and watch as the next batch of politicians talk with British Airways or I could face reality. STL is a second-class citizen with second-class leaders. Do you know how many times CBS, Fox 2, and the Post Dispatch have reported on politicians talking with BA about non-stop service? If it were going to happen it would have. It's not going to.

The piss-poor leadership and little growth in St. Louis is one region I worked so hard in high school so I could get into a school away from home. Off to better places!
Super 80, pff, more like Stupid 80 | TravelUpdate.com |
 
chalupas54
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:29 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:13 pm

Max752 wrote:
chalupas54 wrote:
Max752 wrote:

From what I can tell, it hasn't been daily but nonetheless, the link between STL and CUN has been there for years. STL is not on the cutting edge for WN international service either. Dozens of WN markets have service to CUN now. STL is a disaster....


"Of course, being a native St. Louisian, I'm hoping for LON-STL. Even without being from St. Louis I would still bet on STL. There's an indication that the Lambert-St. Louis International Airport board has stepped up their game to attract flights to Europe. Most recently, someone from the board (possible the airport director herself), was interviewed by KMOV-CBS4 and was quoted as saying that the airport is nearing agreements with British Airways or Lufthansa. Additionally, STL has worked on improving their customs facility at Terminal 2. Terminal 1 also has the infrastructure to fairly easily implement a customs facility." - you, Max752, last year.

What changed?

It's interesting though. People from STL really shoot themselves in the face, not the foot.


Another year of nothing. I could try to stay positive and watch as the next batch of politicians talk with British Airways or I could face reality. STL is a second-class citizen with second-class leaders. Do you know how many times CBS, Fox 2, and the Post Dispatch have reported on politicians talking with BA about non-stop service? If it were going to happen it would have. It's not going to.

The piss-poor leadership and little growth in St. Louis is one region I worked so hard in high school so I could get into a school away from home. Off to better places!


Well, that's unfortunate that you're leaving St. Louis simply because the city has not finalized a deal for a TATL. That seems like a very brash decision to uproot your life and move because of that. I understand you're irrational, but the "if it were going to happen it would have" argument is dumb. Seriously. Where is the logic behind that? Technically it already has happened. STL had numerous TATLs in the 90s and early 2000s. They went away because of dehubbing. According to stats I've looked at, and also from the airport in my numerous research info requests from them, localdemand for TATLs was lower in the 90s and early 2000s than it is now. Do you honestly think that all the airport does is go in, sit down with BA, walk out and have service? These deals can take years to perfect. NOLA apparently took 10 years. STL has been courting TATL return since 2012.

Also, second class leaders? What defines a second class leader? Someone who doesn't prioritize landing a TATL over tackling a city's very real problems? Get a grip. Landing TATL service for STL is in the hands of truly remarkable people. I encourage you to visit the World Trade Center St Louis, STLPartnership, and the Regional Chamber's website for more information on what they are doing to help grow the region. Lyda Krewson and Steve Stenger are committed to landing TATL service, but has it ever crossed your mind that maybe...just maybe..being a mayor of a major city and the executive of a county comes with other responsibilities? WOW!


Max, you're making a total fool of yourself. When you go drink your warm milk and calm down, I encourage you to either go on /r/StLouis or urbanstl.com to vent your clearly bent up frustration with the city. airliners.net is not the place.
 
Max752
Posts: 371
Joined: Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:56 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:19 pm

chalupas54 wrote:
Max752 wrote:
chalupas54 wrote:

"Of course, being a native St. Louisian, I'm hoping for LON-STL. Even without being from St. Louis I would still bet on STL. There's an indication that the Lambert-St. Louis International Airport board has stepped up their game to attract flights to Europe. Most recently, someone from the board (possible the airport director herself), was interviewed by KMOV-CBS4 and was quoted as saying that the airport is nearing agreements with British Airways or Lufthansa. Additionally, STL has worked on improving their customs facility at Terminal 2. Terminal 1 also has the infrastructure to fairly easily implement a customs facility." - you, Max752, last year.

What changed?

It's interesting though. People from STL really shoot themselves in the face, not the foot.


Another year of nothing. I could try to stay positive and watch as the next batch of politicians talk with British Airways or I could face reality. STL is a second-class citizen with second-class leaders. Do you know how many times CBS, Fox 2, and the Post Dispatch have reported on politicians talking with BA about non-stop service? If it were going to happen it would have. It's not going to.

The piss-poor leadership and little growth in St. Louis is one region I worked so hard in high school so I could get into a school away from home. Off to better places!


Well, that's unfortunate that you're leaving St. Louis simply because the city has not finalized a deal for a TATL. That seems like a very brash decision to uproot your life and move because of that. I understand you're irrational, but the "if it were going to happen it would have" argument is dumb. Seriously. Where is the logic behind that? Technically it already has happened. STL had numerous TATLs in the 90s and early 2000s. They went away because of dehubbing. According to stats I've looked at, and also from the airport in my numerous research info requests from them, localdemand for TATLs was lower in the 90s and early 2000s than it is now. Do you honestly think that all the airport does is go in, sit down with BA, walk out and have service? These deals can take years to perfect. NOLA apparently took 10 years. STL has been courting TATL return since 2012.

Also, second class leaders? What defines a second class leader? Someone who doesn't prioritize landing a TATL over tackling a city's very real problems? Get a grip. Landing TATL service for STL is in the hands of truly remarkable people. I encourage you to visit the World Trade Center St Louis, STLPartnership, and the Regional Chamber's website for more information on what they are doing to help grow the region. Lyda Krewson and Steve Stenger are committed to landing TATL service, but has it ever crossed your mind that maybe...just maybe..being a mayor of a major city and the executive of a county comes with other responsibilities? WOW!


Max, you're making a total fool of yourself. When you go drink your warm milk and calm down, I encourage you to either go on /r/StLouis or urbanstl.com to vent your clearly bent up frustration with the city. airliners.net is not the place.


Wait, so you think I made the decision to study elsewhere based on a TATL decision? Wow, no. That's not true. I've lived here for 18 years and all I've seen is Fortune 500 companies leave and the city continue to deteriorate. I know there are some great things happening around St. Louis but just look at the overall economic growth. Don't call me foolish for pointing out the combination of slow business growth and poor leadership translates to St. Louis remaining second-class.
Super 80, pff, more like Stupid 80 | TravelUpdate.com |
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12508
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:25 pm

Roots1 wrote:
This thread is incredible. I've never seen such personal feelings about the economics of an air service route. Words like "deserves"... holy cow.

THANK YOU!!!


Delta332 wrote:
CLT - makes the most sense.

Based on what? There's already a JV partner there, who could easily raise capacity without wasting another slot.

What "makes the most sense" about duplicating that, when they can use that slot to garner revenue premiums from elsewhere?


Delta332 wrote:
HOWEVER, BA has saturated the US market.

Again, based on what?


Delta332 wrote:
They are almost everywhere....

Pretty sure STL, IND, CLE, CMH, BDL, etc would all disagree.


Delta332 wrote:
with feed from AA, why would they want to make another investment in the US. [/quote"]
Because cities are throwing big money at them to do so.


Delta332 wrote:
I think BA should focus on South America

Not only has BA opened new service there over the last year, and expanded existing service; but they also have IB who unquestionably dominates the LatAm-Europe traffic. What more do you want?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
chalupas54
Posts: 74
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:29 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:46 pm

Max752 wrote:
chalupas54 wrote:
Max752 wrote:

Another year of nothing. I could try to stay positive and watch as the next batch of politicians talk with British Airways or I could face reality. STL is a second-class citizen with second-class leaders. Do you know how many times CBS, Fox 2, and the Post Dispatch have reported on politicians talking with BA about non-stop service? If it were going to happen it would have. It's not going to.

The piss-poor leadership and little growth in St. Louis is one region I worked so hard in high school so I could get into a school away from home. Off to better places!


Well, that's unfortunate that you're leaving St. Louis simply because the city has not finalized a deal for a TATL. That seems like a very brash decision to uproot your life and move because of that. I understand you're irrational, but the "if it were going to happen it would have" argument is dumb. Seriously. Where is the logic behind that? Technically it already has happened. STL had numerous TATLs in the 90s and early 2000s. They went away because of dehubbing. According to stats I've looked at, and also from the airport in my numerous research info requests from them, localdemand for TATLs was lower in the 90s and early 2000s than it is now. Do you honestly think that all the airport does is go in, sit down with BA, walk out and have service? These deals can take years to perfect. NOLA apparently took 10 years. STL has been courting TATL return since 2012.

Also, second class leaders? What defines a second class leader? Someone who doesn't prioritize landing a TATL over tackling a city's very real problems? Get a grip. Landing TATL service for STL is in the hands of truly remarkable people. I encourage you to visit the World Trade Center St Louis, STLPartnership, and the Regional Chamber's website for more information on what they are doing to help grow the region. Lyda Krewson and Steve Stenger are committed to landing TATL service, but has it ever crossed your mind that maybe...just maybe..being a mayor of a major city and the executive of a county comes with other responsibilities? WOW!


Max, you're making a total fool of yourself. When you go drink your warm milk and calm down, I encourage you to either go on /r/StLouis or urbanstl.com to vent your clearly bent up frustration with the city. airliners.net is not the place.


Wait, so you think I made the decision to study elsewhere based on a TATL decision? Wow, no. That's not true. I've lived here for 18 years and all I've seen is Fortune 500 companies leave and the city continue to deteriorate. I know there are some great things happening around St. Louis but just look at the overall economic growth. Don't call me foolish for pointing out the combination of slow business growth and poor leadership translates to St. Louis remaining second-class.


Really, all you've seen in the last 18 years is decline? Again, that's not what you said last year. :roll:

Look, I don't know if some girl broke your heart, but your hatred for the St. Louis area is not only comical but an indictment of your foolishness.

I hope you enjoy your studies however.
 
joeman
Posts: 833
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 11:55 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:40 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Roots1 wrote:
This thread is incredible. I've never seen such personal feelings about the economics of an air service route. Words like "deserves"... holy cow.


I was thrown off by that as well. I shouldn't have replied but who decides who "deserves" a route? Probably what I should have posted in the first place!

No need to retreat to a bunch of people trying to make everything THEY write and think to be deemed as holy scripture.
 
Indy
Posts: 4843
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:24 am

Maybe it has been mentioned in the previous 5 pages of posts, but does BA have any equipment available for any new routes next year? After the BNA route of course. It may all be a moot point. If they do have equipment then what is available?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:30 am

Indy wrote:
Maybe it has been mentioned in the previous 5 pages of posts, but does BA have any equipment available for any new routes next year? After the BNA route of course. It may all be a moot point. If they do have equipment then what is available?


They seem to add 1-2 destinations a year, so I don't think equipment is an issue. They added both MSY-LHR and FLL-LGW this year (announced last year) and seemed to function just fine.

As I said before, I still think there is a small possibility IND could get announced as well this fall. If not, then IND will likely be next year if BA decides to further expand.
 
Ph1l1p
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:20 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:34 am

Anna Aero had an article a few years ago which listed potential cities which could be the next British Airways Destination.

So far all those cities mentioned are now routes

Austin, San Jose, New Orleans, Fort Lauderdale, Oakland and now Nashville.

http://www.anna.aero/2014/06/25/new-orl ... ys-us-list

Of the list only St Louis, Kansas City, Columbus and Honolulu are not being served, though the article does discount HNL due to the lower leisure yeilds from the route.

Going on that article, I think the next route will be STL.
 
Indy
Posts: 4843
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:36 am

ADrum23 wrote:
They seem to add 1-2 destinations a year, so I don't think equipment is an issue. They added both MSY-LHR and FLL-LGW this year (announced last year) and seemed to function just fine.

As I said before, I still think there is a small possibility IND could get announced as well this fall. If not, then IND will likely be next year if BA decides to further expand.


I don't think IND-LHR is going to happen. I know IND wants it but I will believe it when I see it. I'd guess that DL to AMS is most likely. I may have already said that in this thread. I don't remember.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:37 am

Indy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
They seem to add 1-2 destinations a year, so I don't think equipment is an issue. They added both MSY-LHR and FLL-LGW this year (announced last year) and seemed to function just fine.

As I said before, I still think there is a small possibility IND could get announced as well this fall. If not, then IND will likely be next year if BA decides to further expand.


I don't think IND-LHR is going to happen. I know IND wants it but I will believe it when I see it. I'd guess that DL to AMS is most likely. I may have already said that in this thread. I don't remember.


Well, MidwestIndy insisted that he heard some sort of announcement would happen this fall, and the state of Indiana budgeted some incentives for a TATL flight from IND. Idk.

I think DL to AMS is more likely for St. Louis.
 
Indy
Posts: 4843
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:42 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Well, MidwestIndy insisted that he heard some sort of announcement would happen this fall, and the state of Indiana budgeted some incentives for a TATL flight from IND. Idk.

I think DL to AMS is more likely for St. Louis.


What MidwestIndy is talking about came from an official source. I don't remember if it was the airport authority or the economic development corporation. From day one IND wanted LHR and/or FRA. FRA was a joke in my opinion. Who was going to fly that route? LH? No chance. Just in recent weeks though the official word was LHR and AMS. So they've changed their focus a bit. Clearly something has come up to make them now say AMS.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:48 am

Indy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Well, MidwestIndy insisted that he heard some sort of announcement would happen this fall, and the state of Indiana budgeted some incentives for a TATL flight from IND. Idk.

I think DL to AMS is more likely for St. Louis.


What MidwestIndy is talking about came from an official source. I don't remember if it was the airport authority or the economic development corporation. From day one IND wanted LHR and/or FRA. FRA was a joke in my opinion. Who was going to fly that route? LH? No chance. Just in recent weeks though the official word was LHR and AMS. So they've changed their focus a bit. Clearly something has come up to make them now say AMS.


Well, hopefully he will come on and explain again exactly what he heard. The way he was talking made it sound like IND-LHR was going to be announced on BA, but I guess yesterday's announcement of BNA-LHR has diminished the chances of that happening this fall. Maybe some other carrier will announce TATL.
 
User avatar
flyPIT
Posts: 1653
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:21 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:06 am

Ph1l1p wrote:
http://www.anna.aero/2014/06/25/new-orl ... ys-us-list

Of the list only St Louis, Kansas City, Columbus and Honolulu are not being served, though the article does discount HNL due to the lower leisure yeilds from the route.

Going on that article, I think the next route will be STL.


That article is pretty bad for these topics because it omitted CLE and IND which have no service to Europe but are contenders. It also made the false assumption BA was only looking at US cities without any European service. Since then they added OAK and FLL. With that in mind we also can add PDX, PIT, DTW, and MSP back in to the mix of potential BA markets. Even the headline was wrong, as SJC turned out to be at the "Top of British Airway's US To-Do List" at the time.
Last edited by flyPIT on Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
FLYi
 
klm617
Posts: 4476
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:15 am

Delta332 wrote:
CLT - makes the most sense. HOWEVER, BA has saturated the US market. They are almost everywhere....with feed from AA, why would they want to make another investment in the US. I think BA should focus on South America and Africa.



They are not in Detroit yet.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
Cunard
Posts: 2486
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:26 am

And British Airways won't be in Detroit either, it will never be reinstated as Delta have that completely sown up!
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 4158
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:00 am

ADrum23 wrote:
Indy wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Well, MidwestIndy insisted that he heard some sort of announcement would happen this fall, and the state of Indiana budgeted some incentives for a TATL flight from IND. Idk.

I think DL to AMS is more likely for St. Louis.


What MidwestIndy is talking about came from an official source. I don't remember if it was the airport authority or the economic development corporation. From day one IND wanted LHR and/or FRA. FRA was a joke in my opinion. Who was going to fly that route? LH? No chance. Just in recent weeks though the official word was LHR and AMS. So they've changed their focus a bit. Clearly something has come up to make them now say AMS.


Well, hopefully he will come on and explain again exactly what he heard. The way he was talking made it sound like IND-LHR was going to be announced on BA, but I guess yesterday's announcement of BNA-LHR has diminished the chances of that happening this fall. Maybe some other carrier will announce TATL.


Everything I have heard coming from both the state/economic dev. corp./airport unofficial/official has claimed that the service is expected by the end of the year (make of that what you will, I am just regurgitating information provided to me). IND met with DL about AMS-IND 1-2 weeks ago, so we will see what happens. I think LH was a pipe dream, if any service to Germany was going to happen it would be DE, and DE isn't happening in the near future, so DL and BA seem the best candidates.

IND doesn't seem like they want to wait until Fall of 2018 for new service TATL service, so unless BA adds in this fall, IND isn't going to wait around until next year for BA to make a decision.

With regards to MSP, PDX, and DTW, IMO BA adding LHR/LGW to any of those cities would be less likely, BA isn't as inclined to compete h2h with DL for many obvious reasons.

I also think we are winding down on possible new cities for BA in the US, maybe 1-2 more than that is it for a while, by the time any more get announced Norwegian would have launched the A321LR into the next most viable cities. Again, IMO IND, STL, CMH, CLE, and likely a few others will have TATL flights 2019-2020, whether on BA, DL, DY, WW, e.t.c
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
tilerchin
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 3:32 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:15 am

This might be a stretch but what about a seasonal ANC service.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 4158
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:25 am

tilerchin wrote:
This might be a stretch but what about a seasonal ANC service.


Less of a stretch than you might think, considering DE and FI run seasonally to FRA/KEF. But considering there is already the service in place, and the fact that other markets seem more viable, I think it would be put in the unlikely category.
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
DaufuskieGuy
Posts: 411
Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:35 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:34 am

chalupas54 wrote:
Now that BNA is official, I think we can narrow any discussion to STL and IND. CMH and CLE are not happening anytime soon, I'm sorry.


ua has a big base of ff, you'd think the city could convince them to move one of their 6 ewr/lhr slots to cle with a 757. plus some star connectivity at lhr.
 
Andy33
Posts: 2474
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 4:58 am

Indy wrote:
Maybe it has been mentioned in the previous 5 pages of posts, but does BA have any equipment available for any new routes next year? After the BNA route of course. It may all be a moot point. If they do have equipment then what is available?
ADrum23 wrote:
They seem to add 1-2 destinations a year, so I don't think equipment is an issue. They added both MSY-LHR and FLL-LGW this year (announced last year) and seemed to function just fine.

As I said before, I still think there is a small possibility IND could get announced as well this fall. If not, then IND will likely be next year if BA decides to further expand.


Yes, it has been mentioned several times in the previous five pages of posts. BA's long haul fleet is increasing sloooowly. This year for example they are taking delivery of exactly one plane (a 788) and no planes are leaving the fleet (well actually one of the two A318s used to JFK already has). Next year they expect 3 more 788s and two 789s, but there's no confirmed date for the third 788. However they also have to provide cover for planes out of service while a large batch of 772ERs go through a cabin refit in 2018. They plan to convert one of the five remaining "mid-haul" A321ceos (lie flat seats in business, full IFE etc) which are used on some rotations on routes like AMM, BEY, CAI, DME and TLV, back to shorthaul standard and the long haul fleet's work will be rearranged to provide a replacement.
At the end of next year the A350-1000 order will start arriving, and an equivalent number of very elderly 744s will start leaving. Extending the life of these will mean expensive heavy checks so is unlikely to happen, especially as the order for 787-10s begins to arrive in 2019 anyway.
Finally some people have mentioned A321neos. There are ten on order for BA, deliveries start next year, but these are high-density shorthaul planes, not LRs. BA has no neoLRs on order at all. Sister airline Aer Lingus is expecting some, and if they are successful on TATL routes out of DUB and SNN, maybe some will come to BA in the future.
 
Gkentuk
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:48 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:45 pm

Has BA already dropped LGW-JFK? Seems it hasn't run for 10 days
 
XRadar98
Posts: 56
Joined: Sun May 01, 2016 4:23 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:34 pm

Everyone can take SAT off of any list for overseas. The runway at 8500' probably is not very desirable. Then there is the terminal(s), that cannot take anything larger than a 757.
 
klm617
Posts: 4476
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:24 pm

Cunard wrote:
And British Airways won't be in Detroit either, it will never be reinstated as Delta have that completely sown up!


For many years BA coexisted in the Detroit market with Pan Am and competed very well why do you think it can't coexist with Delta they provide a much better on board product than Delta .I think at the time BA exited Detroit it really didn't matter to the airport and they didn't fight it to much as NWA was very committed to this market but I wonder in hindsight if they knew Delta was going to take over Northwest and shrink the Detroit London market if they should have lobbied harder to keep BA here. Remember too that at the time BA was in the McNamara terminal and NWA wanted all the competition out of their new crown jewel.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
as739x
Posts: 5164
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:23 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:30 pm

ADrum23 wrote:
Only other city that deserves BA service to LHR after BNA is IND.



CMH is smack in the middle between CLE and CVG and really is not much of a draw.


All in all, the two most likely destinations for BA expansion are BNA and IND, and both will get it either this year or next.


Not that I am saying CMH is next, but CMH is the financial hub of Ohio and much more stable then Cleveland or Cincy. In addition, you'd be able to move more cargo as Columbus has a large cargo presence at LCK. So really location is not a very valid argument. But again, Im not saying CMH is likely.
"Some pilots avoid storm cells and some play connect the dots!"
 
Indy
Posts: 4843
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:45 pm

as739x wrote:
Not that I am saying CMH is next, but CMH is the financial hub of Ohio and much more stable then Cleveland or Cincy. In addition, you'd be able to move more cargo as Columbus has a large cargo presence at LCK. So really location is not a very valid argument. But again, Im not saying CMH is likely.


On the subject of CMH... what is the status of the terminal project? I remember that coming up a couple years ago or so. Is that going anywhere?
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
atypical
Posts: 797
Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2014 12:28 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:04 pm

Malayil wrote:
Is CSA the best metric for airport market size, or is MSA better?


CSA is a much better reflection of an airport's (or multiple airports) catchment however it is not perfect. AUS and SAT are excellent example of MSAs only that are not apart of a CSA and they certainly share a significant part of their catchments with each other. For trans-oceanic I think you would see one or the other land a route but not both. That doesn't mean 20 years from now that might not change since both are rapidly growing.

At least as important as catchment is the business ties between the markets. For example Eli Lilly has a significant operation in London and Rolls Royce has their second largest factory in Indy. Both of those companies would generate significant passenger volume paying premium prices. Both would also probably generate significant cargo volume for the flight too. A London flight is probably twice as valuable than any other destination Europe destination from Indianapolis based just upon corporate traffic.

The third factor is tourism however that is only applicable if an area is highly dependent on tourism (US side). MSY and TPA can punch above their weight because they are established tourist destinations both domestically and internationally.
 
User avatar
Midwestindy
Posts: 4158
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:56 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:17 pm

as739x wrote:
ADrum23 wrote:
Only other city that deserves BA service to LHR after BNA is IND.



CMH is smack in the middle between CLE and CVG and really is not much of a draw.


All in all, the two most likely destinations for BA expansion are BNA and IND, and both will get it either this year or next.


Not that I am saying CMH is next, but CMH is the financial hub of Ohio and much more stable then Cleveland or Cincy. In addition, you'd be able to move more cargo as Columbus has a large cargo presence at LCK. So really location is not a very valid argument. But again, Im not saying CMH is likely.


I never thought "financial hub of Ohio" would be used as a reason for TATL service....
Status for 2019/2020: AAdvantage Platinum, Delta Gold, Southwest A-List
 
sw733
Posts: 5859
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:27 pm

chalupas54 wrote:
Max752 wrote:
LambertMan wrote:
Some of the rationale used throughout this thread is both comical and bizarre from STL and IND supporters.

STL is clearly a larger market - statistics show it. Who gets the next flight is dependent on how sweet the pot gets. Indianapolis, Columbus, St. Louis, etc. are all fringe markets that need support. Nashville and New Orleans included.


Um, sorry to be the bearer of bad news but STL isn't going to get TATL service anytime soon. If STL was going to get TATL service, they would have already gotten it. The problem with STL is an ultra-conservative state government that would never offer any company assistance (be it marketing or alleviating fees) combined with an absolute sh*tshow on the local level. STL isn't worthy of TATL service not because they don't have the demand or business scene but because state and local leaders don't seem to care.

Don't get me wrong, St. Louis is doing better but the city and the region will never be anything more than a second-class city with slow economic growth. The airport council and local leaders have failed the St. Louis region. While Nashville, Pittsburgh, New Orleans, and Austin celebrate TATL flights, the mayor just had a party for daily nonstops to Cancun starting this spring.

STL won't have TATL service until the next decade.

-Max752


Actually, this is not true at all. The Missouri Chamber went with the STL delegation to London last year. Jay Nixon was campaigning for Chris Koster and could not attend. Current MO Gov, Eric Greitens, is supportive of TATL to STL. And no, the mayor did not just have a party for CUN non-stops. Why is everyone saying she did? She can't say she's happy that WN is expanding again in STL? A 'second-class city' can't be happy for it's 'little' victories? Lmao. Good grief.


To be fair, Greitens is pretty much supportive of anything pro-St. Louis, even to the detriment of the rest of Missouri (not saying STL-LHR would hurt the rest of Missouri by any means, but Greitens seems to support anything even remotely pro-St. Louis)
 
Legend757
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 6:59 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:45 pm

XRadar98 wrote:
Everyone can take SAT off of any list for overseas. The runway at 8500' probably is not very desirable. Then there is the terminal(s), that cannot take anything larger than a 757.


Actually, the terminal can handle widebody aircraft. Gate B7 can accommodate a 764 and the international gates can as well, albeit at the expense of other gates. I believe that Air Transat did a charter flight not too long ago with an A330 at Terminal A.

True, the runway length is limiting, but still possible.
 
Cunard
Posts: 2486
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:45 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:59 pm

klm617 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
And British Airways won't be in Detroit either, it will never be reinstated as Delta have that completely sown up!


For many years BA coexisted in the Detroit market with Pan Am and competed very well why do you think it can't coexist with Delta they provide a much better on board product than Delta .I think at the time BA exited Detroit it really didn't matter to the airport and they didn't fight it to much as NWA was very committed to this market but I wonder in hindsight if they knew Delta was going to take over Northwest and shrink the Detroit London market if they should have lobbied harder to keep BA here. Remember too that at the time BA was in the McNamara terminal and NWA wanted all the competition out of their new crown jewel.


I am aware of British Airways and Pan Am coexisting on LHR to Detroit for many years plus competition with Northwest operating LGW to Detroit.

Detroit has shrunk since then with Delta having a monopoly on the route plus a huge customer base that British Airways will find hard to up against so I personally don't see British Airways returning to Detroit anytime soon as the airline is obviously in the position of looking at new markets as seen with their latest USA destinations.
94 Countries, 327 Destinations Worldwide, 32 Airlines, 29 Aircraft Types, 182 Airports, 335 Flights.
 
Trololzilla
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:53 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:22 pm

sw733 wrote:
To be fair, Greitens is pretty much supportive of anything pro-St. Louis, even to the detriment of the rest of Missouri (not saying STL-LHR would hurt the rest of Missouri by any means, but Greitens seems to support anything even remotely pro-St. Louis)

To me it's seemed like the exact opposite is true so far: Greitens is pandering to the rural residents of Missouri that elected him while almost completely ignoring the needs and desires of the larger cities (without which, I suspect, Missouri would not even be able to function successfully). One such example is striking down the minimum wage hike in St. Louis. Another, less overt example his intent to make Missouri right-to-work (not that it'll survive being forced onto the upcoming ballot, but I digress).

He seemed more that happy enough to flee from St. Louis the second he got the opportunity to do so, so I'm not entirely convinced he really cares all too much about what STL thinks, but rather what Rex Sinquefield tells (and basically pays) him to do.

2020 can't come soon enough.
 
Jshank83
Posts: 2906
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 2:23 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:28 pm

Trololzilla wrote:
sw733 wrote:
To be fair, Greitens is pretty much supportive of anything pro-St. Louis, even to the detriment of the rest of Missouri (not saying STL-LHR would hurt the rest of Missouri by any means, but Greitens seems to support anything even remotely pro-St. Louis)

To me it's seemed like the exact opposite is true so far: Greitens is pandering to the rural residents of Missouri that elected him while almost completely ignoring the needs and desires of the larger cities (without which, I suspect, Missouri would not even be able to function successfully). One such example is striking down the minimum wage hike in St. Louis. Another, less overt example his intent to make Missouri right-to-work (not that it'll survive being forced onto the upcoming ballot, but I digress).

He seemed more that happy enough to flee from St. Louis the second he got the opportunity to do so, so I'm not entirely convinced he really cares all too much about what STL thinks, but rather what Rex Sinquefield tells (and basically pays) him to do.

2020 can't come soon enough.


Plus the first thing he did in office was tell STL he wasn't giving any money to the soccer stadium (right or wrong). So that didn't help him get off to a good start. That said I'll get back to aviation and save the rest for another forum.




So are most under the thought that BNA is going to be the last announcement (not start date) for BA in the USA this year? I know there has been some plane talk and most seems like it is likely too far off to announce more this year at least, right?
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 3273
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:42 pm

Cunard wrote:
klm617 wrote:
Cunard wrote:
And British Airways won't be in Detroit either, it will never be reinstated as Delta have that completely sown up!


For many years BA coexisted in the Detroit market with Pan Am and competed very well why do you think it can't coexist with Delta they provide a much better on board product than Delta .I think at the time BA exited Detroit it really didn't matter to the airport and they didn't fight it to much as NWA was very committed to this market but I wonder in hindsight if they knew Delta was going to take over Northwest and shrink the Detroit London market if they should have lobbied harder to keep BA here. Remember too that at the time BA was in the McNamara terminal and NWA wanted all the competition out of their new crown jewel.


I am aware of British Airways and Pan Am coexisting on LHR to Detroit for many years plus competition with Northwest operating LGW to Detroit.

Detroit has shrunk since then with Delta having a monopoly on the route plus a huge customer base that British Airways will find hard to up against so I personally don't see British Airways returning to Detroit anytime soon as the airline is obviously in the position of looking at new markets as seen with their latest USA destinations.
In all due respect, I disagree with you. Yes, DL has a monopoly, but I don't think you realize how negatively that effected the amount of local travel to London, and I'm stating blatant facts, nor am I being biased. I've taken the time to average fares between DTW-LON and other monopolized markets by prospective airlines, not only did DTW have to pay 6% more than ATL, DTW has to pay over 10% more than its peers. Is BA the ultimate solution? No, but DL's cuts in the market clearly shows that they have DTW-LON by the behind and will continue to trim the market until there's virtually little market left. Would you pay $1800 RT out of your airport where you can travel an additional hour across an international border to catch a one-stop flight for $800 or drive to the next biggest US city that offers RT's for an average of $1K? I don't see why BA can't do it if they secure a decent cargo or premium contract, though I think WW or FI are the better options, I trend an LCC to make a greater effect and stimulate more markets quicker.
...the carriage of liquids, gels, and aerosols are prohibited through the screening checkpoint except for travel size toiletries of 3 ounces or less...
 
ADrum23
Posts: 1789
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Re: BA's Next US Destination

Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:45 pm

Two things.

1. CMH needs to focus on expanding their domestic network right now, as opposed to trying to land TATL service. They lack a fair amount of destinations that other airports that either landed or are trying to land TATL service (such as MSY, BNA, IND) have.

2. Do you think there is some corruption going on within the airport board in St. Louis (whatever it's called) that is hampering their ability to become more attractive? It seems odd that they have not landed any TATL service whatsoever.
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 10

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos