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DTWLAX
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FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:49 pm

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ind ... 939095.cms

FAA denies take-off for AI126 due to worn seatbelt tags. I am not sure what the rules are for seatbelts, so cannot say if the FAA went overboard.
It will be interesting to find out what happened to the flight departing from JFK since that aircraft is now short of seatbelts.
 
SFOtoORD
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:55 pm

And of course AI takes no responsibility and puts it all on the FAA. A lazy maintenance program isn't something to make excuses about.
 
smokeybandit
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:14 pm

Seat belt tags? Can't say I've ever noticed tags on seat belts.
 
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deltadawg
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:22 pm

Sounds like this is a situation where perhaps the FAA has heard enough rumors and decided to pay a visit and they were going to find something no matter the severity in order to make a point. Can't say I ever remember a flight being grounded due to seatbelt tags but then again the FAA will say they are averting a tragedy also. No winners here but it would be nice to see a photo of one of the worn seatbelt tags and the seatbelts themselves for reference.

The important fact in this entire story is that Delta was the saving grace in all this - transporting these "spare" seatbelts from JFK to ORD! Go DeltaDash!!! :stirthepot: :lol:
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Armodeen
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:29 pm

Seatbelts are safety critical and are highly visible. One can't help but wonder about the parts you can't see.
 
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LTU932
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:35 pm

I never knew seatbelt tags were that safety critical. I would have been more worried if the seatbelt itself was damaged, but better safe than sorry. Considering the issues AI is going through which could come at the expense of safety and maintenance, I'd say it was a good call by the FAA.
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aeropix
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:38 pm

When I was groundstaff for Southwest in the 1990s the LAX FAA inspector had a rampage for our planes for a while. We had a flight grounded because the placards in the overhead locker stating "Weight Limit 50 pounds" were worn. He would not let the plane depart until we made individually hand written placards (no Xerox copies allowed) for each and every overhead bin.

My point is that the FAA does not play favorites and can get any airline even the US ones for petty issues like these. I have seen it myself.
 
chinmay17shetye
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:45 pm

AI is wrong no doubt but FAA is making a mountain out of a molehill. You don't give someone a sentence 20 years for a parking ticket.
The FAA should realize that there are a lot more factors that guarantee safety which are a lot more important when compared to faded seat belt signs.
 
jetmatt777
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:50 pm

chinmay17shetye wrote:
AI is wrong no doubt but FAA is making a mountain out of a molehill. You don't give someone a sentence 20 years for a parking ticket.
The FAA should realize that there are a lot more factors that guarantee safety which are a lot more important when compared to faded seat belt signs.


We really aren't seeing the full story here. Perhaps a meeting with AI's maintenance directors and the FAA went sour and the FAA is reminding them who's boss? Petty? Sure, but we don't know he motivation behind why the FAA is laying the hammer down. A police officer probably wouldn't write you a ticket for speeding 5mph over the limit, but if you give him an attitude and yell at him he might consider writing the ticket.
 
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Revelation
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:52 pm

DTWLAX wrote:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/air-india-flight-in-us-denied-take-off-over-seat-belt-tags/articleshow/59939095.cms

FAA denies take-off for AI126 due to worn seatbelt tags. I am not sure what the rules are for seatbelts, so cannot say if the FAA went overboard.

I can only imagine the comments here if the roles were reversed and a US aircraft were not allowed to depart DEL due to worn seatbelt tags.

DTWLAX wrote:
It will be interesting to find out what happened to the flight departing from JFK since that aircraft is now short of seatbelts.

From the article:
Air India had another B-777 parked in nearby New York’s John F Kennedy Airport. The airline took out some seat belts from this plane (VT-ALJ) and flew them to Chicago on a Delta flight.

Also sure to raise comments about AI's strategy (or lack thereof) for spare parts.

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jumbojet
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:00 pm

Revelation wrote:
DTWLAX wrote:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/transportation/airlines-/-aviation/air-india-flight-in-us-denied-take-off-over-seat-belt-tags/articleshow/59939095.cms

FAA denies take-off for AI126 due to worn seatbelt tags. I am not sure what the rules are for seatbelts, so cannot say if the FAA went overboard.

I can only imagine the comments here if the roles were reversed and a US aircraft were not allowed to depart DEL due to worn seatbelt tags.

DTWLAX wrote:
It will be interesting to find out what happened to the flight departing from JFK since that aircraft is now short of seatbelts.

From the article:
Air India had another B-777 parked in nearby New York’s John F Kennedy Airport. The airline took out some seat belts from this plane (VT-ALJ) and flew them to Chicago on a Delta flight.

Also sure to raise comments about AI's strategy (or lack thereof) for spare parts.

Time to get out the popcorn.


Looks like it was Delta to the rescue. I wonder how much DL charged AI to transport these items and I wonder if this was Emirates if DL would have helped out?
 
flyguy84
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:10 pm

jumbojet wrote:
Looks like it was Delta to the rescue. I wonder how much DL charged AI to transport these items and I wonder if this was Emirates if DL would have helped out?

It's called an AOG program. All airlines ship parts on other airlines. It wasn't like delta went out of their way to help. They just happened to have a flight JFK-ORD.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:38 pm

Revelation wrote:
I can only imagine the comments here if the roles were reversed and a US aircraft were not allowed to depart DEL due to worn seatbelt tags.


Someone better catch up with their deferred maintenance schedule.
All posts are just opinions.
 
jumbojet
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:06 pm

flyguy84 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Looks like it was Delta to the rescue. I wonder how much DL charged AI to transport these items and I wonder if this was Emirates if DL would have helped out?

It's called an AOG program. All airlines ship parts on other airlines. It wasn't like delta went out of their way to help. They just happened to have a flight JFK-ORD.


doesn't change the fact that Delta helped, rescued, whatever verb you want to use, get AI X # of parts from point A to point B.
 
Dalmd88
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:07 pm

I've worked for three airline over the last thirty years. Seen this at all three including my current one. This a favorite FAA write up. It's easy to find and the tags have to be there. Just like the faded/missing placard write up. There is zero excuse for getting gigged for these simple items. If you can't keep the simple items correct what are you doing with the complex things?

Some have said it's not important. The tag says it is the correct part. Not some cheap knock off.
 
BooDog
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 6:34 pm

I work in the wind turbine industry, where we wear safety lanyards made out of the same material as seat belts. We have to dispose of them after five years from the date of manufacture, no matter the condition. If the date of manufacture tag is missing, we have to dispose of it. From what I understand, UV rays, mold, dirt, and other substances causes the webbing to deteriorate. Would not be surprised if FAA has similar rules for seat belts.
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wjcandee
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:09 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
There is zero excuse for getting gigged for these simple items. If you can't keep the simple items correct what are you doing with the complex things?
Some have said it's not important. The tag says it is the correct part. Not some cheap knock off.


Right. In the restaurant business, its the equivalent of getting written up for not having soap or paper towel at a hand sink in the kitchen, or not having raw food labelled as to its supplier or cooked food labelled as to what it is and the date of its preparation. Inspectors love to write restaurants up over stuff like this, even if it might seem minor to some people. However, the rules requiring these things are there for all to see; they are basic, basic practices in any good commercial kitchen, and if you can't operate your kitchen well enough that your folks don't check and maintain these things flawlessly, it's an indication of bigger problems. It indicates sloppiness. It indicates that food safety isn't being prioritized over something else.

Which place would you rather eat at: (1) When the inspector walks in and points out a soapless handwashing sink near the employee restroom, the manager says, "Oh my gosh!! The soap was half-full when I checked it at the start of the shift. Joe, run in the back and get me a replacement soap cartridge immediately, please! Did nobody notice this?", OR
(2) the manager says, "Oh, yeah. I ordered more soap last week when I noticed it was out."

For this same reason, if you ever walked in a kitchen or storeroom at a restaurant in which I was a partner, you would, always, see every label facing forward on every item on every neatly-organized shelf. Why? One of several reasons is that an inspector knows that if we're taking the time and spending the labor $$ to be obsessive about that, he should be predisposed to think that we're taking the time to do our best on other stuff.

While something as simple as seatbelt labels may not seem important to the general public, in the context of the regulated business, where everyone knows that you have to do this kind of basic stuff right, it should be considered an embarrassing failure. That it apparently wasn't by AI is probably the reason the plane was grounded.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:15 pm

LTU932 wrote:
... but better safe than sorry. Considering the issues AI is going through which could come at the expense of safety and maintenance, I'd say it was a good call by the FAA.


I disagree on both points.

Being over cautious grounds a plane and costs money and makes passengers mad for no reason. Better to either let it fly or ground it for an actual safety-related cause.

A good call by the FAA would be to either find an actual problem, or let it fly.

My guess would be that if you went over a fleet of airplanes and their records you could ground lots of them. Somewhere (back in 1974??) someone misspelled a part name on a maintenance log.
 
grbauc
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:15 pm

Dalmd88 wrote:
I've worked for three airline over the last thirty years. Seen this at all three including my current one. This a favorite FAA write up. It's easy to find and the tags have to be there. Just like the faded/missing placard write up. There is zero excuse for getting gigged for these simple items. If you can't keep the simple items correct what are you doing with the complex things?

Some have said it's not important. The tag says it is the correct part. Not some cheap knock off.



Thanks this put the issue in the proper perspective. So it's a good thing they have FAA is being a stickler on small things because they could lead to big things.
 
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kitplane01
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:17 pm

jetmatt777 wrote:
chinmay17shetye wrote:
AI is wrong no doubt but FAA is making a mountain out of a molehill. You don't give someone a sentence 20 years for a parking ticket.
The FAA should realize that there are a lot more factors that guarantee safety which are a lot more important when compared to faded seat belt signs.


We really aren't seeing the full story here. Perhaps a meeting with AI's maintenance directors and the FAA went sour and the FAA is reminding them who's boss? Petty? Sure, but we don't know he motivation behind why the FAA is laying the hammer down. A police officer probably wouldn't write you a ticket for speeding 5mph over the limit, but if you give him an attitude and yell at him he might consider writing the ticket.


Suppose what you're saying was true. That would be an abuse of power. We're going to cost you lots of money, and make your passengers mad, because we didn't like the attitude you had in a meeting and wanted to make sure you know we're the boss???
 
dcajet
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:25 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
A good call by the FAA would be to either find an actual problem, or let it fly.

My guess would be that if you went over a fleet of airplanes and their records you could ground lots of them. Somewhere (back in 1974??) someone misspelled a part name on a maintenance log.


This is an ACTUAL problem. We are talking 44 sets of safety belts and 12 jumpseats with worn or missing ID placards/tags. Have you heard of phony parts making their rounds in the industry? If AI can't demonstrate the origin of those parts, we have a major issue here. It is not the FAA that is inconveniencing the travel public, it is AI and its sloppy ways.

BTW, AI seems to have a lingering issue with record keeping apparently. I am happy to be proven wrong, but when they were in the process of selling those 772LR to Etihad, didn't they have a similar issue with some of those planes' records?
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ltbewr
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:28 pm

I presume there are labels on the seat belts as to their date of manufacturing and the FAA has a rule that they cannot be used beyond a certain number of years from that date. Per other comments, this is where IA got caught on. Maybe it might be garbage rule, especially if only a few weeks or a month or 2, but rules are rules and for good reason.
 
Bartonsayswhat
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:40 pm

On the aircraft I work on, albeit much smaller than the 777, checking seat belts for wear, and the visibility of tags comes up every 100h. Not sure how often it would come up on a 777, but its a task during an inspection that someone would have had to sign off as completed. If they pencil whip this simple task, what else are they whipping.

Most of the seat belts we have on our plane now have the TSO info stamped onto a metal tag, so the tag will probably out live the seat belt. Makes the inspection very easy.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:58 pm

My guess is that there was a previous warning (at least AI internal), and this was a follow-up that AI failed. The FAA can access Mx logs (even in an en-route inspection). IOW, a deferred Mx item that got too deferred.

8. PERFORMING THE COCKPIT EN ROUTE INSPECTION.
A. Aircraft Maintenance Log Review. There have been instances where ASIs have found open discrepancies or improperly deferred minimum equipment list (MEL) items during the review of the aircraft maintenance log, which have resulted in lengthy delays to departure. Findings such as these must be investigated, which might cause a delay. However, you can possibly affect the timing and length of the delay by performing a quick review of the aircraft maintenance log as soon as is practical after boarding the aircraft, or as conditions allow and time permits. Asking the flightcrew if there are any open MEL items can save you time during the initial review. Remember, time is a factor when you perform your inspection, and you can always perform a thorough review of the log during the flight.
http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8300.10%20Ai ... 004_00.htm
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:08 pm

deltadawg wrote:
Sounds like this is a situation where perhaps the FAA has heard enough rumors and decided to pay a visit and they were going to find something no matter the severity in order to make a point. Can't say I ever remember a flight being grounded due to seatbelt tags but then again the FAA will say they are averting a tragedy also. No winners here but it would be nice to see a photo of one of the worn seatbelt tags and the seatbelts themselves for reference.

The important fact in this entire story is that Delta was the saving grace in all this - transporting these "spare" seatbelts from JFK to ORD! Go DeltaDash!!! :stirthepot: :lol:


That's what I was thinking. I've never heard of this type of inspection, and the fact they did find violations can't be coincidence .
 
Canuck600
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:12 pm

It would also show that it's a legitimate & appropriate part and not a black market knock off. Everything in aviation has to have a documented paper trail. You could have a perfect brand new part but without paperwork showing it's origin, specifications & history it's useless.

ltbewr wrote:
I presume there are labels on the seat belts as to their date of manufacturing and the FAA has a rule that they cannot be used beyond a certain number of years from that date. Per other comments, this is where IA got caught on. Maybe it might be garbage rule, especially if only a few weeks or a month or 2, but rules are rules and for good reason.
 
Canuck600
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:15 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
deltadawg wrote:
Sounds like this is a situation where perhaps the FAA has heard enough rumors and decided to pay a visit and they were going to find something no matter the severity in order to make a point. Can't say I ever remember a flight being grounded due to seatbelt tags but then again the FAA will say they are averting a tragedy also. No winners here but it would be nice to see a photo of one of the worn seatbelt tags and the seatbelts themselves for reference.

The important fact in this entire story is that Delta was the saving grace in all this - transporting these "spare" seatbelts from JFK to ORD! Go DeltaDash!!! :stirthepot: :lol:


That's what I was thinking. I've never heard of this type of inspection, and the fact they did find violations can't be coincidence .


It's called a ramp check or ramp inspection. quite common. Done all over the world, if you Google you will find lots of information & the rules in various countries around these inspections..
Last edited by Canuck600 on Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
mozart
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:23 pm

jumbojet wrote:

doesn't change the fact that Delta helped, rescued, whatever verb you want to use, get AI X # of parts from point A to point B.


Except that verbs like "rescue" and "help" are misleading and frankly a little ridiculous. They imply that Delta has done something that is outside its normal business procedure, when all they did is transport some freight on one of its flights. Pretty much what an airline does, isn't it? Unless you call "rescue" when they transport a piece of luggage that you check in (and pay for one way or another). I would call it transport.
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:23 pm

Canuck600 wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
deltadawg wrote:
Sounds like this is a situation where perhaps the FAA has heard enough rumors and decided to pay a visit and they were going to find something no matter the severity in order to make a point. Can't say I ever remember a flight being grounded due to seatbelt tags but then again the FAA will say they are averting a tragedy also. No winners here but it would be nice to see a photo of one of the worn seatbelt tags and the seatbelts themselves for reference.

The important fact in this entire story is that Delta was the saving grace in all this - transporting these "spare" seatbelts from JFK to ORD! Go DeltaDash!!! :stirthepot: :lol:


That's what I was thinking. I've never heard of this type of inspection, and the fact they did find violations can't be coincidence .


In Canada it would be called a ramp inspection. quite common.


Understand and it something you'd probably not think about until it occurs. Plus, AI will never be accused of being a five-star airline.
 
B737900ER
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:29 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:

That's what I was thinking. I've never heard of this type of inspection, and the fact they did find violations can't be coincidence .

There is an FAA required placard list. Airlines have inspection cards for them that are scheduled regularly. There's really no excuse for them to be missing. Believe me the FAA checks all the time. You don't hear about violations because most airlines actually comply with their inspection requirements. The fact that AI had as many seat belts without the required info on them is inexcusable, and very telling of their broader maintenance practices
 
AAvgeek744
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:36 pm

B737900ER wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:

That's what I was thinking. I've never heard of this type of inspection, and the fact they did find violations can't be coincidence .

There is an FAA required placard list. Airlines have inspection cards for them that are scheduled regularly. There's really no excuse for them to be missing. Believe me the FAA checks all the time. You don't hear about violations because most airlines actually comply with their inspection requirements. The fact that AI had as many seat belts without the required info on them is inexcusable, and very telling of their broader maintenance practices



Thanks for the FYI.
 
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Super80Fan
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:56 pm

Hey, is the FAA the only competent government agency in this country? Serious question, seems every other agency is either paid off or full of lazy government stooges who enjoy collecting taxpayer dollars to sit in offices all day. Good for the FAA actually doing their job.
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dtw2hyd
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:58 pm

Random ramp checks are always good. May be this will motivate AI and redo their torn interiors.

It is not easy to hide aircraft mx history, particularly with B787. Health logs are almost real time sent to Boeing and FAA has access to those logs. They know its life history before it lands here. Not sure how advanced B777 monitoring.
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JBLUA320
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:03 pm

kitplane01 wrote:
LTU932 wrote:
... but better safe than sorry. Considering the issues AI is going through which could come at the expense of safety and maintenance, I'd say it was a good call by the FAA.


I disagree on both points.

Being over cautious grounds a plane and costs money and makes passengers mad for no reason. Better to either let it fly or ground it for an actual safety-related cause.

A good call by the FAA would be to either find an actual problem, or let it fly.

My guess would be that if you went over a fleet of airplanes and their records you could ground lots of them. Somewhere (back in 1974??) someone misspelled a part name on a maintenance log.


The tags are a big problem because, as previously stated, they are the only way to know that the seatbelts installed are the certified, actual product required and approved by the FAA. Given all the turbulence-related injuries where a seatbelt could have been the difference between a broken neck or no injury at all, I find it questionable that you'd trivialize something like this.

It's worth noting that at all the airlines I've worked at including my current employer (total of 4), even a frayed seatbelt was taken seriously and replaced as quickly as possible, regardless of the quality of the tag.
 
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OA940
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:25 pm

What the hell is a seat belt tag?!
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OB1504
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:35 pm

As a reminder, this is what happens when you use unapproved parts. It's definitely a safety issue if AI can't prove where they got their parts from, and could indicate bigger problems. The FAA are right to be sticklers.
 
Antarius
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:02 pm

OA940 wrote:
What the hell is a seat belt tag?!


Tag on the seat belt that denotes rating, compliance and date of manufacture among other things.

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kalvado
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:09 pm

OB1504 wrote:
As a reminder, this is what happens when you use unapproved parts. It's definitely a safety issue if AI can't prove where they got their parts from, and could indicate bigger problems. The FAA are right to be sticklers.

Did anyone actually menti0ned counterfeit parts, or that is your own interpretation?

As for "is it reasonable"... Remember AA approximately 1" grounding? Just as a reminder this is what happens when when government agency goes OOC.
 
panampreflight
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Sun Aug 06, 2017 10:19 pm

Antarius wrote:
OA940 wrote:
What the hell is a seat belt tag?!


Tag on the seat belt that denotes rating, compliance and date of manufacture among other things.

Image



Yes, I have seen these so worn they can't be read, lol. But they are so tough I can't imagine them breaking.
 
gopal
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:04 am

I agree with those who think that this was the result of a souring of relationship between AI Maintenance and FAA Reps. It would be interested to go through the records to see if Air India was given a warning on this before and this was a final act to force AI to take action.
 
B737900ER
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:10 am

kalvado wrote:

As for "is it reasonable"... Remember AA approximately 1" grounding? Just as a reminder this is what happens when when government agency goes OOC.

It's a government agency doing its job. Aviation has a good safety record for a reason. People forget flying is inherently dangerous. What keeps you safe is adherence to those standards you complain about. A seatbelt may not seem like a big deal to you, but the level of neglect that AI shows towards that tells a larger story about their mentality towards the safe operation of their aircraft.
 
kalvado
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Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:32 am

B737900ER wrote:
kalvado wrote:

As for "is it reasonable"... Remember AA approximately 1" grounding? Just as a reminder this is what happens when when government agency goes OOC.

It's a government agency doing its job. Aviation has a good safety record for a reason. People forget flying is inherently dangerous. What keeps you safe is adherence to those standards you complain about. A seatbelt may not seem like a big deal to you, but the level of neglect that AI shows towards that tells a larger story about their mentality towards the safe operation of their aircraft.

Do you remember the situation I am talking about? It had 0 to do with safety and 100% power trip by FAA.
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 8288
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:49 am

B737900ER wrote:
...but the level of neglect that AI shows towards that tells a larger story about their mentality towards the safe operation of their aircraft.


So, what is the larger story, their B77Ws have CFM56s???

Knowing how Indians abuse AI planes, AI better to have metal tags to be in compliance. Those are not going last one year.
All posts are just opinions.
 
Waterbomber
Posts: 849
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:51 am

Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:50 am

What I experience so often that it's madening is seatbelts with the buckle-side installed flipped 90 degrees so that you have to wear it twisted or with the buckle protruding into your stomach. I've had it with all airlines I use frequently except JAL.
Each time it makes me wonder about all the other things that could be wrong with the aircraft if they can't be bothered to install simple seatbelts correctly.

A twisted belt is a real safety issue.

The FAA and other national bodies have inspectors but all they do is check paperwork, tags, etc... because it's easy to prove and probably the only thing that most of them know how to check. If you know an aircraft type well, you know what to look for, but then you don't end up being an inspector.
If you do a thorough check and know what to look for, you could virtually find something on any aircraft.

It's very rare for countries to conduct "SAFA" inspections as it's considered rude and hostile.
When they do, there is usually already something cooking in the background.
Last edited by Waterbomber on Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:03 am, edited 5 times in total.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2736
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 12:58 am

Waterbomber wrote:
What I experience so often that it's madening is seatbelts with the buckle-side installed flipped 90 degrees so that you have to wear it twisted or with the buckle protruding into your stomach. I've had it with all airlines I use frequently except JAL.
Each time it makes me wonder about all the other things that could be wrong with the aircraft if they can't be bothered to install simple seatbelts correctly.

A twisted belt is a real safety issue.

From what I see in this thread, I wouldn't be surprised if it is not a bug, but a feature.
Looks like seatbelts have to be installed so that tags attached to one side are available for inspection. Position of a buckle is not documented, though - and if it goes the other way, so be it. Would be just another example when bureaucracy in the name of safety trumps actual safety.
 
NozPerry
Posts: 139
Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:12 am

Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:36 am

All I've seen is people saying "What is a seatbelt tag?" when from a quick search of google images you can see what one is and what it says on it.
Normally it is not a fairly trivial item but in my three years experience with different airlines they handle it differently i.e. when one end of the seatbelt is damaged there are normally spares with the Infant Seatbelts but the seatbelt itself has important information such as: compliance (FAA, EASA etc), weight it can withstand, the maintainer (normally the manufacturer). If these are gone on one seatbelt they could block the seat off for use but when it becomes more seats and seatbelts then it can be an underlying cause or an ongoing issue.
I love the feel of a Go Around in the morning
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:08 am

kalvado wrote:
B737900ER wrote:
kalvado wrote:

As for "is it reasonable"... Remember AA approximately 1" grounding? Just as a reminder this is what happens when when government agency goes OOC.

It's a government agency doing its job. Aviation has a good safety record for a reason. People forget flying is inherently dangerous. What keeps you safe is adherence to those standards you complain about. A seatbelt may not seem like a big deal to you, but the level of neglect that AI shows towards that tells a larger story about their mentality towards the safe operation of their aircraft.

Do you remember the situation I am talking about? It had 0 to do with safety and 100% power trip by FAA.

It doesn't matter. The standards are set and airlines agree to abide by the standards, no matter how asinine we think they are.
 
kalvado
Posts: 2736
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:29 am

Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:15 am

B737900ER wrote:
kalvado wrote:
B737900ER wrote:
It's a government agency doing its job. Aviation has a good safety record for a reason. People forget flying is inherently dangerous. What keeps you safe is adherence to those standards you complain about. A seatbelt may not seem like a big deal to you, but the level of neglect that AI shows towards that tells a larger story about their mentality towards the safe operation of their aircraft.

Do you remember the situation I am talking about? It had 0 to do with safety and 100% power trip by FAA.

It doesn't matter. The standards are set and airlines agree to abide by the standards, no matter how asinine we think they are.

Simple question: do you remember AA wire harness situation on MD80? I am discussing that particular example, where bureaucracy trumped engineering. Bold words about bureaucracy being so beautiful are great when tax dollars get wasted for the sake of waste....
 
BENAir01
Posts: 418
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:42 pm

Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:36 am

jumbojet wrote:
flyguy84 wrote:
jumbojet wrote:
Looks like it was Delta to the rescue. I wonder how much DL charged AI to transport these items and I wonder if this was Emirates if DL would have helped out?

It's called an AOG program. All airlines ship parts on other airlines. It wasn't like delta went out of their way to help. They just happened to have a flight JFK-ORD.


doesn't change the fact that Delta helped, rescued, whatever verb you want to use, get AI X # of parts from point A to point B.

The only reason it was DL is because they happen to operate multiple nonstop JFK-ORD flights. That's literally the only reason it was DL.
Why is flying so expensive? And why is flying well so much more?
 
bennett123
Posts: 9631
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: FAA bars AI 126 ORD-DEL from flying

Mon Aug 07, 2017 6:59 am

IMO, the biggest concern is that so many were missing or unreadable.

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