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N62NA
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:28 am

tphuang wrote:
If they put A321T on MIA-LAX, I don't think it will do worse than JFK-SFO. This is based on the # of free upgrades and the corporate/travel agency pricing I've heard on JFK-SFO route.


I really never did understand JFK-SFO on AA. Is MIA-LAX that much less "premium / prestige" than JFK-SFO?
 
jasoncrh
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:53 am

nothing to do with "prestige" and everything to do with Premium. in general, JFK-SFO just attract a higher than normal percentage of high fare, paid traffic (like $1800-$3000 roundtrip fares in business/ first on jfk-sfo, similar pricing onJFKLAX.. and these are the non refundable "discount" fares, not the highest fares in the market) due to the preponderance of corporate traffic on the route. that's what makes a route "premium". meanwhile, MIA-LAX frequently has $1200-$1800 refundable (iE, highest fares, non discount, fares) roundtrip fares MIA-LAX on AA. There's NOTHING premium about that, and that fare is available all throughout September and October. JFKSFO/LAXSFO just has more of this traffic willing to pay the higher fares. That's why it has A321 T and what pays for A321T. That's why MIA LAX doesnt. Without the need for the aircraft rotation, MIA LAX would probably never had those on again off again 3 cabin planes over the years.

N62NA wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If they put A321T on MIA-LAX, I don't think it will do worse than JFK-SFO. This is based on the # of free upgrades and the corporate/travel agency pricing I've heard on JFK-SFO route.


I really never did understand JFK-SFO on AA. Is MIA-LAX that much less "premium / prestige" than JFK-SFO?
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:18 am

formeraa wrote:
panampreflight wrote:
atl100million wrote:
More reason for DL to pick up service form the one they have. I used to fly Pan Am LAX-MIA on 747 at 1pm, daily service. So sad AA has invested in these terrible narrow-bodies. AA is no PA!. Never was, never will be my friends.


Wow...just wow! Where exactly is Pan Am today? Oh, that's right, they went OUT OF BUSINESS 25 years ago! Thankfully, AA is no PA...


AA just got lucky, the Unions killed Pan Am, AA was peanut gallery back in the early 80's and was losing money badly like everyone else, they were broke and losing money just like PA. The difference was that Pan Am was flying 17 years before WWII and taught the U.S Government how to work and live in aviation for the war. It was a requirement to attend Pan Am Flight training. That's who PA was and now Delta. Which is ran very nicely I must say.Check the history books on this one, Pan Am created everything in aviation, everyone else copied them.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:21 am

wn676 wrote:
panampreflight wrote:
I put my sister on a round-trip ORD-PHX-ORD and she only got 300 actual miles each way.


Under the current earning scheme, that means the ticket was only $120. Are you really shocked that only 600 total miles were earned?


Yes, I am shocked, sadly it used to be almost 3000. Watered down, now Frontier is better for free tix.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:28 am

N62NA wrote:
I don't know that it's hysteria on this thread. For me, it's disappointment coupled with real proof now that the a.net myth that MIA-LAX is some kind of a special "premium market" has finally been shattered.

In the future, I'll try doing a widebody to widebody connection via DFW if the schedule works out and if not, then I'll reluctantly trudge up to FLL and take B6 Mint.


just checked the tariff and the Mint experience is $300 less than AA. I would give it a try if and when the 77W disappears from the schedule.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:31 am

AA has eight flights a day to / from LAX-MIA, they are the kings on that route boys and girls.
 
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N62NA
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:37 am

jasoncrh wrote:
nothing to do with "prestige" and everything to do with Premium. in general, JFK-SFO just attract a higher than normal percentage of high fare, paid traffic (like $1800-$3000 roundtrip fares in business/ first on jfk-sfo, similar pricing onJFKLAX.. and these are the non refundable "discount" fares, not the highest fares in the market) due to the preponderance of corporate traffic on the route. that's what makes a route "premium". meanwhile, MIA-LAX frequently has $1200-$1800 refundable (iE, highest fares, non discount, fares) roundtrip fares MIA-LAX on AA. There's NOTHING premium about that, and that fare is available all throughout September and October. JFKSFO/LAXSFO just has more of this traffic willing to pay the higher fares. That's why it has A321 T and what pays for A321T. That's why MIA LAX doesnt. Without the need for the aircraft rotation, MIA LAX would probably never had those on again off again 3 cabin planes over the years.


I noticed a few months ago that AA no longer offered non-refundable J/F fares on MIA-LAX.

Well, I guess we Miami AA flyers are stuck with the standard domestic hard (and those F seats are like sitting on a cement slab on the 32B aircraft) product, unfortunately.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:38 am

Maybe B6 Mint at FLL is the real winner, and AA just decided it wasn't worth a fight. Fights cost money and fliers seem to rave about MINT. For all we know the few actual cash paying passengers could hate AA and prefer B6, the FFs could be gone. AA if they are flying all regular recliner first class even for a month, shows its really not that hot a route. They would be crushing loyal fliers right to MINT they could easily keep with a 321T.

I know they had to position a 77W and thats all it maybe was a way to position the plane to LAX. They may bring it back, i guess lets see, but i never thought anything at miami is really very premium heavy no matter what people say on here.
 
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:41 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Maybe B6 Mint at FLL is the real winner, and AA just decided it wasn't worth a fight. Fights cost money and fliers seem to rave about MINT. For all we know the few actual cash paying passengers could hate AA and prefer B6, the FFs could be gone. AA if they are flying all regular recliner first class even for a month, shows its really not that hot a route. They would be crushing loyal fliers right to MINT they could easily keep with a 321T.


If they would just cut back on 1 JFK-LAX frequency and use that plane on MIA-LAX I'm sure many would appreciate it
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:07 am

N62NA wrote:
slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Maybe B6 Mint at FLL is the real winner, and AA just decided it wasn't worth a fight. Fights cost money and fliers seem to rave about MINT. For all we know the few actual cash paying passengers could hate AA and prefer B6, the FFs could be gone. AA if they are flying all regular recliner first class even for a month, shows its really not that hot a route. They would be crushing loyal fliers right to MINT they could easily keep with a 321T.


If they would just cut back on 1 JFK-LAX frequency and use that plane on MIA-LAX I'm sure many would appreciate it


That's grossly inefficient to run such a small coach cabin on MIALAX.

AA is working on a plan to start using the lie flat 757s transcon (not just on MIALAX). There are definitely hurdles with gates at LAX, and I think they might be used on JFK flying first, but we'll hopefully see AA work it out.

Unfortunately as part of AA's need for more gates at LAX, it gave up a significant amount of widebody gate capacity when it started building gates.
a.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:11 am

slcdeltarumd11 wrote:
Maybe B6 Mint at FLL is the real winner, and AA just decided it wasn't worth a fight. Fights cost money and fliers seem to rave about MINT. For all we know the few actual cash paying passengers could hate AA and prefer B6, the FFs could be gone. AA if they are flying all regular recliner first class even for a month, shows its really not that hot a route. They would be crushing loyal fliers right to MINT they could easily keep with a 321T.

I know they had to position a 77W and thats all it maybe was a way to position the plane to LAX. They may bring it back, i guess lets see, but i never thought anything at miami is really very premium heavy no matter what people say on here.


Reality prove otherwise. MIA is no NYC, but traditionally a strong premium market for airlines, hence why airlines across the board tend to send their premium configured planes to Miami.
a.
 
tphuang
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:31 am

jasoncrh wrote:
nothing to do with "prestige" and everything to do with Premium. in general, JFK-SFO just attract a higher than normal percentage of high fare, paid traffic (like $1800-$3000 roundtrip fares in business/ first on jfk-sfo, similar pricing onJFKLAX.. and these are the non refundable "discount" fares, not the highest fares in the market) due to the preponderance of corporate traffic on the route. that's what makes a route "premium". meanwhile, MIA-LAX frequently has $1200-$1800 refundable (iE, highest fares, non discount, fares) roundtrip fares MIA-LAX on AA. There's NOTHING premium about that, and that fare is available all throughout September and October. JFKSFO/LAXSFO just has more of this traffic willing to pay the higher fares. That's why it has A321 T and what pays for A321T. That's why MIA LAX doesnt. Without the need for the aircraft rotation, MIA LAX would probably never had those on again off again 3 cabin planes over the years.

N62NA wrote:
tphuang wrote:
If they put A321T on MIA-LAX, I don't think it will do worse than JFK-SFO. This is based on the # of free upgrades and the corporate/travel agency pricing I've heard on JFK-SFO route.


I really never did understand JFK-SFO on AA. Is MIA-LAX that much less "premium / prestige" than JFK-SFO?

I find sub 700 one way j seat on JFK sfo all the time. According to what i have been hearing, aa has been quoting a lot lower, think sub 600 in j class on travel agencies and corporate accounts. It is also not very hard to get complimentary upgrade on this hard. A lot of this really has to do with all the premium capacity added by mint. On JFK lax, aa gets the kind of high yielding first class passengers that they don't get on JFK sfo.

Aa has been very strategic in their public pricing but whether or not the actual paying customers are higher yielding on JFK to sfo or Mia to lax, I don't think it's a straight forward answer.
 
commavia
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:15 pm

N62NA wrote:
If they would just cut back on 1 JFK-LAX frequency and use that plane on MIA-LAX I'm sure many would appreciate it


But why on earth would AA do that? JFK-LAX is an exceptionally competitive route where both frequency and product matter tremendously in attracting high-yielding business traffic. MIA-LAX, by contrast, is a route where AA is utterly dominant and faces minimal competition in terms of both frequency and product. So why would AA pull a very low density, very premium aircraft off of the former to put it on the latter?

MAH4546 wrote:
AA is working on a plan to start using the lie flat 757s transcon (not just on MIALAX).


I sincerely hope that's true.

With AA's international 757 flying continuing to decline, the natural place to put some of those planes is on competitive transcons. I would love to see AA doing 3x daily JY 757s on BOS-LAX and 2x daily on each of JFK-SEA, JFK-SAN, DCA-LAX and yes (beating a dead horse) BOS-SFO. All of that would account for the utilization of less than half of AA's JY 757 fleet that, otherwise, is only really going to be needed at this point for, essentially, a smattering of routes to Europe and South America that can easily be operated with the remainder of the JY-configured 757 fleet not doing transcons.

All that said - I'll very much believe it when I see it.
 
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:03 pm

commavia wrote:
N62NA wrote:
If they would just cut back on 1 JFK-LAX frequency and use that plane on MIA-LAX I'm sure many would appreciate it


But why on earth would AA do that? JFK-LAX is an exceptionally competitive route where both frequency and product matter tremendously in attracting high-yielding business traffic. MIA-LAX, by contrast, is a route where AA is utterly dominant and faces minimal competition in terms of both frequency and product. So why would AA pull a very low density, very premium aircraft off of the former to put it on the latter?


As we have been lectured by the a.net "experts" here, it's not MIA-LAX, it's South Florida-LAX because MIA and FLL serve the same market.

So AA now has B6 competing with them and offering a lie flat product to LAX.
 
commavia
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:05 pm

N62NA wrote:
As we have been lectured by the a.net "experts" here, it's not MIA-LAX, it's South Florida-LAX because MIA and FLL serve the same market.

So AA now has B6 competing with them and offering a lie flat product to LAX.


Right, so like I said, AA has "minimal" (note I specifically did not say "zero") competition in terms of both frequency and product. JetBlue has three daily flights between the L.A. Basin and South Florida, two of which have Mint, up against AA's eight daily flights between the two metro areas.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:41 pm

tphuang wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
nothing to do with "prestige" and everything to do with Premium. in general, JFK-SFO just attract a higher than normal percentage of high fare, paid traffic (like $1800-$3000 roundtrip fares in business/ first on jfk-sfo, similar pricing onJFKLAX.. and these are the non refundable "discount" fares, not the highest fares in the market) due to the preponderance of corporate traffic on the route. that's what makes a route "premium". meanwhile, MIA-LAX frequently has $1200-$1800 refundable (iE, highest fares, non discount, fares) roundtrip fares MIA-LAX on AA. There's NOTHING premium about that, and that fare is available all throughout September and October. JFKSFO/LAXSFO just has more of this traffic willing to pay the higher fares. That's why it has A321 T and what pays for A321T. That's why MIA LAX doesnt. Without the need for the aircraft rotation, MIA LAX would probably never had those on again off again 3 cabin planes over the years.

N62NA wrote:

I really never did understand JFK-SFO on AA. Is MIA-LAX that much less "premium / prestige" than JFK-SFO?

I find sub 700 one way j seat on JFK sfo all the time. According to what i have been hearing, aa has been quoting a lot lower, think sub 600 in j class on travel agencies and corporate accounts. It is also not very hard to get complimentary upgrade on this hard. A lot of this really has to do with all the premium capacity added by mint. On JFK lax, aa gets the kind of high yielding first class passengers that they don't get on JFK sfo.

Aa has been very strategic in their public pricing but whether or not the actual paying customers are higher yielding on JFK to sfo or Mia to lax, I don't think it's a straight forward answer.


There are no big discounts to travel agencies or corporate travelers [maybe 3% for big biz] because the published fares are about $528 one way for biz class and then on two class a/c premium economy.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:43 pm

commavia wrote:
N62NA wrote:
As we have been lectured by the a.net "experts" here, it's not MIA-LAX, it's South Florida-LAX because MIA and FLL serve the same market.

So AA now has B6 competing with them and offering a lie flat product to LAX.


Right, so like I said, AA has "minimal" (note I specifically did not say "zero") competition in terms of both frequency and product. JetBlue has three daily flights between the L.A. Basin and South Florida, two of which have Mint, up against AA's eight daily flights between the two metro areas.

Delta has a nonstop service three days a week, don't forget.
 
commavia
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:54 pm

panampreflight wrote:
Delta has a nonstop service three days a week, don't forget.


Indeed, Delta does fly LAX-MIA, as Virgin/Alaska and Spirit also fly LAX-FLL. I was responding specifically to the comment about JetBlue. But for sure, the L.A. Basin to South Florida receives flights by five different airlines between two airports in each metro area. But as said, the reality is that AA handily dominates the market overall - offering more flights than all the other airlines combined.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:57 pm

To be sure!, but I was just looking and DL at First Class for $394.00 ow on a 777 from LAX with a quick 50 minute change in ATL. That's not bad!.
 
travelin man
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:13 pm

panampreflight wrote:
tphuang wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
nothing to do with "prestige" and everything to do with Premium. in general, JFK-SFO just attract a higher than normal percentage of high fare, paid traffic (like $1800-$3000 roundtrip fares in business/ first on jfk-sfo, similar pricing onJFKLAX.. and these are the non refundable "discount" fares, not the highest fares in the market) due to the preponderance of corporate traffic on the route. that's what makes a route "premium". meanwhile, MIA-LAX frequently has $1200-$1800 refundable (iE, highest fares, non discount, fares) roundtrip fares MIA-LAX on AA. There's NOTHING premium about that, and that fare is available all throughout September and October. JFKSFO/LAXSFO just has more of this traffic willing to pay the higher fares. That's why it has A321 T and what pays for A321T. That's why MIA LAX doesnt. Without the need for the aircraft rotation, MIA LAX would probably never had those on again off again 3 cabin planes over the years.


I find sub 700 one way j seat on JFK sfo all the time. According to what i have been hearing, aa has been quoting a lot lower, think sub 600 in j class on travel agencies and corporate accounts. It is also not very hard to get complimentary upgrade on this hard. A lot of this really has to do with all the premium capacity added by mint. On JFK lax, aa gets the kind of high yielding first class passengers that they don't get on JFK sfo.

Aa has been very strategic in their public pricing but whether or not the actual paying customers are higher yielding on JFK to sfo or Mia to lax, I don't think it's a straight forward answer.


There are no big discounts to travel agencies or corporate travelers [maybe 3% for big biz] because the published fares are about $528 one way for biz class and then on two class a/c premium economy.


This is not true at all. Big corporate accounts will get 25% or above discount on Biz class depending on the fare class, regardless of the actual fare.
 
miaami
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:05 pm

It would be nice if AA would stop selling the 77W for the winter schedule. They probably know already that they will not be utilizing the 77W but don't update the schedules more than 2 months out. I'm sure customers booking J and F class for the holidays and early 2018 would appreciate knowing that they will not be getting lay flat seats. Some flights around the holidays will require downgrades to coach since the flight is getting down gauged by 36 J and 8 F seats. Its just poor customer service planning and it effects AA's best customers.
 
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N62NA
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:54 pm

miaami wrote:
It would be nice if AA would stop selling the 77W for the winter schedule. They probably know already that they will not be utilizing the 77W but don't update the schedules more than 2 months out. I'm sure customers booking J and F class for the holidays and early 2018 would appreciate knowing that they will not be getting lay flat seats. Some flights around the holidays will require downgrades to coach since the flight is getting down gauged by 36 J and 8 F seats. Its just poor customer service planning and it effects AA's best customers.


Yes. It's "buyer beware" for sure!
 
panampreflight
Posts: 132
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:52 pm

travelin man wrote:
panampreflight wrote:
tphuang wrote:
I find sub 700 one way j seat on JFK sfo all the time. According to what i have been hearing, aa has been quoting a lot lower, think sub 600 in j class on travel agencies and corporate accounts. It is also not very hard to get complimentary upgrade on this hard. A lot of this really has to do with all the premium capacity added by mint. On JFK lax, aa gets the kind of high yielding first class passengers that they don't get on JFK sfo.

Aa has been very strategic in their public pricing but whether or not the actual paying customers are higher yielding on JFK to sfo or Mia to lax, I don't think it's a straight forward answer.


There are no big discounts to travel agencies or corporate travelers [maybe 3% for big biz] because the published fares are about $528 one way for biz class and then on two class a/c premium economy.


This is not true at all. Big corporate accounts will get 25% or above discount on Biz class depending on the fare class, regardless of the actual fare.


Yes, this is probably true, but only off FULL fares, the discounted flex First and Biz fares are lower always and anyone can get these fares, but I work in this for an airline and few people pay the premium fares. 90 % upgrade on elite status. Its the lay of the land. This all of course does not apply to International.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 25822
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:31 am

In a move that should shock nobody, AA has loaded a daily 772 on the route starting January 18th.
a.

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