redwingspilot
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:17 pm

No worries, the 77W is not running from the October 29th-November 19th, after that it's in the schedule for the foreseeable future.
 
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N62NA
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:28 pm

redwingspilot wrote:
No worries, the 77W is not running from the October 29th-November 19th, after that it's in the schedule for the foreseeable future.


It is highly likely that the schedule beyond November 19th has not yet been finalized and what you are looking at beyond that date is a generic placeholder schedule.
 
WesternA318
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:05 pm

I'm wondering why not stick the 321T on at certain times?
 
miaami
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:55 pm

N62NA wrote:
flymia wrote:
Ok, and it's still showing the 77W for all other dates. I just checked random dates in December and January and the 77W still showing up.

So is this just a rumor? Based on your search on AA.com?


The date that LAX-SYD goes to 789 in late October is the first date that the 77W disappears on MIA-LAX. It's like that through mid-November.

If AA had planned to swap in another 3 class or 2 class lie-flat aircraft on the route, wouldn't they have done it on the date of the LAX-SYD 789 inauguration?

Looking beyond mid November is quite iffy, as that's too far out for anything to be reliable and they are likely keeping the current schedule showing as a placeholder schedule.

I am not at all optimistic that we will see the 77W back starting in mid November.


I agree. Specially with flights 233/234 the day trip MIA-GRU being up gauged to 77W. There are not that many 77W's just sitting around MIA
 
nine4nine
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:00 am

This is sad news for me. I usually take the 8am 77W flight in lie flat business class and the flight is always full. Hard to swallow the fact of settling for a 321 with reclining seats and decent IFE or mostly worn out 738 and no IFE now.
717, 727-100, 727-200, 732, 733, 734, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 742, 748, 752, 753, 762, 763, 772, 77W, 787-10, DC9, MD80/88/90, DC10, 319, 220-300, 320, 321, 321n, 332, 333, CS100, CRJ200, Q400, E175, E190, ERJ145, EMB120
 
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N62NA
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 12:59 am

redwingspilot wrote:
No worries, the 77W is not running from the October 29th-November 19th, after that it's in the schedule for the foreseeable future.


As expected: AA has now loaded schedules beyond November 19th and.... the 77W is gone from MIA-LAX-MIA, replaced with the decidedly non-premium 32B.
 
Jo8338
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 2:10 am

At least through December 14th...... but unlikely to return. I am hopeful the rumor that the 757's coming to that route is true.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:33 am

atl100million wrote:
AA dominates MIA-LAX. it has every reason to reduce capacity and offer a less elaborate product in a market where it will carry the traffic regardless of the product offered.

Of course, other carriers could add or expand service, but AA has every reason to cut capacity and get higher fares where it can.


More reason for DL to pick up service form the one they have. I used to fly Pan Am LAX-MIA on 747 at 1pm, daily service. So sad AA has invested in these terrible narrow-bodies. AA is no PA!. Never was, never will be my friends.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:38 am

AA is going to load LAXPEK soon and needs to source a 777 into Los Angeles, if it launches with a 777. Let's see if they rotate it from Miami or Dallas. The schedule isn't ideal for a MIA rotation, though.

When 787s start flying to Miami, if ever, or if LAXSYD goes back to a 77W (maybe following a JBA approval with QF), that will open the door again. It's interesting AA keeps selling the plane at some point in the future, knowing it can't source it.
a.
 
AA321T
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:56 am

Jo8338 wrote:
At least through December 14th...... but unlikely to return. I am hopeful the rumor that the 757's coming to that route is true.

Very unlikely, as they try to isolate fleet types to specific hubs the 757 will be a very rare visitor to LAX.
 
nutsaboutplanes
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 5:10 am

Also a complete lack of 757 capable gates.
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LY777
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:29 am

AA always disappoints me.
What a shame they don't install IFE the MAX!
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 1:15 pm

It's ironic that doing a connection in DFW will provide a premium, lie flat seat with all the 772s and 763s on MIA-DFW, plus the 789 on DFW-LAX, than the nonstops MIA-LAX.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 3:41 pm

LY777 wrote:
AA always disappoints me.
What a shame they don't install IFE the MAX!


YES!!!
 
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usxguy
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:55 pm

Ive flown F on AA (revenue) MIA/LAX a few times, including twice on the 77W. F is indeed Flagship First service, with access to the FF checkin on both ends, and Flagship Lounge access (is MIA completed yet?). So at least this one flight is considered "premium". My other flights on 737-800/A321s were not quite "premium"...
xx
 
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N62NA
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:54 pm

usxguy wrote:
Ive flown F on AA (revenue) MIA/LAX a few times, including twice on the 77W. F is indeed Flagship First service, with access to the FF checkin on both ends, and Flagship Lounge access (is MIA completed yet?). So at least this one flight is considered "premium". My other flights on 737-800/A321s were not quite "premium"...


And unfortunately all we have to "look forward" to is 5 1/2 hours sitting in those rock hard F seats on the 32B starting in the end of October. :-(
 
Jo8338
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:44 pm

AA is still advertising 3 cabin transcontinental service from MIA - LAX for flagship dining, just go the email yesterday.
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:49 pm

atl100million wrote:
AA dominates MIA-LAX. it has every reason to reduce capacity and offer a less elaborate product in a market where it will carry the traffic regardless of the product offered.

Of course, other carriers could add or expand service, but AA has every reason to cut capacity and get higher fares where it can.


While it's to nearby FLL though, B6 is or will soon be offering an equivalent or better product on South Florida to LAX with Mint. That said, the B77Ws are needed elsewhere and that's an odd route to fly a 352t plane these days.
 
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:47 am

Jo8338 wrote:
AA is still advertising 3 cabin transcontinental service from MIA - LAX for flagship dining, just go the email yesterday.


Well they still do have a single flight each way that is 3 cabin. Though they won't after the end of October.
 
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:29 am

Jo8338 wrote:
AA is still advertising 3 cabin transcontinental service from MIA - LAX for flagship dining, just go the email yesterday.


Hearing 2-class F passengers on MIALAX will also have access to Flagship Dining (as will J passengers on JFK-LAX/SFO).
a.
 
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:39 am

MAH4546 wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
AA is still advertising 3 cabin transcontinental service from MIA - LAX for flagship dining, just go the email yesterday.


Hearing 2-class F passengers on MIALAX will also have access to Flagship Dining (as will J passengers on JFK-LAX/SFO).


Nothing they do pre-boarding will make up for the fact that we will have to endure 5 1/2 hours in a standard, domestic, hard as a rock F seat on a 32B.
 
MAH4546
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 1:52 am

N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
AA is still advertising 3 cabin transcontinental service from MIA - LAX for flagship dining, just go the email yesterday.


Hearing 2-class F passengers on MIALAX will also have access to Flagship Dining (as will J passengers on JFK-LAX/SFO).


Nothing they do pre-boarding will make up for the fact that we will have to endure 5 1/2 hours in a standard, domestic, hard as a rock F seat on a 32B.


Then vote with your wallet like I have and fly Mint. It's far better experience anyway.

And if you don't your just proving to AA they don't have to anything, people will endure it, there's little competition.
a.
 
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:09 am

MAH4546 wrote:
N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Hearing 2-class F passengers on MIALAX will also have access to Flagship Dining (as will J passengers on JFK-LAX/SFO).


Nothing they do pre-boarding will make up for the fact that we will have to endure 5 1/2 hours in a standard, domestic, hard as a rock F seat on a 32B.


Then vote with your wallet like I have and fly Mint. It's far better experience anyway.

And if you don't your just proving to AA they don't have to anything, people will endure it, there's little competition.


Yep!
 
tphuang
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:35 am

Just looking at FT, it's actually pretty interesting how many people have already made the move to mint in spite of B6's lack luster FF program, limited schedule vs AA and FLL location. If B6 starts adding to that limited schedule, things could get interesting here.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:11 am

N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
AA is still advertising 3 cabin transcontinental service from MIA - LAX for flagship dining, just go the email yesterday.


Hearing 2-class F passengers on MIALAX will also have access to Flagship Dining (as will J passengers on JFK-LAX/SFO).


Nothing they do pre-boarding will make up for the fact that we will have to endure 5 1/2 hours in a standard, domestic, hard as a rock F seat on a 32B.


Yes, this is very true.
 
flymia
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:15 am

tphuang wrote:
Just looking at FT, it's actually pretty interesting how many people have already made the move to mint in spite of B6's lack luster FF program, limited schedule vs AA and FLL location. If B6 starts adding to that limited schedule, things could get interesting here.


I wish B6 the best. They seem to be the only airline out there that cares about passenger comfort at all. Really hope they can see some growth over the next few years and differentiate themselves from every other single domestic airline. They have the opportunity to do so.

Another move that makes flying AA less and less likely. It's all about price at this point, or just fly B6.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:19 am

tphuang wrote:
Just looking at FT, it's actually pretty interesting how many people have already made the move to mint in spite of B6's lack luster FF program, limited schedule vs AA and FLL location. If B6 starts adding to that limited schedule, things could get interesting here.


Oh AA's Advantage Program is more lackluster. [I have been a member since 1981. I put my sister on a round-trip ORD-PHX-ORD and she only got 300 actual miles each way. I was shocked. This is all going to backfire on AA and any other airline as I have to explain to her how much her ticket is, what she gets to carry on, how much more her baggage is, how much more the WiFi can be, how much more it will cost her to get a fare that will allow her and her kids to carry on a backpack. I put her on Frontier on another trip [it was non-stop too] and she only has about 3 more roundtrips and she gets a free tix. The seat assignments were only $5 and they had a kids program where the kids get to sit together, and fun things for them. I have a long great history with AA, and its easier on the smaller carriers. Advantage program is worthless now to leisure customers,I mean its offensive.
 
nutsaboutplanes
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:42 am

N62NA wrote:
It's ironic that doing a connection in DFW will provide a premium, lie flat seat with all the 772s and 763s on MIA-DFW, plus the 789 on DFW-LAX, than the nonstops MIA-LAX.


I don't think it's Ironic as much as it is responsible aircraft routing. There are a lot of dramatics in this thread over this change. Transcon flying won't always have a flatbed. Using this logic there should be flatbed to PHL, CLT, DCA, BDL, BOS, MCO and why not add ATL while we are at it.
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commavia
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:11 pm

nutsaboutplanes wrote:
I don't think it's Ironic as much as it is responsible aircraft routing. There are a lot of dramatics in this thread over this change. Transcon flying won't always have a flatbed. Using this logic there should be flatbed to PHL, CLT, DCA, BDL, BOS, MCO and why not add ATL while we are at it.


Agree. I don't quite understand all the hysterics, either. Southern California to South Florida is a market that certainly caters to a significant amount of premium traffic. AA, by nature of its hubs at both ends and eight daily frequencies, naturally captures the vast majority of that premium traffic. AA, apparently, feels that flying a 77W on one daily flight may not be necessary to capture that premium traffic. Is this really that big of news?
 
miaami
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:25 pm

Its also about putting the aircraft in markets that make the most money. With the 77W not needed for the LAX-SYD route the best option to maximize the profit potential is to place the aircraft on MIA-GRU.
 
wn676
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:47 pm

panampreflight wrote:
I put my sister on a round-trip ORD-PHX-ORD and she only got 300 actual miles each way.


Under the current earning scheme, that means the ticket was only $120. Are you really shocked that only 600 total miles were earned?
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
jasoncrh
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 12:58 pm

that happens on many transcons, if not most transcons. Why is MIA somehow special? Whenever I look their fares in paid F are not really all that high, certainly not higher than NYC fares, and according to DOT fare research, they're basically overall average. Why should MIA be special, when its overall transcon paid fare is the same as countless other cities (PHL, CLT, ATL, IAD, BOS, BWI, DCA) that see limited or no flat bed service? I dont understand this entitlement. MIA pax were the lucky beneficiaries of AA aircraft movement between hubs. That's it. If AA saw the same potential for 3 class paid traffic in MIA that it sees in JFK then on transcon routes they would have already put the aircraft there/ dedicated them there full time. period. end of story.


N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:
Jo8338 wrote:
AA is still advertising 3 cabin transcontinental service from MIA - LAX for flagship dining, just go the email yesterday.


Hearing 2-class F passengers on MIALAX will also have access to Flagship Dining (as will J passengers on JFK-LAX/SFO).


Nothing they do pre-boarding will make up for the fact that we will have to endure 5 1/2 hours in a standard, domestic, hard as a rock F seat on a 32B.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:53 pm

nutsaboutplanes wrote:
N62NA wrote:
It's ironic that doing a connection in DFW will provide a premium, lie flat seat with all the 772s and 763s on MIA-DFW, plus the 789 on DFW-LAX, than the nonstops MIA-LAX.


I don't think it's Ironic as much as it is responsible aircraft routing. There are a lot of dramatics in this thread over this change. Transcon flying won't always have a flatbed. Using this logic there should be flatbed to PHL, CLT, DCA, BDL, BOS, MCO and why not add ATL while we are at it.


No, there is not that much demand to all these cities [maybe ATL but that's Delta's Base and AA can't compete there] to justify that inventory. You can't compare those cities to JFK / MIA. No dramatics here just real world demand and profitability [or not if there is too many seats open]. I work in Yield Management for another airline and they already know this, the software we have these days is EXCELLENT on forecasting.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 2:55 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
that happens on many transcons, if not most transcons. Why is MIA somehow special? Whenever I look their fares in paid F are not really all that high, certainly not higher than NYC fares, and according to DOT fare research, they're basically overall average. Why should MIA be special, when its overall transcon paid fare is the same as countless other cities (PHL, CLT, ATL, IAD, BOS, BWI, DCA) that see limited or no flat bed service? I dont understand this entitlement. MIA pax were the lucky beneficiaries of AA aircraft movement between hubs. That's it. If AA saw the same potential for 3 class paid traffic in MIA that it sees in JFK then on transcon routes they would have already put the aircraft there/ dedicated them there full time. period. end of story.


N62NA wrote:
MAH4546 wrote:

Hearing 2-class F passengers on MIALAX will also have access to Flagship Dining (as will J passengers on JFK-LAX/SFO).


Nothing they do pre-boarding will make up for the fact that we will have to endure 5 1/2 hours in a standard, domestic, hard as a rock F seat on a 32B.


MIA is the Gateway to South America and Latin America, No one else comes close.
 
s4popo
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:14 pm

MAH4546 wrote:
Unfortunately AA no longer needs to cycle widebodies between MIA and LAX, with no 787s flying to Miami and no 763s flying to LAX. It now shuffles widebodies via Dallas. MIADFW has 3 777s and 2 763s a day, IIRC.


Is this for all days? I'm connecting in Dallas on October 21st, and couldn't find a single widebody on the MIA-DFW sector.
 
jasoncrh
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:21 pm

I never disputed the notion that MIA is the gateway to South America and Latin America. But that doesnt really support the notion that all these people might be paying for flat bed seats / be willing to do so - for the LAX- MIA flight. LAX has a lot of flying nonstop to south/ latin america anyway, and MIA isnt the only transit location that people from LAX need to go through if they want to go to Latin / South America. There are many nonstop options from LAX, as well as other connection options (through MEX, through PTY, through LIM, through DFW, through ATL, through IAH), so dont really understand that comment. Bottom line - if AA truly saw the opportunity and need, as well as the fares, they would put some premium product on the route like they've done out of JFK. That they havent speaks volumes.

panampreflight wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
that happens on many transcons, if not most transcons. Why is MIA somehow special? Whenever I look their fares in paid F are not really all that high, certainly not higher than NYC fares, and according to DOT fare research, they're basically overall average. Why should MIA be special, when its overall transcon paid fare is the same as countless other cities (PHL, CLT, ATL, IAD, BOS, BWI, DCA) that see limited or no flat bed service? I dont understand this entitlement. MIA pax were the lucky beneficiaries of AA aircraft movement between hubs. That's it. If AA saw the same potential for 3 class paid traffic in MIA that it sees in JFK then on transcon routes they would have already put the aircraft there/ dedicated them there full time. period. end of story.


N62NA wrote:

Nothing they do pre-boarding will make up for the fact that we will have to endure 5 1/2 hours in a standard, domestic, hard as a rock F seat on a 32B.


MIA is the Gateway to South America and Latin America, No one else comes close.
 
panampreflight
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:46 pm

Airlines don't think or work in this way. Its a numbers situation, the software plans fares, etc., unfortunately nothing is perfect but they work hard everyday, I am sure, to try to make everyone happy. All airlines work very hard including AA.
 
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N62NA
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:47 pm

I don't know that it's hysteria on this thread. For me, it's disappointment coupled with real proof now that the a.net myth that MIA-LAX is some kind of a special "premium market" has finally been shattered.

In the future, I'll try doing a widebody to widebody connection via DFW if the schedule works out and if not, then I'll reluctantly trudge up to FLL and take B6 Mint.
 
flymia
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:04 pm

panampreflight wrote:
tphuang wrote:
. Advantage program is worthless now to leisure customers,I mean its offensive.

AA does not care about non-corporate fliers anymore. They will just hope to have them pick them due to a decent fare (with basic economy) and good schedule. The person who does 10 or so round trips a year (a lot more than the average person but not corporate level) and staying loyal used to make sense even if fares were a little higher. Now, forget it, its useless and a waste. I would fly AA 10 times out of 12 flights a year. Now its just about the cheapest option plus comfort and with AA Basic coming around network wide. JetBlue will get the majority of my flying as they already have.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
flymia
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:12 pm

N62NA wrote:
I don't know that it's hysteria on this thread. For me, it's disappointment coupled with real proof now that the a.net myth that MIA-LAX is some kind of a special "premium market" has finally been shattered.
.


I don't see how its been shattered. The 777 has been pulled from the route before and brought back again. No one thinks AA puts the 777 only because its MIA-LAX, but it made a lot of sense with routing of flights. A 777 has been on and off the route since 2003 at the least, that is when I remember flying the 777 from LAX to MIA. AA would not put the plane on the route if the market is not there. Right now, it just makes more sense to place the aircraft somewhere else. That does not mean that the premium market does not exist. It certainly does or else AA would not have been putting the 777 on and off on MIA-LAX for the last 14 years.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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N62NA
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:19 pm

flymia wrote:
N62NA wrote:
I don't know that it's hysteria on this thread. For me, it's disappointment coupled with real proof now that the a.net myth that MIA-LAX is some kind of a special "premium market" has finally been shattered.
.


I don't see how its been shattered. The 777 has been pulled from the route before and brought back again. No one thinks AA puts the 777 only because its MIA-LAX, but it made a lot of sense with routing of flights. A 777 has been on and off the route since 2003 at the least, that is when I remember flying the 777 from LAX to MIA. AA would not put the plane on the route if the market is not there. Right now, it just makes more sense to place the aircraft somewhere else. That does not mean that the premium market does not exist. It certainly does or else AA would not have been putting the 777 on and off on MIA-LAX for the last 14 years.


Totally agree that AA feels they can better use the plane elsewhere. Also agree that it might be back (or a 772, 788, 789, 763 or Intl 757) at some point.

But the claims that have been made here for years that MIA-LAX is just slightly less "preimium" or "prestige" than JFK-LAX/SFO is something I never bought into. AA's history of hard product on this route has demonstrated that all along, yet some on here persisted on claiming that it is a "prestige" kind of route. If it were, we would see a cut back of at least 1x JFK-LAX or JFK-SFO on the 32T and they would have swapped in that aircraft starting in late October. But they didn't even do that.
 
tphuang
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:27 pm

I also think that Mia lax is a special market at least for aa. Just looking at their pricing on this route with a very below average first class product and how hard it is to get an upgrade, it's a more premium route for aa than other transcon routes like dca lax, bos lax, JFK san and JFK sea. It has a unique position where it can get premium vs competitors. As a comparison, Delta is running lie flats on 4 of its 5 JFK sea flights to pressure as and b6. Aa is offering less as it's facing mint pressure.
 
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compensateme
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:48 pm

flymia wrote:
I don't see how its been shattered. The 777 has been pulled from the route before and brought back again. No one thinks AA puts the 777 only because its MIA-LAX, but it made a lot of sense with routing of flights. A 777 has been on and off the route since 2003 at the least, that is when I remember flying the 777 from LAX to MIA. AA would not put the plane on the route if the market is not there. Right now, it just makes more sense to place the aircraft somewhere else. That does not mean that the premium market does not exist. It certainly does or else AA would not have been putting the 777 on and off on MIA-LAX for the last 14 years.


It is a myth; DOT data supports the notion that MIA/LAX is not a premium market. Reality is, AA likely operated the 777 MIA/LAX not because it's a premium market, but because of the dynamics of the hub -- multiple early morning 777 arrivals with really no place to go until the evening, so AA choose to deploy them to LAX (for aircraft utilization, for rotation and to provide a consistent flight experience for those traveling to/from South America).

If MIA/LAX was truly the uber-premium market some of you pretend it is, AA would -- at the very least -- put the 321T on it.
We don’t care what your next flight is.
 
bzcat
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:01 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
I never disputed the notion that MIA is the gateway to South America and Latin America. But that doesnt really support the notion that all these people might be paying for flat bed seats / be willing to do so - for the LAX- MIA flight. LAX has a lot of flying nonstop to south/ latin america anyway, and MIA isnt the only transit location that people from LAX need to go through if they want to go to Latin / South America. There are many nonstop options from LAX, as well as other connection options (through MEX, through PTY, through LIM, through DFW, through ATL, through IAH), so dont really understand that comment. Bottom line - if AA truly saw the opportunity and need, as well as the fares, they would put some premium product on the route like they've done out of JFK. That they havent speaks volumes.


This is likely true... AA used to funnel a lot of AA-South America premium passengers thru MIA (I used to fly 2 or 3 times a year LAX-MIA-GRU).

But with more direct flights from LAX and LATAM codeshares, plus some new DFW connection options, the number of F or J pax on LAX-MIA-South America is probably way smaller than it used to be.

That being said, I still think flat beds will be back in January during NATPE time. I seriously doubt AA will let all its corporate account VIPs defect to JetBlue.
 
formeraa
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:11 pm

panampreflight wrote:
atl100million wrote:
More reason for DL to pick up service form the one they have. I used to fly Pan Am LAX-MIA on 747 at 1pm, daily service. So sad AA has invested in these terrible narrow-bodies. AA is no PA!. Never was, never will be my friends.


Wow...just wow! Where exactly is Pan Am today? Oh, that's right, they went OUT OF BUSINESS 25 years ago! Thankfully, AA is no PA...
 
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jsnww81
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:14 pm

compensateme wrote:
It is a myth; DOT data supports the notion that MIA/LAX is not a premium market. Reality is, AA likely operated the 777 MIA/LAX not because it's a premium market, but because of the dynamics of the hub -- multiple early morning 777 arrivals with really no place to go until the evening, so AA choose to deploy them to LAX (for aircraft utilization, for rotation and to provide a consistent flight experience for those traveling to/from South America).

If MIA/LAX was truly the uber-premium market some of you pretend it is, AA would -- at the very least -- put the 321T on it.


Amen. The A321T has been flying for several years. If MIA-LAX had the command yields that we're always told it has, that plane would be on the route. It's not.

There've been widebodies rotating on the route to utilize frames that would be sitting idle otherwise, not because there was burning demand for a 3-class offering. Of course, now the official party line from a.net's Miami Chamber of Commerce is that JetBlue's 3-class Mint offering is proof of how special and premium the LAX-South Florida market is... despite the fact that we're also constantly told how "un-premium" FLL is compared to MIA. So which is it?
 
jasoncrh
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:21 pm

Those premium/ corporate customers will stay on AA regardless for a few reasons 1) they probably have a corporate account with AA, and AA will nail them for non-compliance; 2) If these people are so important and premium, they're not going to fly to FLL and drive, their time is more valuable and 3) how do you know that they all even took the 1/day or 2/day flights that had lie flat seats? Why do you even assume that? It seems like a weird assumption to me. Probably the majority of them didnt even take that flight or know it existed, and just went with whatever F class offering was open.

That being said, I still think flat beds will be back in January during NATPE time. I seriously doubt AA will let all its corporate account VIPs defect to JetBlue.[/quote]
 
tphuang
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:46 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
Those premium/ corporate customers will stay on AA regardless for a few reasons 1) they probably have a corporate account with AA, and AA will nail them for non-compliance; 2) If these people are so important and premium, they're not going to fly to FLL and drive, their time is more valuable and 3) how do you know that they all even took the 1/day or 2/day flights that had lie flat seats? Why do you even assume that? It seems like a weird assumption to me. Probably the majority of them didnt even take that flight or know it existed, and just went with whatever F class offering was open.

That being said, I still think flat beds will be back in January during NATPE time. I seriously doubt AA will let all its corporate account VIPs defect to JetBlue.

Only aa would know the numbers but there are many aa frequent flyers who have mentioned that they are flying mint now.

And if you look at how b6 is pricing it's mint routes, it's getting higher fares on fll to lax than those bos routes where it supposedly have corporate contracts despite less time in the market and fewer daily flights.
 
jasoncrh
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:30 pm

1) Dont really feel the need to talk about Boston in this as it's not really relevant. No scope here please. that said, when you look at DOT data, MIA-LAX AA gets a fare that's on average almost $100 higher than what B6 gets on LAX-FLL, and JetBlue gets a fare that's around $50-$60 higher on average BOS-LAX than it gets on FLL-LAX. So your point there really doesnt hold water.
2) At the end of the day, if it was worth AA 's while to always have these planes on LAX-MIA, they would Maybe things will change in the future, but I dont see that happening now. AA still gets a fare premium at MIA over B6 at FLL. Maybe anecdotally you hear of some AA frequent flyers going to FLL, but the results show otherwise.


tphuang wrote:
jasoncrh wrote:
Those premium/ corporate customers will stay on AA regardless for a few reasons 1) they probably have a corporate account with AA, and AA will nail them for non-compliance; 2) If these people are so important and premium, they're not going to fly to FLL and drive, their time is more valuable and 3) how do you know that they all even took the 1/day or 2/day flights that had lie flat seats? Why do you even assume that? It seems like a weird assumption to me. Probably the majority of them didnt even take that flight or know it existed, and just went with whatever F class offering was open.

That being said, I still think flat beds will be back in January during NATPE time. I seriously doubt AA will let all its corporate account VIPs defect to JetBlue.

Only aa would know the numbers but there are many aa frequent flyers who have mentioned that they are flying mint now.

And if you look at how b6 is pricing it's mint routes, it's getting higher fares on fll to lax than those bos routes where it supposedly have corporate contracts despite less time in the market and fewer daily flights.
 
tphuang
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Re: AA Drops 77W on MIA-LAX

Wed Aug 16, 2017 9:51 pm

jasoncrh wrote:
1) Dont really feel the need to talk about Boston in this as it's not really relevant. No scope here please. that said, when you look at DOT data, MIA-LAX AA gets a fare that's on average almost $100 higher than what B6 gets on LAX-FLL, and JetBlue gets a fare that's around $50-$60 higher on average BOS-LAX than it gets on FLL-LAX. So your point there really doesnt hold water.
2) At the end of the day, if it was worth AA 's while to always have these planes on LAX-MIA, they would Maybe things will change in the future, but I dont see that happening now. AA still gets a fare premium at MIA over B6 at FLL. Maybe anecdotally you hear of some AA frequent flyers going to FLL, but the results show otherwise.

I think DOT data is past data and mint only started on FLL-LAX in March and was on promo fares for a while. It's hard for all economy config to get comparable average px to ones with FC cabin. The promo fares were too low and the mint cabin was selling out 2 to 3 weeks out by July. Only in the past month or so have we really JetBlue adjust their pricing to increased demand. Based on that, I think there is actually quite a bit of premium demand.

Specially for AA with all those premium demand from LAX to South America, the CPUs on MIA-LAX have in many cases been even harder than JFK-SFO/LAX. Which is crazy when you consider the actual product they offer and the fares they are commanding. So even if MIA/LAX doesn't have as much premium demand as BOS-SFO or DCA-LAX, AA gets a good majority of that due to its strength in the corporate markets. From that sense, it also has more to loose on this route.

If they put A321T on MIA-LAX, I don't think it will do worse than JFK-SFO. This is based on the # of free upgrades and the corporate/travel agency pricing I've heard on JFK-SFO route.

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