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grbauc
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:05 pm

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:29 pm

jbs2886 wrote:
commavia wrote:
jbs2886 wrote:
You literally just picked AA hubs as indicative of why AA is better. If we took DL hubs, I'm sure the reverse would be true. I'm an AA flyer, but lets be honest, DL has AA beat in A LOT of markets.


The above is unquestionably true, but objectively, it's also true that AA and AA partners hubs do, in fact, happen to be some of the largest and most important business markets in the U.S. and globally. This is a similar phenomenon to the discussion going on about BOS - AA's overall network approach in these markets, in both of which AA is not the leading carrier, is obviously far less "flashy" and exciting than Delta. Frankly, I think that lack of "flash" obscures the competitive weapons AA can, and does, wield in these markets.

Will AA ever be larger than Delta or United in NYC? No, I think that's highly doubtful at this point - for a variety of commercial and regulatory reasons. But AA is specifically targeting NYC customers who value not just its nonstops to 60+ destinations in the U.S. and internationally, and particularly those who value schedule flexibility in key business markets like ATL, BOS, CLT, ORD, DFW, LHR, LAX, BNA, PIT, RDU, SFO, YYZ, WAS, etc. And do enough of these customers exist to sustain AA's ~300 daily departures, and its premium product offerings like select 3-class transcons and international, Flagship First Dining, etc.? Yes, I think so.


Agree completely. AA doesn't need to be the leading carrier in NYC or lead UA/DL in a number of markets. It can (and is) successful in particular markets that are important to its flyers, that's all that matters. We can go on at length (like this thread) about AA in NYC, but AA will still be a strong player in NYC, just not the largest.



And grant it they could be a or the leading carrier in NYC, if they could rewrite history I'm sure they would take it(be a leading carrier in NYC), but that boat has sailed.
Until we have a down turn and or something big that changes the board its kinda written in stone for now. And I agree its not the end of the world with the mega PHL hub close by.
 
CHI2DFW
Posts: 223
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 1:44 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:59 pm

chepos wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Any chance AA consolidates CLT and PHL into one super hub somewhere? They are only 390nm apart.


Why? They serve different purposes.


That will be the day AA and UA both close ORD and WN moves in.
 
RemoFlyer
Posts: 183
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:12 pm

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:13 am

Freshside3 wrote:
RemoFlyer wrote:
uberflieger wrote:

:checkmark:

Delta really is in a tough spot. With no other choice, JFK has to be its most important NE TATL gateway despite the many drawbacks, most importantly its own domestic LGA network. American knows all about it with its history of a NYC split operation. Questioned about JFK, AA management publicly stated it is profitable, according to their metrics the 2nd most profitable JFK operation while Deltalina needs to apply for Long Island food stamps :D

The announced enhanced JFK West Coast schedule, especially to SAN from where it offers JV nonstops to LHR & NRT, shows AA means business in NYC

:airplane:


why would a new yorker fly to SAN to catch a flight to LHR? or NRT for that matter.

To LHR, of course not. But using SAN as a stop to get to NRT not really all that different than stopping at LAX or SFO.


JAL has two direct flights to Tokyo from JFK and one from BOS and one from ORD and an AA from ORD. all are much better options NYC - Tokyo relative to SAN, SFO or LAX
 
wn676
Posts: 1759
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:35 am

Freshside3 wrote:
RemoFlyer wrote:
uberflieger wrote:

:checkmark:

Delta really is in a tough spot. With no other choice, JFK has to be its most important NE TATL gateway despite the many drawbacks, most importantly its own domestic LGA network. American knows all about it with its history of a NYC split operation. Questioned about JFK, AA management publicly stated it is profitable, according to their metrics the 2nd most profitable JFK operation while Deltalina needs to apply for Long Island food stamps :D

The announced enhanced JFK West Coast schedule, especially to SAN from where it offers JV nonstops to LHR & NRT, shows AA means business in NYC

:airplane:


why would a new yorker fly to SAN to catch a flight to LHR? or NRT for that matter.

To LHR, of course not. But using SAN as a stop to get to NRT not really all that different than stopping at LAX or SFO.


Do many people fly that far out the way when they could take a less circuitous route through BOS or ORD, or simply fly nonstop?
 
OB1504
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:19 am

Varsity1 wrote:
Any chance AA consolidates CLT and PHL into one super hub somewhere? They are only 390nm apart.


No.

The merger gave AA two things it never had: a northeast European hub (PHL) and a true southeast hub (CLT), and they could be the undisputed leader of both. Why would they throw that away?
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:51 am

ckfred wrote:

So, AA starting service to PRG and BUD seems to be a good move, especially if business activity in Romania and the Czech Republic continue to grow.


BUD is in Hungary, not Romania.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6635
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Re: AA starting service PHL-BUD/PRG move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:06 am

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
hispanola wrote:
commavia wrote:


AA flew to LHR, ORY (then CDG), BRU, and ZRH before merging with TWA. Other destinations were added and dropped after that.


I think BRU was off and on. It was off when the merger took place. ZRH I think wasn't served until after the merger.

Most TATL prior to the merger was from ORD. Over time it shifted to JFK. BRU was served from ORD consistently in the 90's and 00's, for example.


Not true. AA served ORD-ZRH well before the TWA takeover. It moved from ORD to DFW-ZRH in about June 2000.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 580
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:25 pm

Re: AA starting service PHL-BUD/PRG move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 1:49 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
hispanola wrote:

AA flew to LHR, ORY (then CDG), BRU, and ZRH before merging with TWA. Other destinations were added and dropped after that.


I think BRU was off and on. It was off when the merger took place. ZRH I think wasn't served until after the merger.

Most TATL prior to the merger was from ORD. Over time it shifted to JFK. BRU was served from ORD consistently in the 90's and 00's, for example.


Not true. AA served ORD-ZRH well before the TWA takeover. It moved from ORD to DFW-ZRH in about June 2000.


I was referring to JFK-ZRH. AA flew to ZRH since the late 1980's from ORD I believe.
 
panamair
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Re: AA starting service PHL-BUD/PRG move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:17 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
I was referring to JFK-ZRH. AA flew to ZRH since the late 1980's from ORD I believe.


AA first started serving JFK-ZRH back in 1987 (with the 762; this was also around the time they started JFK-FRA and JFK-LYS) but then suspended it in 1996. It restarted JFK-ZRH with the 763ER in October 2001, taking advantage of Swissair's troubles that year as well as Delta's suspension of JFK-ZRH post 9/11....
 
commavia
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Re: AA starting service PHL-BUD/PRG move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:21 pm

panamair wrote:
AA first started serving JFK-ZRH back in 1987 (with the 762; this was also around the time they started JFK-FRA and JFK-LYS) but then suspended it in 1996. It restarted JFK-ZRH with the 763ER in October 2001, taking advantage of Swissair's troubles that year as well as Delta's suspension of JFK-ZRH post 9/11....


In addition, AA flew ORD-ZRH up until 1 June 2000, when that flight shifted to DFW-ZRH to free up an ORD slot pair for ORD-FCO, which launched the same day. AA then later resumed ORD-ZRH for a brief period in the mid-2000s when it had its antitrust-immunized alliance with Swiss, around the same time as AA also shifted the schedule for JFK-ZRH to a later departure both eastbound and westbound to compliment Swiss' schedule on the route at the time. Once Swiss switched to Star and AA lost the feed at ZRH, DFW-ZRH ended and JFK-ZRH returned to its more "traditional" schedule (~1730 eastbound departure, ~1030 westbound departure) which has remained more or less the same for much of the last decade.
 
Varsity1
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:18 pm

OB1504 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Any chance AA consolidates CLT and PHL into one super hub somewhere? They are only 390nm apart.


No.

The merger gave AA two things it never had: a northeast European hub (PHL) and a true southeast hub (CLT), and they could be the undisputed leader of both. Why would they throw that away?


MIA is in the southeast, last time I checked. CLT and PHL are within driving distance of one another. It's nearly the same distance as JFK-PIT.
 
wn676
Posts: 1759
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:33 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
Any chance AA consolidates CLT and PHL into one super hub somewhere? They are only 390nm apart.


No.

The merger gave AA two things it never had: a northeast European hub (PHL) and a true southeast hub (CLT), and they could be the undisputed leader of both. Why would they throw that away?


MIA is in the southeast, last time I checked. CLT and PHL are within driving distance of one another. It's nearly the same distance as JFK-PIT.


Right, but MIA is never going to be a southeast hub the way ATL is. This is what people mean by a "true southeast hub." It's too far south to effectively serve any meaningful domestic flow in the region; CLT remedies this.

As far as PHL/CLT, despite the distance they are two very different hubs and serve two very distinct markets and flows. It would be pointless to try and consolidate them into one "superhub." You would lose the all the traits that have made them successful hubs up until this point.
 
ahj2000
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:46 pm

wn676 wrote:
Varsity1 wrote:
OB1504 wrote:

No.

The merger gave AA two things it never had: a northeast European hub (PHL) and a true southeast hub (CLT), and they could be the undisputed leader of both. Why would they throw that away?


MIA is in the southeast, last time I checked. CLT and PHL are within driving distance of one another. It's nearly the same distance as JFK-PIT.


Right, but MIA is never going to be a southeast hub the way ATL is. This is what people mean by a "true southeast hub." It's too far south to effectively serve any meaningful domestic flow in the region; CLT remedies this.

As far as PHL/CLT, despite the distance they are two very different hubs and serve two very distinct markets and flows. It would be pointless to try and consolidate them into one "superhub." You would lose the all the traits that have made them successful hubs up until this point.

Exactly. Each of the American hubs, perhaps Phoenix the least, all have a set purpose in the network. Charlotte connects domestic travelers from across the country and deals with traffic to the Southeast, competing against Atlanta. See united's attempt at serving the Southeast from IAD and IAH if you think Miami would cover it, except Miami is further from the major traffic flows to/from the Southeast. It would be like using Bangor to connect from Buffalo to Baltimore.
Miami, on the other hand is the most ideal location/O/D to make a hub to Latin America and The Caribbean.
 
Pengaea
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Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:12 pm

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:53 pm

Varsity1 wrote:
MIA is in the southeast, last time I checked. CLT and PHL are within driving distance of one another. It's nearly the same distance as JFK-PIT.


Yes, MIA is in the southeast (you can say it is the *most* southeast), but because of its location, you're going to have a lot of backtracking. If I want to go from AVP (Wilkes-Barre, PA) to BHM (Birmingham, AL), I'd be more than doubling the distance travelled if I transited through MIA than if I did CLT. If I want to go from GSO (Greensboro, NC) to LAX, transferring at MIA will add an extra 40% distance to my trip. Let's not forget about the wasted time, too.

CLT has a place in AA's network, which is primarily to facilitate NS transfers along the east coast. Its TATL flights are gravy. MIA is simply too far south for such transfers to work.

Sure, CLT and PHL are within driving distance of each other. It's also a 9h drive (if you don't get caught in DC traffic). Road distance between CLT and PHL is nearly the same distance as NYC and Detroit. Who wants to make that drive?

What is your point? You say AA should open a super hub halfway between CLT and PHL. Where would that go? IAD? And compete with UA?

CLT and PHL are important parts of AA's network. They ain't goin' anywhere.
 
Flighty
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:56 pm

I will just repeat what I have been sharing here for years, that CLT and PHL are both excellent businesses, DCA is excellent, and New York is a flimsy business.. It's just not that important. AA does not "wish it were the leader of New York;" their actions suggest the opposite. You wouldn't put a shoe factory in New York. There is no reason to put a hub there either. It is a high cost, high delay, often low yielding city due to the high service levels from all carriers, foreign and domestic.
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 580
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Re: AA starting service PHL-BUD/PRG move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri Aug 25, 2017 3:59 pm

panamair wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
I was referring to JFK-ZRH. AA flew to ZRH since the late 1980's from ORD I believe.


AA first started serving JFK-ZRH back in 1987 (with the 762; this was also around the time they started JFK-FRA and JFK-LYS) but then suspended it in 1996. It restarted JFK-ZRH with the 763ER in October 2001, taking advantage of Swissair's troubles that year as well as Delta's suspension of JFK-ZRH post 9/11....


Wow I had forgotten that. AA had some curious JFK-European routes in the late 80's that competed with PA or TW at various times.
 
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hispanola
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Re: AA starting service PHL-BUD/PRG move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:48 pm

MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:


I was referring to JFK-ZRH. AA flew to ZRH since the late 1980's from ORD I believe.


That's grand, but AA still flew JFK-ZRH during the 90s. It's possible they dropped it right before the merger with TWA, but they flew that route along with BRU, MAN, LHR, and ORY out of JFK. I've even found evidence of it online: http://www.departedflights.com/JFKI96intro.html
 
MIAFLLPBIFlyer
Posts: 580
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Re: AA starting service PHL-BUD/PRG move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:10 pm

hispanola wrote:
MIAFLLPBIFlyer wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

I was referring to JFK-ZRH. AA flew to ZRH since the late 1980's from ORD I believe.


That's grand, but AA still flew JFK-ZRH during the 90s. It's possible they dropped it right before the merger with TWA, but they flew that route along with BRU, MAN, LHR, and ORY out of JFK. I've even found evidence of it online: http://www.departedflights.com/JFKI96intro.html


I'm not disputing that. I've got the old Timetables and yes they flew that route off and on. Not necessarily seasonally (Manchester was similar, but consistently flown from ORD). Sorry for spreading misinformation. I'll try not to do it again.
 
atl100million
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 1:28 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:21 pm

Flighty wrote:
I will just repeat what I have been sharing here for years, that CLT and PHL are both excellent businesses, DCA is excellent, and New York is a flimsy business.. It's just not that important. AA does not "wish it were the leader of New York;" their actions suggest the opposite. You wouldn't put a shoe factory in New York. There is no reason to put a hub there either. It is a high cost, high delay, often low yielding city due to the high service levels from all carriers, foreign and domestic.

You are free to argue that as AA pulls down flights but other carriers see great value in having a large operation.

Not surprisingly, the same could be said about markets like MIA and LAX but AA seems to be interested in walking away from those markets.

And most significantly, no one was saying that years ago..... it's funny that "it isn't a market worth going after" comes out as AA pulls out of NYC markets.

AA is downsizing at JFK because it shrank too much, has a viable European hub at Philadelphia, but is walking away from larger and larger portions of the NYC to Europe local market which is the largest in the US. Other carriers who hub in NYC still have access to the NYC local market AS WELL AS the flow traffic from other parts of the US.
 
ckfred
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Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:06 am

9w748capt wrote:
ckfred wrote:

So, AA starting service to PRG and BUD seems to be a good move, especially if business activity in Romania and the Czech Republic continue to grow.


BUD is in Hungary, not Romania.


My mistake. I had been reading an article about Romania and it must have been stuck in my head. Bucharest is the capital of Romania. I did very well in junior geography. I don't know why I got that wrong.
 
Sydscott
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:29 am

Flighty wrote:
I will just repeat what I have been sharing here for years, that CLT and PHL are both excellent businesses, DCA is excellent, and New York is a flimsy business.. It's just not that important. AA does not "wish it were the leader of New York;" their actions suggest the opposite. You wouldn't put a shoe factory in New York. There is no reason to put a hub there either. It is a high cost, high delay, often low yielding city due to the high service levels from all carriers, foreign and domestic.


At the end of the day AA will deploy capacity where they believe, commercially, they have the best opportunity to make money. In the Northeast of the US for AA those places are PHL and DCA where they have hubs. Yes NYC is an important market and yes AA will continue to have a presence in connecting its key business markets to NYC to maintain relevance with its Corporate base. But at the end of the day if you don't have a position of advantage and you don't have the opportunity to build one then the best AA can do is to optimise the operation for those that actually use it while building on strength elsewhere. That's just good business.
 
lowfareair
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:48 am

With summer schedules getting finalized, I've made some tweaks to this. Aer Lingus has added a daily 752 and DL removed a daily 752, FI downsized slightly and AA reduced their seat count in the A332 to 247 with the introduction of Premium Economy, which removed over 1,000 seats per week from the market. If it wasn't for the PE introduction, seat count would have increased 12.5%.

OslPhlWasChi wrote:
(Note that this is a static look in peak summer. This does not account for elongated seasons for summer routes.)

Weekly Seats PHL-Europe

Destination S17 S18 Change % Change Notes
London 14,350 13,294 (1,056) -7.4% Daily DL757 removed; add BA 789 3x
Manchester 3,612 3,458 (154) -4.3% AA decreasing A332 seat count to 247 with PE
Glasgow 2,464 2,464 0 0.0% LUS752 switch to LAA752 (no seat change)
Dublin 3,612 5,936 2,324 64.3% Aer Lingus adding daily 752, AA decreasing A332 seat count to 247 with PE
Shannon 2,464 2,464 0 0.0% LUS752 switch to LAA752 (no seat change)
Frankfurt 7,924 7,770 (154) -1.9% LH switch from CityLine 343 to Main Line 343 reverted; AA decreasing A332 seat count to 247 with PE
Munich 3,612 3,458 (154) -4.3% AA decreasing A332 seat count to 247 with PE
Paris 5,964 3,458 (2,506) -42.0% DL removing 752 from route, AA decreasing A332 seat count to 247 with PE
Rome 4,074 4,074 0 0.0%
Venice 4,074 4,074 0 0.0%
Madrid 3,612 3,458 (154) -4.3% AA decreasing A332 seat count to 247 with PE
Barcelona 3,612 3,458 (154) -4.3% AA decreasing A332 seat count to 247 with PE
Amsterdam 2,464 2,926 462 18.8% Upgauge LUS752 to 763
Zurich 2,926 2,926 N/A New AA763 daily
Prague 2,926 2,926 N/A New AA763 daily
Budapest 2,926 2,926 N/A New AA763 daily
Lisbon 2,464 2,926 462 18.8% Upgauge LUS752 to 763
Athens 4,074 4,074 0 0.0%
Reykjavik 1,368 1,280 (88) -6.4% Slight decrease from downgauge to MAX8 from 752
TOTAL 69,744 77,350 7,606 10.9%

For reference, weekly seats PHL-Europe were at about 75,000 in S14 & S15 when TA flying was at its peak for PHL (Add about 3600 seats if you want for TLV.)
Just about anyway you look it, PHL-Europe seat capacity looks like it will be at an all-time high in S18 for PHL.
 
GSPSPOT
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:05 am

Poor AA at JFK. A beautiful facility languishing and under-used. When was the last time there was an increase in routes or departures?
 
nomorerjs
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Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:24 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:05 am

I know it’s early but ORD-PRG seasonal in S19 is “under consideration.”

Would be great!
 
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JakubH
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Tue May 08, 2018 10:30 pm

nomorerjs wrote:
I know it’s early but ORD-PRG seasonal in S19 is “under consideration.”

Would be great!

Any updates on ORD-PRG?

And what would make AA go year-round on either ORD-PRG or PHL-PRG? Looking at seat charts, flights to/from PRG seem to be nearly full in the coming weeks.
 
usflyer msp
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Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Wed May 09, 2018 1:33 am

From what I understand, the bookings on PHL-PRG are great but PHL-BUD is not doing so hot...
 
Sydscott
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Wed May 09, 2018 2:30 am

GSPSPOT wrote:
Poor AA at JFK. A beautiful facility languishing and under-used. When was the last time there was an increase in routes or departures?


Last time there was an increase in utilisation of AA's facility was when they moved CX and QF so added 5 more flights.
 
flyfresno
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Wed May 09, 2018 2:36 am

usflyer msp wrote:
From what I understand, the bookings on PHL-PRG are great but PHL-BUD is not doing so hot...


Which is sad, considering how amazing Budapest is and how much of a disappointment Prague is. Although, there’s obviously more to all this than tourism...
 
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chepos
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Wed May 09, 2018 3:13 am

usflyer msp wrote:
From what I understand, the bookings on PHL-PRG are great but PHL-BUD is not doing so hot...


Well judging on loads alone, BUD has been going busier than PRG this week. I’m on BUD at the end of May so I’ve been looking at loads, BUD is busier those days as well. I’m excited to go to BUD, only heard good things.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Wed May 09, 2018 4:54 am

flyfresno wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
From what I understand, the bookings on PHL-PRG are great but PHL-BUD is not doing so hot...


Which is sad, considering how amazing Budapest is and how much of a disappointment Prague is. Although, there’s obviously more to all this than tourism...


Why would you say PRG is a disappointment? I’m well traveled and it was one of the most amazing places I’ve been. Of course I got off the beaten path their too.
 
nmdrdh787
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Wed May 09, 2018 9:01 pm

JakubH wrote:
nomorerjs wrote:
I know it’s early but ORD-PRG seasonal in S19 is “under consideration.”

Would be great!

Any updates on ORD-PRG?

And what would make AA go year-round on either ORD-PRG or PHL-PRG? Looking at seat charts, flights to/from PRG seem to be nearly full in the coming weeks.


Is this from an internal source? Bit surprised nobody is considering ATH for seasona.
 
oc2dc
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Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Wed May 09, 2018 11:20 pm

BoeingGuy wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
usflyer msp wrote:
From what I understand, the bookings on PHL-PRG are great but PHL-BUD is not doing so hot...


Which is sad, considering how amazing Budapest is and how much of a disappointment Prague is. Although, there’s obviously more to all this than tourism...


Why would you say PRG is a disappointment? I’m well traveled and it was one of the most amazing places I’ve been. Of course I got off the beaten path their too.


Flyfresno must have spent 10 minutes in the WC while traveling through PRG to get to Poland and didn't experience the actual city itself. As someone who has thoroughly traveled Europe, I can say Prague is one of the top cities I have been to in Europe. It can be sketchy at night, but is for the most part a great place.

AA will do well as PRG is the next Rome, everyone is going. It will be easy to fill the seats, hopefully they can command a good price.
 
flyfresno
Posts: 1382
Joined: Tue May 02, 2006 6:18 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 12:06 am

oc2dc wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
flyfresno wrote:

Which is sad, considering how amazing Budapest is and how much of a disappointment Prague is. Although, there’s obviously more to all this than tourism...


Why would you say PRG is a disappointment? I’m well traveled and it was one of the most amazing places I’ve been. Of course I got off the beaten path their too.


Flyfresno must have spent 10 minutes in the WC while traveling through PRG to get to Poland and didn't experience the actual city itself. As someone who has thoroughly traveled Europe, I can say Prague is one of the top cities I have been to in Europe. It can be sketchy at night, but is for the most part a great place.

AA will do well as PRG is the next Rome, everyone is going. It will be easy to fill the seats, hopefully they can command a good price.


These are just a few of the reasons.

1) It’s way too touristy. Budapest has touristy areas, but they are the exception and easy to get away from. If you want to see any major sights or museums in Prague, you’ll be inundated with touts, glass shops, and crowds.
2) The food in Prague (and the whole Czech Republic) is some of the blandest and least varied in all of Europe. It was a struggle to find anything that wasn’t meat and potatoes covered in gravy. Finding veggies that weren’t sauerkraut was also a huge pain.
3) The architecture and sights are ok, but pale in comparison to BUD (and most other big European cities). Yes, there’s a lot of history there, and I can appreciate that, but it’s just not that pretty of a city.
4) Beer was exceedingly cheap and mostly good, but I found other drinks, both alcoholic and not, to be pretty mediocre.

As a background, I’ve been to 54 foreign countries including quite a few larger cities in Europe (as a side note, I believe what you say about Prague becoming Rome, because I’m not crazy about Rome either, although it’s better than Prague). With that, Prague is definitely in the bottom few places I’ve ever been to. And I’m Czech, so it’s not easy to say that...
 
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JakubH
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Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 4:34 pm

flyfresno wrote:
oc2dc wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Why would you say PRG is a disappointment? I’m well traveled and it was one of the most amazing places I’ve been. Of course I got off the beaten path their too.


Flyfresno must have spent 10 minutes in the WC while traveling through PRG to get to Poland and didn't experience the actual city itself. As someone who has thoroughly traveled Europe, I can say Prague is one of the top cities I have been to in Europe. It can be sketchy at night, but is for the most part a great place.

AA will do well as PRG is the next Rome, everyone is going. It will be easy to fill the seats, hopefully they can command a good price.


These are just a few of the reasons.
...

Maybe best to stick to an aviation discussion and keep discussions on travel preferences for another forum.

On the aviation front, I am glad to hear PRG is doing well. Fingers crossed ORD-PRG is added and at least one of these becomes year-round. Maybe even on a 787? ;)

P. S. For anyone visiting Prague, the 'Honest Guide' on YouTube is a good source of recommendations on how to best enjoy the city and avoid any scams (such as buying the overpriced but popular street-food trdelnik, which is not even a common Czech dessert).
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: AA starting service PHL-BUD/PRG move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 5:49 pm

Antarius wrote:
The cabins just got redone.. the J NGBC angle flat seats were replaced with all aisle Thomson seats. Cabin is not bad in J, although there is no IFE in the entire aircraft which I thought was a poor choice. Not sure what they plan on doing.


J has no IFE??
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 5:52 pm

Does DL still fly JFK-BUD and JFK-PRG seasonally?
 
Antarius
Posts: 3436
Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Re: AA starting service PHL-BUD/PRG move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 5:55 pm

questions wrote:
Antarius wrote:
The cabins just got redone.. the J NGBC angle flat seats were replaced with all aisle Thomson seats. Cabin is not bad in J, although there is no IFE in the entire aircraft which I thought was a poor choice. Not sure what they plan on doing.


J has no IFE??


You are handed a tablet that has movies and Bose headsets. The tablet mounts into the area usually used for screens, so it is almost like built in IFE.

Overall the 763s are pretty forgettable experiences. Look forward to the 787s replacing them once and for all
 
User avatar
chepos
Posts: 7279
Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 5:58 pm

questions wrote:
Does DL still fly JFK-BUD and JFK-PRG seasonally?


DL only operates JFK PRG (seasonally), BUD was dropped I think back in 07.
 
User avatar
American 767
Posts: 4569
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:27 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 7:49 pm

chepos wrote:
questions wrote:
Does DL still fly JFK-BUD and JFK-PRG seasonally?


DL only operates JFK PRG (seasonally), BUD was dropped I think back in 07.


It surprises me that they only fly JFK-PRG seasonal because they are in the same alliance as OK, passengers who fly DL can connect in PRG onward to anywhere in Europe where OK flies. DL and OK do more than codesharing with each other, DL flyers can get FF points on OK and vice versa. OK doesn't fly to JFK anymore, so I would expect DL to fly JFK-PRG all year round.

AA doesn't fly JFK-PRG, that doesn't surprise me because they are not in Sky Team and they are downsizing JFK in favor of developing PHL as a TATLgateway.
 
9w748capt
Posts: 1841
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:27 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 8:18 pm

flyfresno wrote:
oc2dc wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:

Why would you say PRG is a disappointment? I’m well traveled and it was one of the most amazing places I’ve been. Of course I got off the beaten path their too.


Flyfresno must have spent 10 minutes in the WC while traveling through PRG to get to Poland and didn't experience the actual city itself. As someone who has thoroughly traveled Europe, I can say Prague is one of the top cities I have been to in Europe. It can be sketchy at night, but is for the most part a great place.

AA will do well as PRG is the next Rome, everyone is going. It will be easy to fill the seats, hopefully they can command a good price.


These are just a few of the reasons.

1) It’s way too touristy. Budapest has touristy areas, but they are the exception and easy to get away from. If you want to see any major sights or museums in Prague, you’ll be inundated with touts, glass shops, and crowds.
2) The food in Prague (and the whole Czech Republic) is some of the blandest and least varied in all of Europe. It was a struggle to find anything that wasn’t meat and potatoes covered in gravy. Finding veggies that weren’t sauerkraut was also a huge pain.
3) The architecture and sights are ok, but pale in comparison to BUD (and most other big European cities). Yes, there’s a lot of history there, and I can appreciate that, but it’s just not that pretty of a city.
4) Beer was exceedingly cheap and mostly good, but I found other drinks, both alcoholic and not, to be pretty mediocre.

As a background, I’ve been to 54 foreign countries including quite a few larger cities in Europe (as a side note, I believe what you say about Prague becoming Rome, because I’m not crazy about Rome either, although it’s better than Prague). With that, Prague is definitely in the bottom few places I’ve ever been to. And I’m Czech, so it’s not easy to say that...


You must have visited a different city than Prague IMO.

Yes it's touristy - which city in Europe isn't, especially in high season?

We found multiple excellent restaurants that served a variety of food. Even several vegetarian restaurants.

Not surprised that the beer was good (and cheap) and other drinks weren't - Prague and the Czech Republic is a beer-drinking place, after all.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - it was every bit as beautiful as we imagined. Up there with Florence IMO. Having said that we haven't made it to Budapest yet. Next time!
 
Swadian
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 9:35 pm

nmdrdh787 wrote:
JakubH wrote:
nomorerjs wrote:
I know it’s early but ORD-PRG seasonal in S19 is “under consideration.”

Would be great!

Any updates on ORD-PRG?

And what would make AA go year-round on either ORD-PRG or PHL-PRG? Looking at seat charts, flights to/from PRG seem to be nearly full in the coming weeks.


Is this from an internal source? Bit surprised nobody is considering ATH for seasona.


You mean ORD-ATH? AA already flies PHL-ATH seasonal.

JakubH wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
oc2dc wrote:

Flyfresno must have spent 10 minutes in the WC while traveling through PRG to get to Poland and didn't experience the actual city itself. As someone who has thoroughly traveled Europe, I can say Prague is one of the top cities I have been to in Europe. It can be sketchy at night, but is for the most part a great place.

AA will do well as PRG is the next Rome, everyone is going. It will be easy to fill the seats, hopefully they can command a good price.


These are just a few of the reasons.
...

Maybe best to stick to an aviation discussion and keep discussions on travel preferences for another forum.

On the aviation front, I am glad to hear PRG is doing well. Fingers crossed ORD-PRG is added and at least one of these becomes year-round. Maybe even on a 787? ;)

P. S. For anyone visiting Prague, the 'Honest Guide' on YouTube is a good source of recommendations on how to best enjoy the city and avoid any scams (such as buying the overpriced but popular street-food trdelnik, which is not even a common Czech dessert).


No, PRG is NOT going to go year-round when ORD-CDG and ORD-MAN aren't even going year-round. Most AA routes to Europe are seasonal-only. There's plenty of better routes to go year-round than PRG or BUD.

Yes, a 788 could be deployed because it is the smallest AA aircraft capable of reaching PRG or BUD after the 763 is retired. At that point AA will have no better aircraft than a 788 to deploy.
 
questions
Posts: 2337
Joined: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:51 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 11:42 pm

chepos wrote:
questions wrote:
Does DL still fly JFK-BUD and JFK-PRG seasonally?


DL only operates JFK PRG (seasonally), BUD was dropped I think back in 07.


Why would AA have a better chance PHL-BUD than DL JFK-BUD?
 
WingsOfLove
Posts: 223
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:54 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Thu May 10, 2018 11:53 pm

Swadian wrote:
No, PRG is NOT going to go year-round


Agreed.

While I wouldn't put any money on ORD-PRG quite yet, if S18 is any indication AA may just have a few more surprises in store for S19.

Who would have predicted PHL-PRG? United doesn't fly there and Delta is seasonal despite Czech connections. AA has the most daily seats to VCE this summer and is the only US3 at BUD. Quite impressive compared to recent history.

My bet for S19 is ORD-ATH :smile:
 
User avatar
JakubH
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Fri May 11, 2018 12:01 am

WingsOfLove wrote:
Swadian wrote:
No, PRG is NOT going to go year-round


Agreed.

While I wouldn't put any money on ORD-PRG quite yet, if S18 is any indication AA may just have a few more surprises in store for S19.

Who would have predicted PHL-PRG? United doesn't fly there and Delta is seasonal despite Czech connections. AA has the most daily seats to VCE this summer and is the only US3 at BUD. Quite impressive compared to recent history.

My bet for S19 is ORD-ATH :smile:

The difference between Prague and CDG or MAN, though, is the lack of another Transatlantic service year-round from/to PRG. Given that Czech Airlines are still a short-haul carrier for the most part, AA could easily fill this gap on the market, even if there is limited connectivity on oneworld carriers from there. Hence my cautious optimism: if the traffic this summer is solid, I would not be surprised by new routes/extended service out of PRG.
 
Swadian
Posts: 562
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2016 4:56 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Sun May 13, 2018 3:53 pm

JakubH wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:
Swadian wrote:
No, PRG is NOT going to go year-round


Agreed.

While I wouldn't put any money on ORD-PRG quite yet, if S18 is any indication AA may just have a few more surprises in store for S19.

Who would have predicted PHL-PRG? United doesn't fly there and Delta is seasonal despite Czech connections. AA has the most daily seats to VCE this summer and is the only US3 at BUD. Quite impressive compared to recent history.

My bet for S19 is ORD-ATH :smile:

The difference between Prague and CDG or MAN, though, is the lack of another Transatlantic service year-round from/to PRG. Given that Czech Airlines are still a short-haul carrier for the most part, AA could easily fill this gap on the market, even if there is limited connectivity on oneworld carriers from there. Hence my cautious optimism: if the traffic this summer is solid, I would not be surprised by new routes/extended service out of PRG.


While ORD-PRG seasonal is a possibility, I do not believe year-round is feasible for any PRG routes at this time due to AA being busy replacing all of the 763s and there are better missions for the 788. I do believe the 788 or A332 will go to PRG on a seasonal basis and also that seasonal ORD-ATH, DFW-VCE, or JFK-DME (or even year-round MIA-JNB, LAX-SIN, or DFW-KIX) will happen before any of these go round.

Possibly you are biased toward PRG due to being "based" there per your signature and may be myopically missing the grand scheme of things.
 
User avatar
JakubH
Posts: 168
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Sun May 13, 2018 4:29 pm

Swadian wrote:
JakubH wrote:
WingsOfLove wrote:

Agreed.

While I wouldn't put any money on ORD-PRG quite yet, if S18 is any indication AA may just have a few more surprises in store for S19.

Who would have predicted PHL-PRG? United doesn't fly there and Delta is seasonal despite Czech connections. AA has the most daily seats to VCE this summer and is the only US3 at BUD. Quite impressive compared to recent history.

My bet for S19 is ORD-ATH :smile:

The difference between Prague and CDG or MAN, though, is the lack of another Transatlantic service year-round from/to PRG. Given that Czech Airlines are still a short-haul carrier for the most part, AA could easily fill this gap on the market, even if there is limited connectivity on oneworld carriers from there. Hence my cautious optimism: if the traffic this summer is solid, I would not be surprised by new routes/extended service out of PRG.


While ORD-PRG seasonal is a possibility, I do not believe year-round is feasible for any PRG routes at this time due to AA being busy replacing all of the 763s and there are better missions for the 788. I do believe the 788 or A332 will go to PRG on a seasonal basis and also that seasonal ORD-ATH, DFW-VCE, or JFK-DME (or even year-round MIA-JNB, LAX-SIN, or DFW-KIX) will happen before any of these go round.

Possibly you are biased toward PRG due to being "based" there per your signature and may be myopically missing the grand scheme of things.

Sure thing. But being hopeful is not a bad thing - I am sure many of us have travel preferences we would like to see translate into new routes.

My point is that PRG's connectivity with North America has a lot of room to grow - of course, we will have to see how much this will be a priority for any of the US carriers or another one like Norwegian.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4261
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Mon May 14, 2018 11:14 am

Keep in mind that when the latest new TA services of the '17 and '18 summer seasons were planned, oil was 25-50% cheaper than it is now.
 
florens
Posts: 118
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:15 pm

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Mon May 14, 2018 11:25 am

AA really needs to improve and invest in their PHL lounges as the current offering is not adequate for longhaul J customers who want to dine before the short transatlantic flights.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4261
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Mon May 14, 2018 11:41 am

florens wrote:
AA really needs to improve and invest in their PHL lounges as the current offering is not adequate for longhaul J customers who want to dine before the short transatlantic flights.

They are dragging their feet to develop a Flagship lounge at PHL, but hopefully learning from UA's fiasco at EWR while they build their Polaris lounge.
 
jasoncrh
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:29 pm

Re: AA Starting PHL-BUD/PRG; ORD-VCE; Move JFK-ZRH to PHL

Mon May 14, 2018 1:11 pm

I've been to Prague 5 times in the past 3 years and can definitely say with a high degree of certainty that you're off the mark. The Prague food scene is varied and diverse. Yes, near the Charles Bridge and right on either side of it it it's quite touristy with a lot of bland restaurants. But literally go a metro stop or two away and it's a whole other world. Still gorgeous, with tons of diverse restaurants, some really good ones that highlight some amazing Czech foods, as well as international foods as well. I have been blown away by the diversity of it. Sounds to me like you just havent explored much in Prague if this is your impression, unfortunately.

That said, Prague is still a small city, and I'd be surprised if it could sustain year round service to North America. Never say never, but at the very least flights in January and February would probably be pretty sparse with passengers.

9w748capt wrote:
flyfresno wrote:
oc2dc wrote:

Flyfresno must have spent 10 minutes in the WC while traveling through PRG to get to Poland and didn't experience the actual city itself. As someone who has thoroughly traveled Europe, I can say Prague is one of the top cities I have been to in Europe. It can be sketchy at night, but is for the most part a great place.

AA will do well as PRG is the next Rome, everyone is going. It will be easy to fill the seats, hopefully they can command a good price.


These are just a few of the reasons.

1) It’s way too touristy. Budapest has touristy areas, but they are the exception and easy to get away from. If you want to see any major sights or museums in Prague, you’ll be inundated with touts, glass shops, and crowds.
2) The food in Prague (and the whole Czech Republic) is some of the blandest and least varied in all of Europe. It was a struggle to find anything that wasn’t meat and potatoes covered in gravy. Finding veggies that weren’t sauerkraut was also a huge pain.
3) The architecture and sights are ok, but pale in comparison to BUD (and most other big European cities). Yes, there’s a lot of history there, and I can appreciate that, but it’s just not that pretty of a city.
4) Beer was exceedingly cheap and mostly good, but I found other drinks, both alcoholic and not, to be pretty mediocre.

As a background, I’ve been to 54 foreign countries including quite a few larger cities in Europe (as a side note, I believe what you say about Prague becoming Rome, because I’m not crazy about Rome either, although it’s better than Prague). With that, Prague is definitely in the bottom few places I’ve ever been to. And I’m Czech, so it’s not easy to say that...


You must have visited a different city than Prague IMO.

Yes it's touristy - which city in Europe isn't, especially in high season?

We found multiple excellent restaurants that served a variety of food. Even several vegetarian restaurants.

Not surprised that the beer was good (and cheap) and other drinks weren't - Prague and the Czech Republic is a beer-drinking place, after all.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder - it was every bit as beautiful as we imagined. Up there with Florence IMO. Having said that we haven't made it to Budapest yet. Next time!
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