ASFlyer
Posts: 1643
Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 1:25 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:40 pm

burnsie28 wrote:
janders wrote:
Frequent flyer elite program ends March 1st.

Image

https://www.suncountry.com/Explore/Our- ... ELITE.html

Makes sense. Why give away so many perks which serve as the core of ancillary earnings.


Well it's a good way to not keep people flying you... If I can get about the same fare on another carrier with perks for me continually flying them, why would I flew Sun Country? The people that are ELITE are more likely those that use Sun Country for business as well.


I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that I think Sun Country probably doesn’t have a large number of business travelers anyway, given their limited route structure and very modest schedule. Also, if you look at a good number of destinations they serve, they are largely tourist driven... with a couple exceptions. I’m also going to point to Spirit, Allegiant and Frontier with respect to the money they’re pulling in for their investors as evidence that a robust frequent flyer program, or ANY frequent flyer program, is not a significant consideration for the people that fly them. They want cheap fares. That’s it.
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1533
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:58 pm

Don't even know why they're still trying. Their route network is a complete joke unless you're out of MSP. What loyal fliers they had will now ditch them with their new ULCC system, they might as well either move solely to charter operations or sell off to AS/WN/G4.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
stlgph
Posts: 10970
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:05 pm

Yeah, switching to an ULCC totally failed for Frontier and Spirit.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1533
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:06 pm

stlgph wrote:
Yeah, switching to an ULCC totally failed for Frontier and Spirit.


You really don't get it. F9, NK, and even G4 are completely different from SY. F9, NK, and G4 are all poised to grow and have pretty impressive networks. SY has a god awful route network and they aren't even planning on growing much either. They will be failing, not really due to the ULCC style but because of the company as a whole.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
NWADTWE16
Posts: 646
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:12 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:52 pm

I agree, this is likely to be a failure for SY, its extremely sad, and I am not sure why they took such a risk. I always felt they had a great niche in their "home" MSP and this has to be alienating a good portion of their base.
I haven't been everywhere, but it's on my list!
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3096
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:55 pm

stlgph wrote:
Yeah, switching to an ULCC totally failed for Frontier and Spirit.


IMO, the difference is the brand name strength. Frontier, Spirit and to some extent G4 are known brands in the ULCC. Sun Country outside of its MSP region is not well known. The new investor owners must have a lot patience.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 9377
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:07 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Yeah, switching to an ULCC totally failed for Frontier and Spirit.


You really don't get it. F9, NK, and even G4 are completely different from SY. F9, NK, and G4 are all poised to grow and have pretty impressive networks. SY has a god awful route network and they aren't even planning on growing much either. They will be failing, not really due to the ULCC style but because of the company as a whole.

They have ambitions to grow and are changing their strategy. In a few years (if they survive) we will be looking at a very different airline. Remember that pre-ULCC F9 was an airline flying almost exclusively out of DEN, with several failed attempts at hubs elsewhere (e.g., LAX). Look at the airline and it's route network now.

I suspect that SY will not be as MSP focused as they have been in the past.

william wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Yeah, switching to an ULCC totally failed for Frontier and Spirit.


IMO, the difference is the brand name strength. Frontier, Spirit and to some extent G4 are known brands in the ULCC. Sun Country outside of its MSP region is not well known. The new investor owners must have a lot patience.

F9 has only been a ULCC for ~3-4 years now. We are just now getting to the point that people are no longer getting on an Frontier plane and realizing then that the service is at ULCC level and not its previous B6-like experience.
 
michman
Posts: 901
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:51 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:21 pm

NK wasn't always an ULCC either. They were initially similar to Sun Country with a primary focus at DTW, later shifted to FLL.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10970
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:28 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Yeah, switching to an ULCC totally failed for Frontier and Spirit.


You really don't get it. F9, NK, and even G4 are completely different from SY. F9, NK, and G4 are all poised to grow and have pretty impressive networks. SY has a god awful route network and they aren't even planning on growing much either. They will be failing, not really due to the ULCC style but because of the company as a whole.


I don't get it? Get real. Your reply posting shows you have absolute ZERO clue what you are even trying to post about.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
Indy
Posts: 4843
Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 1:37 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:29 pm

I don't know the Sun Country brand so I am not speaking about them specifically, but when you take a brand with quality service and you do something to it like switch to the ULCC model, you diminish the value and reputation of the brand. You will lose many customers who are unhappy with the direction the company is taking. The brand will never be the same but the company will develop a new customer base. I cannot imagine any company going from full service to ULCC would expect to maintain their existing customer base. That would be a failure in thinking. But they will get a customer that is purely price conscious. They aren't a loyal customer base but they are a customer base none the less.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
User avatar
Super80Fan
Posts: 1533
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:14 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Tue Jan 16, 2018 9:49 pm

stlgph wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Yeah, switching to an ULCC totally failed for Frontier and Spirit.


You really don't get it. F9, NK, and even G4 are completely different from SY. F9, NK, and G4 are all poised to grow and have pretty impressive networks. SY has a god awful route network and they aren't even planning on growing much either. They will be failing, not really due to the ULCC style but because of the company as a whole.


I don't get it? Get real. Your reply posting shows you have absolute ZERO clue what you are even trying to post about.


Good luck with your SY ownership, you're going to need it. If you think SY is equal to NK and F9 you seriously need help.
RIP McDonnell Douglas
RIP US Airways
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:30 pm

With transformation to a ULCC and the product unbundling makes really no sense to offer freebie perks like free checked bags, seat selection, upgrades, priority boarding when these can be key components of ancillary revenue on top of low base fares.

People need to accept that yesterdays SY is not the future SY, same manner F9 transformed into a ULCC.
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
User avatar
jnev3289
Posts: 636
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:45 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:38 pm

janders wrote:
With transformation to a ULCC and the product unbundling makes really no sense to offer freebie perks like free checked bags, seat selection, upgrades, priority boarding when these can be key components of ancillary revenue on top of low base fares.

People need to accept that yesterdays SY is not the future SY, same manner F9 transformed into a ULCC.

Don't underestimate just how important Spirit's $9 Fare Club is to them. Sun Country would be smart to roll something like that out
 
stlgph
Posts: 10970
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:53 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:

You really don't get it. F9, NK, and even G4 are completely different from SY. F9, NK, and G4 are all poised to grow and have pretty impressive networks. SY has a god awful route network and they aren't even planning on growing much either. They will be failing, not really due to the ULCC style but because of the company as a whole.


I don't get it? Get real. Your reply posting shows you have absolute ZERO clue what you are even trying to post about.


Good luck with your SY ownership, you're going to need it. If you think SY is equal to NK and F9 you seriously need help.


I've been following Frontier, Spirit, and Allegiant a lot longer than you have. I also bought into Spirit at $12 a share and Allegiant at $18 a share. How are your shares doing?

So yeah, I seriously need help at observing the metrics here.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4559
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:13 pm

Super80Fan wrote:
stlgph wrote:
Super80Fan wrote:

You really don't get it. F9, NK, and even G4 are completely different from SY. F9, NK, and G4 are all poised to grow and have pretty impressive networks. SY has a god awful route network and they aren't even planning on growing much either. They will be failing, not really due to the ULCC style but because of the company as a whole.


I don't get it? Get real. Your reply posting shows you have absolute ZERO clue what you are even trying to post about.


Good luck with your SY ownership, you're going to need it. If you think SY is equal to NK and F9 you seriously need help.


SY's transition to a ULCC is following a very similar path that NK, F9, and G4 all took to get started. They were all small carriers that were very regional and niche focused. They didn't have nationwide brand recognition until well into their ULCC transformations. They may not be equal today, but that's not a relevant barometer at this early stage. Let's see where SY is in 5 years, provided they make it through their transition.
 
Elementalism
Posts: 425
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Mon Feb 19, 2018 3:20 am

I just got to experience the new seating arrangement on SY 737-800 coming back from PHX last week. I dont see how this is going to work long term for SY unless they drop their prices to something like Spirit. Their prices are close to Deltas but with the most ridiculous seating I have ever seen. I'm 5' 10" and could barely squeeze my length 30 legs into my seat. My knees were about an inch from the back of the seat in front of me. And the tray table landed 3 inches into the arm rest. And was resting on it. How is somebody taller going to do it? A guy who was probably 6'2 to 6'3" asked and was allowed to seat in row 4 because of his leg situation. Which is where economy and first class meet. Thus more leg room. With SYs pricing I won't be back. I can fly Delta for nearly the same price once adding in bag fees and have actual leg room.
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:04 am

Passedv1 wrote:
TWA772LR wrote:
Calling it now: merger (buy out) with (by) Southwest within the next 10 years.


I think SY is too small to be bought out. Is MSP gate constrained. I think that might be the only thing worth having that justifies the headache of a merger.


I believe I've seen claims that WN can't expand their offerings at MSP due to gate constraints (I don't know if that's true or not), but neither WN or SY have a lot of room to work with at Humphrey Terminal (T2). That said, some of SY's B738s are leased from Transavia (HV) and vice versa during each airline's respective slow season (ie. HV leases jets to SY during the winter; SY leases jets to HV during the summer). I'm not sure that SY would be worth acquiring by WN or any other similar airline (ie. B6, G4, F9, NK, etc.).
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
ctrabs0114
Posts: 889
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:23 am

cschleic wrote:
One point to remember about Southwest...when they enter a market, they often cause overall fares to drop. Sure, they may not be cheaper than the other majors because...the other majors have lowered their prices to match Southwest. The point is, fares might be higher if Southwest weren't in a market. Now, are they sometimes more expensive than others? Sure, that happens. And people probably have been conditioned a bit. But they have a different route model as well that may work out better for some customers.


At some airports, such as PIT, the timing of WN's flights, not to mention the direct service to certain destinations (DAL, MDW, LAX, etc.) is a significant selling point. For example, when I fly to Chicago, the biggest reason I prefer WN to MDW over AA/UA to ORD is that MDW is closer to the Chicago Loop than ORD.

Saying that passengers are deluding themselves because of free bags, when NK or F9 with their fees end up being comparable, cuts both ways. Then why fly F9 or NK when you can get more frequency, more seat space, more reliability and better service from WN for the same price? Who's being irrational?


I would disagree about fares + fees on NK being comparable to WN's lack of bag fees, etc. to the point where it's less of a hassle to book on WN from PIT than on NK (though, YMMV depending on your local airport).
2019: DAL, MCI, PHX, LAS, DFW, SAT, ORD, SLC, SEA, DTW; B73G (WN x3), B738 (WN, AA, DL), A20N (NK), MD83 (AA), B788 (AA x2), CS1 (DL), 739 (DL), 712 (DL)
Next: AA: DFW-PHL (752), PHL-MIA (763), MIA-LAX (77W), LAX-DFW (789)
 
stlgph
Posts: 10970
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Mon Feb 19, 2018 4:24 am

For the millionth time, there is nothing about Sun Country to acquire. Their fleet is leased.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 9495
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

Sun Country Lays Off 20% of Employees Outsources MSP

Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:35 am

Surprising just MSP airport staff is 20%. Given that AS did this a while back in SEA I'm actually surprised SY hadn't done it already. Sad, for those affected.

http://www.startribune.com/sun-country- ... 474606963/
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3096
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 1999 1:31 pm

Re: Sun Country Lays Off 20% of Employees Outsources MSP

Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:03 am

Trying to go Allegiant lite is going end badly for this airline.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 4975
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

Re: Sun Country Lays Off 20% of Employees Outsources MSP

Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:14 am

william wrote:
Trying to go Allegiant lite is going end badly for this airline.


I tend to agree. Making this airline an ULCC might not be the right formula for this airline (maybe). But it did work for F9, NK and G4 so far.
 
hiflyeras
Posts: 2011
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Re: Sun Country Lays Off 20% of Employees Outsources MSP

Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:31 am

Sounds like they're doing a lot more than AS did...article is talking about customer service agents as well as baggage handlers (which was who AS replaced with an outside vendor).
 
abrelosojos
Posts: 4253
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:48 am

Re: Sun Country Lays Off 20% of Employees Outsources MSP

Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:36 am

Another airline that does not seem to know what is going on.

Saludos,
Alex
Live, and let live.
 
User avatar
janders
Moderator
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:27 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:53 am

350 ground staff at MSP being let go next month as SY opts to contract out the functions.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... s-out.html
"We make war that we may live in peace." -- Aristotle
 
User avatar
usdcaguy
Posts: 1303
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 12:41 pm

Re: Sun Country Lays Off 20% of Employees Outsources MSP

Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:04 am

Gotta feel sorry for the SY guys at MSP. That will take part of what is left of a good company away.
 
Flighty
Posts: 9963
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 3:07 am

Re: Sun Country Lays Off 20% of Employees Outsources MSP

Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:40 am

It is sad, but they have to compete in a tough situation. SY has a long history of having to do whatever it takes. You sign on with SY you know the odds.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 23641
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:51 am

Probably no shock.
Self handling is becoming ever rarer thing these days especially for smaller airlines as it does create long-term cost ballon as staff becomes ever more senior, while contract handling is a competitive business with more predictable cost.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
n7371f
Posts: 1552
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 3:54 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:08 am

Shitty news. Despite some posts from an individual completely incompetent about the MSP market, SY had a decent following. Minnesotans are traditionally verse y loyal.

Love the typical speak from Jude about how the customer service importance hasn't diminished. Um, yes it has. Minimum wage people serving as the customer fronting at airports...discuss.


janders wrote:
350 ground staff at MSP being let go next month as SY opts to contract out the functions.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... s-out.html
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4559
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:12 am

stlgph wrote:
For the millionth time, there is nothing about Sun Country to acquire. Their fleet is leased.


This is not how it works. When you acquire a company, you are acquiring the equity behind it. In the case of Sun Country, it would be the cash flow that was generated in the past, or more realistically the expected cash flows that the company will generate moving forward. If that leased fleet generates strong cash flows then the value of the company will be far higher than $0. Old Sun Country generated very little in terms of profits and cash flow, but they were acquired by Apollo after the strategy started to change - probably because Apollo thinks the new model will generate higher, more stable cash flows.

If your argument were true, then Spirit would have never IPO'd, Virgin would have never sold, and Frontier wouldn't IPO in the future - all 3 had mostly, if not 100%, leased fleets at the time of their sale (or will in the case of Frontier).
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4219
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:32 am

Gosh, while I am bummed to see them go this route, I also understand the reason behind it. If it isn't making money, or performing above goals, something has to change. I suppose if they kept doing the same strategy they have now, it might just be a prolonged death.

I didn't think F9 stood a chance when Bill Franke came in...... Boy was I proven wrong. I seriously wish Sun Country the best!!! Especially for the employees!
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4219
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:35 am

n7371f wrote:
Shitty news. Despite some posts from an individual completely incompetent about the MSP market, SY had a decent following. Minnesotans are traditionally verse y loyal.

Love the typical speak from Jude about how the customer service importance hasn't diminished. Um, yes it has. Minimum wage people serving as the customer fronting at airports...discuss.


janders wrote:
350 ground staff at MSP being let go next month as SY opts to contract out the functions.

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/ ... s-out.html


Well, that's a clue for sure on how Sun Country will go. Saddens me to see an airline outsource it's workers.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1535
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:06 am

Sun Country Airlines laying off 350 ground workers in Minneapolis.

http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2018/feb/ ... d-workers/
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
stlgph
Posts: 10970
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 4:19 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:10 pm

heavymetal wrote:
stlgph wrote:
For the millionth time, there is nothing about Sun Country to acquire. Their fleet is leased.


This is not how it works. When you acquire a company, you are acquiring the equity behind it. In the case of Sun Country, it would be the cash flow that was generated in the past, or more realistically the expected cash flows that the company will generate moving forward. If that leased fleet generates strong cash flows then the value of the company will be far higher than $0. Old Sun Country generated very little in terms of profits and cash flow, but they were acquired by Apollo after the strategy started to change - probably because Apollo thinks the new model will generate higher, more stable cash flows.

If your argument were true, then Spirit would have never IPO'd, Virgin would have never sold, and Frontier wouldn't IPO in the future - all 3 had mostly, if not 100%, leased fleets at the time of their sale (or will in the case of Frontier).


That's nice, but Sun Country doesn't have any equity at its present size and scale. Don't kid yourself.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
heavymetal
Posts: 4559
Joined: Fri May 08, 2015 3:37 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:05 pm

stlgph wrote:
heavymetal wrote:
stlgph wrote:
For the millionth time, there is nothing about Sun Country to acquire. Their fleet is leased.


This is not how it works. When you acquire a company, you are acquiring the equity behind it. In the case of Sun Country, it would be the cash flow that was generated in the past, or more realistically the expected cash flows that the company will generate moving forward. If that leased fleet generates strong cash flows then the value of the company will be far higher than $0. Old Sun Country generated very little in terms of profits and cash flow, but they were acquired by Apollo after the strategy started to change - probably because Apollo thinks the new model will generate higher, more stable cash flows.

If your argument were true, then Spirit would have never IPO'd, Virgin would have never sold, and Frontier wouldn't IPO in the future - all 3 had mostly, if not 100%, leased fleets at the time of their sale (or will in the case of Frontier).


That's nice, but Sun Country doesn't have any equity at its present size and scale. Don't kid yourself.


Is this a fact that you can support with data? Per their latest Form 41 filing, stockholders equity on their balance sheet was worth $52M. Of course, that's only balance sheet reported equity, which doesn't necessarily match what the market would value them at - the market could value them higher or lower than what's on the books. The market generally values airlines based on EV/EBITDA or EV/EBITDAR, and Sun Country generated $29M in EBITDA or $116M in EBITDAR as of year-end 3Q 2017 - so no matter what multiple you apply to those, the market would value them at more than $0.

I think we are in agreement that their equity is not much regardless, but it's patently false to say there was "nothing" to acquire, and even more false to say it was nothing simply because they leased their entire fleet. Again, if this was true then Apollo would have acquired them for $0, Spirit would have never IPO'd, Virgin America never would have IPO'd, and Frontier would never IPO/sell. This is a is website needs to get off the idea that simply leasing aircraft means that an airline has "no" value.
 
drdisque
Posts: 1058
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:57 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:37 pm

From an operational standpoint, it didn't make sense for SY to operate a single above/below the wing station in house. A firm with more scale can probably do it much more effectively. I know some of the employees won't be happy as they probably lose their seniority and flight benefits and maybe some pay (junior folks probably won't see much difference). Since they're going ULCC, those flight benefits won't be worth much soon anyway. As far as I know most ULCC's have lousy flight benefits (since the flights are so full and the fares are so cheap, flight benefits are kind of pointless anyway on a ULCC).
 
klakzky123
Posts: 651
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2016 4:05 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:22 pm

Even the Big 3 are contracting a significant portion of their ground handling. Gone are the days when you could get a job with a major airline in ground handling ops at a small airport. Hell it wasn't too long ago that one could get placed at international airports to do ground ops. Now that stuff is either contracted or managed by a partner airline's staff. With SY trying to get costs down, it has to slim down a large portion of its ground handling costs. I'm sure there will still be plenty of SY employees on the ground but more work will be delegated to contract staff. It's sad to see but this is where the industry is going.
 
sunking737
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:06 pm

As a former employee of SY. They started to hire their own staff for pax service, grooming, and cargo because at the time they contracted with ASIG. ASIG was having issues with staffing, SY had issues on how the passengers where treated and the cleanliness of aircraft interiors. SY crews could clean an interior of any 737 is less than 10 min. That was the same amount of time we in Catering had to service that very same plan. But of course, this was back before the Petters ownership. As far as the comment on SY planes to go to HV. IIRC they don't do that anymore. Its been several years now since the last time.
I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP
 
User avatar
SteveXC500
Posts: 505
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:38 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 6:51 pm

sunking737 wrote:
As far as the comment on SY planes to go to HV. IIRC they don't do that anymore. Its been several years now since the last time.


Correct. SY keeps their planes here for the summer schedule.
 
lavalampluva
Posts: 1363
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:33 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:57 pm

SY aircraft aren't being used very efficiently. On domestic flights there is one A.M. departure from MSP with a return, and one P.M. departure from MSP with a return. On international flights it's one A.M. departure with a late P.M. return.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
User avatar
TVNWZ
Posts: 2194
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:28 am

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:27 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
SY aircraft aren't being used very efficiently. On domestic flights there is one A.M. departure from MSP with a return, and one P.M. departure from MSP with a return. On international flights it's one A.M. departure with a late P.M. return.


That might change.
 
sunking737
Posts: 1440
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 10:33 pm

Re: Sun Country to Change Strategy

Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:05 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
SY aircraft aren't being used very efficiently. On domestic flights there is one A.M. departure from MSP with a return, and one P.M. departure from MSP with a return. On international flights it's one A.M. departure with a late P.M. return.


What you don't see is that am flight going to another city doing a flight then returns to the AM city to return to MSP. Ex. Sy sends a plane to say Fargo in the Am flies to IFP or CUN returns to FAR then back to MSP. Another MSP-DEN then DEN - MZT back to DEN then to MSP. They also run an MSP -DFW-CUN-DFW-MSP flight. When they start HNL it will stop in LAX then on to HNL. The flight number changes on the LAX-HNL-LAX flight. SY is a master of flight planning. They sent a plane to wine country in CA. on Friday Then it ferries to do a college football charter or two then ends back in wine country late Saturday or early Sunday to fly back to MSP. SY does a lot of DOD charters too. They have sent planes down to Gitmo, Europe, even island hopped to Okinawa.

WN can run a plane to multi cities all day, same flight number or different numbers same plan all day.
I'm a SUNDUCK......Worked for RC & SY @ MSP

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos