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KarelXWB
Posts: 26968
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:57 pm

Planesmart wrote:
With early SQ A380's, Airbus offered a more generous buyback for weight and cabling issues. As for many A346's, Airbus is the effective owner of these aircraft when the buyback is triggered.


But unlike the A340s, the first 2 A380s don't have a F- registration. Apparently some shell company has been created for these A380s:

> MSN003, former 9V-SKA, re-registered 2-DRPA and now owned by "Flagship Three Limited"
> MSN005, former 9V-SKB, re-registered 2-???? and now owned by "Flagship Five Limited"
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Stitch
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:06 pm

Planesmart wrote:
SQ A380's are leased - depreciation is an issue for the leasor, not leasee.


Well most airframe leases are for 10-12 years so SQ returning them and leasing/buying new would just be par for the course anyway.



Planesmart wrote:
With early SQ A380's, Airbus offered a more generous buyback for weight and cabling issues. As for many A346's, Airbus is the effective owner of these aircraft when the buyback is triggered. Wouldn't be surprised if all five go to the same customer, with 1-2 for parts.

KarelXWB wrote:
But unlike the A340s, the first 2 A380s don't have a F- registration. Apparently some shell company has been created for these A380s:

> MSN003, former 9V-SKA, re-registered 2-DRPA and now owned by "Flagship Three Limited"
> MSN005, former 9V-SKB, re-registered 2-???? and now owned by "Flagship Five Limited"


In 2008, Airbus Financial Services sold MSN003 / 9V-SKA, MSN005 / 9V-SKB and MSN006 / 9V-SKC to Doric Asset Finance for $198.6 million each. Doric then leased them for a 10 year period to SQ (with an optional two-year extension).

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... on-220734/
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:10 pm

And Dr Peters Group created shell companies for MSN003 and MSN005, registered in London, for tax reasons.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Planesmart
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:11 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Planesmart wrote:
With early SQ A380's, Airbus offered a more generous buyback for weight and cabling issues. As for many A346's, Airbus is the effective owner of these aircraft when the buyback is triggered.


But unlike the A340s, the first 2 A380s don't have a F- registration. Apparently some shell company has been created for these A380s:

> MSN003, former 9V-SKA, re-registered 2-DRPA and now owned by "Flagship Three Limited"
> MSN005, former 9V-SKB, re-registered 2-???? and now owned by "Flagship Five Limited"

Unique holding companies for each aircraft are not unusual. In fact it's the de facto standard, whether leased or owned, and in this case reflects the ownership while leased to SQ.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:14 pm

Planesmart wrote:
and in this case reflects the ownership while leased to SQ.


Except the shell companies have been created after the aircraft returned from lease.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Stitch
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:20 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
And Dr Peters Group created shell companies for MSN003 and MSN005, registered in London, for tax reasons.


Guernsey, actually, though the securities are traded on the London Exchange. Same with Doric's aircraft funds.
 
DWC
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:56 pm

QuarkFly wrote:
A380's getting parked after barely 12 years. Why won't SQ sign a lease for another 12-years? I'm sure a great leasing deal is to be had...

SIA only leased the first 5 early frames, the next 14 are owned by SIA as are their new 5.
Seems SIA analyzed the market well : there would be no A389 or A388neo before the 2020s, so bought them to ensure they had them & to internalize the benefits lessors would have made otherwise. And in case of no resale options, best option is still to keep their owned frames.

SIA has repeatedly stated that it has no intentions of growing its A380 fleet beyond 19 aircraft. SIA operated 19 A380s from late 2012 to mid 2017 but is now going through a three-year period in which it will have slightly less A380 capacity due to the delivery schedule of the five new A380s and the subsequent retrofit of the 14 owned aircraft.
[...]
SIA typically looks to resell its owned aircraft when they are approximately 15 years old – in some cases a few years earlier and in some cases a few years later. SIA owns most of its fleet; the initial five A380s and all of its A330s, which were always viewed as interim aircraft, are exceptions.

However, SIA will likely keep its owned A380s for more than 15 years due to the lack of resale options. SIA could end up operating the 14 aircraft that were initially delivered in 2008 to 2012 for approximately 20 years, enabling SIA to fully write down the fleet and investment in new product without needing to find a second-hand buyer.
https://centreforaviation.com/insights/ ... ity-381490
 
BREECH
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:37 pm

lightsaber wrote:
At the time it made it into the paper version of Aviation week.

Aerospace is a gossipy industry who hires consultants and people from other companies. I had a coworker pull out drawings of a RR engine concept one day. He wasn't a coworker in 30 minutes...

Not to mention thousands of non -Airbus engineers could pull the solid models. That ended a few days after the Catia4/5 debacle. It was trivial to find the miss-matches off the information in aviation week.

Lightsaber

You should publish some kind of bulletin or make a blog out of aviation rumors! If you get it on youtube you'd be making more money, too. :-)
No friendship, love or respect unite people as much as shared hatred.
Sergey Dovlatov
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Feb 20, 2018 4:24 pm

QuarkFly wrote:
VirginFlyer wrote:
Don't forget these are early-build aircraft which had to have wiring modifications which render them oddballs in the context of the greater fleet. What will really be interesting is to see what SQ (as well as EK, also known for turning their fleet over relatively quickly) do as more of their frames move into their second decade.


Dutchy wrote:
Weren't the first couple of A380's also overweight?


Ughh, Wiring? Overweight? Every new program has those kind of issues...I think the first 777 is still in service at CX? Thirty year-old BA or KLM 744's probably have their rivets close to popping out.


I understand your point, but look at the early 787´s, the first two are already retired if I´m not mistaken!
At least all A380`s are still in flying condition, as it stands!

It remains to be seen whether the early commercially sold 787´s will enjoy a very long life.....
Same for A350 of course.

Let`s compare modern frames to modern frames, please.

And my 3rd point: do you think the Airbus A380 really suffers from a "bad perception"?
Will airlines NOT order a certain aircraft because the early birds that came off the line retired early?
Would a low-cost operator NOT operate a future "hand me down A380" just because there`s a few early birds parked in the desert?
I don`t think that`s a factor, to be frank with you.
But then....I am known to be wrong.

No Tax On Rotax
For anybody that happens to be wondering:"yes, owning your own aircraft is a 100% worth it!"
 
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Stitch
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:17 pm

notaxonrotax wrote:
...but look at the early 787´s, the first two are already retired if I´m not mistaken!


No customer-delivered frame has been retired. There are a few VIP models either undergoing interior fitting or for sale and the Trent 1000-powered fleet is being rotated in and out of service due to engine replacements.
 
Planesmart
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:18 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Planesmart wrote:
and in this case reflects the ownership while leased to SQ.


Except the shell companies have been created after the aircraft returned from lease.

Separate ownership of each aircraft previously, due to the differing syndicate and funding participants.

Aircraft ownership usually changes twice after lease end, to ensure a 'clean' break.

All SQ A380's were purchased by an SQ entiity, including the first five, for which a sale/leaseback agreement was offered and executed. Lease likely part of the original sales transaction, to compensate SQ for accepting heavy, non-production standard air frames, ensuring they were off market for the lease duration. Alternative would have been for Airbus to replace the five, years earlier, or other compensation.
 
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Revelation
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:01 am

Planesmart wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
Planesmart wrote:
and in this case reflects the ownership while leased to SQ.


Except the shell companies have been created after the aircraft returned from lease.

Separate ownership of each aircraft previously, due to the differing syndicate and funding participants.

Aircraft ownership usually changes twice after lease end, to ensure a 'clean' break.

All SQ A380's were purchased by an SQ entiity, including the first five, for which a sale/leaseback agreement was offered and executed. Lease likely part of the original sales transaction, to compensate SQ for accepting heavy, non-production standard air frames, ensuring they were off market for the lease duration. Alternative would have been for Airbus to replace the five, years earlier, or other compensation.

Pretty interesting details.

Seems like ordering five frames later to replace the five "terrible toddlers" was part of the plan all along.

IIRC when SQ ordered the last five frames people felt they might actually be for growth whereas it seems that was either never in the cards or highly unlikely.

Seems SQ itself enjoyed fanning those flames.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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texl1649
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:20 am

And yet, somewhere, a NW dc-9 is no doubt still flying.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:39 am

Revelation wrote:
IIRC when SQ ordered the last five frames people felt they might actually be for growth whereas it seems that was either never in the cards or highly unlikely.


Considering the fact that these 5 aircaft have more seats, there is actually some truth in that statement :spin:
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:11 am

Stitch wrote:
notaxonrotax wrote:
...but look at the early 787´s, the first two are already retired if I´m not mistaken!


No customer-delivered frame has been retired.


Absolutely, Stitch.
That´s why I wrote:

notaxonrotax wrote:

It remains to be seen whether the early commercially sold 787´s will enjoy a very long life.....
Same for A350 of course.

Let`s compare modern frames to modern frames, please.

No Tax On Rotax


My point was that I think these type of "early retirements", test frames or not; have no effect on future sales.
Nor does it look bad!
I know the early frames take a huge penalty compared to later produced metal down the line.
And if even the likes of myself know it....I bet airlines do too.

No Tax On Rotax
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Revelation
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:55 am

notaxonrotax wrote:
My point was that I think these type of "early retirements", test frames or not; have no effect on future sales.
Nor does it look bad!
I know the early frames take a huge penalty compared to later produced metal down the line.
And if even the likes of myself know it....I bet airlines do too.

It's a data point: the used market cannot find opportunities for the first two "terrible toddler" A380s that have come to market.

We have/had another data point: Malaysia could not find someone to pay their asking price for their used A380s so they are said to be in the process of converting them into pilgrimage aircraft.

They are the only data points we have.

I doubt the owners and/or lessors like the resulting trend line.

Maybe more favorable data points will come in later, maybe not.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
skipness1E
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:34 pm

Airbus does have an issue that their last long haul models have really struggled in the retail market.
The amount of white tail F- A340-500/600s parked up that will likely never fly commercially again has never been seen before in the market, and I say that as a fan of the aircraft.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Feb 21, 2018 12:50 pm

skipness1E wrote:
Airbus does have an issue that their last long haul models have really struggled in the retail market.
The amount of white tail F- A340-500/600s parked up that will likely never fly commercially again has never been seen before in the market, and I say that as a fan of the aircraft.

Yapp, somehow I don't consider Tarbes Lourdes as a good omen for the two A380s...

Image
Image
Pictures "stolen" from this discussion: viewtopic.php?t=1363177

Does anybody know when HiFly intends to start their A380-operations? They already had started to look for additional staff. I am asking because I wonder if HiFly's A380s will not come from Dr. Peter's (see statement above), where will they come from?
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:55 pm

N14AZ wrote:

Does anybody know when HiFly intends to start their A380-operations? They already had started to look for additional staff. I am asking because I wonder if HiFly's A380s will not come from Dr. Peter's (see statement above), where will they come from?


The first Emirates A380 will be 12 years old and potentially come off lease in 2020.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:02 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
N14AZ wrote:

Does anybody know when HiFly intends to start their A380-operations? They already had started to look for additional staff. I am asking because I wonder if HiFly's A380s will not come from Dr. Peter's (see statement above), where will they come from?


The first Emirates A380 will be 12 years old and potentially come off lease in 2020.

Well, but that wouldn’t fit to HiFly‘s announcement that said they would start in 2018 (forgot if they stated any quarter, summer, winter whatsoever...). I am starting to think that HiFly has postponed their plans for introducing the two A380s...
 
LXwing
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:27 pm

Inside rumor is that the A380 will indeed go to HiFly, registered to HiFly Malta. Apparently the registration process as 9H is already underway.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:10 am

LXwing wrote:
Inside rumor is that the A380 will indeed go to HiFly, registered to HiFly Malta. Apparently the registration process as 9H is already underway.

Thanks for the update. So if this turns out to be correct, it shows that all the press releases by Dr. Schneider (no negotiations at all with HiFly, negotiations with HiFly came to an end…) were just negotiation tactics or they finally had to accept HiFly’s financial offer because they didn’t find anyone else to pay more. But actually no need to speculate from my side. Sooner or later we will know.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:26 am

N14AZ wrote:
So if this turns out to be correct, it shows that all the press releases by Dr. Schneider (no negotiations at all with HiFly, negotiations with HiFly came to an end…)


Or perhaps corporate companies do not respond to rumors.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:46 am

KarelXWB wrote:
N14AZ wrote:
So if this turns out to be correct, it shows that all the press releases by Dr. Peters (no negotiations at all with HiFly, negotiations with HiFly came to an end…)


Or perhaps corporate companies do not respond to rumors.

But they (Dr. Peters) DID specifically respond to these rumours for at least three times:

1.) November 2017:
"Hi Fly is also welcome to have discussions with us after they announced they wanted A380s earlier this year, which at the time some thought would be our aircraft," he adds."

Source: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -a-443294/

2.) end of November 2017 - "we are talking to HiFly"
Wir sprechen zwar mit Hi Fly, aber bislang ist eine Anschlusslösung hier nur eine Option von vielen.

Source: https://www.aerotelegraph.com/sehen-den ... r-den-a380

3.) February 2018 - "negotiations with HiFly have been put on ice / positions were a long way away from each other"
Die Gespräche mit dem Wetlease-Experten HiFly, der zwischenzeitlich als heißer Abnahmekandidat gehandelt wurde, liegen laut Dr. Peters derzeit auf Eis. "Bei den ursprünglichen Gesprächen lagen wir zu weit auseinander", teilte Dr. Peters-Pressesprecherin Ulrike Germann auf aero.de-Anfrage mit.

Source: http://www.aero.de/news-28593/A380-wart ... ndung.html
 
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cougar15
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:24 pm

this reminds me of the ´EK on again/off again´ saga relating to purchase or no purchase of A350/787´s. This one is HiFlys to win and Dr. Peters to lose.
what other options do they have for these birds? I think HiFly will get them and try to make them work. 5K are not a bunch of idiots, I wish them best of luck and they seem to be negotiating VERY strategically to further their own goals and agendas, keeping cards close to their chest. Will it be a success? That I am sure will be a point all of us will have great pleasure in discussing going forward ........
some you lose, others you can´t win!
 
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N14AZ
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:10 am

According to aero.de the decision has been made: MSN 003 and 005 will be parted out, subject to approval by the investors at the end of June 2018.
Parting out will take two years and would be done by VAS Aero Services.

Source: http://www.aero.de/news-29316/A380-werd ... kauft.html

As per the report, the investors will get 45 millon EUR for each airframe, which - according to Dr. Peters' CEO - will lead to an excellent result for the investors.
 
TC957
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:18 am

Well, at the end of the day business is business and if those two frames are worth more in parts than being sold on then so be it. Sad, but business reality. So are HiFly getting the next two ex-SQ birds being withdrawn now or what ??
 
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N14AZ
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:30 am

TC957 wrote:
So are HiFly getting the next two ex-SQ birds being withdrawn now or what ??

HiFly's first A380 will be MSN 006, previously SQ #3, currently doing some test-flights in SIN.

Image

http://www.hifly.aero/en/a380/9h-mip.html
 
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Revelation
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:36 pm

N14AZ wrote:
According to aero.de the decision has been made: MSN 003 and 005 will be parted out, subject to approval by the investors at the end of June 2018.
Parting out will take two years and would be done by VAS Aero Services.

Source: http://www.aero.de/news-29316/A380-werd ... kauft.html

As per the report, the investors will get 45 millon EUR for each airframe, which - according to Dr. Peters' CEO - will lead to an excellent result for the investors.

How long till someone starts the "A380 retirement and scrapping thread"?

That may be a bit harsh, but it is a fact that the first A380 pax flight was Oct 25, 2007 and two of the early SQ birds apparently won't survive 12 years past that date.
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
r2rho
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:56 pm

It is sad and bad for prestige, but not surprising. These were the first two "terrible teens" and they are simply worth more in their individual parts than as whole aircraft. These may also not be the last, as there were around 20-ish "terrible teens", so there could be more to come.
This does not speak for the entire program, but it will be a while until the standard-wired aircraft reach their end of leases.
 
Noshow
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:14 pm

Singapore Airlines has a history of not keeping aircraft for too long in order to keep their fleet young. So the fact that they prefer brand new delivered A380 over their oldest five is no surprise. However the difficulties to remarket those used but young birds are surpising to me. I hope there is more demand on the second hand market for A380. New aircraft are pricey but cheaper used ones should be more interesting to many airlines that could fill them even today. From Russia to Iran, Brasil to Indonesia, China to the US and elsewhere. Let's hope future used ones find new homes instead of being parted out. Actually I had hoped that the used availability would actively create new business for the A380.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:10 pm

I guess its all about the money.

The investors appear to have made an acceptable to good return.

As airiner design takes greater account of end of life recycling, and facilitates it, we are likely to see more "young" frames scrapped.
 
strfyr51
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:20 pm

KiloRomeoDelta wrote:
I am still hoping Southwest would pick up a few of these and convert them to all-Economy free-for-all seating 800 seater monsters! Imagine the joy of getting boarding position J37 or K49, and the adventure of walking across two decks looking for that coveted empty seat.

I know I know this is not gonna happen but a guy can dream, isn't it?

That's Some POWERFUL dreaming!!
 
strfyr51
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:33 pm

Revelation wrote:
Planesmart wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:

Except the shell companies have been created after the aircraft returned from lease.

Separate ownership of each aircraft previously, due to the differing syndicate and funding participants.

Aircraft ownership usually changes twice after lease end, to ensure a 'clean' break.

All SQ A380's were purchased by an SQ entiity, including the first five, for which a sale/leaseback agreement was offered and executed. Lease likely part of the original sales transaction, to compensate SQ for accepting heavy, non-production standard air frames, ensuring they were off market for the lease duration. Alternative would have been for Airbus to replace the five, years earlier, or other compensation.

Pretty interesting details.

Seems like ordering five frames later to replace the five "terrible toddlers" was part of the plan all along.

IIRC when SQ ordered the last five frames people felt they might actually be for growth whereas it seems that was either never in the cards or highly unlikely.
This was regularly done by United in the past. Buy an airplane, Sell it to a leasing company then when it's Lease is up? Buy it back for the residual value.
and either retire it,Part it out,or sell it to an Airfreight Company. Which got a LOT of run because the Cockpits and avionics are all matched. I saw a few leasing companies take their airplanes back but only when United was in Bankruptcy.
Seems SQ itself enjoyed fanning those flames.
 
beechnut
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 05, 2018 10:07 pm

zkojq wrote:
ikolkyo wrote:
KICT wrote:
Would this be 9V-SQA?


9V-SKA

I was in Toulouse the day 9V-SKA was wheeled out of the factory. This news makes me feel very old. :old: I've seen it fly into Auckland on occasion over the past few years, which is nice.


Well, I was born on the day Air Canada Viscount CF-TIB was delivered, FIN 646, June 11 1958. And I was 15 when it was retired, in 1974. And here I am, still around 60 years after that aircraft was delivered; 1974 was also the year of my first L1011 flight.

Eleven years does seem short for a long-haul aircraft though. I wonder how long PA's very first 747s lasted? Just checked, LN 4 was delivered in 1970 and broken up in 1999! PA had it for 17 years with a brief stint in those years with Eastern.

Beech
 
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garpd
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:59 pm

I remember sometime just before the plane first flew, knowing the order books was pretty much floated by Emirates, I predicted the planes would do about 8 to 10 years then they'll be retired and struggle to find a second home. Some here dismissed this as wishful thinking or hater rhetoric.

The A380 is a niche bird. Her appeal then and today is not huge. The order books speak for themselves. Longer range, twin engines planes have won out. There is no denying that. Airbus' hopes for airlines needing them for oversaturated airports have been dashed by the adoption of more and more point to point routes (incidentally, this is what Boeing predicted as early as the late 70s, hence their 757/767/777 line).

No doubt the A380 will continue to fly for a while yet, but her life span will never rival that of her predecessors.
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Stitch
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:16 pm

garpd wrote:
I remember sometime just before the plane first flew, knowing the order books was pretty much floated by Emirates...


At the time of first flight, Emirates represented 29% of the order book so while they were the largest single customer, they were not really "carrying" the program at that point (that would come almost a decade later).
 
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Stitch
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:08 pm

Well look at it this way, LN005 was worth almost $424 million when she was scrapped (calculated by dividing the write down for her and LN004 divided by two) which is some ten times what MSN003 is said to be valued at and five times what she's expected to bring as spares (both per media reports). :silly:
 
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Revelation
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:04 pm

Maybe an error or two in this Guardian article?: Airbus to break up unwanted A380 superjumbo jets
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stratclub
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:22 pm

lightsaber wrote:
JannEejit wrote:
Excuse my ignorance but how often does an aircraft require to be fully rewired in it's operational lifetime ? And I don't mean the peculiarities of early entry A380's.


Newer aircraft have fiber optics. Less to replace.

Lightsaber

Since the fiber runs in the same bundling as wiring, if the wiring is replaced, the fiber would be replaced at the same time. Fiber does not provide power to using equipment because all that it is capable of is carrying digital signals so it does not replace power wiring.

If you mean that there is less wiring because of the aircrafts AFDX architecture which includes fiber optics, that is correct. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avionics_ ... rnet#Usage
Last edited by stratclub on Tue Jun 12, 2018 2:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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N14AZ
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:28 am

Seems as if landing in Tarbes is like crossing the River Styx...

Found a new picture of MSN 003
Image
Source: https://mainlymiles.com/2018/06/06/sing ... -scrapped/
 
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par13del
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:48 am

So does anyone feel that the cost to reconfigure the interior on A380's will also affect the second hand market?
 
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N14AZ
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:01 pm

par13del wrote:
So does anyone feel that the cost to reconfigure the interior on A380's will also affect the second hand market?

I thought that was the common consent*) in another A380-thread (the latest MH-A380-thread?). I think there was even an article that came to that conclusion.

_________________________________________
*) if something like this exists on a.net
 
Milka
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:13 pm

I had the luck to fly on 9V-SKA in Business from FRA to SIN back in 2012, the interior was quite worn out back then already.
 
SGSnow
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:16 pm

Currently SQ has five aircraft on de-lease (9V-SKA to 9V-SKE), but lately we've three new ones (9V-SKU to 9V-SKW, and soon to arrive 9V-SKY).

It's simply just replacing the older A380s with new ones.
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ricport
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:17 pm

KiloRomeoDelta wrote:
I am still hoping Southwest would pick up a few of these and convert them to all-Economy free-for-all seating 800 seater monsters! Imagine the joy of getting boarding position J37 or K49, and the adventure of walking across two decks looking for that coveted empty seat.

I know I know this is not gonna happen but a guy can dream, isn't it?


You forgot to add in the numerous lazy dimwit mothers changing their kid's diapers wherever they please, the acres of cattle lines where you get to walk up to complete strangers and play BS boarding bingo ("are you Z99? I'm Z98!"), and begging the FA for that can of soda when they're not too busy screeching nonsense over the PA. Then, your WN "dream" would be truly complete.
 
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notaxonrotax
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:00 pm

Revelation wrote:
it is a fact that the first A380 pax flight was Oct 25, 2007 and two of the early SQ birds apparently won't survive 12 years past that date.


Yes, but to be fair: they are part of the early batch....the so-called "terrible teens".
Compare that to the B787 program, 2 aircraft never even made it this long: one has been parted out, the other frame has been parked at a museum yonks ago.
I think the early commercially sold A380`s have done OK, considering how overweight they were.
All test-birds are keeping busy too.

garpd wrote:
I remember sometime just before the plane first flew, knowing the order books was pretty much floated by Emirates, I predicted the planes would do about 8 to 10 years .


Emirates did not float the order books then, you are "remembering" things that suit your agenda.
Also, most A380`s will do a lot more than your 8-10 years....but if the "terrible teens" limited lifespan suits your agenda, then congrats on your "correct" prediction.

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Polot
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:31 pm

notaxonrotax wrote:

Yes, but to be fair: they are part of the early batch....the so-called "terrible teens".
Compare that to the B787 program, 2 aircraft never even made it this long: one has been parted out, the other frame has been parked at a museum yonks ago.
I think the early commercially sold A380`s have done OK, considering how overweight they were.
All test-birds are keeping busy too.

To be fair Airbus has two “terrible teen” A380s that didn’t make it either, and not all test birds are keeping busy. MSN2 and MSN4 weren’t built with the intention that they would go to museums after certification. Neither one are active right now.
 
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PW100
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:46 pm

Polot wrote:
notaxonrotax wrote:

Yes, but to be fair: they are part of the early batch....the so-called "terrible teens".
Compare that to the B787 program, 2 aircraft never even made it this long: one has been parted out, the other frame has been parked at a museum yonks ago.
I think the early commercially sold A380`s have done OK, considering how overweight they were.
All test-birds are keeping busy too.

To be fair Airbus has two “terrible teen” A380s that didn’t make it either, and not all test birds are keeping busy. MSN2 and MSN4 weren’t built with the intention that they would go to museums after certification. Neither one are active right now.


Sure. But that only confirms that the early teens are not a good representation of A380 second hand market.
I'd expect that reconfiguration of the A380 "terrible teens" (pre MSN026) will be very labour intesive, as they were basically handwired and certificated individually. Don't see much happening there in terms of cabin reconfigurations. Thus remarketability (if that's a word) will be severely limited for these frames. Hardly representative for the fleet.

I'm must more interested in how (un-)economical later production blocks (post MSN026, post MSN095) will be in terms of cabin reconfiguration and refurbishment. I'll guess I'll have to wait another couple of years . . .
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Polot
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Re: First Airbus A380 parked amid search for new operator

Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:58 pm

PW100 wrote:
Polot wrote:
notaxonrotax wrote:

Yes, but to be fair: they are part of the early batch....the so-called "terrible teens".
Compare that to the B787 program, 2 aircraft never even made it this long: one has been parted out, the other frame has been parked at a museum yonks ago.
I think the early commercially sold A380`s have done OK, considering how overweight they were.
All test-birds are keeping busy too.

To be fair Airbus has two “terrible teen” A380s that didn’t make it either, and not all test birds are keeping busy. MSN2 and MSN4 weren’t built with the intention that they would go to museums after certification. Neither one are active right now.


Sure. But that only confirms that the early teens are not a good representation of A380 second hand market.
I'd expect that reconfiguration of the A380 "terrible teens" (pre MSN026) will be very labour intesive, as they were basically handwired and certificated individually. Don't see much happening there in terms of cabin reconfigurations. Thus remarketability (if that's a word) will be severely limited for these frames. Hardly representative for the fleet.

I'm must more interested in how (un-)economical later production blocks (post MSN026, post MSN095) will be in terms of cabin reconfiguration and refurbishment. I'll guess I'll have to wait another couple of years . . .

Well we do know that MH has had trouble remarketing their A380s (MSNs 78, 81, 84, 89, 94, 114). We don’t know how realistic their asking price were and how flexible they were though.
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