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Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:22 pm
by hkcanadaexpat
I though i would consolidate the discussion on DL's widebody fleet into one thread. There's a lot happening in the near to medium term. So much to discuss. Let's try to avoid the A vs B banter and focus on the following topics:
> Routes currently flown, future routes, cancelled routes
> Current fleet, future fleet, retired fleet
> Soft product upgrades/changes

The active DL widebody fleet currently stands at 149 (as of August 25th). This excludes the two A359s that have been delivered but are not active yet. With committed near term deliveries and upcoming retirements, there will be some interesting shuffling of widebody deployment on the various routes, especially in Summer 2018 when the fleet is stretched.
The latest info i have show the following near-term fleet movements:
> Deliveries: (5) A359s in 2017 (incl. above 2), (6) A359s in 2018, (4) A359s in 2019, followed by a bunch of A339s beginning in late 2019
> Retirements: (7) B744s in 2017, (3) Domestic 763s in 2017-early 2018 and (2) B763ERs (low-J) in late 2017-early 2018, followed by more B763ERs

Summer is the busiest season. All 149 widebodies are currently in active duty (except 1x A332 getting a fix in Seattle after contact with another airliner). Effective September 1st, some slack will begin to appear in the schedule which will allow some of the widebody aircraft to rotate through maintenance, including installation of the Delta One Suites on the B777s.

Details of the widebody fleet and routes flown (as of August 25, 2017) is below. I will attempt to update this as time goes. Next widebody shuffle will occur week of September 1st as DL's latest timetable.

3x B763 Domestic [C30W28Y203] - 3/3 needed
ATL-LAX (1x weekly)
ATL-SAN (12x weekly)
ATL-SLC-HNL (daily)

29x B763ER High-J Configuration [C36W32Y143] - 28/29 needed
ATL-BRU (daily)
ATL-LHR (2x daily)
ATL-SCL (daily)
BOS-CDG (daily)
BOS-LHR (daily)
DTW-LHR (10x weekly)
DTW-MUC (daily)
JFK-GRU (daily)
JFK-LHR (3x daily)
JFK-SEA-NRT (daily)
JFK-SFO (7-10x weekly)
JFK-ZRH (daily)
MCO-GRU (daily)
MSP-LHR (daily)
NRT-SIN (daily)
PDX-LHR (4x weekly)
RDU-CDG (daily)
SEA-ICN (daily)
SEA-PEK (daily)
SLC-LHR (daily)

7x B763ER High-J Configuration with crew rest [C36W29Y143] - 7/7 needed
ATL-LHR (daily)
ATL-LOS (daily)
ATL-SEA-PVG (daily)
NRT-PDX (daily)
NRT-PVG (daily)

22x B763ER Low-J Configuration [C26W29Y171] - 22/22 needed
CVG-CDG (daily)
EWR-AMS (daily)
EWR-CDG (daily)
HNL-FUX (daily)
HNL-KIX (1x weekly)
HNL-LAX (daily)
HNL-NGO (4x weekly)
HNL-NRT (8x weekly)
HNL-SEA (daily)
JFK-ACC (3x weekly)
JFK-AGP (daily)
JFK-AMS (daily)
JFK-BRU (daily)
JFK-CPH (4x weekly)
JFK-DKR (1x weekly)
JFK-LAX (4x daily)
JFK-SFO (16-19x weekly)
JFK-SNN (daily)
JFK-SVO (5x weekly)
JFK-TXL (daily)
NRT-MNL (daily)
SLC-CDG (daily)

11x A332 [C34W32Y168] - 11/11 needed (N851NW is out of commission in SEA, 1x daily DTW-AMS being done on spare A333 aircraft)
DTW-AMS (3x daily)
DTW-FRA (daily)
DTW-GRU (3x weekly)
DTW-NGO (5x weekly)
DTW-PEK (daily)
SEA-AMS (daily)
SEA-HKG (daily)
SLC-AMS (daily)

21x B764 [C40W28Y178] - 20/21 needed
ATL-BCN (daily)
ATL-CDG (daily)
ATL-DUS (daily)
ATL-EZE (daily)
ATL-FCO (daily)
ATL-FRA (daily)
ATL-LIM (daily)
ATL-MAD (daily)
ATL-MUC (daily)
ATL-MXP (4x weekly)
ATL-STR (daily)
ATL-VCE (4x weekly)
ATL-ZRH (6x weekly)
JFK-DUB (daily)
JFK-FRA (daily)
JFK-LAX (5x weekly)
JFK-MAD (daily)
JFK-NCE (daily)
JFK-PRG (daily)
JFK-VCE (daily)

8x B772ER [C37W36Y218] - 8/8 needed
JFK-BCN (daily)
JFK-CDG (daily)
JFK-TLV (daily)
LAX-HND (daily)
MSP-CDG (daily)
MSP-HND (daily)

10x B772LR [C37W38Y218] - 9/10 needed
ATL-ICN (daily)
ATL-JNB (daily)
ATL-LAX-PVG (daily)
ATL-NRT (daily)
LAX-SYD (daily)

31x A333 [C34W32Y227] (incl. 10x HGW version but schedule not segregated) - 30/31 needed (spare currently used for as A332 replacement)
ATL-AMS (3x daily)
ATL-CDG (daily)
ATL-DUB (daily)
ATL-FCO (daily)
ATL-GIG (daily)
ATL-GRU (daily)
ATL-HNL (daily)
BOS-AMS (2x daily)
DTW-AMS (daily)
DTW-CDG (daily)
DTW-FCO (daily)
HNL-KIX (daily)
HNL-NGO (3x weekly)
JFK-AMS (daily)
JFK-ATH (2x daily)
JFK-FCO (daily)
JFK-LAX (daily)
JFK-MXP (daily)
MSP-AMS (3x daily)
MSP-HNL (3x weekly)
PDX-AMS (daily)
SEA-AMS (daily)
SEA-CDG (daily)

7x B744 [C48W42Y286] - 5/7 needed
DTW-ICN (daily)
DTW-NRT (daily)
DTW-PVG (6x weekly)
HNL-NRT (6x weekly)

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 2:25 pm
by hkcanadaexpat
As a matter of information, the A359s [C32W48Y226] will be deployed on the following announced routes:
10/30: DTW-NRT (B744)
11/18: DTW-ICN (B744)
2/23: DTW-PEK (A332)
3/24: ATL-ICN (B77L)

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:15 pm
by flymco753
Thanks for the update on the widebody fleet.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:43 pm
by FSDan
It's pretty crazy to see how far DL has been stretching their widebody fleet recently compared to UA and AA which have both had major slack in certain fleet types (763s for UA, 772s for AA) even through the summer. I do wonder how much of a competitive disadvantage it puts them at.

How many of the 2018 359 deliveries are likely to happen before the summer schedule kicks into high gear in June? Hopefully enough to cover the flying that will need to be replaced due to the few 763ER retirements, which would likely be backfilled by A330s.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:52 pm
by jbs2886
FSDan wrote:
It's pretty crazy to see how far DL has been stretching their widebody fleet recently compared to UA and AA which have both had major slack in certain fleet types (763s for UA, 772s for AA) even through the summer. I do wonder how much of a competitive disadvantage it puts them at.

How many of the 2018 359 deliveries are likely to happen before the summer schedule kicks into high gear in June? Hopefully enough to cover the flying that will need to be replaced due to the few 763ER retirements, which would likely be backfilled by A330s.


Looks like 5 of the 6 in 2018 will be delivered in the Spring. https://sites.google.com/site/a350xwbpr ... ction-list

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 4:55 pm
by airzona11
This is an awesome list, thank you very much for putting it together!

That is a fine tuned/well run operation.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 5:06 pm
by 777Mech
FWIW the 777s will get the new D1 cabin starting in February 2018, and the first frame will not emerge until late May. The entire fleet should be done by the end of 2018. I'll have to check and see when the 764s will start getting the midlife.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:13 pm
by Yahnih
does anyone know if the a330s will be getting the new Delta One product or keeping the same? I just know they only announced It for the a350 and 777.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:54 pm
by A380MSN004
Amazing job, thanks for this very interesting list.

Do we know where will go the "B763ERs (low-J) in late 2017-early 2018" ?
Another operator? Converted as a freighter? Stored? Scrapped?

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:12 pm
by 747d10
777Mech wrote:
FWIW the 777s will get the new D1 cabin starting in February 2018, and the first frame will not emerge until late May. The entire fleet should be done by the end of 2018. I'll have to check and see when the 764s will start getting the midlife.


What are the 764s going to get in the midlife?

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:26 pm
by 11725Flyer
Thanks for putting together. Great information.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:27 pm
by ElroyJetson
Interesting info. Thanks.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:40 pm
by 777Mech
747d10 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
FWIW the 777s will get the new D1 cabin starting in February 2018, and the first frame will not emerge until late May. The entire fleet should be done by the end of 2018. I'll have to check and see when the 764s will start getting the midlife.


What are the 764s going to get in the midlife?


A much needed cabin refresh. Should get the new D1 cabin and premium economy.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 11:59 pm
by N126DL
What happened to the out of service A332?

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:10 am
by amadorE175
777Mech wrote:
747d10 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
FWIW the 777s will get the new D1 cabin starting in February 2018, and the first frame will not emerge until late May. The entire fleet should be done by the end of 2018. I'll have to check and see when the 764s will start getting the midlife.


What are the 764s going to get in the midlife?


A much needed cabin refresh. Should get the new D1 cabin and premium economy.


I'm curious about what they'll pick for new D1 seats. There's not a ton of options for business seating on 767s. The 764s are probably too narrow for the Vantage XL-based Suites in a 1-2-1 configuration. Unless they go with a different seat, they'll probably get the latest version of the regular Vantage seat with bigger monitors, new finishings, new seat covers but that'd be the extent of it, I would think.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:18 am
by Narfish641
Doing research again on Deltas website, the final date for the 767-300 for passenger service looks like late October (Around the 27th). Once out of passenger service they will use them as charters for the NFL, once the NFL season is completed they will be retired from service completely. (Credit to hkcanadaexpat for the NFL charter part from the 767-300 Final Flight fourm).

And looking at the widebody fleet for next year its gonna be thin. The 763, a few 763ER, 744 all retired in a 2 to 3 month span. Even with the A359s coming its gonna look so thin at Hartsfield Jackson it will be a blessing to catch at least 3-5 Delta widebody aircrafts spotting here. It cool to see narrowbodies at times but as a aviation spotter myself we always want to see the big guys out and roaring over our heads.

RIP 747-400 and 767-300s.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:12 am
by 777Mech
amadorE175 wrote:
777Mech wrote:
747d10 wrote:

What are the 764s going to get in the midlife?


A much needed cabin refresh. Should get the new D1 cabin and premium economy.


I'm curious about what they'll pick for new D1 seats. There's not a ton of options for business seating on 767s. The 764s are probably too narrow for the Vantage XL-based Suites in a 1-2-1 configuration. Unless they go with a different seat, they'll probably get the latest version of the regular Vantage seat with bigger monitors, new finishings, new seat covers but that'd be the extent of it, I would think.


Supposedly Delta Flight Products is helping design and build the seats for the 767. I believe that's why it will take longer to induct the first frame.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:11 am
by ehaase
I love the analysis in the original post. It is very time consuming to look up this information in the flight schedules. It would be interesting to read a similar analysis for United and American.

It seems that most of the routes flown by the 777-200ER could be done with the 339's, which makes me wonder if Delta will need many more 359's after the initial 15.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:19 am
by hkcanadaexpat
A380MSN004 wrote:
Do we know where will go the "B763ERs (low-J) in late 2017-early 2018" ?
Another operator? Converted as a freighter? Stored? Scrapped?

I believe these are being retired as they cycle out. Will be scrapped for parts. 27 year old frames!
N126DL wrote:
What happened to the out of service A332?

I believe N851NW made contact with another aircraft while at the gate on arrival on August 7th @SEA. Needs minor repairs.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:02 am
by DL_Mech
Narfish641 wrote:
the final date for the 767-300 for passenger service looks like late October (Around the 27th). Once out of passenger service they will use them as charters for the NFL, once the NFL season is completed they will be retired from service completely. (Credit to hkcanadaexpat for the NFL charter part from the 767-300 Final Flight fourm).


I wonder if there will be operating restrictions on these non-NGS equipped airframes past the December 26 NGS AD due date? Will the charter flights operate under part 121?

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/info/all_infos/media/2014/InFO14004.pdf

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:38 am
by Sancho99504
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
A380MSN004 wrote:
Do we know where will go the "B763ERs (low-J) in late 2017-early 2018" ?
Another operator? Converted as a freighter? Stored? Scrapped?

I believe these are being retired as they cycle out. Will be scrapped for parts. 27 year old frames!
N126DL wrote:
What happened to the out of service A332?

I believe N851NW made contact with another aircraft while at the gate on arrival on August 7th @SEA. Needs minor repairs.


851 was hit with a forklift by a no longer employed cargo agent. Wasn't his first a/c damage.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:18 am
by seabosdca
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
A380MSN004 wrote:
Do we know where will go the "B763ERs (low-J) in late 2017-early 2018" ?
Another operator? Converted as a freighter? Stored? Scrapped?

I believe these are being retired as they cycle out. Will be scrapped for parts. 27 year old frames!


These include a couple of frames that are the global hours leaders in the 767 fleet with over 120,000 hours. They're done.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:18 am
by Boeing778X
I really do feel that the A339/A359 will be replacing at least the 77Es in the near/mid term. The A359ULR would be an obvious choice for the 77L replacement. Perhaps the deferred orders could be converted.

Even the A350-1000 could work out well for DL if they wanted the additional capacity down the road.

DL widebody fleet going forward has very little drama.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:20 am
by DL777200LR
Anyone know how the JFK-LOS A332 will be rotated? Currently no A332 fly to JFK.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:56 am
by airtechy
hkcanadaexpat.....You put a lot of effort into this Delta aircraft flight schedule. Thank You! It really points out how well they are using their flying assets. :checkmark:

Jim

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:28 am
by Narfish641
Boeing778X wrote:
I really do feel that the A339/A359 will be replacing at least the 77Es in the near/mid term. The A359ULR would be an obvious choice for the 77L replacement. Perhaps the deferred orders could be converted.

Even the A350-1000 could work out well for DL if they wanted the additional capacity down the road.

DL widebody fleet going forward has very little drama.


I'm not to quite sure about the 777-200LRs. They are still pretty young to the fleet (Around 8 to 9 years), I believe they will fly them for many years to come. With the older planes being withdrawn from service there might be a mear shake up into widebody fleet. But I think it will all stablize once the A359s get into the fleet.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:21 am
by 777Mech
DL_Mech wrote:
Narfish641 wrote:
the final date for the 767-300 for passenger service looks like late October (Around the 27th). Once out of passenger service they will use them as charters for the NFL, once the NFL season is completed they will be retired from service completely. (Credit to hkcanadaexpat for the NFL charter part from the 767-300 Final Flight fourm).


I wonder if there will be operating restrictions on these non-NGS equipped airframes past the December 26 NGS AD due date? Will the charter flights operate under part 121?

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/info/all_infos/media/2014/InFO14004.pdf


The two frames in question had NGS installed earlier this year when it was decided they were going to stick around for the end of the NFL season.

1501 and 1503 are getting scrapped due to DL needing parts off of them for the upcoming 76L to Z mod.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:32 am
by DaufuskieGuy
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
As a matter of information, the A359s [C32W48Y226] will be deployed on the following announced routes:
10/30: DTW-NRT (B744)
11/18: DTW-ICN (B744)
2/23: DTW-PEK (A332)
3/24: ATL-ICN (B77L)


any idea where the two twin jets are headed?

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:40 am
by 777Mech
DaufuskieGuy wrote:
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
As a matter of information, the A359s [C32W48Y226] will be deployed on the following announced routes:
10/30: DTW-NRT (B744)
11/18: DTW-ICN (B744)
2/23: DTW-PEK (A332)
3/24: ATL-ICN (B77L)


any idea where the two twin jets are headed?


The 332 will help run JFK-LOS, and with the 777s getting scheduled for mods, moving the ATL-ICN to the 350 should jumpstart the process.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 7:44 am
by LAX772LR
Boeing778X wrote:
The A359ULR would be an obvious choice for the 77L replacement.

Hardly "obvious," as (1) the 77Ls aren't that old and (2) the A359ULR wouldn't give DL's route structure any particular advantage over a 280T standard A350, which some of their latter deliveries can be.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 8:46 am
by factsonly
DL777200LR wrote:
Anyone know how the JFK-LOS A332 will be rotated? Currently no A332 fly to JFK.


Could it be:

- ATL-LOS-JFK-LOS-ATL

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:07 pm
by flyaa757
factsonly wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
Anyone know how the JFK-LOS A332 will be rotated? Currently no A332 fly to JFK.


Could it be:

- ATL-LOS-JFK-LOS-ATL


Exactly. ATLLOS is switching to the A332 on the same date. Has been quite a while since ATL saw regular DL A332 service.

Thanks to the OP for putting this together!

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 1:28 pm
by atl100million
There are A332 ATL/DTW/SEA-AMS/CDG flights on certain days of the week that allow the 332s to rotate between Asia, Africa, and Europe.

With 5 additional A350s due to arrive in the first half of 2018 (if accurate and I would bet it is so that DL can gain a critical mass of airplanes in a short period of time), DL has the ability to add more flights to Asia or replace even more 777 flights. If the focus is on replacing 777 flights, I would bet that the A350 will be heavily used for ATL/DTW flights. If the point is to grow, the A350 could be used to replace the NRT-MNL and NRT-SIN flights will nonstops from the US mainland.

Replacement of eastern US 777 flights with A350s could allow the 777 to be sent to LAX/SEA.

Given the new AMS-MCO flights, DL is already planning to expand its Atlantic network.... the retiring 767s could essentially come from what is currently being used to support beyond NRT flights.

JFK-TLV is already converted to the A330 from the 777 later this year which frees up two 777s.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 2:40 pm
by DL757NYC
I wonder if it would benefit Delta to pick up some second hand 777's

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 3:48 pm
by VictorKilo
With ATL-LOS going to the 332, is SEA-PVG the only 763 flight requiring crew rest? Could we see that route go to the 332 and the High-J fleet commonized with no crew rest?

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 4:46 pm
by TW870
hkcanadaexpat thank you for the informative post!

Does anyone know if SEA-HKG is staying A332? There were rumors awhile back that it was going to the 777, and there could in theory be some slack in the 777 fleet (especially on the 77E fleet with JFK-TLV and I believe LAX-HND going A333). But as others have said they may need those block hours to get the new D1 mods done. But it looks to me just glancing at the schedule that it is staying 332.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:17 pm
by DL777200LR
atl100million wrote:
There are A332 ATL/DTW/SEA-AMS/CDG flights on certain days of the week that allow the 332s to rotate between Asia, Africa, and Europe.

With 5 additional A350s due to arrive in the first half of 2018 (if accurate and I would bet it is so that DL can gain a critical mass of airplanes in a short period of time), DL has the ability to add more flights to Asia or replace even more 777 flights. If the focus is on replacing 777 flights, I would bet that the A350 will be heavily used for ATL/DTW flights. If the point is to grow, the A350 could be used to replace the NRT-MNL and NRT-SIN flights will nonstops from the US mainland.

Replacement of eastern US 777 flights with A350s could allow the 777 to be sent to LAX/SEA.

Given the new AMS-MCO flights, DL is already planning to expand its Atlantic network.... the retiring 767s could essentially come from what is currently being used to support beyond NRT flights.

JFK-TLV is already converted to the A330 from the 777 later this year which frees up two 777s.


The 777s are being routed through DTW for transpacific flights until enough A350s are on hand to replace the 7 744s being retired this year. That's why JFK-TLV and LAX-HND are switching to A333s during the winter schedule.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 5:20 pm
by Sightseer
TW870 wrote:
hkcanadaexpat thank you for the informative post!

Does anyone know if SEA-HKG is staying A332? There were rumors awhile back that it was going to the 777, and there could in theory be some slack in the 777 fleet (especially on the 77E fleet with JFK-TLV and I believe LAX-HND going A333). But as others have said they may need those block hours to get the new D1 mods done. But it looks to me just glancing at the schedule that it is staying 332.


It looks like HKG will be on a 777 starting March 24th through the end of the schedule.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:45 pm
by seabosdca
DL777200LR wrote:
The 777s are being routed through DTW for transpacific flights until enough A350s are on hand to replace the 7 744s being retired this year. That's why JFK-TLV and LAX-HND are switching to A333s during the winter schedule.


JFK-TLV with a 333? That must mean they are finally going to start separating out the HGW versions. I don't think the ex-NW "regular" 333 can make that route westbound without significant restrictions.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 10:52 pm
by Varsity1
seabosdca wrote:
DL777200LR wrote:
The 777s are being routed through DTW for transpacific flights until enough A350s are on hand to replace the 7 744s being retired this year. That's why JFK-TLV and LAX-HND are switching to A333s during the winter schedule.


JFK-TLV with a 333? That must mean they are finally going to start separating out the HGW versions. I don't think the ex-NW "regular" 333 can make that route westbound without significant restrictions.


You sure? It's only 4,934nm per gc map. LAX-LHR is 4,700nm for example.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sat Aug 26, 2017 11:28 pm
by seabosdca
Varsity1 wrote:
You sure? It's only 4,934nm per gc map. LAX-LHR is 4,700nm for example.


That's more than a half hour's extra flying time before taking winds into account, the direct route is closer to the jetstream's typical position, and LHR-LAX is already on the bubble for the 233 tonne 333. It seems easier just to fly the HGW versions, which would have zero trouble with the route, when there are ten of them in the fleet.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:11 am
by atl100million
DL777200LR wrote:
atl100million wrote:
There are A332 ATL/DTW/SEA-AMS/CDG flights on certain days of the week that allow the 332s to rotate between Asia, Africa, and Europe.

With 5 additional A350s due to arrive in the first half of 2018 (if accurate and I would bet it is so that DL can gain a critical mass of airplanes in a short period of time), DL has the ability to add more flights to Asia or replace even more 777 flights. If the focus is on replacing 777 flights, I would bet that the A350 will be heavily used for ATL/DTW flights. If the point is to grow, the A350 could be used to replace the NRT-MNL and NRT-SIN flights will nonstops from the US mainland.

Replacement of eastern US 777 flights with A350s could allow the 777 to be sent to LAX/SEA.

Given the new AMS-MCO flights, DL is already planning to expand its Atlantic network.... the retiring 767s could essentially come from what is currently being used to support beyond NRT flights.

JFK-TLV is already converted to the A330 from the 777 later this year which frees up two 777s.


The 777s are being routed through DTW for transpacific flights until enough A350s are on hand to replace the 7 744s being retired this year. That's why JFK-TLV and LAX-HND are switching to A333s during the winter schedule.


JFK-TLV is a 333 through the end of the published schedule which is next summer. LAX-HND does return to the 777.

DL has made modifications to the crew rest facilities on the HGW 333s to allow them to fly flights over 12 hours. LAX and MSP-HND and JFK-TLV fall in that realm. DL wouldn't be making the modifications if it was a short-term move and they probably wouldn't be doing it just for one route. The 333 can fly a number of DL's current Pacific routes and the 339 can fly that many and more.
s
The problem with the 777 on JFK-TLV is that it is the only flight that is over 12 hours so the 777 is essentially "stranded" at JFK. DL keeps it rotating through the system with flights to BCN and CDG which also connects with MSP-HND, another "stranded 777 flight" since DL has no other reason to keep the 777 at MSP. In fact, DL has said they might make MSP a 330 pilot base but not likely a 777 base.
I expect that MSP-HND will eventually become a 339 along with LAX-HND and several of the SEA-Asia flights while JFK-TLV will be HGW 333s.

DL has 3 777s flying MSP/JFK to Europe at least in the summer and at least another 2 flying to HND, all of which could be done on A330s of one version or another.

The 333 can do 12 1/2 hour flights while the 777-200ER can do 14 hour flights making it better suited for the Pacific. The 777LR takes the range as far as any flight DL could want to fly.

As of now, the A333 and 777 have very similar configurations on DL.

The upgrade to a 777 on SEA-HKG is probably being funded from the 2 aircraft that are presently flying JFK-TLV.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:40 am
by 747d10
777Mech wrote:
amadorE175 wrote:
777Mech wrote:

A much needed cabin refresh. Should get the new D1 cabin and premium economy.


I'm curious about what they'll pick for new D1 seats. There's not a ton of options for business seating on 767s. The 764s are probably too narrow for the Vantage XL-based Suites in a 1-2-1 configuration. Unless they go with a different seat, they'll probably get the latest version of the regular Vantage seat with bigger monitors, new finishings, new seat covers but that'd be the extent of it, I would think.


Supposedly Delta Flight Products is helping design and build the seats for the 767. I believe that's why it will take longer to induct the first frame.


Do the 764s really have only 6 lavs? That seems pretty sparse for 246 pax on a long flight. All versions of the 763ER have 6 lavs.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:10 am
by reltney
Wow, I thought this thread was about flight attendants.....

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 5:47 am
by cfichad
It looks like Delta will ultimately be an all Airbus carrier, is my estimation correct?

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 6:13 am
by Narfish641
cfichad wrote:
It looks like Delta will ultimately be an all Airbus carrier, is my estimation correct?


Feels like it. But at least we still have the Boeing 717s, 737 Next Gens, a few 767-300ERs, 400ERs, and the 777-200LR/ER ( Although I have a feeling the ERs will be retired since they are old).

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 8:46 am
by DL777200LR
cfichad wrote:
It looks like Delta will ultimately be an all Airbus carrier, is my estimation correct?

Sadly that seems to be where delta is leaning towards. The 777 is such an amazing plane to work on :). Not saying the A330 isn't a great plane in its own right but the 777 will always be my favorite plane to work on.

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:19 am
by LAX772LR
DL777200LR wrote:
cfichad wrote:
It looks like Delta will ultimately be an all Airbus carrier, is my estimation correct?

Sadly that seems to be where delta is leaning towards.

Yeah, gotta love those "Airbus 737-900ERs" that DL recent bought 130+ units of.
Oh, and that "Airbus C-Series" that they just bought too. ;)



DL757NYC wrote:
I wonder if it would benefit Delta to pick up some second hand 777's

They've looked into several possibilities over the last decade, under different leadership, and each time have decided against doing so for pax service.

DL isn't particularly keen on purchasing used widebodies. It's been nearly two decades since they've taken any; and in their entire history, have only bought (not counting mergers) a VERY limited amount.



atl100million wrote:
while the 777-200ER can do 14 hour flights making it better suited for the Pacific.

For clarification: 14hrs isn't a limit-- they're 656,000lb birds that can, and have, done 16hr+ flights.

Heck, remember that DL used the -ERs to launch JFK-BOM nonstop, 14months before the first -LR arrived; and that was back when military no-fly zones forced longer routings than optimal... some of those flights went out planned for 17hrs on the westbound (though there was the occasional stop in MAN, due to winds).

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:46 am
by hkcanadaexpat
Aircraft change effective 8/26:
+ ATL-SLC (daily) upgraded from 757/321 to 763 (domestic)
- ATL-SAN (daily) downgraded from 763 (domestic) to 757/321

Re: Delta Widebody Thread

Posted: Sun Aug 27, 2017 12:29 pm
by Narfish641
hkcanadaexpat wrote:
Aircraft change effective 8/26:
+ ATL-SLC (daily) upgraded from 757/321 to 763 (domestic)
- ATL-SAN (daily) downgraded from 763 (domestic) to 757/321


SLC actually has been using the 763 for a bit. And if I'm not mistaken on rare occasions they use a 763ER with the lie flat seats.