Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

drerx7 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:20 am

Yea.. we stay close to NRG...we are dry and haven't lost power or had sewage issues. You guys making these assumptions from hundreds of miles away are way off base. Its an unprecedented event and no city on earth could handle this amount of water...let alone a coastal city...in an area the size of rhode island. My parents home is on Braes Bayou and they dont have water in their house. Unless you really know what you are talking about; I'd suggest perhaps defering to those with boots on the ground.

bw50505 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:23 am

I saw an article with a picture of DL aircraft (presumably at IAH or HOU) with most of the fuselages almost completely underwater. I don't know if this image is Harvey related, but how extensive and expensive is the damage on aircraft that are submerged underwater during floods?

iahcsr · Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:26 am

UA ops at IAH are tentatively planned to resume at 1900hrs Monday with 7 hub to hub flights and facility officially open Tuesday in a limited fashion ... events permitting of course.

jetero · Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:28 am

bw50505 wrote:
I saw an article with a picture of DL aircraft (presumably at IAH or HOU) with most of the fuselages almost completely underwater. I don't know if this image is Harvey related, but how extensive and expensive is the damage on aircraft that are submerged underwater during floods?

Well why not share said photo?

iahcsr · Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:31 am

bw50505 wrote:
I saw an article with a picture of DL aircraft (presumably at IAH or HOU) with most of the fuselages almost completely underwater. I don't know if this image is Harvey related, but how extensive and expensive is the damage on aircraft that are submerged underwater during floods?

IAH has no flooding on the Field itself ... aircraft are not in danger. access roads are completely different matter

jetero · Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:38 am

iahcsr wrote:
bw50505 wrote:
I saw an article with a picture of DL aircraft (presumably at IAH or HOU) with most of the fuselages almost completely underwater. I don't know if this image is Harvey related, but how extensive and expensive is the damage on aircraft that are submerged underwater during floods?

IAH has no flooding on the Field itself ... aircraft are not in danger. access roads are completely different matter

Yep, definitely sounds like it will be closed for weeks, if not months.

bw50505 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:41 am

jetero wrote:
bw50505 wrote:
I saw an article with a picture of DL aircraft (presumably at IAH or HOU) with most of the fuselages almost completely underwater. I don't know if this image is Harvey related, but how extensive and expensive is the damage on aircraft that are submerged underwater during floods?

Well why not share said photo?

I would if I had a link to it/had saved a screenshot of it. I saw it in my Facebook feed and I can't find it anymore (which is why I said it was presumably of a Houston area airport since I only saw it once and wasn't able to confirm myself that it wasn't a stock photo).

readytotaxi · Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:38 am

"The US military has released water from two major reservoirs earlier than planned to protect central Houston, a move that could itself flood several thousands homes. Water is being released from the Addicks and Barker reservoirs in western Houston. Residents nearby have been told to monitor water levels and evacuate if they are in danger, but to wait until daylight before they do so.
The release is expected push up the Buffalo Bayou – one of Houston’s major waterways – by up to 6 inches (15 cm) an hour. The bayou is already suffering catastrophic flooding in the west of the city, at more than 7ft above flooding point."

Looks like a sacrifice for some to save others.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/liv ... WEML6619I2

Cadet985 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:50 am

From 0500L today (Monday) until 1535, my flight board app shows less than ten departures out of IAH, and about the same number of arrivals.

If you're down there, please stay safe!

Marc

smokeybandit · Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:31 am

This claims to be Hobby:

https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/status/ ... 2344884224

Seat1F · Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:58 am

smokeybandit wrote:
This claims to be Hobby:

https://twitter.com/evanmcmurry/status/ ... 2344884224

Already posted up thread.

Tr4il · Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:12 am

bw50505 wrote:
jetero wrote:
bw50505 wrote:
I saw an article with a picture of DL aircraft (presumably at IAH or HOU) with most of the fuselages almost completely underwater. I don't know if this image is Harvey related, but how extensive and expensive is the damage on aircraft that are submerged underwater during floods?

Well why not share said photo?

I would if I had a link to it/had saved a screenshot of it. I saw it in my Facebook feed and I can't find it anymore (which is why I said it was presumably of a Houston area airport since I only saw it once and wasn't able to confirm myself that it wasn't a stock photo).

This one? I know its bad quality sorry
I got this in a groupchat today

smokeybandit · Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:24 am

That's a fake pic. That's an even further photoshop job of a photoshopped pic trying to show how bad it would be at LGA by the end of the century due to global warming.

Midwestindy · Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:34 am

Tr4il wrote:
bw50505 wrote:
jetero wrote:

Well why not share said photo?

I would if I had a link to it/had saved a screenshot of it. I saw it in my Facebook feed and I can't find it anymore (which is why I said it was presumably of a Houston area airport since I only saw it once and wasn't able to confirm myself that it wasn't a stock photo).

This one? I know its bad quality sorry
I got this in a groupchat today

Easy to tell its fake, you know why?

DL would never have that many planes parked at HOU/IAH, especially if a hurricane was inbound!

HOMER71 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:26 pm

Plus that's not the Houston skyline in the background

pietpaflsun · Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:44 pm

Just saw an aerial picture over HOBBY and it appears to show commercial aircraft under water. Any information on airline aircraft on the ground being damaged?

Momo1435 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:48 pm

And if you Google image search that picture with the Delta plane you see that it originated in 2013.

It's most likely a photoshop of the photoshop of LaGuardia posted in this article on rising sea levels. Yes, it's a double photoshop with even higher water level then the original one.
http://www.climatecentral.org/news/coas ... rise-16126

drerx7 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:53 pm

That doesnt sound plausible. Please post pics... the water was not that deep at Hobby. The water has receded where I am.

bmacleod · Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:59 pm

Can't imagine the magnitude this will have on UA operations; IAH is after all - 2nd biggest hub for UA after ORD. :eek:

modernArt · Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:12 pm

HOMER71 wrote:
Plus that's not the Houston skyline in the background

Hey there Homer! Long time.

Another Houstonian checking in. We'll be back. Although, I would imagine in the future, people will reconsider job offers that might take them to Houston. And, probably more than handful will jump at the chance to put the Gulf Coast in their rear-view mirror. If I stay much longer, I'm only living in a high rise.

jetero · Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:54 pm

Tr4il wrote:
bw50505 wrote:
jetero wrote:

Well why not share said photo?

I would if I had a link to it/had saved a screenshot of it. I saw it in my Facebook feed and I can't find it anymore (which is why I said it was presumably of a Houston area airport since I only saw it once and wasn't able to confirm myself that it wasn't a stock photo).

This one? I know its bad quality sorry
I got this in a groupchat today

God amazing what people believe these days, like those supposed photos of the AA 767 taken from WTC Observation Deck.

But we can probably add to the Harvey casualty list atl100million because it probably gave him a heart attack.

jbpdx · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:08 pm

PDX likely one of the major US airports least affected by the catastrophe/cancellations, with only UA PDX-IAH 2x/day and zero to HOU since WN discontinued the route a few weeks ago.

aemoreira1981 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:13 pm

How many aircraft are actually on the ground that could have been inundated with water? I suspect that United could have more problems as IAH is closer to the coast than HOU.

jetero · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:14 pm

jbpdx wrote:
PDX likely one of the major US airports least affected by the catastrophe/cancellations, with only UA PDX-IAH 2x/day and zero to HOU since WN discontinued the route a few weeks ago.

Good for PDX?

Am also happy FWA doesn't have any nonstop flights to IAH so they're 100% OK.

ty97 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:15 pm

readytotaxi wrote:
"The US military has released water from two major reservoirs earlier than planned to protect central Houston, a move that could itself flood several thousands homes. Water is being released from the Addicks and Barker reservoirs in western Houston. Residents nearby have been told to monitor water levels and evacuate if they are in danger, but to wait until daylight before they do so.
The release is expected push up the Buffalo Bayou – one of Houston’s major waterways – by up to 6 inches (15 cm) an hour. The bayou is already suffering catastrophic flooding in the west of the city, at more than 7ft above flooding point."

Looks like a sacrifice for some to save others.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/liv ... WEML6619I2

I've been watching Houston news live streams (probably a bit too much) and a number of news conferences from the folks involved in this decision. It's not so much choosing to sacrifice one group for the sake of another. Rather, the way it's been presented, this is intended to minimize the overall impact. There are dams in both reservoirs. If they don't release some of the pressure, the dams could fail and/or water could rush over/around the dams, making the overall impact for everyone much worse.

It has to be a horrible decision to make (not a job I could do) but it appears to be a decision based on the macro level, not a 'protect A vs B' decision.

bmacleod · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:27 pm

Camera shot of IAH - a few parked UA planes at the gates.

http://www.earthcam.net/projects/houstonairport/intercontinental/livestream.php

thomasphoto60 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:31 pm

jbpdx wrote:
PDX likely one of the major US airports least affected by the catastrophe/cancellations,

Well, goodie.....goodie....for PDX! :roll:

Narfish641 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:34 pm

It's comfirmed. Seems like Harvey wants to take another at Houston. Its starting to move up into Louisiana.

jetero · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:47 pm

Narfish641 wrote:
It's comfirmed. Seems like Harvey wants to take another at Houston. Its starting to move up into Louisiana.

It's very positive for Houston if it moves east of, or even directly over, the City.

drerx7 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:51 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
How many aircraft are actually on the ground that could have been inundated with water? I suspect that United could have more problems as IAH is closer to the coast than HOU.

No. HOU is closer. No aircraft have been inundated with water. ..where did that bogus ass rumor start?
That doesn't matter anyway because this was not a storm surge event. This wasn't a tsunami. The level of misunderstanding of the situation in this thread baffles me. And no-one gives a f*%! about PDX in this thread. :lol:

jbpdx · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:54 pm

thomasphoto60 wrote:
jbpdx wrote:
PDX likely one of the major US airports least affected by the catastrophe/cancellations,

Well, goodie.....goodie....for PDX!

An observation, as airports assess the impact of the situation on operations, rerouting of connecting passengers.

ty97 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:55 pm

IAH now closed until Thursday at Noon per FAA.

jetero · Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:04 pm

ty97 wrote:
IAH now closed until Thursday at Noon per FAA.

No, it isn't.

First off, FAA wouldn't (and I believe can't) do that--HAS owns operates the airport, and according to them, it's closed until further notice.

What it has stated is it "expects" IAH to open Thursday at noon.

tp1040 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:07 pm

Nice coordination on Sunday for SWA to get people out of HOU. 5 planes and 500 stranded passengers flew to DAL. Hobby was closed, but working with the FAA, they were able to get them out on Sunday evening. They still have 10 planes on the ground.

ty97 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:09 pm

jetero wrote:
ty97 wrote:
IAH now closed until Thursday at Noon per FAA.

No, it isn't.

First off, FAA wouldn't (and I believe can't) do that--HAS owns operates the airport, and according to them, it's closed until further notice.

What it has stated is it "expects" IAH to open Thursday at noon.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with? I have no idea who makes these determinations, but I got this information from fly.faa.gov, and as I (and you) said, at least until Noon Thursday.

So I'm awfully confused by your response.

Either way, the airport is closed until at least Noon Thursday. Appears we agree on that.

jetero · Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:27 pm

ty97 wrote:
jetero wrote:
ty97 wrote:
IAH now closed until Thursday at Noon per FAA.

No, it isn't.

First off, FAA wouldn't (and I believe can't) do that--HAS owns operates the airport, and according to them, it's closed until further notice.

What it has stated is it "expects" IAH to open Thursday at noon.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with? I have no idea who makes these determinations, but I got this information from fly.faa.gov, and as I (and you) said, at least until Noon Thursday.

So I'm awfully confused by your response.

Either way, the airport is closed until at least Noon Thursday. Appears we agree on that.

NO it is not.

FAA says they "expect" the airport to reopen on Thursday. HAS says closed until further notice. That's very different than saying that the airport IS CONCLUSIVELY, DEFINITIVELY CLOSED until Thursday. Likely? Probably. But what you wrote, i.e., that the FAA has closed IAH until Thursday, is not factually correct:

"IAH now closed until Thursday at Noon per FAA."

FAA can close ATC facilities but I don't believe they can close airports. That's done by the airport operator.

packcheer · Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:28 pm

Any idea why the Texas Dept of Public Safety is doing laps at 18,000 ft?

https://www.flightradar24.com/N243TX/ea5e85b

The hurricane, yes, I know. What is this aircraft used for specifically? And what Texas local activities related to the hurricane happen at 18,000?

ty97 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:30 pm

jetero wrote:
ty97 wrote:
jetero wrote:

No, it isn't.

First off, FAA wouldn't (and I believe can't) do that--HAS owns operates the airport, and according to them, it's closed until further notice.

What it has stated is it "expects" IAH to open Thursday at noon.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with? I have no idea who makes these determinations, but I got this information from fly.faa.gov, and as I (and you) said, at least until Noon Thursday.

So I'm awfully confused by your response.

Either way, the airport is closed until at least Noon Thursday. Appears we agree on that.

NO it is not.

FAA says they "expect" the airport to reopen on Thursday. HAS says closed until further notice. That's very different than saying that the airport IS CONCLUSIVELY, DEFINITIVELY CLOSED until Thursday. Likely? Probably. But what you wrote, i.e., that the FAA has closed IAH until Thursday, is not factually correct:

"IAH now closed until Thursday at Noon per FAA."

FAA can close ATC facilities but I don't believe they can close airports. That's done by the airport operator.

I honestly can't even comprehend what you're arguing about at this point. I hope you have a good day.

jetero · Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:43 pm

ty97 wrote:
jetero wrote:
ty97 wrote:

Not sure what you are disagreeing with? I have no idea who makes these determinations, but I got this information from fly.faa.gov, and as I (and you) said, at least until Noon Thursday.

So I'm awfully confused by your response.

Either way, the airport is closed until at least Noon Thursday. Appears we agree on that.

NO it is not.

FAA says they "expect" the airport to reopen on Thursday. HAS says closed until further notice. That's very different than saying that the airport IS CONCLUSIVELY, DEFINITIVELY CLOSED until Thursday. Likely? Probably. But what you wrote, i.e., that the FAA has closed IAH until Thursday, is not factually correct:

"IAH now closed until Thursday at Noon per FAA."

FAA can close ATC facilities but I don't believe they can close airports. That's done by the airport operator.

I honestly can't even comprehend what you're arguing about at this point. I hope you have a good day.

Well I'm not surprised if you don't understand the distinction between saying:

"The airport is closed until Thursday" (which is what you claimed and is not true)

and

"The airport is closed indefinitely." (which is true)

csavel · Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:48 pm

I read that Houston built a lot of highways and other municipal infrastructure "to flood" in that they know they live in a hot and humid thunderstorm hurricane prone area so if they build it a certain way, the damage is less than would be elsewhere. At least that is why it bounced back relatively quickly from ALison and other hurricanes.

Of course something like this will challenge even that design because built to flood and built to handle 50 inches of flood in three days are two separate things.

iad51fl · Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:00 pm

packcheer wrote:
Any idea why the Texas Dept of Public Safety is doing laps at 18,000 ft?

https://www.flightradar24.com/N243TX/ea5e85b

The hurricane, yes, I know. What is this aircraft used for specifically? And what Texas local activities related to the hurricane happen at 18,000?

Either damage survey or aerial repeater for search crew radios.

Chris

drerx7 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:03 pm

csavel wrote:
I read that Houston built a lot of highways and other municipal infrastructure "to flood" in that they know they live in a hot and humid thunderstorm hurricane prone area so if they build it a certain way, the damage is less than would be elsewhere. At least that is why it bounced back relatively quickly from ALison and other hurricanes.

Of course something like this will challenge even that design because built to flood and built to handle 50 inches of flood in three days are two separate things.

Spot on. The freeways are designed to channel this water. ..but you can't account for the human element. No city on earth could handle this amount of water for this duration, much less one on the coast.

dragon6172 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:04 pm

packcheer wrote:
Any idea why the Texas Dept of Public Safety is doing laps at 18,000 ft?

https://www.flightradar24.com/N243TX/ea5e85b

The hurricane, yes, I know. What is this aircraft used for specifically? And what Texas local activities related to the hurricane happen at 18,000?

Cadet985 · Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:10 pm

I'm confused. On here, I'm reading that IAH is closed until Thursday. On the FAA's airport statuses, it says closed until 1200L August 28, which is in about an hour.

What's the correct information?

Marc

Newbiepilot · Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:10 pm

jetero wrote:
ty97 wrote:
jetero wrote:

NO it is not.

FAA says they "expect" the airport to reopen on Thursday. HAS says closed until further notice. That's very different than saying that the airport IS CONCLUSIVELY, DEFINITIVELY CLOSED until Thursday. Likely? Probably. But what you wrote, i.e., that the FAA has closed IAH until Thursday, is not factually correct:

"IAH now closed until Thursday at Noon per FAA."

FAA can close ATC facilities but I don't believe they can close airports. That's done by the airport operator.

I honestly can't even comprehend what you're arguing about at this point. I hope you have a good day.

Well I'm not surprised if you don't understand the distinction between saying:

"The airport is closed until Thursday" (which is what you claimed and is not true)

and

"The airport is closed indefinitely." (which is true)

Dude, calm down. No need to shout or get bent out of shape over semantics. IAH is closed and isn't expected to reopen before Thursday. HOU is closed and isn't expected to reopen until Wednesday. As with everything, things can change and a closed airport can still support relief flights. The FAA may not be the one closing the airport, but they maintain the website and provide the notifications that the airport is closed.

IADCA · Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:13 pm

jetero wrote:
ty97 wrote:
jetero wrote:

NO it is not.

FAA says they "expect" the airport to reopen on Thursday. HAS says closed until further notice. That's very different than saying that the airport IS CONCLUSIVELY, DEFINITIVELY CLOSED until Thursday. Likely? Probably. But what you wrote, i.e., that the FAA has closed IAH until Thursday, is not factually correct:

"IAH now closed until Thursday at Noon per FAA."

FAA can close ATC facilities but I don't believe they can close airports. That's done by the airport operator.

I honestly can't even comprehend what you're arguing about at this point. I hope you have a good day.

Well I'm not surprised if you don't understand the distinction between saying:

"The airport is closed until Thursday" (which is what you claimed and is not true)

and

"The airport is closed indefinitely." (which is true)

Dude, the horse is dead. Stop beating it. The airport will open whenever it opens, notwithstanding any semantic disputes on a.net.

I'm actually surprised at how well things seem to be bearing up right now considering the flooding that happens in Houston with much, much less rain. Hope everybody down there stays safe.

iad51fl · Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:16 pm

Children...

The IAH and HOU airports are closed to public traffic indefinitely, depending on accessibility, staff availability, and any repairs needed. The tower at IAH is open, HOU tower was not accessible last night but I think they are back, and I believe EFD tower is operational. I drove by IAH about an hour ago, roads at airport open, access roads to airport flooded. Personnel were at the IAH tower and HAS operations crews are checking runways. Have not been to EFD or HOU.

1st priority is getting stranded passengers out (which last night was about 1000 people between IAH and HOU), 2nd is getting relief flights in (both materials and personnel)...this will require ground staff to be able to get to the airport to operate jetbridges, beltloaders and container loaders. There will also need to be fueling staff on site.

Once that is all to a manageable point, and normal staffing can continue.... THEN they will open the airports to public travel. But do not forget... a lot of the people who work at the airport have had their homes flooded out and have more to worry about than getting to work.

I forsee all Houston airports not at 100% flight schedules for at least 3 weeks.

Chris

jetero wrote:
ty97 wrote:
jetero wrote:

NO it is not.

FAA says they "expect" the airport to reopen on Thursday. HAS says closed until further notice. That's very different than saying that the airport IS CONCLUSIVELY, DEFINITIVELY CLOSED until Thursday. Likely? Probably. But what you wrote, i.e., that the FAA has closed IAH until Thursday, is not factually correct:

"IAH now closed until Thursday at Noon per FAA."

FAA can close ATC facilities but I don't believe they can close airports. That's done by the airport operator.

I honestly can't even comprehend what you're arguing about at this point. I hope you have a good day.

Well I'm not surprised if you don't understand the distinction between saying:

"The airport is closed until Thursday" (which is what you claimed and is not true)

and

"The airport is closed indefinitely." (which is true)

KCaviator · Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:20 pm

There is indeed a NOTAM out that states the airport is closed until Thursday at 1700Z. That is also "estimated" though. The NOTAM can be rescinded at any time.

admanager · Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:20 pm

Some facts here. IAH is 97' above sea level. The week of 8/20 thru 26 IAH recorded 4.17" of rain. The week beginning 8/27 has seen 5.71" of rain.
Hobby airport is 46' above sea level. The week of 8/20 thru 8/26 recorded 3.83" of rain. The week beginning 8/27 has seen 11.82" of rain.
Lots of rain, but the airports will be fine.

IADCA · Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:23 pm

jetero wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
jetero wrote:

Well I'm not surprised if you don't understand the distinction between saying:

"The airport is closed until Thursday" (which is what you claimed and is not true)

and

"The airport is closed indefinitely." (which is true)

Dude, calm down. No need to shout or get bent out of shape over semantics. IAH is closed and isn't expected to reopen before Thursday. HOU is closed am door isn't expected to reopen until Wednesday. As with everything, things can change. The FAA may not be the one closing the airport, but they maintain the website and provide the notifications that the airport is closed.

IADCA wrote:
Dude, the horse is dead. Stop beating it. The airport will open whenever it opens, notwithstanding any semantic disputes on a.net.

I'm actually surprised at how well things seem to be bearing up right now considering the flooding that happens in Houston with much, much less rain. Hope everybody down there stays safe.

DUDES, if you need any evidence that semantics are important:

ICadet985 wrote:
I'm confused. On here, I'm reading that IAH is closed until Thursday. On the FAA's airport statuses, it says closed until 1200L August 28, which is in about an hour.

What's the correct information?

Marc

The correct information is that they are both closed indefinitely.

Yeah, so both your interpretation and the one you're arguing against conflict with the FAA website, which almost certainly doesn't reflect the likely actual course of events. So now I'll use some italics just to make sure that all types of unnecessary typeface emphasis are taken care of, but thanks for the all caps and bold, which seem to assume everyone reading this is too stupid to understand it without your assistance. I can read perfectly well and agree that your semantic interpretation is right. That doesn't mean you need to keep going on like a child about it.

Thank you to the posters who have followed up with actual information.

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