iahcsr
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:47 pm

United1 wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
id]
United1 wrote:
Looks like UA ferried a flight to LAX today....UA2780 not sure if there were passengers on it or not.

The second 77W relief flight today from ORD is on the ground in IAH.


It appears that not that many of the seats were filled, but perhaps UA is using the 77W for its enormous cargo holds. Were those full of relief supplies?


Lots of inbound supplies...there are not lots of people at IAH left to fly out.

UA2756 just departed to ORD with 68.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
blockski
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Tue Aug 29, 2017 11:55 pm

United1 wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
id]
United1 wrote:
Looks like UA ferried a flight to LAX today....UA2780 not sure if there were passengers on it or not.

The second 77W relief flight today from ORD is on the ground in IAH.


It appears that not that many of the seats were filled, but perhaps UA is using the 77W for its enormous cargo holds. Were those full of relief supplies?


Lots of inbound supplies...there are not lots of people at IAH left to fly out.


United posted a short video of them loading a 77W with supplies at ORD: https://twitter.com/united/status/902673252597846018
 
atl100million
Posts: 445
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:07 am

According to Flightaware, UA has already cancelled 350 flights for Thursday. Today they cancelled 450.
 
United1
Posts: 3877
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:39 am

iahcsr wrote:
United1 wrote:
Newbiepilot wrote:
id]

It appears that not that many of the seats were filled, but perhaps UA is using the 77W for its enormous cargo holds. Were those full of relief supplies?


Lots of inbound supplies...there are not lots of people at IAH left to fly out.

UA2756 just departed to ORD with 68.


UA2781 IAH-MCO
UA2787IAH-EWR
UA2785 IAH-PHX

are in the air as well...

http://abc13.com/weather/harvey-to-make ... ght/39346/

Looks like things are starting to clear in Houston so hopefully UA can stick to the plan of running hub to hub flights starting late Thursday. Until then sounds like UA will be flying relief flights twice a day....
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
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LAXintl
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:07 am

Per research note released by Cowen Research at Boyd Conference, they forecast Harvey will cost United ~$255mil in reduced earnings this quarter based on a Thursday IAH reopening, and forecast "extended recovery with lower Houston travel demand".
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MrBretz
Posts: 427
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:27 am

I have some friends who are in Houston. They were suppose to fly out to Europe on Friday. That is not going to happen. My question is what does the airline, UA, I think, do in a case like this. Do they let them book anytime say next week with no fee or what.
 
jetero
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:32 am

MrBretz wrote:
I have some friends who are in Houston. They were suppose to fly out to Europe on Friday. That is not going to happen. My question is what does the airline, UA, I think, do in a case like this. Do they let them book anytime say next week with no fee or what.


Go to united.com, there's a very clear link at top right, a red box. It explains the options.

Last I looked no refunds but no change fees and destination can be changed for standard 330 days.

This can even be done online if they know when they want to travel and not just cancel. I'd guess (I don't work for United) that they can even just click "cancel," save the confirmation number and rebook at a later date (albeit over the phone) without issue.

This is a standard travel waiver. What is not standard is that the length of time is pretty long.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14377
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:56 am

Another problem are the flight crews and ground staff who live in the Houston region who cannot get to work, who's know when they will be able to, may have lost their house or is unlivable or lost their car. That will have a ripple affect throughout airlines like WN, UA and others across their systems for weeks or several months.

Some important roads in the region will be shut down for weeks and many will not able to afford to travel due to their storm losses so could reduce demand out of HOU/IAH. Some offset could occur from recovery workers coming in and out.

Probably some major companies in the Houston area, like the oil companies, even UA (ex-CO facilities) will have to relocate for a while staff and operations to remote backup facilities in Dallas, Oklahoma City, and other locations so airlines may have to shift some flights to them.
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:17 am

ltbewr wrote:
Some important roads in the region will be shut down for weeks and many will not able to afford to travel due to their storm losses so could reduce demand out of HOU/IAH. Some offset could occur from recovery workers coming in and out.


What???? No way. There is no way any important road will be shut down in Houston one week from now let alone many weeks.

610 is clear already except on the East side. 10 has some high spots but its already well on its way down. 45 is pretty clear as well except for the areas South of Hobby. 290 is completely clear. The only one that is shut down in large amounts right now is 59 near Kingwood.

Im sorry, but all of this speculation about what Houston will look like in weeks and months from people outside Houston is garbage. I live in Willowbend next to Meyerland. My neighborhood didn't flood. Meyerland flooded hard. Yet today Meyerland is completely dry. The Brays Bayou is well within its banks. I took a drive from my home to the Galleria Area, Greenway Plaza, Downtown, and back to Sharpstown tonight and was able to do it with ease.

All this speculation is getting way the hell out of hand.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
atl100million
Posts: 445
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:22 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Some important roads in the region will be shut down for weeks and many will not able to afford to travel due to their storm losses so could reduce demand out of HOU/IAH. Some offset could occur from recovery workers coming in and out.


What???? No way. There is no way any important road will be shut down in Houston one week from now let alone many weeks.

610 is clear already except on the East side. 10 has some high spots but its already well on its way down. 45 is pretty clear as well except for the areas South of Hobby. 290 is completely clear. The only one that is shut down in large amounts right now is 59 near Kingwood.

Im sorry, but all of this speculation about what Houston will look like in weeks and months from people outside Houston is garbage. I live in Willowbend next to Meyerland. My neighborhood didn't flood. Meyerland flooded hard. Yet today Meyerland is completely dry. The Brays Bayou is well within its banks. I took a drive from my home to the Galleria Area, Greenway Plaza, Downtown, and back to Sharpstown tonight and was able to do it with ease.

All this speculation is getting way the hell out of hand.


then you will be one of the few to be shocked when the flight reductions which everyone else seems to think are coming actually materialize
 
LAXdude1023
Posts: 5900
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:23 am

LAXintl wrote:
Per research note released by Cowen Research at Boyd Conference, they forecast Harvey will cost United ~$255mil in reduced earnings this quarter based on a Thursday IAH reopening, and forecast "extended recovery with lower Houston travel demand".


Based on all the cancellations they've had, I don't doubt that. Reduced O&D that lasts for months however I don't buy. Im sure there are many people who were to travel to Houston in the days of the hurricane and had to cancel their trips completely. That is lost revenue for the airlines and reduced O&D to that extent. However, Houston is the worldwide center of the energy industry. Our economy (unfortunately) isn't very diverse. The energy industry is extremely international and the demand isn't dictated by natural disasters.

If this were Dallas or Atlanta, both of which who are less international and have more diverse economies, I could see longer term reduced O&D. Houston? I don't buy it.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:28 am

atl100million wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Some important roads in the region will be shut down for weeks and many will not able to afford to travel due to their storm losses so could reduce demand out of HOU/IAH. Some offset could occur from recovery workers coming in and out.


What???? No way. There is no way any important road will be shut down in Houston one week from now let alone many weeks.

610 is clear already except on the East side. 10 has some high spots but its already well on its way down. 45 is pretty clear as well except for the areas South of Hobby. 290 is completely clear. The only one that is shut down in large amounts right now is 59 near Kingwood.

Im sorry, but all of this speculation about what Houston will look like in weeks and months from people outside Houston is garbage. I live in Willowbend next to Meyerland. My neighborhood didn't flood. Meyerland flooded hard. Yet today Meyerland is completely dry. The Brays Bayou is well within its banks. I took a drive from my home to the Galleria Area, Greenway Plaza, Downtown, and back to Sharpstown tonight and was able to do it with ease.

All this speculation is getting way the hell out of hand.


then you will be one of the few to be shocked when the flight reductions which everyone else seems to think are coming actually materialize


First off, I didn't say a thing about flight reductions in the post your referencing.

WorldTraveler, I never said there would be no flight reductions. What I do say is that we aren't going to see massive reductions in O&D LONG TERM from Harvey. Short term sure. The fact that people have had to cancel their trips means reduced O&D. The fact that people may not be able to reschedule themselves for a while out also means reduced O&D. But this is all short term. If Houston's O&D is reduced long term it will have to do with the health of the energy industry, not Harvey.

By the way, I was right about the city and how fast it drains. Almost all of Houston that was underwater currently is not right now and the storm has only passed a few hours. There are a few areas still under water, but very few. I live here. You don't. You just parrot the most extreme things the idiot box tells you.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
LAXdude1023
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:30 am

MrBretz wrote:
I have some friends who are in Houston. They were suppose to fly out to Europe on Friday. That is not going to happen. My question is what does the airline, UA, I think, do in a case like this. Do they let them book anytime say next week with no fee or what.


Why not? The airport will be open and there will be plenty of roads to get them there.

They may cancel the flight, but Im leaving on UA out of Bush on Friday too and Im not worried.
"I dance and laugh among the rotten"
 
atl100million
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 1:28 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:36 am

LAXdude1023 wrote:
IAHFLYR wrote:
Jetero and a few others are correct. the FAA does not close airports the HAS is the folks who close the airport. What you guys are seeing from the FAA is simply broadcasting from the ATCSCC what HAS has delcared.

Living in The Woodlands north of IAH I can tell you we had a very nice long period late last night right up until 1000 this morning with light rain which allowed many areas that had standing water to run off. Of course the rivers and bayous are full and overflowing but IAH operational areas (ramps, taxiways, runways) can take lots of water. No worries about aircraft parked at IAH taking on water such as flooding.

I do love how this thread has taken a much more positive approach from what it was last night......we are HOUSTON STRONG and getting STRONGER!!!


Amen. Thats why I laugh at the notion that this will some how cripple our economy and our air network. It will take 7 days from the end of the storm and things will run normally after that.


feel free to define normal.

If the yardstick was that airplanes would start flying and someone would show up to work, of course the operation at UA would return.

if the yardstick measured whether there were alot of UA employees who were harmed and lost alot, then it is clear that there are far more people impacted that some would like to believe.

If the yardstick is the dent in the Houston economy because of all of this, it is clear that the aviation market will be reduced because of focus on rebuilding priorities instead of vacations and as corporate work is done elsewhere in the US
 
smokeybandit
Topic Author
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:43 am

Just because some interstates are clear doesn't mean people can even get out of their neighborhoods yet
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:49 am

atl100million wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Some important roads in the region will be shut down for weeks and many will not able to afford to travel due to their storm losses so could reduce demand out of HOU/IAH. Some offset could occur from recovery workers coming in and out.


What???? No way. There is no way any important road will be shut down in Houston one week from now let alone many weeks.

610 is clear already except on the East side. 10 has some high spots but its already well on its way down. 45 is pretty clear as well except for the areas South of Hobby. 290 is completely clear. The only one that is shut down in large amounts right now is 59 near Kingwood.

Im sorry, but all of this speculation about what Houston will look like in weeks and months from people outside Houston is garbage. I live in Willowbend next to Meyerland. My neighborhood didn't flood. Meyerland flooded hard. Yet today Meyerland is completely dry. The Brays Bayou is well within its banks. I took a drive from my home to the Galleria Area, Greenway Plaza, Downtown, and back to Sharpstown tonight and was able to do it with ease.

All this speculation is getting way the hell out of hand.


then you will be one of the few to be shocked when the flight reductions which everyone else seems to think are coming actually materialize


"Everyone else," eh?

Same source as "experts are saying 40% of small businesses will close in Houston"? Because that was twisting words at best, and I'm more than 40% sure it was deliberately deceptive.

In any case, feel free to share the plentiful links--since "everyone else" thinks so, there must be many.

The truth is no one knows less than a week into it! Reductions sure. The magnitude of such reductions at this point, and for how long, is purely speculative. Anyone who is saying differently is a snake oil salesman. If you can't at least acknowledge that, I'd say there's something going on behind the curtain. You're spending way too much energy on something that doesn't seem to affect you directly without even at least making a half-hearted, veiled effort at seeming concerned.

Regardless, I'm still at a loss for your point. It's either that you're relentlessly "rubbing it in" about what you seem to be 100% convinced is a major economic disaster that will last for years without recovery as mentioned above and won't be satisfied until we all agree with you, or you want to come back 5 years from now and get some sort of medal for accurate prognostication. I'll take the latter bet that you'll be wrong. How anyone could claim something--on either side (I just wretched for the second time)--conclusively at this point is just nuts.

Seriously what is your point? Do you have any inkling as to how needlessly insulting and provocative you're being?
Last edited by jetero on Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:03 am

atl100million wrote:
If the yardstick is the dent in the Houston economy because of all of this, it is clear that the aviation market will be reduced because of focus on rebuilding priorities instead of vacations and as corporate work is done elsewhere in the US


How much did Sandy reduce NYC O&D? How much did the 2010 flooding in Nashville reduce BNA O&D?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
dc10lover
Posts: 1535
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:17 am

INFINITI329 wrote:
I fear a fuel shortage may be approaching as far as JET-A is concerned

Retire all the CRJ200's early if it goes up that much.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
BNORD1
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:14 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:30 am

commavia wrote:
Not that it matters at all compared to the immediate threat to public safety, but yeah, this is going to be a huge operational mess for both Houston airports - and both Houston hub carriers. It will take days for air travel operations in the area to recover from this.

jayunited wrote:
I also know that AA helped UA out as well UA was able to reroute quite a few passengers to DFW from our other hubs. Passengers whose final destination was either somewhere in Mexico or Central America because as we know IAH is UA main gateway to these destination. But with those flights being cancel out of IAH, AA at DFW was able to help us out and accommodate some of our passengers. I know those passenger trying to get home or going on vacation were appreciative that AA was able to accommodate them out of DFW. In the day and age were it seems as if airlines are always at war with each other it nice to see other airlines at other hubs help out under these unprecedented circumstances that Houston is facing.


:checkmark: As most people working airport ops for any major airline will tell you, competition pretty much stops at the ticket counter.


and its nothing that is new. its been happening since the 60s as I know

"get acquainted with your enemy, someday you may need him as a friend"
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:29 am

Any update on Hobby and if the terminal sustained damage? The viral flooded runway pic is shocking; has the water drained from there?
 
n471wn
Posts: 1717
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:23 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:33 am

100th time the picture is a fake!!!
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:44 am

n471wn wrote:
100th time the picture is a fake!!!


The picture where only the 4-22 sign is above water is a fake?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
atl100million
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 1:28 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:55 am

UA has already cancelled over 400 mainline flights for Thursday and is already cancelling into Friday. WN has cancelled the same number of flights on Thursday as today. 85% of IAH and 95% of HOU flights are cancelled.

According to FlightAware, the only big 4 airline that has no cancellations for Thursday is DL. AS and B6 also show no cancellations for Thursday.
 
Newbiepilot
Posts: 3639
Joined: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:18 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:58 am

Cubsrule wrote:
n471wn wrote:
100th time the picture is a fake!!!


The picture where only the 4-22 sign is above water is a fake?


The twitter photos here are not fake

http://heavy.com/news/2017/08/houston-a ... onditions/
 
ty97
Posts: 659
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 1:06 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:12 pm

AAtakeMeAway wrote:
Any update on Hobby and if the terminal sustained damage? The viral flooded runway pic is shocking; has the water drained from there?


Hobby Airport twitter hasn't really referenced the terminal status, but they did tweet yesterday that the garages and ecopark were not flooded, although the inbound/outbound roads were still closed

https://twitter.com/HobbyAirport/status ... 1633606657
 
AAtakeMeAway
Posts: 423
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2004 8:59 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:08 pm

n471wn wrote:
100th time the picture is a fake!!!


If that was directed at me, I guess I should have been more clear. I was referring to the HOU runway pic, not the photoshopped LGA pic with the DL planes underwater.
 
N383SW
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Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:28 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:17 pm

n471wn wrote:
100th time the picture is a fake!!!

The pic of 4/22 at Hobby is NOT a fake!
 
atl100million
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 1:28 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:36 pm

DL is selling its last two flights into both HOU and IAH today from ATL and all flights tomorrow to ATL.

It appears UA will operate about 20-30 mainline flights tomorrow from IAH.

The Houston Airport System says that access to IAH is partially open.

It is certain that there are flooded cars - some of which may contain bodies - that will have to be removed from intersections and roadways throughout the city.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 892
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:51 pm

Some areas in SE Texas and SW Louisiana truly did get devastated so I don't understand the logic of pretending these places don't exist on some notion that Houston is "tough" in this forum. I don't get the idea of pointing out your neighborhood is ok just to pretend nothing happened. That makes no sense. Especially considering the American taxpayer will be giving the Houston area hundreds of billions to bail the area out so we can do this all over again in 15 years.

Look, I know Houston will rebound but let's not pretend everything is just normal down there.

Speaking of which, is it realistic to think HOU will open by 17Z tomorrow? From reports on here I'm assuming IAH will open at 17Z Thursday. Or no?
 
WWads
Posts: 328
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:18 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:57 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Some areas in SE Texas and SW Louisiana truly did get devastated so I don't understand the logic of pretending these places don't exist on some notion that Houston is "tough" in this forum. I don't get the idea of pointing out your neighborhood is ok just to pretend nothing happened. That makes no sense. Especially considering the American taxpayer will be giving the Houston area hundreds of billions to bail the area out so we can do this all over again in 15 years.

Look, I know Houston will rebound but let's not pretend everything is just normal down there.

Speaking of which, is it realistic to think HOU will open by 17Z tomorrow? From reports on here I'm assuming IAH will open at 17Z Thursday. Or no?


My impression is that the landing lights, and other systems are at least partially wrecked at HOU. I think the terminal itself is fine, but who knows about the support equipment, fuel situation, etc. My guess would be no, or if it does, only a minimum of daylight ops.
 
User avatar
william
Posts: 3193
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:58 pm

As a fellow Texan, I suggest the majority pull away from over hype CNN and get your news from a local station.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/things-t ... /469178025

Yes, there are some neighborhoods under water, but the majority of Houston was Ok. As has been stated many times, Houston floods. The picture of downtown Houston being inundated with water is a repeat of what happened last Spring.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 892
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:07 pm

william wrote:
As a fellow Texan, I suggest the majority pull away from over hype CNN and get your news from a local station.

http://www.khou.com/news/local/things-t ... /469178025

Yes, there are some neighborhoods under water, but the majority of Houston was Ok. As has been stated many times, Houston floods. The picture of downtown Houston being inundated with water is a repeat of what happened last Spring.


I keep hearing about how Houston regularly floods. Yet I just read a CNBC report saying 80% of the residents affected by Harvey do not have flood insurance. That makes a lot of sense.
 
txjim
Posts: 247
Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 1:44 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:09 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Some important roads in the region will be shut down for weeks and many will not able to afford to travel due to their storm losses so could reduce demand out of HOU/IAH. Some offset could occur from recovery workers coming in and out.


What???? No way. There is no way any important road will be shut down in Houston one week from now let alone many weeks.

610 is clear already except on the East side. 10 has some high spots but its already well on its way down. 45 is pretty clear as well except for the areas South of Hobby. 290 is completely clear. The only one that is shut down in large amounts right now is 59 near Kingwood.

Im sorry, but all of this speculation about what Houston will look like in weeks and months from people outside Houston is garbage. I live in Willowbend next to Meyerland. My neighborhood didn't flood. Meyerland flooded hard. Yet today Meyerland is completely dry. The Brays Bayou is well within its banks. I took a drive from my home to the Galleria Area, Greenway Plaza, Downtown, and back to Sharpstown tonight and was able to do it with ease.

All this speculation is getting way the hell out of hand.


Thanks to all the Houston area people who are trying to bring some sense into this conversation. Even from up the road in Dallas, I know that the stories of doom are misinformed at best. It's a tragedy for sure but we've had challenges before and will have them again.

For those who think that the area will be shut down for weeks, take a look at the traffic cams
http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/cctv/transtar/
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14042
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:12 pm

WWads wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Some areas in SE Texas and SW Louisiana truly did get devastated so I don't understand the logic of pretending these places don't exist on some notion that Houston is "tough" in this forum. I don't get the idea of pointing out your neighborhood is ok just to pretend nothing happened. That makes no sense. Especially considering the American taxpayer will be giving the Houston area hundreds of billions to bail the area out so we can do this all over again in 15 years.

Look, I know Houston will rebound but let's not pretend everything is just normal down there.

Speaking of which, is it realistic to think HOU will open by 17Z tomorrow? From reports on here I'm assuming IAH will open at 17Z Thursday. Or no?


My impression is that the landing lights, and other systems are at least partially wrecked at HOU. I think the terminal itself is fine, but who knows about the support equipment, fuel situation, etc. My guess would be no, or if it does, only a minimum of daylight ops.


WN says fuel availability is an issue at HOU. Can DL tanker back and forth to ATL?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
United1
Posts: 3877
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:16 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
.

Speaking of which, is it realistic to think HOU will open by 17Z tomorrow? From reports on here I'm assuming IAH will open at 17Z Thursday. Or no?


HOU is anyone's guess but IAH looks promising...

Things can change in a minute but UA has 1 flight to EWR, 4 to DEN and 4 to ORD scheduled on Thursday afternoon. Friday isn't exactly normal but a lot more destinations and flights are scheduled.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 892
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:16 pm

txjim wrote:
LAXdude1023 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Some important roads in the region will be shut down for weeks and many will not able to afford to travel due to their storm losses so could reduce demand out of HOU/IAH. Some offset could occur from recovery workers coming in and out.


What???? No way. There is no way any important road will be shut down in Houston one week from now let alone many weeks.

610 is clear already except on the East side. 10 has some high spots but its already well on its way down. 45 is pretty clear as well except for the areas South of Hobby. 290 is completely clear. The only one that is shut down in large amounts right now is 59 near Kingwood.

Im sorry, but all of this speculation about what Houston will look like in weeks and months from people outside Houston is garbage. I live in Willowbend next to Meyerland. My neighborhood didn't flood. Meyerland flooded hard. Yet today Meyerland is completely dry. The Brays Bayou is well within its banks. I took a drive from my home to the Galleria Area, Greenway Plaza, Downtown, and back to Sharpstown tonight and was able to do it with ease.

All this speculation is getting way the hell out of hand.


Thanks to all the Houston area people who are trying to bring some sense into this conversation. Even from up the road in Dallas, I know that the stories of doom are misinformed at best. It's a tragedy for sure but we've had challenges before and will have them again.

For those who think that the area will be shut down for weeks, take a look at the traffic cams
http://traffic.houstontranstar.org/cctv/transtar/


Not thinking it will be shut down for weeks but did you actually look at the cameras. Traffic looks very light for a metro of 6 million at 9AM CDT on a regular weekday. Also, one camera shows a I-10 reduced from 6 lanes to 2 for a gigantic pool of water at an interchange. Grassy areas still have giant pools of water next to I-10.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 892
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:26 pm

United1 wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
.

Speaking of which, is it realistic to think HOU will open by 17Z tomorrow? From reports on here I'm assuming IAH will open at 17Z Thursday. Or no?


HOU is anyone's guess but IAH looks promising...

Things can change in a minute but UA has 1 flight to EWR, 4 to DEN and 4 to ORD scheduled on Thursday afternoon. Friday isn't exactly normal but a lot more destinations and flights are scheduled.


That's awesome to hear. If UA is gearing up that's a great sign.
 
DfwRevolution
Posts: 9264
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:31 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:26 pm

LAXdude1023 wrote:
ltbewr wrote:
Some important roads in the region will be shut down for weeks and many will not able to afford to travel due to their storm losses so could reduce demand out of HOU/IAH. Some offset could occur from recovery workers coming in and out.


What???? No way. There is no way any important road will be shut down in Houston one week from now let alone many weeks.

610 is clear already except on the East side. 10 has some high spots but its already well on its way down. 45 is pretty clear as well except for the areas South of Hobby. 290 is completely clear. The only one that is shut down in large amounts right now is 59 near Kingwood.

Im sorry, but all of this speculation about what Houston will look like in weeks and months from people outside Houston is garbage. I live in Willowbend next to Meyerland. My neighborhood didn't flood. Meyerland flooded hard. Yet today Meyerland is completely dry. The Brays Bayou is well within its banks. I took a drive from my home to the Galleria Area, Greenway Plaza, Downtown, and back to Sharpstown tonight and was able to do it with ease.

All this speculation is getting way the hell out of hand.


Surely you appreciate that driving around while the majority of the city is still hunkered-down will not correlate to Houston's traffic once the floodwaters recede? It is not speculation that:

1. Several critical roadways suffered structural damage during the storms. Some of the embankment walls on BW8 failed due to ground water saturation. It would be miraculous if those emergency repairs can be conducted in less than 1 week.

2. Other bridges and overpasses will require TXDOT inspection before they return to service. That can probably be done inside of 1 week once safe to do so.

3. But, flood waters will not allow some roads to be opened for multiple weeks. TX-6 will be closed until Addicks is back below something like 97 feet. Our experience from the Memorial Day floods was that 6 was closed for something like 2-3 full weeks.
I have a three post per topic limit. You're welcome to have the last word.
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2848
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:41 pm

Surely you appreciate that driving around while the majority of the city is still hunkered-down will not correlate to Houston's traffic once the floodwaters recede? It is not speculation that:

1. Several critical roadways suffered structural damage during the storms. Some of the embankment walls on BW8 failed due to ground water saturation. It would be miraculous if those emergency repairs can be conducted in less than 1 week.

2. Other bridges and overpasses will require TXDOT inspection before they return to service. That can probably be done inside of 1 week once safe to do so.

3. But, flood waters will not allow some roads to be opened for multiple weeks. TX-6 will be closed until Addicks is back below something like 97 feet. Our experience from the Memorial Day floods was that 6 was closed for something like 2-3 full weeks.


Randomly looking at Transtar camera, seems like BW8 West near I-10 West is still a river, of course I-10 West near TX-6 (Close to Addicks/Barker Reservoir) are still seeing high water. I don't think 59 (or I-69, same road) east of IAH is fully re-open yet (Although 59/Will Clayton Pkwy is dry). Those would affect access to IAH from West/SW side of Houston.

But other than that, most major roads look clear and you can technically go to most places today. Of course not a ton of cars on the road - most business are probably still close at least until tomorrow, and school doesn't re-open until maybe next week with some of them being used as shelters.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
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jmw99ttu
Posts: 100
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 12:18 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:50 pm

I'm in Dallas, and most of my clients are in the Houston area. Everyone I have spoken to has been ordered to stay at home this week to keep roadways clear and people safe. Just because most freeways are open, many employers don't want to put their employees at unnecessary risk getting to work, especially for office workers with laptops who are working from home.

As far as air travel demand to Houston goes, my company had a large seminar planned for September 11-13. We have POSTPONED this because the host hotel had concerns about having rooms open as well as having some minor water damage that needs to be repaired. That's about 40 RT flights being canceled for that week. We're trying to reschedule for October now, as we have such a huge customer base in the city, it is important for us to have this event ASAP. We'll be back to having about a dozen people a week flying in and out of Houston in no time. Our customers aren't going anywhere and will be back to close to normal operating conditions next week. Houston might be down right now, but they will not be down for long. The city is too big and too important to the nation's economy not to bounce back. As much as it pains this Dallas boy to say nice things about H-Town, it's infuriating to read some of these outsiders doomsday posts about the city. I hope one of you in particular is banned from this site again soon as you make every thread here almost unreadable.
 
Woodreau
Posts: 1808
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2001 6:44 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:51 pm

Flying out of IAH yesterday, we were able to access IAH from 610 and the hardy toll road without driving through any flooded roadways. The only obstacle to accessing IAH is getting past the police cars which are positioned to prevent public access to the terminals.
Bonus animus sit, ab experientia. Quod salvatum fuerit de malis usu venit judicium.
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:32 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Randomly looking at Transtar camera, seems like BW8 West near I-10 West is still a river, of course I-10 West near TX-6 (Close to Addicks/Barker Reservoir) are still seeing high water. I don't think 59 (or I-69, same road) east of IAH is fully re-open yet (Although 59/Will Clayton Pkwy is dry). Those would affect access to IAH from West/SW side of Houston.


Beltway 8 and I-10 intersection is the same problem as with TX-6--it's right next to the reservoirs, in this case on the other side. And BW-8 is trenched probably 30 feet below I-10 at that point.

In any case, yes, many people have already and will continue to cancel trips in the coming weeks for a variety of reasons, including airport access and prioritizing home stabilization, etc.

When United moves 4 IAH-MTY flights to DEN and 4 IAH-MTY flights to ORD, then it'll be as cataclysmic as some on here think. But I highly doubt anything remotely close to that will happen because United has to make decisions for the long-term. They're either in, and they take it on the chin for awhile (as airlines have done countless times in a given market over long periods of time), or they're out. My tongue-in-cheek prediction is that it's all but certain AA will add DCA-IAH nonstop soon!

Quotes from a WSJ article this morning:

Houston’s economy will suffer a significant and perhaps unprecedented blow from Tropical Storm Harvey. But economists project that unlike New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina, Houston’s resurrection is nearly certain.

“This could be a speed bump, but this is not going to derail the Houston economy,” Mr. Kamins said.

Adam Kamins, an economist for Moody’s Analytics, estimates the price tag could be as much as $75 billion for southeast Texas. He predicts that the city could lose as much as $10 billion in economic output, and that businesses might suffer some $10 to $15 billion in property damage from flooding. Economic output could be flat for two months following the storm but would likely grow thereafter, he said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/with-its-e ... 1504085403
 
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BN727227Ultra
Posts: 633
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Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:38 pm

jmw99ttu wrote:
It's infuriating to read some of these outsiders doomsday posts about the city. I hope one of you in particular is banned from this site again soon as you make every thread here almost unreadable.


I was in Houston six weeks after Allison, and there was not a drop of water where you didn't expect water to be.
 
atl100million
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 1:28 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:50 pm

Cubsrule wrote:
WWads wrote:
My impression is that the landing lights, and other systems are at least partially wrecked at HOU. I think the terminal itself is fine, but who knows about the support equipment, fuel situation, etc. My guess would be no, or if it does, only a minimum of daylight ops.


WN says fuel availability is an issue at HOU. Can DL tanker back and forth to ATL?


Approx 1/4 of the jet fuel refinery capacity in the US is on the Texas Gulf Coast and another 1/4 on the Louisiana Gulf coast. Motiva (Shell etc) shut down the US' largest refinery this morning due to flooding. Since the refineries are in the areas that will be last to drain because they are closest to the coast, there is a risk that others will have to be shut down.

I'm not sure if an M80 can carry a full load of fuel for a roundtrip from Atlanta. It is possible that WN will have to tanker and add fuel stops on some flights from HOU for the early days of HOU operations.

DL's last arrival from ATL at HOU is at 11.07 pm and they are selling seats. Is it possible there will be temporary landing lights?
 
blockski
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 8:30 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:54 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
Some areas in SE Texas and SW Louisiana truly did get devastated so I don't understand the logic of pretending these places don't exist on some notion that Houston is "tough" in this forum. I don't get the idea of pointing out your neighborhood is ok just to pretend nothing happened. That makes no sense. Especially considering the American taxpayer will be giving the Houston area hundreds of billions to bail the area out so we can do this all over again in 15 years.

Look, I know Houston will rebound but let's not pretend everything is just normal down there.

Speaking of which, is it realistic to think HOU will open by 17Z tomorrow? From reports on here I'm assuming IAH will open at 17Z Thursday. Or no?


Nobody is pretending that everything is normal, or that nothing happened. Come on.

The property damage will indeed be massive. The costs will be enormous. But that won't be a huge impediment to getting many elements of life back to normal in relatively short order, such as reopening the airports and getting them up to speed.
 
izbtmnhd
Posts: 892
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:06 pm

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:00 pm

blockski wrote:
izbtmnhd wrote:
Some areas in SE Texas and SW Louisiana truly did get devastated so I don't understand the logic of pretending these places don't exist on some notion that Houston is "tough" in this forum. I don't get the idea of pointing out your neighborhood is ok just to pretend nothing happened. That makes no sense. Especially considering the American taxpayer will be giving the Houston area hundreds of billions to bail the area out so we can do this all over again in 15 years.

Look, I know Houston will rebound but let's not pretend everything is just normal down there.

Speaking of which, is it realistic to think HOU will open by 17Z tomorrow? From reports on here I'm assuming IAH will open at 17Z Thursday. Or no?


Nobody is pretending that everything is normal, or that nothing happened. Come on.

The property damage will indeed be massive. The costs will be enormous. But that won't be a huge impediment to getting many elements of life back to normal in relatively short order, such as reopening the airports and getting them up to speed.


I agree with most on here that there is always too much hype regarding any weather event. That being said: Are you sure some local people aren't saying things are fine around Houston? Just look upthread a bit.
 
traindoc
Posts: 351
Joined: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:35 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:01 pm

One reason I don't spend much time on A net is all the bickering! But here is my 2 cents about the situation. I grew up in Houston and I remember Hurricane Carla (1961) very well. Tremendous damage to Galveston, Texas City and Kemah. Mainly from storm surge and tornadoes! In Houston itself, lots of damage from 110 mph winds, but not huge amounts of rain. After the storm passed everyone got to work to fix or rebuild. Same has happened many times since due to various storms. Houston rebuilds and keeps on going! I now live in San Antonio, and last year we had 3 hail storms with over a 1 billion dollars worth of damge. This year we had a tornado in February with over $100 million in damages. (I am not even including the floods of the last 2 years.). We rebuild and keep going! That's Texas. Get over it!
 
zakuivcustom
Posts: 2848
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:32 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:04 pm

Well, random updates from Houston Airport Systems:

http://www.fly2houston.com/hou/alerts/

Don't have an re-opening time yet, but roadway wise, look like IAH is good to go, but pretty much all the Southern access to HOU (Mostly from BW8 South) are still a no-no (Telephone Road is definitely still flooded near BW8 South). Access from 45 South seems okay from Houston Transtar, although hard to tell the status of the frontage (or feeder, however you want to call them) road from the cameras.
Free Hong Kong! Free China!
 
jetero
Posts: 4457
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:45 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:04 pm

izbtmnhd wrote:
I agree with most on here that there is always too much hype regarding any weather event. That being said: Are you sure some local people aren't saying things are fine around Houston? Just look upthread a bit.


izbtmnhd, please give us the post numbers for anyone who said anything other than:

1) It IS a bad situation in certain parts of the City

2) It IS NOT in many other parts (in fact it was a nonevent in terms of damage for everyone I know except for 1, who live in all parts of the city)

3) Houston will rebound

Acknowledging (2) does not negate (1).

Acknowledging (1) does not negate (2).

What is absolutely flabbergasting to me at least is the number of people who keep on beating the (1) horse into the ground, especially from 1,000 miles away. And on top of that accusing us of "machismo," chest puffery, and deliberate ignorance of our fellow Houstonians who have suffered loss.

Maybe we are being positive and optimistic, although at least in my case it's not a conscious effort and I'm not distorting any facts, nor do I think any of my fellow Houstonians are. If we are being positive in the face of the disastrous cataclysm that many on here think it is, do you think the right thing to do is to spend a lot of energy trying to make us negative? If so, I'm not sure what to say.

In any case, what would you like us to say? Please tell me so we can put a stop to this.
Last edited by jetero on Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:15 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
capitalflyer
Posts: 560
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:43 am

Re: Hurricane Harvey and Houston airports

Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:11 pm

atl100million wrote:
Cubsrule wrote:
WWads wrote:
My impression is that the landing lights, and other systems are at least partially wrecked at HOU. I think the terminal itself is fine, but who knows about the support equipment, fuel situation, etc. My guess would be no, or if it does, only a minimum of daylight ops.


WN says fuel availability is an issue at HOU. Can DL tanker back and forth to ATL?


Approx 1/4 of the jet fuel refinery capacity in the US is on the Texas Gulf Coast and another 1/4 on the Louisiana Gulf coast. Motiva (Shell etc) shut down the US' largest refinery this morning due to flooding. Since the refineries are in the areas that will be last to drain because they are closest to the coast, there is a risk that others will have to be shut down.

I'm not sure if an M80 can carry a full load of fuel for a roundtrip from Atlanta. It is possible that WN will have to tanker and add fuel stops on some flights from HOU for the early days of HOU operations.

DL's last arrival from ATL at HOU is at 11.07 pm and they are selling seats. Is it possible there will be temporary landing lights?


I would think that flight will be cancelled soon. Both airports report they are closed until further notice. Neither of the scheduled flights for DL today are available for purchase online. These may be ferry flights.

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