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catiii
Posts: 3641
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

Re: Air France's deadly 340s

Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:48 pm

kabq737 wrote:
catiii wrote:
pipeafcr wrote:


No, looks more like an uninformed poster with a penchant for wild and unsubstantiated allegations not rooted in fact.

And yes, I mean YOU. Classic troll that you are, you make an off the wall post, and then disappear from the thread. Shame on you, and shame on A.net for not better policing this type of behavior,.

You're not referring to me are you? I was just trying to put a troll in his place...


Not at all. Referring to the OP.
 
kabq737
Posts: 742
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:06 am

Re: Air France's deadly 340s

Wed Aug 30, 2017 7:24 pm

catiii wrote:
kabq737 wrote:
catiii wrote:

No, looks more like an uninformed poster with a penchant for wild and unsubstantiated allegations not rooted in fact.

And yes, I mean YOU. Classic troll that you are, you make an off the wall post, and then disappear from the thread. Shame on you, and shame on A.net for not better policing this type of behavior,.

You're not referring to me are you? I was just trying to put a troll in his place...


Not at all. Referring to the OP.

Ok thanks for the clarification. :)
Been on: 320, 321, 333, 733, 73G, 738, 739, 744, 752, 763, 764, 772, 789, C208, CR7, CR9, BE20, MD83, MD88, MD90, E70, E75, E90, TRIM
Flown: SEEKER, C150M C172N, C172R, C172S, C182RG, DA40, PA-46
 
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euroflyer
Posts: 640
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:20 am

Re: Air France A340 issues?

Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:21 pm

On Nov 27th 2017 the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) released Safety Information Bulletin (SIB) 2017-20 stating:

The intent of this SIB is to raise awareness about a safety issue identified during an on-going investigation of a serious incident involving a 4-engine wide-body aeroplane. In this event, the aeroplane took-off from a limitative runway, near its maximum performance weight. The aeroplane needed a very long take-off run and, when passing the opposite runway threshold, was still below the minimum required height. The analysis of preliminary information gathered by the investigating authority, in cooperation with the affected operator and manufacturer, showed that slow aeroplane rotation rate was a main contributing factor to the event.

The preliminary findings of the investigation also highlighted that similar events had occurred at the same airport, involving another 4-engine wide-body aeroplane operator, and that slow rotation rates were applied in a significant number of take-offs.

Furthermore, the Agency identified one more event that occurred at another airport with a limitative runway, affecting a different type 4-engine wide-body aeroplane. As a consequence, pending the outcome of the full investigation, the Agency deems it appropriate to promptly address the issue of slow rotation rate on take-off in the abovementioned operational context.

The SIB recommends to operators of 4 engined aircraft as well as flight training institutions:

- identify whether slow rotation rate on take-off is a hazard in their operation (e.g. through the analysis of FDM, occurrence reports, training & checking activities);

- if a hazard is identified, assess the associated risks, in particular on airports with limitative runways; and

- if these risks are assessed as not acceptable, establish controls to mitigate the risks to an acceptable level. These controls may include the provision of ad-hoc training on rotation techniques based on aeroplane manufacturer’s operational documentation. The unintended introduction of additional risks (e.g. tail strikes) should also be considered when analysing possible mitigating measures; the involvement of the manufacturer may be useful in determining such measures.


The bulletin is obviously targetting LH as the "4-engine wide-body aeroplane operator". So, the event is not airline related, it's type.
Born to fly !
 
bennett123
Posts: 10051
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

Re: Air France A340 issues?

Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:15 pm

'Furthermore, the Agency identified one more event that occurred at another airport with a limitative runway, affecting a different type 4-engine wide-body aeroplane. As a consequence, pending the outcome of the full investigation, the Agency deems it appropriate to promptly address the issue of slow rotation rate on take-off in the abovementioned operational context'.

Are they saying this affects types other than A340?.
 
subramak1
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 10:21 pm

Re: Air France A340 issues?

Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:53 pm

bennett123 wrote:
'Furthermore, the Agency identified one more event that occurred at another airport with a limitative runway, affecting a different type 4-engine wide-body aeroplane. As a consequence, pending the outcome of the full investigation, the Agency deems it appropriate to promptly address the issue of slow rotation rate on take-off in the abovementioned operational context'.

Are they saying this affects types other than A340?.


Yes that is what it means in English.. wondering if it affects either A380 or B748?

Subu
 
Chaostheory
Posts: 1158
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:09 am

Re: Air France A340 issues?

Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:46 pm

subramak1 wrote:
bennett123 wrote:
'Furthermore, the Agency identified one more event that occurred at another airport with a limitative runway, affecting a different type 4-engine wide-body aeroplane. As a consequence, pending the outcome of the full investigation, the Agency deems it appropriate to promptly address the issue of slow rotation rate on take-off in the abovementioned operational context'.

Are they saying this affects types other than A340?.


Yes that is what it means in English.. wondering if it affects either A380 or B748?

Subu


I suspect they're referring to the 747. There have been countless tyre over speed events on the 747 due to poor rotation technique.
 
FlySSC
Posts: 5334
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2003 1:38 am

Re: Air France A340 issues?

Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:49 pm

Just coming from BOG to CDG last week.
The flight is again nonstop but with some restrictions : the Y cabin is limited to 174 PAX iso 224.
Take off performances are calculated based on 3500m runway iso 3800m existing.
LH also applies similar restrictions on theur A343 flights out of BOG ( performances calculated based on a 3650m runway iso 3800m)

AF will operate the B789 on CDG-BOG-CDG. starting March 2018, as a replacement of the A343.
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1980
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

Re: Air France A340 issues?

Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:39 am

FlySSC wrote:
AF will operate the B789 on CDG-BOG-CDG. starting March 2018, as a replacement of the A343.


Will the 789 eliminate slow rotation as an issue on take off?

And what exactly contstitutes slow rotation?

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