Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
SAAbaby
Topic Author
Posts: 33
Joined: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:24 pm

Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:25 am

It is an absolute shame and disgrace to see what has become of SAA - a once respectable and proud airline.

Continued politcal interference, sub-standard CEO's, an exodus of talented workforce and a general reflection of what is currently happening in South Africa, now sees the airline really scraping the barrel in order to stay in the air...

According to the article below, the airline will
- reduce flights on its profitable Johannesburg-Cape Town route by more than a third;
- It plans to cancel all flights to Port Elizabeth and East London, as well as flights to all central African destinations;
- It will get rid of at least 10 of the more than 50 planes in its fleet; and
- It will further cut back its already reduced international flight offering.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/ ... s-20170826

It pains me to say it, but I hope it will be put out of its misery sooner rather than later, so that a new, private carrier can take its place, which will cut out the ruling party's hold on South Africa's aviation industry, for the country's own good.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11137
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:11 am

Also mentioned in the article JNB-LHR will reduced from 2 daily down to 1 daily
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
readytotaxi
Posts: 7477
Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:09 am

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:15 am

SAAbaby wrote:
It is an absolute shame and disgrace to see what has become of SAA - a once respectable and proud airline.

Continued politcal interference, sub-standard CEO's, an exodus of talented workforce and a general reflection of what is currently happening in South Africa, now sees the airline really scraping the barrel in order to stay in the air...

According to the article below, the airline will
- reduce flights on its profitable Johannesburg-Cape Town route by more than a third;
- It plans to cancel all flights to Port Elizabeth and East London, as well as flights to all central African destinations;
- It will get rid of at least 10 of the more than 50 planes in its fleet; and
- It will further cut back its already reduced international flight offering.

http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/ ... s-20170826

It pains me to say it, but I hope it will be put out of its misery sooner rather than later, so that a new, private carrier can take its place, which will cut out the ruling party's hold on South Africa's aviation industry, for the country's own good.

Agree with all you have said, I just can't see the ruling party giving up control, they are not interested in the countries good, just their own.
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
Growing older, but not up.
 
DexSwart
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:08 am

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:06 am

I've said this before, and I'll say it again.

I've given up with the ANC's kleptocratic ways, and hamfisted approachs at "saving" SA.

My first ever flying memories were on an SA 743, and it will alway be dear to my heart.

I just want SA's end to be swift.

Cancelling flights to all Central African destinations will leave quite a whole.

I sense more 737's for Comair and more E-Jets for Airlink in the future...
Durban. Melbourne. Denver. Hong Kong.
 
grjplanes
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:52 am

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:52 am

Airlink have already applied for traffic rights to several of these destinations...Pointe Noire, Brazzaville, Libreville among them.
I believe they should transfer these destinations to Airlink to operate with E170/E190, perhaps actually at increased frequency which could be more beneficial for both SAA and Airlink for transfer traffic...not sure if the E-Jets can reach Douala. Drop Cotonou altogether. Give Ndola all to Airlink as well. Blantyre to Airlink. Either focus only Lilongwe in Malawi with daily flights or also transfer to Airlink.
Reduce other regional routes to rounded daily numbers ie: NBO daily iso 10 weekly, MRU daily...and use the A332/A333 then more on regional routes if demand is really there...in between overnight long-haul flights.
Domestic routes to cut also, ELS altogether, PLZ perhaps just reduce? Rest transfer to Mango...of which I believe they'll perhaps get more of the remaining 737-800s...I'd say of the last 6 738s in SAA fleet transfer another 2 to 4 to Mango and get rid of the rest. Get rid of 4 oldest A340-300s...just use A343 for PER and HKG flights still

That's some of the short-term immediate changes they should look at...fleet and route wise...of course it's much deeper than just that though...
 
User avatar
MoKa777
Posts: 1086
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:47 am

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:41 am

grjplanes wrote:
Airlink have already applied for traffic rights to several of these destinations...Pointe Noire, Brazzaville, Libreville among them.
I believe they should transfer these destinations to Airlink to operate with E170/E190, perhaps actually at increased frequency which could be more beneficial for both SAA and Airlink for transfer traffic...not sure if the E-Jets can reach Douala. Drop Cotonou altogether. Give Ndola all to Airlink as well. Blantyre to Airlink. Either focus only Lilongwe in Malawi with daily flights or also transfer to Airlink.
Reduce other regional routes to rounded daily numbers ie: NBO daily iso 10 weekly, MRU daily...and use the A332/A333 then more on regional routes if demand is really there...in between overnight long-haul flights.
Domestic routes to cut also, ELS altogether, PLZ perhaps just reduce? Rest transfer to Mango...of which I believe they'll perhaps get more of the remaining 737-800s...I'd say of the last 6 738s in SAA fleet transfer another 2 to 4 to Mango and get rid of the rest. Get rid of 4 oldest A340-300s...just use A343 for PER and HKG flights still

That's some of the short-term immediate changes they should look at...fleet and route wise...of course it's much deeper than just that though...


I agree!

Fantastic mini-analysis and remedial action, grjplanes.
Never be proud. Always be grateful.
 
shankly
Posts: 1401
Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2000 10:42 pm

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:55 am

qf789 wrote:
Also mentioned in the article JNB-LHR will reduced from 2 daily down to 1 daily

Cue BA double A380 to JNB? (if they have spare)
L1011 - P F M
 
airbazar
Posts: 10177
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:24 pm

grjplanes wrote:
Airlink have already applied for traffic rights to several of these destinations...Pointe Noire, Brazzaville, Libreville among them.
I believe they should transfer these destinations to Airlink to operate with E170/E190, perhaps actually at increased frequency which could be more beneficial for both SAA and Airlink for transfer traffic...not sure if the E-Jets can reach Douala. Drop Cotonou altogether. Give Ndola all to Airlink as well. Blantyre to Airlink. Either focus only Lilongwe in Malawi with daily flights or also transfer to Airlink.
Reduce other regional routes to rounded daily numbers ie: NBO daily iso 10 weekly, MRU daily...and use the A332/A333 then more on regional routes if demand is really there...in between overnight long-haul flights.
Domestic routes to cut also, ELS altogether, PLZ perhaps just reduce? Rest transfer to Mango...of which I believe they'll perhaps get more of the remaining 737-800s...I'd say of the last 6 738s in SAA fleet transfer another 2 to 4 to Mango and get rid of the rest. Get rid of 4 oldest A340-300s...just use A343 for PER and HKG flights still

That's some of the short-term immediate changes they should look at...fleet and route wise...of course it's much deeper than just that though...


That all sounds good but Airlink is not SAA. My limited understanding is that the domestic/regional routes are more profitable than the long-haul ones so how can cutting out the more profitable routes be better for SAA? IMO, In the end I agree with those who are calling for its demise. As long there's gov interference, SAA will never be a profitable airline.
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 11137
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 12:47 pm

shankly wrote:
qf789 wrote:
Also mentioned in the article JNB-LHR will reduced from 2 daily down to 1 daily

Cue BA double A380 to JNB? (if they have spare)


BA has already announced that they will be operating double daily A388 for NW17/18
Forum Moderator
 
grjplanes
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:52 am

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:15 pm

airbazar wrote:
grjplanes wrote:
Airlink have already applied for traffic rights to several of these destinations...Pointe Noire, Brazzaville, Libreville among them.
I believe they should transfer these destinations to Airlink to operate with E170/E190, perhaps actually at increased frequency which could be more beneficial for both SAA and Airlink for transfer traffic...not sure if the E-Jets can reach Douala. Drop Cotonou altogether. Give Ndola all to Airlink as well. Blantyre to Airlink. Either focus only Lilongwe in Malawi with daily flights or also transfer to Airlink.
Reduce other regional routes to rounded daily numbers ie: NBO daily iso 10 weekly, MRU daily...and use the A332/A333 then more on regional routes if demand is really there...in between overnight long-haul flights.
Domestic routes to cut also, ELS altogether, PLZ perhaps just reduce? Rest transfer to Mango...of which I believe they'll perhaps get more of the remaining 737-800s...I'd say of the last 6 738s in SAA fleet transfer another 2 to 4 to Mango and get rid of the rest. Get rid of 4 oldest A340-300s...just use A343 for PER and HKG flights still

That's some of the short-term immediate changes they should look at...fleet and route wise...of course it's much deeper than just that though...


That all sounds good but Airlink is not SAA. My limited understanding is that the domestic/regional routes are more profitable than the long-haul ones so how can cutting out the more profitable routes be better for SAA? IMO, In the end I agree with those who are calling for its demise. As long there's gov interference, SAA will never be a profitable airline.


Exactly why they should transfer to Airlink...while Airlink is not SAA, they do operate efficiently, profitably and keeps growing. They share SA-code and acts as feeder for SAA...so that way SAA don't lose these destinations altogether, where it can still act as feed for other SAA routes...as some of these feeds in to the "loss-making" long-haul routes. SAA do have a small share in Airlink also though...It used to be that the regional routes are the most profitable, but clearly not anymore...certain ones yes, I believe the closer ones (HRE, VFA, LVI, MPM, LUN, WDH, DAR, EBB etc) while others not so much, economies in West-Africa and Angola have gone down, thus the reduced capacity on LAD, LOS and cutting ABV...while from East Africa competition increased from ET, KQ and WB.

While the long-haul routes are the big money losers, they are also in a way important for the rest of the network, but some culling will also take place and have taken place already...recently GRU gone down from 11 weekly to 7...and as mentioned there's talk of reducing LHR to just 1 daily. Also the JFK and IAD routes have been amended and might be on the improving, sounds like the JNB-ACC-IAD route change was a better move. So to the above and previous mentioned changes I'd also think of long-haul changes as follow:
Reduce JNB-LHR to 1 daily A340-600 (from current 2 daily A332/A343), but try and lease out the 2nd LHR slot...not just let it go...
Daily JNB-JFK A346
Daily JNB-FRA A346
Daily JNB-GRU A333
Daily JNB-ACC/DKR-IAD A333/A332
Daily JNB-MUC A332
Daily JNB-HKG A343
Daily JNB-PER A343
Daily JNB-LOS A333/A332

There's a further 3 weekly JNB-ACC-ABJ (and I think 1 weekly JNB-ACC, which should just be gone) guess A343, so that can continue with either A332/A343

With this they can have the newer A330s all in full operation and let go of 4 A340-300s and perhaps even 1 or 2 older A340-600s, while some of these can then do some regional routes during day-time (some do) to VFA, HRE, LUN, NBO,MRU, LAD and CPT...so have more of the long-haul fleet being more active and efficiently used and 2 or 3 spare for maintenance and back-up.

While SAA is in no position to get a total brand new fleet in the next couple of years, they should just cut the fat and downsize more effectively. Bite the bullet, and get rid of some destinations, frequencies and aircraft in the short-term and then work on rebuilding. From what they've got now, the best fleet in a year's time should be roughly: 8 x A346, 4 x A343, 6 x A332, 5, x A333, 12 x A320 and 8 x A319.

But I do re-iterate...the problems is much deeper than this...it's more about the willingness and knowledge to make such decisions, and more importantly going about it the right way...
 
sw733
Posts: 5882
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:19 am

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 1:41 pm

SAAbaby wrote:
- It plans to cancel all flights to Port Elizabeth and East London, as well as flights to all central African destinations;

Wow, I always assumed the central African destinations did well financially.

Crazy to see Port Elizabeth, in particular, not being served by SAA.
 
ahj2000
Posts: 1235
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2014 5:34 pm

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:08 pm

Somebody get Comair some 737s and/or E-Jets fast!!
-Andrés Juánez
 
chrisp390
Posts: 722
Joined: Fri May 16, 2014 6:37 pm

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:47 pm

I know FedEx uses SAA and JNB to get packages to many countries throughout central and South Africa, any idea what happens once routes to these countries are cut?
 
berari
Posts: 916
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:47 pm

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 7:24 pm

chrisp390 wrote:
I know FedEx uses SAA and JNB to get packages to many countries throughout central and South Africa, any idea what happens once routes to these countries are cut?


They could use Ethiopian
 
LHRFlyer
Posts: 1040
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:50 pm

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Mon Aug 28, 2017 8:24 pm

Didn't BA increase LHR-JNB to three times daily once (with the third flight a day flight from JNB)?
 
grjplanes
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:52 am

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:48 am

LHRFlyer wrote:
Didn't BA increase LHR-JNB to three times daily once (with the third flight a day flight from JNB)?


Few years ago they increased LHR-JNB to 17 weekly yes...so some days 3 daily...but was all 747-400, before A380 entered the route.

So guess all in all their capacity is even higher now, at least Oct to Mar with double daily A380.

At the same time LHR-CPT is also double daily with 747-400, and between Jan and Febraury some days a 3rd daily flight...added to a 3 weekly seasonal LGW-CPT 777-200 flight also.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24713
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:24 pm

SA announced "network remediation"

JNB - Port Elizabeth and East London both reduced to 2x daily service
JNB - Luanda reduced 7 to 4x weekly plus equipment downgauge
JNB - Kinshasa reduced 5 to 4x weekly

Routes to Brazzaville, Pointe Noir, Libreville, Cotonou and Douala still being reviewed with "option to reduce operations or downgauge aircraft type."

http://newsroom.aviator.aero/south-afri ... mediation/
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
AF022
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 10:41 pm

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:04 pm

I can't understand why they fly to COO. Market is small and low yielding.
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4851
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:56 pm

mercure f-wtcc
 
rukundo
Posts: 234
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:10 am

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:34 am

It seems that from early Jan18 (around 7), South African Airways ends routes to Cameroon, Benin, Rep Of Congo & Gabon. Bookings are closed.

Here with Douala. On SAA, when i try to book to Douala, Libreville, Brazzaville and Cotonou, i have an Error message. Pointe Noire service seems to be already ended.

Image
 
User avatar
mercure1
Posts: 4851
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:13 am

Re: Embattled SAA dumping more routes.....

Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:12 pm

Media says Libreville, Cotonou and Douala service end in January 2018.
mercure f-wtcc

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos