scotron11
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IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:45 am

On IAGs website, they currently show 43 A350s as future deliveries with 57 options. I know 18 x A350-1000 are for BA, but where are the remaining 25 A350s going? And if their options are firmed, IAG would end up operating a total of 100 x A350s as a group, which would swamp their orders/options on their B787s by a wide margin!
 
Scorpio
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:52 am

scotron11 wrote:
I know 18 x A350-1000 are for BA, but where are the remaining 25 A350s going?


Nine are going to Aer Lingus, 16 to Iberia. All -900s.
 
Andy33
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:04 am

scotron11 wrote:
On IAGs website, they currently show 43 A350s as future deliveries with 57 options. I know 18 x A350-1000 are for BA, but where are the remaining 25 A350s going? And if their options are firmed, IAG would end up operating a total of 100 x A350s as a group, which would swamp their orders/options on their B787s by a wide margin!


Why would that surprise you? IB and EI are relatively small all-Airbus airlines, and adding a Boeing type into the mix would add significantly to costs there. BA on the other hand already had loads of both Airbus and Boeing planes at the time of IAG's creation, so replacing elderly Boeing types with Airbuses was an easy decision.
The 787 orders and options are mostly (but not entirely) pre-merger. The A350 orders are mostly post-merger. IAG wants its planes to be interchangeable between airlines so planes can be redeployed to meet changes in the market place, and use standardised cockpit, galley, and lavatory fittings across the entire fleet when possible - indeed they even retrofit A320 series, and have standard specifications for A330s and A350s delivered new to different group airlines. Only the seats, some bulkhead logos, and the livery vary between IAG airlines, and all of these can be changed very quickly if necessary.
 
pabloeing
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:56 am

IB first A350's are MSN 219 and 225....first delivery in June 2018
 
pabloeing
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:57 am

BA and IB needs more A350's than 18 and 16 respectly.........we will see more orders
 
TheGeordielad
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:01 am

pabloeing wrote:
BA and IB needs more A350's than 18 and 16 respectly.........we will see more orders

How do BA need more A350s?
 
StTim
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:03 am

I think the assumption is that additional -1000's will be required to replace the final 747's.

Of course BA could buy 777x - but that would go against the commonality argument described above.
 
DartHerald
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:15 am

I know the BA 777-200 fleet is set to remain for a good few years yet, but they'll have to be replaced eventually and the A350 would be the obvious candidate.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:33 am

pabloeing wrote:
BA and IB needs more A350's than 18 and 16 respectly.........we will see more orders


At least 2 more for IB as compensation for Level's A330s would be nice indeed
 
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keesje
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:02 am

BA has ~ 58 777s and 41 744s in service and 18 A350s on order.

An order for another 25 A350-1000 at Farnborough would highly un-surprising.

BA negotiated with Boeing during 2012/-13 "777 Emiratisation discussion" and ordered the A350 around the time Boeing launched the 777X.

https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=537611
https://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=564109
"Never mistake motion for action." Ernest Hemingway
 
pabloeing
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:08 am

A350-1000 and B777-9X is perfect for BA routes......
 
Andy33
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:08 am

DartHerald wrote:
I know the BA 777-200 fleet is set to remain for a good few years yet, but they'll have to be replaced eventually and the A350 would be the obvious candidate.


Certainly that's true.
Given IAG's stated intention to keep 772s in service for 30 years, they'd need (just as replacements):
1 in 2025
1 in 2026
11 in 2027
4 in 2028
10 in 2029
10 in 2030
4 in 2031
and 4 in 2039, though you'd expect Airbus and Boeing to both be offering something different by then, wouldn't you?
 
pabloeing
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:09 am

Jayafe wrote:
pabloeing wrote:
BA and IB needs more A350's than 18 and 16 respectly.........we will see more orders


At least 2 more for IB as compensation for Level's A330s would be nice indeed

IB have 2 more A332 on order from January 2018 ( MSN 1835 and 1852) .......LEVEL have 3 A330 more on order from June 2018
 
Andy33
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:09 am

Although a-net members keep telling us the 779 is perfect for BA, so far IAG is displaying very little interest in them.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:26 am

Andy33 wrote:
Although a-net members keep telling us the 779 is perfect for BA, so far IAG is displaying very little interest in them.


And IAG is tending more and more to leverage via Airbus (for commonality) ....
 
scotron11
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:54 am

Andy33 wrote:
Although a-net members keep telling us the 779 is perfect for BA, so far IAG is displaying very little interest in them.


BA are very conservative on their 744s and 773ers in that their seating is less than 300 in total. Even their A380s only have 469 seats, which is a lot less than the high density AF cram into their 777ers! So I can see validity in their uninterest in the 779 at this time.
 
mjoelnir
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:08 am

If IAG takes the above mentioned numbers of A350, 43 orders and 57 options, their will be little space for the 777-9 at BA.

Regarding the 777-200/200ER, I take the 30 years usage with a grain of salt. A stated intention can change fast. A small movement upwards in oil price and the gas guzzlers could become a liability. A 20% fuel burn advantage with new frames is a big number.
The frames cover a wide range in age. The oldest delivered in 1996 and the youngest in 2009. From 22 years old to 8 years old.
I can well imagine the 777-200 not reaching the full 30 years usage and being replaced with A350-900 starting in a few years.
 
theginge
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:31 am

Jayafe wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Although a-net members keep telling us the 779 is perfect for BA, so far IAG is displaying very little interest in them.


And IAG is tending more and more to leverage via Airbus (for commonality) ....


There is the commonality argument but I don't think that would stop them ordering the 777X for BA if it deemed it was the best fit, yes IB wouldn't have them but the commonality is in the A350's. If say BA has 30 A350's they aren't suddenly going to give all 30 to another IAG airline, maybe a small number would move around the group. That would mean an order for 25 777X would not be infeasible as they already have the A350's to share around. Eg BA needed to reduce by 3 aircraft, they would move the A350's and keep the 777s that they couldn't move.
 
Kadish
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:42 am

I think Ib will need more than just 16 350. Its been salid that some 330 wil be remplaced with this 330 and Laso that Ib will order 350-1000 todo.
 
airbazar
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:50 am

Andy33 wrote:
Why would that surprise you? IB and EI are relatively small all-Airbus airlines, and adding a Boeing type into the mix would add significantly to costs there. BA on the other hand already had loads of both Airbus and Boeing planes at the time of IAG's creation, so replacing elderly Boeing types with Airbuses was an easy decision.

Small relative to BA but at 37 frames and growing, IB's long haul fleet is anything but small. Historically, one of their biggest handicaps was the lack of a "small" long haul airplane. They corrected that when they started ordering A332's. I think a fleet of 787's and especially the 788 would be perfect as an A332 replacement, but obviously that's not happening for a long time as the A332's are still very new.
 
astuteman
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:18 pm

airbazar wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Why would that surprise you? IB and EI are relatively small all-Airbus airlines, and adding a Boeing type into the mix would add significantly to costs there. BA on the other hand already had loads of both Airbus and Boeing planes at the time of IAG's creation, so replacing elderly Boeing types with Airbuses was an easy decision.

Small relative to BA but at 37 frames and growing, IB's long haul fleet is anything but small. Historically, one of their biggest handicaps was the lack of a "small" long haul airplane. They corrected that when they started ordering A332's. I think a fleet of 787's and especially the 788 would be perfect as an A332 replacement, but obviously that's not happening for a long time as the A332's are still very new.


Would the A338 not be equally "perfect" as an A332 replacement?
Given that it's essentially the same aircraft with 95% commonality, but considerably better range and fuel burn?

Rgds
 
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Polot
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:24 pm

scotron11 wrote:
Andy33 wrote:
Although a-net members keep telling us the 779 is perfect for BA, so far IAG is displaying very little interest in them.


BA are very conservative on their 744s and 773ers in that their seating is less than 300 in total. Even their A380s only have 469 seats, which is a lot less than the high density AF cram into their 777ers! So I can see validity in their uninterest in the 779 at this time.

Well that is because BA is very premium heavy. Up to you to decide if equipping planes with 14 F seats, 50+ J seats (747s 70+), and 30+ PE seats all in the same plane is being "conservative." Their A380s have as almost as many premium seats as BA's A320s have seats period.
 
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frigatebird
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:28 pm

Scorpio wrote:
scotron11 wrote:
I know 18 x A350-1000 are for BA, but where are the remaining 25 A350s going?


Nine are going to Aer Lingus, 16 to Iberia. All -900s.

Is this still the case? Heard rumors the A359s ordered for EI will now go to IB too.

Don't think the 777-9 will be ordered by IAG for BA. Future widebody fleet will be 787, A350 and A380.

What I'm wondering about is the A330neo. IAG have ordered A330ceo even after the launch of the A330neo, so it looks like IAG is neither interested in 777X nor A330neo.

Of course the A330s now used by Level, IB and EI are pretty young. But I heard some people at this forum say the A333 may be too small for EI. If the rumor is true and EI's A350's will go to IB, could we see IAG exercise some of their options on 787-10 for EI?
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jbs2886
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:48 pm

frigatebird wrote:
Scorpio wrote:
scotron11 wrote:
I know 18 x A350-1000 are for BA, but where are the remaining 25 A350s going?


Nine are going to Aer Lingus, 16 to Iberia. All -900s.

Is this still the case? Heard rumors the A359s ordered for EI will now go to IB too.

Don't think the 777-9 will be ordered by IAG for BA. Future widebody fleet will be 787, A350 and A380.

What I'm wondering about is the A330neo. IAG have ordered A330ceo even after the launch of the A330neo, so it looks like IAG is neither interested in 777X nor A330neo.

Of course the A330s now used by Level, IB and EI are pretty young. But I heard some people at this forum say the A333 may be too small for EI. If the rumor is true and EI's A350's will go to IB, could we see IAG exercise some of their options on 787-10 for EI?


Personally I think the 787-10 would be perfect for EI (A339 probably is, too).
 
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Jayafe
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:52 pm

9 extra A359s would be a considerable expansion for IB, maybe too much
 
Kadish
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:02 pm

It depends how conservative thet are.
I can see a lot of opportunities in Africa, Asia and North América...just to mención a few San Francisco, Washington, cape town, Toronto, increase frequncies in China and Japan...
 
mjoelnir
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:34 pm

If you look at the complete fleet of IAG there are no Boeing wide body frames but at BA. BA is flying 24 787 and has 18 more 787 on order. The replacement cycle at BA, looking at the 767 and 747, is shorter than 30 years. At around 25 years of age most of them have been replaced. So in the not to far future we will see the 747 and the 767 going out, and IMO we will see the 777-200 and the oldest 777-200ER being retired.
Most of the A330 in the different IAG fleets are young, only the A330-200 at Aer Lingus are reaching 15 years. So the only Airbus wide body frames up for replacement at IAG are the A340-600 at Iberia and that not because of age but because of fuel burn. I am pretty sure that those will be replaced with A350-1000.
So we up for replacement are 36 747-400, 7 767 and over time 46 777-200/200ER, that makes together with the A340-600, 106 wide body aircraft to be replaced.
There are 18 787 still to be delivered and 43 A350 on order. If the 53 frames options for A350 are firmed, that would cover the number of frames needed for all IAG fleets in the coming years.
 
Fiend
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:45 pm

With BA now being part of AIG and AiG favouring Airbus aircraft over Boeing then it's highly unlikely after the 787's are delivered that there will be any further Boeing orders.
BAC 1-11, A300, A320, A321, A330, A340, A350, A380, B737, B747, B757, B777, B787, L1011, Fokker 100, ATR 72, MD83
 
Breathe
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:05 pm

mjoelnir wrote:
If you look at the complete fleet of IAG there are no Boeing wide body frames but at BA. BA is flying 24 787 and has 18 more 787 on order. The replacement cycle at BA, looking at the 767 and 747, is shorter than 30 years. At around 25 years of age most of them have been replaced. So in the not to far future we will see the 747 and the 767 going out, and IMO we will see the 777-200 and the oldest 777-200ER being retired.
Most of the A330 in the different IAG fleets are young, only the A330-200 at Aer Lingus are reaching 15 years. So the only Airbus wide body frames up for replacement at IAG are the A340-600 at Iberia and that not because of age but because of fuel burn. I am pretty sure that those will be replaced with A350-1000.
So we up for replacement are 36 747-400, 7 767 and over time 46 777-200/200ER, that makes together with the A340-600, 106 wide body aircraft to be replaced.
There are 18 787 still to be delivered and 43 A350 on order. If the 53 frames options for A350 are firmed, that would cover the number of frames needed for all IAG fleets in the coming years.

The 767's are currently due to leave next year.

Unless I'm making this up in my head, I'm sure I read a rumour or speculation piece, that there was talk that Aer Lingus were going to switch their A350 order to A330neo's in the same way TAP did. :confused:
 
Breathe
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:06 pm

Fiend wrote:
With BA now being part of AIG and AiG favouring Airbus aircraft over Boeing then it's highly unlikely after the 787's are delivered that there will be any further Boeing orders.

BA are definitely not part of the American International Group. ;)

They do have a lot of 787 options, so its not that highly unlikely they will order any more Boeing aircraft.
 
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Polot
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:07 pm

Breathe wrote:
Unless I'm making this up in my head, I'm sure I read a rumour or speculation piece, that there was talk that Aer Lingus were going to switch their A350 order to A330neo's in the same way TAP did. :confused:

Rumors/speculation that they were going to do so, but it never happened. Rumors now are that the first A350s (deliveries starting next year) for EI have been re-allotted to IB though, with EI continuing to take A330s. We will just have to wait and see until something official either way is announced.

Breathe wrote:
They do have a lot of 787 options, so its not that highly unlikely they will order any more Boeing aircraft.

Indeed. You have people here who convince themselves it is viable for EI/IB to operate a handful of A380s because they could be in the same configuration and BA operates some, yet instantly dismiss the possibility that 787s may someday operate in IB/EI's liveries.
 
CX747
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:19 pm

IAG has a large number of "options" for the A350. The need at BA for a 747 or 777 replacement at this time is not required. They have a requisite number of 787s and A350s on firm order.

IF the A350 options are required then they will be used. That's quite a number of years down the line. We shall see what actually turns out. If you remember, BA was going to operate more than 57 747-400s in the late 90s. That was the "plan" until they swapped their last order over to the 777.

No one truly knows if IAG will be around in 5 years or if BA will still be an operating unit. Plus, we have no idea what Boeing or Airbus has up their sleeves. What if the Boeing MOM becomes reality and BA finds it to be an awesome 747/777 replacement? A right sized airframe for the routes they are operating in the 2020s? The proper replacement for the 747/777 fleet will be focused on when that time comes. Making a decision for 2025 now is way to far ahead. Time will tell.
"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
 
pabloeing
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:31 pm

Will see the B777X in the BA fleet.......is the perfect plane for the B744 replacement.....and dont forget that Ba love the B77W performance.
 
StTim
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:41 pm

I love how confident people are on behalf of airline fleet planning processes.
 
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shamrock350
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:52 pm

The A350s for Aer Lingus haven't gone to Iberia, the actual first A350 destined for Aer Lingus has been reallocated by Airbus to Vietnam Airlines. As it currently stands the Aer Lingus A350 is still on the cards but with no delivery time frame, eventually Aer Lingus will have to replace the A330 fleet and unless IAG orders A330neos, it'll be the A350.
 
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Stitch
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:53 pm

StTim wrote:
I think the assumption is that additional -1000's will be required to replace the final 747's.


I would not rule out additional 787-10s for that role, as well.


Andy33 wrote:
Although a-net members keep telling us the 779 is perfect for BA, so far IAG is displaying very little interest in them.


Well we also have IAG's CEO back in 2013 during the 777X's development saying the 777-9 would be perfect for BA. He may have changed his mind since, but I expect he continues to keep an eye on it.


Polot wrote:
You have people here who convince themselves it is viable for EI/IB to operate a handful of A380s because they could be in the same configuration and BA operates some, yet instantly dismiss the possibility that 787s may someday operate in IB/EI's liveries.


Which is doubly amusing when you consider that in 2013 IAG secured A350 and 787 options specifically for IB should their reorganization plan prove successful and warrant additional capacity be added to the airline. So again, perhaps IB's reorganization didn't work out or perhaps IAG have changed their minds about the 787's suitability for IB, but they did feel strongly enough about it once to commit to securing options for it so I would not rule-out that they continue to keep an eye on it's suitability for the airline.
 
StTim
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:57 pm

Stitch wrote:
StTim wrote:
I think the assumption is that additional -1000's will be required to replace the final 747's.


I would not rule out additional 787-10s for that role, as well.



True - BA fly a lot of TATL where ultimate range isn't required.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:55 pm

Polot wrote:
You have people here who convince themselves it is viable for EI/IB to operate a handful of A380s because they could be in the same configuration and BA operates some, yet instantly dismiss the possibility that 787s may someday operate in IB/EI's liveries.


An airline like IB, which has move from a mixed fleet to a strong Airbus-only one, won't put its livery back on a 787. Too much investment, too much maintenance, too many policies, too much hassle, when can simply add more A330s and A350s (8/9/10) and share all the existing infrastructure and staff of the company. So yeah, I instantly dismiss it.
 
hkcanadaexpat
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:06 am

The 767s are being replaced by A321s for regional flying within Europe. No widebodies scheduled to replace those 7 frames.
 
Andy33
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:29 am

Breathe wrote:
They do have a lot of 787 options, so its not that highly unlikely they will order any more Boeing aircraft.


There are 4 788s (one of which is due for delivery this month), 2 789s, and 12 787-10s on order. 787 options not yet converted to orders total 6. Not "a lot" by most standards. It certainly wouldn't be a surprise to see the options converted to orders, but after that things may get a lot harder for Boeing's sales force.
 
Fiend
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:46 am

Breathe wrote:
Fiend wrote:
With BA now being part of AIG and AiG favouring Airbus aircraft over Boeing then it's highly unlikely after the 787's are delivered that there will be any further Boeing orders.

BA are definitely not part of the American International Group. ;)

They do have a lot of 787 options, so its not that highly unlikely they will order any more Boeing aircraft.


Well spotted on the spelling mistake..... I mistyped IAG
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olle
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:14 am

There is the Brexit variable to add to this... I have a sensation that IAG forced to have 51% EU ownership, problem for BA to fly to EU, in combination with London as the main financial center of EU will become one of 3 European financial centers will change the balance inside IAG dramatically the next 10 years.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:20 am

Jayafe wrote:
An airline like IB, which has move from a mixed fleet to a strong Airbus-only one, won't put its livery back on a 787. Too much investment, too much maintenance, too many policies, too much hassle, when can simply add more A330s and A350s (8/9/10) and share all the existing infrastructure and staff of the company. So yeah, I instantly dismiss it.


If you look at the IAG airlines as individual airlines a small Boeing fleet doesn't seem sensible, but IB, BA, EI, VG and LEVEL (+ future additions) aren't truly separate. Support, infrastructure, training and planning are streamlined. IAG have publically said that 1-3 A380 could be operated by EI and/or IB. The 787 seems far less far fetched.
 
RalXWB
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:22 am

IB is proudly all Airbus and so is EI mostly. Alaska gets praised by a certain squad here how great it is to be proudly all Boeing so it should be OK for IAG, too... In the end IAG knows what is best for them.
 
r2rho
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:02 am

What I'm wondering about is the A330neo. IAG have ordered A330ceo even after the launch of the A330neo, so it looks like IAG is neither interested in 777X nor A330neo.

I wouldn't conclude that. IB & EI needed A330's immediately; so NEO was never on the table, as they could not wait. NEO is likely to stay off the table for a while for IB & EI as those A330's are still quite new, but it could be interesting for Level (either directly or indirectly - ie IB getting NEOs and passing more CEO's to Level.

9 extra A359s would be a considerable expansion for IB, maybe too much

Not really. IB's long-haul fleet has only now recovered its pre-restructuring size. Those A350's won't come all at once - just 2 in 2018 for now. If IB retires A346's in parallel, it won't be an expansion at all. If IB keeps its A346's until end of their lives, it'll be just a few a/c per year, which is even conservative.

IB, BA, EI, VG and LEVEL (+ future additions) aren't truly separate. Support, infrastructure, training and planning are streamlined

Indeed, and with the common cabin equipment on all new a/c, all they have to do to shift them to another airline is change the branding and repaint, so IAG has a lot of flexibility. See the 2 IB's flying for Level, for example.
 
pabloeing
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:13 am

One of the keys will be the B787-10 performance in BA network.......is the plane with the best CASM at this moment, and would be a game changer in his mind
 
LupineChemist
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:14 am

r2rho wrote:
I wouldn't conclude that. IB & EI needed A330's immediately; so NEO was never on the table, as they could not wait. NEO is likely to stay off the table for a while for IB & EI as those A330's are still quite new, but it could be interesting for Level (either directly or indirectly - ie IB getting NEOs and passing more CEO's to Level.


As you mention, the daily reminder that IB didn't cede anything to Level, at least not yet since Level IS IB. That said, they probably had their arm twisted a bit by IAG corporate to run those flights and they'd like to use that equipment elsewhere. It will be interesting to see how IB is compensated when Level spins off into its own AOC. But for the time being, Level 332s are still part of the IB fleet.

r2rho wrote:
Indeed, and with the common cabin equipment on all new a/c, all they have to do to shift them to another airline is change the branding and repaint, so IAG has a lot of flexibility. See the 2 IB's flying for Level, for example.


Also true, but the commonality is exclusively Airbus. Iberia MRO operations just can't handle Boeing (A BA777 I was to travel on had a tire blow at MAD and it was several hours before they could even figure out where to get a spare). The Boeing ops are exclusively with BA so while it wouldn't be more for heavy maintenance at CWL between airlines, it would be quite a bit more logistics to deal with routine stuff at MAD, DUB and BCN which are currently just not equipped to handle that sort of maintenance.
 
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Channex757
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:35 am

RalXWB wrote:
IB is proudly all Airbus and so is EI mostly. Alaska gets praised by a certain squad here how great it is to be proudly all Boeing so it should be OK for IAG, too... In the end IAG knows what is best for them.

EI only have the 757s from Boeing, and they aren't owned by them. As EI will be taking a punt on the A321LR those will be returning to Air Contractors, probably to be converted to freighters.

EI have no other Boeings so taking on 787s would be difficult. No capability for pilots, line maintenance, engines etc. A complete non-starter for an airline looking to keep a tight rein on costs.
 
BrianDromey
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:08 am

LupineChemist wrote:
Also true, but the commonality is exclusively Airbus. Iberia MRO operations just can't handle Boeing (A BA777 I was to travel on had a tire blow at MAD and it was several hours before they could even figure out where to get a spare). The Boeing ops are exclusively with BA so while it wouldn't be more for heavy maintenance at CWL between airlines, it would be quite a bit more logistics to deal with routine stuff at MAD, DUB and BCN which are currently just not equipped to handle that sort of maintenance.


I think you are taking an overly simplistic approach to this. MAD is just a line station for BA, if IB were to introduce the 787 a maintenance programme could easily be enacted. VN, for example, has orders for 24 A350s and 19 787s. Mixed A350/787 fleets are going to be very common, at sizes much smaller than the IAG fleet. Commonality is great, but if the aircraft is wrong it counts for very little. If commonality could right all wrongs airlines like SQ, CX, EK, EY, QR wouldn't be operating the 77W, they'd have fleets of 345/346's. VS wouldn't have the 787 either.

IAG has the advantage of flexibly assigning aircraft to its various operating units. For example G-EUUO to G-EUOP were initially IB A320s, but delivered to BA. IF IB can use the 787 well on its route structure then there is every chance they will be operated by IB. IB may feel that the A359 offers them better performance than the 787-10, especially to South America. Or BA may be able to demonstrate that for IAG as a whole the best return on the incitement would be on their US and Middle East routes.
 
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Jayafe
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Re: IAG A350 Orders/Options

Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:21 am

BrianDromey wrote:
I think you are taking an overly simplistic approach to this.


I think you are twisting the reality to fit your desires.

IB >> Airbus only
EI >> Airbus only except some B757 for TATL (actually operated by Partners ASL)
VY >> Airbus only
Level >> Airbus only

Still cant understand how some people see realistic a change of strategy so massive to mix the fleet in a group that is doing well without it, spending an amusing amount of resources to reinvent the wheel. I get you are big fans of Boeing, but there is simply no business case in fixing something that is not broken just for the joy of seeing those birds sold.

Commonality has some advantages, a mixed fleet has others. In this case, the decision has been made according to the needs of the group and what works better in their routes/services.

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