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FromCDGtoSYD
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Qantas' ex European Network

Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:27 pm

With all the talk around QF1/2 moving back to Singapore I was left wondering how big their network was under their JV with BA.
Does anyone remember their european destinations ?
Where did they flew from in Asia (I think they flew from BKK, SIN and HKG to LHR but I don't know how they flew to CDG or FRA) ?
And lastly, does anybody know the flight numbers and timings ?

Thank you for your help
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:10 pm

At the height of the joint venture with BA you had seven flights to the UK. QF was using all the Australian rights to the UK, while BA had 75% of the UK rights (VS had the remainder with its daily LHR-HKG-SYD flight).

In 1998 just before the JV got really under way BA had three flights to Australia: -

BA009/BA010 LHR-BKK-SYD-MEL
BA011/BA012 LHR-SIN-PER
BA015/BA016 LHR-SIN-BNE

In Summer 1999 the SYD-MEL tag was dropped due to the JV making QF9/QF10 (BA7309/BA7310) the better option being one-stop via SIN to MEL. Interestingly in 1999, as the Asian economic crisis continued BA's five time weekly LHR-KUK-CGK flight (BA033/BA034) was switched to only continue to Jakarta twice a week and to Sydney three times a week.

By Summer 2001 the SIN-PER leg had gone but BA was now operating LHR-SIN-MEL five times a week (BA017/BA018), with a twice weekly SIN terminator (BA011/BA012). PER was served under the JV by connecting onto QF's 767 operated flights from SIN. I think by this time CGK was covered by the JV, again via SIN (The flight was SIN-CGK-SYD).

BA017/BA018 was dropped by BA sometime early in the 2000s when the UK-India bilateral was relaxed. BA said the MEL route was profitable but they felt the 744s used on the route could be more profitably deployed adding additional Indian capacity. Operating LHR-SIN as a terminator (back as BA011/BA012) gave them the 744 to do that. (BA went twice daily on LHR-DEL and LHR-BOM).

I think BA returned to LHR-SIN-MEL in the early 2010s but it was dropped fairly quickly. BA015/BA016 also switched at some point to be LHR-SIN-SYD, as it is today.

I'm sure someone will have a lot more detail on dates!

On the flip side Qantas had: -

QF1/QF2 SYD-BKK-LHR
QF9/QF10 MEL-SIN-LHR

You later had QF add QF31/QF32 SYD-SIN-LHR and then MEL-HKG-LHR (can't recall the flight numbers).

The daily SYD-SIN-FRA flight was also part of the JV - I flew on in in 1999 after connecting in on BA from MAN. I can't recall if MEL-BKK-FCO (QF15/QF16) was also part of the JV, although that was generally was flown three times a week.

QF also added SYD-SIN-CDG three times a week (QF17/QF18) but was prevented from the bilateral with France from going daily, which I recall it was very interested in doing.
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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FlyCaledonian
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:28 pm

Summer 1997
BA009 LHR dep 22:25 - BKK arr 16:10 / dep 17:30 - SYD arr 05:20 / dep 06:35 - BNE arr 08:15 (or MEL arr 08:10)
BA010 BNE dep 12:30 (or MEL dep 12:40) - SYD arr 14:00 / dep 15:15 - BKK arr 21:45 / dep 23:00 - LHR arr 05:20

BA011 LHR dep 12:00 - SIN arr 08:05 / dep 09:20 - PER arr 14:10
BA012 PER dep 16:55 - SIN arr 22:00 / dep 23:15 - LHR arr 05:55

QF1 SYD dep 16:45 - BKK arr 23:10 / dep 00:30 - LHR arr 06:50
QF2 LHR dep 13:05 - BKK arr 06:50 / dep 08:05 - SYD arr 19:45

QF9 MEL dep 16:00 - SIN arr 21:35 / dep 22:50 - LHR arr 05:30
QF10 LHR dep 22:30 - SIN arr 18:30 / dep 20:00 - MEL arr 04:55
Let's Go British Caledonian!
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:33 pm

Belgrade, Amsterdam, Athens, Zurich were some own routes.
 
zkeoj
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Thu Aug 31, 2017 11:14 pm

Way back they had a 2-stop connection. I flew

2 AUG 1990 SYD SIN QF 005 15:30 21:10 B 747-300
2 AUG 1990 SIN BAH QF 005 22:30 01:00* B 747-300
3 AUG 1990 BAH FRA QF 005 02:00 06:50 B 747-300

The 747-400, of course, elimated the need for the 2nd stop in BAH.

On the way out we flew FRA-BKK-SYD on LH, who had the B744 on that route already, so only had one stop.

Cheers
micha
 
jupiter2
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:06 am

CanadaFair wrote:
Belgrade, Amsterdam, Athens, Zurich were some own routes.



Not sure about Zurich, but there has been London, Manchester, Amsterdam, Paris, Vienna, Belgrade, Rome, Istanbul, Athens, Frankfurt.
 
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Arq
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:32 am

A few that I knew of.

in 1993, QF81/82 fly SYD-ADL-SIN-BKK-LHR-MAN
And I also recall QF 5/6 fly SYD-SIN-BKK-FRA around the same time.

I think I got their Bangkok timetable of 1993 era somewhere in my house. Will get back for more info if I can find it.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:33 am

FlyCaledonian wrote:
You later had QF add QF31/QF32 SYD-SIN-LHR and then MEL-HKG-LHR (can't recall the flight numbers).

The daily SYD-SIN-FRA flight was also part of the JV - I flew on in in 1999 after connecting in on BA from MAN. I can't recall if MEL-BKK-FCO (QF15/QF16) was also part of the JV, although that was generally was flown three times a week.

QF also added SYD-SIN-CDG three times a week (QF17/QF18) but was prevented from the bilateral with France from going daily, which I recall it was very interested in doing.

Thanks for the nice summary FlyCaledonian. Just to add to your points, MEL-HKG-LHR's flight number was QF29/30, the flight number currently used on MEL-HKG runs. I also don't recall any BA movements in MEL in 2010's, other than diversions.

Michael
 
NinjaT
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:12 am

Hi. My first post on the site!

In November 1973 I travelled London/Rome/Bahrain/Singapore/Sydney on VH-EBA which was the first 747 in the fleet.

The return was Sydney/Melbourne (fuel strike in Sydney so we topped up the tanks!) / Singapore/ Bahrain/Frankfurt/ London.

My first ever flight which was quite an adventure.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:36 am

Hi all

This is certainly an interesting discussion!

A few additions from me. First, I think this will cover BA's early-00s return to Melbourne:

viewtopic.php?t=53823

I'd also add that BA dropped MEL for the last time to date on 25 March 2006:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british- ... rne-1.html

The reason? The usual excuses by BA of "profitability". I've read several anecdotes that it was really about asset utilisation, given the number of frames needed to gu to MEL. I think this may be what was referred to upthread.

Finally another a.net thread which may be informative:

viewtopic.php?t=571605

Overall, some really interesting info on here; I'll follow this discussion with pleasure.

Thanks.
 
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TheLion
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 10:41 am

NinjaT wrote:
Hi. My first post on the site!

In November 1973 I travelled London/Rome/Bahrain/Singapore/Sydney on VH-EBA which was the first 747 in the fleet.

The return was Sydney/Melbourne (fuel strike in Sydney so we topped up the tanks!) / Singapore/ Bahrain/Frankfurt/ London.

My first ever flight which was quite an adventure.


Welcome to a.net!

An interesting post to begin too.

Best
The Lion
 
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vhqpa
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:08 am

Some that come to mind.

Early-Mid 2000s QF17/18 Ran 3 weekly PER-SIN-CDG 744 after CDG was dropped this briefly became PER-SIN-LHR With I think a flight number change to QF15/16.

QF29/30 started off SYD-HKG-LHR (could have been 27/28). Not long after it started it was changed to MEL-HKG-LHR.

BA15/16 LHR-SIN-BNE would have finished very early 2000s. Definitely gone by the 2003/2004 time frame.

During the 90s QF ran QF61/62 CNS-DRW-SIN a mix of 763/74L. I believe this ran all the way to the early 2000s when it was picked up by the short lived AO. My first international flight was QF61 DRW-SIN on a 763 in Early 1994. There was also a 763 SIN-HKG tag on flight originating in PER?
Last edited by vhqpa on Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Melb94
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:14 am

Speakng about Qantas' ex-European network, does anybody have the schedule (including times) of the old QF15/16 SYD-MEL-BKK-FCO or SYD-BKK-FCO that ended in 2003 and QF17/18 SYD-SIN-CDG that ended in 2004?

Also does anybody have the full schedules (including times) of Qantas' flights into Athens, Amsterdam, Belgrade, Manchester? I am curious to see how they were planned and if they had the long layover in Europe.
 
JoKeR
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:08 pm

Ahhhh... good old days of QF at BEG. I remember seeing the 742s gliding over Belgrade to land.... route wise... I think the flights went via ATH and onto FRA and FCO...

Image

Image

Image
 
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ro1960
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:38 pm

From timetablesimages.com:

In 1965, 9 flights a week all terminating at LHR serving once weekly FRA, 4x FCO, 2x VIE, 3x ATH, 1x IST.
http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/qf/qf6507/qf657-03.jpg
Plus one weekly to LHR going East via NAN, PPT, ACA, MEX, NAS and BDA.

In 1968 the Kangaroo route had AMS 1 weekly:
http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/qf/qf6806/qf686-05.jpg

I didn't find CDG but I know they served the French Capital at some point.
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Galwayman
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:59 pm

I wonder if Qantas is moving the stopover back to Singapore to provide feed to possible new jetstar flights from Singapore to cities in Europe ?
 
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Arq
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Fri Sep 01, 2017 3:17 pm

Arq wrote:
A few that I knew of.

in 1993, QF81/82 fly SYD-ADL-SIN-BKK-LHR-MAN
And I also recall QF 5/6 fly SYD-SIN-BKK-FRA around the same time.

I think I got their Bangkok timetable of 1993 era somewhere in my house. Will get back for more info if I can find it.


I did a bit of digging out old document, and here's more information on the flights to Europe via BKK

QF1 MEL (1400) -SYD (1645)-BKK (0030) - LHR (0650+1 arrival)
QF2 LHR (1300) - BKK (0850+1)-SYD (1945+1) - MEL (2230+1 arrival)

QF5 SYD (1515)-SIN (do not know exact departure time)-BKK (0050)-FRA(0720+1 arrival, on Mon, Tue, Wed, Fri,Sun) or Rome (0715 on Thu, Sat)
QF6 FRA (2240 on Mon, Tue, Wed,Fri,Sun) or Rome ( 2230 on Thu, Sat) - BKK (1535)- SIN (do not know exact departure time)-SYD (0525+1 arrival)

It's pretty interesting that they use one flight number for two final destination in case of QF5
 
Cunard
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:01 am

Galwayman wrote:
I wonder if Qantas is moving the stopover back to Singapore to provide feed to possible new jetstar flights from Singapore to cities in Europe ?


There are no planned Jetstar flights from Singapore to Europe as that has all changed and the airline will concentrate on Asia, I think you posted the same question on another thread and got the same answer.
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luftaom
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:43 am

vhqpa wrote:
During the 90s QF ran QF61/62 CNS-DRW-SIN a mix of 763/74L. I believe this ran all the way to the early 2000s when it was picked up by the short lived AO. My first international flight was QF61 DRW-SIN on a 763 in Early 1994. There was also a 763 SIN-HKG tag on flight originating in PER?



In the early 90s there was a 767 doing PER-BKK-HKG-SIN-PER - I flew it in January 92 - albeit only on the BKK-HKG leg. I remember when we boarded in BKK the projectors showing the PER-BKK sector flight path and then when we landed in HKG announcements being made for passengers continuing on to Singapore and Perth.

I don't know if it operated in the other direction too ... but you'd have to think so.
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vhqpa
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:46 am

I just found a list of QF International routes as of NS 1994.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/38/airlineroute/257534/1994-qantas-international-network/


DIRECT FLIGHTS TO EUROPE

MEL-SYD-BKK-LHR D 744
SYD-MEL-SIN-LHR D 744
SYD-SIN-BKK-FRA 2Wk 744
SYD-SIN-BKK-FRA-CDG 3Wk 744
SYD-SIN-BKK-FCO 2Wk 744
LHR-MAN D 744

AUSTRALIA - SIN/BKK FLIGHTS

BNE-SIN D 74L
CNS-DRW-SIN-DRW-CNS 5Wk 762
CNS-DRW-SIN-CNS 2Wk 762
MEL-DPS-BKK 3Wk 763
MEL-SYD-KUL-SIN 3Wk 762
PER-BKK 2Wk 763
PER-SIN D 762
PER-SIN-HKG-BKK D 763
SYD-ADL-SIN 4Wk 763
SYD-CGK-SIN 2Wk 763 1Wk 762
SYD-MEL-DPS-BKK 3Wk 763
SYD-MEL-HKG-BKK 2Wk 763

gcmap

Never realise how big a role BKK played in the Kangaroo route. I always thought at that time it was more or less centred on SIN with the odd flight passing through BKK.

Also it appears QF didn't serve ATH at this time not sure if it was forgotten or they suspended it during this period.
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Arq
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:42 am

They have crew base in Bangkok until 2009. One of my colleague is an ex QF crew and both Europe and Australia are all in her roster.
 
PietPiloot
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:36 am

Looking back to 1983 Amsterdam and Manchester had a twice weekly service on Thursdays and Saturdays. Routing was SYD-BKK-BAH/ATH-AMS-MAN. It had a long stop in Manchester before returning the next evening back to Australia.
 
Xcarrier
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:55 am

1978-1982 I was a Res/Tkt Agt with QF London.

My memory may be a little shot these days, but it's telling me this .....

QF2 ex LHR routed daily via BAH and SIN, but I also recall that for a while one per week was supposedly routed via DAM but never actually stopped there. It was something to do with maintaining overflying rights IIRC. Each week one of us would be tasked with calling the 3 or 4 customers booked LHR-DAM to reroute them, most likely onto RB, although I can't recall exactly.

PER was served by what I think was the QF8 via BOM, 3 or maybe 4 times weekly. Not sure if it continued to SYD/MEL. There was a fire at BOM which disrupted that service for a while, probably routing it through BAH/SIN, but again, my memory lets me down.

I was sent to provide holiday cover for a week at the QF PAR office in late 1980 and it was sometime after that, in 1981 IIRC that PAR service was suspended.

MAN wasn't really on the QF radar in those days, but I can recall landing into LHR on a QF1 service sometime late 80's or early 90's and some passengers going off to pick-up a QF service operated by a BAe146/Avro RJ to MAN. It must have been sometime later that they started sending the 744 up on that short hop.

On a slightly related note, I recall taking a BA Flight MEL-LHR in Jan84 which routed MEL-SYD-SIN-KUL-SHJ-MCT-LHR ... quite an epic!
 
MAS777
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:29 am

Qantas also operated some London flights via KUL up until 1983 or 1984.. think it flew via BOM or BAH.

I believe on occasion this service also routed via Damascus around 1979/1980
 
MAS777
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:37 am

On another (but interesting) note - Qantas also operated the first ever Boeing 747 to land in Malaysia on 1st April 1972 - arriving Kuala Lumpur from Sydney via Singapore
 
David_itl
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:41 am

MAN had QF operations through to 1994 then BA operated "QF10A/QF9A" to/from LHR for 6 to 9 months. QF then had Flightline operate a 2 daily LHR-MAN and daily MAN-LHR (and a positioning MAN-LHR service) using BAe146s from 2004 to 2006 or therabouts.
 
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DLHAM
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:39 pm

In 2005 I remember FRA was served with a daily 747, flight numbers QF5/6. Stopped in SIN. The plane landed in the early morning like 6:30 and left in the late evening past 11PM. Axed in 2013.
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factsonly
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:52 pm

The good old days QF at AMS:





Top right hand is in fact Martinair in QF colours.
 
PayaLebar
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:09 pm

Xcarrier wrote:
QF2 ex LHR routed daily via BAH and SIN, but I also recall that for a while one per week was supposedly routed via DAM but never actually stopped there. It was something to do with maintaining overflying rights IIRC. Each week one of us would be tasked with calling the 3 or 4 customers booked LHR-DAM to reroute them, most likely onto RB, although I can't recall exactly.


I do remember that I had once looked at SIN-DAM on QF. Those were great days!
 
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cougar15
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Wed Feb 28, 2018 1:11 pm

I recall a few PER-FRA flights in 1990-1991 . PER-SIN was on the 747SP, a rare bird for me, the only times I ever flew on one, so as a junior Avgeek, I was wrapped! I also noted pics in the database of the SP/74L at FRA, but I am pretty sure I always changed onto a 742 at SIN. Does anybody know more about the 74L flights into Europe? And not wanting to hijack the thread, but what were they doing on PER-SIN in 1990/1991?
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Bhoy
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Re: Qantas' ex European Network

Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:32 pm

FlyCaledonian wrote:
while BA had 75% of the UK rights (VS had the remainder with its daily LHR-HKG-SYD flight).

FWIW, Virgin Atlantic only operated the HKG-SYD leg between December 2004 and May 2014, so that was well after the BA/QF JV came about.

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