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clovicek
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Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 5:24 pm

Prague based Czech Airlines posted impressive H1 results - 22% passenger growth on slight increase of ASK, with load factor up 11%. So it looks this will be third profitable year for the company. I am wondering what is next for them. They continue to be very small (smallest in SkyTeam) and their ownership mix between Czech Government, Travel Service and Korean Air makes investing for growth complicated. Especially since that Travel Service is significantly investing into P2P routes out of Prague with its Smartwings brand.

The aircraft is a mix of single A333, 319 and few ATRs for regional flights. What is the right strategy for them now? Can they grow back to 4M passengers they had in 2012? I think they must be around 2M PAX a year now. What are the growth opportunities? Can they profitably replicate what LOT is doing and:

- Grow Asia network? Maybe Tokyo, secondary China, Vietnam? (with additional A330)
- Return to US market with link to one of Delta Hubs (with additional A330)
- Launch again flights to Tel Aviv, Larnaca, Almaty, Athens, Zurich... and grow their presence in CIS and Russia?

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
 
Luisvalero
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:02 pm

If they have more planes, I can see them adding JFK, and PVG/CAN.
 
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OA940
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:37 pm

The point is if they can sustain those LH routes.
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Slash787
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:45 pm

They can add some A330neo's and fly to Tokyo, Beijing, Bangkok, JFK

CS300 would be a good replacement for the ATRS
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:51 pm

OA940 wrote:
The point is if they can sustain those LH routes.

Of course they can't. You and I know it, OK knows it, but people on this forum keep coming up with these ideas all the time. OK dropped NYC and longhaul completely, for a reason. Not until KE bought a stake did they get one (1) widebody, and it's used to SEL. It's not like OK doesn't know where to get their hands on widebodies if they wanted to.
 
MalevTU134
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:52 pm

Slash787 wrote:
They can add some A330neo's and fly to Tokyo, Beijing, Bangkok, JFK

Sure they can. But who will pay the losses?
 
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TheLion
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:56 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
OA940 wrote:
The point is if they can sustain those LH routes.

Of course they can't. You and I know it, OK knows it, but people on this forum keep coming up with these ideas all the time. OK dropped NYC and longhaul completely, for a reason. Not until KE bought a stake did they get one (1) widebody, and it's used to SEL. It's not like OK doesn't know where to get their hands on widebodies if they wanted to.


MalevTU134 wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
They can add some A330neo's and fly to Tokyo, Beijing, Bangkok, JFK

Sure they can. But who will pay the losses?


Brimming with positivity much?

I see them evolving in time as the Czech economy grows. In their favour is a reasonable size O&D, plus the fact that the only Central European hubs at present are all LH Group and Star Alliance ones.

There will be room for more in future. It's just a question of strategy allied to traffic growth and timing.
 
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Dutchy
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:08 pm

Flying with 1 A330 can't be profitable. So what do they want to be? Connecting to the Skyteam bases in Europe and leaving it with that? Or would Air France/KLM be interested to take them over and turn them into a small 3rd hub?
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Polot
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:23 pm

Dutchy wrote:
Flying with 1 A330 can't be profitable. So what do they want to be? Connecting to the Skyteam bases in Europe and leaving it with that? Or would Air France/KLM be interested to take them over and turn them into a small 3rd hub?

OK only has that widebody so KE can get around bilateral restrictions preventing them from operating to PRG more than 4x weekly. KE is basically taking care of most of the costs.
Last edited by Polot on Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
VSMUT
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:23 pm

Slash787 wrote:
CS300 would be a good replacement for the ATRS


No it wouldn't. The CS300 is twice as big as the ATR 72, not to mention more than 100 seats more than the ATR 42. IMHO, -600 series ATRs are guaranteed for CSA at some point.

Although it should be said that mother company Korean Airlines does have C's on order, which would be a perfect choice to replace some of the A319s and ATR 72s on markets that could use an upsizing/downsizing.

Dutchy wrote:
Flying with 1 A330 can't be profitable. So what do they want to be? Connecting to the Skyteam bases in Europe and leaving it with that? Or would Air France/KLM be interested to take them over and turn them into a small 3rd hub?


The A330-300 is operated in conjunction with Korean Airlines. I would suspect that Korean provides maintenance and training, so it isn't really that expensive.
 
dcajet
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:26 pm

TheLion wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
OA940 wrote:
The point is if they can sustain those LH routes.

Of course they can't. You and I know it, OK knows it, but people on this forum keep coming up with these ideas all the time. OK dropped NYC and longhaul completely, for a reason. Not until KE bought a stake did they get one (1) widebody, and it's used to SEL. It's not like OK doesn't know where to get their hands on widebodies if they wanted to.


MalevTU134 wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
They can add some A330neo's and fly to Tokyo, Beijing, Bangkok, JFK

Sure they can. But who will pay the losses?


Brimming with positivity much?

I see them evolving in time as the Czech economy grows. In their favour is a reasonable size O&D, plus the fact that the only Central European hubs at present are all LH Group and Star Alliance ones.

There will be room for more in future. It's just a question of strategy allied to traffic growth and timing.


Even as Prague evolves as a destination and the Czech Republic economy continues to grow; CSA will never be able to compete with the likes of the ME3, the US3 and long haul Euro airlines such as KL, AF or LH. It is a matter of costs and scales OK has to acquire and maintain a whole structure for just a handful of flights/destinations and make that structure turn a positive cash flow. Impossible to compete with an Emirates and their daily A380 @ PRG.
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alfa164
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:50 pm

MalevTU134 wrote:
OA940 wrote:
The point is if they can sustain those LH routes.

Of course they can't. You and I know it, OK knows it, but people on this forum keep coming up with these ideas all the time. OK dropped NYC and longhaul completely, for a reason. Not until KE bought a stake did they get one (1) widebody, and it's used to SEL. It's not like OK doesn't know where to get their hands on widebodies if they wanted to.

:checkmark: Absolutely!

I do see growth possibilities as the best Skyteam partner for flights into Eastern Europe. With direct connectivity to the USA (via DL) and to Asia (via KE), OK is well-positioned to distribute passengers to the former Soviet Republics from the Baltics to the edge of Greece. Adding frequency to the northern areas, and adding markets to the south, would make its route structure unique in ST.

With lower costs than AF/KL, more stability than AZ, and better connectivity than RO, Czech sits in the perfect niche to be a valuable ST partner in those rapidly-growing markets.
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OA940
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:05 pm

alfa164 wrote:
MalevTU134 wrote:
OA940 wrote:
The point is if they can sustain those LH routes.

Of course they can't. You and I know it, OK knows it, but people on this forum keep coming up with these ideas all the time. OK dropped NYC and longhaul completely, for a reason. Not until KE bought a stake did they get one (1) widebody, and it's used to SEL. It's not like OK doesn't know where to get their hands on widebodies if they wanted to.

:checkmark: Absolutely!

I do see growth possibilities as the best Skyteam partner for flights into Eastern Europe. With direct connectivity to the USA (via DL) and to Asia (via KE), OK is well-positioned to distribute passengers to the former Soviet Republics from the Baltics to the edge of Greece. Adding frequency to the northern areas, and adding markets to the south, would make its route structure unique in ST.

With lower costs than AF/KL, more stability than AZ, and better connectivity than RO, Czech sits in the perfect niche to be a valuable ST partner in those rapidly-growing markets.


And the world is filled with sunshine and rainbows. There is a reason they haven't started flying those routes yet. To give you a hint, it's because they'd be better off throwing money of their planes. Greece, Hungary, Croatia all have better chances at LH routes than CSA could dream of. I would sure love to see it, but it's never gonna happen at their (and the country's) current state/status.
A350/CSeries = bae
 
Jerry123
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:22 am

Maybe more focus on smaller European and UK airports. I would love to see Czech at Cardiff Airport with a 2 weekly Prague flight!
 
Bostrom
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:32 am

VSMUT wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
CS300 would be a good replacement for the ATRS


No it wouldn't. The CS300 is twice as big as the ATR 72, not to mention more than 100 seats more than the ATR 42. IMHO, -600 series ATRs are guaranteed for CSA at some point.

Although it should be said that mother company Korean Airlines does have C's on order, which would be a perfect choice to replace some of the A319s and ATR 72s on markets that could use an upsizing/downsizing.


I believe they have A320neos on order to replace some of the A319s. And as much as I would love to see a Cseries order from ČSA, they have a very small fleet. Would introducing adding Cseries to the Airbuses and ATRs make sense?

But it's nice to see them recover, I few years ago I had the impression they were going down the Malev path.
 
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GlenP
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:54 am

Great to hear some good news for what was actually a very good airline, from my experience.

Sadly, since the LCC takeover of, virtually, all flights from the UK to the Czech Republic, they've been crowded out, so any indications of a recovery in their fortunes gives hope that they may be able to at least stay in business; not so long ago there were predictions that they'd be history.

Personal thoughts on where they should go from their current position? Try to rebuild some of their intra-European network and, once this has reached a reasonable size, then go for using PRG as a hub for flights of a longer duration, to destinations for which there is demand but which aren't that well served by their Sky Team partners.
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VSMUT
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 5:32 pm

Bostrom wrote:
VSMUT wrote:
Slash787 wrote:
CS300 would be a good replacement for the ATRS


No it wouldn't. The CS300 is twice as big as the ATR 72, not to mention more than 100 seats more than the ATR 42. IMHO, -600 series ATRs are guaranteed for CSA at some point.

Although it should be said that mother company Korean Airlines does have C's on order, which would be a perfect choice to replace some of the A319s and ATR 72s on markets that could use an upsizing/downsizing.


I believe they have A320neos on order to replace some of the A319s. And as much as I would love to see a Cseries order from ČSA, they have a very small fleet. Would introducing adding Cseries to the Airbuses and ATRs make sense?


The only reason I would ever have suggested it was because of the Korean Airlines order for 10+10 C's. IMHO, it would be completely unlikely if the mother company didn't have them on order.

At the moment they are going to receive 7 A320 NEOs to replace 7 of the 9 A319s. So if you replace the remaining 2 A319s, 2 of the ATRs and maybe add a few for expansion, then you would be looking at a fleet of 6-8 planes.
 
Bostrom
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 6:02 pm

VSMUT wrote:

The only reason I would ever have suggested it was because of the Korean Airlines order for 10+10 C's. IMHO, it would be completely unlikely if the mother company didn't have them on order.

At the moment they are going to receive 7 A320 NEOs to replace 7 of the 9 A319s. So if you replace the remaining 2 A319s, 2 of the ATRs and maybe add a few for expansion, then you would be looking at a fleet of 6-8 planes.


That is a valid point. But, their A330 can easy get parts replaced as it visits ICN reguraly. I presume the Cseries would be used within Europe. Would they still be able to benefit from Korean air having Cseries as well?
 
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Slash787
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 8:00 pm

Bostrom wrote:
VSMUT wrote:


That is a valid point. But, their A330 can easy get parts replaced as it visits ICN reguraly. I presume the Cseries would be used within Europe. Would they still be able to benefit from Korean air having Cseries as well?


Well Air Baltic has some Cseries, so maybe they can have some kind of agreement with them.

I can see a good market for Czech Airlines if they expand their fleet slowly.
 
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clovicek
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:00 pm

I think the targeted fleet from about 2020-22 is 2-3 LH aircraft, 7-8 320 neo, 10 RJs and bunch of ATR 72-600. I think they really need a mid size RJ to expand to secondary airport out of Prague (Eastern Europe, UK, Germany, Baltics, CIS)
 
r2rho
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Wed Sep 06, 2017 7:57 am

In terms of fleet:

I would've liked to see the CSeries at OK - CS300 is the ideal A319 replacement, and CS100 nicely fills the gap to the ATR72, without the need to add a RJ type to the fleet. The A320NEO seems to shut that door however. They could have also opportunistically gotten used A319s, as Volotea is doing. More ATR's - 72s, not 42s - would be good. They are cheap and good for secondary routes. Long haul aircraft... only one or two if it is "smart" expansion (like the deal with KE), they should not go on adventures alone.

In terms of routes:
PRG is in an ideal geographic position to be a hub between Western and Eastern Europe. OK should take advantage of this. They should not start "me too" routes to the usual places, but rather grow into secondary markets today either ignored by the legacies, or served by a LH Group monopoly or less than daily LCCs. If AF/KL were smart, they would leverage OK to provide a Skyteam alternative to LH Group in Eastern Europe - but I'm not holding my breath about that one.
More "unconventional" routes like PRG-HAM-GOT would also be welcome - that kind of out of the box thinking that we are only used to from LCCs is what OK needs.
 
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ro1960
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:26 am

Nice to see a post-soviet era airline do well. But isn't OK facing the same limitions as other small European country flag carriers? Little to none national network that could feed into long haul routes?
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Jano
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Wed Sep 06, 2017 2:18 pm

I'd love another DL flight to PRG from either ATL or DTW.

But DL0411 JFK-PRG is seasonal only. Chances of additional DL nonstop to PRG are lesser than slim.
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clovicek
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:41 pm

r2rho wrote:
In terms of fleet:

I would've liked to see the CSeries at OK - CS300 is the ideal A319 replacement, and CS100 nicely fills the gap to the ATR72, without the need to add a RJ type to the fleet. The A320NEO seems to shut that door however. They could have also opportunistically gotten used A319s, as Volotea is doing. More ATR's - 72s, not 42s - would be good. They are cheap and good for secondary routes. Long haul aircraft... only one or two if it is "smart" expansion (like the deal with KE), they should not go on adventures alone.


In terms of routes:
PRG is in an ideal geographic position to be a hub between Western and Eastern Europe. OK should take advantage of this. They should not start "me too" routes to the usual places, but rather grow into secondary markets today either ignored by the legacies, or served by a LH Group monopoly or less than daily LCCs. If AF/KL were smart, they would leverage OK to provide a Skyteam alternative to LH Group in Eastern Europe - but I'm not holding my breath about that one.
More "unconventional" routes like PRG-HAM-GOT would also be welcome - that kind of out of the box thinking that we are only used to from LCCs is what OK needs.



on ATR, I think they said they will be making a replacement decision in 3-5 years. They might be competitive in terms of cost, but not in terms of product - they fly them againts jet (LH,LO, etc) on most routes. I do to wish they move move to RJs with C100/300 strategy and maybe keep the larger A320NEO for medium haul. Unfortunatelly, I dont think they can fill C100 on the regional rotes such as PRG-BTS/WAW/KSC/DUS/FRA...

I hope they add more routes for S18. Currently, the biggest issue is frequency is some markets. . Some of old routes had a very good LF but poor performance and only connecting traffic (mostly CIS to WE) with low revenue per ticket. I would focus on secondary markets with no direct competition - such as Cork, Tallin, Torino, Florence, Faro, Marakesh atc.
 
amadorE175
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:10 pm

clovicek wrote:
on ATR, I think they said they will be making a replacement decision in 3-5 years. They might be competitive in terms of cost, but not in terms of product - they fly them againts jet (LH,LO, etc) on most routes. I do to wish they move move to RJs with C100/300 strategy and maybe keep the larger A320NEO for medium haul. Unfortunatelly, I dont think they can fill C100 on the regional rotes such as PRG-BTS/WAW/KSC/DUS/FRA...

I hope they add more routes for S18. Currently, the biggest issue is frequency is some markets. . Some of old routes had a very good LF but poor performance and only connecting traffic (mostly CIS to WE) with low revenue per ticket. I would focus on secondary markets with no direct competition - such as Cork, Tallin, Torino, Florence, Faro, Marakesh atc


If the C100 is too big and the ATRs aren't competitive product wise then my namesake Embraer E170/175 could be an option going forward. They'd be a better size fit for the regional routes and would be an upgrade in product. I have no real sense of the operational cost differential between the ATRs and the E-jets though Alaska here in the States could be a model to follow. They use the E-jets to compete on routes others serve with 737s/A320s. From a strictly personal standpoint, I would like to see the CSA livery on a E175.
 
CairnterriAIR
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:33 pm

Slightly off subject....I took a couple of flights on CSA back in 1991 aboard their TU-154's. One of the nicest, well run, and hospitable airlines I've fever flown. I'm hoping that within this sea of giant air carriers, this little "short line" company can keep its share of the market.
 
deltadudejg
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:25 am

I used to fly OK on their A310s from JFK-PRG (then connect to BTS on an ATR). I flew all of their A310s they had over the course of a few years. I do miss them flying to the states, would love to see them back but as mentioned above it doesn't seem feasible. I second the idea mentioned above with them getting -600 series ATRs, they've been flying 2 generations of them for some time now. Hopefully Delta could bring back the ATL-PRG flight or increase the JFK-PRG frequency to better help connections.
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StudiodeKadent
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:14 am

If Czech wants to start longer-haul services the A330-900 is probably the best airframe for them. Not too large, not too expensive, and it could reach pretty much anywhere-that-isn't-Australia.

Singapore, HK, JFK and SFO would be priority targets I'd think (due to being big financial sector cities).

And Czech could still do a lot of services with the A320neo. Indeed, isn't Airbus working on a shortfield kit for the A320neo? That could make the A319 (with its higher CASM) unnecessary.
 
eamondzhang
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:48 am

StudiodeKadent wrote:
If Czech wants to start longer-haul services the A330-900 is probably the best airframe for them. Not too large, not too expensive, and it could reach pretty much anywhere-that-isn't-Australia.

Singapore, HK, JFK and SFO would be priority targets I'd think (due to being big financial sector cities).

And Czech could still do a lot of services with the A320neo. Indeed, isn't Airbus working on a shortfield kit for the A320neo? That could make the A319 (with its higher CASM) unnecessary.

I bet you mean A330-800 instead of A330-900?

Michael
 
StudiodeKadent
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:20 am

eamondzhang wrote:
StudiodeKadent wrote:
If Czech wants to start longer-haul services the A330-900 is probably the best airframe for them. Not too large, not too expensive, and it could reach pretty much anywhere-that-isn't-Australia.

Singapore, HK, JFK and SFO would be priority targets I'd think (due to being big financial sector cities).

And Czech could still do a lot of services with the A320neo. Indeed, isn't Airbus working on a shortfield kit for the A320neo? That could make the A319 (with its higher CASM) unnecessary.

I bet you mean A330-800 instead of A330-900?

Michael


No, I was speaking of the A330-900.

The A330-900... subtract about 1000nmi from the brochure range to be safe... have enough range for Singapore, HK, SFO and JFK.
 
Nami
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:32 pm

This is next:

Czech Airlines has new owner as Travel Service ups stake

Travel Service Airlines (QS, Prague) has negotiated with Korean Air (KE, Seoul Incheon) to buy its 44% stake in CSA Czech Airlines (OK, Prague), reports Zdopravy. Travel Service has also nabbed the 19.7% stake held by the Czech state's asset management company, Prisko, bringing its total stake in CSA to almost 98%.

The co-owner of Travel Service, Jiří Šimáně, had previously hinted that his company would be interested in absorbing the state carrier, saying that "our air transport market only has enough room for one Czech company". Travel Service's operations – through its ACMI/charter unit and its seat-only business smartwings – are almost twice the size of CSA's.

ch-aviation has learned that Travel Service intends to phase out its brand name, and will move all operations under the Smartwings (QS, Prague) virtual brand. Travel Service will remain as the holding company. Chinese investment group CEFC controls 49.9% of Travel Service.

According to ch-aviation capacity data, Smart Wings makes up 10.8% of the Czech market in terms of scheduled seat capacity, while CSA makes up 17.4%. Fleet-wise, Travel Service has an all-Boeing fleet of thirty-five aircraft, to which it will now add CSA's nine A319-100s, one A330-300, three ATR42-500s and five ATR72-500s.


https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -ups-stake
 
deltadudejg
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:31 pm

Nami wrote:
This is next:

Czech Airlines has new owner as Travel Service ups stake

Travel Service Airlines (QS, Prague) has negotiated with Korean Air (KE, Seoul Incheon) to buy its 44% stake in CSA Czech Airlines (OK, Prague), reports Zdopravy. Travel Service has also nabbed the 19.7% stake held by the Czech state's asset management company, Prisko, bringing its total stake in CSA to almost 98%.

The co-owner of Travel Service, Jiří Šimáně, had previously hinted that his company would be interested in absorbing the state carrier, saying that "our air transport market only has enough room for one Czech company". Travel Service's operations – through its ACMI/charter unit and its seat-only business smartwings – are almost twice the size of CSA's.

ch-aviation has learned that Travel Service intends to phase out its brand name, and will move all operations under the Smartwings (QS, Prague) virtual brand. Travel Service will remain as the holding company. Chinese investment group CEFC controls 49.9% of Travel Service.

According to ch-aviation capacity data, Smart Wings makes up 10.8% of the Czech market in terms of scheduled seat capacity, while CSA makes up 17.4%. Fleet-wise, Travel Service has an all-Boeing fleet of thirty-five aircraft, to which it will now add CSA's nine A319-100s, one A330-300, three ATR42-500s and five ATR72-500s.


https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -ups-stake


Just read that as well. I'm real curious now how OK will shape up. Does this mean that the A330 will go back to KE or does it stay with the potential to start new routes now that there is no reason to operate it to Seoul anymore
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JakubH
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:01 pm

deltadudejg wrote:
Nami wrote:
This is next:
Czech Airlines has new owner as Travel Service ups stake
Travel Service Airlines (QS, Prague) has negotiated with Korean Air (KE, Seoul Incheon) to buy its 44% stake in CSA Czech Airlines (OK, Prague), reports Zdopravy. Travel Service has also nabbed the 19.7% stake held by the Czech state's asset management company, Prisko, bringing its total stake in CSA to almost 98%....

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news ... -ups-stake

Just read that as well. I'm real curious now how OK will shape up. Does this mean that the A330 will go back to KE or does it stay with the potential to start new routes now that there is no reason to operate it to Seoul anymore


The A330 should stay for the period of the lease and one more A330 is planned for 2 yet-to-be-announced China destinations, according to insiders.

Also, a dedicated thread to the acquisition is here:
Travel Service acquires CSA Czech Airlines
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:52 pm

Worth adding that the A330 route PRG-ICN is backstopped by the large Hyundai-Kia operation over the border in Slovakia. That's why OK have this single longhaul route. There has been a lot of Korean investment in the old Czechoslovakia.

A China route would work as there's Chinese money being invested there too. The Atlantic is a busted flush for OK so going East (where the money is) makes sense. But where in China? Beijing and Shanghai are hopelessly congested so maybe a second tier city like Guangzhou?
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:58 pm

CSA will rebrand to Smart Wings.
 
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JakubH
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:43 am

Channex757 wrote:
Worth adding that the A330 route PRG-ICN is backstopped by the large Hyundai-Kia operation over the border in Slovakia. That's why OK have this single longhaul route. There has been a lot of Korean investment in the old Czechoslovakia.

A China route would work as there's Chinese money being invested there too. The Atlantic is a busted flush for OK so going East (where the money is) makes sense. But where in China? Beijing and Shanghai are hopelessly congested so maybe a second tier city like Guangzhou?

Currently, Prague is served from China by:
Hainan Airlines: Beijing (PEK)
China Eastern Airlines: Shanghai (PVG)
China Eastern Airlines: Xi'an (XIY) [from OCT31]
Sichuan Airlines: Chengdu (CTU)

In addition, China Airlines sends a cargo 747 to PRG via DWC/LUX.
Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less.
C. S. Lewis
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:34 am

If they start a route to the US of course the first would be JFK. That's always the norm when an European airline has ac with sufficient range.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
MHG
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:28 pm

I would expect OK just continuing their actual business model and I don´t see them adding any LH aircraft/routes anytime soon.
That single A330 operated in connection with KE will continue to do so as long as KE shoulders the costs.
For OK it makes no sense to start any LH flights at the moment aside from the very special arrangement with KE.
But I do see further careful expansion on European routes in particular to Eastern Europe as well as further strengthening ties (code sharing/scheduling) with Travel Service/Smartwings.
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:37 pm

MHG wrote:
I would expect OK just continuing their actual business model and I don´t see them adding any LH aircraft/routes anytime soon.
That single A330 operated in connection with KE will continue to do so as long as KE shoulders the costs.
For OK it makes no sense to start any LH flights at the moment aside from the very special arrangement with KE.
But I do see further careful expansion on European routes in particular to Eastern Europe as well as further strengthening ties (code sharing/scheduling) with Travel Service/Smartwings.

There will be no CSA or TS, only Smart Wings name will be used.
 
klm617
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 3:40 pm

lavalampluva wrote:
If they start a route to the US of course the first would be JFK. That's always the norm when an European airline has ac with sufficient range.



PRG-JFK 4X weekly
PRG-DTW 3X weekly

That way you have the entire USA covered with convenient 1-stop service from Prague no brainier if I am CSA
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:29 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
There will be no CSA or TS, only Smart Wings name will be used.


Says who?
 
GianiDC
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:39 pm

You can read about it here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1375713
 
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aemoreira1981
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:04 pm

With the new Chinese manager, I suspect that CAN and PVG should be in the cards for SmartWings, likely 3x weekly, in addition to the current route to ICN. I could also see a summer seasonal return to JFK plus a winter seasonal service to BKK, but not year-round (the common factor is all are SkyTeam hubs except BKK, which would be largely a tourist destination). A wild-card could be SGN or HAN, as each is also a SkyTeam hub.

As for a fleet, I suspect that there will be a rationalization around the ATR72 or Dash 8-Q400, Boeing 737 and 787 (noticing that Travel Service has a B738s and B739s, leasing 11 B738s, owning two B738s, and leasing two ex-SpiceJet B739s). The MAX 8 or MAX 10, or going all B739, would be useful for the combined operation for short-haul services and the 5-6 787-9s would also be useful. Keeping in mind that Travel Service also deals in charters, having spare aircraft shouldn't be a problem. An ideal 60-aircraft fleet matrix would be based on 11 Dash 8-Q400s, 6 B789s, 33 B738s, 7M8s, or A320s, and 11 B739s, 7MK (MAX 10) or A321s.
 
Jano
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:17 pm

Channex757 wrote:
Worth adding that the A330 route PRG-ICN is backstopped by the large Hyundai-Kia operation over the border in Slovakia. That's why OK have this single longhaul route. There has been a lot of Korean investment in the old Czechoslovakia.


There is Kia Motors, near Zilina, Slovakia (ILZ), http://www.kia.sk/en/contact/general-contact . OK used to fly to ILZ from PRG. I was on the last flight right before Christmas 2011.

And there is Hyundai Motor Manufacturing in Nosovice, Czech Republic, http://www.hyundai-motor.cz/?rubrika=kontakt

Both plants are about 100km apart.
The Widget Air Line :)
 
L410Turbolet
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:19 pm

GianiDC wrote:
You can read about it here:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1375713


The only phasing out mentioned in that link is of the Travel Service "brand" in favor of the slightly better (at least graphically) Smartwings
I have not seen any indication of such move in the local press and/or aviation forums. That doesn't mean it can't happen. However, if they ditch a 97 years old brand in favor of their own, literally unknown and worthless one(s) with awful reputation, then I can only see it as some sort of personal? vendetta for the previous failed attempt to take over OK 5 or so years ago.

Channex757 wrote:
A China route would work as there's Chinese money being invested there too.


What I'm afraid of is ČSA becoming a Trojan horse for the Chimese and forced to buy subpar aircraft like the C919.
 
lavalampluva
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:55 pm

klm617 wrote:
lavalampluva wrote:
If they start a route to the US of course the first would be JFK. That's always the norm when an European airline has ac with sufficient range.



PRG-JFK 4X weekly
PRG-DTW 3X weekly

That way you have the entire USA covered with convenient 1-stop service from Prague no brainier if I am CSA

Based on that argument wouldn't ATL or ORD be a better option? They'd cover even more cities across the US. Sorry but DTW is not the center of the cultural universe. Even MSP covers more destinations non-stop than DTW.
Remind me to send a thank you note to Mr. Boeing.
 
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CanadaFair
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:44 pm

Why not rename it Czechoslovak Airlines again, isn't Smart Wings Slovak too?
 
deltadudejg
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:51 pm

My vote for a new name would be Czech's Mix Airlines. I used to fly TPA-JFK-PRG-BTS I would love to see more scheduled service to BTS. Being that Slovakia can't hold it's own national airline. OK did a small stint a few years back flying the 737s out of Bratislava which I feel was too many seats. Be nice though if they offered better connections into Slovakia seeing as how mentioned above there is a strong foreign auto manufacturers presence. But being said a county that takes 5 hours to drive from one end to the other and 2 hours from the north to the south. Having VIE, WAW so close to each other not to mention the plentiful market of LCCs like Ryanair and Wizz add Norwegian now for international it's going to hard for OK to grow any larger than they are IMO.
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L410Turbolet
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:48 pm

CanadaFair wrote:
Why not rename it Czechoslovak Airlines again, isn't Smart Wings Slovak too?


AFAIK it is not. Smart Wings is just a brand, never properly developed one. It has been existing since 2003ish and brought back to life from hibernation after QS acquired stake in OK couple years ago.
That's one interesting thing, QS never cared about their brand(s). The Travel Service (how creative name!) livery is a sad joke. The fonts, the logo, just awful.
They don't seem to care about reputation either. They are hated by the package-holiday-buying segment of the public because their market share in the charter segment is maybe 80+%. Yet they make tons of money from both charters and ACMI leases.

Purely technically speaking ČSA has always been a Czech company, regardless of what the "Č" standed for over the years. As a curiosity, OK therefore was not subject to splitting of assets 2:1 during the federal divorce in 1992. On the other hand rolling stock of the ČSD, the national railway company, was split according to the 2:1 matrix along with everything else.
Renaming it back to "Czechoslovak" would not be a problem as far as I can guess.
 
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JakubH
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Re: Czech Airlines (ČSA) - What is next?

Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:29 pm

L410Turbolet wrote:
Renaming it back to "Czechoslovak" would not be a problem as far as I can guess.

I am not sure how well perceived that would be among locals given that Czechoslovakia no longer exists and Czechs are much more heavily represented among pax. Hard to imagine Slovaks adding a PRG layover if they can get good connectivity thru VIE (unless competitive long-haul options are available from PRG).

I would love to see the new Airline upgrade from the existing LCC-like branding (applying to all TS, CSA and Smart Wings) and develop an identity of a proud, national airline - comparable to OS or LX, perhaps with a lower-cost vacation brand (CSA Holidays, say). As I suggested earlier, the former would need to come with an upgrade of their soft + hard products and an extensive marketing campaign, not dissimilar to the successful ones by TK or Icelandair - given how damaged the reputation of CSA is given recent management strategy and the lack of interest in the West (product downgrading, destination elimination, heavy focus on the East).
Humility is not thinking less of yourself, it's thinking of yourself less.
C. S. Lewis

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