FlySSC
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PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:18 am

Topic title says it all .... your thoughts ?
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:40 am

Neither has significant French diaspora, neither has major French business interests, both lie in the shadow of far more powerful gateways that DO have French nonstops...... so doubt AF would want anything to do with these, and by extension DL. Could add LAS and MSY to that list, IMO.

Maybe "Joon," whatever it turns out to be, will be interested?

If not, then it'd be DY/DU.
Even SE only seems interested in flying to markets with major French interests.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:43 am

I'll still never understand AF's strategy in its recent MCO attempt... it seemed doomed to fail from the start, with no real adjustment/effort on their part to make it work.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
FlySSC
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:46 am

Well, DL already flies PDX-AMS, so why no PDX-CDG ? is there more Dutch interests in the Portland area than French ones ?
And CDG is a by far more important Hub in Continental Europe than AMS...
 
jubguy3
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:48 am

SLC already has a CDG nonstop... its easier for Delta to just connect passengers through SLC, MSP, ATL than it is to try to find the demand on a CDG flight. This is almost always why so and so city doesn't have a nonstop to wherever. Why doesn't SLC have a nonstop to Asia? Because you can just connect through SEA... its not worth an airline's troubles trying to support demand that doesn't necessarily exist and won't necessarily prove to be profitable for them.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:52 am

FlySSC wrote:
Well, DL already flies PDX-AMS, so why no PDX-CDG ?

That question works in the opposite direction too though:
DL already has PDX-LHR to handle the O&D, and has PDX-AMS (which it inherited from NW) to handle the connecting passengers...

....so what'd be the point of adding CDG, when there's no significant French draw to Oregon, AMS can already handle connections, and SEA-CDG is a quick cnnx away?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
amadorE175
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:16 am

LAX772LR wrote:
both lie in the shadow of far more powerful gateways that DO have French nonstops...... so doubt AF would want anything to do with these, and by extension DL. Could add LAS and MSY to that list, IMO.

Maybe "Joon," whatever it turns out to be, will be interested?


I think a SAN-CDG flight is more of "when" than "if." Getting to LAX from SAN is a much bigger challenge than getting from SJC to SFO BA flies a 744 to town and has made it successful for a few years despite 4-5 daily LAX-LHR (BA+AA frequencies). LH will be starting with a mainline A343 next year. Both of those flights are co-marketed with AA and UA, respectively. OneWorld and Star Alliance are already here so it wouldn't be outrageous for a SkyTeam airline (specifically the DL-AF/KLM JV partners) to jump in and link the city to Europe themselves.

I don't think Joon would be a good fit for the market if they configure their aircraft in a less premium configuration. I think the success of BA's LHR flight and LH's choice of a mainline (rather than Cityline) aircraft point to enough premium demand in the area.

Many cities tout their biotech industry as a raison d'etre for a flight to Europe but I would argue that SD has a more credible argument than most. San Diego is consistently in the top 10 of biotech rankings (across a variety of methods and publications) and is the only city in that amorphous top 10 but let's use this ranking provided by Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology News, http://www.genengnews.com/the-lists/top-10-us-biopharma-clusters/77900917.

Their top 10 regions: (10) Chicago, (9) Los Angeles, (8) Raleigh-Durham, (7) Seattle, (6), Philadelphia, (5) DC-Virginia-Maryland, (4) San Diego, (3) New York-NJ, (2) SF Bay Area, (1) Boston-Cambridge. Of the top 10, only San Diego has no flight to CDG. The San Diego branch of the French-American Chamber of Commerce is actively promoting the biotech industries of France so there's interest from the business community here.
 
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LAX772LR
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:45 am

amadorE175 wrote:
I don't think Joon would be a good fit for the market if they configure their aircraft in a less premium configuration. I think the success of BA's LHR flight and LH's choice of a mainline (rather than Cityline) aircraft point to enough premium demand in the area.

Too soon to jump to that conclusion.

BA's certainly made an excellent run of it, but we have no idea how LH will do... heck for all we know, BA alone (or BA+LH) could be constitute a first-mover effect which precludes anything but LoCo service from here on out.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
zoulastar
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:55 am

Hi all,

Both cities are potential new routes in the AF network, as well as LAS, MSY, etc. Those routes might open in the next 2/3 years. the aircraft would be the 787.

Val
 
Jerry123
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:27 am

If PDX were to get a CDG service then I can only see Delta Airlines providing it. With maybe Norwegian as an outside bet.
 
Jerry123
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:33 am

FlySSC wrote:
Well, DL already flies PDX-AMS, so why no PDX-CDG ? is there more Dutch interests in the Portland area than French ones ?
And CDG is a by far more important Hub in Continental Europe than AMS...

Actually as a hub AMS is far better than CDG. If Delta did launch a CDG route then it would be targeting more O&D traffic. Paris like London is a massive tourist destination.
 
Cointrin330
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:55 am

FlySSC wrote:
Well, DL already flies PDX-AMS, so why no PDX-CDG ? is there more Dutch interests in the Portland area than French ones ?
And CDG is a by far more important Hub in Continental Europe than AMS...


DL actually flows more connections through AMS than it does over CDG so it absolutely does make sense that the PDX-AMS route exists. I believe this has been pointed out previously on this forum in threads about AMS vs. CDG when it comes to Delta. Just look at what DL operates to AMS from the US vs. CDG in terms of aircraft and frequencies. And CDG is one of the more cumbersome airports to transit through in Europe.
 
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:17 pm

Since when did LH recommence flights to PDX? I flew FRA-PDX a few years ago but that's going back a fare way and to my knowledge flights were discontinued around 2009.
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FlySSC
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:13 pm

Jerry123 wrote:
FlySSC wrote:
Actually as a hub AMS is far better than CDG. If Delta did launch a CDG route then it would be targeting more O&D traffic. Paris like London is a massive tourist destination.


AMS may been as "better" than CDG from a passenger point of vue (I would say "easier"), but CDG offers much mors possibilities of connections throughout the world than any other HUB in Europe, including LHR.
 
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:26 pm

FlySSC wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:
FlySSC wrote:
Actually as a hub AMS is far better than CDG. If Delta did launch a CDG route then it would be targeting more O&D traffic. Paris like London is a massive tourist destination.


AMS may been as "better" than CDG from a passenger point of vue (I would say "easier"), but CDG offers much mors possibilities of connections throughout the world than any other HUB in Europe, including LHR.

But DL and Skyteam doesn't use AMS as a world hub. Most of the pax on DL flights to AMS are heading to Europe and the UK with some heading to India and Africa and KLMs Cityhopper network is extensive throughout Europe probably more so than Air France's HOP! Hence why Delta don't fly to CDG from PDX.
 
F27500
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 1:36 pm

Sheesh ... you ask a lot of questions! ;)
 
Q
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:12 pm

Watch out Norwegian Int'l may fly there someday.

Q
 
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:17 pm

FlySSC wrote:
Well, DL already flies PDX-AMS, so why no PDX-CDG ? is there more Dutch interests in the Portland area than French ones ?
And CDG is a by far more important Hub in Continental Europe than AMS...


Remember, Nike's world headquarters is in the PDX area and their European headquarters is in Amsterdam. Adidas also has a major presence in both PDX and AMS as does marketing firm Wieden+Kennedy. So, yes, PDX does have more ties to The Netherlands than it does with France.
 
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:20 pm

Jerry123 wrote:
FlySSC wrote:
Well, DL already flies PDX-AMS, so why no PDX-CDG ? is there more Dutch interests in the Portland area than French ones ?
And CDG is a by far more important Hub in Continental Europe than AMS...

Actually as a hub AMS is far better than CDG. If Delta did launch a CDG route then it would be targeting more O&D traffic. Paris like London is a massive tourist destination.

I know AMS was not part of the OP's discussion parameters but I would MUCH rather see SAN-AMS than SAN-PAR! We could just as easily get a SkyTeam flight from AMS -- either on DL or KL metal -- as CDG (and I just have a feeling that might be in the cards for the not-too-distant-future.)

IMO, Schiphol is a better hub, or certainly no worse than de Gaulle, there would tend to be more local traffic to SAN from that part of Europe than from France, and we have 2 SkyTeam choices from AMS.

Let me be clear however: I would be thrilled to have any of the above (just as long it's SkyTeam metal and not Norwegian or another ULCC/LCC.)

bb
 
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 2:27 pm

Jerry123 wrote:
FlySSC wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:


AMS may been as "better" than CDG from a passenger point of vue (I would say "easier"), but CDG offers much mors possibilities of connections throughout the world than any other HUB in Europe, including LHR.

But DL and Skyteam doesn't use AMS as a world hub. Most of the pax on DL flights to AMS are heading to Europe and the UK with some heading to India and Africa and KLMs Cityhopper network is extensive throughout Europe probably more so than Air France's HOP! Hence why Delta don't fly to CDG from PDX.


Going forward, the importance of a "world hub" in Western Europe will diminish even more for US passengers. Already, the European hubs make no sense for the vast majority of US-East Asia itineraries. The ME3 is increasingly taking away US-East Africa and Subcontinent traffic. That leaves West Africa, but the best (in a macro sense) hubs aren't necessarily the best West Africa hubs.
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factsonly
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:02 pm

FlySSC wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:
FlySSC wrote:
Actually as a hub AMS is far better than CDG. If Delta did launch a CDG route then it would be targeting more O&D traffic. Paris like London is a massive tourist destination.


AMS may been as "better" than CDG from a passenger point of vue (I would say "easier"), but CDG offers much mors possibilities of connections throughout the world than any other HUB in Europe, including LHR.


FlySSC, with all due respect, you may want to read the below 2017 report from ACI, as your statement was true in 2007.

In 2017 CDG is in 4th place in Europe for hub connectivity, after (1) AMS, (2) LHR and (3) FRA.

Read this report to see the latest figures.
- ACI EUROPE AIRPORT INDUSTRY CONNECTIVITY REPORT 2017:

http://mailing.aci-europe.org/ACI%20E%2 ... ersion.pdf

The report states:

'Amsterdam-Schiphol is now the number 1 airport in Europe in terms of direct connectivity – having replaced London-Heathrow in that position since 2016.
Frankfurt, Paris Charles de Gaulle and Istanbul-Atatürk are also included in the top 5 European airports offering the highest levels of direct connectivity.

In addition, here are the latest annual 'transfer' passenger numbers for AMS and CDG, Year 2016:

- AMS 24.036.333 transfer pax
- CDG 11.556.405 transfer pax

The total number of Transfer passenger says a lot about 'Hub connectivity', AMS handles more than 2x the volume of CDG.
CDG is more of an O&D airport.
 
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:29 pm

AMS is a better connecting airport for regional traffic than CDG would be (and the O&D traffic would be too low to warrant a PDX-CDG flight or a SAN-CDG flight). CDG is largely O&D. For nonstops, PDX has the flights that work---a route to Amsterdam (inherited from the NW/KL JV days). Likewise, if SAN gets a flight not to London, AMS would make more sense (as AMS is a connecting airport). The major connecting airport in France is ORY (to and from which most domestic flights in France---both within metropolitan France and to overseas departments). As such, such people can be routed through JFK to get to either ORY or NCE (the NCE connections would be primarily on HOP!)

That said, NCE is really underlooked at as a connecting airport within France. Delta has flown this route year-round from JFK, although there are far fewer connections in France than there are compared to ORY.
 
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Coronado990
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 3:51 pm

I wonder if Air Tahiti Nui would ever consider a PPT-SAN-CDG flight a couple times a week. Just wondering.
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SANFan
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 4:43 pm

aemoreira1981 wrote:
AMS is a better connecting airport for regional traffic than CDG would be (and the O&D traffic would be too low to warrant a PDX-CDG flight or a SAN-CDG flight). CDG is largely O&D. For nonstops, PDX has the flights that work---a route to Amsterdam (inherited from the NW/KL JV days).

Likewise, if SAN gets a flight not to London, AMS would make more sense (as AMS is a connecting airport).

'Another" flight not to LON' -- LH, SAN-FRA starting March 25 + Edelweiss started this year ZRH-SAN (and will return in 2018.)

But I do agree with everything you said above concerning SAN -- especially that AMS would be the preferred option, over PAR. (And I don't know enough about PDX's Europe needs.)

aemoreira1981 wrote:
The major connecting airport in France is ORY (to and from which most domestic flights in France---both within metropolitan France and to overseas departments). As such, such people can be routed through JFK to get to either ORY or NCE (the NCE connections would be primarily on HOP!)

That said, NCE is really underlooked at as a connecting airport within France. Delta has flown this route year-round from JFK, although there are far fewer connections in France than there are compared to ORY.


That may be but at least in the case of SAN, I doubt there's that much connecting traffic from all of France to support a nonstop from France to SAN (other than whatever foreign connections are available.)

bb
 
jubguy3
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 7:32 pm

amadorE175 wrote:
LAX772LR wrote:
both lie in the shadow of far more powerful gateways that DO have French nonstops...... so doubt AF would want anything to do with these, and by extension DL. Could add LAS and MSY to that list, IMO.

Maybe "Joon," whatever it turns out to be, will be interested?


I think a SAN-CDG flight is more of "when" than "if." Getting to LAX from SAN is a much bigger challenge than getting from SJC to SFO BA flies a 744 to town and has made it successful for a few years despite 4-5 daily LAX-LHR (BA+AA frequencies). LH will be starting with a mainline A343 next year. Both of those flights are co-marketed with AA and UA, respectively. OneWorld and Star Alliance are already here so it wouldn't be outrageous for a SkyTeam airline (specifically the DL-AF/KLM JV partners) to jump in and link the city to Europe themselves.

I don't think Joon would be a good fit for the market if they configure their aircraft in a less premium configuration. I think the success of BA's LHR flight and LH's choice of a mainline (rather than Cityline) aircraft point to enough premium demand in the area.

Many cities tout their biotech industry as a raison d'etre for a flight to Europe but I would argue that SD has a more credible argument than most. San Diego is consistently in the top 10 of biotech rankings (across a variety of methods and publications) and is the only city in that amorphous top 10 but let's use this ranking provided by Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology News, http://www.genengnews.com/the-lists/top-10-us-biopharma-clusters/77900917.

Their top 10 regions: (10) Chicago, (9) Los Angeles, (8) Raleigh-Durham, (7) Seattle, (6), Philadelphia, (5) DC-Virginia-Maryland, (4) San Diego, (3) New York-NJ, (2) SF Bay Area, (1) Boston-Cambridge. Of the top 10, only San Diego has no flight to CDG. The San Diego branch of the French-American Chamber of Commerce is actively promoting the biotech industries of France so there's interest from the business community here.


Are there any companies that would have a specific reason for a CDG flight though? SLC has Biofire which is now owned by Biomerieux.
 
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bigfoot0503
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:13 pm

TransWorldOne wrote:
FlySSC wrote:
Well, DL already flies PDX-AMS, so why no PDX-CDG ? is there more Dutch interests in the Portland area than French ones ?
And CDG is a by far more important Hub in Continental Europe than AMS...


Remember, Nike's world headquarters is in the PDX area and their European headquarters is in Amsterdam. Adidas also has a major presence in both PDX and AMS as does marketing firm Wieden+Kennedy. So, yes, PDX does have more ties to The Netherlands than it does with France.


Fairly accurate point...Adidas has their North American headquarters in Portland and they are presently on a "land grab" as their main facility in North Portland is inadequate for the growth they are experiencing.
http://www.kgw.com/money/business/adida ... /458589059
 
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:13 pm

NZ321 wrote:
Since when did LH recommence flights to PDX? I flew FRA-PDX a few years ago but that's going back a fare way and to my knowledge flights were discontinued around 2009.


I found an "Oregonian" online news article, in 2008 LH announced it was ending the route, which according to the paper lasted six years.
 
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:44 pm

AAvgeek744 wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Since when did LH recommence flights to PDX? I flew FRA-PDX a few years ago but that's going back a fare way and to my knowledge flights were discontinued around 2009.


I found an "Oregonian" online news article, in 2008 LH announced it was ending the route, which according to the paper lasted six years.

It was flown from 2003 to 2009, in an A343 that wasn't daily service, but was year-round. I believe the route was transferred to SEA, which is now a daily 744.
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AAvgeek744
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:48 pm

717atOGG wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
NZ321 wrote:
Since when did LH recommence flights to PDX? I flew FRA-PDX a few years ago but that's going back a fare way and to my knowledge flights were discontinued around 2009.


I found an "Oregonian" online news article, in 2008 LH announced it was ending the route, which according to the paper lasted six years.

It was flown from 2003 to 2009, in an A343 that wasn't daily service, but was year-round. I believe the route was transferred to SEA, which is now a daily 744.


Sounds right . I meant to type 2009 but hit an 8 instead. Can't recall if LH was at SEA at the time, but a move north makes sense.
 
amadorE175
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Mon Sep 04, 2017 10:42 pm

jubguy3 wrote:

Are there any companies that would have a specific reason for a CDG flight though? SLC has Biofire which is now owned by Biomerieux.


Identifying a specific company is, admittedly, a problem. Even Illumina, the largest SD-based biotech company, has an office in Amsterdam rather than Paris. It's much easier to identify tech links to AMS. Cymer is a SD-based subsidiary of a Dutch ASML. And, if Qualcomm successfully purchases Dutch firm NXP there'd be another big link to AMS. On that basis, it'd be appropriate to amend my statement to say that a SAN-AMS (rather than CDG) flight is "when" not "if." At the very least, SAN planners forecast a third European hub carrier in SAN by 2020.
 
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:21 am

NZ321 wrote:
Since when did LH recommence flights to PDX? I flew FRA-PDX a few years ago but that's going back a fare way and to my knowledge flights were discontinued around 2009.

As has already been pointed out, LH discontinued service some time ago. DE began the route seasonally a couple summers ago.
 
DaufuskieGuy
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:16 am

FlySSC wrote:
Jerry123 wrote:
FlySSC wrote:
Actually as a hub AMS is far better than CDG. If Delta did launch a CDG route then it would be targeting more O&D traffic. Paris like London is a massive tourist destination.


AMS may been as "better" than CDG from a passenger point of vue (I would say "easier"), but CDG offers much mors possibilities of connections throughout the world than any other HUB in Europe, including LHR.


yep if you want to go anywhere in Africa besides jnb then cdg is the place to do it, dozens and dozens of destinations
 
redadeco
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:43 am

For connections within Europe, AMS and CDG are comparable. However when it comes to African connections, CDG wins the battle hands off. KL only serves South Africa, Uganda, Rwanda, Nigeria, Tanzania, Kenya, Ghana and Angola. All these countries and many many more are covered by AF.

There are people with no Schengen visas who cannot transit through more than one European airport on their way to the US, this is where CDG comes handy.
 
BoeingGuy
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Tue Sep 05, 2017 6:11 am

AAvgeek744 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:

I found an "Oregonian" online news article, in 2008 LH announced it was ending the route, which according to the paper lasted six years.

It was flown from 2003 to 2009, in an A343 that wasn't daily service, but was year-round. I believe the route was transferred to SEA, which is now a daily 744.


Sounds right . I meant to type 2009 but hit an 8 instead. Can't recall if LH was at SEA at the time, but a move north makes sense.


LH started SEA before discontinuing PDX, so it wasn't "transferred" to SEA.

I thought DL or AF would have started PDX-CDG by now. Isn't PDX-AMS pretty much always full?
 
factsonly
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:42 am

redadeco wrote:
KL only serves South Africa, Uganda, Rwanda, Nigeria, Tanzania, Kenya, Ghana and Angola.

All these countries and many many more are covered by AF.



Not quite correct, AF does not operate to all KL destinations.

Only KL / AMS operates to:

- Uganda
- Rwanda
- Tanzania
- Kenya (AF commences 2018)
- Liberia (not in your list)
- Namibia (not in your list)

AF / CDG and KL / AMS both operate to:

- Angola
- Ghana
- Nigeria
- Sierra Leone
- South Africa

Yes AF serves a massive number of African destinations in Francophone Africa from CDG, but KLM specialises in the Anglo African market where it is bigger than either BA or LH.

Combined DL/AF/KL offer PDX the strongest network to Africa.
 
Jerry123
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Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Tue Sep 05, 2017 7:54 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:
717atOGG wrote:
It was flown from 2003 to 2009, in an A343 that wasn't daily service, but was year-round. I believe the route was transferred to SEA, which is now a daily 744.


Sounds right . I meant to type 2009 but hit an 8 instead. Can't recall if LH was at SEA at the time, but a move north makes sense.


LH started SEA before discontinuing PDX, so it wasn't "transferred" to SEA.

I thought DL or AF would have started PDX-CDG by now. Isn't PDX-AMS pretty much always full?

PDX-AMS is always a full A333. I do hope DL introduce a CDG flight in the future as it would give me more options to get back to the UK.
 
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LAX772LR
Posts: 12311
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:01 am

factsonly wrote:
redadeco wrote:
KL only serves South Africa, Uganda, Rwanda, Nigeria, Tanzania, Kenya, Ghana and Angola.
All these countries and many many more are covered by AF.

Not quite correct, AF does not operate to all KL destinations.

Only KL / AMS operates to:

- Uganda
- Rwanda
- Tanzania
- Kenya (AF commences 2018)
- Liberia (not in your list)
- Namibia (not in your list)

AF / CDG and KL / AMS both operate to:

- Angola
- Ghana
- Nigeria
- Sierra Leone
- South Africa

You both seem to be forgetting that they offer destinations to Saharan Africa as well...
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
User avatar
bigfoot0503
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:17 pm

Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:33 pm

Jerry123 wrote:
BoeingGuy wrote:
AAvgeek744 wrote:

Sounds right . I meant to type 2009 but hit an 8 instead. Can't recall if LH was at SEA at the time, but a move north makes sense.


LH started SEA before discontinuing PDX, so it wasn't "transferred" to SEA.

I thought DL or AF would have started PDX-CDG by now. Isn't PDX-AMS pretty much always full?

PDX-AMS is always a full A333. I do hope DL introduce a CDG flight in the future as it would give me more options to get back to the UK.


Agreed...the PDX-AMS flight while allowing for seasonal adjustments from time to time has consistently been served with the A330-300 with excellent loads. PDX is somewhat of a Delta/SkyTeam anomaly in that it certainly isn't a hub, perhaps one might argue that it is more of a Delta "focus city" with international flights to NRT, AMS and most recently LHR. I will say for what it is worth the addition of PDX-CDG makes sense if the flight is operated by DL or a SkyTeam partner such as AF. The emphasis on the SkyTeam alliance and new service was reaffirmed when recently Aeromexico and Delta jointly announced service to multiple US and Mexico markets, further highlighting the emphasis on growing new markets such as SEA to MEX and PDX to MEX.

Paris seems to be the most spoken about "next served" international destination from the perspective of the movers and shakers at the Port of Portland. PDX should see nearly 20 million passengers by years-end, international traffic has increased by 12% from 2016 to 2017 and it's not hard to imagine the PDX-CDG route coming to fruition in the next 2-3 years.
 
Taco2sDay
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:27 am

Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:30 am

The entitled to BA LHR service from the States has now expanded to CDG! I'm sure FRA, AMS, and seasonal to FCO is mandatory for any airport with a 9,000' runway, and more than 5M boarding per year.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6259
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:50 am

Taco2sDay wrote:
The entitled to BA LHR service from the States has now expanded to CDG! I'm sure FRA, AMS, and seasonal to FCO is mandatory for any airport with a 9,000' runway, and more than 5M boarding per year.


Have much of an axe to grind?

This is A.net. The OP asked a valid question.
 
Jerry123
Posts: 321
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:58 pm

Re: PDX-CDG, SAN-CDG, Why not ? If yes : who ? And When ?

Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:10 am

BoeingGuy wrote:
Taco2sDay wrote:
The entitled to BA LHR service from the States has now expanded to CDG! I'm sure FRA, AMS, and seasonal to FCO is mandatory for any airport with a 9,000' runway, and more than 5M boarding per year.


Have much of an axe to grind?

This is A.net. The OP asked a valid question.

I don't think Rome would ever be an option for PDX. CDG is the most next logical step for the Skyteam network there. Would BA be interested in PDX now DL is doing LHR? Not so sure now. In the long term PDX could be a seasonal route for Norwegian out of Gatwick and maybe WOW at KEF.

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