• 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 1340
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:27 pm

DL757NYC wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
GuruJanitor wrote:
What about Norwegian’s short haul offerings to the Caribbean? On the surface ISP could be a good base for that, and if anyone would try it, its probably Norwegian. I think the demand would be there for a 737. Dont see them doing any transatlantic ops like previously mentioned with the short runway. I seem to remember Newsday mentioning Aer Lingus testing the waters with that some years back but without a runway extension it was a nonstarter.

(Also first time poster, long time reader. Grew up flying out of ISP in its heyday, live in NYC now but still interested in the hometown field)

Many European Carriers have stated that ISP May be in their future (Norwegian, WOW, Aer Lingus, and RyanAir to Name a few). I see Norwegian announcing service in 2019 as that is when ISP is able to do International Flights (TSA Thing). I see them announcing DUB, BGO, PTP, FDF, SXM.

They could definitely operate those out of ISP even with the runway being short. Aswell That ISP is working on getting a runway expand in the upcoming years



In the late 8 early 9th they wanted to extend the runway to attract flights from Europe. The residents screamed bloody murder. It was loud with the DC 9/md80 and 727 and 737-200 today you don't get any noise from the airport jets are a lot quite but the time to expand was then. What could have been :/


ISP was pushing and planning on extending Runways 6/24 to 8000 feet and 15R/33L to 6000 feet. But the wave of internal corruption came crashing down and everything came to a halt.

The new airport leadership needs to accelerate FIS growth and runway expansion.

Flyguy
my post are my opinion only and not those of southwest airlines and or airtran airlines.
 
User avatar
varsity
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 1999 4:51 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:27 pm

Balloonchaser wrote:
varsity wrote:
evank516 wrote:

This one has me baffled too. I don't see jetBlue coming to ISP at all unless they can find a niche in ISP-BOS.


Same here. The addition of a major to an already limited market causes yet another player to come in?

For ISP-BOS could Cape Air's equipment do it? They seem to be doing okay with the B6 code shares to the summer islands. If it took off then maybe upgauge to the E190?


It could work, but some people don’t like going up to go back down.. I would love to see that but I don’t think JetBlue is that interested in ISP until we become international... Even then, I don’t think they will add a lot of service (if any)


I agree that what they do there would not be extensive and would likely be the same handful of Florida routes they do at other secondary airports. Also, I would not be surprised if they wait until Frontier gives up on their efforts there. Three LCCs on the same routes would likely be more than the market can support.
AB3, DC8, DC9, DH7, D10, E90, M80, M88, 320, 321, 330, 722, 737, 733, 734, 738, 747, 744, 757, 752, 753, 772
AA, AF, B6, CO, DL, EA, EI, FI, HP, KM, LX, MS, NW, OP, PA, TW, UA, US, VS, W9, WO, YX
 
tphuang
Posts: 1746
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:29 pm

evank516 wrote:
varsity wrote:
Carnival did 727 service to SJU the secondary markets on Puerto Rico (Ponce, Aguadilla) for quite a while IIRC. It wouldn't surprise me too much to see B6 add those or the same Florida cities they run from the other secondary NY airports (SWF, HPN). Nothing major though. It seems like you can fly a plane from anywhere in the Northeast to MCO and people will get on it.


Except the difference between HPN/SWF and ISP is the lack of WN in HPN and SWF. B6 has no one to compete with on nonstop routes to Florida while they would be head to head with WN on those routes out of ISP. In SWF and HPN their competition is connecting options through ATL/CLT/DCA/DTW/PHL.


A couple of things:

B6 has a huge fare advantage over wn out of ewr to fll and mco. Even at wn fortress hub of bwi, b6 gets similar avg fare to fll. With the advantage of their ff base and brand in Long Island and south Florida, it would be surprising to me if they can't at least get similar fares to wn. The question is of course whether or not it's worth it to b6 given Jfk operation up the road.

And maybe they will think it's worth it at some point if they can't get more slots at JFK and can't upgauage anymore. Does isp have gate space available for a small b6 operation?
 
evank516
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:31 pm

varsity wrote:
evank516 wrote:
MesaFlyGuy wrote:

I'm slightly confused; Why would Delta's presence increase the chances of JetBlue coming to ISP?


This one has me baffled too. I don't see jetBlue coming to ISP at all unless they can find a niche in ISP-BOS.


Same here. The addition of a major to an already limited market causes yet another player to come in?

For ISP-BOS could Cape Air's equipment do it? They seem to be doing okay with the B6 code shares to the summer islands. If it took off then maybe upgauge to the E190?


Cape Air could easily handle ISP-BOS, and the demand for ISP-BOS is there, but I just don't see anyone flocking to ISP just to ride on a single engine airplane to BOS. That's why PenAir failed and other carriers attempting the market failed. JetBlue's product is well known on Long Island, and while those in Nassau County will flock to JFK for them, ISP-BOS service can open up opportunities. Remember, B6 feeds a lot of international carriers, and there are markets they serve from BOS that are not available from JFK (CLE, DTW, and soon MSP).
 
User avatar
varsity
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 1999 4:51 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:02 pm

evank516 wrote:
varsity wrote:
evank516 wrote:

This one has me baffled too. I don't see jetBlue coming to ISP at all unless they can find a niche in ISP-BOS.


Same here. The addition of a major to an already limited market causes yet another player to come in?

For ISP-BOS could Cape Air's equipment do it? They seem to be doing okay with the B6 code shares to the summer islands. If it took off then maybe upgauge to the E190?


Cape Air could easily handle ISP-BOS, and the demand for ISP-BOS is there, but I just don't see anyone flocking to ISP just to ride on a single engine airplane to BOS. That's why PenAir failed and other carriers attempting the market failed. JetBlue's product is well known on Long Island, and while those in Nassau County will flock to JFK for them, ISP-BOS service can open up opportunities. Remember, B6 feeds a lot of international carriers, and there are markets they serve from BOS that are not available from JFK (CLE, DTW, and soon MSP).


True! And getting OFF Long Island to go north on 95 is potentially a hellish drive. If the fare and timing is right maybe an E190 would fill up.
AB3, DC8, DC9, DH7, D10, E90, M80, M88, 320, 321, 330, 722, 737, 733, 734, 738, 747, 744, 757, 752, 753, 772
AA, AF, B6, CO, DL, EA, EI, FI, HP, KM, LX, MS, NW, OP, PA, TW, UA, US, VS, W9, WO, YX
 
superjeff
Posts: 1077
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:03 pm

And maybe they will think it's worth it at some point if they can't get more slots at JFK and can't upgauage anymore. Does isp have gate space available for a small b6 operation?[/quote]


No problem with gates, regardless of whether Southwest has to give up leases on the ones it no longer regularly uses. At worst, what they call Concourse B is a bit of a walk from Secruity; but they easily have 3 gates in that area, plus, at best, a similar number of what appear to be unused Soutwest gates in Concourse A (Gates 1, 2,3,4?)
 
evank516
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:07 pm

superjeff wrote:
And maybe they will think it's worth it at some point if they can't get more slots at JFK and can't upgauage anymore. Does isp have gate space available for a small b6 operation?



No problem with gates, regardless of whether Southwest has to give up leases on the ones it no longer regularly uses. At worst, what they call Concourse B is a bit of a walk from Secruity; but they easily have 3 gates in that area, plus, at best, a similar number of what appear to be unused Soutwest gates in Concourse A (Gates 1, 2,3,4?)[/quote]

Did they get rid of the checkpoint near the rotunda between ticketing and baggage claim? There used to be one there and then they had one that led to the new concourse as well. I haven't flown out of ISP in about 10 years so what I remember vs what exists now is totally different.

I think A2-A4 are up for grabs now as WN either doesn't hold a lease on them anymore, or they're shared use. AA took A1 and now uses the jetway since they upgauged to jet service. WN has use of A5-A8 exclusively and F9 is in the B concourse where DL used to operate.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 5:48 pm

varsity wrote:
Am I wrong that it seems like F9 gets into these secondary airports and then abandons them before they've even given the market a chance to develop? I'm thinking of ILG, particularly.


Whereas as TTN, same general area, has been a keeper for Frontier, despite all the naysayers.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
tphuang
Posts: 1746
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:43 pm

superjeff wrote:

No problem with gates, regardless of whether Southwest has to give up leases on the ones it no longer regularly uses. At worst, what they call Concourse B is a bit of a walk from Secruity; but they easily have 3 gates in that area, plus, at best, a similar number of what appear to be unused Soutwest gates in Concourse A (Gates 1, 2,3,4?)

In that case then I see no reason why b6 cannot be successful if they setup an operation with flights to bos pbi fll and mco. In airports Like ewr and dca where b6 and wn both are well known but not dominant, b6 generally do a lot better on these Florida flights.

But right now, they are focused on building Boston and fll hubs and linking them to new destinations.
 
evank516
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 6:57 pm

tphuang wrote:
superjeff wrote:

No problem with gates, regardless of whether Southwest has to give up leases on the ones it no longer regularly uses. At worst, what they call Concourse B is a bit of a walk from Secruity; but they easily have 3 gates in that area, plus, at best, a similar number of what appear to be unused Soutwest gates in Concourse A (Gates 1, 2,3,4?)

In that case then I see no reason why b6 cannot be successful if they setup an operation with flights to bos pbi fll and mco. In airports Like ewr and dca where b6 and wn both are well known but not dominant, b6 generally do a lot better on these Florida flights.

But right now, they are focused on building Boston and fll hubs and linking them to new destinations.


B6 going in on ISP-FLL when WN is on the route and also ramping up FLL is going to be great for the consumer, but bad for the airline. FLL is sort of a bloodbath now between NK, B6, and WN.

I'm betting the reason B6 isn't in ISP is because they don't want to do it if they can't justify Florida. BOS I know they could do, but do they want to open up ISP if they can only justify BOS maybe twice a day?
 
Balloonchaser
Topic Author
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:08 pm

evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
superjeff wrote:

No problem with gates, regardless of whether Southwest has to give up leases on the ones it no longer regularly uses. At worst, what they call Concourse B is a bit of a walk from Secruity; but they easily have 3 gates in that area, plus, at best, a similar number of what appear to be unused Soutwest gates in Concourse A (Gates 1, 2,3,4?)

In that case then I see no reason why b6 cannot be successful if they setup an operation with flights to bos pbi fll and mco. In airports Like ewr and dca where b6 and wn both are well known but not dominant, b6 generally do a lot better on these Florida flights.

But right now, they are focused on building Boston and fll hubs and linking them to new destinations.


B6 going in on ISP-FLL when WN is on the route and also ramping up FLL is going to be great for the consumer, but bad for the airline. FLL is sort of a bloodbath now between NK, B6, and WN.

I'm betting the reason B6 isn't in ISP is because they don't want to do it if they can't justify Florida. BOS I know they could do, but do they want to open up ISP if they can only justify BOS maybe twice a day?


I think JetBlue would actually do very well if they did:

ISP-ALB
ISP-BUF
ISP-BOS
ISP-ROC
ISP-SJU
ISP-FLL
 
evank516
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:09 pm

Balloonchaser wrote:
evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
In that case then I see no reason why b6 cannot be successful if they setup an operation with flights to bos pbi fll and mco. In airports Like ewr and dca where b6 and wn both are well known but not dominant, b6 generally do a lot better on these Florida flights.

But right now, they are focused on building Boston and fll hubs and linking them to new destinations.


B6 going in on ISP-FLL when WN is on the route and also ramping up FLL is going to be great for the consumer, but bad for the airline. FLL is sort of a bloodbath now between NK, B6, and WN.

I'm betting the reason B6 isn't in ISP is because they don't want to do it if they can't justify Florida. BOS I know they could do, but do they want to open up ISP if they can only justify BOS maybe twice a day?


I think JetBlue would actually do very well if they did:

ISP-ALB
ISP-BUF
ISP-BOS
ISP-ROC
ISP-SJU
ISP-FLL


Never
No
Probably
No
Maybe
Yes, but competition is too fierce
 
tphuang
Posts: 1746
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:33 pm

evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
superjeff wrote:

No problem with gates, regardless of whether Southwest has to give up leases on the ones it no longer regularly uses. At worst, what they call Concourse B is a bit of a walk from Secruity; but they easily have 3 gates in that area, plus, at best, a similar number of what appear to be unused Soutwest gates in Concourse A (Gates 1, 2,3,4?)

In that case then I see no reason why b6 cannot be successful if they setup an operation with flights to bos pbi fll and mco. In airports Like ewr and dca where b6 and wn both are well known but not dominant, b6 generally do a lot better on these Florida flights.

But right now, they are focused on building Boston and fll hubs and linking them to new destinations.


B6 going in on ISP-FLL when WN is on the route and also ramping up FLL is going to be great for the consumer, but bad for the airline. FLL is sort of a bloodbath now between NK, B6, and WN.

I'm betting the reason B6 isn't in ISP is because they don't want to do it if they can't justify Florida. BOS I know they could do, but do they want to open up ISP if they can only justify BOS maybe twice a day?


Definitely bad for WN, yes. B6 actually has a RASM advantage over WN at FLL, which is significantly magnified in the NE to Florida market.

This is from Q2
EWR-FLL average fares
WN 111
B6 168
UA 155

DCA-FLL average fares
AA 148 (AA exited after this quarter)
WN 129
B6 159

The only NE markets where WN did better are ALB, BUF, PVD, but nothing as dramatic as B6 advantages on these major population center. And I would say that ISP is far similar market to EWR/DCA to florida than ALB/BUF-FLL.

and for MCO, WN doesn't compete on PBI routes
EWR-MCO
WN 125
B6 155
UA 167

DCA-MCO
AA 147
WN 132
B6 146

could be a reverse LGB situation where B6 can come in and push WN out.
 
Balloonchaser
Topic Author
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Thu Dec 28, 2017 4:05 pm

Hopefully not but maybe :)
 
phluser
Posts: 606
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 2:49 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:17 pm

tphuang wrote:
could be a reverse LGB situation where B6 can come in and push WN out.


While it could be profitable, ISP would be of low strategic value to B6, unlike EWR and DCA, or even BWI. Keep in mind those are primary airports, and in those airport market average fares where B6 excels over WN, B6 has been doing EWR-Florida and DCA-Florida nonstops a lot longer than WN, with more frequency dedicated from B6. Meanwhile WN offers Chicago, Texas, etc. out of those airports as well, and hasn't done a regional focus approach like B6 has done mostly.

B6 might not want to go and fight for WN's market share on ISP-FLL because during the bloodbath period, those potential passengers might have been supporting B6's own JFK-FLL, and the bloodbath might dilute from JFK. There is also an opportunity cost as B6 wants to expand BOS, and wants to diversify in the West, over just adding more capacity on NYC market-Florida.
 
tphuang
Posts: 1746
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:04 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:32 pm

phluser wrote:
tphuang wrote:
could be a reverse LGB situation where B6 can come in and push WN out.


While it could be profitable, ISP would be of low strategic value to B6, unlike EWR and DCA, or even BWI. Keep in mind those are primary airports and in those average fares where B6 excels over WN, B6 has been doing EWR-Florida and DCA-Florida nonstops a lot longer than WN, with more frequency dedicated, while WN does Chicago, Texas, etc. out of those airports as well.

B6 might not want to go and steal WN's market share on ISP-FLL because during the bloodbath period, those potential passengers might have been supporting B6's own JFK-FLL, and the bloodbath might dilute from JFK. There is also an opportunity cost as B6 wants to expand BOS, and wants to diversify in the West, over just more capacity on NYC market-Florida.

I agree with all this. I think they are certainly focused on growing Boston right now. They would only enter isp if sometimes down the line JFK still have the slot restrictions and they can no longer up gauge on those Florida routes. it would have to complement JFK operation. I also don't see why it would be bigger bloodbath than JFK and ewr facing legacies with larger ff base.
 
evank516
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:15 pm

tphuang wrote:
phluser wrote:
tphuang wrote:
could be a reverse LGB situation where B6 can come in and push WN out.


While it could be profitable, ISP would be of low strategic value to B6, unlike EWR and DCA, or even BWI. Keep in mind those are primary airports and in those average fares where B6 excels over WN, B6 has been doing EWR-Florida and DCA-Florida nonstops a lot longer than WN, with more frequency dedicated, while WN does Chicago, Texas, etc. out of those airports as well.

B6 might not want to go and steal WN's market share on ISP-FLL because during the bloodbath period, those potential passengers might have been supporting B6's own JFK-FLL, and the bloodbath might dilute from JFK. There is also an opportunity cost as B6 wants to expand BOS, and wants to diversify in the West, over just more capacity on NYC market-Florida.

I agree with all this. I think they are certainly focused on growing Boston right now. They would only enter isp if sometimes down the line JFK still have the slot restrictions and they can no longer up gauge on those Florida routes. it would have to complement JFK operation. I also don't see why it would be bigger bloodbath than JFK and ewr facing legacies with larger ff base.


This is why I think ISP-BOS would probably be the only feasible option for ISP right now in terms of B6. Grow Boston, feed a market that is there, and the chances of this hurting JFK is minimal at best. They would most likely coexist in harmony.
 
User avatar
varsity
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Aug 14, 1999 4:51 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:59 pm

evank516 wrote:
tphuang wrote:
phluser wrote:

While it could be profitable, ISP would be of low strategic value to B6, unlike EWR and DCA, or even BWI. Keep in mind those are primary airports and in those average fares where B6 excels over WN, B6 has been doing EWR-Florida and DCA-Florida nonstops a lot longer than WN, with more frequency dedicated, while WN does Chicago, Texas, etc. out of those airports as well.

B6 might not want to go and steal WN's market share on ISP-FLL because during the bloodbath period, those potential passengers might have been supporting B6's own JFK-FLL, and the bloodbath might dilute from JFK. There is also an opportunity cost as B6 wants to expand BOS, and wants to diversify in the West, over just more capacity on NYC market-Florida.

I agree with all this. I think they are certainly focused on growing Boston right now. They would only enter isp if sometimes down the line JFK still have the slot restrictions and they can no longer up gauge on those Florida routes. it would have to complement JFK operation. I also don't see why it would be bigger bloodbath than JFK and ewr facing legacies with larger ff base.


This is why I think ISP-BOS would probably be the only feasible option for ISP right now in terms of B6. Grow Boston, feed a market that is there, and the chances of this hurting JFK is minimal at best. They would most likely coexist in harmony.


Yes, does make sense. And B6 had more Florida flights at LGA and moved them to EWR vs adding more, so maybe what there is is sufficient.
AB3, DC8, DC9, DH7, D10, E90, M80, M88, 320, 321, 330, 722, 737, 733, 734, 738, 747, 744, 757, 752, 753, 772
AA, AF, B6, CO, DL, EA, EI, FI, HP, KM, LX, MS, NW, OP, PA, TW, UA, US, VS, W9, WO, YX
 
Balloonchaser
Topic Author
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Fri Dec 29, 2017 12:40 am

So JetBlue is out.... But what about Alaska, Sun Country, Caribbean Airlines, InterJet, etc?
 
klm617
Posts: 2959
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 8:57 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Fri Dec 29, 2017 1:19 am

evank516 wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
WNflyer1523 wrote:

Not too sure about this. Southwest just doesn't seem to care about BNA lately, maybe if they had more connecting destinations out of BNA, ISP-BNA would work. I don't think they'd want to compete with Frontier on ISP-Chicago.

You don’t think that they would want to completely match Frontier?

Frontier:
KATL
KORD
KDTW
KMSP

Southwest:
KATL or KBNA
KMDW
(Forget DTW)
(Forget MSP)


I'm still maintaining that DL will be watching how F9 performs on ISP-ATL/DTW. If it does well I do think DL will return.




Delta is not coming to ISP for the simple reason it doesn't want to divert passengers away from their JFK operation if you are loyal to DL they are betting on you driving to JFK to access their flights.
the truth does matter, guys. too bad it's often quite subjective. the truth is beyond the mere facts and figures. it's beyond good and bad, right and wrong...
 
evank516
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:27 pm

klm617 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
Balloonchaser wrote:
You don’t think that they would want to completely match Frontier?

Frontier:
KATL
KORD
KDTW
KMSP

Southwest:
KATL or KBNA
KMDW
(Forget DTW)
(Forget MSP)


I'm still maintaining that DL will be watching how F9 performs on ISP-ATL/DTW. If it does well I do think DL will return.




Delta is not coming to ISP for the simple reason it doesn't want to divert passengers away from their JFK operation if you are loyal to DL they are betting on you driving to JFK to access their flights.


DL flew to ISP in the past, and I'm betting they will fly there again. Flying ISP-ATL/DTW will not divert anyone from JFK or LGA. It's just more flights to Atlanta or Detroit, and DL doesn't have an issue adding them in markets that overlap. See: All of Florida, Houston, Chicago, Dallas/Ft. Worth, LA Basin, San Francisco Bay Area, Washington DC, NYC (JFK, LGA, HPN, SWF, EWR), Cleveland/Akron. I think I made my point.
 
GuruJanitor
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:50 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:51 pm

Balloonchaser wrote:
So JetBlue is out.... But what about Alaska, Sun Country, Caribbean Airlines, InterJet, etc?


I still think Norwegian’s carribbean flights would do well there. So many people on Long Island do yearly trips to Aruba and Puerto Rico. Those two alone could support 2 or 3 weekly flights out of ISP I think. Aruba has preclearance as well, no need to wait for the CBP facility to be built.
 
Balloonchaser
Topic Author
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:29 pm

I don’t think that Norwegian would attempt those airports yet (I don’t think there LGW-SJU seasonal B789 Flight last year did so good)

Now ISP-SXM, ISP-FDF, ISP-PTP... Probably possible. For Aruba and San Juan, I see either Southwest or Frontier picking up those routes or JetBlue coming in for ISP - Caribbean
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:24 pm

Balloonchaser wrote:

I think JetBlue would actually do very well if they did:

ISP-ALB
ISP-BUF
ISP-BOS
ISP-ROC
ISP-SJU
ISP-FLL


No
No
Possibly
No
Depends on the season
Yes, but like Evan said, competition would be too fierce with WN ISP-FLL, ISP-PBI, and F9 ISP-PBI and ISP-MIA.
 
Balloonchaser
Topic Author
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:38 am

Frontier has announced that they will be dropping the ISP-MSY route by late March.

Thoughts?
 
joelfreak
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:13 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:59 am

Honestly, of all routes, how could F9 not make ISP-MIA work? That would be a gimme for any carrier I would think...
 
Balloonchaser
Topic Author
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:05 am

The loads were not what they expected. I do see that route coming back next year when they start taking deliveries of new aircraft
 
Art at ISP
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 10:31 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:30 am

I think Frontier will continue to drop routes left and right for the next year at least. It will take a real airline (read legacy or B6) to make ISP a relevant station in my opinion. Most of my fellow business flyers and I would rather drive than fly F9. It is a leisure carrier. In a perfect world AA to DCA and CLT would be excellent, and a DL to ATL and or DTW.....

It's really sad, I love flying out of ISP, and in the early 2000s I did every week, but at the present time PHL is not an option for me....
 
joelfreak
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:13 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:08 pm

Art at ISP wrote:
I think Frontier will continue to drop routes left and right for the next year at least. It will take a real airline (read legacy or B6) to make ISP a relevant station in my opinion. Most of my fellow business flyers and I would rather drive than fly F9. It is a leisure carrier. In a perfect world AA to DCA and CLT would be excellent, and a DL to ATL and or DTW.....

It's really sad, I love flying out of ISP, and in the early 2000s I did every week, but at the present time PHL is not an option for me....


I agree a real airline needs to service ISP, but if there is a leisure route, its ISP-MIA/FLL.
 
Art at ISP
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 10:31 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:42 pm

joelfreak wrote:
Art at ISP wrote:
I think Frontier will continue to drop routes left and right for the next year at least. It will take a real airline (read legacy or B6) to make ISP a relevant station in my opinion. Most of my fellow business flyers and I would rather drive than fly F9. It is a leisure carrier. In a perfect world AA to DCA and CLT would be excellent, and a DL to ATL and or DTW.....

It's really sad, I love flying out of ISP, and in the early 2000s I did every week, but at the present time PHL is not an option for me....


I agree a real airline needs to service ISP, but if there is a leisure route, its ISP-MIA/FLL.


Yes, but Miami is also a business destination, at least more so than FLL. It's also a connecting point to AA's Latin network.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 2734
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:50 pm

As of now, focus on what F9 can do with DTW and ATL, because adding both of these on Delta is going to provide great connectivity for LI. DTW will connect ISP with the west and PNW, while ATL will connect ISP with the south, Florida and Texas. 3x CR9 to ATL and 2x CR7 to DTW.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

*Future Route Network Planner*
 
joelfreak
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:13 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:56 pm

flymco753 wrote:
As of now, focus on what F9 can do with DTW and ATL, because adding both of these on Delta is going to provide great connectivity for LI. DTW will connect ISP with the west and PNW, while ATL will connect ISP with the south, Florida and Texas. 3x CR9 to ATL and 2x CR7 to DTW.

Did I miss a DL announcement?
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 2734
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:00 pm

joelfreak wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
As of now, focus on what F9 can do with DTW and ATL, because adding both of these on Delta is going to provide great connectivity for LI. DTW will connect ISP with the west and PNW, while ATL will connect ISP with the south, Florida and Texas. 3x CR9 to ATL and 2x CR7 to DTW.

Did I miss a DL announcement?
No that's my prediction. A stronger regional market would mean more money. Nobody knew that DTW-MYR was going to be so strong until Spirit went in on it and Delta found out that it was worthy of daily CR7 service. F9 is also pretty successful in TTN, but with an already small operation at PHL, it wouldn't make sense, but ISP is a whole different ball game.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

*Future Route Network Planner*
 
evank516
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:34 pm

flymco753 wrote:
As of now, focus on what F9 can do with DTW and ATL, because adding both of these on Delta is going to provide great connectivity for LI. DTW will connect ISP with the west and PNW, while ATL will connect ISP with the south, Florida and Texas. 3x CR9 to ATL and 2x CR7 to DTW.


I think ISP-ATL might even be mainline material to be honest. With all of those 717s going in and out of ATL I can't imagine at least one of those flights (probably an RON) wouldn't be mainline. DTW however, yes RJs all the way. But I think ATL can support mainline especially given the vast amount of connections it opens up.
 
User avatar
flymco753
Posts: 2734
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 2:09 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:36 pm

evank516 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
As of now, focus on what F9 can do with DTW and ATL, because adding both of these on Delta is going to provide great connectivity for LI. DTW will connect ISP with the west and PNW, while ATL will connect ISP with the south, Florida and Texas. 3x CR9 to ATL and 2x CR7 to DTW.


I think ISP-ATL might even be mainline material to be honest. With all of those 717s going in and out of ATL I can't imagine at least one of those flights (probably an RON) wouldn't be mainline. DTW however, yes RJs all the way. But I think ATL can support mainline especially given the vast amount of connections it opens up.
That'd probably mean less frequencies though, so more like 2x 717 to ATL and 1x CR7 to DTW.
Resort, and other ground transportation options are on level 1.

*Future Route Network Planner*
 
evank516
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:28 pm

flymco753 wrote:
evank516 wrote:
flymco753 wrote:
As of now, focus on what F9 can do with DTW and ATL, because adding both of these on Delta is going to provide great connectivity for LI. DTW will connect ISP with the west and PNW, while ATL will connect ISP with the south, Florida and Texas. 3x CR9 to ATL and 2x CR7 to DTW.


I think ISP-ATL might even be mainline material to be honest. With all of those 717s going in and out of ATL I can't imagine at least one of those flights (probably an RON) wouldn't be mainline. DTW however, yes RJs all the way. But I think ATL can support mainline especially given the vast amount of connections it opens up.
That'd probably mean less frequencies though, so more like 2x 717 to ATL and 1x CR7 to DTW.


That sounds about right though. At least for ISP-ATL. However any mainline for ISP-ATL probably won't have any bearing on ISP-DTW, though I would expect that to be 3x CRJ for now.
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 9:04 pm

The same article that states the end of iSP-MIA/RSW is saying Frontier will announce new routes out of ISP later this week. Thoughts on what they could be? I'm going with MYR and LAS
 
Balloonchaser
Topic Author
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:03 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
The same article that states the end of iSP-MIA/RSW is saying Frontier will announce new routes out of ISP later this week. Thoughts on what they could be? I'm going with MYR and LAS

I’ll put my money on - DEN, LAS, MYR. I also see CLT as being a possibility. Could SJU Be an option though?
 
NBGSkyGod
Posts: 855
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 7:30 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:52 pm

So it looks like ISP is getting MYR and SJU.
Pilots are idiots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
 
evank516
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:14 pm

For now. I can't possibly see these lasting.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:07 pm

evank516 wrote:
For now. I can't possibly see these lasting.


Not past early Fall, no - they're seasonal routes:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... es-445736/

"Frontier unveils 35 mostly seasonal routes"

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
Balloonchaser
Topic Author
Posts: 267
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2017 11:29 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:51 pm

So my question is... MIA and RSW.. The Article says that they are ending those routes early for the season. So are they coming back next season?!?
 
User avatar
Frontier14
Posts: 522
Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:37 pm

Balloonchaser wrote:
So my question is... MIA and RSW.. The Article says that they are ending those routes early for the season. So are they coming back next season?!?


We will not know until next season. :confused: :confused:

Frontier 14
 
Art at ISP
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 10:31 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:22 pm

The locals are not happy with Frontier.....https://www.newsday.com/long-island/tra ... 1.16803552

This is why ISP needs to attract a "real" airline, and why the F9 experiment will likely fail.
 
FLYKTPA
Posts: 369
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:56 pm

Re: The Future of ISP

Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:36 pm

Art at ISP wrote:
The locals are not happy with Frontier.....https://www.newsday.com/long-island/tra ... 1.16803552

This is why ISP needs to attract a "real" airline, and why the F9 experiment will likely fail.

What exactly is a “real” airline?
Huge fan of Tampa International Airport
 
Art at ISP
Posts: 196
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2001 10:31 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:49 pm

A "real" airline is one with a more traditional business model or a hybrid carrier, like UA, DL, AA or B6. Specifically eliminated are Frontier, Spirit and those airlines who have poor customer service during irregular ops and who nickel and dime you for everything.
 
User avatar
mariner
Posts: 19473
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2001 7:29 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:04 pm

Art at ISP wrote:
A "real" airline is one with a more traditional business model or a hybrid carrier, like UA, DL, AA or B6. Specifically eliminated are Frontier, Spirit and those airlines who have poor customer service during irregular ops and who nickel and dime you for everything.


Frontier's presence at ISP does nothing to inhibit another airline - a "real" airline LOL - from setting up shop at the airport. It's just that there isn't a long line of airlines anxIous to do so.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
WNflyer1523
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:28 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:12 pm

Regarding Delta, I could see them coming into ISP, starting off with ATL, and if DTW does good on F9 then maybe that too.
My thoughts:
ATL would be 3x daily, 2x on a CRJ7 and then 1x on a RON 717.
DTW would be 3x daily, likely all CRJ2.
 
evank516
Posts: 1304
Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:15 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Mar 13, 2018 2:43 pm

WNflyer1523 wrote:
Regarding Delta, I could see them coming into ISP, starting off with ATL, and if DTW does good on F9 then maybe that too.
My thoughts:
ATL would be 3x daily, 2x on a CRJ7 and then 1x on a RON 717.
DTW would be 3x daily, likely all CRJ2.


This probably makes the most sense out of anything. Though it could be 1x 717 RON and 2x CR9 to ATL too. Either would probably be a good fit, but mainline would definitely happen on the RON like they do with many similar sized airports.
 
NBGSkyGod
Posts: 855
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 7:30 am

Re: The Future of ISP

Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:16 pm

I think a lot of carriers could make a go at ISP, however the town needs to upgrade and make additions to the B gates before anyone will even attempt it.
Pilots are idiots, who at any given moment will attempt to kill themselves or others.
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos