With the next schedule extension coming, what things do you see happening for Spirit? What would you like to see? Please be serious in this discussion, because we arent putting credit card machines at the bathrooms or charging extra for air.

I think this is the extension that BNA or AUS could happen. I believe BNA could start with service to DFW, FLL and DTW while AUS could begin with MSY, EWR, BWI, FLL, DTW, CLE and PIT.

I can also see service additions to other markets like DTW to BDL, EWR, PHX and SAN. BWI to BDL, EWR/LGA, PHX. MSY to PIT and MCI.

I really want to know what you think of existing NEO orders being converted back to CEO orders, what do you think has gone wrong with the engines, and is F9 having these same issues?

Is NK an exact mach for F9's offering or could that be a smart move for Allegiant?

I agree on DTW to EWR, PHX, and SAN. I think that in addition to those three routes BNA to MCO, TPA, BWI, and ORD could be possibilities. For my home airport of SEA I could see NK making IAH year round and starting either OAK, PHX, or SAN. IMO a CSeries order is almost inevitable, to replace the A319 and open smaller cities like CMH, ORF, MKE, IND, and SAT.

^There'd be a pretty big fight for MCO at BNA if that happens, as of now there's 2 year round carriers and DL in the winter so I think the market size and amount of seats already offered, the market would become saturated, same with TPA the only difference is TPA is slightly smaller than MCO without a legacy. I was thinking BWI too, ORD might be a stretch with AA and UA, I don't think NK wants to mess with AA too much since they compete pretty aggressively with NK. I saw DTW-SEA is upgauged to a 320 next spring so that's a good sign that there's a niche for NK, I think. Than the next few stations NK could open are RDU and JAX.

I've heard that MSY will get three additional destinations (in addition to the recently announced BOS/EWR/MSP/TPA) for a March or April start.

I really think that if NK could replicate what Airtran did in FNT that FNT would be a great add for NK with flights to LAS, MCO, RSW TPA and FLL. People really like the ease of access there plus the cheaper parking. I think they could do a lot better than Allegiant fly to secondary airports in Florida and also think Allegiant is missing the boat by not flying FNT-LAS. As far as Detroit goes I think DTW-SAN would be a great add. Still don't see them going for such short segment flights like BNA and BDL.. I think NK should do more Detroit Caribbean flying like Aruba and St. Maarten,

I'll add IND could be an option. Not many options in FL, if any at all, but places like DFW could use a low cost carrier to IND, and I don't see F9 touching those cities for IND.

iFlyDTW wrote:

With the next schedule extension coming, what things do you see happening for Spirit? What would you like to see? Please be serious in this discussion, because we arent putting credit card machines at the bathrooms or charging extra for air.

I think this is the extension that BNA or AUS could happen. I believe BNA could start with service to DFW, FLL and DTW while AUS could begin with MSY, EWR, BWI, FLL, DTW, CLE and PIT.

I can also see service additions to other markets like DTW to BDL, EWR, PHX and SAN. BWI to BDL, EWR/LGA, PHX. MSY to PIT and MCI.

I really want to know what you think of existing NEO orders being converted back to CEO orders, what do you think has gone wrong with the engines, and is F9 having these same issues?

Is NK an exact mach for F9's offering or could that be a smart move for Allegiant?

What day will the schedule extension come out?

I'm going to throw in STL/BLV

Will Spirit be announcing DFW-SEA nonstop service?

klm617 wrote:

I really think that if NK could replicate what Airtran did in FNT that FNT would be a great add for NK with flights to LAS, MCO, RSW TPA and FLL. People really like the ease of access there plus the cheaper parking. I think they could do a lot better than Allegiant fly to secondary airports in Florida and also think Allegiant is missing the boat by not flying FNT-LAS. As far as Detroit goes I think DTW-SAN would be a great add. Still don't see them going for such short segment flights like BNA and BDL.. I think NK should do more Detroit Caribbean flying like Aruba and St. Maarten,

I don't know about FNT... I don't think that NK has been very successful in CAK, another FL-style market, and besides, NK already serves LAS, MCO, RSW, TPA, and FLL from DTW so it's not like there's any shortage of ULCC flights for FNT, people just need to drive to DTW to get them.

jplatts wrote:

Will Spirit be announcing DFW-SEA nonstop service?

Perhaps. The market is fairly saturated, however, with AA being anywhere from 6 to 10 daily, AS being twice daily to DAL and 1-3 daily to DFW, and WN to DAL, and rumors of DL resuming the route next year. It's not impossible that they would add it though.

zackary747 wrote:

I'll add IND could be an option. Not many options in FL, if any at all, but places like DFW could use a low cost carrier to IND, and I don't see F9 touching those cities for IND.

DFW FLL LAS LAX

Seasonal: RSW, MCO, maybe even PBI

NK's fares (similar to G4) can make virtually any Midwest to FL city pair work, at least seasonally.

Midwestindy wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

I'll add IND could be an option. Not many options in FL, if any at all, but places like DFW could use a low cost carrier to IND, and I don't see F9 touching those cities for IND.

DFW FLL LAS LAX

Seasonal: RSW, MCO, maybe even PBI

NK's fares (similar to G4) can make virtually any Midwest to FL city pair work, at least seasonally.

G4 serves IND-FLL/LAS/PGD/SFB today, and I see them adding IND-LAX with the base opening up.

While not a ULCC, WN serves IND-DAL.

There isn't much room to grow IND to those cities, even with the Indy area growing big-time. For example, IND-Orlando is currently flown about 7x a day by WN/G4/DL/F9, and I don't think there's room for a fifth carrier. If anything, G4 will add frequencies.

And let's keep in mind that SY plans to enter IND soon when they morph into a ULCC, which means that between all the incumbents and SY, all the oxygen will be sucked out of IND for new leisure route entrants.

SunsetLimited wrote:

I've heard that MSY will get three additional destinations (in addition to the recently announced BOS/EWR/MSP/TPA) for a March or April start.

Impressive growth - if so, that would make 10 new destinations in a year. I wonder if any of those will be international. I wouldn't be surprised to see CUN and SAP, maybe MBJ. Domestically I think SAN, PHX, and DEN will be next in line. I could see PIT, OAK, and maybe SEA eventually. I did hear a rumor from a FA (not that I put much stock in it) that NK may be planning to open a base at MSY.

FWAERJ wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

I'll add IND could be an option. Not many options in FL, if any at all, but places like DFW could use a low cost carrier to IND, and I don't see F9 touching those cities for IND.

DFW FLL LAS LAX

Seasonal: RSW, MCO, maybe even PBI

NK's fares (similar to G4) can make virtually any Midwest to FL city pair work, at least seasonally.

G4 serves IND-FLL/LAS/PGD/SFB today, and I see them adding IND-LAX with the base opening up.

While not a ULCC, WN serves IND-DAL.

There isn't much room to grow IND to those cities, even with the Indy area growing big-time. For example, IND-Orlando is currently flown about 7x a day by WN/G4/DL/F9, and I don't think there's room for a fifth carrier. If anything, G4 will add frequencies.

And let's keep in mind that SY plans to enter IND soon when they morph into a ULCC, which means that between all the incumbents and SY, all the oxygen will be sucked out of IND for new leisure route entrants.

Yes, but the IND-Florida market is extremely large for a city its size(a little more than 2,250-2,500 PDEW from IND-FL), MCO/SFB is the largest market out of IND during Q1, RSW/PGD is 3rd, MIA/FLL is 5th, TPA/PIE 6th, and LAX 7th. If you don't believe me take RSW for example, RSW's 7th largest market is IND (which is bigger than DEN/ATL/DFW/PHL).

Also keep in mind that F9/G4 are usually less than daily on most routes, so I am pretty confident NK would be successful in IND regardless of what G4/SY/F9 have planned for IND....

Furthermore, the LF for MCO/SFB-IND Jan-June 2017 is 86%+ so it isn't like there isn't demand...

DFW and LAX I am sure would be successful, as they have lots of PDEW and currently have no ULCC on either route.(although I expect for G4 to add IND-LAX soon)

I'm just happy to see some
Love shown to NK on this website.

I'm just happy to see some
Love shown to NK on this website. They don't get much.

On that note I wonder if the international expansion they talked about is comming.

What is their current fleet plan? How many new frames are being delivered in the next few years?

Anyone know the exact day that Spirit is extending their schedules?

zackary747 wrote:

Anyone know the exact day that Spirit is extending their schedules?

That is what I am wondering too.

Anyone....... anyone........ Bueller?

What gets me in all these discussions about Spirit is the commentary on how they won't begin or try a market because there's too many carriers on the route. If they were worried about that, they wouldn't be on half the routes they serve.

Spirit has proven time and time and time again, they don't care. Do they always stay on a route? No. They'll do what works best for their fleet utilization, but they certainly have not stayed away from markets because there's 20 other carriers on the route.

As for the future -
Would not be surprised to see a few more connections out of their current network, perhaps more from Newark.

As far as new cities, I am surprised they haven't come into St. Louis, Columbus, or Indianapolis. I'm sure there are whatever-the-reasons for STL and CMH, for IND, Spirit probably isn't getting a good negotiation on the rent/operating costs.

ADrum23 wrote:

zackary747 wrote:

Anyone know the exact day that Spirit is extending their schedules?

That is what I am wondering too.

Anyone....... anyone........ Bueller?

Spirits doesn't normally specify dates for schedule extensions or new routes. The exception would be maybe if they are announcing a new station.

stlgph wrote:

What gets me in all these discussions about Spirit is the commentary on how they won't begin or try a market because there's too many carriers on the route. If they were worried about that, they wouldn't be on half the routes they serve.

Spirit has proven time and time and time again, they don't care. Do they always stay on a route? No. They'll do what works best for their fleet utilization, but they certainly have not stayed away from markets because there's 20 other carriers on the route.

As for the future -
Would not be surprised to see a few more connections out of their current network, perhaps more from Newark.

As far as new cities, I am surprised they haven't come into St. Louis, Columbus, or Indianapolis. I'm sure there are whatever-the-reasons for STL and CMH, for IND, Spirit probably isn't getting a good negotiation on the rent/operating costs.

This is correct - the routes without competition are the exception rather than the rule. One thing I've noticed is that they are connecting the existing cities more thoroughly and creating more connecting opportunities alla southwest. They aren't opening stations with 1-2 flights per day like they used to.

stlgph wrote:

What gets me in all these discussions about Spirit is the commentary on how they won't begin or try a market because there's too many carriers on the route. If they were worried about that, they wouldn't be on half the routes they serve.

Spirit has proven time and time and time again, they don't care. Do they always stay on a route? No. They'll do what works best for their fleet utilization, but they certainly have not stayed away from markets because there's 20 other carriers on the route.

As for the future -
Would not be surprised to see a few more connections out of their current network, perhaps more from Newark.

As far as new cities, I am surprised they haven't come into St. Louis, Columbus, or Indianapolis. I'm sure there are whatever-the-reasons for STL and CMH, for IND, Spirit probably isn't getting a good negotiation on the rent/operating costs.

As far as CMH, STL. and IND goes. Negotiations sometimes takes time. I say we gotta be a little patient. Can't start service even to strong markets too quickly. There's a right time for everything.

Without PILOTS... under a reasonable contract, this is a pie in the sky!

zackary747 wrote:

stlgph wrote:

What gets me in all these discussions about Spirit is the commentary on how they won't begin or try a market because there's too many carriers on the route. If they were worried about that, they wouldn't be on half the routes they serve.

Spirit has proven time and time and time again, they don't care. Do they always stay on a route? No. They'll do what works best for their fleet utilization, but they certainly have not stayed away from markets because there's 20 other carriers on the route.

As for the future -
Would not be surprised to see a few more connections out of their current network, perhaps more from Newark.

As far as new cities, I am surprised they haven't come into St. Louis, Columbus, or Indianapolis. I'm sure there are whatever-the-reasons for STL and CMH, for IND, Spirit probably isn't getting a good negotiation on the rent/operating costs.

As far as CMH, STL. and IND goes. Negotiations sometimes takes time. I say we gotta be a little patient. Can't start service even to strong markets too quickly. There's a right time for everything.

I would personally rather just see Frontier and Allegiant expanding STL than Spirit come in. Allegiant seems to have a good thing going at BLV, which I think is good for the region and F9 is good enough for STL. Unless Spirit is going to bring more people to the airport that wouldn't be flying already, I am good without them. That said, it is always fun to have a new carrier but it doesn't hurt my feelings for them to not be here. The routes I would really like to see a ULCC on they won't fly.

Jshank83 wrote:

I would personally rather just see Frontier and Allegiant expanding STL than Spirit come in. Allegiant seems to have a good thing going at BLV, which I think is good for the region and F9 is good enough for STL. Unless Spirit is going to bring more people to the airport that wouldn't be flying already, I am good without them. That said, it is always fun to have a new carrier but it doesn't hurt my feelings for them to not be here. The routes I would really like to see a ULCC on they won't fly.

Why not all three options?

Trololzilla wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

I would personally rather just see Frontier and Allegiant expanding STL than Spirit come in. Allegiant seems to have a good thing going at BLV, which I think is good for the region and F9 is good enough for STL. Unless Spirit is going to bring more people to the airport that wouldn't be flying already, I am good without them. That said, it is always fun to have a new carrier but it doesn't hurt my feelings for them to not be here. The routes I would really like to see a ULCC on they won't fly.

Why not all three options?

I don't want to see routes cut by other airlines because Spirit starts them. Maybe Spirit wouldn't have much of an effect but if it will then I don't want it. For example, AA is cutting LAX at MCI. Would that have been cut is Spirit wasn't around? Maybe it wouldn't have mattered but if it did have an effect on it being cut then I don't want things like that happening in STL. Same with Allegiant cutting Vegas at MCI. I don't want Frontier or Allegiant cutting it here because Spirit moves in. If Spirit were to come in and start routes to Chicago/Boston/New York/Houston and get those fares cheaper that's one thing but I know those aren't routes they will start.

Jshank83 wrote:

Trololzilla wrote:

Jshank83 wrote:

I would personally rather just see Frontier and Allegiant expanding STL than Spirit come in. Allegiant seems to have a good thing going at BLV, which I think is good for the region and F9 is good enough for STL. Unless Spirit is going to bring more people to the airport that wouldn't be flying already, I am good without them. That said, it is always fun to have a new carrier but it doesn't hurt my feelings for them to not be here. The routes I would really like to see a ULCC on they won't fly.

Why not all three options?

I don't want to see routes cut by other airlines because Spirit starts them. Maybe Spirit wouldn't have much of an effect but if it will then I don't want it. For example, AA is cutting LAX at MCI. Would that have been cut is Spirit wasn't around? Maybe it wouldn't have mattered but if it did have an effect on it being cut then I don't want things like that happening in STL. Same with Allegiant cutting Vegas at MCI. I don't want Frontier or Allegiant cutting it here because Spirit moves in. If Spirit were to come in and start routes to Chicago/Boston/New York/Houston and get those fares cheaper that's one thing but I know those aren't routes they will start.

Good point. LAX-MCI is currently served by 4 carriers and AA was the last entrant into the market - essentially entering a blood bath. Same with Allegiant and LAS. Currently served by 3 carriers and they were the last entrant.

I'll take back what I said about NK not doing MCO, I think it can work but on a seasonal basis, I would not start this route year round. PDEW is at maximum 800 each way. WN during Q1 runs 6 flights (DL, F9, WN), in 6 flights alone there is an excess of seats that WN fills with connections.

flymco753 wrote:

I'll take back what I said about NK not doing MCO, I think it can work but on a seasonal basis, I would not start this route year round. PDEW is at maximum 800 each way. WN during Q1 runs 6 flights (DL, F9, WN), in 6 flights alone there is an excess of seats that WN fills with connections.

Are you sure that 800 PDEW number is right? Q1 '16 MCI-MCO PDEW was 473....

Midwestindy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

I'll take back what I said about NK not doing MCO, I think it can work but on a seasonal basis, I would not start this route year round. PDEW is at maximum 800 each way. WN during Q1 runs 6 flights (DL, F9, WN), in 6 flights alone there is an excess of seats that WN fills with connections.

Are you sure that 800 PDEW number is right? Q1 '16 MCI-MCO PDEW was 473....

The initial number is divided by 2 to get each way right? I'm using BTS T-100.

flymco753 wrote:

Midwestindy wrote:

flymco753 wrote:

I'll take back what I said about NK not doing MCO, I think it can work but on a seasonal basis, I would not start this route year round. PDEW is at maximum 800 each way. WN during Q1 runs 6 flights (DL, F9, WN), in 6 flights alone there is an excess of seats that WN fills with connections.

Are you sure that 800 PDEW number is right? Q1 '16 MCI-MCO PDEW was 473....

The initial number is divided by 2 to get each way right? I'm using BTS T-100.

Ah yes, 405 in Q1 '16, with WN running 4x daily, F9 5x weekly, and DL 1x Saturday there's plenty of seats. The market kind of seems saturated now with both WN and F9 on it. Maybe BNA-MCO isn't so smart than, but FLL can cater to connections so FLL might work for BNA.

I heard from a friend who works ramp back home in BDL and he said someone who does the ground/ramp stuff for NK at BDL said that NK is going up to 12 flights a day at BDL. Makes sense, they're doing well. The BDL-MYR LF is over 95% since it started, and it would make sense they start BWI-BDL and DTW-BDL to compete with WN's full flights always on BWI-BDL and Delta's high fares and being the sole carrier doing DTW-BDL.

SCHATC422 wrote:

I heard from a friend who works ramp back home in BDL and he said someone who does the ground/ramp stuff for NK at BDL said that NK is going up to 12 flights a day at BDL. Makes sense, they're doing well. The BDL-MYR LF is over 95% since it started, and it would make sense they start BWI-BDL and DTW-BDL to compete with WN's full flights always on BWI-BDL and Delta's high fares and being the sole carrier doing DTW-BDL.

DTW-BWI, in my opinion would do fairly well on a summer seasonal basis. PDEW is quite healthy and DTW can offer onward connections in the summer to SEA, OAK, LAX, LAS, DFW and ATL since they're all part of the 7-8pm bank, so if BDL gets in around 6:30 I'd imagine it could work well with connections. BWI wouldn't be bad because they'd serve mid day connections.

Well see, lot of nice things to come. I havent heard much about IND or CMH though.

xdlx wrote:

Without PILOTS... under a reasonable contract, this is a pie in the sky!

flymco753 wrote:

SCHATC422 wrote:

I heard from a friend who works ramp back home in BDL and he said someone who does the ground/ramp stuff for NK at BDL said that NK is going up to 12 flights a day at BDL. Makes sense, they're doing well. The BDL-MYR LF is over 95% since it started, and it would make sense they start BWI-BDL and DTW-BDL to compete with WN's full flights always on BWI-BDL and Delta's high fares and being the sole carrier doing DTW-BDL.

DTW-BWI, in my opinion would do fairly well on a summer seasonal basis. PDEW is quite healthy and DTW can offer onward connections in the summer to SEA, OAK, LAX, LAS, DFW and ATL since they're all part of the 7-8pm bank, so if BDL gets in around 6:30 I'd imagine it could work well with connections. BWI wouldn't be bad because they'd serve mid day connections.

I agree. Here in BWI, NK keeps slowly building their presence and adding a few new routes (previously discussed months ago with the addition of CUN and one other starting in November), NK could certainly make BWI-BDL work I'd say twice or three times a day tops.