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mmx747
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Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:38 pm

(I'm sure this has been discussed before.)

Do you see Norwegian launching LGW-HNL or WOW launching KEF-HNL as a seasonal route in the near future? They can at least try it out for 1 season. Or perhaps some other European airline. Please let me know what you think.

Thank you.
 
sevenair
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:49 pm

It's a very niche route from what I can see. TBH there's little HNL has to offer that isn't available much closer to home. Yes, you'll get those going for the status or a genuine desire to visit but I doubt it's a sustainable route long term.
 
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BWIAirport
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:34 pm

I think this'll be the topic that replaces the 'BNA TATL service?' every week now.

Honestly, I could see Norwegian or Wow launching this flight 2x weekly or something. I think there is some merit to the concept of "creating demand"; for example, I don't know how many Baltimoreans were dying to go to Iceland until Wow made it such a great deal they couldn't turn it down. Low fares and good connections and they could make any flight work, this one included.
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32andBelow
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:38 pm

It's 6100 miles. Can WoW even do that?
 
77H
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:02 pm

sevenair wrote:
It's a very niche route from what I can see. TBH there's little HNL has to offer that isn't available much closer to home. Yes, you'll get those going for the status or a genuine desire to visit but I doubt it's a sustainable route long term.


There have been charters from various points around Europe to Hawaii in the past meaning that there is sporadic demand out there. That said, charters are different than scheduled service, even if only operated a few times a week or month.

I could at most maybe see a Long Haul LCC operating a few flights nonstop: Europe to Hawaii on a limited basis during really peak travel periods. I think the main factor playing against a EUR-HI nonstop is the fact that there are so many 1 stop offerings on network carriers already. It is possible to get from most Major European cities to HNL with one stop over, many on the same airline or at least within the same airline alliance. The only plus side I could see to a nonstop would be that connecting passengers would not have to clear customs on their layover in the US. Though you can circumvent that by routing over Canada today where there are multiple one stops available as well.

To say that there isn't demand because there are options closer to home I feel is inaccurate. I say this while hosting a couple from Estonia at my apartment this week. I have meet countless European visitors here in HNL and most of them have already traveled to the usual "closer to home" contenders. I imagine that many of the European travels you claim are going for status are simply looking for something new. People often bring up this same argument on the SPAC-HI threads. "Why go to Hawaii when there are closer places to visit?" If you're an Aussie or Kiwi I imagine after your 12th trip to Fiji, Bali, etc, you're ready for some new scenery and a new adventure.

77H
 
hnl808
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:28 pm

77H wrote:
sevenair wrote:
I imagine that many of the European travels you claim are going for status are simply looking for something new. People often bring up this same argument on the SPAC-HI threads. "Why go to Hawaii when there are closer places to visit?" If you're an Aussie or Kiwi I imagine after your 12th trip to Fiji, Bali, etc, you're ready for some new scenery and a new adventure.

77H


I agree with you 100%. If that was the case you wouldn't see HA/NZ increasing their HNL-AKL capacity as well as JQ and QF operating to HNL with very high load factors. Just because somewhere else is closer it does not mean that is the best option.

Back to the original topic, I would agree that we will eventually see a carrier offer seasonal service, with the possibility of year around service. As of July 2017, visitor arrivals from the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy and Switzerland increased in July 2017 (+3.1% to 16,428) versus last year. Through the first seven months, arrivals have declined (-2.4% to 73,469) compared to last year.

http://hawaiitourismauthority.org/default/assets/File/news/17-30%20July%202017%20Visitor%20Stats%20Press%20Release%20(final).pdf

Based on those number there are more travelers coming to Hawaii then from NZ, which HNL currently has direct service from. The market is there, now it is a matter of which carrier can make it work.
 
superjeff
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:33 pm

[quote="77HI could at most maybe see a Long Haul LCC operating a few flights nonstop: Europe to Hawaii on a limited basis during really peak travel periods. I think the main factor playing against a EUR-HI nonstop is the fact that there are so many 1 stop offerings on network carriers already. It is possible to get from most Major European cities to HNL with one stop over, many on the same airline or at least within the same airline alliance. The only plus side I could see to a nonstop would be that connecting passengers would not have to clear customs on their layover in the US. Though you can circumvent that by routing over Canada today where there are multiple one stops available as well.

why would that be an issue? Hawaii is a state of the U.S., so anybody traveling there would have to clear immigration and customs at the first point of arrival in the U.S. If that's HNL, they would clear customs there; if they stop in JFK, ORD, DFW, LAX, etc., they would clear customs there and the remaining flight(s) would be domestic.
 
77H
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:46 pm

superjeff wrote:
[quote="77HI could at most maybe see a Long Haul LCC operating a few flights nonstop: Europe to Hawaii on a limited basis during really peak travel periods. I think the main factor playing against a EUR-HI nonstop is the fact that there are so many 1 stop offerings on network carriers already. It is possible to get from most Major European cities to HNL with one stop over, many on the same airline or at least within the same airline alliance. The only plus side I could see to a nonstop would be that connecting passengers would not have to clear customs on their layover in the US. Though you can circumvent that by routing over Canada today where there are multiple one stops available as well.

why would that be an issue? Hawaii is a state of the U.S., so anybody traveling there would have to clear immigration and customs at the first point of arrival in the U.S. If that's HNL, they would clear customs there; if they stop in JFK, ORD, DFW, LAX, etc., they would clear customs there and the remaining flight(s) would be domestic.


You are correct. Hawaii is a US state. However, if you are clearing at a connection point on the mainland, like the ones you mentioned, an incoming European passenger has to clear Customs, pick up their bag, re-check their bag and re-clear security all on a layover which seems like a royal pain in the posterior compared to say getting on a flight from Europe and only having to clear customs, pick up your baggage and start your vacation upon arrival into HNL. Now if you are connecting to a neighbor island, it is more of a wash.

I know personally know 3 people who have missed connections to Hawaii because the whole aforementioned process took longer than their layover. And that is if the person is not stopped at Customs for any reason.

77H
 
Galwayman
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:52 pm

Fares from Europe to Hawaii are just trash, esp from cities like Dublin , on a per mile basis they're ridiculously low ( sometimes with fares lower than SFO > Hawaii )

Plus most Europeans have zero interest in Hawaii , there are lots more interesting places within easier reach of Europe . Zanzibar , Goa , Rio , Cape Town ... even the Canaries are preferred

Hawaii is just not that interesting .
 
nomorerjs
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:13 am

Not a huge market from HNL to Europe. Hawaii is west coast centric and DFW mega-hub connections.

Europeans have the Med., Azores, and Indian Ocean that are much closer and cheaper. Plus, they don’t have to deal with the 1% of American A-hole, know-it-all, tourists.
 
hnl808
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:26 am

Galwayman wrote:
Fares from Europe to Hawaii are just trash, esp from cities like Dublin , on a per mile basis they're ridiculously low ( sometimes with fares lower than SFO > Hawaii )

Plus most Europeans have zero interest in Hawaii , there are lots more interesting places within easier reach of Europe . Zanzibar , Goa , Rio , Cape Town ... even the Canaries are preferred

Hawaii is just not that interesting .


If most Europeans have zero interest in Hawaii, why did Hawaii see 142,648 visitor arrivals combined from the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy and Switzerland in 2016? This does not include the rest of the European countries as well. There were more visitors from Europe then NZ which offers non-stop service to HNL with two different carriers.

Europe is small comparable to US/Canada/Japan/Australia visitor arrivals, but they do contribute a sizable amount of visitors to Hawaii.
 
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BasilFawlty
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:30 am

142.648 of many many millions of Europeans that went to other places is pretty close to 'zero interest' if you ask me.
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mercure1
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:55 am

hnl808 wrote:
If most Europeans have zero interest in Hawaii, why did Hawaii see 142,648 visitor arrivals combined from the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy and Switzerland in 2016? This does not include the rest of the European countries as well. There were more visitors from Europe then NZ which offers non-stop service to HNL with two different carriers.


Lets not forget that majority of those visitors likely did a Hawaii stop as part of a broader visit - be it to California or Western US, or as part of a journey to South Pacific markets.

Hawaii is hardly a market that is on minds or interest among average European consumers. Heck the bulk of European tour operators dont even offer packages that include Hawaii which tells you they don't see much of a market either. I would view Hawaii as more a niche market for Europeans.

Just for scale (per Eurostat) -- EU citizens took 490 million outbound longhaul journeys in 2015.
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:37 am

hnl808 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Fares from Europe to Hawaii are just trash, esp from cities like Dublin , on a per mile basis they're ridiculously low ( sometimes with fares lower than SFO > Hawaii )

Plus most Europeans have zero interest in Hawaii , there are lots more interesting places within easier reach of Europe . Zanzibar , Goa , Rio , Cape Town ... even the Canaries are preferred

Hawaii is just not that interesting .


If most Europeans have zero interest in Hawaii, why did Hawaii see 142,648 visitor arrivals combined from the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy and Switzerland in 2016? This does not include the rest of the European countries as well. There were more visitors from Europe then NZ which offers non-stop service to HNL with two different carriers.

Europe is small comparable to US/Canada/Japan/Australia visitor arrivals, but they do contribute a sizable amount of visitors to Hawaii.


From the Hawaii tourism bureau, July 2017 stats, these are monthly stats:

http://www.hawaiitourismauthority.org/d ... e%20(final)(1).pdf

Europe: Visitor arrivals from the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy and Switzerland
increased in July 2017 (+3.1% to 16,428) versus last year. Through the first seven months,
arrivals have declined (-2.4% to 73,469) compared to last year.

As anyone who has flown to Hawaii will know, you know that everyone fills out the agriculture declaration before arrival. On the back of that form there are several questions from the visitors bureau.

They ask where you are from & what islands you'll be visiting & where you will stay. This part is voluntary & I see about half of people skip the second part, so I'd say it's really hard to be fully accurate, but Hawaii sure does try knowing tourism is their bread & butter.

As was said above, the vast majority of Europeans who visit Hawaii do it in combination with stops elsewhere in the USA, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York are cities I know are popular. But if one is going as far as Hawaii, I'd expect to stop as well.
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:21 am

nomorerjs wrote:
Not a huge market from HNL to Europe. Hawaii is west coast centric and DFW mega-hub connections.

Europeans have the Med., Azores, and Indian Ocean that are much closer and cheaper. Plus, they don’t have to deal with the 1% of American A-hole, know-it-all, tourists.


That last sentence was completely unnecessary and just flame bait. You want to see unruly tourists I suggest you might want to try the flotsam that occupies all of Ryan air flights to holiday destinations in Europe or Asians and Indians pushing and shoving whilst trying to deplane. Take your anti-American nonsense elsewhere.
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zakuivcustom
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:35 am

hnl808 wrote:
Galwayman wrote:
Fares from Europe to Hawaii are just trash, esp from cities like Dublin , on a per mile basis they're ridiculously low ( sometimes with fares lower than SFO > Hawaii )

Plus most Europeans have zero interest in Hawaii , there are lots more interesting places within easier reach of Europe . Zanzibar , Goa , Rio , Cape Town ... even the Canaries are preferred

Hawaii is just not that interesting .


If most Europeans have zero interest in Hawaii, why did Hawaii see 142,648 visitor arrivals combined from the United Kingdom, France, Germany, Italy and Switzerland in 2016? This does not include the rest of the European countries as well. There were more visitors from Europe then NZ which offers non-stop service to HNL with two different carriers.

Europe is small comparable to US/Canada/Japan/Australia visitor arrivals, but they do contribute a sizable amount of visitors to Hawaii.


Umm...there are a grand total of 4.3 million people living in New Zealand. Even Switzerland has double that amount (France is 15x, UK about 16x).

Like I said in last month's HNL thread (although that one was about ME3), yes, the demand is not zero, but it is just not even close to enough for a carrier to start a non-stop flight.
 
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:27 am

Long nonstop services are especially tough for LCC to operate so it would be more likely for traditional carriers to operate the route first. Plus not many LCCs have suitable aircraft with enough range and carry enough payload
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 10:32 am

As many have pointed out, Europeans that want sun, sand and beaches have more options a lot closer. And, those that want to combine that kind of vacation with a visit to the US are more likely to go to Florida, which is a lot easier to reach from Europe. MIA is served by most major European airlines and has direct flights to 20+ European cities.
 
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:00 am

What is probably the most comparable destination to HNL in Europe?
 
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:06 am

LCC to Hawaii? No, Hawaii is an expensive destination compared to nearly every other possible destination, People who fly there won´t fancy a LCC, and people who fancy the LCC won´t be able to pay Hawaii. Apart from that most people I know who have been there have usually done Hawaii in combination with a stay in the continental US. 1 week East Coast - 1 week Hawaii - 1 week West Cost and then back is popular.
 
belfordrocks
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:10 am

As likely as a direct flight between Asia and CUN, or North America and PMI
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fallap
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:14 am

Northwest1988 wrote:
What is probably the most comparable destination to HNL in Europe?


The Danish island of Bornholm! ;) Linked to Copenhagen form the intl. Airport of Rønne, served by DAT ATR 72-200 :D

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Danfearn77
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:50 am

77H wrote:
If you're an Aussie or Kiwi I imagine after your 12th trip to Fiji, Bali, etc, you're ready for some new scenery and a new adventure.

77H


On the subject of Bali (which i love) im surprised there is no seasonal Europe-Bali direct service? Would DY ever be interested? If not even for someone like TUI or MT once or twice a week?
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Drucocu
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:14 pm

seahawk wrote:
LCC to Hawaii? No, Hawaii is an expensive destination compared to nearly every other possible destination, People who fly there won´t fancy a LCC, and people who fancy the LCC won´t be able to pay Hawaii. Apart from that most people I know who have been there have usually done Hawaii in combination with a stay in the continental US. 1 week East Coast - 1 week Hawaii - 1 week West Cost and then back is popular.


If I'd be flying to Hawaii from Europe, hell no I'll be paying €1500 for the cheapest option, which usually is 27+h 2+-stop on DL, usually with some overnighting somewhere in the US. So no, I'd rather selfconnect onto a direct 15-16h flight overflying the contiguous 48 AND save money than have an 8 hour flight, connecting to a 2-5h domestic flight, overnighting somewhere, and then another 5+h flight.
Plus, there would be no worries on catching a connecting flight due to US border control and customs taking forever.

Norwegian is starting EZE around €450 roundtrip, which is only 300nm closer than HNL. Their hard product is the best I've experienced yet, so I wouldn't hesitate to fly them ULH.

I don't see why people flying low cost airlines couldn't afford to go to expensive destinations, or why those destinations should only be flown by expensive full service carriers. The whole point of flying an LCC is saving money that can be spent on the destination. This possible €1000 saving in airfare can easily last me a week or longer in Hawaii, thus making a holiday there possible for me.

A 2-3 weekly LGW-HNL might be able to work in summer. Give it some good marketing about visiting Polynesia cheaply, some tips on budget excursions etcetera, and market the connecting option with Easyjet and I think it could work out way better than you might imagine.
 
Drucocu
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:15 pm

Danfearn77 wrote:
77H wrote:
If you're an Aussie or Kiwi I imagine after your 12th trip to Fiji, Bali, etc, you're ready for some new scenery and a new adventure.

77H


On the subject of Bali (which i love) im surprised there is no seasonal Europe-Bali direct service? Would DY ever be interested? If not even for someone like TUI or MT once or twice a week?


There's KL one stop AMS-(KUL or SIN, not sure)-DPS. I think that's the best you'll get in direct flights EU to DPS.
 
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:42 pm

zakuivcustom wrote:
Like I said in last month's HNL thread (although that one was about ME3), yes, the demand is not zero, but it is just not even close to enough for a carrier to start a non-stop flight.

Actually the current demand is more than enough. Remind me again what exactly is the annual demand between Europe and Nashville, which BA is starting? The O&D numbers between Boston and Japan were 70,000, IIRC when JL started NRT-BOS. The problem is the lack of premium demand and that is not an insignificant problem.
I understand this topic has become a bit too over used as of late, but it would be nice if our European friends would drop their arrogance and inferiority complex every time it comes up, or just stay out of the thread if you're incapable of having an adult discussion.
 
Danfearn77
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:00 pm

Drucocu wrote:
Danfearn77 wrote:
77H wrote:
If you're an Aussie or Kiwi I imagine after your 12th trip to Fiji, Bali, etc, you're ready for some new scenery and a new adventure.

77H


On the subject of Bali (which i love) im surprised there is no seasonal Europe-Bali direct service? Would DY ever be interested? If not even for someone like TUI or MT once or twice a week?


There's KL one stop AMS-(KUL or SIN, not sure)-DPS. I think that's the best you'll get in direct flights EU to DPS.


Your right with the stop in SIN! I've flown the route, and whilst KL were great it sure was a loooong way, especially since I started from LHR. I remember thinking, as my 6ft 4" frame was crammed into the middle seat the whole way, surely someone like DY or one of the UK charters like TUI or MT would give it a shot. Surely there would be demand for the latter two to sell holidays. TUI do Vietnam if I remember, so it's the same sort of thing. Can the 788 of TUI make it nonstop? As a pure guess I'd say yes.
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SurlyBonds
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:19 pm

nomorerjs wrote:
Not a huge market from HNL to Europe. Hawaii is west coast centric and DFW mega-hub connections.

Europeans have the Med., Azores, and Indian Ocean that are much closer and cheaper. Plus, they don’t have to deal with the 1% of American A-hole, know-it-all, tourists.


Setting aside your stereotypes about American tourists for a moment, Europeans seem perfectly content to take holidays in places like Thailand, Cancun, Havana, and -- see the BA new destination thread -- the Seychelles. Granted, Hawaii is slightly further from LHR than these destinations, but they're all long-haul flights that involve jet-lag, and an extra 2-3 hours is unlikely to deter them from visiting HNL if they're already prepared to endure all that. Destinations such as Tahiti and Australia are even further away than Hawaii.
 
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:25 pm

Why would a European visit Hawaii? I mean, yes I am sure it is a nice place and all, but there are a lot of more beautiful islands a lot closer and probably a lot cheaper to be there then Hawaii. So for a LCC to work, the accommodation must be accordingly, so what costumer are you aiming at with such a route?
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:59 pm

airbazar wrote:
Remind me again what exactly is the annual demand between Europe and Nashville, which BA is starting? The O&D numbers between Boston and Japan were 70,000, IIRC when JL started NRT-BOS. The problem is the lack of premium demand and that is not an insignificant problem.


You entirely miss the fact that Europe-Hawaii is very different than LON-BNA or NRT-BOS.

Both BA and JL on their service will not only have a broad revenue mix of client onboard, they also have broad network strengths such as connections, frequent flyer benefits, plus the fact your two sample flights will be sold at both ends of the route.

A Europe-Hawaii route would be virtually all leisure meaning a low revenue mix and nearly all Europe point of sale. Working out the economics of such very long distance service will be quite a challenge.
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hnl808
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:09 pm

seahawk wrote:
LCC to Hawaii? No, Hawaii is an expensive destination compared to nearly every other possible destination, People who fly there won´t fancy a LCC, and people who fancy the LCC won´t be able to pay Hawaii. Apart from that most people I know who have been there have usually done Hawaii in combination with a stay in the continental US. 1 week East Coast - 1 week Hawaii - 1 week West Cost and then back is popular.


I don't agree with that as HNL currently has a few LCC's traveling, with very strong load factors. Jetstar, Air Asia, Jin Air and soon to join Scoot.

There are people that choose to fly on premium carriers, and there are those that are looking to get from point A to point B as cheap as possible.
 
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:10 pm

Northwest1988 wrote:
What is probably the most comparable destination to HNL in Europe?


There is no a shortage of beach markets accessible from Europe, hence the massive European tour industry.

Close by we have entire Mediterranean basin from one end to the other, Canary Islands, North Africa/Egypt.
Bit further have markets like UAE, deeper in Africa, Indian Ocean.
Going longer haul we have popular Caribbean islands, Florida, South Africa, Southeast Asia, etc.

Also do not underestimate the historic colonial links to many beach markets which naturally helps drive large volumes of traffic to/from Europe.
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32andBelow
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:45 pm

mercure1 wrote:
Northwest1988 wrote:
What is probably the most comparable destination to HNL in Europe?


There is no a shortage of beach markets accessible from Europe, hence the massive European tour industry.

Close by we have entire Mediterranean basin from one end to the other, Canary Islands, North Africa/Egypt.
Bit further have markets like UAE, deeper in Africa, Indian Ocean.
Going longer haul we have popular Caribbean islands, Florida, South Africa, Southeast Asia, etc.

Also do not underestimate the historic colonial links to many beach markets which naturally helps drive large volumes of traffic to/from Europe.

Now I've heard it all. Comparing Hawaii to freaking UAE. One is beautiful and has volcanoes and other natural things to see. The other is a hell hole that treats women as second class and imports slave labor.
 
superjeff
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:02 pm

Northwest1988 wrote:
What is probably the most comparable destination to HNL in Europe?



My thought would be the Canary Islands (i.e, Teneriffe) or Madeira. The significant Portuguese population was enticed to go for jobs in the sugar industry back in the late 1800's and early 1900's because the climate is similar, and the islands' physical appearance is also somewhat similar.
 
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:15 pm

Danfearn77 wrote:
77H wrote:
If you're an Aussie or Kiwi I imagine after your 12th trip to Fiji, Bali, etc, you're ready for some new scenery and a new adventure.

77H


On the subject of Bali (which i love) im surprised there is no seasonal Europe-Bali direct service? Would DY ever be interested? If not even for someone like TUI or MT once or twice a week?

I think LO already fly WAW-DPS bi-weekly, though not sure if it was seasonal or a regular one. DPS also used to recieved a lot (hehehe, see what I did there?) of Russian charter airlines like UN and Nordwind.
Like I said on the other thread, I've seen many Scandinavian tourist in Bali so I was surprised that DPS hasn't been on DY radar yet. I've just moved to Northern Sweden and there's a surprising number of Northern Swedes that have been to Bali, with many more has put it on their next itinerary.
 
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seahawk
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:41 pm

hnl808 wrote:
seahawk wrote:
LCC to Hawaii? No, Hawaii is an expensive destination compared to nearly every other possible destination, People who fly there won´t fancy a LCC, and people who fancy the LCC won´t be able to pay Hawaii. Apart from that most people I know who have been there have usually done Hawaii in combination with a stay in the continental US. 1 week East Coast - 1 week Hawaii - 1 week West Cost and then back is popular.


I don't agree with that as HNL currently has a few LCC's traveling, with very strong load factors. Jetstar, Air Asia, Jin Air and soon to join Scoot.

There are people that choose to fly on premium carriers, and there are those that are looking to get from point A to point B as cheap as possible.


Obviously I was talking about a connection from Europe. And there the simple truth is that Hawaii is a very expensive destination. Even if the flight becomes cheaper it is still hugely expensive and will always remain one of the most expensive "island destination" from Europe. Even with a cheaper flight., the costs for the resort and general expenses would still be around the highest for any similar destination popular in Europe. Imho it would still be a destination for people that have money for an expensive holiday and definitely want to go to Hawaii, but those people go there already. Cheaper flights will hardly increase the demand.
 
ushermittwoch
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:37 pm

Hawaii is nice. No doubt. But it's also FAR away from Europe. People here love to travel. But almost every other tropical paradise is just a (shorter) non-stop flight away.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
GalaxyFlyer
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:03 am

If one can go to the Canaries, the Balerics, or the Med in a few, why on a Earth would they fly for 14 hours to Hawaii? Heck, Havana or Miami are better than Waikiki.

Plus, I’d bet it is not possible on many days due to ETP considerations. The GC route, LHR-HNL, passes just east of Anchorage at ~6500nm, 15+50 at 460 knots average ground speed. That’s about a -35 knot wind. It’s 2400nm from HNL-ANC, so figure a 3+20 flight time at 10,000’ depressurization altitude (360 knot GS) from the ETP to either HNL or ANC. YVR is possible but further distance. Remember, west coast to Hawaii is the longest commonly used route without a divert.

GF
 
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DIRECTFLT
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Re: Seasonal LCC Flights Between Europe and Hawaii?

Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:22 am

Could a flight originating in Europe schedule a technical stop on the way to HNL to refuel, without the need of the passengers going through customs at that stop?

Most of the Europeans I have come across in Hawaii, were not in Waikiki. Some on the Oahu North Shore, and others on the Big Island.

I think it's in poor taste to crap on a thread, by making a crass statement saying the destination is not interesting. :butthead:

There's other Sub-Forums where you can herald your opinion that "xxxxxx Sucks" as a destination.
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