WPvsMW
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Hawaiian airports and aviation - 2017

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:02 am

Time for HNL, OGG, KOA, ITO, LIH, and other airports in Hawaii, to have a dedicated thread, starting with a recent update from HI DOTrans ADiv.

http://patahawaii.com/wrap-up-airports- ... entations/
Last edited by SQ22 on Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Title updated
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:47 am

All 3 very enjoyable presentations - thank you for sharing. Working at HNL I'm constantly appalled at the poor aesthetics of the airport - lack of signage and directions, dark lobbies, dirty bathrooms, lack of charging stations and outlets, etc. I think the HNL management does a piss-poor job of upkeep and planning.

What I would love to see in the future is the third floor holding rooms next to the immigration corridor on the Ewa side utilized as gate spaces, restaurants or shops (great views and no crowding), and utilize the roof of the central terminal for restaurants or airline lounges. Actually, airline lounges would do good to move to the rooftop a la Delta sky terraces.

On the flip side, I love the OGG airport - that's a renovation that was very, very well done - clean, aesthetically pleasing, and convenient.
 
kunta67
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:54 am

The last time I came home, the HAL Hangar was still fenced off. When is the contractor dispute over the HAL hangar going to be resolved? Also when are they going to move Island Air so they can do the mauka concourse
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:00 am

kunta67 wrote:
The last time I came home, the HAL Hangar was still fenced off. When is the contractor dispute over the HAL hangar going to be resolved? Also when are they going to move Island Air so they can do the mauka concourse


My understanding about the HA hangar was that the DOT dropped the ball and HA took over the construction so it was their thing and I believe it's finished already.

As for WP moving, who knows? I interviewed with them in March and was told they would be moving to lobby 3 in the fall but I haven't heard anything new from them and Lord knows HA needs all the space they can get - especially during the midday rush. I can only guess HA is holding up the move but it could also be the normal incompetence of the airport management - I don't have bone to pick with them but they have to be called out on things or they'll never improve.
 
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RWA380
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 3:04 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Time for HNL, OGG, KOA, ITO, LIH, and other airports in Hawaii, to have a dedicated thread, starting with a recent update from HI DOTrans ADiv.

http://patahawaii.com/wrap-up-airports- ... entations/


There used to be a HNL spotters thread that continued for years, years ago. I think it was a core group of greatly enthusiastic members who got a lot of us engaged in their thread, it was a fun thread to follow, good luck here. I think Hawaii deserves it's own thread & not to be lumped into a greater Pacific thread. I've flown in & out of 9 airports in Hawaii & am looking to add a couple more next time we go.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
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WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 4:07 am

Some highlights from the PATA meeting that aren't in the presentations, but from the Q&A that followed:
1) When asked if a business model of an LCC aft cabin with a premium forward cabin was viable, the AS presenter responded... that is the AS business model.
2) The WP presenter said that WP's HNL/ITO service would start before year end. See also http://hawaiitribune-herald.com/news/lo ... lo-flights
3) The presenter from HIDOTrans ADiv talked about the pros and cons of an Airport Authority, the privatization of at least HNL, with an objective of ... how can I diplomatically put this ... better project management, responsive to current needs, future-oriented, on time, on budget.

A question posed to the ADiv presenter: Does HNL need new trim curbside on level 2... or a people mover to the DH and Ewa Courses? The answer is there are no plans to replace the Wiki-Buses, or even add airconditioning to the buses, but the trim should be done by the end of September. Depressing.

A gubernatorial candidate could probably win on a platform of privatizing Hawaii's airport management. Whether the successful candidate, as governor, would actually do that, of course, is unpredictable. ;)
 
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VirginFlyer
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:14 pm

RWA380 wrote:
WPvsMW wrote:
Time for HNL, OGG, KOA, ITO, LIH, and other airports in Hawaii, to have a dedicated thread, starting with a recent update from HI DOTrans ADiv.

http://patahawaii.com/wrap-up-airports- ... entations/


There used to be a HNL spotters thread that continued for years, years ago. I think it was a core group of greatly enthusiastic members who got a lot of us engaged in their thread, it was a fun thread to follow, good luck here. I think Hawaii deserves it's own thread & not to be lumped into a greater Pacific thread. I've flown in & out of 9 airports in Hawaii & am looking to add a couple more next time we go.

I agree, this is a great idea to have a thread about aviation in, to, and from Hawaii. I recommend the wording of the title be changed from "airports" to "aviation" to include that, unless you feel it is better for this thread just to focus on the airports themselves?

V/F
It is not for him to pride himself who loveth his own country, but rather for him who loveth the whole world. The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens. —Bahá'u'lláh
 
nine4nine
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:27 pm

I fly to HNL about 2-3 times annually. That airport is a complete dump. Terrible layout, the HA terminals are dark and outdated and the concessions are awful. Upon arrival you usually have to take the connector bus to baggage claim and those typically do not have operating air conditioning. Seems the airport is still stuck in the Cold War era. At least the ticketing/check-in areas have been nicely done. The rest of the place I can't speak for. I'd put it on par with the current facilities at TIJ
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GSPSPOT
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:11 pm

We've flown to/from HNL several times over the years. We LOVE the open-air concept (great for av-geek photography), the meditation garden, shopping areas, etc. Regarding "outdated" concourse, we feel they're like a time capsule. We love them!
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JHwk
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Thu Sep 21, 2017 11:35 pm

My only real beef with HNL terminal is the poor state of affairs in the bathrooms. The food at the PGA Tour restaurant is good enough that we often stop there when flying in. It needs work, but the bathrooms are truly an embarrassment.
 
DaveFly
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:12 am

I’ve flown around the Hawaiian islands quite a bit in the last four years. I enjoy the outer island airports — yes, they do seem like a relic from a bygone era — but I enjoy that. HNL, on the other hand, I’ve always enjoyed in good weather. The smell of the tropical breezes in the open concourses. But the last time I was there, it was pouring. And walking around the terminal, I realized how dark, musty, and dank it is. There are few decent food choices. And the staff were particularly unhelpful — my flight was boarding for a trip to JFK, but the aircraft was inbound from Auckland. I understand the reason for disallowing a mix of the passengers, but the staff was rude and offered no alternatives for sitting during the long wait. Nonetheless, I still love visiting Hawaii!
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WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaii Airports Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:14 am

I've requested a mod to change the thread title to
Hawaii Airports and Aviation

HNL's mix of open air and air-conditioned concourses is truly unique, and should be kept. However, for pax with even minor mobility issues... HNL airside ranges from purgatory to hell. No e-carts, just wheelchairs. With A380s, and I think there will be more than NH's Honus, the long walks, Wiki-Buses, and gate holds to manage Immigration queues, will discourage travel to HNL (and probably encourage travel to the Neighbor Islands).
 
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jsnww81
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:26 pm

I posted this a few weeks back in another thread, but will pop in here too. As much as I love the retro feel of Hawaii's airports (even OGG and LIH, which I still think of as "new" because I can remember when they were built) it's pretty astonishing how little attention the state has given them over the past two decades.
- HNL: where to even begin? I love the flashback feel and the fact that I can recognize where episodes of the original "Hawaii Five-O" were filmed, but the place needs so much work it's not even funny. We've been seeing renderings of the Mauka Concourse for a solid decade now, and my mom remembers riding the Wiki-Wiki buses as a teenager, when they were brand new
- ITO: basically hasn't changed since 1976 and still has lots of big empty space left over from the days of United and Continental DC10s
- KOA: they've been talking about expanding the terminal for as long as I can remember. It's a charming facility, but the holdrooms and open areas get crowded, and there are still no jetways (as an avgeek that's nice, but it's 2017 and KOA is a major airport with international flights)
- OGG: the last time I was there I couldn't believe how tired it looked. The architecture was dated when it opened, and it hasn't really aged well. There are some breezy sections, but there's also a lot of brutalist concrete design that doesn't really say "Hawaii." The new access road and CONRAC are a nice start, but more is needed... and let's not get started on the runway extension
- LIH: was way ahead of its time when it was built (and probably way too big) but today it's not big enough. The ticket lobby and security checkpoint are nuts when all the redeye flights are checking in. About the only things that have changed in 30 years of operation are a Starbucks in the atrium and painting the roof green
 
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usxguy
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:16 pm

Commuter terminal won't be demolished until DOT or HA caves. HA refuses to give up gate space to accommodate WP & MW, which is odd, since HA is the sole benefactor of the commuter terminal closing.

Someone is going to blink and it won't be pretty. Maybe in 20 years we'll have the new concourse done. Actually, I wonder what will be done first: mauka concourse or light rail? :P :P :P
xx
 
DeSpringbokke
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:30 pm

Does LIH still have the shortest runway of the five major airports in Hawai'i? There was a plan to extend it but I'm unaware if it has been completed. Was at a rather short 6,500 feet, that's even shorter than DCA. I know OGG's runway is only 6,995 feet and attempts to lengthen it have all been rejected by NIMBYs.
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:57 pm

jsnww81 wrote:
I posted this a few weeks back in another thread, but will pop in here too. As much as I love the retro feel of Hawaii's airports (even OGG and LIH, which I still think of as "new" because I can remember when they were built) it's pretty astonishing how little attention the state has given them over the past two decades.
- HNL: where to even begin? I love the flashback feel and the fact that I can recognize where episodes of the original "Hawaii Five-O" were filmed, but the place needs so much work it's not even funny. We've been seeing renderings of the Mauka Concourse for a solid decade now, and my mom remembers riding the Wiki-Wiki buses as a teenager, when they were brand new
- ITO: basically hasn't changed since 1976 and still has lots of big empty space left over from the days of United and Continental DC10s
- KOA: they've been talking about expanding the terminal for as long as I can remember. It's a charming facility, but the holdrooms and open areas get crowded, and there are still no jetways (as an avgeek that's nice, but it's 2017 and KOA is a major airport with international flights)
- OGG: the last time I was there I couldn't believe how tired it looked. The architecture was dated when it opened, and it hasn't really aged well. There are some breezy sections, but there's also a lot of brutalist concrete design that doesn't really say "Hawaii." The new access road and CONRAC are a nice start, but more is needed... and let's not get started on the runway extension
- LIH: was way ahead of its time when it was built (and probably way too big) but today it's not big enough. The ticket lobby and security checkpoint are nuts when all the redeye flights are checking in. About the only things that have changed in 30 years of operation are a Starbucks in the atrium and painting the roof green


I may be biased because OGG was a hometown airport growing up but I actually quite like the feel of the airport. Was just there a few weeks ago and they have made a lot of improvements to the terminal area with more improvements forthcoming. The airside central plaza is being renovated and the "food court" has a decent selection of dining options considering the O&D nature of the airport. The bathrooms in the gate 19-39 hold rooms are great, the best of any Hawaii airport and the new consolidated rental car facility will improve things greatly. The only thing I would agree on is there is a lot of concrete. Although, that seems to have been the style for some time in Hawaii (see Hawaii State Capitol). The only thing I would like to see improvement on in OGG is the TSA lines. The longest duration of time I've ever spent in a TSA line was at OGG, which was over an hour.

77H
 
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maortega15
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:06 pm

Are there any recent instances where commercial flights have landed on the reef runway at HNL? I know it's used for departures (took off on a JL 767 to NRT a few years ago), but don't recall any landings.
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:18 pm

DeSpringbokke wrote:
Does LIH still have the shortest runway of the five major airports in Hawai'i? There was a plan to extend it but I'm unaware if it has been completed. Was at a rather short 6,500 feet, that's even shorter than DCA. I know OGG's runway is only 6,995 feet and attempts to lengthen it have all been rejected by NIMBYs.


Both of LIH's runways are still at 6500 ft.

While I understand the resistance from residents in not wanting Maui to become another Oahu I think the county (and its residents) are shooting themselves in the foot purposefully trying to hamper tourism growth. Though I am not quite sure expanding the runway would bring in considerably more service.

Beyond not having a dedicated FIS, which could be implemented rather easily if demand warranted it, I'm not entirely sure whats stopping more international carriers from operating into OGG today. UA currently flies OGG-ORD nonstop with a HD 772 which is a distance of 3636.6 nmi. OGG-NRT is 3403.7 nmi. It is understood that OGG-ORD isn't battling prevailing headwinds like OGG-Asia but they could easily get around that hurdle by offering a triangle flight Asia-OGG-KOA-Asia. UA and NW both used to operate triangle routes ORD-OGG-KOA-ORD and SEA-OGG-KOA-SEA respectively and JL used to operate NRT-HNL-KOA-NRT. Their new flight is nonstop.

Having spent a considerable amount of my life living on or visiting Maui, it doesn't seem that the island is as popular with Asia origin tourists as HNL or KOA. That said, perhaps if there was a nonstop from somewhere like NRT it would spur demand. More than that, since my adolescence, OGG has seen considerable downgauges or service cancellations. OGG used to get nonstop service from ATL (DL), IAH (CO) and even ORD (AA). OGG used to get all WB service from UA to DEN, ORD, LAX and SFO. SFO and LAX are almost all 737's, DEN is a 752 and ORD is Saturday only.

77H
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:27 pm

maortega15 wrote:
Are there any recent instances where commercial flights have landed on the reef runway at HNL? I know it's used for departures (took off on a JL 767 to NRT a few years ago), but don't recall any landings.


Really the only time you'll see aircraft landing on the reef runway (26R) are when the winds are blowing from the West/Southwest (Kona Winds) as opposed to the tradewinds. It is actually pretty rare but offers great views of Diamond Head and Waikiki on approach if you're lucky enough to arrive when Kona Wind Ops are in effect. I've never seen an aircraft land from the West on the Reef Runway (8R). Even if 8L is closed, aircraft will usually land on the 4's.

77H
 
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:45 pm

77H wrote:
the reef runway (26R)


26L
FLYi
 
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jsnww81
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:47 pm

77H wrote:

Having spent a considerable amount of my life living on or visiting Maui, it doesn't seem that the island is as popular with Asia origin tourists as HNL or KOA. That said, perhaps if there was a nonstop from somewhere like NRT it would spur demand. More than that, since my adolescence, OGG has seen considerable downgauges or service cancellations. OGG used to get nonstop service from ATL (DL), IAH (CO) and even ORD (AA). OGG used to get all WB service from UA to DEN, ORD, LAX and SFO. SFO and LAX are almost all 737's, DEN is a 752 and ORD is Saturday only.

77H


Who else remembers the JAL ticket counter in the new OGG terminal when it opened? At that time they were fairly certain the runway extension was going to go ahead, and so JAL moved in for ticket sales only. The state had just re-routed the road at the end of runway 2 to make room for it - the old road passed about ten feet from the end of the runway (and had lots of foreboding DANGER JET BLAST signs). JAL even showed OGG on its route maps for a bit in 1991-92, as a dashed line from Honolulu, although service never started.

Not sure how they'd add an FIS to Kahului - would probably require demolishing the Hawaiian air cargo building, building an international arrivals hall, and connecting it to the northernmost gate holdroom. Or they could go the KOA route and just put up an inflatable dome. :)

Agree with your point on equipment downgauges - at least frequency is way up to compensate for it. I remember spotting at OGG in the late 1990s and it was really exciting when you'd see one of United's battleship-gray DC10s come in on its downwind leg. There were only maybe 5-6 nonstops to the mainland back then (Delta's lone L1011 to LAX and United flights to SFO/LAX; American's DC10s always called at Honolulu first, and Delta had an L1011 that tagged to HNL as well.) It was very exciting when TWA started the nonstop STL-OGG flight in the late 90s - nobody had flown to OGG from that far before. Around the same time, American finally went nonstop to LAX and SJC with 757s, America West started service from Phoenix, and ATA came in as well.

Prior to that, the ocean end of the OGG terminal could get very quiet beyond Gate 23. Often the lights in the last holdroom weren't even turned on, and the moving walkways were usually off too.
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:30 am

flyPIT wrote:
77H wrote:
the reef runway (26R)


26L


Thanks for spotting the mistake.

77H
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:03 am

maortega15 wrote:
Are there any recent instances where commercial flights have landed on the reef runway at HNL? I know it's used for departures (took off on a JL 767 to NRT a few years ago), but don't recall any landings.


HNL RW 26L had landing ops last week, during Kona winds.
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 4:53 am

77H wrote:
maortega15 wrote:
Are there any recent instances where commercial flights have landed on the reef runway at HNL? I know it's used for departures (took off on a JL 767 to NRT a few years ago), but don't recall any landings.


Really the only time you'll see aircraft landing on the reef runway (26R) are when the winds are blowing from the West/Southwest (Kona Winds) as opposed to the tradewinds. It is actually pretty rare but offers great views of Diamond Head and Waikiki on approach if you're lucky enough to arrive when Kona Wind Ops are in effect. I've never seen an aircraft land from the West on the Reef Runway (8R). Even if 8L is closed, aircraft will usually land on the 4's.

77H


I've seen landings on 8R twice when I was at KE - the first was earlier this year when the 748i landed out there for whatever reason. The second was back in July I think when an A330 had engine failure and ended up sitting on a taxiway off 8R for 3 hours before it could be towed in. Granted I'm lending nothing to the conversation lol but just thought I'd share. I'd be curious to know under what conditions 8R would be used for landing - more arrivals than normal in a particular time frame? The one thing about 8R is that it takes forever to taxi to the terminal because you have to cross 4L/R and 8L - all of which are active and busy.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:28 am

Who's doing the early touchdowns on HNL RW 8L?
https://goo.gl/maps/3F4sPs4aXYS2
That's alot of rubber before the aiming point, significant rubber on the threshold, even rubber on the first threshold stripe.
Some HA pilots land early to get an "early exit" back to the interisland terminal.. but that much rubber pre-aiming point means WBs at play.

Compare 26R https://goo.gl/maps/epye5Ps4NgB2
and 4R https://goo.gl/maps/3BGRu3vSKPJ2

And, for a bit of humor, proof of candor in the military: https://goo.gl/maps/XToot6TL2Uw
 
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LamboAston
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:55 am

Just noticed that at HNL, the Kalitta 742 is at the cargo terminal (now retired), and the tail boom of a helicopter on the taxiway south of 26R exactly south of the 22L intersection on google maps
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azjubilee
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:03 am

usxguy wrote:
Commuter terminal won't be demolished until DOT or HA caves. HA refuses to give up gate space to accommodate WP & MW, which is odd, since HA is the sole benefactor of the commuter terminal closing.

Someone is going to blink and it won't be pretty. Maybe in 20 years we'll have the new concourse done. Actually, I wonder what will be done first: mauka concourse or light rail? :P :P :P


Nobody has to cave. Construction starts Oct 1st for the new commuter terminal which will be adjacent to gate 6.
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:24 am

azjubilee wrote:
usxguy wrote:
Commuter terminal won't be demolished until DOT or HA caves. HA refuses to give up gate space to accommodate WP & MW, which is odd, since HA is the sole benefactor of the commuter terminal closing.

Someone is going to blink and it won't be pretty. Maybe in 20 years we'll have the new concourse done. Actually, I wonder what will be done first: mauka concourse or light rail? :P :P :P


Nobody has to cave. Construction starts Oct 1st for the new commuter terminal which will be adjacent to gate 6.


That's news to me - where did you hear that? The commuter terminal there was cancelled a year or more ago in favor of moving WP into lobby 3. If they build adjacent to gate 6 they're going to have to create new hardstands somewhere because all the hardstands are heavily used. I work on the north ramp almost daily and there is no movement or progress whatsoever to suggest a large scale construction project is starting anytime soon.
 
T prop
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:53 am

See that Virgin flew 'Neo Kid on the Block' to HNL today..
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:58 am

LamboAston wrote:
Just noticed that at HNL, the Kalitta 742 is at the cargo terminal (now retired), and the tail boom of a helicopter on the taxiway south of 26R exactly south of the 22L intersection on google maps


Yes.. an old pix. Shows go! a/c at the commuter terminal.
https://goo.gl/maps/5SCSjFssNuR2
 
kunta67
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:12 am

Are they just building ground loading gates next to gate 6? I'm surprised they just don't move Island Air to Lobby 8
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:28 am

Re: the 01 Oct. 2017 start date (link?) ... how did ADiv resolve the expense issue with MW and WP?
See https://www.pressreader.com/usa/honolul ... 2161161266
 
ConcordeAE
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 11:24 am

Landed on 26L last March while sitting on the right hand side of a Hawaiian A330 from SFO, great views and purely by luck as I normally sit on the left hand side. That was then followed by a 26R departure on a HA 717 to Hilo. First time in over 15 trips to HNL that i've ever been on the 26's.
 
obelau24
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:06 pm

WPvsMW wrote:
Re: the 01 Oct. 2017 start date (link?) ... how did ADiv resolve the expense issue with MW and WP?
See https://www.pressreader.com/usa/honolul ... 2161161266


Great article, thank you for sharing. Another option instead of building past gate 6 would be to put the 2 carriers in lobby 6 when Allegiant quits next month and then shuttle passengers via Wiki Wiki either from gate 6 or even from the garden - there are locked gates in the garden near gates 14 and 23 that if manned could be bus gates. Then bus to the north hardstands or even south ramp.

Actually, easier than that would be to get a couple of containers and convert them into temporary holding rooms below gate 6. There's space there for a free parking lot for the inconvenience - or valet parking to the main structure + Wiki Wiki service to all terminals - and planes can park on hardstands 4 and 5.

Honestly there is no space at interisland - it's crowded enough as it is. Multiple times a day the TSA line snakes out to the sidewalk and that's just not fair to passengers and employees alike. It doesn't help that HA agents have atrocious customer service.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:19 pm

ConcordeAE wrote:
Landed on 26L last March while sitting on the right hand side of a Hawaiian A330 from SFO, great views and purely by luck as I normally sit on the left hand side. That was then followed by a 26R departure on a HA 717 to Hilo. First time in over 15 trips to HNL that i've ever been on the 26's.


Mahalo for making your first post in this thread after joining 7 years ago.
 
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11725Flyer
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:31 pm

77H wrote:

Having spent a considerable amount of my life living on or visiting Maui, it doesn't seem that the island is as popular with Asia origin tourists as HNL or KOA. That said, perhaps if there was a nonstop from somewhere like NRT it would spur demand. More than that, since my adolescence, OGG has seen considerable downgauges or service cancellations. OGG used to get nonstop service from ATL (DL), IAH (CO) and even ORD (AA). OGG used to get all WB service from UA to DEN, ORD, LAX and SFO. SFO and LAX are almost all 737's, DEN is a 752 and ORD is Saturday only.

77H


DL also used to fly SLC-OGG.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:27 pm

77H wrote:
Having spent a considerable amount of my life living on or visiting Maui, it doesn't seem that the island is as popular with Asia origin tourists as HNL or KOA. That said, perhaps if there was a nonstop from somewhere like NRT it would spur demand. 77H


OGG is a POE and has CBP Customs (!)
https://www.cbp.gov/contact/ports/kahului
but no Immigration. Pre-clearance in JP will probably happen before CPB Imm. at OGG.

US CBP has Pre-clearance at YVR and YYC to OGG.

When CPB Immigration eventually opens at OGG, inbound to OGG from Asia will have hockey stick growth.
 
ha763
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:06 am

WPvsMW wrote:
Who's doing the early touchdowns on HNL RW 8L?
https://goo.gl/maps/3F4sPs4aXYS2
That's alot of rubber before the aiming point, significant rubber on the threshold, even rubber on the first threshold stripe.
Some HA pilots land early to get an "early exit" back to the interisland terminal.. but that much rubber pre-aiming point means WBs at play.

Compare 26R https://goo.gl/maps/epye5Ps4NgB2
and 4R https://goo.gl/maps/3BGRu3vSKPJ2

And, for a bit of humor, proof of candor in the military: https://goo.gl/maps/XToot6TL2Uw


The majority of the rubber is still within the touchdown zone, which starts at the pair of 3 stripes after the runway number. No one is landing on the threshold. All that rubber is from tires scrubbing while turning to line up on the runway. There are some airline pilots that occasionally land before the touchdown zone, but I'd say a lot of it from the fighter jets. Take a look at the runways at MCB Kaneohe or Miramar. You will see that it is similar to HNL's 8L. Almost all pilots (LAHSO or not) are aiming to exit the runway where taxiways D/S/Y intersect 8L.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:31 am

I agree about the "majority of the rubber"; the curved stripes are, of course, from line up for TO ... but the parallel rubber stripes Ewa side of the first touchdown "triples"... that's what prompted my curiosity.
 
rbavfan
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:15 pm

77H wrote:
DeSpringbokke wrote:
Does LIH still have the shortest runway of the five major airports in Hawai'i? There was a plan to extend it but I'm unaware if it has been completed. Was at a rather short 6,500 feet, that's even shorter than DCA. I know OGG's runway is only 6,995 feet and attempts to lengthen it have all been rejected by NIMBYs.


Both of LIH's runways are still at 6500 ft.

While I understand the resistance from residents in not wanting Maui to become another Oahu I think the county (and its residents) are shooting themselves in the foot purposefully trying to hamper tourism growth. Though I am not quite sure expanding the runway would bring in considerably more service.

Beyond not having a dedicated FIS, which could be implemented rather easily if demand warranted it, I'm not entirely sure whats stopping more international carriers from operating into OGG today. UA currently flies OGG-ORD nonstop with a HD 772 which is a distance of 3636.6 nmi. OGG-NRT is 3403.7 nmi. It is understood that OGG-ORD isn't battling prevailing headwinds like OGG-Asia but they could easily get around that hurdle by offering a triangle flight Asia-OGG-KOA-Asia. UA and NW both used to operate triangle routes ORD-OGG-KOA-ORD and SEA-OGG-KOA-SEA respectively and JL used to operate NRT-HNL-KOA-NRT. Their new flight is nonstop.

Having spent a considerable amount of my life living on or visiting Maui, it doesn't seem that the island is as popular with Asia origin tourists as HNL or KOA. That said, perhaps if there was a nonstop from somewhere like NRT it would spur demand. More than that, since my adolescence, OGG has seen considerable downgauges or service cancellations. OGG used to get nonstop service from ATL (DL), IAH (CO) and even ORD (AA). OGG used to get all WB service from UA to DEN, ORD, LAX and SFO. SFO and LAX are almost all 737's, DEN is a 752 and ORD is Saturday only.

77H



Maui is not as popular with Asian tourist because they have no FIS. To get there they have to fly into HNL or KOA & transfer to an inter island flight. Thus the reason HNL & KOA are so popular with them. 1 flight to FIS to hotel.
 
BeachBoy
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:58 am

Overall thoughts of airports in Hawaii.
1. All are out of date and have not aged well.
2. They all need free wifi ASAP!
3. HMS Host does a terrible job w/ selecting concessions. The restaurant selection should at least include name brand local establishments like Zippys and TS Restaurant outlets like Dukes and some stores like a local surf company.
4. Appreciate the effort to maintain the open feel to airports.
5. Whoever chooses the paint schemes does not do a very good job. The green roofs at OGG, LIH, and ITO does not make the airports look modern and stylish. I don't know why they didn't stick w/ dark brown and grays.

My thoughts on each individual airport:
HNL
The remodeled check in areas are really nice (United, Delta, American). Each concourse (sans the Interisland terminal) needs to be torn down and rebuilt. I recently arrived at gate 11 from TPE and the process of boarding the Wiki Wiki shuttle to get to immigration was just awful. They don't even need a tram system, just an AC enclosed walkway w/ reliable moving walkways.

OGG
Probably the most up-to-date airport in the state, but that's not saying much. They are currently remodeling the central building including reflooring it and adding more shops and restaurants. I think it's sad how OGG has no Hawaiian character and the carpet choices in the hold rooms are so tacky. As an earlier poster stated, once NRT gets pre-clearance and the runway is lengthened to 8530' OGG will be full of Tokyo-originating flights eclipsing KOA (similar to how KOA eclipsed ITO after deregulation).

LIH
The interior of the terminal needs to be updated and expanded and the runway slightly extended. I read they are gonna expand the holdrooms by enclosing the walkways. Also needs to increase the shopping and dining options.

ITO
Serves its purpose well. Does not need any improvement.

KOA
Most "Hawaiian" airport. It's a complete mess right now w/ the construction. However, the drawings for the improvements aren't very encouraging but hopefully it will at least be updated and brought into the 2010s. As I stated earlier, once NRT gets pre-clearance most Tokyo flights will shift to OGG.
 
77H
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:41 am

T prop wrote:
See that Virgin flew 'Neo Kid on the Block' to HNL today..


Was here today too 10/3. Parked on the North Hardstands. Seemed to be doing an engine run up at one point.

77H
 
QANTAS747-438
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 04, 2017 9:06 am

When does HA N361HA get put into service? I saw it was flown to PAE on September 29.
My posts/replies are strictly my opinion and not that of any company, organization, or Southwest Airlines.
 
planemanofnz
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:24 am

Hello all,

Does anyone know how HA's flights to PPG and PPT are going?

It fascinates me how HA has managed to sustain these flights for so long, at such a low frequency - are they subsidised?

Cheers,

C.
 
WPvsMW
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Wed Oct 04, 2017 2:29 pm

No subsidies on the HNL or PPG ends, and I doubt that the French govt is going to subsidize a US carrier at PPT.
 
azjubilee
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:48 pm

QANTAS747-438 wrote:
When does HA N361HA get put into service? I saw it was flown to PAE on September 29.


It's having its lie flat seats installed, which usually takes 2 weeks. It will probably enter service mid October and if it's like all the other ones, probably SEA-HNL.
 
SkyVoice
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:57 am

A question . . . was there, at one time, commercial air service at Princeville Airport (HPV)? I realize that the airport's runway is only 3,560' (1,085 meters) long, plus there is (or was) helicopter service available, but did any airline ever connect HPV with HNL or any other airport in the islands? Thank you in advance for your answers, I have enjoyed reading this thread a great deal!
"Your talents may take you where your character can not keep you." - Terry Nelson
 
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:35 am

SkyVoice wrote:
A question . . . was there, at one time, commercial air service at Princeville Airport (HPV)? I realize that the airport's runway is only 3,560' (1,085 meters) long, plus there is (or was) helicopter service available, but did any airline ever connect HPV with HNL or any other airport in the islands? Thank you in advance for your answers, I have enjoyed reading this thread a great deal!


Yes there was. Princeville Airways was the airline that served that airport. The airport today is still there. Princeville Airlines was bought up by Aloha Airlines in 1985 or so, and changed the name of the airline to "Aloha Island Air". They also served Kaanapali and the old airport there until it got shut down and air ops for that part of Maui transferred to JHM, Kapalua West Maui.
 
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KanaHawaii
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:43 am

Adding in a new sub-subject to this thread is the issue of Southwest Airlines coming into the Hawaii market. I think this is a massive game changer that the established airlines so far (HA and UA specifically) have tried to stave of by increasing the amount of service to key airports in LIH, HNL and OGG. As mentioned in other posts regarding Southwest coming to Hawaii by me, the issue for the airline to come into the market has a lot to do with whether there is sufficient space at any of the airports for SWA to come in at the ops level that they typically enter a new market at . That would mean multiple-day, frequent flights to the airports with quick turn around with their,equipment and staff at the ready at the gate. With the airports having gates that are generally assigned, meaning that no one airline (outside of Hawaiian at the Inter Island Terminal) has rights to any one gate at any of the airports, one wonders if SWA is waiting for the Mauka extension to go in before entering the HNL market.

On another thought about SWA coming to Hawaii, one could think that the airline would initially enter into the most accessible airport in the state at this time - Hilo. They could enter the market, pretty much monopolizing the space currently not used by anyone with their equipment and ops. Starting ops like that would be the equivalent of Krispy Kreme on Maui. They avoided the headache of opening their first (and only) donut shop on Oahu and instead opened theirs up on Maui.

Could be said that there would be a lot of connecting service established quickly into Hilo if SWA were to start ops there. Could also be that Island Air could be first in line with some sort of "arrangement" with SWA to feed their passengers from HNL there.

I know, out of the box thoughts on what could happen in the future - a prelude to an if.
 
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qf789
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Re: Hawaiian Aviation Thread

Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:16 am

Heads up to HNL spotters for 17th October

Qantas will take delivery of their first 789 VH-ZNA on the 17th which is due to depart PAE around 12pm and get to HNL just after 2pm. The aircraft will then depart HNL at 2330 on the 18th for SYD. Flight number will be QF7879
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